Scott_Mercury 06.06.2006 11:11 |
Has anyone besides me noticed that anytime Brian discusses Innuendo in an interview, he acts as though during Innuendo, Freddie, was deaf, dumb, and blind.... he'll be like "Freddie said at this point bring me anything to sing, and I'll try to sing it with all my heart." I think Brian has always had this complex that he wanted to be viewed as "the leader".... the "chief songwriter"... Brian's wording to me sounds as though by the grace of god, he wrote the whole Innuendo album himself, and poor Freddie couldn't hardly put a thought process together at this point... it was all Freddie could do to get drunk on vodka, and read lyrics that Brian had wrote. All of this is total Bullshit. As Mike Moran, Jim Hutton, Mary Austin, and Peter Freestone all recall Freddie working his ass off on Innuendo...knowing it would most certainly be the end. We now know through various sources that Freddie wrote: I'm going slightly mad All Gods People Bijou Don't Try So Hard Innuendo (somewhat in dispute, but friends of Freddie's say it was 90% his) Hitman Meanwhile, people in the studio have been quoted as saying the first verse of TSMGO is mostly Freddie's. Roger told Modern Drummer magazine in 1999 "Days of our lives is a idea I had for awhile, but couldn't quite nail the lyric. I presented it to the guys, but it still somehow seemed unfinished. The magic occured when Freddie changed the chords around, and Brian put his solo in over Freddie's chords. I didn't know if I liked Brian's solo at first, but now, I love it." So with the exception of Brian's "Headlong" and "I can't live with you", and Roger's "Ride the Wild Wind"...Freddie had something to do with every song. Now don't get me wrong, I love all 4 Queen members...and they are at their prime together... But I get pissy with Brian acting as though Freddie was incompetant during these sessions... while Deacon, Taylor, Mercury's friends, and production crew all act as though their wouldn't have been a Innuendo album and its songs without Freddie. |
john bodega 06.06.2006 11:39 |
Your Brian May quotes are probably out of context. For instance, I know one interview where he was saying that stuff and I'm pretty sure they were talking about Mother Love, or The Show Must Go On, both of which were collaborations. And the guy was pretty ill. They say nothing bad about Freddie, they talk about his enthusiasm to work, we know for a fact that he wrote a lot of that latter material - they're just telling us the other side to it. And - perhaps they're addressing the unreleased songs when they make such statements? Freddie might've gone "give me anything to sing", Brian might have offered up "Self Made Man" and it might've been laughed out of the studio. Who knows. We don't. |
Serry... 06.06.2006 11:44 |
For the first (and last probably) time I agree with Zebonka... |
john bodega 06.06.2006 11:49 |
Serry... wrote: For the first (and last probably) time I agree with Zebonka...What the - I thought you didn't read my long boring posts??? :P |
Sebastian 06.06.2006 11:52 |
> Has anyone besides me noticed that anytime Brian discusses Innuendo in an interview, he acts as though during Innuendo, Freddie, was deaf, dumb, and blind.... I agree, somehow during the first years after Fred died, they always made him look like a disabled twat who couldn't write a thing. That's why many fans to this day still think Brian was the dominant composer during the last years and that's totally untrue: Freddie wrote half (or more) of 'Miracle' and 'Innuendo' albums and, off the three post-Innuendo tracks, all of the lyrics are his, plus the music of one. > he'll be like "Freddie said at this point bring me anything to sing, and I'll try to sing it with all my heart." And there you've got another contradiction: he could be very ill and all of that, but if he was able to sing The Hitman and Show Must Go On, he certainly had the energy to compose many tracks as well. > I think Brian has always had this complex that he wanted to be viewed as "the leader".... the "chief songwriter"... Yes although I think he's been fairly ethical (lately) when it comes to some of those credits: Freddie himself creditted 'The Miracle' to all four of them (lyrically) but Brian's always recognised it's Freddie's, with some input from the others. > We now know through various sources that Freddie wrote: I'm going slightly mad, All Gods People, Bijou, Don't Try So Hard, Innuendo, Hitman And Delilah. It means that, from 12 songs, 7 are chiefly his, 2 are Roger's, 2 are Brian's and the other's a collaboration between the four of them and David Richards (with Freddie having less input than the others). That's quite enough to be still the dominant songwriter as he was in the early years. > Roger told Modern Drummer magazine in 1999... Do you have sources of that quote? It seems interesting. |
john bodega 06.06.2006 12:01 |
In my mind, Brian's quotes do not preclude the possibility of Freddie being *both* the primary songwriter and an enthusiastic guy who said 'just give me shit I'll sing it'. There's no contradiction. He probably wrote the songs at home for fuck's sake. Brian is not going to say in an interview "well I wasn't at Freddie's house, but he was there in his bed with piles of lyrics around him, muahaha". (Though Freddie didn't like taking his work home with him, so Hutton says, but it's possible he did a bit of writing here and there, eh? He wrote Delilah in a hotel didn't he? Or was that I'm Going Slightly Mad. I haven't a clue hahaha). In saying that Brian is lying or offering a one-sided picture, one assumes that both situations could not have existed concurrently, which is *bumpkis*. Both could have happened, with a great deal more complexities we don't know about. I'm going to heavily paraphrase Walter Lord when I say a harsh man indeed would set himself as arbiter of all that happened in 89-91 just because he's read a Brian May interview or two. |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 06.06.2006 13:16 |
To Scott, You make a really good point here. I also feel that Brian is very insecure when it comes to being compared to Freddie as a songwriter. For instance, he has even tried to downplay "Bohemian Rhapsody". In other instances, I feel that he over-exaggerates his own contributions in a way that is not consistent with what other say. He also likes to start his own biographies by listing something like 20 songs that he wrote (or in many cases, simply co-wrote) while in Queen. It is as though he has to let everyone think that he is the lead songwriter of Queen. But when you look at his list, a lot of them were not even hits! I think that, deep down inside, Brian also suspects that, without Freddie, Queen probably would never have made it. |
Adam Baboolal 06.06.2006 15:08 |
Zeb makes the best post here. You don't know the guy so why second guess all this stuff? Peace, Adam. |
Scott_Mercury 06.06.2006 15:32 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: Zeb makes the best post here. You don't know the guy so why second guess all this stuff? Peace, Adam.Because he is in the public eye, and we are interested. If "in public" Paul McCartney or John Lennon ever critisized the other of "at this point, it was all John/Paul could do just to pour vodka to get drunk on" we'd hang the fucker! Yet Brian talks shit all the time. He'll downplay Bo Rhap, then go on to rave about how awesome "39" is.... He'll say he was suprised that "Don't Stop me now" is rated so high among the fans... but then knock his shoulder out of socket to pat his own back about the **amazing** "tear it up". Brian has said on no less then 10 occasions about Freddie's pain and continiously drinking vodka during the Innuendo sessions. Does he sound more drunk to you on Days of Our Lives or TSMGO?? I think... that even in his gravely ill condition, Freddie pushed through, didn't say a word about how he was feeling, tried to write the best music of his career, and sing his absolute best... (I wanna be the leader) Brian says to himself "Damn, even sick as hell, this guy is still showing me up, and calling the shots" Brian lets it go...because not taking away anything from Brian, he's a phenominal musician, and no doubt cared for Freddie as if a blood brother. Freddie dies. Brian goes on to boast about how he wrote all of Innuendo himself... he had to, afterall Freddie said, in his drunken stuper "just bring me any old shit, I'll sing it." Truth = 60% of Innuendo (at minimum) = Freddie Mercury. |
PieterMC 06.06.2006 15:51 |
Scott_Mercury wrote: He'll downplay Bo Rhap, then go on to rave about how awesome "39" is....Yeah he says its shit all the time.... Scott_Mercury wrote: but then knock his shoulder out of socket to pat his own back about the **amazing** "tear it up".Can't say I have ever heard Brian refer to Tear It Up as "amazing" Scott_Mercury wrote: Does he sound more drunk to you on Days of Our Lives or TSMGO??I don't recall every reading anything where anybody stated that Freddie was drunk. Scott_Mercury wrote: (I wanna be the leader) Brian says to himself "Damn, even sick as hell, this guy is still showing me up, and calling the shots"Pure speculation on your part.... Scott_Mercury wrote: Brian goes on to boast about how he wrote all of Innuendo himself... he had to, afterall Freddie said, in his drunken stuper "just bring me any old shit, I'll sing it."Exactly where has Brian ever proclaimed to have written all of Innuendo himself? |
Boy Thomas Raker 06.06.2006 16:06 |
Post some quotes from the Innuendo era, Scott. I've seen quotes from Brian referring to Freddie for the MIH album where he downed vodka, and only for the song TSMGO from Innuendo. I'm sure Freddie was in pain, but to interpret Brian as painting himself as the leader is a stretch. Look at Freddie in the Headlong and Slightly Mad videos. There's nothing to him. For the record, Brian called Freddie's voice and efforts "superhuman" when he sang Mother Love. Doesn't sound like a guy looking to establish himself as a leader, unless you interpret it that he directed and got the vocals out of Freddie. |
it was electric7 06.06.2006 16:16 |
Brian doesn't like Bohemian Rhapsody or does not think its genious? Now that is a bit SAD |
Scott_Mercury 06.06.2006 16:17 |
The "vodka drinking" that Brian refers to has always been during the Innuendo sessions... on VH1 Rock honors the other night, Brian referred to it while recording The Show Must Go On. Lets make something clear. Brian never directly says "I rule, I'm the leader" nor are any cuts of Freddie songs direct cuts. They are...well...Innuendo's. Brian is way too smart to make direct insults about Freddie or his songs... as lets be honest, Freddie to 99% of the world is Queen.... Brian knows this, and it no doubt bothers him. So Brian will never say... "Freddie's song suck..mine are better"... he does say that....just in a polite, tasteful manner. For example, "Queen Rocks" a compilation of Queen "rock songs" compiled long after Freddie's death... with control overseen by Brian, was a compilation of 18 Queen songs...13 written by Brian. I don't think if the Queen fans were polled, this is the collection of songs that the fans would say "rock".... I think this is a Brian self serving album personally. Brian seems to get very short when an interviewer wants to discuss the popularity of Bo Rhap. Brian is very quick to tell anyone how weak and feable Freddie was the last years of his life and how Freddie just told them to "bring him anything, he'd sing it." If Freddie truly did say in the last 3 years of his life "bring me anything, I'll sing it".... he must have been looking at a mirror when he said it, as he wrote at least half of the last 2 albums himself. |
skiqueen 06.06.2006 16:54 |
y would brian do something like that? when he said freddie drank vodka while recording, i think he wanted to tell the world how strong freddie was near the end and how badly he wanted to resume with singing and give the world more of their music.....brian always speaks so highly of freddie, and NO ONE was leader of Queen, not brian, not freddie, roger or john...if brian thought that he was the leader, Queen would have broken up |
deleted user 06.06.2006 18:54 |
Scott, you are rushing headlong... You are getting worked up, but it is just you trying to figure out how Brian feels. You have too little knowledge about the situation to attack him. |
mayniac316 06.06.2006 18:55 |
^ My thoughts exactly. |
Adam Baboolal 06.06.2006 19:19 |
See, personally, I think people like Scott want to see these things. But not because they don't like Brian. Reading a little more closely at his post I see the line, "...as lets be honest, Freddie to 99% of the world is Queen...". I would never think any one of them as Queen. Not even Freddie! We love Freddie, but don't lose perspective. Now, these two quotes about freddie singing anything given to him and the vodka one. How in god's name do you see them as negative?? Talk about out of context! 1) The vodka quote - to me is about Freddie drinking to take pain away and allowing him to ignore it. Never heard the expression, drink your troubles away? Or where they show a guy in films drinking before getting a painful operation or procedure done... 2) The one about singing anything given to him - that relates directly to songs like SMGO and Mother Love. They were both collaborating and wanted to get as much done as possible. Hence the, give me anything and I'll sing it, line. Freddie wanted to keep working and they all banded together to get as much done as was humanly possible. It's not a friggin' conspiracy folks. And yeah, Queen rocks is a Brian dominated album. But I could care less as the music is still the same. And hmm... don't we dislike compilations anyway? So why should it matter!? Anyway, I find some of these kind of comments a little unsettling. The notion that Brian would big himself up over Freddie? Nah, I really think that's reaching... and for what? I really don't know. Peace, Adam. |
KingMercury 06.06.2006 20:12 |
bijou was written by brian may the part wich freddie sings is "you and me", the lyric from a freddie song the music from bijou is brian's, the lirycs is freddie's |
rocks. 06.06.2006 20:12 |
