| deleted user 24.04.2006 06:52 |
When I still was a little Dennis :-P, I started collecting Queen DVD boots. I didn't know how bootlegs from other artists looked like, so I was pretty satisfied with the stuff I got. A lot DVD's contained horribly high generation tapes, putted on a disc. People didn't care wether it was in sync, VCD-sourced, Kazaa quality and most of the times without a decent menu. Ínformation was hard to find, and a good front-cover even harder. Now I've got into The Who and Pink Floyd boots, and I'm amazed how mutch effort people take to make a nice DVD. Pink Floyd even has "bootleg producers" who collect nice footage, always as low generation as possible. Make proffesional moving menu's ect. I take harvested for example. The footage might be shot from far and with one camera, they always make it look the best way they can. Most of the times you can choose what kind of audio you want, like 5.1 dolby digital. There are sites wich contains several covers and technical information about the circulating version. Another example from The Who (Houston '75). Fans took the effort in collecting 2 audience sources straight from the master, and compile a highly interesting video. It's as enjoyable to watch as a proffesional recording, with Excellent audio. It contains a great menu and they putted on a lot of bonus video's. They always put on bonus video's. These are just a view examples from artists. Why can't we Queen fans do this? Give the best experience on all of our boots? Why do we keep low generation tapes to ourselves? |
| Rompez 24.04.2006 07:17 |
I always had the same thoughts. Some time ago a group of Genesis fans bought a very rare roll of film (!) of a band's Shepperton 1973 performance (only about 5 of them were printed). They spend a LOT money for the film itself. Then they restored the video and sound and transferred it to DVD (Tranfering flim to video is very complex operation by the way). Result is really amazing. And after spending months of work and thousands of bucks they shared it on Dime for free! But at the same time some people on queenzone were preaching about Houston video been shared. Kind of shame... |
| willem-jan 8923 24.04.2006 09:08 |
I actually agree with you. Although there are quite a few excellent bootlegs, the audience shot ones are relatively poor compared to other bands. Of course it's not fair to compare the Freddie period with bands that are around today, since equipment was not at the same level as today's. But when compared to other classic bands, the lay-out / editing of bootlegs is rather poor. But then again, you didn't do anything yourself to improve that. So, it looks like you are just as lazy as other Queenfans (including myself). Maybe Queen fans are not as passionate about bootlegging as other band's fans. Most of them are actually to lazy to figure out how to get torrents working. Look at any other band's fan-page, and everybody uses torrents without a problem. |
| tilomagnet 24.04.2006 11:11 |
<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: Now I've got into The Who and Pink Floyd boots, and I'm amazed how mutch effort people take to make a nice DVD. Pink Floyd even has "bootleg producers" who collect nice footage, always as low generation as possible. Make proffesional moving menu's ect. I take harvested for example. The footage might be shot from far and with one camera, they always make it look the best way they can. Most of the times you can choose what kind of audio you want, like 5.1 dolby digital. There are sites wich contains several covers and technical information about the circulating version. Another example from The Who (Houston '75). Fans took the effort in collecting 2 audience sources straight from the master, and compile a highly interesting video. It's as enjoyable to watch as a proffesional recording, with Excellent audio. It contains a great menu and they putted on a lot of bonus video's. They always put on bonus video's. These are just a view examples from artists. Why can't we Queen fans do this? Give the best experience on all of our boots? Why do we keep low generation tapes to ourselves?That's a very true statement. I've been collecting Led Zeppelin for a while now and I'm always amazed how the LZ trading community actually cares about the quality and the integrity of the music they spread. There are virtually no mp3 sources and they have managed to track down and transfered the masters or low gens (i.e. 1st gen, 2nd gen, 3rd gen) of about 90% of the shows available. There are hardly any shows without lineage and there are A LOT of master transfers. Plus you have to consider that LZ played their first show in 1968 and most of their shows available are from the first half of the 70ies, so for obvious reasons it's been a lot more difficult to track down these sources than it would be for Queen shows. For example many of the '69 LZ shows available are from the masters while of Queen's Magic Tour there is not a single (!!) verified master transfer and hardly low gen ones. This situation is just sad and the fact that very few people in the Queen trading scene actually care about lineages prevents the fans and collectors from hearing the recorded shows in the best quality and most complete form possible. Instead of only looking for 'new' shows traders should track down low gens of the shows that are available already. I know that sounds a lot easier than it actually is, but if it can be done for other artists, why shouldn't it be possible for Queen as well? |
| john bodega 24.04.2006 12:56 |
Hah. I've long known it was a shitty situation, but you guys have made it even clearer with this thread. This is a good discussion. |
| FriedChicken 24.04.2006 13:16 |
I wouldn't do it because I really don't care that there is a better quality version of the concert that I have on audio/dvd/vhs somewhere in this planet. I really can't be arsed to see Freddie in slightly better quality. And I certainly don't care about seeing dvd's which have 4 20 second pieces of songs in a very distant shot with godaweful grainy and blurry quality |
| The Real Wizard 24.04.2006 14:02 |
FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: And I certainly don't care about seeing dvd's which have 4 20 second pieces of songs in a very distant shot with godaweful grainy and blurry qualityBut if the best possible version was made available, it wouldn't be grainy and blurry at all, right? But the problem is, people are selfish and want to keep everything for themselves, as if they have legal rights to it or something. Niek, you've got a pretty low view on bootlegs, because you're used to Queen bootlegs... most of which, on the grand scale of things, are crap. As has already been mentioned, there are so many amazing Zeppelin/Floyd/Who bootlegs out there, and they are completely the work of devoted fans. We have little of that in the Queen community. I know of so many people who have audience and soundboard recordings of Queen, and for various reasons, they want to keep them to themselves. Here's a list of what I know exists: London 3-31-74 complete soundboard, clone of master (only complete UK Queen II recording) Cleveland 1-23-77 soundboard master Syracuse 2-8-77 audience recording, complete (only complete US ADATR recording) Atlanta 2-21-77 video Liverpool 77 complete soundboard (not sure which night) Los Angeles 12-22-77 audience recording, second generation Monterrey 10-9-81 video Puebla 81 video (not sure which night) Drammen 4-10-82 audience recording Leiden 9-20-84 soundboard Auckland 4-13-85 (not sure if it's audience or soundboard) Leiden 86 soundboard (not sure which night) These things are all kept under wraps, and many can give us great insight into Queen as a live band. The only recordings of Queen doing White Christmas, Freddie drunk on stage, and concerts in Mexico are all secrets to most of us. Good topic. |
| Q-Nick 24.04.2006 14:37 |
Good question, good thread. Queen were the first band I started collecting, and video wise I was impressed with what I saw. Mind you, this was several years back and I've changed my mind. Since I've started collecting Springsteen DVD's, the difference in quality is immense. Within this community are experts; tapers who buy cheap seats to get positions to film. Many of them liase with each other, so their cameras have a clear focus. The mixes are pretty much spot on, and dubbing experts work on remastering audio and synching it all. Man I wish Queen shows would be available in such a professional way! |
| ibanez122 24.04.2006 16:09 |
<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: When I still was a little Dennis :-P, I started collecting Queen DVD boots. I didn't know how bootlegs from other artists looked like, so I was pretty satisfied with the stuff I got. A lot DVD's contained horribly high generation tapes, putted on a disc. People didn't care wether it was in sync, VCD-sourced, Kazaa quality and most of the times without a decent menu. Ínformation was hard to find, and a good front-cover even harder. Now I've got into The Who and Pink Floyd boots, and I'm amazed how mutch effort people take to make a nice DVD. Pink Floyd even has "bootleg producers" who collect nice footage, always as low generation as possible. Make proffesional moving menu's ect. I take harvested for example. The footage might be shot from far and with one camera, they always make it look the best way they can. Most of the times you can choose what kind of audio you want, like 5.1 dolby digital. There are sites wich contains several covers and technical information about the circulating version. Another example from The Who (Houston '75). Fans took the effort in collecting 2 audience sources straight from the master, and compile a highly interesting video. It's as enjoyable to watch as a proffesional recording, with Excellent audio. It contains a great menu and they putted on a lot of bonus video's. They always put on bonus video's. These are just a view examples from artists. Why can't we Queen fans do this? Give the best experience on all of our boots? Why do we keep low generation tapes to ourselves?Good point. THe Harvested stuff from PF is good stuff. THose guys put in alot of effort into what they do. I know Kiss fans who collect boots (me included) are generous when it comes to DVD boots. There are alot of audience shows that have 3 or sometimes 4 cam mixes that have been put together. But as always in the trading community there is stuff that remains to be rare trade for a rare trade. I dont know why people feel the need to hoard bootlegs - especially in the queen world. One way or another, the shits gonna get out - so keeping it for yourself(s) isnt going to do you any good. Just let the people have it. Its no good when only a few people know what a concert sounds/looks like. |
