QueenZone discussion #944728
Live Magic edits? Um...no...
| rhyeking 15.01.2007 20:50 |
Okay, I'll be the first to admit this discovery comes from my innate completist fandom. I have the CD of Live Magic, and on the back sleeve it proudly proclaims that the tracks "A Kind Of Magic", "Another One Bites The Dust" and "Hammer To Fall" are the "Full Live Version"s. I figured that meant the LP was edited. I live i Canada, so getting the CD as an import years ago was hard enough, let alone finding the LP. A few weeks ago I stumbled on the LP in a used record shop and snagged it for $6.99 (Canadian). The first thing I did was check the track times on the LP label, comparing them to each other each. Here's what the formats say: Actual CD track times: AKOM = 5:29 AOBTD = 5:50 HTF = 5:20 LP label track times: AKOM = 4:42 AOBTD = 5:33 HTF = 4:40 That seemed pretty obvious that these LP versions were edited, even though nowhere on the LP does it say these are edited. So, the next step was add these to my collection. I set about copying these versions at a buddy's house. We recorded the tracks and I could hear no difference. Hmm, I thought. We copied the tracks from the vinyl to my hard drive and I compared them to my MP3s of CD tracks. You guessed it... No difference. I even went so far as to play them simultaneously and they stayed in synch. Those three tracks are NOT edited on the Long Play record of Live Magic. So, the label on the LP is wrong as far as those three tracks are concerned. On top of that, the CD advertises "Full Live Version"s, which is correct, per se, but the LP has these versions too. In short, someone in quality control at EMI and Capitol Records needs to be smacked. One difference between the two editions is that the audience participation part ("Daaaayoooo") with Freddie is absent from the LP. You might be thinking "Hey, that's why the 'Dust' time is different!" Well, no, not exactly. AOBTD, the song itself (both editions), is about 4:33 seconds long. Neither listed times are even close. The CD includes the "dayooos", so it's accurate in containing both. The LP is just plain wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. And a footnote about the "Dayoos": the audience participation bit seems tobe culled from two or all three concerts featured on the album. The last part is definately from Knebworth ("you f---ers are good, I tell you!") and it sounds like at least one part in the middle is from Wembley. So, there you go. You learn something new everyday! Rhyeking |
| The Real Wizard 16.01.2007 00:12 |
rhyeking wrote: And a footnote about the "Dayoos": the audience participation bit seems tobe culled from two or all three concerts featured on the album. The last part is definately from Knebworth ("you f---ers are good, I tell you!") and it sounds like at least one part in the middle is from Wembley.Are you talking about the cd or LP here? On the cd, it's definitely all from Knebworth. |
| Markman38 16.01.2007 05:20 |
Do you have a life? I mean WOW I''m completely stunned by this discovery ha ha ha ha.I sometimes just wonder how much time some people spent of finding the so called truth.....My God, Queen make or made music so why don't we just listen to the music and stop bothering about a comment here an edit there..what's the point comparing to the situation in Dafur, the war in Iraq, Bush...... Just enjoy the music and if there is a difference or not so okay..... I'm not here to judge you, and if you make your life worthwhile by finding the truth about the publishing of Queen music I hope you are happy with that. But this was just a cose for me to sit back and smile from ear to ear. |
| rhyeking 16.01.2007 06:41 |
SirGH, I'm refering to the CD. This bit is absent from the LP. (Anyone know if it's on the cassette?) The Knebworth Mix of "Under Pressure", from CDQUEENS28 begins with the audience participation bit, but after listening to them repeatedly, the only thing identical is the last portion. Everybody needs a hobby. :-) Rhyeking |
| Richy Mercury 16.01.2007 09:00 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Bob,rhyeking wrote: And a footnote about the "Dayoos": the audience participation bit seems tobe culled from two or all three concerts featured on the album. The last part is definately from Knebworth ("you f---ers are good, I tell you!") and it sounds like at least one part in the middle is from Wembley.Are you talking about the cd or LP here? On the cd, it's definitely all from Knebworth. Are you sure its all from Knebworth? Are there any overdubs? Why hasn't somebody synched this up to the Knebworth '86 dvd? |
| Lester Burnham 16.01.2007 09:10 |
