QueenZone discussion #825871
Do they have a right to be 'piqued' at Freddie?
| magicalfreddiemercury 14.07.2006 20:27 |
There's a soapbox entry on Brian's site dated July 13th where he goes on a bit of a rant about how Freddie did his solo thing, they all (Brian, Roger and John) helped, and then he (Freddie) dissed them all by saying something like, "thanks to Brian, Roger and John for staying out of this". Brian goes on to talk about how Freddie hired a guy to play like him (Brian), etc, and if Freddie wanted to sound like Queen, why didn't he just work this project with Queen? Are his complaints legit? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it came off as whiny and immature. He even went on to say how maybe people are ready for a Freddie solo album now since nobody wanted one then. It sounds like Brian has some lingering love/hate issues with Freddie. For those in the know, I guess this is nothing new, but it was quite a surprise to me. Opinions? |
| beautifulsoup 14.07.2006 20:40 |
Of course he has a right to be piqued. |
| eenaweena 14.07.2006 20:53 |
every band has their problems. so i guess, yeah. if these things are true, then they do have a right to get mad. |
| Carol! the Musical 14.07.2006 20:54 |
Hmm, I didn't really know what to think about this issue. Very delicate. |
| Winter Land Man 14.07.2006 21:02 |
Well didn't Brian work on the demos of the songs? I'm not sure he worked on the released ones! |
| magicalfreddiemercury 14.07.2006 21:05 |
innadizon wrote: every band has their problems. so i guess, yeah. if these things are true, then they do have a right to get mad.I guess that's more my question - Are these things true? Whether they have the right to be piqued depends on that, yes? |
| FreddiesGhettoTrench 14.07.2006 21:46 |
Eh, every band has their in-fights. I suppose this is just one of those "grr" issues that came up. |
| eenaweena 14.07.2006 21:49 |
brian still loves freddie anyway. he has so much praise for him, despite his "faults", if i may say that. :) i sourced this from his soapbox, by the way. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 14.07.2006 22:05 |
innadizon wrote: brian still loves freddie anyway. he has so much praise for him, despite his "faults", if i may say that. :) i sourced this from his soapbox, by the way.He does praise him. Whenever I've seen him speak about Freddie it's always with this kind of reverie. That's why this seemed strange to me. His resentment is very clear and that shocked me. |
| beautifulsoup 14.07.2006 22:10 |
Human beings are multi-faceted, you know. |
| eenaweena 14.07.2006 22:18 |
beautifulsoup wrote: Human beings are multi-faceted, you know.true. best friends have some 'problems' with their best friend, and it's inevitable. but they still totally respect each other right? this is just the same for any rockstar, like brian. |
| Winter Land Man 14.07.2006 22:23 |
I remember Freddie said in an interview about Queen... in reference to them compared to him, he said "Leave it to me for writing the hits" but you could tell he was joking due to his facial expression, plus it was during 'The Works' release, and his only hit was It's A Hard Life and it wasn't the best charter on the album. |
| eenaweena 14.07.2006 22:29 |
wasn't radio gaga a hit too? and i want to break free? and hammer to fall? :) |
| Winter Land Man 14.07.2006 22:33 |
innadizon wrote: wasn't radio gaga a hit too? and i want to break free? and hammer to fall? :)Yeah! Radio GaGa was the biggest! But Freddie was making a joke and said "leave it to me for the hits!" Then again, Radio GaGa was reminxed by Freddie... and probably deserved a co-credit. Especially since it's been publically admitted that Freddie changed the song around so it's complementing the radio, instead of the Roger version whiched dissed it... |
| eenaweena 14.07.2006 23:13 |
haha! freddie's so funny. :) |
| Bambi 15.07.2006 00:27 |
maybe he resents his dying, even after all these years. he always seemed to praise him, and then at times he seems to downplay freddies part. I know john was very deeply affected by freddies death that he said thats it, without freddie theres no more queen. |
| eenaweena 15.07.2006 01:20 |
true. there is still queen without freddie, but no one can really replace him, right? |
| deadbird 15.07.2006 01:27 |
I think this question could be re-phrased as "Did any of these humans have problems/feelings about things and were they ALLOWED ot voice it?" nice. what kind of things do you have feelings about that weren't really "legit" but still EXISTED? |
| bas asselbergs 15.07.2006 04:13 |
