QueenZone discussion #981128

<b><font color="blue">Mr. Farenheit wrote: I think i'll have to add you to MSN to talk about bootlegs xD.

Liar_1980 wrote: Can you post this as torrent,please?Thank you!

av1dkson wrote: Thanks for this, i'll convert to MP3 and upload it to other sites straight away :)

<h6><b><font color="Black">SebasMercury wrote:

av1dkson wrote: Thanks for this, i'll convert to MP3 and upload it to other sites straight away :)

Are you joking? NEVER DO THAT!

Mike Van wrote: This probably just a wind up in reaction to Bob's overblown preaching.

"The truth about lossy file types is that, under proper scientific double blind studies, a very small percentage of humans are able to hear the difference between uncompressed .wav audio and high quality (192 KBps or higher) encoded lossy formats.

Of course, sites like The Trader's Den do not demand that f;ac files not be shared as mp3 on other web sites. and admit mp3's have their place:

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Mike Van wrote:

"The truth about lossy file types is that, under proper scientific double blind studies, a very small percentage of humans are able to hear the difference between uncompressed .wav audio and high quality (192 KBps or higher) encoded lossy formats.

The bitrate is the key factor here. Most people encode mp3s at 128 kbps. This was considered "standard quality" a few years ago

Most of my mp3 files are 192 kbps or higher. In fact 192 kbps is the default rate on my Roxio software. It can be argued that the "standard quality" of mp3's is now higher than the 128 kbps "standard" of a few years ago.
All I am asking is that mp3 be tolerated (as it is allowed on QZ), as spectrum analyzers will readily detect lossy files being being presented as lossless, and because mp3's are not cseriously considered trading material (and as such have a limited threat to the trading pool).
Many other flac sharers on QZ do not resort to threats to stop sharing, and most QZ posters do not insult the intelligence of mp3 users.
I ask you to take their example.
The main reason for the success of flac on QZ is not because of the threats ... it is a postive reaction to the lower generation recordings being shared.
I am not the only one complains about the treatment mp3 users (928 recently got an earful from several posters. I may be the only one who is consistently vocal, but that is because so many posters have been beaten into submission.
Flac is likely the more popular format on QZ, but that does not mean that mp3's can not be shared on QZ.

Mike Van wrote: I never said that mp3 is as good as flac, but is clearly inaccurate to label mp3 as a huge step below flac.

There needs to be more tolerance of those who prefer mp3. Few seriously consider mp3's to be trading material, and as such are a limited threat to the "trading pool."

Bob - if one of your shares is converted to mp3 and reshared, how will you be able to conclude that the mp3 came from your share and not some other simiar mp3 source?

av1dkson wrote: I wish to convert mine to MP3 and trade it.

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Mike Van wrote: I never said that mp3 is as good as flac, but is clearly inaccurate to label mp3 as a huge step below flac.

I could not disagree more. Compare: wav - link mp3 - link The difference is undeniably huge. (WHAT GENERATION WAS YOUR MP3 FILE? WHAT KBPS RATE? HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS BEEN CONVERTED TO MP3? AS YOU INDICATE BELOW, THIS TYPE OF RECORDING WILL FADE INTO OBSCURITY.) If you don't agree, then that simply means that you don't really care about this kind of quality difference... which of course is fine. Just don't criticize those who do (I CRITICIZE THOSE WHO INSULT MP3 USERS.). These people are growing in number by the day. Technology, as well as overall interest in preserving audio quality, is moving forward... not backward. Honestly, I can't possibly understand why anyone would prefer to have this show in the above mp3 quality when the FLAC version sounds that much better. Collecting should be about having the best possible recording... not saving hard drive space. If someone wants mp3s, then they can download the FLACs, and convert it to mp3 for their own use. (WHO APPOINTED YOU AS GOD OF QZ?)

There needs to be more tolerance of those who prefer mp3. Few seriously consider mp3's to be trading material, and as such are a limited threat to the "trading pool."