Queenslut wrote: I think that, deep down inside, Brian also suspects that, without Freddie, Queen probably would never have made it.Brian does not speculate this, he flat out acknowledges it!!! "BM: It's a very interesting question and I often think, you know, if it hadn't been for Freddie, where would I be? In probably a very different place. I would probably be an astronomer or something. Freddie did have this way of kind of catching you up in his enthusiasm. And actually when we first formed the band, me and Roger were pretty disillusioned about the Rock Business, you know." Go to bm.com and its part three of that cynthia fox interview. I dont think, that in Brian's eyes, he is putting Freddie down in his last years in terms of song writing, I htink Brian is trying to show that even through Freddie having this pretty much crippling disease, he was so dedicated to his music and very much wanting to complete as many songs as he can, which is probably why Freddie was the primary writer on so many of the songs on the last two albums. Brian saying things like "he would just down a couple of vodkas and prop himself up on this desk like this, and forget about his pain for a while and sing unbelievably, force things out of his body that were quite superhuman" ( link ) is his way of acknowledging that Freddie was doing this, and doing it great, thorugh his pain. Which I think is amazing, and Freddie should be etternally commended for it. |
FriedChicken 06.06.2006 20:24 |
Even if Freddie wrote 6 or so song, why does that say the quote Brian said is untrue. Freddie knew he didn't have much time left, so he asked the other guys to work as hard as possible. I'm sure Freddie lived longer than he thought, so he was able to write more songs than he first thought he would. |
it was electric7 06.06.2006 20:46 |
I honestly don't think that Brian would say something like that or mean to say something in such a bad way. |
Scott_Mercury 06.06.2006 20:55 |
Guys, I am not one of those "Freddie only" fans...nor do I think of the other 4 members as Freddie's back up band. Queen, as in the 4 of them, were one of the greatest bands on the planet...seperate, they were average at best. There is no doubt in the world that Brian May is a undeniably talented musician. I am a pretty advanced guitarist myself, trust me, I can appreciate the talent of Brian May. Ignore my user name "Scott_Mercury"... it just as easy could have been Deacon, Taylor, or May. Brian at times has said nice things about Freddie, and yes, Brian has said on a number of occassions, as Roger has.... there would have been no Queen without Freddie. Smile would have been some long forgotton band that only a handful of people in the area where they played would have even remembered. Remember my topic that I started... it focuses on opinions Brian has given on how he remembers the Innuendo time frame. As Sebastian said "Brian speaks of Freddie like he was a disabled twat who couldn't write a thing" When Fred first died, Brian and Roger spoke as though it was their band that they allowed Freddie to be the singer in, and talked as though all the songs were theirs... Later, maybe after they remembered who wrote: Bo Rhap, Killer Queen, Bicycle Race, Don't Stop me now, Crazy Little thing called love, Somebody to Love, Good Old Fashion Lover Boy, Play The Game, Seven Seas Of Rhye, Liar, In The Lap of The Gods, March Of the Black Queen, Don't Try So Hard, We are the Champions, Under Pressure, Innuendo, It's a hard life, The Miracle, I'm Going Slightly Mad, Princess of the Universe, Death on two legs, Love Of My Life, You Take My Breath Away, Jealousy, Nevermore...the list goes on... They later quit the "Freddie sang in our band" crap, and sort of said...well, there at the end Freddie said "bring me anything and I'll sing it." If Freddie would have waited for the others to bring him songs to sing, that would make for a short recording session, as he could probably knock down their 3 songs in a few days. This whole thread is about one thing....I feel Brian and to some degree Roger, but especially Brian, downgrade what musical powerhouse Freddie was, while just months away from death. I have no problem with the 3 surviving members taking their turn in the spotlight, they deserve it.... but I feel Freddie has not gotten proper writing credit on the Miracle and Innuendo. |
Sebastian 06.06.2006 20:56 |
> In my mind, Brian's quotes do not preclude the possibility of Freddie being *both* the primary songwriter and an enthusiastic guy who said 'just give me shit I'll sing it'. Very true. > For instance, he has even tried to downplay "Bohemian Rhapsody". In scores of interviews where he mentions the song, not once I've seen him putting it down. Something I do agree with him at is that, marvellous as it is, Bo Rhap is not the only masterpiece in Queen. I wish (and I'm sure that's his point in such quotes) the public eye could be aware of things like White Queen, '39, Teo Torriatte ... all of them extraordinary. Or (imo) You And I, Modern Times RnR, My Life Has Been Saved, Drowse, Lily Of The Valley ... > He'll downplay Bo Rhap, then go on to rave about how awesome "39" is.... '39 is awesome indeed. The best Queen song imo. > He'll say he was suprised that "Don't Stop me now" is rated so high among the fans... Roger said he was surprised Seven Seas was a hit (although he liked it), and considered Keep Yourself to be much more accesible. Does that mean too that Roger hated Freddie? > Brian has said on no less then 10 occasions about Freddie's pain and continiously drinking vodka during the Innuendo sessions. Having some vodka before nailing the hit parts of Show Must Go On is completely different to be "continiously [sic] drinking vodka during the Innuendo sessions". > Brian goes on to boast about how he wrote all of Innuendo himself... With the only probable exception of The Show Must Go On (which he credited to the band in '91 and now claims solely to himself), Brian's been quite fair when creditting: he said that one of his favourite songs is Don't Try So Hard and admitted Fred wrote it. He did the same a decade ago about All God's People. > Brian seems to get very short when an interviewer wants to discuss the popularity of Bo Rhap. Even Freddie was sometimes avoiding the subject to be brought for millionth time, and it doesn't mean he hated himself or his magnum opus. > and NO ONE was leader of Queen, not brian, not freddie, roger or john... That's what they said, and it showed a great amount of integrity especially when they knew that (at least in musical aspects) it was obviously Freddie. > the music from bijou is brian's, the lirycs is freddie's Brian himself said in his soapbox that both Freddie and himself worked on the guitar bits. Moreover the keyboard parts are Fred's so that means the chords over which they both created the melodies are Freddie's. Fred's the chief songwriter of 'Bijou' although Brian contributed as well. > I'm sure Freddie lived longer than he thought, so he was able to write more songs than he first thought he would. That's indeed a very good point. > When Fred first died, Brian and Roger spoke as though it was their band that they allowed Freddie to be the singer in, and talked as though all the songs were theirs... About the first point I disagree (although I hate their recent comments on Paul Rodgers era), about the second, they meant Show Must Go On and Days Of Our Lives. And I understand them: most people (including Elton John) thought Fred had written those songs because of the lyrics. It was unfair to take away their arguably best compositions, they wanted to show the world the two of them were able to come up with beautiful lyrics as those (and many others) without Freddie. And I agree; indeed, Mercury didn't have much to do with either (as opposed to Ga Ga or Magic). What many fans believed from then on (and it's the fandom's fault, not Brian's or Roger's) is that Fred wasn't able to write anymore, and therefore credit such obviously Mercury pieces like Innuendo or Was It All Worth It to Roger and Brian. But neither May nor Taylor ever claimed them to themselves, so it's not their fault. > If Freddie would have waited for the others to bring him songs |
Adam Baboolal 06.06.2006 21:22 |
Truly excellent post Seb! Peace, Adam. |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 06.06.2006 21:26 |
Scott and Sebastian, Although your points of view are kind of negative, you are both dead right. I also think that a lot of Queen fans are so in awe of all four Queen members that they are not able to see what you have pointed out so clearly. In fact, Brian is very insecure with regard to being compared to Freddie as a songwriter. It would not surprise me if Brian did not wish that Freddie had not even written many of the "Queen's Greatest Hits" songs, such as "Bicycle Race", "Don't Stop Me Now", "Somebody to Love", "Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy", "Killer Queen", "Play the Game" and Seven Seas of Rhye". After all, when was the last time you remember any of these songs being included in a concert or "Queen" performance that Brian May was involved in? Furthermore, Brian himself must be sick to death of hearing "Fat Bottomed Girls", "We Will Rock You" and "Tie Your Mother Down". On the other hand, because "Bohemian Rhapsody", "We Are the Champions" and "Crazy Little Thing" are such massive hits, he knows that he has to include these in set lists, even if they are played next to some of his non-hits, such as "Las Palabras de Amor" or "Too Much Love Will Kill You". |
john bodega 06.06.2006 21:40 |
Scott_Mercury you see what you want to see. It's a high possibility that he gets 'short' when people mention Bohemian Rhapsody, because - well, look, it's the same problem Alec Guiness had. He had a catalogue of mighty work, yet the only thing people asked him about was "Star Wars". Wouldn't that piss you off??? I'm sure it was a breath of fresh air when Courtney Murphy (some Idol contestant in Australia) rather than saying 'let's sing Bohemian Rhapsody', chose to sing something as relatively obscure as Sleeping On the Sidewalk. You're taking quotes out of context, you are inventing your own scenario. You'd like it to be so dramatic, but maybe it isn't? For the record, Freddie apparently loved vodka, so what if he took a little to numb the pain? And since Brian was saying Freddie could only work around an hour before becoming too ill... how drunk can you get in an hour anyway? If you want to make stuff like this up, become an author. Otherwise, give the guy a break, he watched his colleague of 20 years turn into a skeleton. |
Cwazy little thing 06.06.2006 21:45 |
I think more likely that when Brian makes reference to Freddie's condition in the stages of Innuendo, he's more likely trying to highlight the strength of will and character it must have taken him to still want to do an album even though he was dying, and was a shadow of his former self; most people would have buggered off somewhere and given up. I dont think its fair for anyone to interpret Brian's comments in any other way, cos thats a deeply hurtful thing to suggest, and is unfair to Brian, who is more attempting to highlight how fantastic an acheivement Innuendo was for Freddie, than to suggest he was a cripple who just got pissed and sang. Lets be reasonable. |
Scott_Mercury 06.06.2006 22:03 |
Again, read my posts...on a personal level, I think Brian and Freddie loved each other, and losing Freddie was like losing a brother to Brian. No doubt. Sebastian nailed it... Brian's mistake is he leaves open questions that sounds as though he did more than he did...and that Freddie did less then he actually did. Leading some (like me) to believe that Brian would probably preferred Fred not being such a dominant writer/frontman, as it may sometimes overshadow his own talents. To all of you arguing with me, and thats ok...I love a good debate... but remember.. It most bands, Brian would have been "the man"... had it not been for Freddie, Brian would have been the equivelent in Queen what Pete Townsend was to The Who. I myself believe Freddie is the reason why Brian is not thought of as equal to, nor is he a household name such as Townsend, Clapton, Hendrix, Joe Walsh, Ted Nugent, Stevie Ray Vaughan... etc..etc... Had Freddie wrote at the rate that John and Roger did, then 85% of all Queen albums would have been Brian May songs.... No Freddie (or no Freddie writing) would mean that Brian would have been thought of as the absolute leader. Brian May is not a household name. My mother could not tell you Queen's guitar players name... but she sure knows Freddie Mercury. Brian is fully aware of all of this. But Brian is a smart enough bloke to realize that without his meeting up with Freddie, the world more then likely would have never known him as a rock star.... Everyone says Queen is 4 equal members, but whether that band made it or not was not dependent upon John Deacon. Roger Taylor?? I think not. Brian? He's a good guitar player, but there is alot of good guitar players. It took Freddie to make Queen...well, Queen. |
rocks. 06.06.2006 22:17 |
Cwazy little thing wrote: I think more likely that when Brian makes reference to Freddie's condition in the stages of Innuendo, he's more likely trying to highlight the strength of will and character it must have taken him to still want to do an album even though he was dying, and was a shadow of his former self; most people would have buggered off somewhere and given up. I dont think its fair for anyone to interpret Brian's comments in any other way, cos thats a deeply hurtful thing to suggest, and is unfair to Brian, who is more attempting to highlight how fantastic an acheivement Innuendo was for Freddie, than to suggest he was a cripple who just got pissed and sang. Lets be reasonable.Hit the nail right on the head, what I was trying to say in better words. I think brian was trying to hi-lite just how hard Freddie worked in those final years, and good on both Freddie and Brian. |
Bambi 06.06.2006 22:29 |
when ya'll think of queen who stands out formost in your mind? freddie? also i have a collectors mag i bought in august 2005 it's guitar ledgends, it's totally about queen, and bri's interview at times downplays freddie not all but you can read a little between the lines, i loved queen since 1975, but i agree on some points that bri is maybe a little touchy on some things freddie has done. |
