| Togg 22.09.2006 10:27 |
Watching the One Vision recording session video I wondered who could shed some light on the track Brian is playing on piano at the start of the piece? does it have a name? was it ever recorded properly or did it become something else? |
| louvox 22.09.2006 10:35 |
That track became "Who wants to live forever" and is included as a bonus track on "A kind of Magic CD called "Forever" |
| Adam Baboolal 22.09.2006 11:05 |
Or more correctly, this is probably the track people call Butterfly. Probably somewhere in the archives if it was recorded. Adam. |
| Togg 22.09.2006 11:22 |
I shall listen to Forever tonight, it doesn't sound right but I've not heard that track for a long time, thinking about the track Brian was playing (in my head) I can't make the chord progression fit, but maybe. Butterfly sounds more like it, I haven't heard of it but I do seem to remember something about it on here some time ago, probably in one of John Stuarts threads. |
| Jjeroen 22.09.2006 11:38 |
Yes, it IS indeed the piano-think we refer to as 'Butterfly'. Though there is no official word on this, a musical ear (like mine ;-) would indeed suggest that this is could be a very early stage idea that eventually evolved into WWTLF. Bit like the hidden track on the Another World album... which of course is a piano version/thingy of Business. |
| rocks. 22.09.2006 12:48 |
uploading to rapidshare for you all know for those who dont have it... |
| rocks. 22.09.2006 12:54 |
here you go: link |
| Bohardy 22.09.2006 18:38 |
Agreed with Jeroen. This piece has definitely always been known as 'Butterfly' (though I've no idea where that title comes from), but from the first time I ever heard it, it always struck me as being the beginnings of WWTLF. All of its chords are present in WWTLF, in roughly the same order, and the pace and feel of both songs are pretty similar. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 24.09.2006 08:59 |
young_strat_man wrote:Not everyone. Thanks WhatMustHeThink.WhatMustHeThink wrote: here you go: linkI think everyone who has Queen recordings has this track, it is as rare as the 5.1 mixes on the fan mix thread. |
| Adam Baboolal 24.09.2006 09:57 |
I don't see how anyone could think this had anything to do with WWTLF. You can hear him humming a melody that is clearly nowhere near that song. In fact, to follow the same logic as what has been suggested here, I could say it was the begginings of Brian reaching out to do a reworking of GSTQ!!!! Totally ridiculous and idiotic, and based somewhere in la-la land. Adam. |
| john bodega 24.09.2006 10:06 |
Haven't read this thread yet but the first replies made me laugh my arse off. This stuff isn't WWTLF. At all. It's just... different. |
| Jjeroen 24.09.2006 12:27 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: I don't see how anyone could think this had anything to do with WWTLF. You can hear him humming a melody that is clearly nowhere near that song. In fact, to follow the same logic as what has been suggested here, I could say it was the begginings of Brian reaching out to do a reworking of GSTQ!!!! Totally ridiculous and idiotic, and based somewhere in la-la land. Adam.It's not in the humming, it's in the piano! And nobody said it IS WWTLF! It SOUNDS like a very early improv that MIGHT have evolved later on into WWTLF. Ridiciolous and idiotic? Yeah, when you only listen to vocals maybe. I cannot blame you. You probably wouldn't hear the difference between an A chord and Am chord either. I know it's hard for non-musicians to listen to a piece of music in another way, but if you call this 'ridiciolous and idiotic' Obviously you are no musician and have no musical hearing... Because, this assumption is not just from lalalala land, there is very serious reasons to assume that this has something in any way to do with said song! the "what is this thing..." until "slips away from us..." is in that piece EXACTLY. All the chords, in the same tempo, in the same key, in the same order. |
| Adam Baboolal 24.09.2006 12:58 |
