| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 20.10.2006 00:44 |
The key to Queen's greatness as a band involves the fact that Freddie Mercury was perhaps the only hard rock star who ever really had a sense of rhythm. Most hard rock and heavy metal music, if you listen to it, drones on and on, and there is no beat to it. If Freddie Mercury had not been in a member of the band, I am pretty sure that the other three would not have been an exception to this rule. On the other hand, as can be seen in footage from the making of “One Vision,” Freddie always tried to get Brian and Roger to make use syncopation. Listen to any live version of “Another One Bites the Dust,” and you will see Mercury improvising various rhythmic sequences in a spontaneous manner that someone like Robert Plant or Roger Daltry could never grasp. Queen music, unlike The Who and Led Zeppelin music, has a rhythmic characteristic more similar to “black” music. Maybe Freddie Mercury learned this from living in Africa. I want to hear some intelligent responses to this post. In other words, do not try to dismiss this argument in two or three sentences. If you do not agree with me, then explain your opinion in a detailed way. |
| max_fast 20.10.2006 03:04 |
In my opinion Freddie Mercury did not live long enough in Africa. Can't be a reason for that. And what you call black influences started with the use of synthesizers and Mack as producer. Before Freddie Mercury was more into classical arrangements. And I think that John Deacon was also a bigger influence than most people think. |
| The Real Wizard 20.10.2006 03:52 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: I want to hear some intelligent responses to this post. In other words, do not try to dismiss this argument in two or three sentences. If you do not agree with me, then explain your opinion in a detailed way.You wrote this little disclaimer as if the preceding words had some intellectual merit. They were nothing more than closed-minded pro-Freddie drivel. Your post boasts that no rock musician other than Freddie or band other than Queen had a sense of rhythm, that Brian/Roger/John would have had no sense of beat without Freddie, that no other rock singer (even including Plant and Daltrey) could improvise well (as if your idea of improvisation is a required element of being a great singer), and that Led Zeppelin and The Who are somehow lacking because they didn't explore "black" music. To use the word "ignorance" to describe your post would be such a vast understatement. You are clearly set in your ways (look at your alias, for crying out loud!), and appear to have no interest in expanding your horizons to understand the brilliance of singers other than Freddie. All you seem to want to do in this topic is argue with people to somehow validate your narrow-minded musical tastes. Of course tastes vary, but from what you've put forth, you really don't seem to have much taste at all. You just like one singer. All I can hope is that maybe you will learn to open-mindedly listen to other rock bands and come to appreciate them and their contributions to rock music. I think Freddie would be horrified to know that there are people who discredit all other rock musicians on his behalf. |
| Bohemian Rahpsody 20.10.2006 09:15 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:All I can hope is that maybe you will learn to open-mindedly listen to other rock bands and come to appreciate them and their contributions to rock music. |
| Bohemian Rahpsody 20.10.2006 09:17 |
Sorry about messing up the quote system, it's a first for me. B.R |
| Donna13 20.10.2006 09:28 |
I can't go into detail. Sorry. It is not my personality. All I can say is that the key to the greatness of Queen was the collaboration between 4 extremely talented individuals. The miraculous combination of talent is what did it. It was similar to a chemical reaction. |
| thomasquinn 32989 20.10.2006 10:48 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Amen.Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: I want to hear some intelligent responses to this post. In other words, do not try to dismiss this argument in two or three sentences. If you do not agree with me, then explain your opinion in a detailed way.You wrote this little disclaimer as if the preceding words had some intellectual merit. They were nothing more than closed-minded pro-Freddie drivel. Your post boasts that no rock musician other than Freddie or band other than Queen had a sense of rhythm, that Brian/Roger/John would have had no sense of beat without Freddie, that no other rock singer (even including Plant and Daltrey) could improvise well (as if your idea of improvisation is a required element of being a great singer), and that Led Zeppelin and The Who are somehow lacking because they didn't explore "black" music. To use the word "ignorance" to describe your post would be such a vast understatement. You are clearly set in your ways (look at your alias, for crying out loud!), and appear to have no interest in expanding your horizons to understand the brilliance of singers other than Freddie. All you seem to want to do in this topic is argue with people to somehow validate your narrow-minded musical tastes. Of course tastes vary, but from what you've put forth, you really don't seem to have much taste at all. You just like one singer. All I can hope is that maybe you will learn to open-mindedly listen to other rock bands and come to appreciate them and their contributions to rock music. I think Freddie would be horrified to know that there are people who discredit all other rock musicians on his behalf. |
