deleted user 02.11.2006 18:29 |
I decided to make a new thread about this after I was originally going to post in the "Last Songs of Queen" thread (where the thought was sparked) - but decided it was probably too off-topic. I remember a quote (I don't know where, or if it had any credence or not) that I THINK was Montserrat Caballé* quoting Freddie or something as saying that he was "really a baritone" but "his fans would never accept that". I was wondering what other people think of that, if the quote is authentic... blah, blah, blah. * Truly, this ranks up there with when I bought a fashion book and could find how to spell Zandra Rhodes without the magic of google - ahem. Disregard. |
deleted user 02.11.2006 20:39 |
Should this have been in Serious Discussion ? |
M a t i a s M a y 02.11.2006 22:04 |
HERE AND EVERYWHERE, FREDDIE IS A FUCKING TENOR |
The Real Wizard 02.11.2006 22:52 |
I'd classify him as a baritenor. His speaking voice was low like a baritone, but no baritone can hit high C and D like Freddie could hit. |
deleted user 02.11.2006 22:56 |
Baritone? Tenor? Come on guys! He's Freddie! He can do anything! |
beautifulsoup 02.11.2006 22:57 |
IMHO, natural light lyric baritone - pushed up to tenor. It's not about range - it's about vocal color. |
deleted user 02.11.2006 23:04 |
My personal opinion is that if I go by what I've read about his voice (I don't have perfect pitch, at can't test low notes)... I can't really classify that. His range extends all over the place. Baritenor would make sense. Definately lower than what a Tenor is required to sing (though I don't know if the average tenor can sing lower than he is usually asked to). But with the whole "vocal cord nodule" thing, it would seem like a great deal of strain to get the high notes. Which is what really made me think about the "really a baritone" quote. And the note that I remember really making me go "wow" is the last "love" in the Live at Wembley "Radio Ga Ga". Because it was so rich and powerful that I was just blown away. And I don't see what the big deal is for some people if the label isn't "Tenor". Does it make him less of a vocalist ? Post Script : I'm don't really care, personally, what Freddie's voice is called - "would not a rose by any other name smell just as sweet" - to paraphrase. But I'm interested because I think by understanding familiar voices' "types", it could help me understand my own. Plus, the voice is such an interesting topic - which shouldn't be limited to shouting "He was a Tenor !" or "She's a Colouratura Soprano !". And thank you to everyone who posted in complete sentences. I really do appreciate it. |
M a t i a s M a y 03.11.2006 01:36 |
IF HE HITS A D4... HE IS A FUCKING TENOR!!! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!! |
unknown 03.11.2006 05:34 |
Here is a friendly answer from a person who is involved in the opera 'business' since her birth (my parents are both opera singers and I have vocal training too): Freddie was a baritone, but he often sang 'falsetto', i.e. with his 'head voice' - beyond his 'natural range'. Actually, baritones are perfectly suited for a rock/pop branche and there are in fact nearly only baritones in this business, because they have a much stronger voice in the 'falsetto range': f. ex. Elton John, Elvis Presley, Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix... A tenor voice is a 'weaker' or better said sensible voice for the pop rock branche, but this doesn't mean that their voice is less beautiful - Jon Anderson from Yes is a tenor f. ex. Hope that helps. |
unknown 03.11.2006 06:15 |
If you're interested: baritones are also Sting, Robert Plant (that's because he can 'scream' so well:)), Michael Jackson (his falsetto use is excellent), Rod Steward... |
Sebastian 03.11.2006 07:51 |
I used to think of him as a baritone, but I was wrong. |
unknown 03.11.2006 08:48 |
I have to disagree, because baritones cannot turn into tenors and viceversa. The term 'baritone' and 'tenor' describes the natural range; everything that goes beyond is 'squeezed' out or sung with falsetto. In the case of Freddie's: his natural range was always baritone. In his early days his 'respiring technique' was not developed and his voice therefore too weak to hold the notes like he did later. Only later he gained experience and his voice became stronger. |
deleted user 03.11.2006 09:11 |
<b><font color=B22222>daria k. wrote: Here is a friendly answer from a person who is involved in the opera 'business' since her birth (my parents are both opera singers and I have vocal training too): Freddie was a baritone, but he often sang 'falsetto', i.e. with his 'head voice' - beyond his 'natural range'. Actually, baritones are perfectly suited for a rock/pop branche and there are in fact nearly only baritones in this business, because they have a much stronger voice in the 'falsetto range': f. ex. Elton John, Elvis Presley, Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix... A tenor voice is a 'weaker' or better said sensible voice for the pop rock branche, but this doesn't mean that their voice is less beautiful - Jon Anderson from Yes is a tenor f. ex. Hope that helps.Thank you very much for taking your time to write that ! It was very helpful. :) M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: IF HE HITS A D4... HE IS A FUCKING TENOR!!! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!It's not just range that determines voice "type". I mean, if you have "3.5" octaves or whatnot, it's going to, by conventional definition, overlap the ranges to several "types". I can hit, (according to your notations) an A5, but this does not automatically make me a colouratura soprano, no more than hitting D2 makes me a tenor. If you have evidence to support your opinion that Freddie was unequivocally a tenor, please present it. |
john bodega 03.11.2006 11:12 |
"If you have evidence to support your opinion that Freddie was unequivocally a tenor, please present it." Don't hold your breath. |
Poo, again 03.11.2006 11:24 |
Um... I'd say he's a tenor, because he has a range of about 3 octaves. But then again, he was able to sing both baritone and tenor. |
beautifulsoup 03.11.2006 13:09 |
<b><font color=B22222>daria k. wrote: Here is a friendly answer from a person who is involved in the opera 'business' since her birth (my parents are both opera singers and I have vocal training too): Freddie was a baritone, but he often sang 'falsetto', i.e. with his 'head voice' - beyond his 'natural range'. Actually, baritones are perfectly suited for a rock/pop branche and there are in fact nearly only baritones in this business, because they have a much stronger voice in the 'falsetto range': f. ex. Elton John, Elvis Presley, Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix... A tenor voice is a 'weaker' or better said sensible voice for the pop rock branche, but this doesn't mean that their voice is less beautiful - Jon Anderson from Yes is a tenor f. ex. Hope that helps.Thank you for writing this. I sing mostly in opera/classical genre, and I'm a voice teacher. ETA: I will say, once again - it's NOT about range. It's not the only factor. |
