QueenZone discussion #838011
mp3 silence at start
| earwig 29.07.2006 19:33 |
Obviously with live concerts you want the sound to flow when converting to WAV. Is there a set time period (e.g. 500ms???) for that annoying silence at the start of an mp3 or do you just have to guess how much to trim? Thanks for any info |
| Mr Mercury 29.07.2006 21:32 |
Firstly, before anyone else says it, if you are thinking of converting from MP3 to wave there is no point as you will still get an MP3 sounding wave file. This is because MP3 is a lossy format and wave isnt. Basically what that means is that MP3 files "throw away" certain frequencies that the human ear sometimes cant hear and a small amount that can be heard. Once these are thrown away, they cannit be got back. Wave files keep everything. Secondly if the silence at the start is bugging you then get rid of it. I sometimes do that and put a fade in using programs like Adobe Audition, etc. Hope that helps. |
| earwig 30.07.2006 06:40 |
OK thanks. I only want to convert to WAV purely to burn a CD for my walkman and I don't want to fade in every track through the gig :( Just wondered if there's a set time for those silences at the start of every track. |
| Mr Mercury 30.07.2006 07:16 |
Sorry I didnt mean you should put a fade in on every track maybe just the very first one. Tracks after that shouldnt have a fade in them at all or even a bit of silence no matter how short the silence is. |
| Deacon Fan 30.07.2006 07:32 |
I think you need to read his post again Mr Mercury. Has nothing to do with quality, it's all about getting rid of the gaps which are caused by the mp3 format. :) I wish there was an easy answer.. I've decoded a couple to check and even if there was an exact number, which there doesn't seem to be.. they add a bit of noise there too so you can't just look at a waveform and see an exact start or stop, if that makes sense. You can cut a little and maybe get lucky that crowd noise might hide the edit, but generally there will still be a little click because they never go back together just right without tedious work :-P While we're on the subject.. why do not only bootleggers but record companies consistently put the live song track markers in the wrong place? I'm friggin' tired of hearing the introduction to a song at the end of the previous track! Geez! It's idiotic. Same goes for live DVDs. I guess they think the public want to hear a song start as soon as they hit that 'next' button or whatever.. well the same folks who skip around like that also might want to play the tracks in different order, so it would be nice not hear "and now here's a song called 'place song title here' " END OF TRACK / different song. Sorry.. um, good luck with the gaps thing. |
| freddie lives 28817 30.07.2006 07:53 |
The only way to do it (that i'm aware of) is the tedious way: use a program like sound forge and physically "cut" the silence out. |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 30.07.2006 08:21 |
When I used to burn live CDs, I used Nero. I used an option that crossfades the beggining of a track with the end of the last one, and set it to half a second. I'm sorry if I don't detail that, it has been years since I last burnt a CD using that procedure. I hope it helps. Cheers, Ogre- |
| Vladdy 30.07.2006 10:00 |
Nero has an option called "No pause between tracks"...although this option doesn't deal with gaps that are literally in the MP3/WAV file.....still it may help..or maybe not...:D Cheers |
| Wilki Amieva 30.07.2006 10:08 |
I suggest you use a software utility called mp3Trim to deal with digital silence in mp3 encoded files. There is also WavTrim which does the same with wave files. Both are FREE ...and such a jollyfication! |
| Mr Mercury 30.07.2006 10:28 |
Mikahl wrote: I think you need to read his post again Mr Mercury. Has nothing to do with quality, it's all about getting rid of the gaps which are caused by the mp3 format. :) I wish there was an easy answer.. I've decoded a couple to check and even if there was an exact number, which there doesn't seem to be.. they add a bit of noise there too so you can't just look at a waveform and see an exact start or stop, if that makes sense. You can cut a little and maybe get lucky that crowd noise might hide the edit, but generally there will still be a little click because they never go back together just right without tedious work :-P While we're on the subject.. why do not only bootleggers but record companies consistently put the live song track markers in the wrong place? I'm friggin' tired of hearing the introduction to a song at the end of the previous track! Geez! It's idiotic. Same goes for live DVDs. I guess they think the public want to hear a song start as soon as they hit that 'next' button or whatever.. well the same folks who skip around like that also might want to play the tracks in different order, so it would be nice not hear "and now here's a song called 'place song title here' " END OF TRACK / different song. Sorry.. um, good luck with the gaps thing.Mikahl, I did read the original post but I was only making a point before someone else said so. As for the track markers, I think that its purely a matter of taste as to where they are put and record company's or bootleggers arent gonna please everybody in this. Getting rid of gaps properly is a tedious task as someone already pointed out. I did it a couple of times and then decided to stop bothering to do so as 99% of the time the stuff was for me only. |