| carboengine 20.10.2006 11:42 |
Donna13 wrote: I can't go into detail. Sorry. It is not my personality. All I can say is that the key to the greatness of Queen was the collaboration between 4 extremely talented individuals. The miraculous combination of talent is what did it. It was similar to a chemical reaction.Short and sweet, and I agree! |
| john bodega 20.10.2006 12:15 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: A lot of crap.You say we're not allowed to dismiss your argument in one or two sentences? I'm afraid that's all one would need. For you to tell us that either The Who or Led Zeppelin are rhythmically deficient is *insane*; it shows you've probably listened to "Rock and Roll" and "My Generation", and thats it. |
| Sebastian 20.10.2006 13:28 |
As much as his directing during 'One Vision' showed (part of) his craftsmanship, it's not Pandora's box either ... it doesn't mean he was the only person in the world who used syncopations. |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 20.10.2006 14:17 |
On one hand, I am glad that this exciting topic has generated some interest. On the other hand, I am a little disappointed by the responses here. The only good response came from Sir G, but even he did not really address my points. To simply call someone else’s point of view “drivel” is not a very good response. What I was hoping for was a detailed explanation of why you disagree with my argument, rather than personal attacks. For instance, do you really believe that hard rock in general is characterized by complex rhythmic elements? And would you not have to agree that rhythm is a very important aspect of music in general? The fundamental problem that I see in some of the above posts, I think, involves a refusal to acknowledge "black" music. I mean, someone above was saying that they were being open-minded by listening to The Who or Led Zeppelin. But what about black forms of music, like hip hop, disco and even Doo Wop? How many of you will be open-minded enough to appreciate the origins of rock music? (Honestly, I feel like people in general refuse to credit black Americans with the invention of rock music back in the 1950s.) I am not arguing here that The Who and Led Zeppelin suck. On the contrary, they may have some strong guitar parts or melodies here and there. On the other hand, their rhythm tends to drone on in a way that is less musically complex from what you find in black styles of music. Listen to African drum music or early jazz, for instance, and you will see what I am talking about. Again, I feel like a lot of British musicians do not really understand syncopation. I am not saying that they do not write great melodies. I am only saying that their sense of rhythm is somewhat inferior compared with what you find in more black genres. Like I said, Freddie Mercury understood rhythm in a way that other hard rock stars do not. I mean, when "Another One Bites the Dust" came out, many black American listeners (who are unfamiliar with heavy metal) believed this to be a black group! Now let me ask you, would anyone mistake Led Zeppelin or the Who for anything else but white? No Way! Now, you might try to argue that John Deacon is credited with "Another Bites the Dust." On the other hand, it is also well documented that he often received huge amounts of help from Freddie. As the singer, Freddie basically set the rhythm for the group. Just watching live versions of “Another One Bites the Dust,” you can see how brilliant and original Freddie was with melody. While Deacon is back there playing his famous riff over and over again, Freddie is improvising brilliant sequences off the top of his head. Another great example is “Under Pressure.” I mean the level of syncopation that you find on Freddie’s tracks is on the level what you might expect from a black musician. The video showing the making of “One Vision” further illustrates Freddie’s extraordinary sense of rhythm. Without Freddie Mercury the rest of the band would have focused on "white blues." It is time that people start to credit Queen as the first hard rock band to really use black rhythmic elements. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 20.10.2006 15:27 |