kdj2hot 07.06.2006 00:12 |
Come on, we all sense the Sibling rivalry between Brian and Freddie. I think more on Brian's part than Freddie's but, obviously, I wasn't in the Queen inner circle. I guess that they all had egos and Brian sometimes feel he have to fight to let people know that Queen is more than Freddie because in all bands the singer usually gets the attention. Brian probably feels he have to play down Freddie's input just to hammer home that Queen wasn't just one guy. I never heard him say anything bad about Freddie though. |
Scott_Mercury 07.06.2006 00:31 |
kdj2hot wrote: Come on, we all sense the Sibling rivalry between Brian and Freddie. I think more on Brian's part than Freddie's but, obviously, I wasn't in the Queen inner circle. I guess that they all had egos and Brian sometimes feel he have to fight to let people know that Queen is more than Freddie because in all bands the singer usually gets the attention. Brian probably feels he have to play down Freddie's input just to hammer home that Queen wasn't just one guy. I never heard him say anything bad about Freddie though.Exactly... And given the same circumstance, not only would we all do the same thing, but we might not do it with as much tact as Brian does. Brian, maybe in his older age...is just making it soooo obvious lately. What about the video floating around here from a few months back where Brian got all pissed off because an interviewer wanted to show him some kids singing Bo Rhap in a school play... Now I can here you all now... "Brian's seen that shit 1,000 before"..... But you know what, that song alone (which Brian hates no doubt) has made Brian millions of dollars.... Shit, I'll sit through a 30 second clip of just about anything if you pay me the equivelent of Brian's cut of Freddie's song. However, if that interviewer wanted to show Brian footage of a all gay boys volleyball team working out to "Dancer".... Our Brian would have got super interested.. not in the boys (thats Freds department) but in the fact that someone was recognizing one of **his** songs. I would easily say that Brian and Roger are easily the most insecure of the group. Freddie was secure, he knew he was the real deal, an John, that dog is all business.... get in..and get the F out. John stepped in, took over the accounting duties... wrote Spread Your Wings, AOBTD, I want to Break Free, You're My Best Friend... all smash hits, 3 of which are some of Queen's most successful songs... John, not stupid, sees Freddie early as a big brother, and the reason people come to see the show.... Freddie dies... John is saddened on a personal level, on a business level he assumes the show is over as the main attraction is dead...he's out. John is much, much, more accepting of the fact that Freddie was the star then the other 2 are. Maybe because John can't sing?? Who knows. Brian just seems like a jealous little brother to me, and for whtever reason, it got worse after Freddie died... Maybe because death at a young age etched in stone Freddie's lengendary status to that of a Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin..etc..etc.. |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 01:09 |
Spread Your Wings was far from being a smash hit |
M a t i a s M a y 07.06.2006 01:50 |
LISTEN TO THE MAD MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN ahsisi |
mike hunt 07.06.2006 02:13 |
I think brians popularity is increasing a bit, more people are mentioning brian may as a rock god these days. He still has a way to go, david lee roth even forgot his name on his radio show a few months back. I usually agree with scott mercury, but not this time. brian talks like he's truly grateful to freddie for all he's done for him, he commented at the rock honors "if bo rhap wasn't the huge hit it was, we probably would have broken up" so, I think brian knows if it wasn't for freddie songwriting queen never would have never made it. |
deleted user 07.06.2006 03:38 |
Brian always was a big creative force in Queen and it is natural that he felt the competition with Freddie. This competition is what pushes them to come up with brilliant songs. It is also natural during 30 years of collaboration that his feelings about it changes. Sometimes you would be happy about, sometimes you would be very disappointed. It seems to me you are trying to make this a John versus Paul, but I still only see a worldfamous and very proud member of Queen who celebrates the legacy of Freddie whenever he gets the chance. Ofcourse the songs he wrote himself mean more to him. If you write songs and play in a band you will understand. |
Winter Land Man 07.06.2006 04:05 |
Sebastian wrote: Spread Your Wings was far from being a smash hitHe said THREE of which. But I haven't a clue if he edited it. |
john bodega 07.06.2006 05:16 |
Sorry, the theory sounds like bullshit. I've read too much of what the guy says for any of this crap to ring true. And as for the Bohemian Rhapsody video that guy wanted Brian to watch, yeah - good call. Never mind the lousy timing of the guy showing to him, or the trouble they had getting it to run, or the fact that it was probably dead boring anyway. This thread is bumpkis! |
deleted user 07.06.2006 06:40 |
Zebonka12 wrote: Sorry, the theory sounds like bullshit. I've read too much of what the guy says for any of this crap to ring true. This thread is bumpkis!I would agree if only I knew what bumpkis means... |
FriedChicken 07.06.2006 07:59 |
"> If Freddie would have waited for the others to bring him songs to sing... If Freddie had waited for the others to write, The Miracle would consist of Breakthru (without intro), Invisible Man, Scandal and an instrumental Rain Must Fall. Juicy! Innuendo would have consisted of Headlong, I Can't Live With You, Days Of Our Lives and Ride The Wild Wind, and Made In Heaven would have been instrumental versions of Mother Love and You Don't Fool Me." Indeed! Freddie was a very dedicated, enthousiastic and hard working musician. I don't think he could've enjoyed himself if he decided to be lazy and let all the others do the writing. This ofcourse doesn't mean that he was arrogant, or thought that his songs were better. But it means that he loved music, and that it was his life. Even if he was in terrible pain in the last months of his life he didn't want to stay in bed. He wanted to sing, so in the end, when he thought he didn't have time left to write songs he said to the rest to write songs and work there asses of so he could sing. But as we all know he lived longer than he expected (his doctor said he wouldn't live to see the release of The Miracle) so there was time to write songs (sometimes together with another member) |
rocks. 07.06.2006 08:16 |
Scott_Mercury wrote:What about the video floating around here from a few months back where Brian got all pissed off because an interviewer wanted to show him some kids singing Bo Rhap in a school play...[/quote] |
Erin 07.06.2006 08:18 |
Scott_Mercury wrote: Everyone says Queen is 4 equal members, but whether that band made it or not was not dependent upon John Deacon. Roger Taylor?? I think not. Brian? He's a good guitar player, but there is alot of good guitar players. It took Freddie to make Queen...well, Queen.That's a bunch of shit. It was the union of the 4 that made Queen...well, Queen. Go listen to Mr. Bad Guy, dear. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 08:24 |
Freddie was not Queen. Brian and Roger are capable of making music together that musically will sound like Queen. In many ways Brians guitar defines the Queen sound to me more than anything. To suggest that Brian is just a "good" guitar player is absurd. Nobody could replace Brian. Yes there are others who are better technical guitarists but they lack the emotion that Brian puts into his playing. |
Adam Baboolal 07.06.2006 08:43 |
Zebonka12 wrote: And as for the Bohemian Rhapsody video that guy wanted Brian to watch, yeah - good call. Never mind the lousy timing of the guy showing to him, or the trouble they had getting it to run, or the fact that it was probably dead boring anyway.See, there's another thing Scott has taken completely out of context. You're letting the uninformed read something thinking it was that straight and narrow. But at least I can just about remember the video and probably still have it. Brian arrives for an interview and almost leaves at one point because rather than sit and listen to unoriginal questions, he could be doing the soundcheck for the gig that night AND still have time for a well deserved rest. But no, he decided to see if the interview would go anywhere interesting. It didn't and when they decided to show a video of no consequence, he decided, there are better things to be doing with this time! So, once again, you've taken something completely out of context. I think I should go and find the video and repost it as this kind of thing is annoying. You're trying to link something and make it appear as if it's directly because of an insecurity. I'm starting to wonder about this... Peace, Adam. |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 08:48 |
> Brian always was a big creative force in Queen and it is natural that he felt the competition with Freddie. To be fair, it was Freddie who first felt competition, in the pre-Queen days: the way Brian and Tim had come up with beautiful songs like Earth and Step On Me prompted Freddie into try to write more and more songs. > It seems to me you are trying to make this a John versus Paul It's totally different. Regarding The Beatles, some albums had John as the dominant songwriter, some others had Paul. It was quite balanced although at the end of the day John wrote some more. Regarding Queen, Freddie was always the dominant songwriter except for Races, Game and Magic (where he shared that honour with Brian, even though Fred wrote the central pieces of those albums), and except News Of The World where he was outnumbered by Brian. On the remaining ten albums (plus Made In Heaven which is a compilation more than a proper album) Freddie was the chief songwriter. So it's more an Axl vs Slash :) > Ofcourse the songs he wrote himself mean more to him. And that's not even that way: note how proud was Brian about The Miracle, It's A Hard Life or Love Of My Life. > Brian and Roger are capable of making music together that musically will sound like Queen. I totally disagree. Queen were the four of them, not Brian+Roger or Freddie+Roger or Freddie+John or Brian+John etc Regarding Mr Bad Guy: Fred deliberately wanted it to sound outside Queen format. Even more with Barcelona. It doesn't mean he couldn't sound Queen-esque without the others. Same for Roger: Electric Fire was outside the band's sound because he wanted it that way (and it's still probably my favourite album of all-time together with Spice World). Brian wanted to keep the Queen sound for his solo albums, and so he did (only that the albums resulted imo better than anything Queen did), but of course Roger and Freddie could have done something similar as well. > He said THREE of which. Sorry, my mistake. > This ofcourse doesn't mean that he was arrogant, or thought that his songs were better. I agree. Note how most of the people who've worked with the band have commented that Fred was supportive of the others' songwriting as much as he was of his own. According to Mary, he let himself go when he couldn't write music anymore. His life was his work. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 08:49 |
Of course Brian is highly insecure. Isn't it evident that there is some ego-struggle between Brian and Freddie, even 15 years after Freddie's death? Brian May is a very very insecure, thin-skinned man. He's always been this way. I think it is possible that Brian could have deeply loved Freddie, and miss him very much, AND also selfishly want to be portrayed as the best song-writer/musician of the band. Human beings are complex creatures. I agree with Scott Mercury. There definitely is something in the mind of Brian May that leads him to silently, subconsciously resent Freddie's dominant role? Imagine you are Brian, and all your rock n roll career, you have been always overlooked by the general public compared to Freddie Mercury. Freddie stole all the lime-light, and attention. Even after his death, Freddie is now a real Rock N Roll "god". I think Scott is correct. Brian May, as nice as he is, is a thin skinned, insecure, and egotistical man. But he's a great guitarist, great song-writer, and I really do love all members of the band equally. And I do not say this to disrespect Brian May. But Brian is Brian. It does no good to paint Brian in a single color, when really, he was just human, with complex shades. |
Scott_Mercury 07.06.2006 08:53 |
Erin wrote:Dear, lets let the English put dear at the end of their sentences, ok dear??Scott_Mercury wrote: Everyone says Queen is 4 equal members, but whether that band made it or not was not dependent upon John Deacon. Roger Taylor?? I think not. Brian? He's a good guitar player, but there is alot of good guitar players. It took Freddie to make Queen...well, Queen.That's a bunch of shit. It was the union of the 4 that made Queen...well, Queen. Go listen to Mr. Bad Guy, dear. Or maybe Freddie, dear? If you read one of my post... it said the 4 of them were one of the greatest bands together, when they did albums apart... they were average at best. Dear. Dear = trying to be Freddie |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 08:53 |
Erin wrote:No it is not shit.Scott_Mercury wrote: Everyone says Queen is 4 equal members, but whether that band made it or not was not dependent upon John Deacon. Roger Taylor?? I think not. Brian? He's a good guitar player, but there is alot of good guitar players. It took Freddie to make Queen...well, Queen.That's a bunch of shit. It was the union of the 4 that made Queen...well, Queen. Go listen to Mr. Bad Guy, dear. It is shit to think all 4 are equal in importance. This is not true. Freddie Mercury was undeniably the biggest and most important part of Queen. True, Freddie alone wasn't Queen, but he was more Queen than any other member alone. I'd say the ratio breaks down as such: Freddie: 55% Brian: 35% Roger: 5% John: 5% |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 08:58 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: True, Freddie alone wasn't Queen, but he was more Queen than any other member alone. I'd say the ratio breaks down as such: Freddie: 55% Brian: 35% Roger: 5% John: 5%Now that is a bunch of shit. All 4 members are equally important. Queen are not Queen without any of them. Brian and Roger are more than capable of making music that sounds like Queen. I am not talking about vocals, simply the music. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:00 |