M a t i a s M a y 03.11.2006 13:28 |
A FUCKING TENOR A FUCKING TENOR |
magicalfreddiemercury 03.11.2006 13:31 |
M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: A FUCKING TENOR A FUCKING TENORWhy does it matter to you so much? |
Legy 03.11.2006 13:37 |
I'm a musician, not a good one, but I have a good ear and I've been told by most of my colleagues that I have perfect pitch. I can say without a doubt that Freddie Mercury was a TENOR! Tenor range is between D below middle C to A above middle C. Freddie had no problem hitting these notes, in fact I've heard Freddie sing a C# above middle C. That my friends is an octave and a half note above middle C. Your talking middle Alto range. Freddie did cheat when performing live, of course he had to in order to keep his voice for the duration of a tour. |
unknown 03.11.2006 14:41 |
artemismoon wrote: I'm a musician, not a good one, but I have a good ear and I've been told by most of my colleagues that I have perfect pitch. I can say without a doubt that Freddie Mercury was a TENOR! Tenor range is between D below middle C to A above middle C. Freddie had no problem hitting these notes, in fact I've heard Freddie sing a C# above middle C. That my friends is an octave and a half note above middle C. Your talking middle Alto range. Freddie did cheat when performing live, of course he had to in order to keep his voice for the duration of a tour.Sorry, you're writing that the range of a tenor is "between D below middle C to A above middle C". But what about 'La donna è mobile' (canzone of the Duke, "Rigoletto" by Giuseppe Verdi) with an H, or 'Di quella pira' (stretta of Manrico, "Il Trovatore" by Giuseppe Verdi) with C', or 'À te o cara' with Des' (aria of Arturo, "I Puritani" by Vincenzo Bellini)... |
Legy 03.11.2006 14:51 |
<b><font color=B22222>daria k. wrote:Yes, you are right. But there are different two levels of Tenor (three counting countertenor, but I'm not counting them *Chris Martin*), at least that's what I was taught. Tenor I or Tenor II, just like Bass I or Bass II. Freddie was a Tenor II, which closely resembles a Baritone. The songs you mentioned above are written for a Tenor I.artemismoon wrote: I'm a musician, not a good one, but I have a good ear and I've been told by most of my colleagues that I have perfect pitch. I can say without a doubt that Freddie Mercury was a TENOR! Tenor range is between D below middle C to A above middle C. Freddie had no problem hitting these notes, in fact I've heard Freddie sing a C# above middle C. That my friends is an octave and a half note above middle C. Your talking middle Alto range. Freddie did cheat when performing live, of course he had to in order to keep his voice for the duration of a tour.Sorry, you're writing that the range of a tenor is "between D below middle C to A above middle C". But what about 'La donna è mobile' (canzone of the Duke, "Rigoletto" by Giuseppe Verdi) with an H, or 'Di quella pira' (stretta of Manrico, "Il Trovatore" by Giuseppe Verdi) with C', or 'À te o cara' with Des' (aria of Arturo, "I Puritani" by Vincenzo Bellini)... From Britannica: "High male voice range, extending from about the second B below middle C to the G above it. In the polyphony of the 13th–16th centuries, the tenor was the part that held (Latin, tenere: “to hold”) the cantus firmus. Tenor voices are often classified as dramatic, lyric, or heroic (heldentenor). In instrument families, tenor refers to the instrument in which the central range is roughly that of the tenor voice (e.g., tenor saxophone)." |
unknown 03.11.2006 15:04 |
Maybe you are singing in a choir, because Tenor I and Tenor II are both classifications used in the choir. The soloists do not have such classifications, at least not in the range, because 'heldentenor' f. ex. only describes the character of the voice, not the range. 'Countertenor' on the other hand is a man who sings like a woman. |
Legy 03.11.2006 15:27 |
<b><font color=B22222>daria k. wrote: Maybe you are singing in a choir, because Tenor I and Tenor II are both classifications used in the choir. The soloists do not have such classifications, at least not in the range, because 'heldentenor' f. ex. only describes the character of the voice, not the range. 'Countertenor' on the other hand is a man who sings like a woman.Well then, lets talk opera. A professional operatic tenor will typically have a range extending up to the C above middle C, which is often called the "high C". Which Freddie did sing. By definition, a Countertenor is an adult male who sings either Alto or Soprano often through use of falsetto, there are a few true Countertenors that don't use their falsetto. These are the facts. Now, if Montserrat Caballé did say that Fred was a Baritone, and I have to see proof, then she is correct since she is a classically trained musician and I only have four years of music theory under my belt. |
unknown 03.11.2006 15:33 |
I have this quote on my site: link but I have to say you a great respect, for four years you can talk really well about music :) |
Legy 03.11.2006 15:34 |
oops |
Legy 03.11.2006 15:34 |
oops |
Legy 03.11.2006 15:37 |
I have this quote on my site: link but I have to say you a great respect, for four years you can talk really well about music :)Well, and there you have it. |
deleted user 03.11.2006 15:54 |
<b><font color=B22222>daria k. wrote: I have this quote on my site: link but I have to say you a great respect, for four years you can talk really well about music :)It was your web-site ! I LOVE YOUR WEB-SITE ! Wonderful ! Ooo... I shall book-mark it, so as not to loose it again and look foolish when it's sitting right under my nose. |
unknown 03.11.2006 16:00 |
Thank you very very much - what a compliment:):):) Thanks! And I must say: it was a really interesting topic!! |
Legy 03.11.2006 16:09 |
You have great taste, and you're only 18! Wow, a truly cultured woman. |
unknown 03.11.2006 16:14 |
Wow, thank you!!!:) Now I can say that I had a fabulous day!! (as it is evening now in Vienna) :) Thanks again and good night everybody! |
Poo, again 03.11.2006 17:37 |
Ah, lovely. We're having a "moment". |
deleted user 03.11.2006 17:41 |
I'm sorry - you're a bit late for that.