Markman38 wrote: Do you have a life? I mean WOW I''m completely stunned by this discovery ha ha ha ha.I sometimes just wonder how much time some people spent of finding the so called truth.....My God, Queen make or made music so why don't we just listen to the music and stop bothering about a comment here an edit there..what's the point comparing to the situation in Dafur, the war in Iraq, Bush...... Just enjoy the music and if there is a difference or not so okay..... I'm not here to judge you, and if you make your life worthwhile by finding the truth about the publishing of Queen music I hope you are happy with that. But this was just a cose for me to sit back and smile from ear to ear.Geez, the guy's a Queen fan, and you call him out for definitively putting an end to what's been called the truth for 21 years. He even said he knew it was the smallest thing regarding Queen, but I can't imagine it taking more than an hour or two to have figured it out. Good job! What have you contributed to these boards? I'm so sick of people using the lame argument that "there's other things in the world to think about besides <this supposedly minor thing>". There's a reason this is called Queenzone and not IraqWarzone or ImportantIssueszone. Do you want to wager a guess why? Here's a hint: so that we can talk about things called Queen. Why don't you go bother people who are talking about Roger's sex tape, or the reason Freddie wore Addidas shoes, instead of hijacking a thread that contains something actually useful. For what it's worth, rhyeking, I found the information useful, and I thank you for that. I always enjoy hearing busted myths and so-called truths about Queen's history. |
| Markman38 16.01.2007 11:29 |
He Lester I was just amused and I said it with a smile it is maybe my age lamost 40 and saw Queen in the orginal line up a couple of times. I end my comment with that I don't judge anybody but just that I was wondering about the time and energy that somebody put in searching for this kinda things.This tells indeed something more about me than about the topic starter, and I read the article off course and it did amused me, more than it did then your reaction behaving like a little boy on a l;onely schoolyard shouting. |
| ryanalan1 16.01.2007 11:32 |
Lester Burnham wrote:Back off a bit and leave him say what he has to say. If he feels that way he has the right to poast what he feels. It's better than asking a boring topic like iss brian a great guitarist.Markman38 wrote: Do you have a life? I mean WOW I''m completely stunned by this discovery ha ha ha ha.I sometimes just wonder how much time some people spent of finding the so called truth.....My God, Queen make or made music so why don't we just listen to the music and stop bothering about a comment here an edit there..what's the point comparing to the situation in Dafur, the war in Iraq, Bush...... Just enjoy the music and if there is a difference or not so okay..... I'm not here to judge you, and if you make your life worthwhile by finding the truth about the publishing of Queen music I hope you are happy with that. But this was just a cose for me to sit back and smile from ear to ear.Geez, the guy's a Queen fan, and you call him out for definitively putting an end to what's been called the truth for 21 years. He even said he knew it was the smallest thing regarding Queen, but I can't imagine it taking more than an hour or two to have figured it out. Good job! What have you contributed to these boards? I'm so sick of people using the lame argument that "there's other things in the world to think about besides <this supposedly minor thing>". There's a reason this is called Queenzone and not IraqWarzone or ImportantIssueszone. Do you want to wager a guess why? Here's a hint: so that we can talk about things called Queen. Why don't you go bother people who are talking about Roger's sex tape, or the reason Freddie wore Addidas shoes, instead of hijacking a thread that contains something actually useful. For what it's worth, rhyeking, I found the information useful, and I thank you for that. I always enjoy hearing busted myths and so-called truths about Queen's history. I enjoyed what he had to say and don't need an idiot like you to say that it was totally irrelevant. He's on queenzone because he's a fan. Can you not understand that. If people want to make associations thats their choice. |
| Lester Burnham 16.01.2007 11:41 |
ryanalan1 wrote: Back off a bit and leave him say what he has to say. If he feels that way he has the right to poast what he feels. It's better than asking a boring topic like iss brian a great guitarist. I enjoyed what he had to say and don't need an idiot like you to say that it was totally irrelevant. He's on queenzone because he's a fan. Can you not understand that. If people want to make associations thats their choice.Was that directed at me, because I do agree with what you said which is why I said what I said... If it was directed at me, then... well, I just don't get it. Anyway... Markman38 wrote: He Lester I was just amused and I said it with a smile it is maybe my age lamost 40 and saw Queen in the orginal line up a couple of times. I end my comment with that I don't judge anybody but just that I was wondering about the time and energy that somebody put in searching for this kinda things.This tells indeed something more about me than about the topic starter, and I read the article off course and it did amused me, more than it did then your reaction behaving like a little boy on a l;onely schoolyard shouting.I don't get the connection between with you being amused about what rhyeking said and you being 40 years old and having seen the original line-up a couple of times. But