| deleted user 24.04.2006 17:08 |
Now, don't let this become a share or not topic. The point is that Queen boots are from low gen's and lousy compiled and dressed ect. And why can't we help eachother out to get nice shows on the market! So you really get an interesting DVD wich you wanna play over and over again. I also take this Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour as example, there are an AWFUL lot video boots on the market, with a lot of different sources. Why don't we compile those camera shots, and make nice shows with best audio/video? Even those short shots from like a telephone can have interesting shots in ex. quality. Perhaps we people could team up and make a Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour DVD collection. With nice menu's, compiled camera shots, nice audio. But the point is, who can do what? and who is willing to move his/her arse? and who is willing to give his private recording to deliver the best possible experience? The more angles the interesting! |
| Pim Derks 24.04.2006 17:11 |
Why bother when there are professionally recorded shows (the stuff which was shown on the screen was also recorded) and in the hands of some collectors ? |
| little foetus 24.04.2006 17:28 |
Interesting topic... I'm collecting Nirvana stuff and as the bands you talked about, there is a lot of great stuff and most of the recordings are not mp3-sourced and are the best available because there is a very well structured community. 95 % of the recordings gens are known. Hoarding is not that present in the Nirvana community because the big traders who have the best sources transfer them and put them on the international trading website of Nirvana. This could be the same for Queen on Queenzone but all which is shared here is mostly mp3 and people are happy with it. That's a problem and I don't see any solution. Many of us collectors have a bunch of recordings but some are mp3-sourced or not the best available because there's no people trading or sharing the best sources on the net. The problem also is that sometimes we have some sources which are thought to be the best ones and they are not. And where is the best copy? We don't know. I can show you some Nirvana websites and I would love the same websites exist for Queen: link and link . Every single circulating source is described here and there is a hub where only lossless stuff is shared. That's only the way how we can get the best sources. |
| deleted user 24.04.2006 18:05 |
is it really that hard to spend 10 minutes in Windows Movie Maker messing with the quality untill it looks 20% better? |
| Mr Faron Hyte 24.04.2006 19:05 |
This topic is an excellent use of the message board and a very worthwhile subject for discussion. Maybe opening a dialogue on the subject will lead to something. Either way, its infinitely more productive than the millionth "was Freddie really gay?" thread. Good show, gents. Given how frequently people on these boards complain about Queen Productions not releasing this and that, its at once inspiring and depressing to realize that we could have been turning out great product on our own but just haven't. Maybe that can change. |
| nibznik 24.04.2006 20:28 |
maybe a Jazz Collection DVD? Since there is no real good jazz show. There are certainly alot of clips and things, maybe bonus features being interviews and such? |
| wstüssyb 24.04.2006 21:57 |
So far Queen trading is the upmost different community in terms of what gets out, and what you need to even get stuff you would otherwise never have. Meeting people in other bands trading circles I was shocked at how easy and how so much is shared without after thought. |
| Oszmercury 24.04.2006 22:09 |
Im into bootleg colleting, and well, i've seen that there's a lot of careless about Queen roios, i love how zepp community has grown, the audio quality and video. Now im amazed about all the new video discoveries about Pink Floyd, the dvds has outstandin quality, really amazin. Queen community has to grow, a lot should i say |
| ibanez122 24.04.2006 22:22 |
<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: Now, don't let this become a share or not topic. The point is that Queen boots are from low gen's and lousy compiled and dressed ect. And why can't we help eachother out to get nice shows on the market! So you really get an interesting DVD wich you wanna play over and over again. I also take this Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour as example, there are an AWFUL lot video boots on the market, with a lot of different sources. Why don't we compile those camera shots, and make nice shows with best audio/video? Even those short shots from like a telephone can have interesting shots in ex. quality. Perhaps we people could team up and make a Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour DVD collection. With nice menu's, compiled camera shots, nice audio. But the point is, who can do what? and who is willing to move his/her arse? and who is willing to give his private recording to deliver the best possible experience? The more angles the interesting!Interesting points. It all comes down to who WANTS to give up their footage. I just dont see that happening. I like the idea, but people giving up vid - I just dont see that happening |
| Mr. Scully 25.04.2006 03:39 |
Interesting discussion. Just a couple of my thoughts: 1. I have a feeling the Queen community is not as friendly as communities of other bands. This is caused by the overall approach to trading. There are selfish collectors who keep their stuff for themselves and there are selfish leechers who keep asking for free stuff without giving anything in return. That's a neverending fight and the situation won't be changed sooner than in 5-10 years. 2. I don't think there's so much stuff that isn't shared. There are probably some "very rare" recordings, for example those that GH mentioned. But how much is that? 5-10% of all the Queen recordings. I think we all can live without them. The low gen. videos were in posession of long-time Queen traders who in most cases "retired" when Freddie died. The new generation of fans don't have access to these old videos, that's what I think. Look at Queen + PR tour - there's a HUGE amount of DVD's available, most are in almost excellent quality, some are even multi-angle. It's getting better. |
| isolar2 25.04.2006 04:26 |
I completely agree with you Martin. The Queen community isn't very friendly towards trading and or sharing of bootleg recordings, but that is not just because of those who are unwilling to share their "rare" recordings. I even think that the least of all problems. This is my point of view: It has more to do with the so called leechers and commercial bootleggers (mostly from Japan). Two examples from the past: Many years ago I traded/released the 1984 and 1986 recordings of Queen in Vienna from master tape, only to find out that in less then 2 months (!!!) all of these recordings were available on silver pressed bootlegs. The same thing happened with all Bowie recordings from Vienna. The funny thing was that the Bowie shows were from MP3 source, inferior quality recordings. The result: my supplier quit supplying me with other recordings, he doesn't want his recordings to be available for those who are only in it for the money. At the same time there was a person in Brussels who supplied me with some rare recordings (also from master tape and/or 1st generations - Queen as well as Bowie recordings), he told me he was thrilled by the fact that he could do Queen and Bowie fans a favour by releasing his high quality recordings... Same thing there: in a couple of months most of his recordings were on silver pressed CDs. Result: he decided not to release any other recordings from his collection. The Led Zeppelin market seems more friendly towards trading, same thing goes for Bob Dylan fans. But that may have to do with the fact that the Led Zeppeling and Bob Dylan community had there problems with commercial bootleggers long time before the Queen community had. I know that the Bob Dylan community started a different approach many years ago (as early as 1998), releasing as much as possible from the lowest available sources - there were tons of user groups dedicated to trading/sharing Bob Dylan recordings. If you can't win the war against commercial bootleggers than release as much as possible for free, so that the commercial bootleggers have a hard time selling their (already wide available) recordings. Those who are/were interested in Bob Dylan recordings already had what they wanted - or they could easily get it. Maybe in 5 years or so the same thing will happen with Queen recordings, but as long as there are commercial bootleggers and leechers there will be a lot of traders who are unwilling to share there "elusive" recordings with other traders. |