Then why do you so adamantly speak in defense of them if you know they are few in number? (I SPEAK IN DEFENSE BECAUSE I BELIEVE MP3 SHARING IS OVERBLOWN AS A THREAT TO THE TRADING POOL.) Sure, you could come back and say "why are you so concerned if they are so few in number?" Because, all it takes is for ONE person to ruin a recording and circulate it - even if they don't consciously intend to do so. (YET OTHER HIGHER GENERATION FLAC AND MP3 FILES STILL EXIST. WHAT MAKES THE NEW CONVERSIONS TO MP3 DIFFERENT?) Not everyone knows how to test a recording to see if it's lossless or not. Not everyone is an expert. (YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE AN EXPERT TO USE A SPECTRAL ANALYZER. I CAN NOT IMAGINE THAT EVEN SEMI-SERIOUS TRADERS WOULD BE SO FOOLISH AS TO NOT CHECK THEIR RECENTLY DOWNLOADED FLAC FILES WITH A SPECTRAL ANALYZER). Therefore, it's best to urge (YOU THREATEN, YOU DO NOT "URGE") people to keep lossless files lossless from the start, and they can dive into the details later if they so wish. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw this as some kind of indoctrination (I SEE ONLY YOUR THREATS), but I prefer to see it as showing people the correct way off the bat. We need to ensure that the best version of each show is circulating, and that all obsolete versions fall into obscurity (RECENT MP3 CONVERSIONS BACK TO FLAC FILES WILL QUICKLY FALL INTO OBSCURITY, JUST LIKE OLD OBSOLETE VERSIONS). Anything else just adds to the problem. Why is this so difficult to understand? (WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO USE A SPECTRAL ANALYZER, AND LEAVE MP3 USERS ALONE?)

Bob - if one of your shares is converted to mp3 and reshared, how will you be able to conclude that the mp3 came from your share and not some other simiar mp3 source?

In the case of this Oakland 80 show, I would be completely sure, because I am the first QZ user who got their hands on the third gen copy. I haven't seen this recording on anyone's list, so it's very safe to assume that I'm the only one who had it until now. Therefore, any lossy version would have to be made from this specific share (ARE YOU GOING TO SCROUNGE THE HUB AND ALL OTHER MP3 DOWNLOADS YOU ENCOUNTER AND LISTEN TO EACH MP3 RECORDING TO DETECT ANY INFERIOR MP3 VERSION. ARE YOU SURE THAT THERE ARE NOT ANY 4TH OR 5TH GENERATION MP3 CONVERSIONS OUT THERE THAT ARE ALMOST AS GOOD AS "YOUR RECORDING"?) Of course, there is the incredibly slight chance th

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: You have put all this effort into discussing the pros and cons of quality preservation, and you're listening to your music through cheap mini-speakers? After you have established an interest in even hearing your music in decent quality (regardless of its digital source), then we can continue this discussion.

Mike Van wrote: I see Wiley and The Game have managed to post a response without insults. Of course Bob has to resort to insults and heavy handed methods to get his point across. For some reason, he cannot adapt to mp3 sharing, and chooses to try to beat mp3 sharers into submission.

Nummer2 wrote: If we want to keep generous collectors (like Bob, among others) active on QZ, we have to obey their rules. It's as easy as that.

Nummer2 wrote: If we want to keep generous collectors (like Bob, among others) active on QZ, we have to obey their rules. It's as easy as that.

Nummer2 wrote: If we want to keep generous collectors (like Bob, among others) active on QZ, we have to obey their rules. It's as easy as that.

<b><font color="blue">Mr. Farenheit wrote: I obbey Sir Bob's rules, because i want to keep the lossless files as lossless, and obviously he's the best in that.

Mike Van wrote: For some reason, he cannot adapt to mp3 sharing, and chooses to try to beat mp3 sharers into submission.

av1dkson wrote: I don't think bashing a member for their computer speakers is a very good way to do things either, Bob.