that's not my main point. The very first thing you said was "Do you have a life?" which is a judgment itself. So yes, you were judging someone, and if you took the time to read some of rhyeking's contributions in the past, I'm sure you'd have more of an appreciation for the information he's provided. Maybe my sense of humor is off today, because I don't see anything amusing about the original post -- sure, it was mundane, even rhyeking said that, and I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to have done what he did -- but to each his own. As for you thinking that what I said was akin to me behaving like a little boy shouting on a lonely schoolyard... well, there's another judgment for you. I actually thought it was a fairly reasoned post, whereas your original was anything but, and nowhere did I call you any names or question anything about you (except for your contributions to this board, which I've never run across in my time here), yet you felt compelled to call me a child. You're just full of judgments today, aren't ya! |
| Markman38 16.01.2007 11:45 |
Lester you are off course completely right, you know it all .....................................................................................He look behind you I think there lays your sense of humor in the corner |
| Lester Burnham 16.01.2007 12:06 |
Markman38 wrote: Lester you are off course completely right, you know it all .....................................................................................He look behind you I think there lays your sense of humor in the cornerThanks man, I've been looking all over for it. |
| rhyeking 16.01.2007 12:58 |
Why do people "waste" time collecting stamps? Why do they play with model trains, rather than oh, say, learning another language or volunteering at a homeless shelter? We have things called hobbies. They are individual and I agree that it says something about me that I found this tidbit of information worthwhile. It says I'm a well-rounded individual. I also read a great deal, write, draw, paint, hang out with friends and go camping. I like sports, but don't give a rat's ass about stats or plays, player's technique or really anything else beyond just watching a game. There are people who can tell you all that minutae of a player and a team, and I'm impressed by the wealth of information, if not by the practical need for a layman to require it. What I don't do is say, "Dude, do you have a life?" They have their hobbies, I have mine. Honestly, I don't care that you think such tiny details aren't worth attention. Yes, enjoy the music, by all means. If you have no interest in the topic, it ought to be common sense that you should move on to posting in a thread where you can contribute. In case I'm not being clear, and for reasons of thread brevity and to save you asking for clarification, I just told you off by saying Queen song versions are something of a hobby, that normal people *have* hobbies, and that you're wasting time being a knob. I'm finished with you, and I thank Lester and company for their support. Queen rocks! Rhyeking |
| Serry... 16.01.2007 13:13 |
"QZers like to ruin interesting and useful threads" - from the book "QZ and its inhabitants" by Serry Vietinhoff |
| rhyeking 16.01.2007 13:30 |
Hahaha... I'd buy that book! Rhyeking |
| Bono Mercury 16.01.2007 13:34 |
Who gives a toss |
| Nathan 16.01.2007 13:57 |
Maybe the footage from Knebworth (except that from the big screen) doesn't exist, but it would certainly make a nice double-disc release one day. |
| rhyeking 16.01.2007 14:29 |
Brian said the video footage doesn't exist. But some or all of the audio seems to be in the vault, as some songs on Live Magic are from Knebworth (the others are from Wembley and Nepstadion, according to the sleeve). And in '99 they issued the aforementioned "Knebworth Mix" of "Under Pressure". And SirGH, I listened to the two audience participation pieces again (Live Magic's and the Knebworth Mix's) and except for the last few seconds and Freddie's dialogue, the two are different. Not subtly different, but he's singing entirely different melodies. Compare the two. Someone's been doing some editing somewhere. |
| Queenman!! 16.01.2007 14:36 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:No, hammer to fall is from wembley 2nd night. I know that guitar solo in the middle out of thousands. Wembley...yep!!rhyeking wrote: And a footnote about the "Dayoos": the audience participation bit seems tobe culled from two or all three concerts featured on the album. The last part is definately from Knebworth ("you f---ers are good, I tell you!") and it sounds like at least one part in the middle is from Wembley.Are you talking about the cd or LP here? On the cd, it's definitely all from Knebworth. |
| AlexRocks 16.01.2007 15:37 |
The "ImportantIssueZone.com"! That was funny as hell Lester Burnham! |
| rhyeking 16.01.2007 16:00 |
Yes, "Hammer To Fall" is from Wembley. I think SirGH is refering to the entire audience participation bit being from the Knebworth. Rhyeking |
| The Real Wizard 17.01.2007 03:01 |