| deleted user 25.04.2006 15:39 |
Hey YV, This is a discussion about bootlegs, not a freaking request! Why do you move it to the request section? |
| PieterMC 25.04.2006 15:57 |
I just long for the day when the YV decides to share the version of No One But You with Freddie on vocals. |
| 928 26.04.2006 03:33 |
Totally agree with you Dennis. I just go for the throat when i say it. Good to see ...that you now see Just to add to your knowledge........IF a DVD is known to out there somewhere,no VCD of it will be released.It will be squashed so as to keep the quality of said DVD. This stops crap quality in years to come.....like the said files you get on here Unfortunatly,half you lot spend so much time collecting crap quality & then compressing that into an even crappier quality that you all think that its the bees knees & have lost touch with what is right. It wont happen though Den....1/2 on here cant even get rapidshare to work and HDVob,vob,mpeg2,mpeg1,wmv & rm is just a picture and wma,ra,mp3,ogg,ape,flac,shn & wav are just sound to queenzone eyes & ears.....quality is not in the equation. Ive seen on here excellent quality quoted for a 38Mb VCD lasting 20 minutes. You've all lost touch man! Flacs being fucked into mp3 days after its release. Ive seen DVD's put into windows avi days after. I have even seen the worst SVCD put together job(marumbi)ever.Not 1 thing correct in the video structure of it. In 2 years you will all be looking/listening at crap again for something that was recorded this year mainly because you havnt a clue as to what you are doing & dont wish to learn. People..... the smaller the file,the crappier the quality is..(as a general rule of thumb). The more compressed the more you lose. As for menus.....hahahahha read above I'm with the 5% who keep what they have that is in great quality.......only because we know that you will fuck it quicker than it took to make it. And we like to keep it that way When you learn to respect quality....we will give. Your choice,we already have them. |
| 928 26.04.2006 03:35 |
PieterMC wrote: I just long for the day when the YV decides to share the version of No One But You with Freddie on vocals.As long as it was encoded by someone else though hahahhaha |
| Bobby_brown 26.04.2006 19:22 |
This is a great discussion. I think that Queen should reflect about this, and about their Bootlegers fight, releasing bootlegs!!! Many bands today are selling soundboard concerts on their sites (Metallica, etc), but not Queen. Queen are an elite band, and they didn´t realise that there isn't market anymore for live CD releases like before. Nowaday, who reach number 1 with a live record? They could make so much money if they decided to sell real concerts instead of bootlegs. Take care |
| Saint Jiub 26.04.2006 22:48 |
928 wrote: Totally agree with you Dennis. I just go for the throat when i say it. Good to see ...that you now see Just to add to your knowledge........IF a DVD is known to out there somewhere,no VCD of it will be released.It will be squashed so as to keep the quality of said DVD. This stops crap quality in years to come.....like the said files you get on here Unfortunatly,half you lot spend so much time collecting crap quality & then compressing that into an even crappier quality that you all think that its the bees knees & have lost touch with what is right. It wont happen though Den....1/2 on here cant even get rapidshare to work and HDVob,vob,mpeg2,mpeg1,wmv & rm is just a picture and wma,ra,mp3,ogg,ape,flac,shn & wav are just sound to queenzone eyes & ears.....quality is not in the equation. Ive seen on here excellent quality quoted for a 38Mb VCD lasting 20 minutes. You've all lost touch man! Flacs being fucked into mp3 days after its release. Ive seen DVD's put into windows avi days after. I have even seen the worst SVCD put together job(marumbi)ever.Not 1 thing correct in the video structure of it. In 2 years you will all be looking/listening at crap again for something that was recorded this year mainly because you havnt a clue as to what you are doing & dont wish to learn. People..... the smaller the file,the crappier the quality is..(as a general rule of thumb). The more compressed the more you lose. As for menus.....hahahahha read above I'm with the 5% who keep what they have that is in great quality.......only because we know that you will fuck it quicker than it took to make it. And we like to keep it that way When you learn to respect quality....we will give. Your choice,we already have them.The sky is falling. Dry up and use a spectral analyzer if you are so worried about the trading pool. Your "respect for quality" is just an smokescreen so you can show your contempt for the regular fan. |
| Mr. Scully 27.04.2006 02:20 |
Bobby_brown wrote: This is a great discussion. I think that Queen should reflect about this, and about their Bootlegers fight, releasing bootlegs!!! Many bands today are selling soundboard concerts on their sites (Metallica, etc), but not Queen. Queen are an elite band, and they didn´t realise that there isn't market anymore for live CD releases like before. Nowaday, who reach number 1 with a live record? They could make so much money if they decided to sell real concerts instead of bootlegs. Take careI would agree but - I paid and downloaded one of the Metallica soundboard recordings and the quality is surprisingly MUCH worse than any audience recording from the Q+PR tour. |
| YourValentine 27.04.2006 02:42 |
<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: Hey YV, This is a discussion about bootlegs, not a freaking request! Why do you move it to the request section?Too stupid to know in which forum you are typing, aren't you? I thought you left the board - another empty promise I guess. 928 wrote: As long as it was encoded by someone else though hahahhahaYou are getting boring. Nobody can hurt your recordings. You can keep them in the quality you want. If someone else wants to keep them in an inferior quality, it's none of your business. As to my encodings: you don't need to download them. They are for free and I never claimed I am a professional video encoder. I am self taught and I do the best job I can. Strangely, the so called quality conscious traders think they are not so bad. I do agree with you thinking it's not a good idea to convert VOBs to wmv or mpg1 and flac or other lossless audio to wma or mp3 but again that's everybody's own choice and none of your or my business. |
| Fenderek 27.04.2006 04:48 |
Brilliant thread... And I agree- we are as guilty as the leechers... What do we do about it? An idea. Create a group of people. Let's make a group of people, devoted enough to trading and trying to obtain really rare (or interesting) bootlegs in as low quality as possible... Someone was talking about The Who fans... Let's do just that! Maybe not spending thousands of pounds, but give what we can- someone will find something nice, someone else will edit it nice, someone else will make menu and so on- different people have different talents... We don't have to live near each other- and I guess an initiative like that could work! All we would need is few people with some real skills, knowledge and dedication,. people who DO care about quality, people who don't think there's no difference between mp3 and WAVE... What we need is good collectors, good editors, dedicated fans... Well? I think we COULD do it- the question is- who would be up for it? I think taht could work, don't you? We can complain until we're blue on the face- that won't change anything. We can- on the other hand- join our forces and do something... By joining the efforts in trading we could easier find more interesting stuff (one person will make contact wih someone in point A, the other one will make contact with someone in point B- they want each others gigs, we are in the middle, we get both of them). Three or six people trading and devoting their time will have more chances than one. We could pull it off!!! I'm up for it. Anyone else? I'm dead serious- that could work...! At the end of the day that could benefit various projects... Our knowledge of the band would be greater, it could better any future Queen Live projects ;) and it would maybe result in few things (CDs, videos) that could compete with Who / Floyd / Zeppelin stuff... That's what I can think of... And I'm not talking specifically about Q+PR... I think there is A LOT we could do with the early years... As for how is it now... I guess the Zep and Who communities are of more mature people, aren't they? There are collectors and fans who are 40-50 years old, devoted for YEARS... What I can see here is many kids, who can't see a difference between mp3 and losseless... The moment they learn why is it important to keep this stuff in better quality they... move to other bands... Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I see it... |
| little foetus 27.04.2006 05:54 |
I'm okay with you, Fenderek. Let's go for it. Write me at jumeteor_concerts(at)hotmail.com so we can see what we can do about this great project. |
| john bodega 27.04.2006 07:42 |