So, your whole argument about the Key to Queen's Greatness is that they used black rhythms? You've got a valid point here, but it's dangerous to say that the key to anything is one thing and one thing only. One thing that made Queen unique as a group is their variety. Variety is the key here, and variety can cover a lot of different things. Queen music had something for everybody. Freddie was an amazing vocalist who loved to shake things up when he could, which I understand made for some great live shows. Brian on the guitar was great both melodically and in chord structure (have you ever actually listened to his solo stuff?). Roger and John were both innovative in their own ways, laying down the framework and structure that the songs were built on, and never afraid to do things that weren't in their "genre". No two Queen albums sound the same, and even within one album you'll have so much song variety that you never ever get bored. Listening to ANATO is a true treat, because you never know where the music is going. That's what made Queen so great, they were all great musicians, and put them together and they formed an unstopable team. They never became static and let their music get typical or boring. Obviously Bo Rhap is an example of their variety, but I personaly prefer '39, which is heavy folk sounding, as compared to something like Seven Seas of Rhye or Tie Your Mother Down which were straight up, pulse pounding rock. Yes, rhythm is vital to music, but it's not everything. The very fact that Freddie, Brian, Roger and John could improvise (though granted some were better than others) show their caliber as musicians. Put an album together with varied rhythm on all of the songs, and it can still be very boring. There is more to music than rhythm, like melody and harmony, tempo and tempo changes, and of course, the words. I'm not trying to discredit what you are saying about rhythm here...I'm just trying to say that there is so much more to Queen than just Freddie and his sense of rhythm. Give it another go, listening for the overall picture of every song, not just the rhythm, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what you hear. |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 20.10.2006 15:57 |
Hi History Girl, Great to hear your intelligent ideas here. You see everyone, that was the type of response I was hoping for. Although we do not agree on everything, she makes good points. |
| The Real Wizard 20.10.2006 16:36 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: The only good response came from Sir G, but even he did not really address my points. To simply call someone else’s point of view “drivel” is not a very good response. What I was hoping for was a detailed explanation of why you disagree with my argument, rather than personal attacks.I didn't attack you. I basically paraphrased what you said in a neutral way. I said it exactly like it is. It's not my fault if you took the truth personally. Your initial post basically proclaimed that every rock musician besides Freddie Mercury sucks, so even if I provide examples to suggest the contrary, you will just find a way to cut them to shreds. If you feel your post is a well-informed one, that means you have listened to all of the other rock bands to great depths and are indeed convinced that they all "drone on and on". So really, until you show a shred of open-mindedness towards other rock musicians (which you clearly have not done to this point), then I'm not sure what there is to discuss with you. |
| brENsKi 20.10.2006 16:37 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever - droned.... Now, you might try to argue that John Deacon is credited with "Another Bites the Dust." On the other hand, it is also well documented that he often received huge amounts of help from Freddie. As the singer, Freddie basically set the rhythm for the group. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ what complete an utter shite...i'm sorry...but if you are going to cite freddie as some great pionere is complete bollox...especially when you use this song as a reference point...AOBTD is so clearly stolen from "Chic's Good Times" and "Rapper's Delight"...get a life and stop trying to start pointless arguments now if you had cited "side black of queen II" - then i would be there with you...but don't go on about rythym - when plagiarism is the order of the day |
| teleman 20.10.2006 16:48 |
Many classic rock bands used "Black" music as a foundation. Rock and Roll is essentially "Black" music. The Rolling Stones were considered British R&B when they started out. They took their name from a Muddy Waters song(doesn't get much "Blacker" than Muddy Waters). If you want to consider dabbling in Funk/Disco the Stones did 'Miss You' before Queeen did Another One Bites The Dust, touched on Reggae on 1975's 'Black and Blue' and if you listen closely you'll hear elements of Funk/Soul/DooWop song structures and melody in their catalogue. The Stones primarily delved into American music but with a distinctly English touch. Listen to Zeppelin's 1973 song 'The Crunge' with it's funky 9/8 groove, taking a twist on James Brown, long before Queen dabbled in "Black" music. Led Zep also explored American blues(black music), British folk, Arabic/Middle Eastern music etc. If you want to talk about white musicians seriously exploring "Black" music from Africa then how 'bout Peter Gabriel. From Genesis' prog rock to the African influenced 'Rhythm Of The Heat' or 'Biko'. Not to mention introducing the white world to Senegal's Youssou N'Dour. There are so many other examples. In your myopic desire to dismiss all other musicians so that you can deify Freddie I'd suggest you accept Freddie as the brilliant creative man he was and allow yourself to enjoy some other music in your life. You'll be richer for the experience. |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 21.10.2006 15:18 |