The moment passed.
Also, even if you don't care or already saw it and just wish to ignore it, I answered your question about "improving" vocal range in a thread some time ago.
<font color=red>The Audacity of Charles wrote:<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: I just wonder how these guys can have vocal range covering like... several octaves, falsetto excluded. Is it due to vocal training? Does anyone know how to expand your vocal range?If you are wondering for yourself - learning how to use your head voice will probably greatly expand your range if you have not perviously been using it. By learning how to do this I've personally "unlocked" a full ovctave. If you don't have access to a music teacher, those "Day-dah" thingies that Freddie does are damn good for getting in the head voice. |
Poo, again 03.11.2006 17:46 |
Ah, thanks. I really didn't see it. |
deleted user 03.11.2006 17:51 |
^ Was the question for you ? And are you in choir ? |
Poo, again 03.11.2006 18:01 |
<font color=red>The Audacity of Charles wrote: ^ Was the question for you ? And are you in choir ?Yes, it was for me. I'm quite fascinated and interested in this. I sing myself and have a pathetic range of 2 octaves, falsetto excluded. I was just wondering if there's someway to expand my vocal range... so yes, the question was for me. And, no I'm not singing in a choir. |
saltnvinegar 03.11.2006 18:52 |
thanks for the link to your site daria k. I've just read that quote from Caballe and this line stood out for me "So, to prove a point, I got him to sing a duet with me – Violetta’s and Germont’s ‘Dite alla giovine’ from ‘La Traviata’,which I think was taped" "..which I think was taped"...has this ever been heard/leaked/clarified? |
deleted user 03.11.2006 19:18 |
^ If that was taped... wow... I'm sorry, I have to go drool in privacy now.
<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltzzz wrote: Yes, it was for me. I'm quite fascinated and interested in this. I sing myself and have a pathetic range of 2 octaves, falsetto excluded. I was just wondering if there's someway to expand my vocal range... so yes, the question was for me. And, no I'm not singing in a choir.I'm not an expert, but I've been researching like mad for the past few months... Do you know the notes of your vocal range ? If you have access to a piano or keyboard, or music programme on the computer, this would work. I mention this because if you just sing "do-re-mi-et cetera" twice, it may not be accurate - you may not be going up a whole tone, or your could be overshooting. This might interest you : link . I also find it cute since it actually mentions one "Freddie Mercury" in the part about Head Voice. I mention this again because before I figured out (and am still figuring out, really) the head voice, I had 2 octaves in my chest voice, which may sound familiar to you, if that is your situation as well. A choir teacher could help you lots, I think. Because they could actually hear you, you know. Also, two octaves would be just fine for school choir. I mean, the greatest range in one of our songs so far is 1.625 octaves, and two exhibit only one octave (I have this obsessive-compulsive thing about tabulating statistics...). If that's not an option, you might want to buy a book of music and torture someone into playing it for you. As you might tell from all that verbosity, I am also currently fascinated with singing and the voice. |
beautifulsoup 03.11.2006 20:26 |
Eck. Never mind. Sorry for the wasted space. |
Poo, again 04.11.2006 08:55 |
<font color=red>The Audacity of Charles wrote: ^ If that was taped... wow... I'm sorry, I have to go drool in privacy now.I've been playing piano for a few years now, and and I do have access to a piano, and I'd say I'm a baritone. Most of the stuff Freddie sings is at the very top of my range, but I have no trouble at all singing along to Elvis.<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltzzz wrote: Yes, it was for me. I'm quite fascinated and interested in this. I sing myself and have a pathetic range of 2 octaves, falsetto excluded. I was just wondering if there's someway to expand my vocal range... so yes, the question was for me. And, no I'm not singing in a choir.I'm not an expert, but I've been researching like mad for the past few months... Do you know the notes of your vocal range ? If you have access to a piano or keyboard, or music programme on the computer, this would work. I mention this because if you just sing "do-re-mi-et cetera" twice, it may not be accurate - you may not be going up a whole tone, or your could be overshooting. This might interest you : link . I also find it cute since it actually mentions one "Freddie Mercury" in the part about Head Voice. I mention this again because before I figured out (and am still figuring out, really) the head voice, I had 2 octaves in my chest voice, which may sound familiar to you, if that is your situation as well. A choir teacher could help you lots, I think. Because they could actually hear you, you know. Also, two octaves would be just fine for school choir. I mean, the greatest range in one of our songs so far is 1.625 octaves, and two exhibit only one octave (I have this obsessive-compulsive thing about tabulating statistics...). If that's not an option, you might want to buy a book of music and torture someone into playing it for you. As you might tell from all that verbosity, I am also currently fascinated with singing and the voice. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's really into this voice thing. We should talk on MSN sometime, if you're willing to share your wisdom. |
Bobby_brown 04.11.2006 14:45 |
Appart from Freddie´s voice, one of the most incredible voices i´ve ever heard is Rob Halford from Judas Priest on they 1982 Live in Memphis DVD. Simply amazing! Take care |
Bigbrotherbp 04.11.2006 21:25 |
magicalfreddiemercury wrote:He is angry. So that, I'm angry, too! Freddie is a FUCKING TENOR Fucker!M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: A FUCKING TENOR A FUCKING TENORWhy does it matter to you so much? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 05.11.2006 15:49 |