Pim Derks wrote: Why bother when there are professionally recorded shows (the stuff which was shown on the screen was also recorded) and in the hands of some collectors ?Why bother? I'll tell you why - 'in the hands of the collectors' means you're not going to ever see or hear it unless you dig giving fellatio. Or maybe if you're a big knob who has Face it Alone and shit. Hahah. No really - I do think projects like this hurt no one except for the person paying for it. I see it in all corners of the internet - for instance, people who share the 'original' versions of Star Wars. This shit costs a packet if you do it on any scale, and of course the hard work is usually unrewarded, but merely 'covered'. I still think it should all just be released, BAM. Hahaha. |
| 928 27.04.2006 08:50 |
928 wrote: As long as it was encoded by someone else though hahahhahaYou are getting boring. Nobody can hurt your recordings. You can keep them in the quality you want. If someone else wants to keep them in an inferior quality, it's none of your business. As to my encodings: you don't need to download them. They are for free and I never claimed I am a professional video encoder. I am self taught and I do the best job I can. Strangely, the so called quality conscious traders think they are not so bad. I do agree with you thinking it's not a good idea to convert VOBs to wmv or mpg1 and flac or other lossless audio to wma or mp3 but again that's everybody's own choice and none of your or my business. __________________________________________________ You bite toooooooo easy YV. Well done for being self taught.....C- at the moment though.Keep going though. I know i have the choice to download your stuff.Been bitten twice......i choose not to (yet)thx. The unknowing Queenzone member only has lossy & inferior quality anyway so its not much to compare to is it? Agreed ,everybody has the choice in what quality to have....you miss the point again. If lossless is what it is served in,then bloody keep it lossless. THEN ..if YOU WANT, convert to mp3 FOR YOUR OWN USE....WHEN you have downloaded the LOSSLESS files.Dont re-distribute them as lossy crap for 1 eared people. Nice to see that you dissapprove of people converting to an inferior quality.....seems you are jumping the fence as well now :) |
| YourValentine 27.04.2006 09:17 |
I think it's you who misses the point. I encode tapes I buy, get from other fans or film myself. It's my hobby and I share the greatest part of my encodings with other fans in the hub. What happens to the files does not bother me unless it's sold, I do not like that at all. I really do not see why you should mind, just leave them alone if you do not like them. There should be room for you and me in this world. Richard started a sharing community here many years ago with the mp3 server hosted by Tim Davis. At the time it was the only format you could share online because server space and bandwidth were enormous. I know what I talk about because I hosted a QZ server for a while myself. Through the QZ server fans all over the world had the first chance to get complete bootlegged concerts on a regular basis for free. Later Richard brought the tracker and now it's possible to share lossless files. However, it was never the intention of QZ to restrict sharing to the best possible version in a mandatory format. It was always the intention to give Queen fans the possibility to share with other fans whatever they want in whichever format (as long as it's inofficial). When fans have slow connection or not much HD space they can share wma or mp3 or RealAudio - whatever. Of course it's better to share a better format but that is everybody's own choice. There has always been a trading community who did not swap mp3 or other lossless format and it's live and let live. Most traders I know see it just like I do. I have to say I do not understand the arrogance you display here. It's not your website, your forum and you have never shared anything lossless or not. Why in all the world would you care what other fans share here for free. It's not that anyone takes anything away from you. |
| Daz85 27.04.2006 13:01 |
I'm a Pink Floyd and Guns N' Roses fan too, and generally I can get (within reason) what concert on DVD I want from the them. The advent of torrenting and DVD authoring/burning have opened people to share more, which is fantastic. The Queen community IS behind, but it is also getting better, and mainly because of this site. I remember 5 years ago when I first came here, I'd have to trade something just to get a common b-side track hehe! But things like the hub do help. I guess things arn't shared so much here because of the wealth of potential meterial available - there is just so much live recordings and videos to know where to start. With GN'R I've noticed there's more of a commeradery(sp?!) with fans because the material is so much less, people work together to give fellow fans the best. Here I'd love to see the big collectors get a meeting of the minds to locate the best quality video recordings of the more "common" concerts, ie. Earls Court '77, Paris '79, Hammersmith '79, South America '81 and present them as DVDs to torrent. I've seen it with GN'R and PF, and the results are great. At the moment there are too many people uploading whatever quality concert they have, and it's hard to know what to have. We need some definitive, or as close as possible, fan-made DVDs so that they can be circulated to "flush" out any inferior versions out there. Would be wonderful I think. |
| PieterMC 27.04.2006 13:24 |
928 wrote: Well done for being self taught.....C- at the moment though.Keep going though. I know i have the choice to download your stuff.Been bitten twice......i choose not to (yet)thx.You are a perfect example of why I will no longer share anything through QZ. Why you are bashing YV is beyond me. She has contributed more to this site than you ever will. Bitch, moan, complain thats the norm here these days. People share a DVD, straight away people start asking for it in a different format, same with flac. People create a torrent. Thats not good enough, some need it as rapidshare and vice versa. It's a shame that people cannot be happy with what you can get from here. |
| Bobby_brown 27.04.2006 18:47 |
And lets not forget that the so-called collectors were the first ones to share in mp3, sometimes with 120kb/s or less, so they could keep the flac quality for a trade. In Queen comunity is all about trade. And even when they share, they share in a crap quality so they could trade their superior quality with other things. Bootlegers are allways looking for the better quality ones too. The reason they don´t have those is because they were never shared in Flac quality. Don´t doubt that as soon as the concerts starts to be shared in Flac, they stop converting mp3 to other formats to sell. Queenzone is a great source of concerts, so if people start sharing in Flac, in less than a year the "bad" sounding bootlegs will disappear. But i really don´t think this is going to happen. Collectors are complaining but it´s their interest that the rest of the fans have lower quality items, because in the end that means bigger strenght in trading negotiations. The reason they are all so frustrated is because they are buying the crap quality ones, and they don't wan't to waste money. I´ve been there too. They have sent the virus, and now are getting the desease too. Of course that i´m affected too, because now when i buy a bootleg i only buy it if it is before 2004, because after that it may be a Queenzone shared file in mp3. Take care |
| PhilJW 28.04.2006 05:49 |
Fantastic thread and very interesting. If I can add my thoughts I totally agree with the comments about the dedication of bootleggers for other artists compared to the majority of the Queen stuff. The Led Zeppelin community is suberb at producing top quality stuff, taking time and effort to source original 1st gen material, and release it to an almost professional standard. The EV release DVD of the '75 Earls Court shows and the Watchtower DVD '79 Knebworth shows, given the age of the material, could almost be professional releases. And if you want to see levels of dedication bordering on the obsessional, the Prince trading community is incredible. There are a large number of people who clearly know what they are doing in terms of remastering and producing professional DVDs. How they get the best material available I have no idea but the collected videos currentlty runs to 8 DVDs all pretty much in imacculate quality, even ones that have never been commercially released (and even some that have never been seen before!) and the current collection of outtakes and demos which has assembled every Prince track never released has just been remastered and enhanced and now runs to 33 CDs!! All shared on the the Prince hub as rar files in the best quality. If you want to see how dedicated these guys are look at thedatabank.org for the sheer quantity and quality. This doesnt seem to exist in the Queen community. Dont get me wrong this isnt a criticism, as I wouldnt know where to start to produce a DVD of the quality of Led Zep or Prince ones, but it does seem that we as Queen fans are missing out. |
| deleted user 28.04.2006 06:34 |
YourValentine wrote:Too stupid to answer my question, right?<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: Hey YV, This is a discussion about bootlegs, not a freaking request! Why do you move it to the request section?Too stupid to know in which forum you are typing, aren't you? I thought you left the board - another empty promise I guess. Allright I didn't look good wether it was the sharing the music - announce or the sharing the music - request section. But please tell me what has this topic to do with announces? I mean I can't see the connection. And please quote in wich message I said I would leave. I never said I would leave. But really, talking about that isn't my intention with this topic. |
| YourValentine 28.04.2006 07:25 |
Reading is not your strongest skill, either, isn't it?