I am glad to see that there are some new responses to my post. On the other hand, I feel like this topic deserves more thought than some of the more trivial threads that are up there now. Someone was saying in one of the above posts that Led Zeppelin had previously used black elements in at least one of their songs. They also call them selves a “blues band.” But there is something fundamentally un-black about Led Zeppelin. In fact, although they may claim to have been influenced by black music, I would argue that Led Zeppelin literally represents the antithesis of black music. For instance, while black music is soulful and spiritual in nature, Led Zeppelin music has none of these qualities. On the contrary, what it has is a lead singer with a screechy, high voice very characteristic of a white dude. On the other hand, unlike Robert Plant (and Mick Jagger, for that matter), Freddie Mercury really did have a soulful element in his singing. Obviously, all we have to do is listen to “Somebody to Love” or “Under Pressure,” for instance, to see this. However, one thing that I really like about Freddie Mercury is that he does not try too hard to sound black. I mean, I get really annoyed when I hear Sting trying to sound like some guy from Jamaica. It is pretty ridiculous for him to try to deny the fact that he is a white dude from England. While we are on the subject of Led Zeppelin, another thing I love about Queen is the way that the band uses Eastern elements. With Led Zeppelin, you feel like they are trying really hard to be “Exotic” or “Eastern.” However, with Queen, because of Freddie Mercury’s Indian roots, I feel like there is an inherent Eastern quality, rather than something that is forced. Another one of the above responses suggested that the Rolling Stones had succeeded in capturing the essence of black music. I cannot disagree more. The problem with the Rolling Stones is that, although they probably did try to sound black, their stuff is just way too repetitive. Although it may capture black music at its worst, it certainly does not seem to incorporate any kind of rhythmic variation. Instead, what you usually have is some guitar riff play again and again and again. For instance, in the song “I Can’t Get No Satisfaction,” what you hear are those same seven notes repeated about 500 times. Give me a break! If you listen to early jazz music or to African drum music, it is not comprised of the same sequence of five notes repeated over and over and over again until you want to scream. Instead, the music incorporates continual variations in rhythm. Furthermore, this is exactly what Queen music does! Listen to “Under Pressure,” and tell me how many times you hear that very catchy bass line. The answer: Only a few times. Fabulous! If only the Rolling Stones could learn that lesson. |
| teleman 21.10.2006 16:42 |
You ask people to give thoughtful responses to your original post yet you don't make an effort to actuially read them nor do you take the time to put some real thought into the responses. Okay Freddie is God and the greatest musician ever. Freddie is a better singer than Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin and Pavarotti combined. Freddie's a better composer than Mozart, Ellington, Stravinsky and Monk combined. My god Freddie was a more talented guitarist than Segovia, Reinhardt, Kessel, Beck, Clapton, Gilmour and May. Freddie was funkier than James Brown, George Clinton and Prince. Freddie's music was more African than Ali Farke Toure, Femi Kuti, Kine Lam, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, King Sunny Ade, Angelique Kidjo, Kanda Bongo Man and Papa Wemba combined. Freddie found a vaccine for polio, discovered insulin and invented the wheel. |
| brENsKi 21.10.2006 17:28 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: I am glad to see that there are some new responses to my post. [SNIP!!!] Fabulous! If only the Rolling Stones could learn that lesson.zzzzzz you don't know what you are talking about...Led Zep/Stones and the who for that matter had their roots much closer to black music than queen ever did in fact...if you listen to queen (upto and including Jazz) queen were anything but black... led ze/who/stones actually got very close to real blues with some of their early albums.... and i would suggest that Kashmir and Trampled get much closer to "eastern" as you put it...than anything queen every produced go and read up on music origins then come back and start a cohesive argument |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 21.10.2006 21:30 |
By the way, I wanted to make it clear that I acutally like both the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. They are good bands, especially compared to a lot of the crap that I hear on the heavy metal station. I am just saying that, for me, the rhythm is just not there. Futhermore, I think that you have to admit that a band does not necessarily understand rhythm just because it claims to be inspired by black music. By the way, I am actually part black myself. In terms of Freddie Mercury, I obviously think that he was the greatest popular music singer ever. Since he has already been voted as such in several polls, I do not think that there is anything extreme about that argument. |