You people are dumb. Go listen to Bohemian Rhapsody and believe that is a baritone voice? Go listen to The Show Must Go On, or Mother Love. Montserrate Caballe only knew Freddie for a few years before his death. During the 80s, his voice did sound heavier, and more of a baritone voice. He smoked, drank, and didn't take care of his voice. And he was dying of AIDS! Obviously to me, but not obvious to some, when you are so ill and so traumatized and shocked and depressed and suffering inside, I don't think Freddie cared too much about the state of his voice! I'm sure he had other issues, like trying to survive. Sure, Freddie wanted to make an Operatic album, and he did. But the time in which Montserrate Caballle spent with him was very brief, and in one of his darkest periods of his life! I think her comments of Freddie's voice were ONLY of that time in the mid 80s. But I think Queen fans who've been fans for their entire career would disagree with Montserrate. Hypothetically, I'd like hear Montserrate's voice when she: 1. Smokes heavily. 2. Drinks heavily. 3. Gets afflicted with some fatal disease. Then I'd like to hear how she sounds. I think she'd be a wreck inside as a person, so traumatized that she'd neglect her voice. And people would then say she's an Alto or some nonsense like that. Freddie was a tenor! Ask Brian May. Ask Roger Taylor. If they say Freddie is a Baritone, then fine because they knew him best. But Montserrate is not qualified to judge Freddie's voice. I remember Brian saying of Freddie's voice on Innuendo, "his voice got better" or something like that. Why would Brian say that? What Brian most likely meant was, during the 80s, Freddie's voice declined for reasons we now know. Freddie didn't take care of his voice. But on the Innuendo Album, despite his illness, Freddie wanted the last album to be excellent. So Freddie worked at his voice, and his voice almost did reach the levels of 70s albums. Almost, not quite, but far better than most of his 80s work. So I would love to hear Montserrate comment on Innuendo. Is that a baritone voice Montserrate? Is Freddie's range, and timbre that of a baritone? I think Montserrate would have to say, NO. I think John,Brian, and Roger definitely agrees Freddie Mercury is a Tenor. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 05.11.2006 16:15 |
I've heard Bass voices. I've heard Baritones. And I've heard Tenor voices. Operatic voices. In real life. A Bass voice is extremely low. They sound like a Frogs with their deep voices. A baritone is a lot like a Bass voice, but it has more range, possibly going to an F above Middle C. A tenor's voice is different from both Bass and Baritone. They have a lighter timbre than Bass or Baritone, and their ranges are usually higher than a baritones. A top notch Tenor can hit a C note. Freddie's voice was unusual. At times in his career, he could sound almost like a soprano but he had a tenor range. At times, he could sound like a baritone, with a tenor's range. Therefore it is not easy to label Freddie. The man has a 3.5 octave range. He could do a Bass, baritone, Tenor, and at times an Alto range voice. He had that kind of range, and flexibility. That's why he could sing so many different styles of songs from slow love songs (love of my life) to metal (Sheer Heart Attack) to Pop (A kind of magic). But if we had to pick one voice, Freddie can't be a baritone. He was a tenor. Finally, I'd love for those people who claim Freddie was a baritone to produce an MP3 of a baritone who sounds like Freddie in any decade. 70s, 80s, or 90s. No baritone can sing even an 80s rock song where Freddie was at his lowest. "A kind of Magic" requires a Tenor voice. I don't know if Luciano Pavrotti could sing it well. I doubt it. No Baritone can sing any Queen song. |
deleted user 05.11.2006 16:18 |
Look, SomebodyWhoLoves - I appreciated your post and the time you took to write it. But I really don't think that calling people dumb is going to help get your point across. I did not expect to read what I did - something level-headed, I expected just shouting, and I almost didn't read your post because of that.
Since I do not know as much as I would like about classifying voices (in fact, I'm trying to learn), I can't say I agree or disagree with your views anymore than the well-written ones of someone else.
All I can say is, thank you for finally giving support to the Tenor-side of the argument, but no thank you for starting it off with name-calling.
<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltzzz wrote: I've been playing piano for a few years now, and and I do have access to a piano, and I'd say I'm a baritone. Most of the stuff Freddie sings is at the very top of my range, but I have no trouble at all singing along to Elvis. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's really into this voice thing. We should talk on MSN sometime, if you're willing to share your wisdom.Well... if I find some wisdom, I wouldn't mind sharing it at "OurLadyCharles@hotmail.com" for MSN. It would be nice to talk to someone else who wants to learn about the voice and such. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 05.11.2006 16:22 |
I'm not saying Bass or Baritone voices suck. On the contrary, I think a true Bass or Baritone voice is amazing. When you hear a Baritone sing, you really feel that voice. It's unlike anything in Pop or Rock music. Opera is just different from Pop/Rock so the two really can't be compared. |
beautifulsoup 05.11.2006 16:33 |
posting weirdness. How it ended up messed up in the chronology is beyond me. I deleted the text. |
beautifulsoup 05.11.2006 16:35 |
Hmmm. My post doesn't seem to be visible. Anyway. There are sub-categories within in all voice types. Freddie's being a Baritone *is* a possibility. Ever hear of a "baryton martin?" Check it out. If not that, then a high lyric baritone. "Spielbariton." Baritone. IMHO. |
Poo, again 06.11.2006 10:14 |
Wanna know something scary? When I record myself on my MP3 player (though the quality is quite bad) I sound EXACTLY like John Lennon. And he was a tenor. I'm not. Probably because of the bad quality of the recording. Or... I'm simply John Lennon. |