Description of this forum:
The Queen Hub, Queen BitTorrents. Also general swapping / trading
<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote: It does contain for like 95% only fools. You can see that by their answers inserious discussions. The endlless remarks about Paul Rodgers, aids, sexuality's, uploading official stuff. I can't care bout this useless peace of junk, I've moved my arse to linkquoted from the personal forum. |
| PieterMC 28.04.2006 08:12 |
Personally I am tired of seeing people that I have never even heard of suddenly popping up and demanding things in a certain format. QZ provides people with an chance to get recordings that they probably would never have otherwise. Many fans really appreciate this but there are many that take it for granted. It's a shame really. |
| The Real Wizard 03.05.2006 13:01 |
928 wrote: Unfortunatly,half you lot spend so much time collecting crap quality & then compressing that into an even crappier quality that you all think that its the bees knees & have lost touch with what is right. It wont happen though Den....1/2 on here cant even get rapidshare to work and HDVob,vob,mpeg2,mpeg1,wmv & rm is just a picture and wma,ra,mp3,ogg,ape,flac,shn & wav are just sound to queenzone eyes & ears.....quality is not in the equation. In 2 years you will all be looking/listening at crap again for something that was recorded this year mainly because you havnt a clue as to what you are doing & dont wish to learn. I'm with the 5% who keep what they have that is in great quality.......only because we know that you will fuck it quicker than it took to make it. And we like to keep it that way When you learn to respect quality....we will give. Your choice,we already have them.Fantastic post, and I agree with every word of it, particularly the parts I quoted above. It's because most people in the Queen community don't know how to keep things in good quality that people who have great Queen recordings won't share them out of fear that the recording will be shared in 1/4 the quality within a week. And unfortunately, this can't be stopped immediately. All one can do is raise awareness of the issues, and hopefully people will slowly come to learn. But at the moment, this the reality of the situation: Queenzone is the primary reason why so many recordings are left unheard and unseen. People like myself who respect quality are in the minority here, and we suffer because most of the people here at the moment just don't care. We're not criticizing those who share. The intention to share is always appreciated. But if things can be shared in the best possible quality, then that's the way it should be. If people don't want to download such big files, or don't know how to, then they can't want the recordings that badly. |
| Saint Jiub 04.05.2006 00:22 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:We're not criticizing those who share. The intention to share is always appreciated. But if things can be shared in the best possible quality, then that's the way it should be. If people don't want to download such big files, or don't know how to, then they can't want the recordings that badly. ????Nah - I'm just deaf and can not hear much of a difference ... Trading is too time intensive (and political). I would rather buy a bootleg than trade for one |
| YourValentine 04.05.2006 03:09 |
"But at the moment, this the reality of the situation: Queenzone is the primary reason why so many recordings are left unheard and unseen" You must be joking. The main reason why recordings are "unheard or unseen" is that you do not trade with the people who have them. How can you blame Queenzone for that. Just look which recordings have been shared here in the last year - loads of concerts and videos in good quality. It's true that some sharers retired because of the attitude of many people demanding other formats but you cannot deny that many concerts which were quite "new" have been shared here in nice quality. For example Liverpool 73 was shared in the same quality as the copy that was sold on the convention 2004. All the concerts provided by whitemanadmin and his "secret provider" were the best possible available version. Previously rare videos like the St. Paul DVD were shared in the best available version etc etc |
| Mr. Scully 04.05.2006 03:51 |
Sir GH wrote: Queenzone is the primary reason why so many recordings are left unheard and unseen.Bullshit! The primary reason is that some collectors want to have unique stuff and they never trade their recordings! Or they place restrictions on some recordings! (And why do I have a feeling that you behave in the same way?...). I know collectors who would rather die instead of spreading their recordings - that's absolutely ridiculous! Quality issue? Another bullshit! Some people simply can't download 4 GB! If I wasn't a collector, I wouldn't bother with downloading FLAC files, I'd be happy with MP3's. Missing frequencies? Who cares, for fucks sake? Shitty audience recording in FLAC or MP3, what's the difference? Yes, if people trade, they should make absolutely clear what they trade. If people download MP3's and then burn them as audioCD's and trade them, then they're stupid and I understand the worries. But that's (hopefully) an exception. |
| YourValentine 04.05.2006 05:11 |
"People like myself who respect quality are in the minority here, and we suffer because most of the people here at the moment just don't care." You know, Bob - this is another thing I will never understand. Why do you suffer if some kids keep their stuff in mp3? Collecting bootlegs is fun and when you start to "suffer" you should question your approach. Queenzone is not the center of the world, there is collecting outside of QZ. It's just a website offering a place to share and there should be more appreciation and less complaining. It's not that your recordings are spoiled in any way because people share the same recordings in another format. I really don't understand why people cannot take what is offered and get the rest somewhere else. Btw, your Copenhagen 77 audio recording was mp3 sourced and you traded it. The standard lossless version came from Dimeadozen and was re-shared on Queenzone. In this case it was the sharers who provided the lossless format and not the quality conscious trader. |
| frank39 04.05.2006 05:15 |
Those people crying for only lossles quality....I didn´t see them sharing anything at all here. Its easy to argue, when you still keep sitting with your arse on your collection, only offering 20 sec snippets, letting people know, what they COULD have....( Drammen, 31.3.74, Leiden...etc.) For myself, I always prefer flac etc, but as long as I don´t have a better quality than mp3, I keep it, until.....until all the lossless-only-freaks share their stuff. Making a big noise here, is cheap. Do something. |
| tnjiric 04.05.2006 12:39 |
a kazina jebote koji asevi |
| The Real Wizard 04.05.2006 14:27 |
YourValentine wrote: "But at the moment, this the reality of the situation: Queenzone is the primary reason why so many recordings are left unheard and unseen" You must be joking. The main reason why recordings are "unheard or unseen" is that you do not trade with the people who have them. How can you blame Queenzone for that. Just look which recordings have been shared here in the last year - loads of concerts and videos in good quality. It's true that some sharers retired because of the attitude of many people demanding other formats but you cannot deny that many concerts which were quite "new" have been shared here in nice quality. For example Liverpool 73 was shared in the same quality as the copy that was sold on the convention 2004. All the concerts provided by whitemanadmin and his "secret provider" were the best possible available version. Previously rare videos like the St. Paul DVD were shared in the best available version etc etcYes, you're right from that point of view. But since then, have you noticed that no new recordings have been unearthed? The Queen trading world has been virtually silent since. I have many contacts who say they refuse to trade their rare Queen because, I quote one of them, "it will just be shared on Queenzone within a month". To the holders of the jewels, this is a negative thing, because as you know, rare recordings are good trade bait. There's a large group of people who want all of the best recordings to be found and shared, and I am part of that group. But in the Queen world, unfortunately, this just causes most owners of the great recordings to retreat into obscurity. This is not so for many other bands, but that's the reality of our situation. Please don't come down on me for this. I'm just reporting things as they are. I wish, just as much as anyone else, that it were different. Queenzone is not the center of the world, there is collecting outside of QZ.Right, I fully realize this. But as I've said above, QZ seems to be the primary reason why new recordings are kept under wraps these days. Have you seen anything great emerge lately? The owners of the rare recordings are thinking twice now. Tell me, other than the complete Dallas 78 (which was shared by the bootlegger, not a collector), name me one truly interesting Queen recording that has been shared online lately at a place other than Queenzone. I'm doing my best to be optimistic about Fenderek's project to search for the best recordings together as a group, but it will be quite the long journey. Have you offered to help? Btw, your Copenhagen 77 audio recording was mp3 sourced and you traded it. The standard lossless version came from Dimeadozen and was re-shared on Queenzone. In this case it was the sharers who provided the lossless format and not the quality conscious trader.Yes, I know, and I apologize for that. That was years ago, and before I knew how to detect lossy audio. |
