QueenZone discussion #759827
Was HotSpace and Freddie's moustache the down fall of Queen in America?
| zone 11.04.2006 17:50 |
After The HotSpace record and tour Queen was never the same in America again.Some reports had fans throwing razors on stage letting Freddie know just how they felt. |
| kdj2hot 11.04.2006 21:05 |
I always try to be a nice guy. then I read something I think is ignorant and idiotic and go on calling folks idiots and dummies, making myself seem like a pretentious ass: This is one of those times: Hey Dummy, number 1 they stopped touring in the USA. That more than anything else effected things in the "states". Touring always is the best way to let people know you're still out there and a way to drum up press all over the country. |
| zone 11.04.2006 22:25 |
Well fist of all if you knew anything about the band you would know the reason they stopped touring the states was because of the back lash they were getting from the press and their own fans.I was there in 82 and it was hard being a Queen fan especially with Freddies new look and coming out with an album like Hot Space didn't help.It's obvious you don't know to much about the bands history. Let's try and keep this civil. |
| Donna13 11.04.2006 23:40 |
After Hot Space they didn't get any radio play. We never heard their 80's music because of this. I think there was a negative reaction to Hot Space because there was a negative reaction to anything that was disco or dance music at that point. This was the period after disco and before punk rock and people were really really sick of disco at this point. There were even bumper stickers saying "Disco Sucks!". I don't really think Freddie's look had that much to do with it. However, he did change his look and I think he ended up looking too "Studio 54" (which we associated with disco) and not enough of what we thought rock stars should look like. Also John and Roger cut their hair from the long rock star look. England is usually ahead of the US when it comes to hair styles, I think, and it was much later that the American rock stars started to cut their hair shorter. So, maybe the fans in America thought they were signaling to us that they were no longer going to be a rock band. Who knows about that one. It is not like we were given the opportunity to make our minds up, because Queen just did not make themselves visible in the US after Hot Space. |
| zone 12.04.2006 00:09 |
It just accord to me that KDJ2hot might of misinterpreted what I said about the razors being thrown on stage.It was to let Freddie know they didn't like the moustache not to cut his wrists. |
| teleman 12.04.2006 00:31 |
Donna13 wrote: After Hot Space they didn't get any radio play. We never heard their 80's music because of this. I think there was a negative reaction to Hot Space because there was a negative reaction to anything that was disco or dance music at that point. This was the period after disco and before punk rock and people were really really sick of disco at this point. There were even bumper stickers saying "Disco Sucks!". I don't really think Freddie's look had that much to do with it. However, he did change his look and I think he ended up looking too "Studio 54" (which we associated with disco) and not enough of what we thought rock stars should look like. Also John and Roger cut their hair from the long rock star look. England is usually ahead of the US when it comes to hair styles, I think, and it was much later that the American rock stars started to cut their hair shorter.Sorry but you have your time periods wrong. Punk was a mid to late 70s thing. Think Ramones, Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Clash etc. They were all from the 70s. Disco was slightly earlier than Punk but both predated 'Hot Space' by a few years. 'Hot Space was a major departure from what they'd done before and there was a backlash to that. There was also a backlash to Freddie's 'gay' fashion. I remember people really disliking it. The final nail in the coffin was the 'I Want To Break Free' video. North Americans didn't really get the humour because they didn't know about the TV show Queen were copying. Most saw it as a very "Gay" video. I knew people who had been huge Queen fans up to that time. North America in the 80s was not very open minded in some ways. There were other factors which also came into play as well. There has been a lot of interesting discussion on these boards about this very subject. I'm too lazy to do a search and point to these threads but you might find them of interest. |
| Donna13 12.04.2006 00:47 |
Thanks for the clarificaton on the time periods. |
| RETROLOVE 12.04.2006 02:51 |
One word to describe Queen's relationship in America- BITTERSWEET! I just didnt get the whole being against the "I want to break free" video...I mean come on, its such a cute video...but hey, I was born in 1983...so thats nothing to me...but yeah, its just a shame becuase other British bands get soooooo much respect here in the states...and Queen gets some, but not as much as they should... I think too, the timing for releasing hotspaces was all wrong, because thats when disco really faded out...ya know... |
| goinback 12.04.2006 05:19 |
I still believe Brian's explanation of their record A&R guy pissing everyone off was the real reason...though Flash Gordon, Hot Space and the IWTBF video didn't help. |
