| deleted user 17.04.2006 12:18 |
link Anyone still supporting the US's treatment of prisoners and violation of every legal treaty regarding POWs and wartime prisoners after reading this should kill him/herself. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 17.04.2006 12:59 |
The current administration is in the throes of paranoia and self-righteousness. They declare themselves bound by law then proceed to act above the law. This is a pattern with which they seem particularly pleased. It's an embarrassment, and sadly the next election is too far away for the American people to save face. |
| Serry... 17.04.2006 13:06 |
Good old Caspar... |
| SomebodyWhoLoves 17.04.2006 13:42 |
US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot! |
| Forever88 17.04.2006 15:54 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot!America is horrible. It is NOT the greatest nation on earth, it may be one day. but thats cos it will have americanized the world. |
| Poo, again 17.04.2006 15:59 |
Let's burn a flag, or something! |
| PieterMC 17.04.2006 16:08 |
Forever88<h6>Penis? Most Certainly!</h6> wrote:Both of the above statements are bullshit.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot!America is horrible. It is NOT the greatest nation on earth, it may be one day. but thats cos it will have americanized the world. |
| Mr.Jingles 17.04.2006 18:53 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot!The voice of ignorance has just spoken. Do you know for sure if every single person detained at Guantanamo is actually a terrorist? |
| user name 17.04.2006 21:16 |
PieterMC wrote:Agreed. Will the two of you immediately distance yourselves from anything relevant to politics and leave the intelligent conversation to the grown-ups.Forever88<h6>Penis? Most Certainly!</h6> wrote:Both of the above statements are bullshit.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot!America is horrible. It is NOT the greatest nation on earth, it may be one day. but thats cos it will have americanized the world. |
| That guy who digs energy domes 17.04.2006 21:45 |
under the PATRIOT Act, its our right |
| Mr.Jingles 17.04.2006 21:48 |
Queen Of Wrestling<h6>Jamie's Louvre wrote: under the PATRIOT Act, its our rightWhat's so patriotic about the patriot act? |
| Sherwood Forest 17.04.2006 21:53 |
i like how everywhere a person fucking goes there is always anti-american politic shit. Even on a fucking internet forum it doesnt stop! I say ya stop posting this crap and have you ignorant opinions about America government but take each person from America for who they are not theyre rich "leaders." sigh fucking hippies |
| Mr.Jingles 17.04.2006 22:18 |
I love George W. Bush Thanks to him liberal college teachers spend more time bashing this administration and less time giving homework. YAAAAAYY!! |
| user name 18.04.2006 06:25 |
64.396 wrote: i like how everywhere a person fucking goes there is always anti-american politic shit. Even on a fucking internet forum it doesnt stop! I say ya stop posting this crap and have you ignorant opinions about America government but take each person from America for who they are not theyre rich "leaders." sigh fucking hippiesActually, this thread has actually strayed from criticism of American citizens...this is strictly criticism of current governmental policy, and to be honest, it brings up a very valid, insightful, and factual point. So far, all the "ignorant opinions" have been effectively ignored, disregarded, or (in this case) confuted in this thread. That's something we don't see too often. |
| Lisser 18.04.2006 09:31 |
Musicman wrote:I agree with Pieter and Musicman. I don't take too kindly to calling all Americans stupid either. What does this accomplish? When some people start to realize that you can not put all Americans, all African Americans, all Germans, all French, all Arabs, etc. under one umbrella and call them all stupid, or violent, or terrorists, the world will be a better place.PieterMC wrote:Agreed. Will the two of you immediately distance yourselves from anything relevant to politics and leave the intelligent conversation to the grown-ups.Forever88<h6>Penis? Most Certainly!</h6> wrote:Both of the above statements are bullshit.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: US is the greatest nation on earth. Who cares about terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Let them rot!America is horrible. It is NOT the greatest nation on earth, it may be one day. but thats cos it will have americanized the world. |
| Poo, again 18.04.2006 09:44 |
I still say we should burn a flag! ;) |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 10:11 |
The Millionaire Waltz wrote: I still say we should burn a flag! ;)Agreed, seeing as it is a POLITICAL statement, and not directed at Americans as an ethnic group. Interesting how anyone defending the Bush-regime resorts to accusations of 'anti-Americanism' when it's just a political issue. |