| The Real Wizard 04.05.2006 14:36 |
Mr. Scully wrote: Bullshit! The primary reason is that some collectors want to have unique stuff and they never trade their recordings!Right, and it's because so many recordings are shared here that they don't want their recordings to be shared. So then we agree. Or they place restrictions on some recordings! (And why do I have a feeling that you behave in the same way?...). I know collectors who would rather die instead of spreading their recordings - that's absolutely ridiculous!I agree. But, occasionally I must have a restriction. If I wouldn't do that, then my chances of getting rare recordings would be virtually zero. If I was offered the Liverpool 77 soundboard tomorrow, and I had previously chosen to share my only rarities here, what would I offer this person in exchange? Yes, if people trade, they should make absolutely clear what they trade.And that's the problem. It's because people haven't taken care of their recordings that we have this problem. Just recently a "flac" version of Sapporo 79 was shared, but it was encoded from mp3. By eliminating mp3 files, that would be one way of cleaning up the tradepool. Of course this isn't practical, so that's why people should simply label their recordings properly. But at the moment, most don't do that. Another part of the problem is that everyone gives their bootlegs their own name. That confuses the issue even more. Every recording should have a date, venue, source, lineage, and title (only if it's a silver release), at least. |
| Mr. Scully 04.05.2006 14:58 |
Sir GH wrote: But, occasionally I must have a restriction. If I wouldn't do that, then my chances of getting rare recordings would be virtually zero. If I was offered the Liverpool 77 soundboard tomorrow, and I had previously chosen to share my only rarities here, what would I offer this person in exchange?I understand your point but that's the main problem; it's a neverending story. I have grown up a lot in the past years and my attitude has changed. Nowadays I almost go mad when I see restrictions being placed on various recordings. For example I got another Barcelona 1979 recently (the other night than the common bootleg). I would definitely mark this as a "very rare recording", I don't think any of the "main" Queen collectors have it! But it's free for any trade. I recorded 8 Q+PR last year gigs, all of them were available for a trade with anybody for anything (and I did trade all of them, mostly for other Q+PR recordings). It's simply a neverending story. Maybe 20-30% of the Q+PR recordings bear a "do not trade" restriction. That's just stupid. Yes, it's not a fucking communism, people must be rewarded for recording gigs or for finding a rare recording. But it can't go into extremes. If a collector records a gig and trades it 5 times, it should be enough for him. If he keeps it for 10 years without a single trade, then he's mentally ill. |
| The Real Wizard 04.05.2006 15:01 |
Mr. Scully wrote:Yeah, I hear ya... totally. I was in contact with the Syracuse 77 bootlegger, and she still refuses to share the recording after all these years. To her, it's the "special memory of the show", and she feels sharing the recording will somehow diminish that memory. It's such a shame that the only complete US ADATR recording goes to waste.Sir GH wrote: But, occasionally I must have a restriction. If I wouldn't do that, then my chances of getting rare recordings would be virtually zero. If I was offered the Liverpool 77 soundboard tomorrow, and I had previously chosen to share my only rarities here, what would I offer this person in exchange?I understand your point but that's the main problem; it's a neverending story. I have grown up a lot in the past years and my attitude has changed. Nowadays I almost go mad when I see restrictions being placed on various recordings. For example I got another Barcelona 1979 recently (the other night than the common bootleg). I would definitely mark this as a "very rare recording", I don't think any of the "main" Queen collectors have it! But it's free for any trade. I recorded 8 Q+PR last year gigs, all of them were available for a trade with anybody for anything (and I did trade all of them, mostly for other Q+PR recordings). It's simply a neverending story. Maybe 20-30% of the Q+PR recordings bear a "do not trade" restriction. That's just stupid. Yes, it's not a fucking communism, people must be rewarded for recording gigs or for finding a rare recording. But it can't go into extremes. If a collector records a gig and trades it 5 times, it should be enough for him. If he keeps it for 10 years without a single trade, then he's mentally ill. Glad we've come to an agreement on this. Do you want to trade your Barcelona 2-19-79 recording, by the way? :) I definitely could use this for my LK analysis. |
| Rick 04.05.2006 15:01 |
And what about those stupid gifts of Smitty? (Sorry, it's not personal) It's a pain in the neck for bootleggers and collectors. It's confusing, really. Making compilations of bootlegs is NOT a good idea. It gives you a wrong image of certain shows. Sooner or later people think that Another One Bites The Dust was played in Earls Court 1977. Offcourse, this is an extreme example of it, but I'm sure you know what I mean. |
| deleted user 04.05.2006 15:17 |
I agree with both Bob and Rick in this. Many people don't "take care" of Queen bootlegs the right way. They are sharing fake concerts without even looking it up. I have no problems with the share of mp3 as long as they keep them for personal use only, but I think it's so annoying when they are polluting the trading market and in the hub (1/3 flac recordings in the hub are lossy). I've stopped sharing lossy concerts on QZ just because they aren't being used for personal use. Another thing, it's not so strange that I (I speak for myself) are very protective of my "rare" bootlegs (except when it comes to friends). Most of my "rare" recordings tends to be shared within a month after I got them, I can name examples: Houston 1977 (audio) Houston 1977 (video) Stockholm 2005 (audio) Liverpool 1973 (audio) Uniondale 1977 (video) Buffalo 1978 (video) Golder's Green 1973 (complete audio, well I shared the lossy recording, but the lossless showed up in the hub a week after) I can name some more, but I'm not arsed. |
| YourValentine 04.05.2006 15:28 |
Houston 1977 (audio) Houston 1977 (video) Stockholm 2005 (audio) Liverpool 1973 (audio) Uniondale 1977 (video) Buffalo 1978 (video) Golder's Green 1973 (complete audio, well I shared the lossy recording, but the lossless showed up in the hub a week after) These were not really "your" recordings - many other collectors had them. But it's true that some people in the past broke their promises and shared certain recordings on QZ only to annoy other collectors. That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason. |
| The Real Wizard 04.05.2006 15:49 |
YourValentine wrote: That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason.Are you implying that you don't have trouble finding recordings? If so, then what do you have that you could let us know about? |
| Rick 04.05.2006 15:56 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:I edited my message, because I was too harsh.YourValentine wrote: That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason.Are you implying that you don't have trouble finding recordings? If so, then what do you have that you could let us know about? |
| YourValentine 04.05.2006 16:01 |
I beg your pardon, Rick? Isn't that what Bob said in his previous post: "But as I've said above, QZ seems to be the primary reason why new recordings are kept under wraps these days. Have you seen anything great emerge lately? The owners of the rare recordings are thinking twice now. Tell me, other than the complete Dallas 78 (which was shared by the bootlegger, not a collector), name me one truly interesting Queen recording that has been shared online lately at a place other than Queenzone" What is sick about my post, please? |
| Rick 05.05.2006 04:35 |
YourValentine wrote: I beg your pardon, Rick? Isn't that what Bob said in his previous post: "But as I've said above, QZ seems to be the primary reason why new recordings are kept under wraps these days. Have you seen anything great emerge lately? The owners of the rare recordings are thinking twice now. Tell me, other than the complete Dallas 78 (which was shared by the bootlegger, not a collector), name me one truly interesting Queen recording that has been shared online lately at a place other than Queenzone" What is sick about my post, please?Sorry YV, it's not personal. I edited my message. But you said it in a way of: "You can't get any rare recordings anymore, but I can." Sorry, no hard feelings or whatsoever :-). |
| YourValentine 05.05.2006 06:13 |
That's okay Rick but I did not say that at all. Bob said I am "implying" something like that but I wasn't implying anything. Usually, I say what I mean :) |
| Jjeroen 05.05.2006 06:42 |
Main reason some people to not share or widely trade their own recordings is simply because that is the ONLY way to gain access to some other recordings of the same kind which would otherwise remain unseen forever! |
| Jjeroen 05.05.2006 06:52 |
