QueenZone discussion #818998

<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?

<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote:

<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?

Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject.

<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote:

<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?

Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject.

Mr.Jingles wrote: I live in the New York metro area and even after September 11 the typical New Yorker wiseguy scared me far more than the average Muslim. Everytime I hear some douchebag says something like: - WAT DA FUCKS DA MATTA WIT CHA!! I feel more wary than when I cross paths with a person wearing a turban.

YourValentine wrote: Look up the criminal statistics in your country and calculate your risk of being murdered by a native Christian for money or be run over by a drunk British driver compared to your risk of being killed by a terror attack with an Islamistic background. Of course, if you are killed because someone needs money for drugs you won't make it on national TV news. I am not downplaying your fears - it would be stupid to ignore the danger but we should be aware of the role of the media shaping our view of the world. There is always an agenda behind TV and newspaper news - even if it's only the price they can ask for commercials. You would NOT hold white Christians in general accountable if your neighbour is killed by a white Christian person but then the news would not say : the killer was of white Christian background... The racism is in us before the crime happens. It is so much easier to be a racist than not to be a racist. The fear of the stranger is so deeply rooted in our collective subconscious - it is very easy to appeal to this fear. We overcome racism by education and with our intelligence but our instincts work against that and we feel threatened so much more when a "stranger" killed one of "us". The only way not to become a racist is educating ourselves and not falling for the cheap "answers" we are offered by media and certain politicians. There are no "rogue" countries or races.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: I live in NYC. I'm used to seeing people of different races and religions all around. Never fazed me. If anything, I value the uniqueness and have taught my daughter to respect and admire those who will stick to their traditional values despite how 'modern' the world becomes. But to your point, yes, since 9/11 I have been wary of Muslims. I am especially leery of the growing number of women in my neighborhood who are wearing the traditional Muslim headscarves. They walk down major streets with everything covered but their eyes. I find myself growing angry when I see them and when my daughter asks why I feel that way, I can't explain it. What am I teaching her? That because the most vocal Muslims are anti-West we should fear/dislike/fight them all? Were all Germans Nazis? I think the answer to your question is a logical one in theory but cannot be easily practiced. IMO, not becoming a racist depends on all sides cooperating equally. If non-extremist Muslims feel as non-Muslims do about terrorism they should denounce it. Loudly. We so often wait for clerics to come out and say Bin Laden and the attacks around the world are inexcusable. Sometimes they do, but often in brief exchanges and subtle tones. Unless you're listening hard, you're not going to hear it. And who would put such energy into listening to someone they already see as a hater? Hate breeds hate and while we must be vigilant in our fight for freedom (though without another debacle like Iraq), I don't believe tensions between "us" and "them" will lessen any time soon. Especially when you consider how a cartoon can turn an ordinary day into a day - month - of rioting and more.

Togg wrote: You are absolutely right YV in your summary, it technically has nothing to do with racism, but there IS an irrational fear that follows these things. To be honest I firmly believe we are ALL racist in one way or another, be it a preconceived notion about another country or simple jokes based on race, i.e the Englishman the Irishman and the Scottishman type of thing, we don't like to think of ourselves as racist but we are, it's in our nature to want to belong to our own community and distrust others, we get over it by supporting teams in made up games like football, (then of course it can come out wide into the open) but anyone that tells you they are not racist is not being true to either you or themselves, (I know a lot will disagree here maybe you too) but the fact is we all harbour thoughts based on preconceived notions on other races, even if it's as simple as not liking the French because they always seem to be on strike when we want to fly into their airspace! You are correct with the crime statistics I am certain if I should be killed or injured by another it is far more likely to be a white male christian aged between 18 -35 but that somehow seems less focused when you pick up the papers everyday and read about how many die in Iraq each day, you can't help in turn thinking about what effect this has on vast numbers of people that feel strongly about the American (and thus British) involvement over there. What must it be like to wake up each day thinking America is attacking and invading your fellow countrymen? it would make you want to do something about it unless you agreed with them, and clearly many don't, to then take that to it's logical conclusion you realise that in their eyes at least westerners become legitimate targets. I guess this stems from first finding out someone I knew was most likely killed in the sept 11th attacks, then working in London and realising we were bound to be next, then trying to work out how to go about daily life. My decision was to carry on as normal as any sane person would, but on days like today it focuses the mind, and I defy anyone to travel on the tubes and buses in London today, not to look and stare if a young eastern man with a rucksack gets on. Don't get me wrong I don't go around thinking about this all day everyday, I just felt today that it was something we should talk about being a world community here on Queenzone.