| Lisser 18.04.2006 10:15 |
Why would you want to burn anything other than firewood to keep warm? Seems like a waste of time to me. It might also pollute the air? No? Find something more fullfilling to do with your time. |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 10:16 |
Lisser wrote: Why would you want to burn anything other than firewood to keep warm? Seems like a waste of time to me. It might also pollute the air? No? Find something more fullfilling to do with your time.I suppose the term 'statement' means nothing to you? And I suppose that instead of a protest-march against the war, we should go for a walk in the woods. Far more fun, right? Same kind of logic. |
| Poo, again 18.04.2006 10:26 |
Wait, Thomas... is there actually an "American ethnic group"? I'm confused... |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 10:37 |
The Millionaire Waltz wrote: Wait, Thomas... is there actually an "American ethnic group"? I'm confused...Ethno-social, yes. Anyone inhabiting the North American continent is ethno-socially speaking an American. |
| Mr.Jingles 18.04.2006 10:43 |
The Millionaire Waltz wrote: I still say we should burn a flag! ;)I'll burn a confederate flag. :-) FUCK YOU LYNARD SKYNYRD! |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 10:46 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:You know a guy with a confederate flag painted on his hood tried to run me over a little while ago? While I was walking on the SIDEWALK?!The Millionaire Waltz wrote: I still say we should burn a flag! ;)I'll burn a confederate flag. :-) FUCK YOU LYNARD SKYNYRD! A rebel flag, and I live in HOLLAND!!! |
| Lisser 18.04.2006 11:45 |
<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote:Yes, Thomas a statement does mean something to me. I just don't see how burning a flag will make any difference or add anything positive to your call. Certainly you can find some other method that is much more constructive to voice your opinions and stances. A non-violent protest march is a great example of what you could do rather than burn a flag. A walk in the woods could also be a great idea. Sure, why not. You could organize a march through the woods in protest of the US holding prisoners at the Bay. I'd much rather do that then burn a flag or burn anything other than wood to keep warm. I think positive attention will get you further than negative attention. A peaceful protest would get my attention on the core issue at hand rather than a flag burning session. When I see people burning flags, it just send a hate message to me. Why would I back anyone's cause that has hate fueling it?Lisser wrote: Why would you want to burn anything other than firewood to keep warm? Seems like a waste of time to me. It might also pollute the air? No? Find something more fullfilling to do with your time.I suppose the term 'statement' means nothing to you? And I suppose that instead of a protest-march against the war, we should go for a walk in the woods. Far more fun, right? Same kind of logic. |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 12:51 |
Lisser wrote:Again, as it is a powerful statement, not of hate, but of something different: by BURNING the flag, one symbolizes RENEWAL or the need for that (remember the Phoenix?).<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote:Yes, Thomas a statement does mean something to me. I just don't see how burning a flag will make any difference or add anything positive to your call. Certainly you can find some other method that is much more constructive to voice your opinions and stances. A non-violent protest march is a great example of what you could do rather than burn a flag. A walk in the woods could also be a great idea. Sure, why not. You could organize a march through the woods in protest of the US holding prisoners at the Bay. I'd much rather do that then burn a flag or burn anything other than wood to keep warm. I think positive attention will get you further than negative attention. A peaceful protest would get my attention on the core issue at hand rather than a flag burning session. When I see people burning flags, it just send a hate message to me. Why would I back anyone's cause that has hate fueling it?Lisser wrote: Why would you want to burn anything other than firewood to keep warm? Seems like a waste of time to me. It might also pollute the air? No? Find something more fullfilling to do with your time.I suppose the term 'statement' means nothing to you? And I suppose that instead of a protest-march against the war, we should go for a walk in the woods. Far more fun, right? Same kind of logic. |
| Poo, again 18.04.2006 13:10 |
Yes, burning a flag is a very strong statement, indeed. You should try it... not that I've ever burned a flag, but I guess it's just one of those things I've got to do in my lifetime... or maybe not, who knows? |
| Mr.Jingles 18.04.2006 13:22 |