jeroen wrote:Wow, what an idiot..! lolAdam Baboolal wrote: I don't see how anyone could think this had anything to do with WWTLF. You can hear him humming a melody that is clearly nowhere near that song. In fact, to follow the same logic as what has been suggested here, I could say it was the begginings of Brian reaching out to do a reworking of GSTQ!!!! Totally ridiculous and idiotic, and based somewhere in la-la land. Adam.It's not in the humming, it's in the piano! And nobody said it IS WWTLF! It SOUNDS like a very early improv that MIGHT have evolved later on into WWTLF. Ridiciolous and idiotic? Yeah, when you only listen to vocals maybe. I cannot blame you. You probably wouldn't hear the difference between an A chord and Am chord either. I know it's hard for non-musicians to listen to a piece of music in another way, but if you call this 'ridiciolous and idiotic' Obviously you are no musician and have no musical hearing... Because, this assumption is not just from lalalala land, there is very serious reasons to assume that this has something in any way to do with said song! the "what is this thing..." until "slips away from us..." is in that piece EXACTLY. All the chords, in the same tempo, in the same key, in the same order. Did you read what I had written? Not well, it seems. 1st - the comment about lala land, etc. etc. was on how I was leading the reader with my GSTQ madness. It wasn't aimed at anyone you ninny! It was a contrived example. And I make no assumptions as I HATE assumptions in our crazy world. I hate them with a passion, I swear! 2nd - You made the biggest assumption. That I wasn't a musician. Guess again. Not only that, but I also lend musical/engineering comments here when I can. Now, back to logical discussion here, rather than assumptions. Didn't Brian have WWTLF written in a car ride back from watching some edited scenes of the Highlander film? So, surely, by the time they hit the studio, the idea is not going to be from this improv. Adam. |
| Mkls 24.09.2006 13:10 |
"Butterfly" is the official name of the track, according to Brian. The story of it was told by Brian 4-6 years ago either in a fan club magazine or a Q/A session through Queenonline or brianmaynews.com, I cant remember. |
| Jjeroen 24.09.2006 13:10 |
Hmmm... maybe some people have a melody in their head for a long time before they actually find a moment to properly use it in a song? Logical? Happens all the time! Besides: yes, that is indeed what Brian said. The footage with Butterly come from 1985. Brian also said he wrote it after seeing a VERY ROUGH cut of the movie. Which was WAY before the film was done and by far not even all scenes were filmed. Could it be this was as early as 1985? Surely also LOGICAL, right? - Then: If I misenterpreted the intention of your post, I am sorry. I probably missed something. Or it was because English is not my native language. I'm also sorry If I used the word 'assumption' wrongly for the same reason. The fact that your 'rediciolous and idiotic' sentence starts on a new line, didn't make your post any clearer either. - BUT: you also missed something my words. Because I know you for a long time and I KNOW you do studio-work. But if you are indeed in music, you should have also noted the quite remarkable similarities between Butterfly and WWTLF and NOT start about the humming. Idiot. |
| Adam Baboolal 24.09.2006 13:33 |
jeroen wrote: H Or it was because English is not my native language. I'm also sorry If I used the word 'assumption' wrongly for the same reason. The fact that your 'rediciolous and idiotic' sentence starts on a new line, didn't make your post any clearer either. - But if you are indeed in music, you should have also noted the quite remarkable similarities between Butterfly and WWTLF and NOT start about the humming.Just because it starts on a new line means nothing. Since it follows the silly example I was making, it belongs to that part. I think your former explanation explains why you thought it was a real comment. Just because I am a musician doesn't mean I see things the same way. We all continue to have our own thoughts on these matters. I'm sure I've heard things in earlier songs that could've led to others they've done. But I don't link that with the earlier song. Just a writing style. So, style-wise, I could think that it's just Brian being Brian at the piano. Doesn't have to lead to anything, does it? Adam. |
| Jjeroen 24.09.2006 14:30 |
Okay - we are just taking this too serious... ;-) You're right - Brian does indeed have his 'favourite chords' when he's behind the piano. But I found the sequences in this one too pretty remarkably close to what happens in a song called WWTLF that must have been written not too long after this. I never meant to say "this is an early version of WWTLF". I'm just suggesting that it is well possible that Brian was fooling around with the same idea/sequences when he eventually wrote WWTLF. - Ah, right: one other thing on a note from a previous post: Brian wrote the words to WWTLF sfter the Highlander preview, right? Maybe the music was already there long before, but still had to find words and a meaning? :-) |