| Knute 21.10.2006 22:01 |
What a ridiculous assertion. Led Zeppelin thrived on black music...the blues..hello??? The Who were forefathers of the Mod movement. The Mods worshipped American R&B...yes that's right..black music. It's such blantant myopia from fans like you that almost make me ashamed to call myself a Queen fan. |
| john bodega 21.10.2006 23:07 |
This thread is going nowhere fast! No one ever said it was being 'open minded' to listen to Led Zeppelin and The Who; learn how to read. What I said was that discounting them as rhythmically deficient was a bad idea. I'm sure Robert Plant is overjoyed that those weeks in Morocco have resulted in him being lumped in with people who 'don't understand music'. I must apologise for my first response, I thought this was a serious thread. |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 22.10.2006 01:21 |
Guys, Let me repeat what I said earlier: Just because a band says that they were "influenced" by black music does not necessarily mean that they have any sense of rhythm. Anyone can say that they are playing "the blues" or "jazz." That does not necessarily mean anything other than the fact that they expect everyone to take them really seriously. |
| john bodega 22.10.2006 01:47 |
"Just because a band says that they were "influenced" by black music does not necessarily mean that they have any sense of rhythm." This is *absolutely* correct. But it is also totally irrelevant when in context with the bands we are discussing. Nobody mentioned any bands with no sense of rhythm in this thread. |
| Knute 22.10.2006 03:12 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: Guys, Let me repeat what I said earlier: Just because a band says that they were "influenced" by black music does not necessarily mean that they have any sense of rhythm. Anyone can say that they are playing "the blues" or "jazz." That does not necessarily mean anything other than the fact that they expect everyone to take them really seriously.Geez, each new post of yours gets more silly. Tell me what your precise definition of a sense of rhythm is. Let me guess, it has nothing to do with the even dispersion of accented and non-accented metered pulses over time. Oh no, it's rhythm as performed by Freddie Mercury and then there's everything else..LOL You are one of those people who try using musical nomclemature to sound like you making a lot of sense but you are really not in light of the true definition of these terms. For example, define syncopation and describe exactly how Roger and Brian don't use it, unless prompted by Freddie. I have a hint for you, you can't play music without using syncopation. I won't even address that crazy ass statement about musican's only play Jazz or Blues in an effort to be taken seriously, as if that's it's only value in playing it...LOL |
| john bodega 22.10.2006 03:28 |
"I won't even address that crazy ass statement about musican's only play Jazz or Blues in an effort to be taken seriously, as if that's it's only value in playing it...LOL" AHAHAH I totally missed that one the first time around! This thread just got funnier for me! |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 22.10.2006 12:35 |
Someone above asked what my definition of rhythm is and how I know that Brian and Roger do not necessarily have it. I would define rhythm as simply the flow of sound through time. All music, including that of Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones, has rhythm to it in the sense that it usually set in some time signature. Some time signatures are set in 4/4/ and 2/4, while others are set in 7/4, 9/8 and 11/4. It turns out that, while most Western classical music was written in 4/4/ or 2/4, a lot of white composers and bands have figured out how to use exotic meters like 7/4 and 11/4. However, as hard as they try, there is still a problem. The issue is that they nonetheless fail to understand what syncopation is. Syncopation involves placing the stress in a spot other than where the meter is falling. Although it is very beautiful, most Western classical music does not make use of syncopation in the way that black music does. Another issue with syncopation is that, in order to be effective, it needs to be varied. As I discussed earlier, that is the problem that I have with the Rolling Stones. They are a fun band that has written some interesting songs. However, they are lazy when it comes to rhythm. Led Zeppelin, on the other hand, simply does not “get” rhythm or soul. They just don’t have it. Although Jimmy Page is a great technical guitarist, Robert Plant’s voice sounds cold and distant. No one in that band really has any kind of “groove” about them. Unfortunately, Brian and Roger also do not quite have the groove thing going on either. The Problem: They look and sound like a bunch of white dudes. I mean, have you ever heard Brian’s solo stuff? While it may have some interesting guitar things in it, it is clear that he is not very interested in rhythm. Even when you watch