Ginger01 wrote: When I saw Av1dkson’s first post I thought it was a windup – instead it has launched a serious argument, generating some good points and a lot of spurious ones. You’re missing part of the equation – for a market of any kind to exist there has to be demand as well as supply – who would knowingly go for mp3 if you can get FLAC? In my mind, only someone who listens on low-quality speakers or earpods, or has very limited bandwidth, or who doesn’t know the difference. Of these, the first lot will upgrade as soon as they listen on decent equipment, the second once they get broadband, the third need to be educated. As far as QZ is concerned, over the past few months I have seen hardly any mp3 on offer – hopefully this means that demand is disappearing too. Fortunately the second group seem to be disappearing as people like Bob share great quality bootlegs with the world at large (thank you again and please continue!), and I would hope that the former will lose credibility after they trade one fake FLAC. There are two real problems for me : one is mp3-sourced FLACs which really do pollute the trading pool (and undermining people’s trust); the second is people sharing mp3 on QZ/the Hub and reserving their FLACs for trading with supposedly worthy individuals. We have technology on our side – ipods with 30/40GB capacity are getting cheaper, making it possible to listen to FLAC if you have the headphones. If you disagree with the results of Bob’s “experiment”, try it yourself – take a FLAC track, convert to mp3 and you will see (or should I say hear) for yourself. As 928 so correctly pointed out, how can 128 (or even 192) kbs possibly compete with 14400 kbs? Mike Van, Bob is not beating anyone into submission with his “Keep lossless files lossless”. He’s encouraging all of us to maintain and preserve the quality of the recordings he has gone through some effort to acquire. Where’s the problem? Bob, please continue with your efforts to share the best quality available. I will help torrenting – my minor contribution to “sharing the music” (and the quality).

Dr3amSl33p wrote: I bet he would have allready posted the links if he had uploaded the files to mediafire yet. ;-) At the moment Bob is rocking Toronto at the WWRY Opening.. *fingers crossed*. He will give us the remaining parts as soon as he is able to I guess. I really wonder (and appreciate) he found time to start this announce just right before that big event. oO

turini wrote: i really want to hear bohemian! id appreciate even more if you could share the last two

Wiley wrote: they would know that if they spend 2 days downloading a the Houston 77 DVD (which had not been online until about 2 years ago) they are getting IT, the REAL DEAL,

928 wrote: I would argue that bit. It wasn't the real deal. It was a re-encode as it should of been in NTSC and not PAL

av1dkson wrote: Hahaha yes thats funny. I will not be sharing any of my Queen material here (for the immediate future, anyway). It gets shared at another un-named torrent site and through trades with serious traders with good reputations. I have a small (but very interesting) amount of video footage that is not in circulation right now (one pro shot and 3 audience shot), and I MAY torrent one of these in the future but I need the permission of the taper first and he is difficult to get hold of. Until that time I suggest that you stop bashing me - or it'll never be circulated. Any INXS fans in here ;) lol

av1dkson wrote: As I said I will be transferring them to PC for authoring, then to DVD, but due to time constraints this wont be done straight away.

av1dkson wrote: Yes. He busts his ass. He puts a CD in the player and presses a few buttons. Man I bet he's exhausted after that!