| radio_what's_new 12.04.2006 05:59 |
I think the thing what really caused queens dead in the usa was the video for I want to break free. Apart from liberated places as new york, americans didn't understand the humor of it....stupid rednecks |
| ninehi 12.04.2006 07:55 |
We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions was the first nail. Overplayed to the Bay City Rollers effect. Thing Called Love was the second nail. Compared to Ozzy's Blizzard Of Ozz album, they lost a lot of the male audience with this track. Final nail Hot Space & Body Language, nobody cared after that. The video for I Wanna Break Free really didn't get much play. |
| Poo, again 12.04.2006 08:46 |
*throws razors in all directions* |
| radio_what's_new 12.04.2006 09:15 |
ninehi wrote: We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions was the first nail. Overplayed to the Bay City Rollers effect. Thing Called Love was the second nail. Compared to Ozzy's Blizzard Of Ozz album, they lost a lot of the male audience with this track. Final nail Hot Space & Body Language, nobody cared after that. The video for I Wanna Break Free really didn't get much play.CLTCL reached number 1 in the USA so no nail there |
| billycat 12.04.2006 09:21 |
I remember the Radio Ga Ga video being shown on Mtv what seemed like all the time. Can't remember if it was on the radio much though. That was the last I recall seeing much of Queen in the US though until Innuendo. |
| Winter Land Man 12.04.2006 09:33 |
Donna13 wrote: After Hot Space they didn't get any radio play. We never heard their 80's music because of this. I think there was a negative reaction to Hot Space because there was a negative reaction to anything that was disco or dance music at that point. This was the period after disco and before punk rock and people were really really sick of disco at this point. There were even bumper stickers saying "Disco Sucks!". I don't really think Freddie's look had that much to do with it. However, he did change his look and I think he ended up looking too "Studio 54" (which we associated with disco) and not enough of what we thought rock stars should look like. Also John and Roger cut their hair from the long rock star look. England is usually ahead of the US when it comes to hair styles, I think, and it was much later that the American rock stars started to cut their hair shorter. So, maybe the fans in America thought they were signaling to us that they were no longer going to be a rock band. Who knows about that one. It is not like we were given the opportunity to make our minds up, because Queen just did not make themselves visible in the US after Hot Space.Radio GaGa was never played? Well it was played on MTV I know, cause they play the top 20. And Radio GaGa was part of it. And I know they played Hot Space tracks on the radio... and according to others, they heard some other stuff from 'The Works' and 'A Kind Of Magic' as well as someone mentioning they heard 'stuff from 'The Miracle'... I know they played things from 'Innuendo'. One person who was out of Queen for a couple years, first heard Queen again on Freddie's death when 'These Are The Days Of Our Lives' was on the radio, and they got into it again (or something like that). I believe someone recalls hearing 'I Want It All' a LOT on their radio station, and according to 'mainstream rock' which is basically radio, it was #3, and they play the top 40, so that's pretty good. |
| ninehi 12.04.2006 10:14 |
radio_what's_new wrote: CLTCL reached number 1 in the USA so no nail thereYeah it became music your parents & little sister listened to. It surpassed Do That To Me One More Time by the Capt. & Tennille. Ozzy, AC/DC & Van Halen=Cool by teenage North American males, Queen was not at this time. The Game was an album I had to listen to at home, at high school I had Ozzy. NAIL |
| zone 12.04.2006 10:33 |
Your right I only really listen to Queen at home.At school and out with my friends it was always Zeppelin Van Halen and Def Leppard. |
| coops 12.04.2006 10:37 |
Looking back, it's amusing that Queen and FM were so popular when he wore leotards and sequins, finger nail polish, was very camp and so on, but start wearing jeans and a "gay" moustache, and you are no longer cool. In the 80's MTV was becoming popular and video sold singles/albums, and the IWTBF video just did not cut it here. The humor was lost, sales were poor and who tours a country after poor sales? |
| queenfan7474 12.04.2006 13:09 |
I love how everyone says the "gay" part of the i want to break free video was the guys dressed up as women.The gay part is the extended middle part with freddie rolling around on the other bodies,blowing the horn and being carried around.That part was the gay part.As far as why their popularity lessened,i think its because their music became uninspired pop.Also because they did 2 soundtracks to two horrible movies and like everyone said,didnt tour here.Check the charts from the Works.GA GA,Break Free,and Hard Life all charted.Not touring here didnt help support that.After that it was too late. |
| Donna13 12.04.2006 13:23 |
I do remember hearing Radio Ga Ga played on the radio a few times, but not much. |
| kdj2hot 12.04.2006 14:26 |