unknown 06.11.2006 11:38 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: You people are dumb. Go listen to Bohemian Rhapsody and believe that is a baritone voice? Go listen to The Show Must Go On, or Mother Love. Montserrate Caballe only knew Freddie for a few years before his death. During the 80s, his voice did sound heavier, and more of a baritone voice. He smoked, drank, and didn't take care of his voice. And he was dying of AIDS! Obviously to me, but not obvious to some, when you are so ill and so traumatized and shocked and depressed and suffering inside, I don't think Freddie cared too much about the state of his voice! I'm sure he had other issues, like trying to survive. Sure, Freddie wanted to make an Operatic album, and he did. But the time in which Montserrate Caballle spent with him was very brief, and in one of his darkest periods of his life! I think her comments of Freddie's voice were ONLY of that time in the mid 80s. But I think Queen fans who've been fans for their entire career would disagree with Montserrate. Hypothetically, I'd like hear Montserrate's voice when she: 1. Smokes heavily. 2. Drinks heavily. 3. Gets afflicted with some fatal disease. Then I'd like to hear how she sounds. I think she'd be a wreck inside as a person, so traumatized that she'd neglect her voice. And people would then say she's an Alto or some nonsense like that. Freddie was a tenor! Ask Brian May. Ask Roger Taylor. If they say Freddie is a Baritone, then fine because they knew him best. But Montserrate is not qualified to judge Freddie's voice. I remember Brian saying of Freddie's voice on Innuendo, "his voice got better" or something like that. Why would Brian say that? What Brian most likely meant was, during the 80s, Freddie's voice declined for reasons we now know. Freddie didn't take care of his voice. But on the Innuendo Album, despite his illness, Freddie wanted the last album to be excellent. So Freddie worked at his voice, and his voice almost did reach the levels of 70s albums. Almost, not quite, but far better than most of his 80s work. So I would love to hear Montserrate comment on Innuendo. Is that a baritone voice Montserrate? Is Freddie's range, and timbre that of a baritone? I think Montserrate would have to say, NO. I think John,Brian, and Roger definitely agrees Freddie Mercury is a Tenor.It is so pity that you don't believe in expert's opinion - because you write that Montserrat is not qualified to answer if Freddie Mercury was a tenor or baritone. Here is a friendly and delicate attempt to explain it to you: if you are interested in the human voice there is so much literature about it; but I'd like to tell you that the human voice is a very complex instrument; f.ex. not only the range matters in the description of a voice, but also the technique, the character or better said the colour of it, its anatomy and so much more, f.ex. how your 'respiring techinque' is developed - and in fact this 'respiring technique' is - you can say - one of the most important things, because with the help of it you can actually reach and hold the notes. You mentioned a particular example, i.e. that Freddie sounds in Bohemian Rhapsody like a tenor; you're partly right because Freddie actually sings in this song mostly in the range of a tenor, but to do it he has to sing it with a different tecnique to reach the notes - this technique is called 'falsetto' or to say it more specifically: Freddie is not singing with his chest voice but with his head voice - also some terms to describe the voice. But as I said before there are many specific books about the human voice and so many related topics that it is not easy to explain it in one paragraph - not even a couple of sites would do it. If you are interested just read and a whole new facette of the world or at least of the music world will open to you:) |
unknown 06.11.2006 11:54 |
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Legy 06.11.2006 12:06 |
Well, I went on Freddie Mercury listing rampage this weekend, which to tell you the truth, I really needed it! LOL! I listened to ANATO in 5.1 at 90 dB (and various other albums through out his career) to get the actual full effect and so I could correctly classify Freddie's vocal range, and I can tell you, Freddie is a Choral Tenor I/ Operatic Baritone. Note, not all Choral Tenors are True Tenors. I sang Tenor I, but my professor said I was a Bariten (her words). A mix between a baritone and a tenor. For some unknown reason, Freddie was able to sing higher notes later in his life, which is unheard of, especially when you factor in HIV/AIDS. Freddie did have a higher range than most Baritones, which is where some of the confusion comes in. Also, Freddie had the ability to switch between chest voice and his falsetto without a listener (untrained ears) being able to notice, one of my vocal coaches from my singing days was able to do this. During ANATO, Freddie used his falsetto quite often. BoRap was a song where he constantly switched from his chest voice to falsetto. I also listened to Innuendo, and was amazed that Freddie sang higher notes in his chest voice more on Innuendo than ANATO, the fact that this was late in his life and he was very ill just hit me. I remember Brian mentioning this in one of his interviews. TSMGO is an amazing song and one should listen to it to get a full grasp of Freddie's range, which no matter how you classify it, was an amazing instrument with amazing range. FYI, Lennon was a Baritone. |
Sebastian 06.11.2006 13:24 |
> Montserrate Caballe only knew Freddie for a few years before his death. Yet she knows what she's talking about. Still I disagree with her now, though I didn't do it before. > Freddie was a tenor! Ask Brian May. Ask Roger Taylor. Neither Brian nor Roger are experts in vocal classification. Montserrat knows much better than they do. > If they say Freddie is a Baritone, then fine because they knew him best. But Montserrate is not qualified to judge Freddie's voice. Bollocks: just because they knew him best? Then why don't we ask his cats to see what do they say? > I remember Brian saying of Freddie's voice on Innuendo, "his voice got better" or something like that. Why would Brian say that? Because it was true and because even if it wasn't, he needed to promote the album. As I said before: some baritones can hit very high notes the same way some tenors can hit low F and the same way Michael Jackson could do low A (110 Hz). |
Legy 06.11.2006 13:29 |
=D |
unknown 06.11.2006 13:44 |
Sorry, I have to agree with Sebastian, artemismoon. Speaking of your post, artemismoon: To be 100%ly sure I've asked my parents who are opera singers about the terms Choral Tenor etc.: A choral tenor is a classification used only in a choir, so your teacher was very likely right; in the choir you might sing choral tenor I, but actually, as a soloist, you might be very likely a baritone. |
unknown 06.11.2006 13:53 |
:) |
Legy 06.11.2006 14:00 |
Yes ma'am you correct. I was told that my range was higher than most Baritones, that's why I sang Tenor I in High School and in College. When performing for State or UIL (Texas State Competitions), I always sang Baritone. I can still sing if I have to, I usually start straining around B above middle C, and I can also sing a low Eb. I had a great voice, KIDS, DON'T SMOKE! |