av1dkson wrote: Saying that I am going to convert this into MP3 is a very quick and easy way of stirring up hostility. Which is something I do very well, and managed to again in this thread. So i'm happy :) As for 'leaving your oxygen alone', that has to go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at an insult I have ever read. Thanks for making me chuckle though :) As for my uncirculated tapes, it's amazing that someone says that he has something rare and very much wanted, yet he is ridiculed for it. That is not a healthy way to get these tapes into circulation people. You should know better lol. Now that's over with let's get down to business. As I said earlier I have some uncirculated Queen material on 4 video tapes. I have had these in my collection gathering dust for a number of years now, and having recently purchased a pretty good video capture card will be converting these to DVD format once I find the time. I have checked many Queen collectors websites and other information resources regarding these tapes and as far as I can tell they are uncirculated. I don't want to go into long details about each one because I don't want to get flooded with requests to upload them. I will go as far as to say one of them is a 1986 show, is a complete audience recording directly off the master and also includes the INXS set (they were one of the warm up acts). Aside from this one I also have 2 other audience recordings (one complete, the other missing 3 tracks from the end), and one pro shot recording which looks complete but I have not verified the setlist. If there are serious traders who use this forum (and from what I have read up to this point there doesn't seem like many), I would like to discuss this further in the near future. As I said I will be transferring them to PC for authoring, then to DVD, but due to time constraints this wont be done straight away. IF you are serious and not just going to start bitching, make your self heard. SERIOUS TRADERS ONLY PLEASE, I really don't want to waste my time with people who don't give a shit. Thanks :)

av1dkson wrote: Now. Serious traders. I want to trade (depending on the tapers answer as the last I heard from the taper these were NFT). If you have something worth trading please contact me. We'll have a chat, see how it goes.

av1dkson wrote: Saying that I am going to convert this into MP3 is a very quick and easy way of stirring up hostility. Which is something I do very well, and managed to again in this thread. So i'm happy :) As for 'leaving your oxygen alone', that has to go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at an insult I have ever read. Thanks for making me chuckle though :) As for my uncirculated tapes, it's amazing that someone says that he has something rare and very much wanted, yet he is ridiculed for it. That is not a healthy way to get these tapes into circulation people. You should know better lol. Now that's over with let's get down to business. As I said earlier I have some uncirculated Queen material on 4 video tapes. I have had these in my collection gathering dust for a number of years now, and having recently purchased a pretty good video capture card will be converting these to DVD format once I find the time. I have checked many Queen collectors websites and other information resources regarding these tapes and as far as I can tell they are uncirculated. I don't want to go into long details about each one because I don't want to get flooded with requests to upload them. I will go as far as to say one of them is a 1986 show, is a complete audience recording directly off the master and also includes the INXS set (they were one of the warm up acts). Aside from this one I also have 2 other audience recordings (one complete, the other missing 3 tracks from the end), and one pro shot recording which looks complete but I have not verified the setlist. If there are serious traders who use this forum (and from what I have read up to this point there doesn't seem like many), I would like to discuss this further in the near future. As I said I will be transferring them to PC for authoring, then to DVD, but due to time constraints this wont be done straight away. IF you are serious and not just going to start bitching, make your self heard. SERIOUS TRADERS ONLY PLEASE, I really don't want to waste my time with people who don't give a shit. Thanks :)

av1dkson wrote: Saying that I am going to convert this into MP3 is a very quick and easy way of stirring up hostility. Which is something I do very well, and managed to again in this thread. So i'm happy :) As for 'leaving your oxygen alone', that has to go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at an insult I have ever read. Thanks for making me chuckle though :) As for my uncirculated tapes, it's amazing that someone says that he has something rare and very much wanted, yet he is ridiculed for it. That is not a healthy way to get these tapes into circulation people. You should know better lol. Now that's over with let's get down to business. As I said earlier I have some uncirculated Queen material on 4 video tapes. I have had these in my collection gathering dust for a number of years now, and having recently purchased a pretty good video capture card will be converting these to DVD format once I find the time. I have checked many Queen collectors websites and other information resources regarding these tapes and as far as I can tell they are uncirculated. I don't want to go into long details about each one because I don't want to get flooded with requests to upload them. I will go as far as to say one of them is a 1986 show, is a complete audience recording directly off the master and also includes the INXS set (they were one of the warm up acts). Aside from this one I also have 2 other audience recordings (one complete, the other missing 3 tracks from the end), and one pro shot recording which looks complete but I have not verified the setlist. If there are serious traders who use this forum (and from what I have read up to this point there doesn't seem like many), I would like to discuss this further in the near future. As I said I will be transferring them to PC for authoring, then to DVD, but due to time constraints this wont be done straight away. IF you are serious and not just going to start bitching, make your self heard. SERIOUS TRADERS ONLY PLEASE, I really don't want to waste my time with people who don't give a shit. Thanks :)

av1dkson wrote: Now. Serious traders. I want to trade (depending on the tapers answer as the last I heard from the taper these were NFT). If you have something worth trading please contact me. We'll have a chat, see how it goes.