Scott_Mercury wrote: Dear, lets let the English put dear at the end of their sentences, ok dear?? Or maybe Freddie, dear? If you read one of my post... it said the 4 of them were one of the greatest bands together, when they did albums apart... they were average at best. Dear. Dear = trying to be FreddieWhat exactly crawled up your ass? |
Erin 07.06.2006 09:04 |
Scott_Mercury wrote: Dear = trying to be FreddieRiiiiight.. How's this then? Go listen to Mr. Bad Child, sugah. Didn't know Freddie had a patent on the word dear. I bet he made an absolute fortune off of that. Wonder if he did the same with darling..hmm.. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 09:04 |
PieterMC wrote:You don't get it, do you?SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: True, Freddie alone wasn't Queen, but he was more Queen than any other member alone. I'd say the ratio breaks down as such: Freddie: 55% Brian: 35% Roger: 5% John: 5%Now that is a bunch of shit. All 4 members are equally important. Queen are not Queen without any of them. Brian and Roger are more than capable of making music that sounds like Queen. I am not talking about vocals, simply the music. Brian and Roger may make music that sound like Queen, but without Freddie's vocals, who cares? Brian and Roger can make all the songs they want. And they tried, as individuals. And they failed. Do you get it now? Do you see why Freddie is so important? However, if Freddie were still alive, and another member died (sorry horrible thought but I am trying to make a point), say John Deacon, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely. If Roger Taylor died, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely. Because Freddie's vocals stil were there. And that is a huge part of Queen. And Brian's guitar playing is still there. The four band members MIGHT be loved equally by their fans (At least for me), BUT they were not equal components that make up Queen. Queen was mostly Freddie, a good part Brian, and John and Roger filled the rest. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:05 |
Actually he does. I just checked with the patent office in the UK and Freddie registered them in 1976. You have to get written permission from Fred himself to use them. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:06 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: However, if Freddie were still alive, and another member died (sorry horrible thought but I am trying to make a point), say John Deacon, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely. If Roger Taylor died, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely.No on both accounts and yes I do "get it" Oh and Freddie just had so much success as a solo artist..... |
Erin 07.06.2006 09:08 |
PieterMC wrote: Actually he does. I just checked with the patent office in the UK and Freddie registered them in 1976. You have to get written permission from Fred himself to use them.Well, dammit, how am I supposed to get that now?? :-S |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 09:08 |
Pieter, if you think all four members of Queen were EQUAL in importance to Queen, then can you say the same thing about other bands? The Beatles? Guns N Roses? Rolling Stones? Then can we apply that logic to any group, an Organization? A corporation? I think you'll see the flaw in your logic. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 09:10 |
PieterMC wrote:And where do you get this idea from that four members MUST be equal?SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: However, if Freddie were still alive, and another member died (sorry horrible thought but I am trying to make a point), say John Deacon, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely. If Roger Taylor died, would Queen still be Queen? Absolutely.No on both accounts and yes I do "get it" Oh and Freddie just had so much success as a solo artist..... Where do you get this from? That is illogical. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:21 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Pieter, if you think all four members of Queen were EQUAL in importance to Queen, then can you say the same thing about other bands? The Beatles? Guns N Roses? Rolling Stones? Then can we apply that logic to any group, an Organization? A corporation? I think you'll see the flaw in your logic.I don't recall all members of any of the above groups having written hit singles. Do you? That's what makes Queen so different to most other bands. I never said they MUST be equal. I said that it's not Queen without any of them. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 07.06.2006 09:25 |
PieterMC wrote:If you measure a member's importance to a band by the # of hit singles they wrote, then compare how many hit single's Freddie wrote, and how many the other members wrote. I disagree with your criteria by the way. A member's song-writing ability is not the only measure of worth. In Queen's case, all four were good song writers, but they all did not have the same # of hit songs.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Pieter, if you think all four members of Queen were EQUAL in importance to Queen, then can you say the same thing about other bands? The Beatles? Guns N Roses? Rolling Stones? Then can we apply that logic to any group, an Organization? A corporation? I think you'll see the flaw in your logic.I don't recall all members of any of the above groups having written hit singles. Do you? I never said they MUST be equal. I said that it's not Queen without any of them. So therefore, they cannot be equal using your criteria of hit singles as a measure of a member's worth. In any case, you've been proven wrong by your own definition. You just are wrong. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:26 |
Erin wrote:Your screwed. Scott_Mercury will probably also be hearing from Freddies lawyers for using the name Mercury.PieterMC wrote: Actually he does. I just checked with the patent office in the UK and Freddie registered them in 1976. You have to get written permission from Fred himself to use them.Well, dammit, how am I supposed to get that now?? :-S |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:27 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: You just are wrong.In your deluded opinion. The singles comment was mearly to point out that your idea that Roger and John only contributed 5% toward being Queen is simply absurd. |
Adam Baboolal 07.06.2006 09:34 |
It's getting a bit off-topic now, but what the hey. It's a damned shame to see poor Rog and John being treated as if they're only worth such a small amount to Queen. 5% each?? If you added a different drummer and bassist, man... would it be different. John's eloquent bass playing and Roger's particular drumming style. It's hard to imagine there are Queen FANS that believe they were so little of Queen. Peace, Adam. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:36 |
I remember reading an article about John in a bass magazine where they said that he is the most underrated bass player in rock. You can't just throw any old drummer and bass player in there and claim that its still Queen. |
Erin 07.06.2006 09:38 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: It's getting a bit off-topic now, but what the hey. It's a damned shame to see poor Rog and John being treated as if they're only worth such a small amount to Queen. 5% each?? If you added a different drummer and bassist, man... would it be different. John's eloquent bass playing and Roger's particular drumming style. It's hard to imagine there are Queen FANS that believe they were so little of Queen.Absolutely, darlin'! I can say "darlin'" without patent infringment, can't I?? JOHN AND ROGER ROCK!! :-) |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 09:39 |
Erin wrote: I can say "darlin'" without patent infringment, can't I??Yes but be careful. You cannot saying "darling". |
Erin 07.06.2006 09:40 |
PieterMC wrote:See..I made it Southern by removing the "g". Loophole. ;-DErin wrote: I can say "darlin'" without patent infringment, can't I??Yes but be careful. You cannot saying "darling". |
Mr Faron Hyte 07.06.2006 09:48 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: It's getting a bit off-topic now, but what the hey. It's a damned shame to see poor Rog and John being treated as if they're only worth such a small amount to Queen. 5% each?? If you added a different drummer and bassist, man... would it be different. John's eloquent bass playing and Roger's particular drumming style. It's hard to imagine there are Queen FANS that believe they were so little of Queen. Peace, Adam.And don't forget their songwriting and Roger's many excellent vocal contributions. This whole thread appears to stem from a disgrunted member of the Cult of Fred. I think the obvious interpretation of the "give me anything to sing" quote is that Freddie wanted to make the most of his remaining time by giving the band the most material to work with, regardless of which one of them wrote it. That in no way suggests that Freddie wasn't writing and singing his own material as well, and I think to interpret that to mean that Brian is implying Freddie was a "deaf, dumb, and blind boy" who was incapable of writing new material is a total leap in logic and entirely in the mind of the person suggesting that interpretation. I have seen and read that quote for years and I have never once assumed it meant that Freddie was incapable of writing his own material in addition to what anyone else had to contribute. This entire thread is someone who likes Freddie more than Brian trying to find something to get mad about. That's it in a nutshell. There is and always will be two big camps among Queen fans - people, on the one hand, who see Queen as a creatively equal 4 way democratic partnership (which is how all four of the band members described it), and, on the other hand, people who see Queen as "Freddie Mercury plus three other guys" - meaning everything Freddie Mercury put his hands to was genius and everything else was either crap or Freddie really did it and gave someone else credit for it. That's at the core of what they believe, whether they'll admit it or not, and this is an argument that will continue to be had, couched in different terms, until doomsday. But anyone who suggests that Freddie Mercury isn't getting enough credit for Queen's success or somehow has gotten shafted for the band's success after his death, is smoking crack. Its that simple. If anything, he's gotten more credit and more accolades since his death than he ever got while he was alive. And suggesting that any of the three men who worked most closely with him for the better part of 20 years are trying to take credit away from him is pretty sad. Freddie's reputation is more than well established. Its a shame that some of his fans feel compelled to heap even more credit upon his memory, often at the expense of other people's contributions. Freddie certainly didn't do that. |
nationofhaircuts44 07.06.2006 09:54 |
Interesting debate - has anyone else ever thought it strange that at the FM Tribute Concert 92, which was introduced by Brian as "A tribute to the life and works of Freddie Mercury" only featured 4 songs written exclusively by Freddie, the first of which didn't appear until the 7th or 8th song, by which time they had played snippets from Pinball Wizard and Thank You. Just a thought. |
Erin 07.06.2006 10:09 |
How can John be less relevant that Freddie when he was the only one in the group that had a #1 record in 20 countries? link |
mayniac316 07.06.2006 10:12 |
Why does it matter if they only had 4 of Freddie's songs? It's a TRIBUTE concert. If they had used songs only written by Freddie it would have been like giving a eulogy that was written by the deceased. |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 10:34 |
> Brian and Roger are more than capable of making music that sounds like Queen. Yes, but so was Freddie. Mr Bad Guy sounded un-Queen because Fred wanted it. Same with Roger's Electric Fire or Fun In Space. > True, Freddie alone wasn't Queen, but he was more Queen than any other member alone. Indeed. Not only he was the singer and chief songwriter, but he was the main arranger (he was responsible for Roger's Ga Ga and Magic to be as they are) and he played the most important instrument of many of their masterpieces (Bo Rhap, Champions, Killer Queen...). > However, if Freddie were still alive, and another member died would Queen still be Queen? No. And it'd be (imo) utterly unethical for, say, Freddie and Brian, to tour with another drummer and another bassist and claim they're Queen. Or Brian and John, or Roger and John, or Freddie and Roger, or Freddie and John, or, of course, Brian and Roger. > Queen was mostly Freddie, a good part Brian, and John and Roger filled the rest. I totally disagree. Even if John's bass, Roger's drums and Fred's piano weren't at the foreground as Brian's guitar, they were just as important. > Oh and Freddie just had so much success as a solo artist..... For some extent he did: one solo #1 is much more than what Brian and Roger did. > The Beatles? I think the Beatles were the same as Queen in that matter: while it's obviously impossible that they all four were equally important (even if they were four clones they wouldn't be), I think they all four were irreplaceable. Beatles without Ringo: not The Beatles. Queen without Deacon: not Queen. And so on... > Guns N Roses? That one always worked as a football team, changing line-ups. Even if Izzy was such a wonderful songwriter, I can picture the band without him, especially because Gilby played all of his parts exactly the same. > A member's song-writing ability is not the only measure of worth. True. Let's see who dominated each field: - Songwriting: Freddie - Arrangements: Freddie - Production: Freddie (check Roy's comments) - Instruments: All four - Lead Vocals: Freddie - Backing Vocals: Freddie - Creative Art (such as the name of the band or the logo): Freddie > So therefore, they cannot be equal using your criteria of hit singles as a measure of a member's worth. It's not the only criteria, but one of them, yes. Queen were a superband because of Bo Rhap; Bo Rhap wouldn't have attracted so much attention if they weren't already internationally famous (even if they weren't superstars). And they were already successful because of Killer Queen. And KQ wouldn't have been a hit if they weren't already at least quite famous locally. And they were so because of Seven Seas. Now: who wrote those songs? who played the main instrument of those songs? who sang those songs? who was alongside Roy Baker and Mike Stone mixing those songs? who arranged those songs? who sang most of the backing vocals? > It's a damned shame to see poor Rog and John being treated as if they're only worth such a small amount to Queen. 5% each?? I agree. It's a ridiculous amount, they were much more important. > JOHN AND ROGER ROCK!! :-) My credo is: behind a great guitar sound, check out the drummer! Indeed, Brian himself has said that he always concentrated on Roger's snare as his rhythmic yardstick, and it meant everything. Without Roger, Brian wouldn't have sounded as he did. Same for John, or Freddie's piano (where there was). > And don't forget their songwriting and Roger's many excellent vocal contributions. And John's acoustic guitar playing, very nicely done and fairly underrated. > I think to interpret that to mean that Brian is implying Freddie was a "deaf, dumb, and blind boy" who was incapable of writing new material Brian didn't imply that, but the way he referred to Freddie and "write me anything" made many people think that. Perh |
