| Michael Allred 21.03.2006 16:20 |
If there has been anything that stood out the most about this tour it's that whoever is responsible for promoting this tour should be fired. Instantly. Just look at the crowds, Pittsburg's numbers sounded dreadful. Brian has commented himself about the lack of promotion in the cities they play. What more do they need? An ACME anvil to fall on their heads? The only bits of promotion they got (if you can call it that) were local newspaper interviews (god, how old fashioned is that?) and as far as I'm aware, the only national bit they got was on Rockline. I can't say for certain how much Rockline did for them without knowing what kind of numbers that show routinely brings in. The single biggest mistake was not getting on US TV to promote the tour. Granted it's not over yet but it doesn't look like their "plans" (as they are) will change. Would it have killed them to get booked on any of the popular late night talk shows? Hell, Brian went on Jay Leno back in the early 90s (and that was before Leno was #1 in the ratings.) The best they could muster for US TV was VH1 Classic (not exactly THE best place to get the word out) but even that wasn't going to help much because the show with Roger and Paul was taped last year with NO mention of a US tour. I'll concede that some shows saw some fairly good numbers but overall it's been dismal I think. We should've had an inkling though. "Return of the Champions" got no promotion either (even now with them on tour, nothing. Couldn't Hollywood Records have placed a full page ad in Rolling Stone with something like "Queen+ Paul Rodgers: Return of the Champions on CD and DVD. NOW ON TOUR!" Something as simple as that?) Hollywood Records have always had a pretty poor track record promoting Queen but their biggest excuse was that they had no "band" out there releasing new product or playing live to work with. They do now and yet they have still failed. Perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised considering Hollywood Records is a second tier record label with only a handful of "name" artists and the majority of their releases being movie soundtracks. To be fair, Queen must share some of the fault here. They chose to stick with the record label when they re-signed with them. Was it that there wasn't a single record company that held some modicum of interest in signing them, make some money off their catalog? Was it laziness on the band's behalf in not bothering to test the waters? Queen have stuck to their guns but unfortunately are also stuck in a no-win situation. They seemingly refuse to try something new, work with different people and try to approach things in a fresh way. If anything, I hope this tour will open their eyes and make them realize something needs to change or else they will forever be stuck in the "also rans" category in the USA. America isn't Europe or Japan where you can ride on your reputation. You have to be agressive here and they clearly have not been. Their supporting team (record label, promotional folks, etc) have let them down in a big way. They may never tour here again and I say it's NOT because of a lack of interest by the general population here. It's that, outside of their core fan base, nobody knows about the tour. Maybe this "hide and seek" approach to the tour would've worked better had they toured smaller clubs and whatnot instead of the bigger arenas (I think they got fooled by the turn outs in LA and New Jersey last year.) Guys, if you want to go out with a bigger bang in the States, you'd better find a new way to look at things because right now, it ain't working. I'll be attending the Chicago show this week and I desperately hope there will be more than 5,000 people there. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 21.03.2006 16:40 |
Excellent post Michael. I'm a believer that the fault lies with Queen Productions. QP is a huge company, and if Microsoft has a problem with fans not cooling their computers, it's a Microsoft issue, not the fan maker. QP had to have known what kind of promotional pitch was being made going in, or were they testing the US waters without making a big cash outlay? Either way, they choose who they work with (Hollywood Records, The Torpedo Twins, Greg Brooks, etc.) and they seem to make some funky choices. |
| KingRat 21.03.2006 17:15 |
Yes, i totally agree with everything you are saying and I've been thinking exactly the same thing for the last few days. I was at the Toronto show and even though it was close to a sell out i still saw some empty seats in the arena and that was really dissapointing to me as a fan. Earlier in the day i spoke to a few people at my work about the concert and all of them were surprised about Queen playing Toronto that night. I would say that about 50% of the people i spoke with said they would have seriously thought of going to the show had they known about it. Same thing happened to my friends who came to the show with me. They told me that many people they spoke with were not aware of the concert and showed interest. So why was there so little promotion? Bad decisions on behalf of QPR team but its too late now. I still enjoyed the concert but it would have been great to see a sell out weeks before the show. |
| snowdog212 21.03.2006 17:25 |
It was the PR for this tour. But if they come back to the states. They have to do it as a summer tour. They then can play AMPHITHETERS that hold less then the big Arenas. I think the outdoor venues are great for the Older acts that are still playing. I love the venues |
| teleman 21.03.2006 17:39 |