zone wrote: Well fist of all if you knew anything about the band you would know the reason they stopped touring the states was because of the back lash they were getting from the press and their own fans.I was there in 82 and it was hard being a Queen fan especially with Freddies new look and coming out with an album like Hot Space didn't help.It's obvious you don't know to much about the bands history. Let's try and keep this civil.I'm not gonna argue if you were there. Though I'm sure some people who were alive during WW2 wouldn't know more than a researcher now days. Body Language was a top ten, a a bigger hit here than it was in the UK. Under Pressure was also a somewhat big hit and botrh were ion this " shitty" album called Hot Space, yet Hot Space was more successful than any of their other 80's albums minus the Game if you count that as an 80's album... Hmmm, what's the difference between those (2) albums and the rest... oh yeah THEY WEREN'T TOURING. If they have toured they would've been more successful with the mediocre music and had more of a presence. It wasn't a stupid razor thing or fans being pissed off. Fans just forgot about them and there was no incentive to bring them up. |
| bgordon88 12.04.2006 15:02 |
Hot Space(DISCO) AND Flash Gordon AND the moustache AND "I Want To Break Free" all were contributory factors. Good thing too cos if America had liked Hot Space we might have got Hot Space 2. |
| zone 12.04.2006 15:09 |
Free razors with Hot Space II? |
| kdj2hot 12.04.2006 15:32 |
bgordon88 wrote: Hot Space(DISCO) AND Flash Gordon AND the moustache AND "I Want To Break Free" all were contributory factors. Good thing too cos if America had liked Hot Space we might have got Hot Space 2.First of all if you don't live in America your opinion shouldn't count... |
| zone 12.04.2006 15:33 |
Freddies new look in the 80's really did alienate them from their fans in the U.S.And their musical direction didn't help either. It was Freddie who didn't want to come back to the states that's when they discovered South America and found out that they could tour the rest of the world and do just fine with out America. Of course not touring the U.S.heart their popularity there but it was ultimately the negativeness that they encountered that pushed them away from the U.S. |
| zone 12.04.2006 15:40 |
Kdj2hot What do you mean if you don't live in America your opinion doesn't count?Wat are you part of the KKK? Now your really talking stupid. |
| kdj2hot 12.04.2006 15:50 |
zone wrote: Kdj2hot What do you mean if you don't live in America your opinion doesn't count?Wat are you part of the KKK? Now your really talking stupid.If you don't live in the USA how can you comment on how their popularity was hurt? I doubt that Queen experienced "negativeness" while touring to support Hot Space in the USA. The razor this is blown out of proportion and wasn't that serious. It was mostly a joke I imagine. The way you're trying to portray it is like Freddie was getting bombarded by razors and left the stage grying. It wasn't anywhere close to that. |
| mjk12345 12.04.2006 15:58 |
I want to weigh in with my perspective on this, which I'm sure is different and unique from others that were around at that time. From a popularity perspective (again, amongst my group of friends) Queen peaked from the time they released NOTW through their Greatest Hits album. Everyone I knew had those albums and played them all the time, with the exception of Flash. Under Pressure was on MTV and in the U.S. Queen was as popular as just about any band around. Hot Space came out and although Under Pressure was on that record its popularity really coincided with the Greatest Hits. At around this time I was in the military tucked away in the backwaters of Louisiana, didn't have/take the opportunity to see them live, and relied exclusively on MTV for new music. I don't recall seeing any video from Hot Space on MTV and don't recall hearing any Queen songs on the radio. My feeling at the time was that Freddie was probably too flamboyant and gay for American audiences and that was hurting Queen's appeal. When I think about what was on MTV at that time there were certainly a lot of flamboyant performers like Flock of Seagulls and Thompson Twins that were popular but they seemed to be flamboyant in a way I can only describe as "weird". Freddie pushed the envelope in more of a sexual manner that I think made middle America very uncomfortable. By the time I was in college and grad school Queen had decided to conquer other continents and their popularity in the U.S. suffered as a result. I stopped watching MTV and I think they stopped playing video music anyway. Without an outlet to promote their music they really fell way out of the mainstream. Oh well, my 2 cents. |
| bgordon88 12.04.2006 16:12 |
kdj2hot wrote:I think we are all entitled to opinions on what is going on in other countries. (I have quite a strong opinion on the Iraq war but this might not be the right forum.)bgordon88 wrote: Hot Space(DISCO) AND Flash Gordon AND the moustache AND "I Want To Break Free" all were contributory factors. Good thing too cos if America had liked Hot Space we might have got Hot Space 2.First of all if you don't live in America your opinion shouldn't count... Anyway Queen nearly blew it over here too but we were more forgiving. |
| Winter Land Man 12.04.2006 16:13 |