Poo, again 07.06.2006 10:38 |
Now I'm pissed. Brian must die. |
Adam Baboolal 07.06.2006 11:00 |
Erin wrote: How can John be less relevant that Freddie when he was the only one in the group that had a #1 record in 20 countries? linkGo John! lol |
The Real Wizard 07.06.2006 11:02 |
Scott_Mercury wrote: When Fred first died, Brian and Roger spoke as though it was their band that they allowed Freddie to be the singer in, and talked as though all the songs were theirs...Man, you're just reaching... and I really don't know why. This is pure speculation on your part. Brian obviously knows he's not a household name, but I don't think he resents Freddie for that. Brian? He's a good guitar player, but there is alot of good guitar players.This is just pure crap. Brian is a huge element of Queen's sound. Do you think any other guitar player could have created All Dead All Dead, '39, and even Good Company? Give me a break. Those songs and many others are sheer genius on the part of Brian. This is an interesting discussion (well, it was for the first couple pages) with some good points brought up. But when it comes down to it, Freddie, while being the strongest creative force in the band, would not have created the Queen sound all on his own. The others, especially Brian, were key in creating that sound. Many brilliant musicians aren't household names. Look at Chet Atkins and his accomplishments: He was incredibly key in creating the Nashville sound as it is today, and he was referred to as "Mr Guitar". He is the most recorded solo instrumentalist in the history of music! I didn't know his name until a few months ago, and I've been a musician all my life. Ever since I've gotten into Chet, I've asked many people what they think of him, and nobody could tell me one detail about him. Only a couple had heard his name before. Most people only know of what's exposed to them in the mainstream. And to go slightly off topic, considering today's mainstream, that's a scary thought. |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 11:08 |
> Those songs and many others are sheer genius on the part of Brian. Yes, and that proves my point (Brianwas/is first a musician, second an arranger, third a composer, fourth a guitarist). Many bands probably have better guitar players than Brian, but how many have a guitarist who's, as an integral artist, as meticulous, professional and versatile as him? Probably some, but how many of those have got, on top of that, a singer/pianist with such creative genius, a bass-player with such beautiful compositions and a drummer able to compose such gems? |
Mr.Jingles 07.06.2006 11:23 |
This is by far one of the dumbest threads I've seen on this message board. There's been countless numbre of times when Brian has mentioned how corageous and brave Freddie was when it came to make the decision to keep recording despite his illness. Brian has also mentioned that Freddie could only work for a few hours everyday during the sessions for 'Innuendo' and 'Made In Heaven' and he deeply appreciates the enormous effort he made to keep working until he could not possibly give any more. Brian has also mentioned how proud he felt of Freddie for writing 'I'm Going Slightly Mad', and how dissapointed he felt at the fact that it was just a minor hit. Do you guys still think Brian is making up a bunch of bullshit stories to make himself look like the leader of the band? About Brian trying to take the lead, Brian does admit many times that there's been discussions in between band members about the musical direction they want to take, but guess what people?... that happens on every single fuckin' rock band because as individuals there will always be differences and disagreements. Brian also wanted to take a more hard rock direction during the 80s, while the rest of the band decided to take a more mainstream pop approach. Yet we never hear Brian ranting about the final outcome of their work, and he always mentions to feel very proud of all Queen has done and he has no regrets. I think you people are very ignorant, and choose to interpret comments in the most negative way. |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 11:26 |
Jingles for President 2008 |
nationofhaircuts44 07.06.2006 11:28 |
perhaps its just a personal thing then. I was quite disappointed by the set-list when I went. Although there couldnt be a better eulogy than a set full of Freddie songs! (IMHO) "Las Palabras"....dear oh dear |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 11:30 |
nationofhaircuts44 wrote: perhaps its just a personal thing then. I was quite disappointed by the set-list when I went. Although there couldnt be a better eulogy than a set full of Freddie songs! (IMHO) "Las Palabras"....dear oh dearI think that the tribute concert had more to do with what other singers were capable of singing rather than what are the best Queen / Freddie songs. There are very few good vocal performances from the tribute concert. I mean listen to Bohemian Rhapsody. It sucks. |
The Real Wizard 07.06.2006 11:32 |
PieterMC wrote: There are very few good vocal performances from the tribute concert. I mean listen to Bohemian Rhapsody. It sucks.Haha, yeah... could you imagine Elton trying to do the falsettos in BoRhap, instead of taking the lower octave? |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 12:31 |
> Brian has also mentioned how proud he felt of Freddie for writing 'I'm Going Slightly Mad', and how dissapointed he felt at the fact that it was just a minor hit. It was Roger who said that. > perhaps its just a personal thing then. I was quite disappointed by the set-list when I went. It's not only the set-list, but the actual artists as well. Iommi was Brian's friend, not Freddie's. Same for Axl, Slash and the Def Leppard blokes. |
Mr.Jingles 07.06.2006 13:09 |
Why whine about the Tribute concert set list? All those songs are mostly recognized for being Queen songs, and not for giving credit to the individual member who wrote then. So why were so many of Brian's songs at the Tribute? For the simple reason that rock/pop bands have a tendency to play on stage more of their heavy songs rather than their more radio friendly material. It just turns out to be that Brian wrote most of Queen's more rock oriented songs, that's all. |
Serry... 07.06.2006 13:35 |
Las Palabras De Amor is the best example of heavy songs... Who the hell needs in Freddie's Love Of My Life on Freddie's tribute when we have Las Palabras De Amor?! Huh... |
PieterMC 07.06.2006 13:44 |
I don't think Brian could have handled performing LOML at the tribute concert. |
john bodega 07.06.2006 13:45 |
"> Brian and Roger are capable of making music together that musically will sound like Queen. I totally disagree. Queen were the four of them, not Brian+Roger or Freddie+Roger or Freddie+John or Brian+John etc" Sebastian, I know completely what you mean here, but I think an exception would be "No One But You". Maybe it doesn't sound like Queen because it doesn't have a bombastic guitar solo or heavy Freddie overdubs, but just from a song writing point of view, it's a pretty good attempt at writing something like Freddie. May I point out, that SomebodyWhoLoves is a total bumpkin. What an idiot, I'd happily disregard anything this twat says, considering they wrote a thread about how women like to be dominated sexually. What a fuckwit! This thread is a ramshackle piece of shit largely because it spawned from total illogic. At the end of the day, no one in this thread is correct with regards to Brian's thoughts about Freddie because they're *Brian's thoughts*. And these numpties have cited Brian as evidence that he's some sort of bridesmaid and never the bride... FUCK YOU then, because I read the same quotes and got the opposite impression. Yes. I'm sure Brian feels *awful* at night, knowing he has his own unique guitar sound forever, irrefutable of how many numpties shit on him in internet forums. And I'm sure he gets a twinge and says "Oh I wish I was as big as Freddie" when he spies his Ivor Novello awards and what not. hahaha... this entire argument is a joke and those who support that numbecile viewpoint are the *punchline*. |
Sebastian 07.06.2006 16:32 |
> All those songs are mostly recognized for being Queen songs, and not for giving credit to the individual member who wrote then. It wasn't a tribute to Queen, it was (apparently) a tribute to Freddie. > For the simple reason that rock/pop bands have a tendency to play on stage more of their heavy songs rather than their more radio friendly material. Then why on tours there were more songs by Freddie? > Sebastian, I know completely what you mean here, but I think an exception would be "No One But You". They said it themselves "Queen are F, J, B and R. No One But You is another story" (or something like that). While I love the song (probably more than any Queen one), I see it as May+Taylor+Deacon, not as Queen. |
Mr.Jingles 07.06.2006 16:34 |
Here's Brian's e-mail address... brians.soapbox@clara.co.uk Just so you guys can ask him why he hasn't spent enough time kissing Freddie's ass. |
Mr.Jingles 07.06.2006 16:54 |
Sebastian wrote: It wasn't a tribute to Queen, it was (apparently) a tribute to Freddie.What difference does it make? How many Frank Sinatra and Elvis tributes have we seen, and yet almost every single one of "their" songs weren't written by them. The important thing is that these are the songs that were once sung by Freddie, and regardless of whether he received official credit for them or not, they're still songs that belonged to him as much as to any other member of the band. Sebastian wrote: Then why on tours there were more songs by Freddie?Set lists have been pretty split between Brian and Freddie, although their earlier set lists included more of Freddie's work. |
maxpower 07.06.2006 17:15 |
listen to the interview on the champions of the world video & you'll clearly see the eagerness in Brian's words & eyes , from the enthusiasm Freddie was showing in those final months "get me sing anything you want" - as brian also said on the same interview "they had some really great times" & "they did a little bit more & little bit more" & "you never knew when the last bit was going to be" - now i havent watched the video in years - but that part is still etched in my memory oh & to end the "vodka drinking" part was referring to Freddie singing the middle eight of "Mother Love" ... in other words "im drinking this vodka & im gonna go for this in one take" well thats my philosophy, lay off Brian |
maxpower 07.06.2006 17:21 |
ive just read thru the rest of the pages, why do these so called fans disect the band? takes brians guitar away no Queen end of fucking story all 4 were equal - each can have their favourite - brian is mine as i musically prefer the heavier style paul is my favourite beatle - but that dosent say that george contributed any less, to john or ringo for that matter |
deleted user 07.06.2006 17:40 |
At first it was interesting. Then it became annoying. Now it is embarassing. Mr Jingles I am completly with you on this. I can't even begin to argue about the Tribute concert. Read MrJingles' posts once more if you don't get it. Brian, Roger, John and Freddie are Queen. Look at the banner up to the left on this page. See how they are one. A group. Queen. |
rocks. 07.06.2006 21:41 |
to the total asswipe that suggested that Roger and John were only 5% of Queen each: What kind of MORON are you, I would dearly like to slap you, and then see you say that to Roger or John's FACE, you stupid coward who has to post nonsense over a fucking forum. Stop spewing complete BULL, Roger, in my opinion, wrote some of the most beautiful songs, some of which I love very much. Tenement Funster for example, is one of my favourites, aswell as Breakthru and Radio Gaga. As for John, Misfire, You and I, Another One Bites The Dust, Back Chat, all great songs that I love! To say Queen would have been the same without these two, is completly and totally untrue. And you call yourself a FAN, my god, who would want a fan like YOU! There is NO denying Brian and Freddie, Freddie probably yes, a bit more so than Brian, were major components of Queen, but so were Roger and John. You, my dear, can suck it. |
Bambi 07.06.2006 21:53 |
amen. |
rocks. 07.06.2006 22:00 |
doeeyes wrote: amen.Thank you. :) |
Fiendishly Yours 07.06.2006 22:25 |