| earwig 31.07.2006 09:29 |
Thanks for everyone's comments. Yeah, I did open the waveform in Adobe Audition but like someone said above, it's hard to see the difference between a noisy track and the actually start of sound. I guess then there isn't a set amount of time for the silence. Also, I agree with ID markers being in funny places. But i guess it's the Mastering engineer's opinion and if the artist feels strongly enough then it would get changed. |
| brENsKi 31.07.2006 13:23 |
use nero, take the pause out between tracks, then finally - use the cross-fade option |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 31.07.2006 20:28 |
<font color=green>Bren<font color=orange>ski wrote: use nero, take the pause out between tracks, then finally - use the cross-fade optionThat is exactly what I do. I wish I were able to explain it concisely like you did :) Cheers, Ogre- |
| Mr. Scully 01.08.2006 04:08 |
earwig - actually the silence (which is IMO a fault of *all* MP3 encoders) is the MAIN thing why I avoid MP3's at all cost. For me it's not the lower quality that matters (bootlegs have a low quality anyway). It's the annoying silence. I'm not sure if deleting the gaps is enough - simply because the result might be a click between the tracks where the curve changes. Also remember that burning an audioCD requires tracks of specific lengths. If the track doesn't meat certain requirements (it must be divideable by 0.013 sec. or something), a gap is added at the beginning of the track. From my long experiences & thousands of burnt CD's, I'd say that burning faultless live audioCD's from MP3 files is impossible. |
| tilomagnet 01.08.2006 06:20 |
Mr. Scully wrote: Also remember that burning an audioCD requires tracks of specific lengths. If the track doesn't meat certain requirements (it must be divideable by 0.013 sec. or something), a gap is added at the beginning of the track.This is called a sector boundary error. |
| pma 01.08.2006 07:59 |
Adobe Audition (and other programs surely) will let you select the time display format. By default that is in DECIMAL, which is not the mode you should work in if you are editing stuff to be burned on CD. Switch from Decimal mode to 'Compact Disc 75fps' and then you'll edit seamlessly for the needs of your target medium. |
| earwig 01.08.2006 08:05 |
Mr Scully (& others), thanks for your reply - at least some people really understand my question! No offence to the others that didn't! Thinking about it, when I ripped Live Killers to Windows Media Player (encoding to WMA) no silence was introduced. Being bold, how about an experiment in encoding bootlegs to WMAs instead of mp3s in this forum? Mind you, it will piss off the Mac users ;) Just a thought. Also, can I say again a MASSIVE thanks to all uploaders! We all really appreciate it! |
| The Real Wizard 01.08.2006 09:53 |
Mr. Scully wrote: From my long experiences & thousands of burnt CD's, I'd say that burning faultless live audioCD's from MP3 files is impossible.It's definitely possible. Removing the mp3 gaps in a wave editor is a trial and error thing. I used to do this years ago, before I knew the difference between mp3 and wav. Earwig, I wouldn't recommend doing the cross-fade thing. Although it will appear that the gaps are gone, you'll lose a couple seconds between each song. |
| Hank H. 01.08.2006 11:00 |
earwig wrote: Thinking about it, when I ripped Live Killers to Windows Media Player (encoding to WMA) no silence was introduced. Being bold, how about an experiment in encoding bootlegs to WMAs instead of mp3s in this forum? Mind you, it will piss off the Mac users ;) Just a thought.There are software players which support gapless playback for LAME-encoded mp3s. One of them is foobar2000. For winamp there are plugins available which support gapless playback: MAD link or Otachan link foobar alos has a burn-function, so maybe that way you can burn audio-cds from mp3 without gaps, but I can only guess there. At least it can read cue sheets, so you could create a single mp3 file with a cue sheet. More information: link |
| earwig 01.08.2006 12:54 |
AHA! Thank you for that. I'll look into it |
| Deacon Fan 01.08.2006 23:55 |
pma wrote: Adobe Audition (and other programs surely) will let you select the time display format. By default that is in DECIMAL, which is not the mode you should work in if you are editing stuff to be burned on CD. Switch from Decimal mode to 'Compact Disc 75fps' and then you'll edit seamlessly for the needs of your target medium.I gotta thank you for this info Pete. I've been plagued by clicks for years without knowing why.. was always trial and error.. finding just the right place for transitions.. now I know what my problem was :-P Except the old version of Sound Forge I use (6.0b) doesn't have the 75fps option.. it has these choices.. link So will one of those work? And also there's something I read somewhere about 'snap to frame' which Sound Forge also doesn't have. it snaps to zero or to a set time (like 1 second) and there's no way to change that from time to frames.. however.. hmm.. if there's a set amount of time which equals a frame then I could do that, right? |