they may be "piqued" at Freddie, yes, but in my opinion they just shouldn't...not anymore after so many years...what happened most of the time, is that when the guys came in the studio together to start recording for a new album, they would all put their ideas on the table, sit and listen to what they had come up with, and start trying to play these ideas and work them out. Sometimes there were songs of a much too personal character that wouldn't be fit as a Queensong on an album. Freddie wrote loads of too personal stuff, that the band didn't want on a Queen-album. So, Freddie gathered many of them in the end, and put them on a solo album. Brian saying now, that he feels abused and kicked away by Freddie, stating on the album that he is thanking them for not interfering with this project, is also partially his own fault, as they could have chosen some of these songs as Queen ones....but that is always afterwards... I think he shouldn't be too negative about all this. It is all in the past, and nothing can be changed...ever...it is history now. But then again, one will only regret in life, those things one didn't do, when the chance was there. Freddie gave them a chance, they did't take it then, so now they shouldn't be "picked" at Freddie now....but if they do now...it says all about them, an nothing about Freddie..... |
| Adolfo and the spiders from Mercury 15.07.2006 04:42 |
All I have to say is that Brian knew him |
| Oberon 15.07.2006 04:55 |
well, I believe that in interviews around 1985 Fred said he didn't want the solo album to be a "Queen" sound, but if he then says to Brian in private, I've got this bloke to copy you etc, then that might have annoyed Brian, I guess. you can tell he's annoyed, because he kind of had a small dig at the poor guitarist Fred hired, and normally Brian is extremely modest and generous to other musicians etc, so he must have been piqued! Sounds a bit of a strange contridiction from Freddie IMO. I think it's good in a way that Brian can say what he felt and be "real". Obviously his overriding memories are positive ones, but it's probably healthy to retain at least some negative aspects or he would just seem like he's deifying Freddie. It's up to us to do that!!! |
| saltnvinegar 15.07.2006 07:32 |
I think Brian has the right to sound off when something annoys him. After all it's his site and he doesn't hold back from ranting about other subjects close to his heart, why not Freddie too. Of course the fact that so many more people read his 'blog' means the word gets spread more quickly and is more open to analysis. I also guess that he gets a bit pissed off when almost every interview he does manages to encorporate a 'Freddie-related' question. And now, even 15 years after his death we're all gearing up to celebrate his 60th birthday! Brian was probably in such a mood when he typed that piece about Freddie's solo work...I felt the part at the end when he praised his voice seemed a bit of a last minute repair job but he's entitled to say what he wants..even a negative Freddie anecdote goes to keeping the legend alive! |
| magicalfreddiemercury 15.07.2006 07:39 |
Oberon wrote: ...Obviously his overriding memories are positive ones, but it's probably healthy to retain at least some negative aspects or he would just seem like he's deifying Freddie. It's up to us to do that!!!lol. Very true - deifying Freddie is up to us. :) And yes, you can clearly tell Brian's annoyed. It's out of place after all this time though, no? That's why I asked if this was legit – not so much his feelings but the facts. Did things happen the way he says they did? Or has time skewed his memory/emotions? What would be Freddie’s reason for including them only to cut them out? He was always so tongue-in-cheek, the comment thanking them for staying out of the project could have been Freddie’s way of saying they WERE involved rather than being the slap in the face Brian now implies it was. Like Adolfo said, Brian knew him, but at the end of his post, Brian wonders why Freddie did this since he was always so generous with them. That says to me he should keep this kind of musing out of a public forum. It's all supposition on his part and it casts shadows over Freddie’s character. I think that’s unfair especially since Freddie can't clarify his motives - if there were any motives. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 15.07.2006 08:00 |
saltnvinegar wrote: I think Brian has the right to sound off when something annoys him. After all it's his site and he doesn't hold back from ranting about other subjects close to his heart, why not Freddie too. Of course the fact that so many more people read his 'blog' means the word gets spread more quickly and is more open to analysis. I also guess that he gets a bit pissed off when almost every interview he does manages to encorporate a 'Freddie-related' question. And now, even 15 years after his death we're all gearing up to celebrate his 60th birthday! Brian was probably in such a mood when he typed that piece about Freddie's solo work...I felt the part at the end when he praised his voice seemed a bit of a last minute repair job but he's entitled to say what he wants..even a negative Freddie anecdote goes to keeping the legend alive!I agree with everything you said here, and I'm not trying to put Brian down for voicing his feelings. I think everyone should be able to do that. But... there's that word... it's the facts I question. No, I don't think Freddie was perfect, but he isn't here to tell his side of the story, and I think it's wrong of Brian to taint the re-release of Freddie's solo work with his own perception of events from years ago. Now, if Brian's right, that puts a whole different spin on things. But how do we know? It's his word against... what? |