But back to the initial issue, in just some random thoughts that spring to mind after reading some posts: As a matter of fact there IS a lot of love and effort being put in a lot of Queen-bootleg product. Some people, they even resident in here, take a lot of effort in 'correcting' and cleaning up those old 8mm. Others in here do some realy nice artwork! Others dedicate their every spare second to conserving the best possible quality of recordings. Hey, they even distribute them when they get to it! Some in here put a lot of money and swet into making recordings. (And who does one think he is coming in here and complaining about the quality of those recordings?!) Some in here even take the effort to create SEVERAL multi-angle DVD's of SEVERAL shows! 2-cam, 3-cam, 6-cam... some use whatever is available and watchable. And yes, indeed also telephone recordings can bring lots of justice to the 'final' product of shows. See, it IS indeed all out there... Why it is not as widely available as their Zepp/Floyd/Who-equavilents?? Hmm... I dunno, maybe indeed because the Queen community has more twats then the other bands. (Maybe also this goes hand in hand with the fact that Queen is a band with a lot of much younger fans as well??) Zeppeling must have people downloading stuff for free and putting it on eBay?! Zeppelin must have a Trancer?! No? Btw: as many people already stated, the Queen community is one of the most hostile and jealous fan-bases around. This is true! But that is not only so when it comes to trading. It is exactly the same with collectors of, let's say, vinyl and or memorabilia. And even among just 'regular' fans. For some reason Queen is indeed a band that attracts a lot of weirdo's ;-))) That was already the case 15 years ago! You had a record one had not? You got slain! You had met the band? Same thing! Only in those days, the backstabbing happened at conventions and such - nowadays it is done on the internet. Also, in here, a lot of people are just very impatient. About recordings; They want it ALL and they want it NOW. That just will not happen as the river will run dry eventually leaving some fish somewhere lying around in small pools that will NEVER get out and die in there. Most will indeed come out eventually. It just might take ten years! And let's not forget that the whining, the begging, the DEMANDING and the rediciolous amount of namecalling in here is an extra motivation for people to keep stuff to themselves. Traders more and more share their own stuff with people they like. People they choose. And they don't even need to get the 'same amount back' for it. They are actually no longer traders, but sharers as in the olden days before 'sharing' meant putting something on a server for every anonymous, ungratefull person in the world to grab it without even saying thank you. It's in some cases also a matter of granting people the pleasure of owning a recording - just because there are just too many people on a public board like Queenzone that just are not worthy. Is that selfish? Is that behaving like a selfisch jerk? Yeah, I guess so... There is just no gain in it for the trader. I'm sorry; but I just personally don't believe in blindly just GIVE everything to EVERYBODY. ESPECIALLY not to people that call me names in public! And if anyone has a problem with restrictions being put on such a 'gift', for WHATEVER reason,... don't accept the gift and tell the guy he's an arse. But I NEVER heard of anyone saying 'no' to getting a certain recording because there is a not-for-trade restriction on it. OF COURSE we want that recording. Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists. It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes. But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess. I |
| Rick 05.05.2006 09:44 |
Great post, Jeroen. @Thijs: The good old days, ey? Yes, I forgive you, offcourse I do. There is much more then Queen alone. It's just a hobby, isn't it? I remember that thing with Luis yes. He screwed us both, if I remember well. Yes it was Bradford '74 and I believe Milwaukee '76. It still was fairly rare at that point. The problem with Luis was, that he was changing mind all the time. It was both frustrating and confusing. I'm also back in trading and I rest my lazy past. I had some private problems and now I'm back in action. Edit: I forget to mention. I really think QueenZone needs a discussion like this! This place is sometimes full of sh*t. We must not let that happen! |
| Jjeroen 05.05.2006 10:04 |
I forgot to mention about Pieters new website and Fendereks idea. Both are great initiatives. Realy! But I do not think they go hand in hand. Yes, Pieters new website, also because the people that go over there got some similar view on things, is a very good and healthy thing which will indeed gain a lot of pleasure for a lot of traders. That is for sure! This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label. (Please, everyone, visit link for just a couple of seconds!) =btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.= It will also be the ideal place for healthy discussions like this one without being interfered ;-) But it will turn out an illusion that this will make more recordings being uncovered that are not already around in collectors-circles... Unfortunately. |
| tilomagnet 05.05.2006 10:06 |
jeroen wrote: Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists. It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes. But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess. I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format though... I am amazed about that as well.In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered. |
| Jjeroen 05.05.2006 10:18 |
tilomagnet wrote:Good point!jeroen wrote: Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists. It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes. But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess. I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format though... I am amazed about that as well.In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered. Good on Zeppelin too, btw! I guess you are right. In Queen circles there are indeed more people hunting for NEW material more then they are hunting for upgrades. (I myself am no exception btw! ;-) And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation. Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. I'd love to do it, but I'm afraid I have not enough time for such a project by far... Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show. Or first start an inventory on everyone that has recorded themselves or knows has a copy from mastertapes. It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. Then others go to work on artwork (whoever has time and inspiration and if there are multiple designs available in the end, let's just vote!) We could call the label White Queen Records! ;-))) Right, I'm drifting away here. You catch my drift ;-) |
| tilomagnet 05.05.2006 10:59 |
jeroen wrote: And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation. Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show. It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. ;-)What you said is really the only way to improve the situation. We have to compare the already available sources/versions of a show, track down the lineage of each version if anyhow possible and then start to look for a lower gen. Once a 'definitive' version (i.e. a master or low gen transfer) has been circulated all traders must be encouraged to stop trading their inferior versions for obvious reasons. The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with. |
| The Real Wizard 05.05.2006 21:00 |
YourValentine wrote: That's okay Rick but I did not say that at all. Bob said I am "implying" something like that but I wasn't implying anything. Usually, I say what I mean :)I didn't say... I asked... :) tilomagnet wrote: The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with.That's a very true statement, and a truly unfortunate one. So, with that in mind, here's my effort at starting a list of recordings that can be guaranteed to be from a specific tape generation. There may be a few more than you thought existed! I hope this goes well: link Another point about Zeppelin: Not only are there shows that are hoarded, but collectors are teased about what exists. Then one day a bootleg comes out, and the sound quality has been purposely tampered with, or the bootlegger makes cuts on purpose, just so the complete unaltered concert still remains in the hands of just a few. It's been like that for ages in the LZ world, and I'm sure this stuff exists within the collecting worlds of dozens of other bands. Great discussion, and great posts, guys. |
| PieterMC 05.05.2006 23:59 |
jeroen wrote: This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label. btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.Excellent idea!! I guess its just a question of how to get started. I am going to be reauthoring DVDs and adding menus or improving menus. |
| Mr. Scully 06.05.2006 04:06 |
About the quality issue - does anybody remember Luis from Spain? He (fortunately) left the Queen world some years ago. He was one of the first people who had the "rare demos" - and he intentionally distorted Silver Salmon before he traded it - and this loud distorted version spread very quickly while the original (audience) version remained very rare for quite a long time. That's just unbelievable and disgusting! Intentionally making the quality worse... and it's not about losing some inaudible frequencies like in MP3. It was about making the quality 50% worse! |
| 928 06.05.2006 05:22 |