av1dkson wrote: Now. Serious traders. I want to trade (depending on the tapers answer as the last I heard from the taper these were NFT). If you have something worth trading please contact me. We'll have a chat, see how it goes.

av1dkson wrote: Thanks for your reply. I don't think you were harsh, as I said I provoke it. In terms of people saying "don't talk about it, just release it". That is just not possible and if the people making these comments were serious traders they would understand why. Yes, I can understand peoples impatience especially when it concerns a band they adore. But if I was to just upload my material and be doen with it, not only would it mean the material is worthless and no longer tradable for other rare items, it may also go against the wishes of the taper. Therefore these things take time. I apologize to Sir GH for hijacking his thread, if this can get moved to a thread fo it's own i'd appreciate it. Now. Serious traders. I want to trade (depending on the tapers answer as the last I heard from the taper these were NFT). If you have something worth trading please contact me. We'll have a chat, see how it goes. The rest of you, if you want to keep slagging off a person who has something that Queen 'FANS' would give their left ear for, go right ahead. It's just not the best way to see something you have never seen before (unless you have copies too, and I doubt you do) Thanks.

av1dkson wrote: Hahaha yes thats funny. I will not be sharing any of my Queen material here (for the immediate future, anyway). It gets shared at another un-named torrent site and through trades with serious traders with good reputations. I have a small (but very interesting) amount of video footage that is not in circulation right now (one pro shot and 3 audience shot), and I MAY torrent one of these in the future but I need the permission of the taper first and he is difficult to get hold of. Until that time I suggest that you stop bashing me - or it'll never be circulated. Any INXS fans in here ;) lol

av1dkson wrote: Now. Serious traders. I want to trade (depending on the tapers answer as the last I heard from the taper these were NFT). If you have something worth trading please contact me. We'll have a chat, see how it goes.

av1dkson wrote: A few of you have asked for more details. So here you go. As I said I will be in touch with a couple of you soon to discuss possibel trades. No guarantees though. 1 - 1986-07-11 Wembley Stadium, London. A complete audience shot version exists, including INXS' set and a Status Quo track. Suffers from some pretty bad tracking on ITTWWC (looks to be a transferring error). My copy is a direct copy form the taper's master copy. 2 - 1986-08-05 Marbella, Spain A complete audience shot exists. Looks as if my copy is 2nd or 3rd gen at best, very good audio tho. Picture is a little dark and has tracking lines along around half an inch of the bottom of the screen. Still, it's complete. 3 - 1985-04-28 Sydney, Australia I own a copy of this transferred from the taper's master copy. Missing the last 3 tracks (WWRY, WATC and GSTQ). Filmed from pretty far out but still perfectly watchable. ..and lastly.... 4 - 1986-06-21 Manheim, Germany PRO SHOT. As far as I can tell it is complete but I do not know the full setlist to verify that. Beautiful quality for it's age. This is a 2nd gen tape, and it has also been converted from PAL to NTSC (not my doing).

Crezchi wrote: Sorry but this isn't uncirculated, i have a master of this video complete and perfect video and audio. 2nd, I am not trying to rain on your parade, but Marbella concert in video is so bad, and from my memory and a few other collectors and traders, Manheim was not filmed Pro-Shot.

Sam99 wrote: Chin, would you mind please sharing again please, just noticed my old copy has corrupted and I can’t decode? Unfortunately the link above isn’t working. Thank you