| saltnvinegar 15.07.2006 09:15 |
magicalfreddiemercury wrote: No, I don't think Freddie was perfect, but he isn't here to tell his side of the story, and I think it's wrong of Brian to taint the re-release of Freddie's solo work with his own perception of events from years ago. Now, if Brian's right, that puts a whole different spin on things. But how do we know? It's his word against... what?Quite true, and there lies the problem. It's similar to the whole "Mercury and Me" debate plus the stuff quoted in documentaries like "Freddie's Loves" etc. These people can (and do) say what they want as there's no way of disproving it but that doesn't mean it's the truth. Of course I don't mean to compare Brian to some of those money-grabbing people I mentioned above but I think he has his own ego to keep massaged and we only have his word about what happened concerning Mr Bad Guy. I agree about the whole timing of his comments being somewhat awkward, almost like trying to steal some thunder whilst underlining his own musical importance/influence...if Freddie did hire a session guitarist to sound just like Brian...then maybe he should take it as a compliment, after all 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' isn't it....?! |
| Regor 15.07.2006 09:51 |
He has every right to feel that way - because as stated here before HE knew him, and I thought this was relly honest. In that same message he talks about how nice it is to hear Freddie's solo stuff again. He talks about a friend, and friendship always includes differences. For me it is an appraisal of Freddie's compositions and that Brian would have loved to contribute more to his solo stuff. Perhaps now we finally know why they did include MIH and IWBTLY on MIH in the first place. I was always critical about that, but now I see it as a tribute to Freddie's writing abilities. Interesting in that context is Freddie's 1984 interview with Mary Turner for "Off the record", in which he talks about the possibility of Queen playing his solo songs on the tour, and how he is looking forward to the guys input to the songs and "how the are going to take them a step further". And the credits on "Mr. Bad Guy" not only include the passage about the others, but also "Thanks to Barbara Valentin for big tits and misconduct". So it was all tongue-in-cheek. For me Brian's comments are far from being disrespectful, it's the opposite. He would've given his best if Freddie had allowed him to contribute more to the album. And that he could'nt is still in his mind. Don't want to sound too psychological though... And the thing about the album not selling too good: first of all it was Top10 in the UK, but outside england it did not cause much interest. Then he also talks about Mick Jagger solo stuff not selling, which is true, and thus we're talking about the singer of THE biggest band in the world (personal preferences aside). And non of Brians own stuff charted really high in major markets outside the UK and he is clearly aware of that. So that is in no way insulting... it's just true ! IMHO this message is nothing to be too critical about, and after reading it I still have no doubt that Brian loves him and respects him as the brilliant musician he was. |
| beautifulsoup 15.07.2006 10:19 |
Adolfo wrote: All I have to say is that Brian knew himHear, hear! |
| MercuryArts 15.07.2006 10:58 |
This most be a thorn in his side. I have an interview from the Innuendo radio promo tour from June 91. I recorded it off local radio. During it the DJ askes about Freddie's Barcelona project w/ wasn't released in the states at that time and it morphed into Brian mentioning Mr.Bad Guy. Saying the same thing about if Freddie wanted the guitars to sound like Brian why not just use Brian. (Light chuckling ) It didn't go any deeper than that. But it is something that has stayed w/ Brian for over 20 years. We all have our own little grudges. It part of being human. |
| kdj2hot 15.07.2006 11:00 |
Brian didn't taint anything. Good for him for being honest about how he felt. He didn't say anything negative so I don't see what the big deal is. The way Brian described Freddie gleefully playing it for him, there wasn't any intentional malice on Freddie's part. I don't want to say all of us, but many of us have made mistakes like that were we misjudged how someone would take something. It's better for Brian to let things like this out instead of keeping them bottled up(I'm sure people close to him already knew how he felt though). |
| bitesthedust 15.07.2006 14:24 |
Correct me if I am wrong - but legend has it that John, Brian & Roger did not feel comfortable releasing another disco-influenced album, after the reaction to Hot Space. Freddie's Mr Bad Guy album is that other disco-influenced album, in my opinion "Hot Space no. 2". Of course it is a Freddie solo cd and therefore his complete influence is stamped all over the project; the sound being part of it. Having previously made 12 albums with Queen he would want to go with what he knew, surely? (Barcelona was a completely different kettle of fish.) This was also his first solo album, don't forget. So perhaps his comment of thanking the others for staying out of it is sarcastic? Remember that in 1985 the band had intended to take another break but Live Aid changed all that... |