WhatMustHeThink wrote: to the total asswipe that suggested that Roger and John were only 5% of Queen each: What kind of MORON are you, I would dearly like to slap you, and then see you say that to Roger or John's FACE, you stupid coward who has to post nonsense over a fucking forum. Stop spewing complete BULL, Roger, in my opinion, wrote some of the most beautiful songs, some of which I love very much. Tenement Funster for example, is one of my favourites, aswell as Breakthru and Radio Gaga. As for John, Misfire, You and I, Another One Bites The Dust, Back Chat, all great songs that I love! To say Queen would have been the same without these two, is completly and totally untrue. And you call yourself a FAN, my god, who would want a fan like YOU! There is NO denying Brian and Freddie, Freddie probably yes, a bit more so than Brian, were major components of Queen, but so were Roger and John. You, my dear, can suck it.*claps* Thanks for saying what some of us can't quite seem to word. You speak the absolute truth. |
rocks. 07.06.2006 22:27 |
Fiendishly Yours wrote:thank you, its very nice being validated for telling the disillusioned asswipes what I think of them.WhatMustHeThink wrote: to the total asswipe that suggested that Roger and John were only 5% of Queen each: What kind of MORON are you, I would dearly like to slap you, and then see you say that to Roger or John's FACE, you stupid coward who has to post nonsense over a fucking forum. Stop spewing complete BULL, Roger, in my opinion, wrote some of the most beautiful songs, some of which I love very much. Tenement Funster for example, is one of my favourites, aswell as Breakthru and Radio Gaga. As for John, Misfire, You and I, Another One Bites The Dust, Back Chat, all great songs that I love! To say Queen would have been the same without these two, is completly and totally untrue. And you call yourself a FAN, my god, who would want a fan like YOU! There is NO denying Brian and Freddie, Freddie probably yes, a bit more so than Brian, were major components of Queen, but so were Roger and John. You, my dear, can suck it.*claps* Thanks for saying what some of us can't quite seem to word. You speak the absolute truth. |
Winter Land Man 07.06.2006 22:49 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: This is by far one of the dumbest threads I've seen on this message board. There's been countless numbre of times when Brian has mentioned how corageous and brave Freddie was when it came to make the decision to keep recording despite his illness. Brian has also mentioned that Freddie could only work for a few hours everyday during the sessions for 'Innuendo' and 'Made In Heaven' and he deeply appreciates the enormous effort he made to keep working until he could not possibly give any more. Brian has also mentioned how proud he felt of Freddie for writing 'I'm Going Slightly Mad', and how dissapointed he felt at the fact that it was just a minor hit. Do you guys still think Brian is making up a bunch of bullshit stories to make himself look like the leader of the band? About Brian trying to take the lead, Brian does admit many times that there's been discussions in between band members about the musical direction they want to take, but guess what people?... that happens on every single fuckin' rock band because as individuals there will always be differences and disagreements. Brian also wanted to take a more hard rock direction during the 80s, while the rest of the band decided to take a more mainstream pop approach. Yet we never hear Brian ranting about the final outcome of their work, and he always mentions to feel very proud of all Queen has done and he has no regrets. I think you people are very ignorant, and choose to interpret comments in the most negative way.Silly Boy |
Winter Land Man 07.06.2006 22:55 |
<font color=330066><bold>old barrow-boy wrote: At first it was interesting. Then it became annoying. Now it is embarassing. Mr Jingles I am completly with you on this. I can't even begin to argue about the Tribute concert. Read MrJingles' posts once more if you don't get it. Brian, Roger, John and Freddie are Queen. Look at the banner up to the left on this page. See how they are one. A group. Queen.And read Sebastian's... it was NOT a tribute to Queen, it was a tribute to FREDDIE! |
Scott_Mercury 07.06.2006 23:34 |
Wow, when I started this original post, I thought I may get a few responses, then forgotten about.... 5 pages later, we are way off topic. My original post was not about whether or not John & Roger were key members in Queen. My original post was not about why Brian chose to play only 4 Freddie songs at the Freddie Mercury tribute concert... which is kind of odd since Freddie wrote 58% of all Queen songs, and 68% of the top 40 hits... but anyway... The original post was about how I feel that while doing it tactfully, and respectfully, lately I feel that Brian has played up his own role he played in Queen, and downplayed Freddie's. I do not think that Brian should kiss Freddie's ass.... nor do I think Brian should act like Freddie was some god of all music. Brian's guitar choir wall of sound is a very key role in the Queen sound.... as is John's bass playing (underated) and Roger's drumming (who I personally prefer over Neal Peart and Keith Moon). Brian, Roger, and John were all key members... all important, any one of the them gone, it wouldn't be the same.... and while its not up for discussion that Freddie was indeed the chief songwriter/arranger, some of all of our favorite Queen songs were written by John, Roger or Brian, and simply wouldn't have happened without them. I personally feel however, that without each of those 3 men meeting Freddie Mercury, the world would have never known the Thunder of "We Will Rock You".... The pure Rock Raspy vocal, and killer 6/8 timing of "I'm in love with my car".... and John's "Best Friend", or "Spread your Wings" would have never been known by the world, had it not been given a voice by Mr. Mercury. And Freddie didn't too bad either... I mean what singer would not want to have John Deacon, Roger Taylor, and Brian May as the band supporting their singing???? But it is my belief that had there never been a Freddie Mercury, fame absolutely would have never happened to John, Brian, or Roger. Like I have stated before, Brian is an intelligent, down to earth, world class musician... I just don't care for the down play of Freddie contribution, and especially his recollection of the 1989-1991 time frame, where as Sebastian has pointed out 300 or 400 times, these are essentially Freddie Mercury albums, with some assistance from the others... In the past, in his usual clues and riddles way of speech, Brian has hinted that perhaps Freddie was "mostly out of it" while he (Brian) wrote a lion's share of the work those last years.... which we now know the opposite was true. |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 07.06.2006 23:36 |
SomebodyToLove makes a good point when he says that all four band members in fact were not equals. He is right. I mean, Roger Taylor even admits that Freddie Mercury basically re-wrote some of his songs for him. Freddie did the same thing for John as well, in some instances. This is not to say that Roger and John were not talented as well. They just do not have the same songwriting and musical talent as Freddie. That is also probably why the other two do not seem to be so threatened by Freddie. After all, they never got the idea in their heads that they could be on the same level. Two other things about Brian also bother me. In the first place after Freddie died, he made some comment about how Freddie possessed a "touch of genius." I mean, what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Why does he have to hedge around like that? Either make a generous comment or don't say anything at all! Another thing was when Brian got really defensive after an interviewer asked whether Freddie was not often the lead musical force in Queen. The interview saw the "Magic Years" video that shows Freddie dictating to Brian and Roger how to play in a way that a producer would. Brian actually accuses Freddie of basically showing off in front of the camara! But yet some other producers who worked in the studio with Queen say that Freddie really did play that type of role a lot. It just seems sad that Brian has to get so defensive. It is though his ego is more important than the memory of Freddie. It also does not surprise me that Brian says that he is so very depressed all of the time. If he were humble like John Deacon, he would he a lot happier. |
mike hunt 08.06.2006 01:12 |
anyone who says queen were four equals of importance are full of shit. Brian even said if it wasn't for bo rhap queen would have broken up, also when queens popularity was waning in 1984, it was freddie performance at live aid that got queen going again. Freddie was the chief songwriter/arranger of the band, he took over johns and rogers songs and made them worldwide hits. I do think roger and john had a much greater impact than only 5%, that's absurd! |
deleted user 08.06.2006 03:49 |
mike hunt wrote: anyone who says queen were four equals of importance are full of shit. QUOTE] |
deleted user 08.06.2006 04:06 |
Messenger Of Leah wrote:And read this post...It was a tribute put together by Queen. And how many singers will choose to sing Millionaire Waltz or Bicycle race in a stadium concert when they can try on Hammer to Fall or Radio Ga Ga? And singing any Queensong is a tribute to Freddie, since Freddie is associated with those songs. You know the world can not tell who wrote I want to break free. But when it is played on the radio we all think of Queen and remember Freddie.<font color=330066><bold>old barrow-boy wrote: At first it was interesting. Then it became annoying. Now it is embarassing. Mr Jingles I am completly with you on this. I can't even begin to argue about the Tribute concert. Read MrJingles' posts once more if you don't get it. Brian, Roger, John and Freddie are Queen. Look at the banner up to the left on this page. See how they are one. A group. Queen.And read Sebastian's... it was NOT a tribute to Queen, it was a tribute to FREDDIE! |
deleted user 08.06.2006 04:12 |
But, really. This Tribute thing is off topic, like you said in your last post, Scott_Mercury. It should have its own silly thread ;P |
YourValentine 08.06.2006 04:53 |
I think we should not overestimate some interviews. Let's not forget that interviews are often done to promote a product. For example, the statement that Freddie said "write me anything etc" was made in connection with the release of Made In Heaven. It would have been odd if they had called it "Made In A Computer" instead and if Brian would have said "Freddie did not give a damn about the left over material but Roger and I feel like having a No.1 album again" (I am NOT saying Brian felt that way!). Brian was fending off a lot of criticism for MIH and to suggest that they were doing Freddie a favour by helping him to work and forget about his illness for some hours was the best possible strategy to silence the critics. And there was sure some truth in it, too. Such interviews are re-used for documentaries all over and fans keep dissecting some casual words decades later. It's always good to remember the context and not to forget that sometimes they were just some ad hoc comments. Strangely, that is never done to Freddie. We could fill books with dismissive and rude comments by Freddie but being dead he is not criticized by the fans for them. Instead poor Brian is held accountable for any slight slip of the tongue by the purists of the fan base. We should look at what the band actually did and judge them for that instead of some interviews. They did stay together for 20 years which proves that they appreciated the importance and musical skills of each other. On the recent tour they had tributes to Freddie all over the set acknowledging his important role in the band 15 years after his death. |
mike hunt 08.06.2006 05:14 |
I do agree that we should leave brian may alone. The man is human, he's not perfect. The bottom line is all four members contributed to 20 great queen years, and stuck together in 1990/91 to record one of the greatest queen albums ever. |
Winter Land Man 08.06.2006 05:15 |
<font color=330066><bold>old barrow-boy wrote:Millionaire Waltz and Bicycle Race? Surely Freddie wrote something better or more rockier? What you wrote wern't even his most popular songs!!Messenger Of Leah wrote:And read this post...It was a tribute put together by Queen. And how many singers will choose to sing Millionaire Waltz or Bicycle race in a stadium concert when they can try on Hammer to Fall or Radio Ga Ga? And singing any Queensong is a tribute to Freddie, since Freddie is associated with those songs. You know the world can not tell who wrote I want to break free. But when it is played on the radio we all think of Queen and remember Freddie.<font color=330066><bold>old barrow-boy wrote: At first it was interesting. Then it became annoying. Now it is embarassing. Mr Jingles I am completly with you on this. I can't even begin to argue about the Tribute concert. Read MrJingles' posts once more if you don't get it. Brian, Roger, John and Freddie are Queen. Look at the banner up to the left on this page. See how they are one. A group. Queen.And read Sebastian's... it was NOT a tribute to Queen, it was a tribute to FREDDIE! Princes Of The Universe? The Miracle? It's A Hard Life? Staying Power? Play The Game? The Hitman? Was It All Worth It? Life Is Real? Man On The Prowl? and TONS of other stuff. And since it was a tribute to Freddie, what about his solo songs??? |
mike hunt 08.06.2006 05:25 |
you don't know what your talking about!...millionare waltz is one of freddies best ever. |
deleted user 08.06.2006 05:30 |
Messenger Of Leah wrote: Millionaire Waltz and Bicycle Race? Surely Freddie wrote something better or more rockier? What you wrote wern't even his most popular songs!! Princes Of The Universe? The Miracle? It's A Hard Life? Staying Power? Play The Game? The Hitman? Was It All Worth It? Life Is Real? Man On The Prowl? and TONS of other stuff. And since it was a tribute to Freddie, what about his solo songs???So you missed Man on the Prowl? And you thought the world was screaming for Life is real? And it was strange not to take on the anthem Staying power? Let it rest... |
Winter Land Man 08.06.2006 06:06 |