This shit doesn't make sense. Many of us hate Chavez with a passion, and yet we're not burning Venezuelan flags. Imagine how offended Marialvy or anyone from Venezuela would be if we did that. I wasn't born in this country, but I love it and I've learned to consider it like my own. Yes, it has a lot of problems and a corrupt administration, but I still love it anyways. I voice my opinion and criticize this country because I don't allow myself to be brainwashed by the fake patriotism of the extreme right wing. Right now, 2/3rds of this country consider that we're not heading in the right direction, and if we don't speak out, who will change things? One can love a nation and point out various forms of criticism without taking things to the extremes by burning flags or calling for the assassination of someone. I criticize Colombia as well, but it doesn't make me less patriotic to do so. I left Colombia mainly because left wing bastards are fucking it up. These Marxist sick fucks want to turn the entire nation into a communist country, and many times they claim to be the "army of the people", and yet they kill farmers or steal their land if they refuse to grow coke. Fucking hypocrites make me sick. They're the same assholes who burn American flags on public university protests without realizing than they've fucked up the country far more than corporate America has done already. I am so fed up with the extreme left and right wing that I don't know which one to hate more. |
| Lisser 18.04.2006 14:48 |
Amen Dan. Why can't we all just be in the medium instead of well done or rare? I'm hungry. |
| user name 18.04.2006 15:58 |
Despite any symbolic references or actual intents, I have to agree that flag burning does present a negative impact on the general population. It's just better not to do it. No matter what your cause, you will just be seen as either racist, or bigoted, or something else - even if your intent is just to signal that a change is needed. Indeed it is better to send a positive message, such as a peaceful protest. |
| Poo, again 18.04.2006 16:06 |
Wow, I had no idea this discussion of flag burning would get so popular... ;) |
| Mr.Jingles 18.04.2006 18:21 |
I only agree with burning the confederate flag because it represents more racism than heritage. Imagine if Germans were still displaying swastikas and other Nazi symbols and in front of their homes. |
| deleted user 19.04.2006 10:15 |
Lisser wrote: Amen Dan. Why can't we all just be in the medium instead of well done or rare? I'm hungry.Because a medium-steak already tastes like leather? Rare is the only way, hun. |
| deleted user 19.04.2006 10:16 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: I only agree with burning the confederate flag because it represents more racism than heritage. Imagine if Germans were still displaying swastikas and other Nazi symbols and in front of their homes.You'll find plenty of those people, I dare say. Just not in Germany. |
| Sherwood Forest 19.04.2006 19:32 |
Musicman wrote:yea see the thing is i read TQ first post and just thought i knew the natural flow of all these political threads so i jamp to conclusions. But i stilll stand by what i said- maybe not for this thread in particular but just generally.64.396 wrote: i like how everywhere a person fucking goes there is always anti-american politic shit. Even on a fucking internet forum it doesnt stop! I say ya stop posting this crap and have you ignorant opinions about America government but take each person from America for who they are not theyre rich "leaders." sigh fucking hippiesActually, this thread has actually strayed from criticism of American citizens...this is strictly criticism of current governmental policy, and to be honest, it brings up a very valid, insightful, and factual point. So far, all the "ignorant opinions" have been effectively ignored, disregarded, or (in this case) confuted in this thread. That's something we don't see too often. |
| Lisser 19.04.2006 21:00 |
<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote:I can't do blue, it's got to be red and hot for me...hun.Lisser wrote: Amen Dan. Why can't we all just be in the medium instead of well done or rare? I'm hungry.Because a medium-steak already tastes like leather? Rare is the only way, hun. |
| deleted user 20.04.2006 09:54 |