unknown 06.11.2006 14:05 |
I believe you:) |
SomebodyWhoLoves 06.11.2006 20:35 |
While the collection of nitwits can agree all they want, all night if you want to, it doesn't make a difference. Freddie Mercury was a Tenor. Montserrate knows more about music than Brian FUCKING May and Roger Taylor? HAHAHAHA. That made me laugh! It really did. Brian May, Roger Taylor, John Deacon, and of course Freddie Mercury are musical geniuses. Just because Montserrate who sings opera does not make her more of an expert than the members of Queen. Brian, Roger, John and Freddie were MUSICIANS. Not just any musician who teaches music classes, or read some books about music in Music Theory class. Each one of them, know more about music than all of us combined + Montserrate. LOL. This is why I say you guys are idiots. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 06.11.2006 20:39 |
Here's an idea: Why don't you write a Letter to Brian May and ask his opinion. If he says Freddie was a Baritone, then fine. I'm wrong. Until then, this discussion is moronic. |
beautifulsoup 06.11.2006 20:54 |
Having fun, are we? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 06.11.2006 21:00 |
A little bit. Listen up dolts. The members of Queen are today's Mozart, Beethoven, Bach. They are musical geniuses. Queen songs are written for the Tenor voice. Whip out a music sheet, and try to argue that the lead and background voices are not for Tenor voice. About Bohemian Rhapsody: Freddie uses falsetto in some notes, but this is for the nuance he wanted. The song requires a gentle soft tone. When he sings Mama, that is not falsetto. Mama is the G above middle C, and he sings it without much effort. Go back and study the songs in the album Queen II. Freddie does not sing much in falsetto there, and most of the songs there are higher than Bohemian Rhapsody. Anyone who claims that the 70s Queen album was sung by a Baritone is seriously stupid. |
deleted user 06.11.2006 22:49 |
I the name-calling is just childish and uncalled for and can only hurt your argument - though I suppose I have to summon up all my unbiasedness to come to terms with the fact that you simply don't have to be polite to be correct. You don't make it easy. --- Yes, Brian and Roger and John are MUSICIANS, who wrote/are writing music. But this doesn't automatically mean they would know more than her about these "voice types" that I for one am curious about. Ms. Caballé works in a field where what "type" of voice you have is a little more significant than in rock and roll - since when you write your own songs (or they are written with you in mind), you don't need to know if the person is a tenor or bass or castrato. They also don't even need to know how to read music. I wouldn't mind having her opinion on his voice from BEFORE she knew him. I think it would be fair to say Queen songs were written for the "Freddie voice" (most of the time). NOW - before you call me a ninny, I DO understand the part about Freddie not "taking care of" his voice. I can certainly agree with that - his voice in the 80's was different than in the 70's. He could hit some great high notes, and the same on the low end. And he sounded much more strained to "get up there" in the 80's. His voice doesn't sound like the opera Tenors OR Baritones I've heard. Then again, he wasn't singing opera - so I persoanlly, can't compare. CHANGE : I'm writing a new post at this time... |
john bodega 07.11.2006 02:25 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: This is why I say you guys are idiots.This is high comedy coming from a guy who accused women of enjoying being dominated sexually. What an idiot. |
The Real Wizard 07.11.2006 11:25 |
Zebonka12 wrote:Hahaha... oh yeah, I remember that! Memories, oh memories.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: This is why I say you guys are idiots.This is high comedy coming from a guy who accused women of enjoying being dominated sexually. What an idiot. |
Poo, again 07.11.2006 14:44 |
I have to say SomebodyWhoLoves' arguments are quite shitty. |
deleted user 07.11.2006 15:31 |
Alright... So... I was sick today and had to do something to keep me awake while everyone else I know is at school or in a different time zone. ... I've been looking at these two lists... link link They appear to be off Wikipedia. But they're all I keep finding anywhere. So I gave up looking for another source. First : Freddie is on the Tenor list (along with Brian May). I decided to look at both lists to see a bunch of different people I might be able to compare... Baritones included, Ian Anderson, that Michael Bublé fellow that my mother likes, Gerard Butler (Phantom of the Opera, movie version), Elvis gets a note that says "call him a high baritone"... Paul McCartney is on both lists. So is Frank Sinatra. I get the impression that the line between Tenor and Baritone may be mushy as mashed potatoes. I mean, looking here (and hoping it's right) : link He could go above what's requested of the Tenors, and below the baritones, although it's only about a note for each in some cases. -- -- Verdi baritone A more specialized voice category, Verdi baritone refers to a voice capable of singing consistently and with ease in the highest part of the baritone range, sometimes even up to the A natural above middle C. The Martin baritone A lighter, almost tenor-like voice developed at the Opéra Comique. Heldentenor: the German equivalent of the tenore drammatico, however with a more baritonal quality; the typical Wagnerian protagonist Both baritone-based and tenor-based singers can possess the wide-ranged and effective falsetto needed to produce the alto and soprano ranges. ... Looking at the roles claimed for tenor and baritone, some appear on both lists. ----------------------- Koloraturheldentenorbariton ^ How does that sound ? I don't know German, so consider it a dandy cut-and-paste job. |
unknown 07.11.2006 17:00 |
which brings us sadly to the beginning... |
Legy 07.11.2006 17:26 |
The confusion comes from this, Choral Tenor and Operatic Tenor. They're different, how so you may ask. Well a Choral Tenors range does not have to be that of an operatic tenor for two reasons, they are called Altos and Sopranos. An Operatic Tenor does have to hit those higher notes, and when most Choral Tenors try, they usually fail. Don't believe everything that's on wikipedia, some of their facts are wrong. Look up Freddie Mercury on wikipedia and you'll see him classified as a Tenor, but when you click on the reference, #9, you see that Andrés E. Guazzelli classifies him as a Baritone. link "But Freddie was actually a baritone. His lowest range, (below C2), it's not a tenor tessitura. He was a light baritone, who was actually singing in tenor's range. His passagio zone was, in fact, more similar to tenor's than a baritone's." link And that's it for me. |