mike hunt wrote: you don't know what your talking about!...millionare waltz is one of freddies best ever.Not in my opionion, it was awesome creative wise. But the guy was acting like Freddie didn't write much popular songs. |
rocks. 08.06.2006 07:00 |
YourValentine wrote: We should look at what the band actually did and judge them for that instead of some interviews. They did stay together for 20 years which proves that they appreciated the importance and musical skills of each other. On the recent tour they had tributes to Freddie all over the set acknowledging his important role in the band 15 years after his death.You made me realise something, 20 years, if Brian was feeling up-staged, and put in the backround where he shouldnt be, etc, everything suggested by people who agree with the person who started this thread, do you think ANYBODY would have put up with it for 20 fucken YEARS! My god! I rest my case :P I'll be the first to admit, no Freddie, Queen (smile and whatever singer they found next)would not have taken off with songs like Earth and April Lady. I love them, but..it just wouldnt have had wide public apeal. Freddie got Queen soaring, and he pulled them out of some tight spots, but that doesnt mean that the other three were and less significant. |
Sebastian 08.06.2006 09:13 |
Promoting MIH - Very good point. Yet the entire thing seemed a lot hypocritical to me: why announce it as an album when it was a compilation with three post-Innuendo compositions? I think they meant to over-dramatise the sessions ("write me anything", as if Fred'd been 3/4 dead in a bed whilst saying that). I love the "album" but... same old story. Brian's comments - as I said, I don't think he ever put down Freddie directly, although he left a lot of open threads and (consciously or not) led fans and press to speculate Fred stopped writing. Proof? scores of websites, hundreds of press articles and TV specials around the world where they credit Brian (and for some extent Roger) for writing virtually all of Miracle, Innuendo and the post-Innuendo tracks, except for Delilah, All God's People and one or two more. Tribute to Brian (falsely claimed 'Tribute to Freddie'): There are many songs by Fred they could have performed: Killer Queen, Don't Stop Me Now, Love Of My Life, Play The Game, It's A Hard Life, Friends Will Be Friends, The Miracle, Was It All Worth It, I'm Going Slightly Mad, Bijou, A Winter's Tale. I don't mind Brian playing Too Much Love since that song's beautiful and Brian was a friend of Freddie's. I would have loved if Roger had sung one track or too as well, but many of those artists, brilliant as they are, weren't Fred's mates: Axl, Gary, Paul Young, Slash, Joe Elliott, Iommi. |
john bodega 08.06.2006 09:42 |
While I happen to agree that there were questionable choices both in setlist and the acts themselves... it still doesn't feel like a tribute to Brian to me. George Michael had the right idea doing the audience participation thing, Roger Daltrey was *on fire* waving the mic around - while not directly "Freddie" things perhaps, they are a more than adequate tribute to him. I think, anyway. I tell you what fellas, to make this constructive, let's think more about the 20th anniversary of his death and make another Tribute Concert. Start putting ideas down. Hahah. |
deleted user 08.06.2006 09:44 |
Tribute to Brian? Please... Do you actually think Brian thought they had to play his songs so the world would know he was Queen? Please... The friends joining were all big stars at that time AND friends of the band. How do you think you had gone about it if you were putting it all together? |
Mr.Jingles 08.06.2006 10:38 |
mike hunt wrote: you don't know what your talking about!...millionare waltz is one of freddies best ever.I always thought of 'Millionaire Waltz' as a recycled version of 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. It just doesn't make it for me. I always skip it when I listen to ADATR |
Adam Baboolal 08.06.2006 10:42 |
Sebastian wrote: why announce it as an album when it was a compilation with three post-Innuendo compositions? I think they meant to over-dramatise the sessions1 - because they were under contract to put out more stuff. 2 - they did over-dramtise things. It's the whole point of the queen story isn't it - rising from humble beginnings to superstars only for their cherished lead singer to die tragically. Sebastian wrote: ...("write me anything", as if Fred'd been 3/4 dead in a bed whilst saying that).Why would anyone think that?? Seriously, when I hear that quote from the video, I never picture anything like that. It's usually in the studio where Freddie wants to keep on going. Hence the write me anything and I'll sing it, line. Sebastian wrote: he left a lot of open threads and (consciously or not) led fans and press to speculate Fred stopped writing.Again, I've never EVER in my time as a fan thought that anything said in these interviews led to the belief that Freddie had stopped writing. Maybe that Fred didn't have the strength to play piano. But nothing could have led me to believe he wasn't writing. I'm sure someone in his position would've written plenty. Sebastian wrote: Proof? scores of websites, hundreds of press articles and TV specials around the world where they credit Brian (and for some extent Roger) for writing virtually all of Miracle, Innuendo and the post-Innuendo tracks, except for Delilah, All God's People and one or two more.You'll have to point me to these websites as I don't know any that say such things. I believe this is because the albums were credited to Queen, rather than specific individuals. I think it's nice to know where a song comes from, but they themselves had decided to credit all songs to Queen at this point, so that's enough for me. Sebastian wrote: Tribute to Brian (falsely claimed 'Tribute to Freddie'): There are many songs by Fred they could have performed: Killer Queen, Don't Stop Me Now, Love Of My Life...Well, I do remember that artists ushered in got to pick tracks they wanted to do. Does anyone know the FULL details about how things were picked? If not, I'd say it's best left alone. Sebastian wrote: I would have loved if Roger had sung one track or too as well, but many of those artists, brilliant as they are, weren't Fred's mates: Axl, Gary, Paul Young, Slash, Joe Elliott, Iommi.Brian's doing, of course. Something I don't see a problem with. If you have famous mates that you can call on for a huge concert, you'd do the same. Peace, Adam. |
Mr.Jingles 08.06.2006 11:03 |
Sebastian wrote: Promoting MIH - Very good point. Yet the entire thing seemed a lot hypocritical to me: why announce it as an album when it was a compilation with three post-Innuendo compositions? I think they meant to over-dramatise the sessions ("write me anything", as if Fred'd been 3/4 dead in a bed whilst saying that). I love the "album" but... same old story.I do admit that they weren't quite specific as into what happened during the recording sessions, as most of the album was made of previously recorded voice tracks from Freddie re arranged in the studio. Nevertheless, I am thankful that they decided to put out an entire album, and not have those tracks hidden in the vaults until they decided to put out a box set. Sebastian wrote: Brian's comments - as I said, I don't think he ever put down Freddie directly, although he left a lot of open threads and (consciously or not) led fans and press to speculate Fred stopped writing. Proof? scores of websites, hundreds of press articles and TV specials around the world where they credit Brian (and for some extent Roger) for writing virtually all of Miracle, Innuendo and the post-Innuendo tracks, except for Delilah, All God's People and one or two more.I remember quite clearly all the whinning from some people in this very same message board when Brian mentioned that 'Bohemian Rhapsody' wasn't the peak of their career. I don't think any artist want to consider a single song as their peak, especially for a band like Queen. It's not as if Brian said that 'We Will Rock You' was bigger than 'Bohemian Rhapsody' or something like that. Back to the last years before Freddie's death, nobody knows for sure how much input did Freddie put? It's just pure speculation because neither one of us was at the studio witnessing the recording sessions for 'The Miracle', 'Innuendo', and 'Made In Heaven'. The only thing we know for sure is that as time went by and his illness became more serious, Freddie could only work less hours a day. Sebastian wrote: Tribute to Brian (falsely claimed 'Tribute to Freddie'): There are many songs by Fred they could have performed: Killer Queen, Don't Stop Me Now, Love Of My Life, Play The Game, It's A Hard Life, Friends Will Be Friends, The Miracle, Was It All Worth It, I'm Going Slightly Mad, Bijou, A Winter's Tale. I don't mind Brian playing Too Much Love since that song's beautiful and Brian was a friend of Freddie's. I would have loved if Roger had sung one track or too as well, but many of those artists, brilliant as they are, weren't Fred's mates: Axl, Gary, Paul Young, Slash, Joe Elliott, Iommi.Well, let's take for instance who were Freddie's friends... Boy George, Billy Squier, and that dude from Spandau Ballet. Obviously Brian had the most famous friends out of the two, and they were picked instead of Freddie's because the Tribute will get a much bigger promotion with names like Metallica, Guns N' Roses, Def Leppard, Robert Plant, and Roger Daltrey. Personally I think Brian was nice enough to let Liza Minelli sing 'We Are The Champions' considering how much he admired her. Yet, that ended up becoming one of the worst performances of the night. |
deadbird 08.06.2006 11:50 |
"Brian and Roger may make music that sound like Queen, but without Freddie's vocals, who cares?" All the people who still are making the current Queen be sucsessful..... (duh.) all the people seeling out the shows. And jamming at the rock honors show. Or any other show.If people are still intrested, do it. and... if you don't like it, freakin listen to something else. you know? dont cry over it, just go away. That was dumb, man. |
deadbird 08.06.2006 12:04 |
ok, you know what? Its just really time to defend freakin Brian. Whatever crap you want to say... Fine. This is what it comes down to. This is perspective. Who are you? Nobody. You didn't know Queen. you didn't know Freddie. you weren't there when Freddie was dying or when Innuendo was being made. you also weren't one of his very closest friends for 20 years. (20 YEARS!) youre some fan. ...oh YEAH! Brian May WAS all that!!! First thinsg first... Brian has the right to talk about this stuff and validity just because of these things... my word, please remember how little you know ever once in a while. this is a LIFE, a person, with friends, and we just get glimpses. Brian's a guy who actually knew him. And EVEN SO. You make it out that Brian is straight up LYING about... something. What on earth? Brian only descibes Freddie with what I have witnessed to be some of the truest honor and admiration... expalning his BRAVERY, his persiatance and unbelivable ability and all that he was able to do when... we was SUFFERING! hello? Freddie wasn't fine adn dandy and he wasn't STRONG! Bri obviously was around and knew of this.... and it's just riduculous to think he's gonna be all fine and capable. Go learn about AIDS, and what it does to your body, and what its like at the end. find out about the medicine. See what Freddie was living like. (before you talk about it.) ALL Brian was saying is that this EXISTED and he witnessed Freddie conquer up such miraculous incentive and sStrength to pull through for bits at a time, and do things that were clearly amazing. This is what Brian says, again, and again. Never any crap about him being the main writer or whatever crap you said. Just this. This truth-- this selflss praise pretty much. It's just so stupid for me to think.... I mean, Brian's making it seem like Freddie's totally weak and uncapable.." YEAH! dumbo! He's DYING! his body was going to SHUT DOWN COMPLETELY in a matter of MONTHS-- I'm sorry, thats how it happens! Please get some perspective. Stpo talking about stuff you don't know about. Because you don't. If you don't care for Brian, For what he says, or even the remaining Queen, fine. Good wishes to you: and yo may be better off going to find something you dont feel you have to be cynical about. |
Sebastian 08.06.2006 12:43 |
> I do admit that they weren't quite specific as into what happened during the recording sessions, as most of the album was made of previously recorded voice tracks from Freddie re arranged in the studio. Nevertheless, I am thankful that they decided to put out an entire album, and not have those tracks hidden in the vaults until they decided to put out a box set. Yes. I think some of those recycled songs are very beautiful, especially with the mid-90 arrangements and immaculate production. Brilliant. > I remember quite clearly all the whinning from some people in this very same message board when Brian mentioned that 'Bohemian Rhapsody' wasn't the peak of their career. Indeed that's one of those cases where I defended Brian and said his comment was misinterpreted. I too think Queen were much more than Bo Rhap and, as I said before, and probably he wants the same, people should be more aware of pieces like '39, Long Away or Teo Torriatte. This not only applies to Rhapsody, but also to Champions, Ga Ga, Magic, Bites The Dust, Break Free and Rockyou. Queen were much more than that. The few times I watched Wembley I liked it, but when I saw Hammersmith '75, it was another dimension. > Well, let's take for instance who were Freddie's friends... Boy George, Billy Squier, and that dude from Spandau Ballet. And Michael Jackson, and Rod Stewart, and Steve Howe, and Montserrat Caballe ... some of Fred's friends were at the tribute indeed, like Elton John, Robert Plant, David Bowie and Ian Hunter. While I don't know if Daltrey and George Michael were Fred's mates, I do know he admired them (especially George), so it was nice. But Zucchero, Slash, Axl, James, Paul Young and Seal ... and Mike Moran was only given one song, where the spotlight was obviously for George Michael (what a voice!), and I do find it unfair considering that Mike was the biggest collaborator with Freddie's music during his last five years. |