<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote: The educated Muslims are dismissive about all the terrorism and the Jihad. But do you see or read about them? Of course not, that doesn't sell!

Togg wrote: Yet again you seem to have missed the point of the post, I am not saying I go around thinking about this all the time, I am simply asking the question, 'how does it make you feel?' The point of this was to discuss the effects of the bombing and subsequent media on us, nobody mentioned anything about taking it at face value.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote: The educated Muslims are dismissive about all the terrorism and the Jihad. But do you see or read about them? Of course not, that doesn't sell!

This brought something to mind... Bill Cosby. For ages he spoke out for the black minority. Recently, he began speaking out in a different way. Telling the black community to take more responsibility, etc. for their lot in life. To stay in school. To speak appropriately. To act with self-respect. His comments were shot down. The loud minority of people who disagreed with him let it be known, while those who felt he was saying all the right things, remained silent. How much more powerful would his message have been if other respected elders echoed his sentiments? It's the same, IMO, with the educated Muslims you mention. They've remained comparatively silent. They're not going out there to demonstrate or take back their 'hijacked' religion. It's hard to hear the other side when the other side simply shakes their collective head dismissing the violence, hatred and terror.

<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote: They have, only the general media isn't interested in them. There were demonstrations against these things BY Muslims...big ones. And judging by your reaction, you didn't see one obviously. And that's my whole point. Why don't they show these things on a global scale? Why only locally or during political campaigns etc?

<font color=330066><bold>old barrow-boy wrote: Hello, Togg and magicalfreddiemercury! ...We can't afford to loose you to the dark side. ;)

<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: "Religion fucks people up" True?

Paul McCartney Junior wrote: I have a lot more respect for minority members who dont buy into every imaginable stereotype

+++MatiasMay+++<h6><i>The Rainmaker wrote: We should kill them all

Bob The Shrek wrote: I lived in London through the 70's and the IRA threat - and I gave them about as much attention as I do the al-Qaeda threat - fuck all. What's the point? You can't view everyone who appears Muslim to be a terrorist just as you couldn't assume everyone with an Irish accent was an IRA sympathiser. If you spend your whole life worrying about who is sitting next to you on a bus or train, you are going to have a crappy life or panic yourself into an early grave. My advice is to just go about your daily business, smile a lot and just live your life as best as possible.

bitesthedust <br><h6>The QZ gentleman... wrote: Having a genuine fear of flying, for example is different but if you live in fear of things like this then you won't go anywhere.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

bitesthedust <br><h6>The QZ gentleman... wrote: Having a genuine fear of flying, for example is different but if you live in fear of things like this then you won't go anywhere.

And if we succumb to the fear, we allow them to win.

celli wrote: "not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim" people say this and unfortunately i think it is true. .

Paul McCartney Junior wrote: if you have a problem with God or Uncle Sam, you are seriously in the wrong country

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Paul McCartney Junior wrote: if you have a problem with God or Uncle Sam, you are seriously in the wrong country

I need to speak to God himself to ask him what things he's cool with, and what he's not. Bible and 10 commandments don't count.

Paul McCartney Junior wrote:

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Paul McCartney Junior wrote: if you have a problem with God or Uncle Sam, you are seriously in the wrong country

I need to speak to God himself to ask him what things he's cool with, and what he's not. Bible and 10 commandments don't count.

And the only way would be to kill yourself