kohuept 07.11.2006 19:30 |
It would seem that classification is less dependant on what you CAN/DO sing and more dependant on what your voice is most suited to sing. I agreee that most Queen songs are written for a tenor voice and, since Freddie was a fantastic pop vocalist, he could sing all of them well. When it came to Freddie singing 'seriously' - ie Barcelona, he would sound a little different. Think of it this way: If Freddie had to sing, consistantly and for an extended period of time, Funny How Love Is, Radio Ga Ga, or I'm Going Slightly Mad, which do you think he would sound best at? ...don't go all idolistic and say something about how Freddie sounds fantastic all of the time no matter what he is doing. |
M a t i a s M a y 07.11.2006 23:50 |
Sebastian wrote: Fred hit those notes with head voice, since he was a baritone. One with a large range, but a baritone after all.Actually, you can't hit those high notes without head voice. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 08.11.2006 03:11 |
kohuept wrote: It would seem that classification is less dependant on what you CAN/DO sing and more dependant on what your voice is most suited to sing. I agreee that most Queen songs are written for a tenor voice and, since Freddie was a fantastic pop vocalist, he could sing all of them well. When it came to Freddie singing 'seriously' - ie Barcelona, he would sound a little different. Think of it this way: If Freddie had to sing, consistantly and for an extended period of time, Funny How Love Is, Radio Ga Ga, or I'm Going Slightly Mad, which do you think he would sound best at? ...don't go all idolistic and say something about how Freddie sounds fantastic all of the time no matter what he is doing.No Tenor can sing these songs even if they are suited for him day after day. Operatic singers can because of their training, and also because of the operatic voice constricts the sounds Opera singers make. Freddie Mercury is a Tenor. A Tenor is defined by the natural range of a singer's voice. Freddie's natural range was Tenor range. but it doesn't mean he could sing day after day Queen songs. No human can. Mariah Carey cannot sing her songs day after day unless she was careful not to overexert her voice. Are you now going to classify her as an Alto? How many times do you read a pop or rock singer who is vocally exhausted, and has to cancel concerts? This is common. Opera is different of course for the reasons mentioned. Freddie was a natural Tenor, and these people who try to classify him as some sort of baritone with a huge range simply because Freddie could REACH low notes usually reserved for a Baritone is wrong. Most Tenors do not have 3.5 octave range, and can't hit the low notes Freddie could. But this doesn't mean Freddie is a baritone. No baritone can sing Bohemian Rhapsody in the way Freddie did. The voice Freddie used to record BohRhap was a light Tenor's voice. This was the voice he had throughout the 70s. Only in the 80s did his tone change, but that was because he had HIV/AIDS, and smoked, drank, did all kinds of things that affected his voice. In the Innuendo Album, we however see Freddie's real voice again despite his illness. A baritone can NEVER sound like a light Tenor as Freddie did. However, a tenor, if he has a wide range, can reach baritone low notes. |
kohuept 08.11.2006 13:35 |
...he would last longer singing I'm Going Slightly Mad. |
The King Of Rhye 21.11.2006 07:48 |
For what it's worth I distinctly remember reading somewhere (Peter Freestone aka Pheobe's book maybe?) that some of the guest singers at the FM Tribute Concert were suprised to learn they had to sing lower than they were accustomed to...... At any rate Freddie certainly had a heck of a range! |
Poo, again 21.11.2006 10:25 |
I still haven't really figured out what head voice is. |
Fur 21.11.2006 15:55 |
I find this such an interesting topic that it's got me to finally post a message! I can't say I know too much about singing, but I am a musician. In my opinion, Freddie was naturally a baritone, and to sing the vast majority of Queen songs he was using his voice unnaturally for the higher notes and thus may have sounded like a tenor. This corresponds to either a noticeably nasal tone for softer songs (e.g. In Only Seven Days) or the rasping sound when he shouted it out for heavier songs (e.g. Death on Two Legs). In the 80s he seemed to lose the ability to use a more nasal tone. In both cases though, even though it was unnatural it still sounded great because of Freddie's amazing voice. Also note that, for the most part, he sounded completely different when he was talking normally to when he was singing. I think that if you're a natural tenor, your speaking voice is noticeably higher than a baritone's or bass. For songs when he did sing lower (e.g. I'm Going Slightly Mad or some Barcelona stuff), he sounds much more like he did when he spoke. |
Legy 22.11.2006 12:14 |
Fur wrote: I find this such an interesting topic that it's got me to finally post a message! I can't say I know too much about singing, but I am a musician. In my opinion, Freddie was naturally a baritone, and to sing the vast majority of Queen songs he was using his voice unnaturally for the higher notes and thus may have sounded like a tenor. This corresponds to either a noticeably nasal tone for softer songs (e.g. In Only Seven Days) or the rasping sound when he shouted it out for heavier songs (e.g. Death on Two Legs). In the 80s he seemed to lose the ability to use a more nasal tone. In both cases though, even though it was unnatural it still sounded great because of Freddie's amazing voice. Also note that, for the most part, he sounded completely different when he was talking normally to when he was singing. I think that if you're a natural tenor, your speaking voice is noticeably higher than a baritone's or bass. For songs when he did sing lower (e.g. I'm Going Slightly Mad or some Barcelona stuff), he sounds much more like he did when he spoke.Good post, but I don't agree with "if you're a natural tenor, your speaking voice is noticeably higher than a baritone's or bass". A bass yes, but a baritone no. I've listened to several interviews with Plácido Domingo and Luciano Pavarotti and you really can't tell they are tenors by their speaking voice alone. |