| Winter Land Man 15.07.2006 16:34 |
bitesthedust <br><h6>The QZ gentleman... wrote: Correct me if I am wrong - but legend has it that John, Brian & Roger did not feel comfortable releasing another disco-influenced album, after the reaction to Hot Space. Freddie's Mr Bad Guy album is that other disco-influenced album, in my opinion "Hot Space no. 2". Of course it is a Freddie solo cd and therefore his complete influence is stamped all over the project; the sound being part of it. Having previously made 12 albums with Queen he would want to go with what he knew, surely? (Barcelona was a completely different kettle of fish.) This was also his first solo album, don't forget. So perhaps his comment of thanking the others for staying out of it is sarcastic? Remember that in 1985 the band had intended to take another break but Live Aid changed all that...I bet John wouldn't of minded releasing another disco album! |
| FreeSpirit328 15.07.2006 16:41 |
I have Mr. Bad Guy, and I don't think the guitarist sounds anything like Brian's sound. IMO Maybe Frieddie was just teasing gim or something... |
| Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 15.07.2006 16:47 |
To Magical Freddie, You see it as a love/hate relationship? Sorry, but I don't see the love part of it. It sounds like this is just another one of Brian's jealous outlashes. Can you imagine Roger or John saying something so disrespectful? No way! Those two don't love Freddie and would never say anything mean like this. |
| beautifulsoup 15.07.2006 16:56 |
Sheesh. |
| bgordon88 15.07.2006 18:33 |
I think Brian could have been more diplomatic in his choice of words. I mean really he only need say that some of Freddie's songs would have benefitted from the full blown Queen treatment for example look at Made In Heaven, IWBTLY on the Made In Heaven album. Brian was the one who slaved away in the studio trying to get that perfect sound - Freddie generally got bored quickly and wanted to move on. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 15.07.2006 19:02 |
Fat Queen Pig wrote: To Magical Freddie, You see it as a love/hate relationship? Sorry, but I don't see the love part of it. It sounds like this is just another one of Brian's jealous outlashes...Oh, I don't know about this. You may have read more than me, but whenever I've heard Brian speak about Freddie or have read quotes from Brian about him, it's all been respectful and, yes, even loving. IMO, there was a clear bond between these guys. That's why this bit surprised me. I wasn't sure what to make of it. I don't doubt there was some competition between them, but if there is jealousy now, I haven't noticed it. In fact, I'd say Brian sounded more hurt than jealous in this. He did say they were 'piqued', and clearly he still is. It's sad because it's a situation that can never be cleared up. He doesn't know what Freddie's true intention was but implies it was insensitive if not dismissive. For that reason, I wish he hadn't brought it to a public forum - or connected it to the re-release of this work. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 15.07.2006 19:03 |
bgordon88 wrote: I think Brian could have been more diplomatic in his choice of words. I mean really he only need say that some of Freddie's songs would have benefitted from the full blown Queen treatment for example look at Made In Heaven, IWBTLY on the Made In Heaven album...Yes. Exactly. |
| mike hunt 16.07.2006 01:25 |
this doesn't make sense, why is this a big deal?...by 1985 roger already had two or three solo albums and know one says anything. Freddie decided to have a solo album of his own and the others feel left out?...Why isn't brian pissed off at roger for recording all his solo albums without him. By the way, the guitarist on Mr. bad guy sounds nothing like brian. |
| deleted user 16.07.2006 12:02 |
I think it's one of Freddie's "jokes" You know, maybe he wanted to get on their nerves a little bit... |
| another one diets the bust 16.07.2006 17:50 |
mike hunt wrote: By 1985 roger already had two or three solo albums and know one says anything. Freddie decided to have a solo album of his own and the others feel left out? Why isn't brian pissed off at roger for recording all his solo albums without him. By the way, the guitarist on Mr. bad guy sounds nothing like brian.Well, Roger's solo stuff does not sound that Queen-esque the songs MrBadGuy sound. Many of them wouldn't have been outta place on a Queen album. Although i do like Freddie's solo version of IWBTLY much more than the Queen one. But back in 1985 a Queen version of that one would've sounded quite different i guess. |
| deleted user 16.07.2006 18:30 |