Excellent guys Good you mention LZ & PF to see how they do not allow mp3 or other lossy. As a matter of fact Queen is the only Mp3,lossy,i dont care group around. All others Floyd Zep The Who Van Halen Frank Zappa U2 Neil Young REM Pearl Jam to name a few,just dont allow it. All this can be changed in 1 instance. MAKE RULES & start afresh Two rules are needed 1 NO LOSSY formats on the site(whatever site) 2 Follow the rules YV mentioned to me that "in the old days" mp3 was the only way as there were no lossless formats. Well....that WAS THE OLD DAYS.Tekky has changed. Those "old day" releasers should re-release in lossless.I take it that they still have the tapes. Now you all should be looking for upgrades so you can throw the mp3's in the bin. File too big?Ask for a blank & postage from someone!UPgrade your ADSL or something. It can be done. All it takes is for the staff of this site to say "right ,from now on no lossy" Job Done...easy as that YV even said that she didnt like people converting to a lossy format. You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI. I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right! The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz. Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless. They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings? |
| Serry... 06.05.2006 07:55 |
Few words from former Queen collector - about one year ago in Russia was released (if "released" is correct word when we're talking about bootlegs) a fan-made box-set which contained EVERYTHING about WWRY-Russia. It had 3 CDs (audience recordings of few shows) and 10 DVDs with all available to the date videos - from TV, professional footages, made by fans - from the shows itself and from the band meeting in airport and other things like these. From the first day when Brian and Roger came to Moscow for starting rehearsals 'till the last days of this show in Russia. All DVDs had animated menu, boxes. Price was higher than Live Aid box set. And during few months after release this box-set was updated (a couple of DVDs were added as I remember). Therefore - less of words and complaints in 928-style, more of action, ladies and gentlemen! |
| YourValentine 06.05.2006 07:57 |
"YV even said that she didnt like people converting to a lossy format. You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI. I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right! The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz. Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless. They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings?" That's not quite what I said:) I do not judge people for collecting mp3, its just myself who does not collect mp3 anymore (although I still have some demos in mp3, only) I can ask Richard to create a forum for lossless sharing and trading to have a physical barrier between the flac community and the mp3 community (or DVD and VCD respectively). But you must be aware of the fact that once a concert is "out there", there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking. I think the Rainbow 74 concert was already offered under at least 7 different fake names and that was before QZ offered flac. If you share a lossless concert on Queenzone (or DAD, Yeshkul, Trader's Den or where else), there is just nothing you can do about people sharing it on Kazaa, edonkey or anywhere else in mp3 or other formats. Therefore I think QZ should give the mp3 community a place, too. In the hub this co-existence works very well, we have a flac community and an mp3 community. Mp3 is not "upfaked" to flac because there is no trading and everything is free. As to Queen respecting us for fans - well, they SOLD (not shared) their downloadable tour tracks in wma which is lossy. Plus they attached DRM which took away from the quality, too. They sell us CDs with DRM which do not fulfill the specifications of an audio CD anymore and are not called "compact disc digiatl audio" anymore(ROTC)! @ Bob: I am not avoiding the question: Nobody has told me that I cannot have a recording because of QZ as yet, but I have always been involved with QZ and I do not look for new contacts all the time. As Jeroen pointed out correctly, many of us have settled for sharing and swapping with friends because in the long run it gets very tedious to negotiate for weeks for a concert and to get arrogant replies and I am finished with that. |
| The Real Wizard 07.05.2006 01:16 |
jeroen wrote: This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label. (Please, everyone, visit link for just a couple of seconds!)Yeah, that's pretty impressive. With the right amount of effort, the Queen community could produce something like this within a few years. |
| frank39 07.05.2006 15:37 |
Barabara said some importants words: "there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking", and its just that simple: When you trade your jewel, you always run the risk of misuse. On the other side: It´s everybody choice what he collects, and even if it´s a twice mp3-flac-wav re-encoded version. If he loves it, let him his pleasure. There´s no need for any restrictive rules, if you don´t like it, don´t take it! That simple! And above all: this finally leeds into a kind of "elite-trader" discussion, like we had it it some 4 or 5 years ago here in this forum already, I remember it very well. Mr Scully was heavily attacked by a lady, don´t remember her name. I personally kept it this way: started with some mp3, thousand years ago, and I was happy with it!! Martin was one of the first, who provided it at all! Single tracks from Live highlights in mp3, there was no DSL, flac, lossless transaction via net, only mp3) Meanwhile most of the files are replaced by lossless versions, and those mp3 left, I love them and I keep on searching... But this Queen community suffers from the fact that the Queen fundus is limited, while most poeple always only want more, new, never heard... Meanwhile, this has finally almost come to an end, nothing REALLY NEW no more, therefore more focus on the quality. OK. And I am sure, besides all Pink Floyd Harvested, Led Zepellin whatever, you´ll find crap quality versions from all those bands too, you must only search a little deeper. And I was astonished, I didn´t see the Name David Bowie at all here in this discussion, he is truely alive, and this community also has some nice quality boots: If you like Bowie,here is a short example, and what a surprise it´s UNDER PRESSURE from MSG, New York 2003 (AVI, 4.17 min) link I really wonder, what kind of Cam this guy used: its filmed from the upper right side in an amazing quality, mostly showing Bowie and Gail (almost looks like a TV Cam), and seeing this, I must think of Paul Rodgers, what a pitty.... But thats another discussion. If someone is interetsed, I have the complete Bowie concert, and some more. |
| deleted user 12.05.2006 09:12 |
the_hero wrote:This was not about you at all, no offence. It was just an example how fast your rare recordings can be shared and that it's not so strange that traders keep the recordings for themselves nowadays.YourValentine wrote: Houston 1977 (audio) Houston 1977 (video) Stockholm 2005 (audio) Liverpool 1973 (audio) Uniondale 1977 (video) Buffalo 1978 (video) Golder's Green 1973 (complete audio, well I shared the lossy recording, but the lossless showed up in the hub a week after) These were not really "your" recordings - many other collectors had them. But it's true that some people in the past broke their promises and shared certain recordings on QZ only to annoy other collectors. That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason.First of all, yes I feel that this post was about me. Second, I am sorry I shared most of the stuff I have a year after. I used to be a normal Queen bootleg collector but I got tired of all the rules attached to the trading point. I agree that it's not hard to get something you see as rare (those days Houston) as long as you have patience and the will to get it. Traders need your trust before they go into action and share their material with you, which sounds more than reasonable. When I look at Don Gerlamo for example. I've provided all my concerts to him that were still in mp3 (before I started trading). It were 113 concerts and the differences in quality were enormous. Because of a misunderstanding those days with Rick and Luis (I was the middle person between the trade, Rick gave me Bradford 74 and another concert (can't remember) and the day we were about to make the trade Luis thought I meant the houston audio instead of the video.) After I gave Don gerolamo the 2 concerts we were amazed to see the difference in quality and decided to go trading. In 4 weeks time we got about 20 concerts in good quality so that goes to show how easy it is to get material if you have a start. This was my story and the only truth from over the last year I wanted to get off my chest.. sorry for the frustrations from my side that caused frustrations from other sides over the last year. |
| disco_mart 13.05.2006 19:16 |
Hi there, as an aside to this debate, some of the aformentioned quality records that exist, especially the video ones, come from TV Broadcasters. I didn't read every reply as this has become a boring thread but the Auckland concert was recorded by Television NZ and has been aired on TV a few times. I assume that getting a second or third generation copy of this concert would be quite easy as TVNZ keeps everything they film and most of this you con obtain from them as a low generation copy by contacting them (there is a small fee). So if any of you are desperatly keen for a low generation, PROFESSIONALLY recorded copy contact them, my guess is that this would be the best stuff available that's not been officially released. |
| MiMi 13.05.2006 22:07 |
YourValentine wrote: As to Queen respecting us for fans - well, they SOLD (not shared) their downloadable tour tracks in wma which is lossy. Plus they attached DRM which took away from the quality, too. They sell us CDs with DRM which do not fulfill the specifications of an audio CD anymore and are not called "compact disc digital audio" anymore(ROTC)!What?! You mean ROTC isn't up to CD specifications? Why? What does "DRM" stand for? |
| another one diets the bust 15.05.2006 16:13 |
MiMi wrote: What does "DRM" stand for?DRM stands for Digital Rights Management |