him in live performances, he seems tall, gangly and rhythmically awkward. On the other hand, I question whether Roger ever contributed all that much to Queen at all. He even admits that Freddie re-wrote “A Kind of Magic” and “Radio Ga-Ga” for him. By the way, although I am pleased to see the responses that this topic has generated, I am somewhat disappointed by what I see as personal attacks in many of the responses. In high school, I learned that it is not good debate practice to simply tell the other person that they are "ignorant." If the person really is ignorant, then it is up a good debator to explain WHY the other person is ignorant. It seems like a lot of people on this thread actually cannot handle the concept of debate in which people argue back and forth in a non-personal manner. You notice from my responses that I have not personally attacked anyone, nor have I resorted to calling anyone "ignorant" about music. I simply tell them that I disagree, and then I proceed to explain why. |
| Knute 22.10.2006 13:14 |
Ahhh I see, Freddie was the only one who had 'it' in the band..that's why if you take away the greatness of Freddie..Queen is nothing but a bunch of plodding white dudes who couldnt keep a beat if their life depended on it. That's why Freddie's solo stuff is so brilliant. Far surpasses anything Queen ever did. |
| Donna13 22.10.2006 13:27 |
Tall and gangly? There is hardly anyone more graceful than Brian. |
| john bodega 22.10.2006 13:50 |
I note with a chuckle you haven't mentioned John Bonham. He was a mighty clever dude, and I'm not surprised you're avoiding his co-writer credit in "Kashmir", as that song alone pokes about three million holes in your argument. "Although Jimmy Page is a great technical guitarist" He's kinda messy actually.... but he's definitely inimitable. I've seen very competent players try to emulate his scrappy style and fail totally! "he seems tall, gangly and rhythmically awkward" I actually agree with this. "On the other hand, I question whether Roger ever contributed all that much to Queen at all." Now I know you're kidding. I'm taking a long look through Freddie's catalogue of songs he wrote for Queen. He was a mightily clever songwriter (someone get Sebastian in here). But the point you are stressing that he was better at 'rhythm' than any of his contemporaries isn't very strong at all. I can't recall him inventing much. He was eclectic. He made odd and apparently disparate kinds of music fit into the whole Queen gig. But even his most genius works used rhythms that have been heard before and after he used them. Ya know, I've been rather restrained and respectful so I don't get this 'personal attacks' nonsense at all. You don't really sound like you have a handle on the generally understood meaning of the word 'rhythm' because you're claiming Freddie Mercury was the only one in the rock business that had any rhythm. That is utter shite; you can go ahead now and tell me I'm 'attacking you' because I'm disagreeing, but in reality its very simple. You're wrong. You could argue that maybe he had a little 'more' rhythm than some (which still sounds stupid anyway) but..... no. Your argument is flawed. Give it up. |
| Donna13 22.10.2006 14:50 |
"Unfortunately, Brian and Roger also do not quite have the groove thing going on either." I see this as a plus. |
| mike hunt 23.10.2006 01:51 |
Knute wrote: Ahhh I see, Freddie was the only one who had 'it' in the band..that's why if you take away the greatness of Freddie..Queen is nothing but a bunch of plodding white dudes who couldnt keep a beat if their life depended on it. |
| john bodega 23.10.2006 04:52 |
"Barcelona is brilliant and probably better than anything queen did in the eighties in my opinion." You copied that from another thread! But back to the original topic. I finally figured out why the assertion in this thread makes absolutely no sense. It's because it's *utterly* racist. While I'd agree there are a whole lot of whities like me with no rhythm, you'd probably find people in every demographic with no sense of syncopation and what not. The idea that a whole genus or ethnic type might be better at rhythm than another is shot to pieces when you take into consideration Jay Z - a black rapper with less sense of timing than an oyster. I think you're just miffed that Robert Plant has more rhythm than you do. |
| The Real Wizard 23.10.2006 09:06 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: I would argue that Led Zeppelin literally represents the antithesis of black music. For instance, while black music is soulful and spiritual in nature, Led Zeppelin music has none of these qualities.So you define soul and spirituality now too, and your definitions of those things are the benchmarks that everyone else has to adhere to? Absolutely hilarious. This thread has become a joke. You bury yourself further and further with each post. People call you ignorant because you are. You can't reply and call them ignorant, because they're simply not. They're proving you wrong. Calling someone ignorant isn't a personal attack. Ignorance is not a word with negative connotations. It only seems negative when it applies to yourself and you refuse to grow out of it. |