If 'Body Language' came out in 2005, trust me, it would of hit #1. A lot of the teens are into sexual and dance music now... I had THREE ladies strip in front of me while I was playing 'Body Language' on my cassette player, and I did not request a strip show. In fact, every teen girl I play 'Hot Space' to, LOVES the album. Boys, they usually like the rock songs, but females prefer the dance stuff. Though if the girl is listening to the dance part, the men will too. I NEVER leave my house without my Hot Space cassette now. The only thing people dislike is when I'm playing Body Language going through the McDonald's drivethru cause the ladies there arn't good on their bodies, reminds me of the fat ladies in the video. |
| M a t i a s M a y 12.04.2006 17:13 |
Hot Space was the down fall of Queen everywhere, it sucks! |
| maxpower 12.04.2006 17:24 |
the real question is who gives a fuck? I mean as Roger put it "we were too busy to notice" touring south africa, new zealand, south america, japan & europe more than made up for it. |
| Deacons 1st Choice 13.04.2006 21:54 |
Well, i'd have to say that the album and the sudden change in the Bands' look certainly made a impact, but there were many other things that culmiated to the sad end of Queen's original reign here in the States. Hot Space was ahead of it's time in a way ( Brian comments on this himself many times)...i mean, look at what MJ's 'Thriller" did a mere year later. Unfortunatley, i think the Band were very dissconnected to each other and they lost a bit of their focus on what they were supposed to be doing. Munich was not a very good place to seriously work and not become caught up in distractions. There was some serious partying going on back in that era, and there was also a lot a stress and tension within the band..almost to a breaking point. You can see it in the images from that time and you can hear it plain as day in the music. They were not entirely happy, and after living in each others pockets for 10 years they needed some time away from each other. This was very obviouis to those who saw the 82' Hot Space Tour here in the US. When Hot Space was a bust, they took it hard and decided to try out some new territory where they were enjoying phenominal success in areas that had recently opened up to them in popularity ( South America, etc.). It was decided to go where they seemed to be 'wanted". When the time came to decided where to tour, the Band often looked at the sales results of the previous album as a guide. Since Hot Space was a utter flop on US shores, they did'nt bother coming back for The Works Tour. It also has been said that Freddie's ego had to be appeased, and did not want to go back and Tour anyplace where they would be "smaller" then before ( smaller venues instead of huge top bill arenas here). So they waited. The Works came out and the Band hoped that the harder rock edge would help boost there sagging popularity here. Radio stations were starting to play the new hot single 'Radio Ga Ga" but then the big Capitol Records "payola" scandal hit the news. For those who do not know, this story broke just as 'Ga Ga" was starting to chart. The scandal was that Captiol Records was involved in the old practice of paying off DJ's and Video stations to constantly plug there songs/records to the hopes of hyping something into a hit. It's been going on for ages in the music industry..nothing new really...but it made national headlines and radio staions here starting dropped all Captiol issued singles from their playlists. Guess which record was also dumped? Yep..you guessed it..."Ga Ga" and the album it was off from. Here in MA i heard "Ga Ga" a lot of times on the radio...but then again this is Boston and we have always has huge Queen airplay here. Even when the payola scandal broke, local stations kept cranking it out. MTV played the video a lot too as previously noted. If this was'nt enough, in later years the problems regarding a PR fellow being too bossy and mean to radio people and other press folk came to light. So all of these unfortunate things happened all at once and Queen were caught in the crossfire. They honestly felt the US had no further interest in them, so turned thier sights to other horizons. Hot Space is a lousy album, and i used to hate it with a deep passion simply because of what it came to represent from a US Fans' perspective ( the total destruction of Queen's mighty reign here). Now however i listen to the album with wiser ears and it's not as bad as many make it out to be. I enjoy quite a few songs a lot actually....but i draw the line with "Staying Power" Argh! The very sound of those dreadful horns makes me cringe! |
| zone 13.04.2006 23:05 |
I totally forgot about the payola thing thanks for the reminder .Your right Freddie didn't want to come back to the states and work, why play small venues when you could do Europe and South America and pull in 70 to 80 thousand a night. He did say he hated the American tours because they were so long. Besides Under Pressure the band has said they would never play anything off Hot Space live again .This really was a turning point in their carrier .This album really did a number on the band. |
| Joeker 14.04.2006 17:20 |
well it couldnt of been the mustache...because i recall alot of men in the 80's having mustaches gay or straight |
| Poo, again 14.04.2006 17:25 |
Face it, Freddie's moustache was pure evil. |
| mike hunt 16.04.2006 00:30 |