Markman38 wrote: I'm not here to judge you, and if you make your life worthwhile by finding the truth about the publishing of Queen music I hope you are happy with that. But this was just a cose for me to sit back and smile from ear to ear.Then you should have left it at that, rather than going out of your way to make fun of him for doing what you were too lazy to do. Lester Burnham wrote: For what it's worth, rhyeking, I found the information useful, and I thank you for that. I always enjoy hearing busted myths and so-called truths about Queen's history.I'll second that. rhyeking wrote: I think SirGH is refering to the entire audience participation bit being from the Knebworth.Exactly, but on Live Magic, there is a cut in the middle. The Day-O on the Under Pressure Rah Mix cd single is also from Knebworth, and it starts at a point that was cut out from the Live Magic version. That's why the two appear to be different... but take my word for it... it's all Knebworth. |
| Wilki Amieva 17.01.2007 08:15 |
Which vinyl pressing did you acquire? Mine is definetely edited (but, as you have said, not always in the music)! I should also notice that some CD pressings (e.g: the original Japanese pressing and also the 1994 re-issue to go along the Digital Master Series) are edited as vinyl (wrong master). |
| Markman38 17.01.2007 10:18 |
He Sir GH back off by calling me lazy, there is no point in interrupting this thing between Lester and me while there was no thing at all only a misunderstanding and a mutual mis interception about the humor he and I use. You at the other hand has nothing to do with this so your judgement is not cool and I rather have you to stay out of this..thanks in advance |
| Asterik 18.01.2007 15:53 |
This has to be one of the most mind-numbingly pointless posts I have ever come across. The real thing we should be discussing is the dreadful effects those edits had on the quality of the CD. That's what matters to the average Queen fan. |
| Wilki Amieva 19.01.2007 00:58 |
No... Not AGAIN!? |
| Asterik 19.01.2007 12:19 |
Well I make no apologies- I think it is an unneccessary topic- as I've said before we should be more concerned about the effects the edits had, we should discuss the quality of recording, singing etc. not something like this. |
| rhyeking 19.01.2007 15:00 |
rhyeking wrote: I think SirGH is refering to the entire audience participation bit being from the Knebworth. SirGH wrote: Exactly, but on Live Magic, there is a cut in the middle. The Day-O on the Under Pressure Rah Mix cd single is also from Knebworth, and it starts at a point that was cut out from the Live Magic version. That's why the two appear to be different... but take my word for it... it's all Knebworth. And Rhyeking's reply: Ah, okay. Thank you, SirGh. I knew there'd been some snipping done somewhere AND that the two appeared different. That explains it. And as to this being pointless. I disagree, and so it would seem Lester and SirGH (among others) disagree. Serious Discussion should not be limited to subjective things like how a remix/edit/extension effects the listeability of a track. That is certainly a valid point of discussion and I welcome such discussions. But for collectors interested in having these alternate versions, mislabelling and misleading descriptions are very serious as it can effect the relative value of a rare release and for completists (such as me) who just want to have every version of everything Queen released, it's important to know what is out there. Someone above asked what edition I have of the Live Magic LP. Mine is the Capitol Records pressing. Please don't tell me there's a difference between the UK and US editions. To re-iterate, my research so far demonstrates there is no difference between the audio of the LP and CD, with the exception of the edited "Dayooo" audience participation bit. AND that the listed LP track times are wrong (the songs aren't edited on the LP). I've presented the facts I've discovered and invited further discussion, unless we've covered everything. Does anyone know what's going on on the cassette version? Was this released on cassette? |
| Deacon Fan 19.01.2007 18:58 |
Nothing to add to this except to say that I find discussions of different versions much more interesting than 99% of the other crap we get around here. If you find something to be pointless and not worth discussing, take your own advice and shut the hell up :) Posting messages about the alleged pointlessness is in itself pointless. |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 19.01.2007 19:59 |
rhyeking wrote: ... Honestly, I don't care that you think such tiny details aren't worth attention. Yes, enjoy the music, by all means. If you have no interest in the topic, it ought to be common sense that you should move on to posting in a thread where you can contribute. ... Queen rocks! RhyekingAbsolute agred with those parts, buddy. Cheers, and rock on, Ogre- |
| The Real Wizard 19.01.2007 21:31 |
Rhyeking... don't waste your time justifying yourself. You know you're doing the right thing. |
| Wilki Amieva 19.01.2007 22:29 |
Agreed. And I think I've been hearing complaints about the LIVE MAGIC edits in the past 20 years, while this is new stuff. Thanks. Let me check some notes and I will be back on the subject. |