| Knute 23.10.2006 11:43 |
I swear this person comes off a lot like Arleen Weiss used to. Remember her? You remember how she would ramble on and on and use big words to try and sound clever but a lot of her stuff was just nonsense. |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 23.10.2006 15:47 |
One point that I want to make here is that some white people have rhythm. Obviously the Bee Gees understood rhythm, otherwise they would not have been making disco music. Instead, they would probably be in heavy metal. Now, am I saying that the Bee Gees are better than Led Zeppelin? No, I am not. What I am saying is that they understand what rhythm is better than your typical heavy metal band. I do not understand why Led Zeppelin has to be great at everything. Clearly, among other things, they had a great guitarist. They were a great hard rock band. But did they understand rhythm and syncopation like Jay-Z? No way! This is not to say that Jay-Z is better in every way to Led Zeppelin. I am only pointing out that different acts have different strengths and weaknesses. With regard to Queen, I feel that their great strength involves the fact that they were a hard rock band that understood rhythm. If other Queen fans do not appreciate this rare combination, then that is too bad. |
| Lester Burnham 23.10.2006 15:55 |
Knute wrote: I swear this person comes off a lot like Arleen Weiss used to. Remember her? You remember how she would ramble on and on and use big words to try and sound clever but a lot of her stuff was just nonsense.Yeah, but this person doesn't have enough... CAPITALIZED words and halting.. sentences! |
| teleman 23.10.2006 16:38 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever aka Bitch4Freddie wrote: One point that I want to make here is that some white people have rhythm. Obviously the Bee Gees understood rhythm, otherwise they would not have been making disco music. Instead, they would probably be in heavy metal. Now, am I saying that the Bee Gees are better than Led Zeppelin? No, I am not. What I am saying is that they understand what rhythm is better than your typical heavy metal band. I do not understand why Led Zeppelin has to be great at everything. Clearly, among other things, they had a great guitarist. They were a great hard rock band. But did they understand rhythm and syncopation like Jay-Z? No way! This is not to say that Jay-Z is better in every way to Led Zeppelin. I am only pointing out that different acts have different strengths and weaknesses. With regard to Queen, I feel that their great strength involves the fact that they were a hard rock band that understood rhythm. If other Queen fans do not appreciate this rare combination, then that is too bad.The only combination illustrated here is your arrogance and ignorance. Queen are not a heavy metal act. They're clearly more eclectic than most hard rock/metal bands. To dismiss all others as not understanding rhythm shows a lack of appreciation of what music is. All music has rhythm by definition. Rhythm covers everything pertaining to the time aspect of music as distinct from the aspect of pitch, i.e. it incl. the effects of beats, accents, measures, grouping of notes into beats, grouping of beats into measures, grouping of measures into phrases, etc. When all these factors are judiciously treated by the performer (with due regularity yet with artistic purpose—an effect of forward movt.—and not mere machine-like accuracy) we feel and say that the performer possesses ‘a sense of rhythm’. There may be ‘free’ or ‘strict’ rhythm.This thread is typical of Bitch4Freddie going on endlessly without any point or logical conclusion. |
| john bodega 23.10.2006 21:13 |
Jay Z *DOES NOT UNDERSTAND SYNCOPATION*. Or music, or rhythm, or whatever the fuck it is you were supposedly talking about. I suspect the man has cardiac arrhythmia and it impedes on his singing or something. |
| mike hunt 24.10.2006 01:44 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "Barcelona is brilliant and probably better than anything queen did in the eighties in my opinion." You copied that from another thread! how did you know that?....your actually right!...anyway, the original poster lost all his marbles by bringing up Jay Z. Are you kidding me?... But back to the original topic. I finally figured out why the assertion in this thread makes absolutely no sense. It's because it's *utterly* racist. While I'd agree there are a whole lot of whities like me with no rhythm, you'd probably find people in every demographic with no sense of syncopation and what not. The idea that a whole genus or ethnic type might be better at rhythm than another is shot to pieces when you take into consideration Jay Z - a black rapper with less sense of timing than an oyster. I think you're just miffed that Robert Plant has more rhythm than you do. |
| john bodega 24.10.2006 02:15 |
Well it's a good thing I didn't put "don't quote me on that" on the end there... |
| Knute 24.10.2006 22:57 |
Do me a favor and listen to Royal Orleans off the Presence LP. Maybe that will shut you up about them not having or understanding rhythm. It has a very syncopated funk beat dressed up in that Zeppelin style. Very James Brownish at points. |