inmydefence 23.11.2006 06:47 |
yes freddie was a baritone. i don't see why certain people are screaming expletives that he's a F-ing tenor!? like it matters? i too asked this question to my voice coach and he said, from listening to freddies voice its sometimes hard to classify his "natural range" because he used to used to sing out of his natural range so often! but this, if u look, is usually only in the studio.. where if ur voice breaks you can redo a part. in the earlier days freddies art was blending his falsetto beautifully with his full voice (i.e. ablum version of love of my life) which makes the high note sound very soft. the way i find is best to tell if someone is a tenor is to listen to them live... if they can sing high up A sharp (below C4) softly with feeling then they're probably a tenor (a shining example of this is lady in red live "this beauty by my side")! freddie couldn't. it doesn't make him a bad singer though! in fact it proves how good he was that people even need to ask this question! its really hard to get your head round this unless you actually sing yourself! |
AndresGuazzelli 24.11.2006 16:24 |
I commented on this on my website, but I guess I can shoot a couple of lines here. Freddie, IMO, is a baritone. As some has already stated, it's not much about range, but vocal colour, where your passaggio is, and specially, the lower notes. I've known LOTS of Baritones who can sing above that Middle A (two notes short of the tenor High C), which is often the top notes for baritones, but I'm yet to find one who can sing as low as low F as Freddie did. Freddie had a vocal colour of a baritone, ergo, he's a baritone. But he had an unusually large range, and an exceptional high range, probably due to practice, and the preternatural flexibility of his vocal folds, and how developed were his larynxeal muscles. Freddie, IMO, is a baritone (a light one), who sang his entire life in a baritonish/tenorish range (because, let's be real... the only diference between their ranges is a couple of notes here and there). But, on the lower notes (below Low C), he was most comfourtable than most tenors are. Check Ride the Wild Wind, Slightly Mad, The Golden Boy, or Ensueño. Ensueño is a living proof (living?? lol) of his baritonic qualities :) link Best regards! A. |
~im a fool~ 24.11.2006 17:44 |
does it really matter now? i mean freddie is freddie there is no label for him. so forget it. |
deleted user 24.11.2006 17:58 |
^ It would help me understand my own voice. Like why scientists study dead critters - to better understand ourselves. All this talk HAS helped me. I don't know where I fall on the scale of things, and by listening to how voices are "classified" - especially a voice that is very familiar to me, it helps me get a better feel of things. |
~im a fool~ 24.11.2006 18:21 |
those poor critters |
sparrow 21754 24.11.2006 22:22 |
:-/ if i told anyone my range, they wouldnt believe me so like freddie i dont have one *stomps off* its hard to say, i think hes a healthy mix of both and i believe hes too rare of a voice to really classify, and really classificatiosn of voices kinda teathers the talent dont you think? |
M a t i a s M a y 25.11.2006 03:30 |
YES FREDDIE IS A BARITONE BRIAN IS A MIDGET ROGER IS A NIGGER AND JOHN IS NOT BALD! Have a nice day, people! =) |
The Real Wizard 25.11.2006 20:57 |
And... "M a t i a s M a y" is a kind, open-minded, tolerant, and understanding person. |
deleted user 25.11.2006 21:06 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: And... "M a t i a s M a y" is a kind, open-minded, tolerant, and understanding person.You just made my day. :) |
~im a fool~ 25.11.2006 21:58 |
lmao |
M a t i a s M a y 25.11.2006 23:57 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: And... "M a t i a s M a y" is a kind, open-minded, tolerant, and understanding person.and you're a cunt, open-assed |
john bodega 26.11.2006 00:22 |
M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote:Damn. I haven't seen a comeback like that since Elvis in '68.Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: And... "M a t i a s M a y" is a kind, open-minded, tolerant, and understanding person.and you're a cunt, open-assed But seriously.... people are arguing about this topic so badly, one would think that the subject matter actually had some bearing on anything. Who gives a flying *fuck* what he was? This tenor/baritone argument is not a matter of opinion - if there is actually a *SINGLE* definition for either of those terms, then there is no discussion. Half of the people in here are wrong. Suffice to say, if y'all are happy to trudge around in your own filth (figuratively speaking) then by all means do... I'm just not entirely sure why certain people in here (hyuk hyuk) are taking it so hard. Anyone with a brain stem probably would've run off, gone and found the *incontrovertible* meaning of the words 'baritone' and 'tenor', applied them to Freddie's voice, and been off by now. Sheesh! |
Gregsynth 18.11.2009 02:07 |
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Gregsynth 05.01.2010 15:03 |
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BradMay 09.07.2013 04:08 |
Freddie was a bariton. (And you can hear that quite well, in my opinion... In the early 70s he sounded like a Tenor, in the late 80s/early 90s he sounded like a tenor-ish singer, in the mid 80s he sounded like a bariton) Listen to him sing on stuff like Bycicle Race (those harmonys go down to G2s and they sound pretty strong) he also sings a few A2s on I'm Going Slightly mad (And they sound pretty strong) His highest full voiced note was a F5 on All Gods People. Its rubbish that people say that a bariton cant ever hit C5s... When i do some singing myself it depends on it, sometimes i cant go higher than an A4 before having to switch to falsetto/headvoice. But there are also some times in wich i can hit C5s and D5s without real big problems (Yeah, they tend to sound a bit screamy, but still) And, a few days a go i nailed the Innuendo Eb5(And that was in my chest voice). So its not true that baritons cant have big ranges/cant sing high notes. What made Freddie so unique was his vocal abbilities, and the timbre of his voice, he wasnt exactly a bariton, but he wasnt exactly a tenor either, it depends on the era. On the Barcelona album he sounds like a full blown Bariton to me. But on Innuendo he sounds like a Tehor (especially on Days Of Our Lives and I Cant Live With You) |