| rocks. 24.09.2006 14:47 |
magicalfreddiemercury wrote:No Problem! :Dyoung_strat_man wrote:Not everyone. Thanks WhatMustHeThink.WhatMustHeThink wrote: here you go: linkI think everyone who has Queen recordings has this track, it is as rare as the 5.1 mixes on the fan mix thread. Young_Strat_man, I was just being nice and considerate. You may want to try doing the same, you stupid fucker. |
| Togg 25.09.2006 03:54 |
I think the lesson here is not to jump down peoples throat when they are trying to pass a sensible opinion. Adam you do have the knack of shouting down everyone else based on the fact that you disagree with there opinion! Peace mate... remember |
| Adam Baboolal 25.09.2006 06:52 |
Togg wrote: I think the lesson here is not to jump down peoples throat when they are trying to pass a sensible opinion. Adam you do have the knack of shouting down everyone else based on the fact that you disagree with there opinion! Peace mate... rememberJeez... I find this all laughable because the only place where I could be considered jumping down peoples throats is on MY OWN example. I insulted no-one! Nothing to do with anyone's opinion at all. I can laugh at my own example, yet others take it so seriously and personal. To the point they feel it's actually about them! Weird. And my opinion was based on the FACT that there is a story I've read where Brian wrote the idea on the way back from the early screening of Highlander, I mentioned. So, that's why I said this Butterfly demo, while sounding similar here and there, is merely Brian playing as he does and not an idea that became WWTLF. This track was just him putting an idea down on tape, hence the humming along at the same time. It's like the IABD argument that erupted where plenty of folk thought it was from 1991 recordings. But I disagreed and pinpointed the time of the Game sessions. All I'm saying is that I'd like some leniancy in what I think on this one. I don't need to be right, I just need to know I'm getting a logical progression out there for this one. Not guessing, in other words. Adam. |
| Togg 25.09.2006 07:16 |
Adam Baboolal wrote:You are asking for leniancy when you start of by saying some is Ridiciolous and idiotic?Togg wrote: I think the lesson here is not to jump down peoples throat when they are trying to pass a sensible opinion. Adam you do have the knack of shouting down everyone else based on the fact that you disagree with there opinion! Peace mate... rememberJeez... I find this all laughable because the only place where I could be considered jumping down peoples throats is on MY OWN example. I insulted no-one! Nothing to do with anyone's opinion at all. I can laugh at my own example, yet others take it so seriously and personal. To the point they feel it's actually about them! Weird. And my opinion was based on the FACT that there is a story I've read where Brian wrote the idea on the way back from the early screening of Highlander, I mentioned. So, that's why I said this Butterfly demo, while sounding similar here and there, is merely Brian playing as he does and not an idea that became WWTLF. This track was just him putting an idea down on tape, hence the humming along at the same time. It's like the IABD argument that erupted where plenty of folk thought it was from 1991 recordings. But I disagreed and pinpointed the time of the Game sessions. All I'm saying is that I'd like some leniancy in what I think on this one. I don't need to be right, I just need to know I'm getting a logical progression out there for this one. Not guessing, in other words. Adam. That is what I mean, we don't know what was going on in Brian's head FACT, we don't know what became to the song FACT. it might have become any number of things but we are not privy to it so it's just speculation no matter what you've read because that could well be just a journalist or fan getting the wrong end of the stick. Why not be leniant with others? you don't KNOW you are just speculating. |
| Adam Baboolal 25.09.2006 07:50 |
"You are asking for leniancy when you start of by saying some is Ridiciolous and idiotic?"