| The Real Wizard 25.10.2006 00:17 |
Knute wrote: Do me a favor and listen to Royal Orleans off the Presence LP. Maybe that will shut you up about them not having or understanding rhythm. It has a very syncopated funk beat dressed up in that Zeppelin style. Very James Brownish at points.But you mustn't forget, none of the guys from Led Zeppelin were born in or around Africa, so therefore they couldn't have any sense of rhythm. Get with the program, man! |
| john bodega 25.10.2006 03:22 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Love it!Knute wrote: Do me a favor and listen to Royal Orleans off the Presence LP. Maybe that will shut you up about them not having or understanding rhythm. It has a very syncopated funk beat dressed up in that Zeppelin style. Very James Brownish at points.But you mustn't forget, none of the guys from Led Zeppelin were born in or around Africa, so therefore they couldn't have any sense of rhythm. Get with the program, man! As if anyone can have such a thing 'born' into them :P just look at our man Freddie. He wasn't so great in those early live recordings, eh? This thread was satirical, right? |
| Knute 26.10.2006 00:20 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:But I understand they're quite fond of fried chicken and watermelon. That gives them just enough 'blackness' by proxy to have some rhythm, unlike other hard rock acts.Knute wrote: Do me a favor and listen to Royal Orleans off the Presence LP. Maybe that will shut you up about them not having or understanding rhythm. It has a very syncopated funk beat dressed up in that Zeppelin style. Very James Brownish at points.But you mustn't forget, none of the guys from Led Zeppelin were born in or around Africa, so therefore they couldn't have any sense of rhythm. Get with the program, man! Everyone knows that no other heavy metal act likes fried chicken and watermelon, so it would appear our friend is right on the money. |
| john bodega 26.10.2006 00:42 |
By far, the funniest thing I've seen on here in yonks. |
| M a t i a s M a y 26.10.2006 01:43 |
Tenian imaginacion, creatividad, originalidad. Tocaban bien, hacían bien las cosas. Esa es siempre la clave del éxito. |
| The Real Wizard 26.10.2006 02:21 |
Hahaha... I love this topic! |
| willem-jan 8923 28.10.2006 05:07 |
Knute wrote:You don't remember Buckethead, he played in Guns n'roses for some years. He always had this KFC bucket on his head, so he must love the fried chicken and therefore be grooovy as hell.Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:But I understand they're quite fond of fried chicken and watermelon. That gives them just enough 'blackness' by proxy to have some rhythm, unlike other hard rock acts. Everyone knows that no other heavy metal act likes fried chicken and watermelon, so it would appear our friend is right on the money.Knute wrote: Do me a favor and listen to Royal Orleans off the Presence LP. Maybe that will shut you up about them not having or understanding rhythm. It has a very syncopated funk beat dressed up in that Zeppelin style. Very James Brownish at points.But you mustn't forget, none of the guys from Led Zeppelin were born in or around Africa, so therefore they couldn't have any sense of rhythm. Get with the program, man! |
| john bodega 29.10.2006 11:35 |
I mean Christ.... how can one listen to a track like Join Together and say there's no rhythm, syncopation or whatever in there? WHAT A FOOL. |
| john bodega 04.11.2006 00:24 |
I had a thought. Does this mean George Bush doesn't care about Freddie Mercury? |
| Donna13 04.11.2006 15:26 |
Haha. Silly. |
| john bodega 05.11.2006 08:24 |
Donna13 wrote: Haha. Silly.Come now - I knew we were one bad joke away from officially hitting the bottom of the barrel, I had to do it! |
| house 07.11.2006 01:19 |
Mick Jagger is NOT black!!! |
| Smitty 07.11.2006 07:03 |
house wrote: Mick Jagger is NOT black!!!O_o |
| haryanto chandra 19.01.2007 04:52 |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever wrote: By the way, I wanted to make it clear that I acutally like both the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. They are good bands, especially compared to a lot of the crap that I hear on the heavy metal station. I am just saying that, for me, the rhythm is just not there. Futhermore, I think that you have to admit that a band does not necessarily understand rhythm just because it claims to be inspired by black music. By the way, I am actually part black myself. In terms of Freddie Mercury, I obviously think that he was the greatest popular music singer ever. Since he has already been voted as such in several polls, I do not think that there is anything extreme about that argument.Agree !!! You are right !! |
| john bodega 19.01.2007 11:51 |
OOH Thanks for bumping the best thread of 2006. "Freddie Mercury was the only rockstar who really had a sense of rhythm". ... priceless! |
| The Real Wizard 19.01.2007 21:35 |
I had to read through this topic, for old time's sake. *sheds tear* ...as well as a good laugh. |
| Seven_Seas_Of_Rhye II 19.01.2007 22:54 |
The Key to Queen’s Greatness - = Their talent and skill = cheerfulness = diligence and persistence = charm |