Who cares ? Brain has a right to be 'piqued' or down-right hopping mad at anyone he pleases. Oh my gosh ! Brian said something that wasn't glowing with praise about dear little perfect Freddie ! Oh no ! Let him be piqued. He was there. He actually lived his life. He has the right to say whatever he wants and you know who knows the truth ? No one. If there's a God, he might know - that is if he was paying attention at the moment. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 16.07.2006 22:53 |
mike hunt wrote: this doesn't make sense, why is this a big deal?...by 1985 roger already had two or three solo albums and know one says anything. Freddie decided to have a solo album of his own and the others feel left out?...Why isn't brian pissed off at roger for recording all his solo albums without him. By the way, the guitarist on Mr. bad guy sounds nothing like brian.Yes, I wondered how he felt about Roger's solo work. Maybe if things were different, Brian would have said the same thing about the work taking Roger away from them like he said about Freddie's work. Maybe that's where the resentment lies... time lost. But wasn't Brian working on his own stuff when they did the video for These Are The Days Of Our Lives? I thought they all took breaks to do their own thing, not that one decided to work on his own album while the rest waited in the studio... Whatever. Bottom line is Brian's peeved about something he thinks happened more than two decades ago. |
| Winter Land Man 17.07.2006 07:29 |
the_hero wrote: What about "She blows hot and cold" Brian intentionally played guitar on it.. But the actual and track was without Brian... kinda odd. Maybe Brian did some more takes to show the other guitarist how he would do it :PSometimes vocalists use other musicians to see how a song would sound... then they hire someone else to completely do it. Bryan Adams did that, he used his song writing partnet, Jim Vallance, to do a lot of the bass, drums, guitar, and sometimes keyboards, then he'd get other musicians to do it. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 17.07.2006 09:07 |
Brian discussed this in 1988 in an issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician. He talked about how incredibly hurt he was when Freddie used a sound alike who mimiced Brian's style, particularly on Let's Turn it On and Man Made Paradise. I also think it occurred during a time when Brian felt that his role in the band was pretty diminished, so that probably contributed to it. |
| beautifulsoup 17.07.2006 12:06 |
Boy Thomas Raker wrote: Brian discussed this in 1988 in an issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician. He talked about how incredibly hurt he was when Freddie used a sound alike who mimiced Brian's style, particularly on Let's Turn it On and Man Made Paradise. I also think it occurred during a time when Brian felt that his role in the band was pretty diminished, so that probably contributed to it.I remember the first time I heard the guitar solo in "My Love is Dangerous" I was like, "Hey - that sounds kinda like Brian - only *not.*" (Heck - I guess I gotta go listen to "Mr. Bad Guy" again). |
| rocks. 17.07.2006 16:34 |
Fat Queen Pig wrote: Those two don't love Freddie and would never say anything mean like this.Excuse me, but who are you to say who somebody whom youve never actually had a conversation with does or does not love. <font color="red">The Audacity of Kelley wrote: Who cares ? Brain has a right to be 'piqued' or down-right hopping mad at anyone he pleases. Oh my gosh ! Brian said something that wasn't glowing with praise about dear little perfect Freddie ! Oh no !I agree with this, Brian was there, none of us were. And Freddie wasnt perfect, and just because he died doesnt make Brian a horrible monster for expressing his opinions, good or bad about Freddie. And I dont think he was insanely jealous at the studio guitarist, he was just hurt and annoyed at what he thought was an insensitive move on freddie's part, and I believe (and this is pure guesswork) that Freddie thought Brian would like and be flattered about his work which supposedly resembles Brian...(I dont hear that much resembelance, maybe a bit, but thats just me). In regards to the "thanks for staying out of this" Freddie may have been referring to his musical ideas, or trying to alter the song, but I dont know. For Christs sake, the next line down, Freddie put "This album is dedicated to my cat Jerry - Also Tom, Oscar and Tiffany and all the cat lovers across the,universe - screw everybody else." Oh, and if Brian can mention it in a 1988 magizine interview, im sure he would have mentioned it to Freddie. All I know for sure is that I love Mr. Bad Guy as much as all the Queen albums and a bit more than a couple. Fuck, I'm SO getting them to play Love Me Like There's No Tomorow at my funeral. |
| Bambi 17.07.2006 22:48 |
we all have a little of the green monster in all of us eh? |
| rocks. 18.07.2006 16:56 |
doeeyes wrote: we all have a little of the green monster in all of us eh?Yes, I think so. I cant say i've never been even a little bit jealous of a friend, but I dont think this was Brian's jealousy coming through, i think it was hurt. |