Wrong. THAT'S the example people are thinking is about or AT them. You've just done the same thing, Togg. In fact, you've done worse because, it's already been explained on a previous post. Did you read the whole thread?
"...so it's just speculation no matter what you've read because that could well be just a journalist or fan getting the wrong end of the stick."
The point being that I'm going by what I've read in conjunction with what I think this Butterfly demo sounds like. Others go by the chords that are also in WWTLF. Why are my thoughts on this so controversial? Just because I'm not comfortable with guessing?
Togg wrote:Why not be leniant with others? you don't KNOW you are just speculating.Uhmm... not really. Since others have gone by the same story (the highlander screening one), it's what most people refer to where it came from. I'm not speculating with that, I'm going by what I've read about its conception. Whereas the posts about it possibly becoming the idea for WWTLF are their own speculations. If you want my opinion, then I'd say it's not the idea that led to WWTLF. That's my speculation. |
| Togg 25.09.2006 12:04 |
Adam you have a most peculiar way of expressing your views, regardless of whether you meant it or not you write in such a way as to imply. No wonder people often seem to interpret your comments as something else. |
| Adam Baboolal 25.09.2006 15:37 |
Togg wrote: Adam you have a most peculiar way of expressing your views, regardless of whether you meant it or not you write in such a way as to imply. No wonder people often seem to interpret your comments as something else.I certainly don't think so. If I hadn't put the contrived example into my initial post, there wouldn't have been any problem. If I was implying anything, then that would've been an attack on those who were posting their thoughts. So, you just have to ask, why would I do that and then deny it? And what do you mean, "people often seem to interpret my comments" etc. etc. This is the second time you've said something to me. But how many run-ins are you referring to other than with yourself? I'm interested to hear who you mean. Adam. |
| Bohardy 25.09.2006 19:57 |
Adam: By implication, you basically said that me and Jeroen were in 'la-la land', and our suggestion that Butterfly could in some way have been the very early beginnings of WWTLF as 'ridiculous' and 'idiotic'. You said those pejorative terms relate to your hypothetical example that Butterfly was a reworking of God Save The Queen, yet you also said you were following our logic to arrive at that conclusion, ergo, the logic we used in formulating our opinions is idiotic, ridiculous, and based in la-la land. As Togg says, your opinion on this is no more based in fact than mine and Jeroen's. Jeroen offered a perfactly plausible scenario for the song's genesis, that fits with both the known timeline of how the song is likely to have evolved, as well as offering harmonic/musical evidence for the possible links between the two songs. Either of us (me/Jeroen and you/Zebonka) could be right. I accept that. But I honestly wonder how you can't hear the similarities between Butterfly/WWTLF, and can't accept that Butterfly MIGHT be WWTLF in embryonic form. I admit that it seems unlikely now, if it is true that Brian himself revealed Butterfy as the name of the piano piece, as he obviously remembers this piece as something other than a WWTLF demo of sorts. But there's no denying the similarities between the music, and therefore the potential that Butterfly could have led to WWTLF. |
| FriedChicken 25.09.2006 20:08 |
I don't think Butterfly is a prehistoric version of Who Wants To Live Forever. Because if it were Brian would've said in the interview 'That's a first version of Who Wants to Live Forever' However, if he did write it after seeing the film it was probably abandonned when he came up with Who Wants to Live Forever. |
| Adam Baboolal 26.09.2006 06:20 |
Thankyou Bohardy. Looking back and reading both that and what you have written has made me wonder if I'm wrong about the way it sounds. Oh well, I still think that I'm just going by what I've read from a well known story. And not just from hearing a demo and thinking that that could've been such and such a song. I believe that can be done with earlier official Queen songs! That's why I related it to Brian's style of playing at the piano. Adam. |