Mr.Jingles 08.06.2006 13:12 |
Well, Michael Jackson became a recluse after 'Thriller' became the biggest musical phenomenon since The Beatles. Then the fame got all the way up to his head, and by 1991 when he self proclaimed "The King Of Pop" he'd probably would have said "NO", unless Liz Taylor got down on her knees and begged him to perform. Besides, there are still those rumors circulating about MJ catching Freddie snorting coke when he was invited to his place, but once again those are just rumors. Montserrat Caballe was actually asked to perform, but was already scheduled to perform at some event to promote Barcelona '92 or Expo Sevilla. I can't remember which one of those. Rod Stewart could have been a great choice, though. |
kdj2hot 09.06.2006 01:02 |
I think Brian always kinda wanted to be viewed as a Pete Townsend type.The only thing is Freddie wasn't a figure head like Roger Daltry. Freddie was very creative in his own right and that's what made Queen such a great band and I'm sure Brian wouldn't have wanted it any differently cause he's a team player but he probably can't help feel a jealous deep. |
The Real Wizard 09.06.2006 11:11 |
Sebastian wrote: > For the simple reason that rock/pop bands have a tendency to play on stage more of their heavy songs rather than their more radio friendly material. Then why on tours there were more songs by Freddie?I'm sure there were people who tried to sing other Freddie songs at the tribute concert rehearsals. Robert Plant even said, "people are changing the keys of the songs because they can't do it Freddie". But from an emotional point of view, I don't think Brian would have been able to make it through a dozen Freddie songs. He paid tribute to Freddie, and rocked out most of the time, just so he could hold himself together. Clearly he was most emotional during the Freddie songs. Well, and TMLWKY... but understandably so. Mr.Jingles wrote: How many Frank Sinatra and Elvis tributes have we seen, and yet almost every single one of "their" songs weren't written by them.Good point! Set lists have been pretty split between Brian and Freddie, although their earlier set lists included more of Freddie's work.That's just because Roger and John were writing more in the later years. Makes perfect sense to me. Well, let's take for instance who were Freddie's friends... Boy George, Billy Squier, and that dude from Spandau Ballet. Obviously Brian had the most famous friends out of the two, and they were picked instead of Freddie's because the Tribute will get a much bigger promotion with names like Metallica, Guns N' Roses, Def Leppard, Robert Plant, and Roger Daltrey.Your premise is correct, but we need to remember that the Freddie tribute was announced with no word on who was showing up. Everything was a secret until the day of. Sebastian wrote: But Zucchero, Slash, Axl, James, Paul Young and Seal ... and Mike Moran was only given one song, where the spotlight was obviously for George Michael (what a voice!), and I do find it unfair considering that Mike was the biggest collaborator with Freddie's music during his last five years.I think Brian's last concern was the egos of Freddie's friends, and weigh on a scale "time on stage at the concert" vs "how well they knew Freddie". Brian, Roger, and John wanted to put on a concert. A tribute for Freddie. Period. I'm really getting sick and tired of reading the crap that I'm seeing in this topic. All you people who are being overly critical of Brian seem to be so devoid of emotion, lacking in empathy for what Brian went through, and are just taking a few quotes so far out of context to prove that you're some kind of expert on what actually happened in 1991. Brian is by no means required to tell a full story of what happened. Freddie was his friend of 20 years. They were fully aware the any one time may be their last time writing music together. It's time for some of you to get some perspective. |
Boy Thomas Raker 09.06.2006 11:56 |
Okay, to put a fine point on this topic, Scott Mercury's premise is absurd, and while he raises a good point about Brian's ego, he's manipulating Brian's words to make the point HE wants to make. For the record, when Freddie died, the press release said that Queen had lost "our greatest member." Using Scott's logic, Brian probably only said that because it was the right thing to say after the death of a friend. Fair enough. But Brian is on record when Freddie was alive talking about how Roger, John and Brian played well at Live Aid, but Freddie took it to another level. In the liner notes for the Freddie solo collection, Brian puts Freddie in the company of Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley as the great voices of 20th century music, and notes that Freddie was the only one of the 3 to write his one material. I've read countless things where Brian diminishes his ability on guitar, recently saying when he played the Les Paul tribute that half the kids in the audience could play better than him. In an interview in Guitar magazine, he said he was a hack guitarist compared to Nuno Bettencourt, and that Jeff Beck makes him feel useless. Then again, maybe that's code for "I'm better than these kids'll ever be, and Nuno and Jeff Beck aren't worthy of carrying my sixpence." Freddie Mercury was a once-in-a-lifetime talent, a writer of songs that will endure forever, a singer with a voice equalled by few in the world of rock or pop, and a frontman who could win over any audience. He made Queen special. But he certainly would not have done it without the unique skills of Brian, Roger and John. Look at Mr. Bad Guy. Nice songs, nothing special, and the world would not be a worse place without Freddie's solo work. Can't say that about Queen's stuff. |
AmeriQueen 09.06.2006 11:59 |
1st paragraph sends out an idiot alert. |
deleted user 09.06.2006 12:19 |
:O Brian is probarbly the most polite one out of Queen! |
Heavenly Love 09.06.2006 12:43 |
I quite agree with Sebastian and Scott Mercury. There is force in what you say, guys! What I know for sure, is that Freddie was one who moved heaven and earth to light up our hearts and he perfectly managed it! I also do not think the four members were equal. It's silly to think so! You're judging blindfold! It's obviuos that Freddie was the leader though he used to say he wasn't. But that just proves his modesty. In fact, all the members of the group are unique. Queen is unique! Why do you fly into a passion when to someone Brian seems at times unfair? Isn't it possible that he's just a man with his own merits and demerits? So goes the world, my friends... |
Sebastian 09.06.2006 14:48 |
> I'm sure there were people who tried to sing other Freddie songs at the tribute concert rehearsals. To be fair, and omitting the point that I disagree with much of the performers' choice to begin with, I doubt they were Queen experts. So perhaps, for instance, Seal could have thought WWTLF was a song by Fred or whatever. I know Elton did think Mercury had written the lyrics to Show Must Go On. >Well, and TMLWKY... but understandably so. I loved that one. And I know Freddie liked it as well so it's just fair. > Good point! Let me put it this way: if Brian had been the one who had died, and in the tribute to him Fred filled it with Boy George, Aretha Franklin, Liza Minelli and Peter Striker, and his own compositions outnumbered May's, it'd have been unfair. Same case here. > when he played the Les Paul tribute that half the kids in the audience could play better than him. And that's most likely true. > In an interview in Guitar magazine, he said he was a hack guitarist compared to Nuno Bettencourt And it's absolutely right. > and that Jeff Beck makes him feel useless. I wouldn't say useless, but Beck's much better guitar player, yes. Not a better musician though. > Look at Mr. Bad Guy. Again, it sounds poppy and non-Queen-esque because Fred wanted it that way, not because he couldn't make it otherwise. |
Boy Thomas Raker 09.06.2006 14:59 |
My point with those quotes, Sebastian, is that if Scott is correct that Brian is trying to use his words to come off as the leader of Queen or the guy who kept Queen together or something, it sure doesn't fit in with the Brian who is absolutely self-deprecating when it comes to his talents. In addition, and I'm not going to search for it, I remember Brian talking about his playing on The Mirale, and he said it was a miracle he was even a part of the album as he had so much upheaval in his life which was known (his fathers' death, his marriage unravelling) and unspoken (he obviously knew of Freddie's condition at this time.) So, playing amateur lawyer, there is no track record in Brian's past of making himself to be something that he's not. Scott is speculating on quotes to spin a story that isn't there. |
Poo, again 09.06.2006 17:10 |
Brian is evil. |
Carol! the Musical 09.06.2006 19:38 |
^ Yeah, he tried to stab Freddie in the back with a knife. Bad Brian! |
mayniac316 09.06.2006 19:51 |
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mayniac316 09.06.2006 19:52 |
<font color=336600>ChinesedogTorture wrote: ^ Yeah, he tried to stab Freddie in the back with a knife. Bad Brian!Yes, Brian you naughty boy!! ;) |
Adam Baboolal 10.06.2006 21:03 |
Sebastian wrote: when he played the Les Paul tribute that half the kids in the audience could play better than him. And that's most likely true. > In an interview in Guitar magazine, he said he was a hack guitarist compared to Nuno Bettencourt And it's absolutely right.Please explain what you mean, rather than just stating, "that's mostly true" or "it's absolutely right". We don't all know what this means because it's about stuff some of us are not familiar with. Peace, Adam. |
Freddie's #1 Fan Forever 10.06.2006 23:20 |
Some people above point out the fact that Brian is often self-deprecating. There is some truth to that. At the same time, I feel like he goes from one extreme to another. At one point, he puts himself down in a stange way. The next mintute he goes off on some ego trip. The evidence for these ego trips has been well documented not only on this thread, but on other threads as well. It is as though he is supressing his ego a little too hard during interviews in which he states that half the kids in the audience are better than he is. The next minute, he walks out of an interview or falsely implies that Freddie Mercury told him, "Just write anything, and I'll sing it." BIZARRE! |
Sebastian 11.06.2006 07:48 |
I mean that there are many guitarist who play much better than Brian (even though he's excellent), and he's aware of that. Very few can compare to him when it comes to composing or arranging melodies and planning solos, but when it comes exclusively to playing, there are many much better. IMO. |
Huge*Queen*Fan 11.06.2006 07:59 |
The thing is with some of these comments you dont actually know whether anything that is being said IS true, the press have a habbit of blowing things out of proportion. |
john bodega 11.06.2006 08:45 |
"when he played the Les Paul tribute that half the kids in the audience could play better than him." This I simply cannot agree with. Go to youtube, type in Queen, and you'll wind up with hackjob guitarists who can't play *nearly* as well, trying out his stuff! I know of what I speak, I once had a video of myself playing guitar on the internet, it was respectable, but please... I think 'half the kids in the audience' is a gross gross exaggeration! :P Brian needs his ears checked. |
rocks. 11.06.2006 09:43 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: Personally I think Brian was nice enough to let Liza Minelli sing 'We Are The Champions' considering how much he admired her. Yet, that ended up becoming one of the worst performances of the night.Oh i know, she totally BUTCHERED it! |
mayniac316 11.06.2006 10:07 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "when he played the Les Paul tribute that half the kids in the audience could play better than him." This I simply cannot agree with. Go to youtube, type in Queen, and you'll wind up with hackjob guitarists who can't play *nearly* as well, trying out his stuff! I know of what I speak, I once had a video of myself playing guitar on the internet, it was respectable, but please... I think 'half the kids in the audience' is a gross gross exaggeration! :P Brian needs his ears checked.Brian's problem is that he has better manners than the majority of people in the music industry, imo. Of course he's not going to say he's any good because he doesn't want to sound like he's a self-obsessed person, so he goes around putting himself down all the time. Deep down inside I'm sure he knows that he's a damn fine guitarist, why else would he still be playing after all these years? If he really thought he sucked, he wouldn't have chose the path that he did. Brian knows he's good, so it's not that he really "needs his ears checked," but he's got to stop beating himself up all the time. He's probably got low self-esteem, too, another reason why he'd say anyone is better than him. |
mayniac316 11.06.2006 10:09 |
WhatMustHeThink wrote:I kinda grimaced... and from what I remembered she really drug all the "s" sounds out, which made her sound like a snake! I think at the end of the night they probably went, "Hmmm, maybe she wasn't the best choice for that song."Mr.Jingles wrote: Personally I think Brian was nice enough to let Liza Minelli sing 'We Are The Champions' considering how much he admired her. Yet, that ended up becoming one of the worst performances of the night.Oh i know, she totally BUTCHERED it! |
rocks. 11.06.2006 10:31 |
<font color=9900CC>mayniac316 wrote:And when she was like "stay safe freddie" I was like wtf,he died, it's not like he's going on a plane!WhatMustHeThink wrote:I kinda grimaced... and from what I remembered she really drug all the "s" sounds out, which made her sound like a snake! I think at the end of the night they probably went, "Hmmm, maybe she wasn't the best choice for that song."Mr.Jingles wrote: Personally I think Brian was nice enough to let Liza Minelli sing 'We Are The Champions' considering how much he admired her. Yet, that ended up becoming one of the worst performances of the night.Oh i know, she totally BUTCHERED it! |