64.396 wrote:The fact that you refer to us as "fucking hippies" not only proves you are not mentally capable of understanding the term 'hippie', but also indicates your intollerance, natural to nationalists. Then there is the fact that you refuse to accept criticism of the US, which is a totalitarian aim, reminiscent of Stalinism and fascism. In conclusion, your referring to our statements regarding the American government as being ignorant seems almost to be projection, as they are all of them founded on solid fact, whilst your 'patriotic' cries are clearly not.Musicman wrote:yea see the thing is i read TQ first post and just thought i knew the natural flow of all these political threads so i jamp to conclusions. But i stilll stand by what i said- maybe not for this thread in particular but just generally.64.396 wrote: i like how everywhere a person fucking goes there is always anti-american politic shit. Even on a fucking internet forum it doesnt stop! I say ya stop posting this crap and have you ignorant opinions about America government but take each person from America for who they are not theyre rich "leaders." sigh fucking hippiesActually, this thread has actually strayed from criticism of American citizens...this is strictly criticism of current governmental policy, and to be honest, it brings up a very valid, insightful, and factual point. So far, all the "ignorant opinions" have been effectively ignored, disregarded, or (in this case) confuted in this thread. That's something we don't see too often. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 20.04.2006 10:29 |
<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote: ...In conclusion, your referring to our statements regarding the American government as being ignorant seems almost to be projection, as they are all of them founded on solid fact, whilst your 'patriotic' cries are clearly not.You know, it's like the Queen fan who sees Queen as perfection. You can love something without thinking it's perfect. That's how I feel about my country. I do love it, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I disagree with just about everything the current administration says and does. In fact, I think the only thing good about this administration is that it's raised debate and (some level of) understanding of politics in this country. That's something too many Americans prefer to ignore. I just wish the debate was more evenly matched. Fact vs. fact, not fact vs. emotion. |
| That guy who digs energy domes 20.04.2006 20:49 |
<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote:So this is the people our troops are fighting for?The Millionaire Waltz wrote: I still say we should burn a flag! ;)Agreed, seeing as it is a POLITICAL statement, and not directed at Americans as an ethnic group. Interesting how anyone defending the Bush-regime resorts to accusations of 'anti-Americanism' when it's just a political issue. You're the people that the Marshall Plan and Trumann doctrine went to help? Gee, thanks |
| Mr.Jingles 20.04.2006 21:41 |
64.396 wrote: sigh fucking hippiesWhen I think of hippies, I think of that hippie teacher from Beavis and Butthead... ...which then makes me think of that episode when he gets thrown out of the bus while singing Kumbaya and then he falls off a cliff. FUCKIN' HILARIOUS! |
| That guy who digs energy domes 20.04.2006 21:42 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:In the immortal words of Eric Cartmann, "Its a bunch of Tree-Hugging-Hippie-Crap!"64.396 wrote: sigh fucking hippiesWhen I think of hippies, I think of that hippie teacher from Beavis and Butthead... ...which then makes me think of that episode when he gets thrown out of the bus while singing Kumbaya and then he falls off a cliff. FUCKIN' HILARIOUS! |
| 7Innuendo7 21.04.2006 02:01 |
It's ironic that George HW Bush and George W Bush are free, since they are both war criminals. Check out Article 51 of the United Nations charter, and Section III part 6 of the Geneva Convention (International laws which the US signed, & follows when it suits the politicians' needs). On July 24, 1990, Saddam Hussein sent his Foreign Minister, Tariq Aziz, to meet with April Glaspie -- deputy ambassador to Joseph Wilson, husband of Valerie Plame, whom we all know about now because of the arrogance and ineptitude of the current American regime. Anyway, Aziz asked permission from the US to invade Kuwait -- Iraq claimed they had evidence that Kuwait violated Iraqi sovereignty (sp?) by drilling sideways into an oil field in Iraq. Bush 41 knew about the troop movements to the Iraq border, but why break up a war party when you've got the big guns? Why is all of this important? Saddam Hussein was a CIA operative (just like Osama Bin Laden...he didn't get those Stinger missiles in a Kabul bazaar, ya know!)during the Cold War, because the USSR has always lusted after a warm-water port; the US wants to rule "pipeline-istan." Remember, Unocal (American oil) funded the Taliban. Hamid Karzai, Afghan PM, is a former Unocal exec. And Russia supports Iraq and Iran. So Bush 43 essentially adopted the tactics of Saddam Hussein by invading Iraq. Sure, Hussein is no beauty contest winner; but, to his credit, he never violated US territory. From the atrocities at Abu Graib to the failure to secure vast caches of explosives, to Donnie Rumsfeld's shameful and disgraceful abandonment of established military tactics, the Iraq war is a mess, and Bush will reap as he sows. But impeaching Bush (failure to uphold the Constitution, oath of office) is just a slap on the wrist. The real