anybody who thinks a silly mustache has anything to do with queens downfall in the states is an ass. Anyone who was around in the early eighties knows that you were either a rock or disco fan, no in betweens. When queen put out hot space their rock fans felt betrayed, and felt queen sold out. Their not the only band in history to release a hated album, judas priests "turbo" album had the same effect on that band. anytime a bit time band changes their direction they run that risk. so people stop with this stupid mustache thing!....Since when do only gay men have mustaches? I remember straight men from that era who had thicker mustaches then freddie, "burt reynolds" is an example of this. |
| Poo, again 16.04.2006 08:36 |
Well, thank you for calling me an ass. It really made my day. But wait... I couldn't care less! |
| HDvorak 16.04.2006 23:19 |
Also, remember that Hot Space was recorded during the time Freddie and Michael Jackson had a brief friendship. MJ has often commented that Hot Space was an enormous influence on his Thriller. Odd that Queen's bomb would influence the best selling album in the world......... |
| mike hunt 17.04.2006 01:25 |
that's another thing that bugs me, when people say how queens HS was a huge influence on MJ. I never heard michael say anything about hot space, just because brian says something doesn't make it true. Once and for all, stop with this stupid moustache thing!... the only thing that hurt queen was their musical direction. yes, I'm old enough to remember 1982 quit well, and i also remember queen fans telling each other not buy this disco crap. It's a shame because when I listen to hot space with adult ears, it's actually a pretty good album. |
| Poo, again 17.04.2006 07:29 |
I still believe that all moustaches are evil. Pure evil. |
| HDvorak 17.04.2006 09:16 |
mike hunt wrote: that's another thing that bugs me, when people say how queens HS was a huge influence on MJ. I never heard michael say anything about hot space, just because brian says something doesn't make it true.Sorry that you had never read about MJ giving Hot Space it's rightful props, but 'tis true. I've read interviews with the wackophile, where he discusses how it influenced Thriller. That makes it true! :) Also, remember MJ was recording with Freddie at the time, and was in the audience for Queen's last US gig of the 20th century, in LA. |
| zone 17.04.2006 13:11 |
Michael Jackson was also the one who told Queen to put Another One Bites The Dust out as a single . |
| Bob-Plant 18.04.2006 08:33 |
My recollections of 1982 (I think the album came out in May, shortly before school let out) Rock magazines were making reference to the new album "having a different sound". Most critcs and magazines slammed the album hard. Most of the previous posts are correct-is is probably a combination of everything already said that caused the album to bomb (bad timing for a dance oriented sounding album, Freddie's change of appearance while America was more homophobic than we are now) and probably the one thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned-backlash against a band enjoying a popular run. It happens to EVERY band that is doing well for a while. I am not saying any of it was right or fair, but being the old fart that I am, I saw it happen. Consequently, the tour was not doing as well as the band hoped (Billy Squier was opening I think). Like many fans though, I like album more now than I did at the time. (My guilty little pleasure? Calling are Girls-I make no apologies!) |
| deleted user 18.04.2006 12:15 |
Poor moustache... I love that moustache. It was a REAL moustace. Not some sissy one like whatever that twerp Orlando Bloom had... Ew... I wrote Orlando Bloom... Twice... I must go wash my hands. |
| mike hunt 19.04.2006 00:31 |
some people do like hot space, I know david bowie was into it, singing cool cat with freddie and if michael was infact inspired by HS I wouldn't be surprised. Like the last poster said, It's a guilty pleasure. It took ages to grow on me, but I eventually played that album consistently, it's a fun listen. |
| luthorn 20.04.2006 00:18 |
After partying his ass off, that's right, in New York City, Freddie realized that American cock doesn't do it for him. You know: Americans don't last that long, are small, and have no balls. Freddie saw it all, afterall he only had sex with 956 US guys. Freddie did statistics, and such, and concluded that South Americans and Europeans are THE REAL MEN and toured only there since. |
| RETROLOVE 20.04.2006 02:26 |
Messenger Of Leah wrote: If 'Body Language' came out in 2005, trust me, it would of hit #1. A lot of the teens are into sexual and dance music now... I had THREE ladies strip in front of me while I was playing 'Body Language' on my cassette player, and I did not request a strip show. In fact, every teen girl I play 'Hot Space' to, LOVES the album. Boys, they usually like the rock songs, but females prefer the dance stuff. Though if the girl is listening to the dance part, the men will too. I NEVER leave my house without my Hot Space cassette now. The only thing people dislike is when I'm playing Body Language going through the McDonald's drivethru cause the ladies there arn't good on their bodies, reminds me of the fat ladies in the video.Ha! LOL, how ironic... its crazy how you can go back on somthing and discover that you actually loved it more than you hated it!! LOL |