solution is to arrest the whole cabal-- from Condoleeza Rice to Karl Rove to Cheney and Bush --and convict them of war crimes in international court. Not that I think it's likely to happen. Given the severity of these crimes (some count as many as 120,000 Iraqi casualties, military and civilian, and compare that to what Saddam is rightly being tried for), the death penalty seems to be the only rational way to communicate to future politicians that wars like the current one in Iraq or "naked aggression," to liberate Bush 41's phrase, is unacceptable. Likewise, by refusing to recognize basic human rights at Guano (sic) Bay, Bush 43 has become as slave to tyranny. Stating "America is addicted to oil" during a State of the disUnion speech is simply code for "Mission Accomplished" to the watching rulers of the military-industrial complex. How much do you pay for gas? Need another tank to go to work, pay for another tank of gas, go home and watch the bread & circus on tv? The roots of it all go back to the end of WWII when Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin met & decided to carve up the map. In 1954 the CIA created the Savak, the Iranian secret police, for the Shah of Pahlivi. Same m.o. as dictatorships in South America. Think for a moment about Fort Benning, GA, where the School of the Americas teaches all the dirty tricks. About twenty-five years later, the children of those tortured, maimed, and killed by the Savak rose up, and held a group of Americans hostage for 444 days. I can't condone the violence-- but the roots go deeply into the Oval Office. What can I say? I'm immensely proud of the professionalism and effectiveness of American troops in difficult situations-- can't ignore the suffering of 9/11 families either-- but there are so many significant issues otherwise (justice and peace for the Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurdish people) to ignore what Bush 43 is doing in Guano (sic) Bay. If Bush was truly interested in democracy, policing Haiti would be much more feasible. It's twisted, but Saddam Hussein clearly did a better job than George W Bush at preventing civil unrest in Iraq. It |
| deleted user 21.04.2006 08:09 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: I only agree with burning the confederate flag because it represents more racism than heritage. Imagine if Germans were still displaying swastikas and other Nazi symbols and in front of their homes.That's complete bullshit. |
| Mr.Jingles 21.04.2006 10:52 |
<font color=green> M@tt wrote:Historically speaking the Confederate flag was created to represent the States who opossed Lincoln and his proposal to ban slavery.Mr.Jingles wrote: I only agree with burning the confederate flag because it represents more racism than heritage. Imagine if Germans were still displaying swastikas and other Nazi symbols and in front of their homes.That's complete bullshit. Just like Germany changed their flag to represent a totalitarian Nazi government. |
| deleted user 21.04.2006 11:15 |
Queen Of Wrestling<h6>Jamie's Louvre wrote:A) The main aim of the Marshall Plan was stimulating the US economy. Or did you happily disregard the fact that the money came with a clause stating that something like 80% of it had to be spent in the US?<b><font color = "crimson">Thomas Quinn wrote:So this is the people our troops are fighting for? You're the people that the Marshall Plan and Trumann doctrine went to help? Gee, thanksThe Millionaire Waltz wrote: I still say we should burn a flag! ;)Agreed, seeing as it is a POLITICAL statement, and not directed at Americans as an ethnic group. Interesting how anyone defending the Bush-regime resorts to accusations of 'anti-Americanism' when it's just a political issue. B) The Truman doctrine was the containment of communism. That meant a) preventing the elections promised in the Paris-treaty from taking place in Vietnam, leading to the war b) forcing Cuba to seek help from the SU, something they didn't want to at first, but were forced to after the US installed a trading blockade c) supporting the murder of a legally elected premier, namely Patrice Lumumba, which led to political instability and a civil war costing tens of thousands of lives and dragged on 'till the late '90s. In addition, UN Secretary-General Dag Hammerskjold, who went to investigate, was shot down in his plane by a WESTERN fighter plane (Belgian). The US helped the cover-up by having thousands of BLACK witnesses declared untrustworthy and a few WHITE ones who weren't even there were made 'credible' Be ashamed, be very much ashamed, for even mentioning that! |
| Erin 21.04.2006 11:16 |
The Confederate flag has been a huge issue here in S.C., of course. The thing that I find crazy is that once the flag finally got taken down from ATOP the State House, it was more prominently displayed on the grounds of the State House in front of the Confederate soldier monument..:-S link link link |