I was at the Toronto show and it was nice to see a decent sized crowd but if the general public knew it could easily have sold out. In '93 there was no promotion for Brian's show in Toronto. I found out after he had finished. I would have given almost anything to have been there. This tour is the same. No promotion. Everyone I told was interested and with enough time all would have been able to adjust schedules, hire babysitters etc, in order to go see Q+PR. There are fans out there who want to see Q+PR but they don't know. |
| S@turn 21.03.2006 18:02 |
face it. A group that has the same repertoire (spelling) over 20 years might been forgetten a bit, especially when they return as a 'cover band' with two essential members missing I should say, better half full with motivated people then a full house with people who are not intrested Who cares if you have a great time if there are 1 million people or just 100? |
| stateside fan 21.03.2006 19:51 |
Being a attendance geek i totally agree with the fact that lack of pinpoint promotion is the issue.The diehards and rockers know about it,but who else??No mainstream media outlets were used to promote.VH1 Classic is reaching the audience who already knows and who the hell listens to Rockline anymore?This tour would have been better served advertising on ESPN or some of the Mens mags like Blender where young to mid aged males with a few bucks budgeted for entertainment are to be found.Also i think having someone as out of the loop as Paul Rodgers as your partner hurts.he would rather play the house of blues with Muddy Waters then arenas of this size.Having said all that this tour will still be near the top of the grossing tours because of the prices and the fact that the major cities have turned out well. |
| geck014 21.03.2006 20:12 |
You're totally right. It was a shame how little promotion was going on in my hometown, Pittsburgh. I know Mellon Arena would have been way fuller if there was more advertising. The only advertising I saw was one article in the paper, and I think I heard 2 ads on the radio. There needs to be way more promotion than that for a band that's been in hibernation for so long. |
| Donna13 21.03.2006 20:25 |
The only commercial I heard for Queen coming to DC was on the all-news radio station. I heard it once - a day or two before the concert I think. |
| zone 21.03.2006 20:31 |
When I told people I was going to see Queen the response I would get was,it's not QUEEN or who's singing for them or when are they coming.If you're gonna do a tour after so many years you really have to get in peoples faces. |
| Kilpat1 21.03.2006 20:33 |
you know the other major problem was the venue choices and their location. Miami and jacksonville not good choices. They dont play atlanta they play a suburb, they come to Ny they play Nassau instead of MSG. Nassau is a dump. The Islanders dont even draw. Worcester?? Suburb of Boston.. Buffalo??? who plays Buffalo. Just bad choices all around I saw 4 shows here and i felt bad for them especially in Buffalo. Hopefully the rest of the tour gets better! |
| stateside fan 21.03.2006 21:03 |
they dont hand pick the dates.The national promoter puts the show up for sale and local promoters in various cities buy the shows.What happens is the local guys fail to have a read for the markets they are in.The Queen show was so expensive from Metropolitan(national) that the venue size had to be arenas if the local outfits wanted to bid.Queen is paid in full before they even begun the tour and get the lions share of merchandise as they roll from town to town.In retrospect the fees for shows should have been staggered to allow for smaller venues in these remote and less populated areas like Jax or Buffalo.Although Brian says they have nothing to due with prices-he has everything to do with prices as QPR negotiates the demand with Metropolitan.They probably saw the full houses in NY and La earlier and had some smoke blown up their asses as well. |
| Donna13 21.03.2006 21:23 |
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| fredrogbrijohn 21.03.2006 21:28 |
Bad Company typically gets more radio airplay then Queen in the NYC area anyway. The commerical for the tour on VH1 never showed that Paul would sing some of his stuff. They could have rotated a few different songs on the commercial - even I was getting sick of seeing/hearing WATC and WWRY over and over and over and over again. On Ticketmaster's home page, except for when the tour was announced, it was never mentioned and recently it was never mentioned on the site as a "hot" show or a must see show. No emails to Ticketmaster users to say tickets were still available, etc. |
| stateside fan 21.03.2006 21:35 |
great point Donna.when you deal with anything "nostalgia" driven in sales its hard to read your market.What i think is that Metroplitan talent is very old school and Queen has been removed from the scene here.a deadly combo indeed.I also misread the tour as i thought they would do well.My excuse is i know here in Philly Queen are very popular and are in the other east coast cities as well.I also figured the tour,with VH1 as a national partner would be force fed into towns that needed a reminder that the tour was on.the shame is the local guys were probably given no "buyback" or refund from metropolitan so if Queen returns in any form these guys wont make the same mistake twice.i catch hell for saying this but too syphon 200.00 bucks a ticket from the the loyals was also a mistake and created a situation where these tix in many cases would not be used as gifts. |
| shammy 21.03.2006 22:39 |
There’s a lot of great points made here. It almost seems like a continuation of the time in the early 80’s when the band lost their crown in this country commercially. Guess it will always give us something to think about though and we’ll probably never be able to answer all the questions. I was in shock when the ticket prices were announced. I think they are worth it but...they could reel in many more curious fans if the prices were kept in check. Hmm…let’s see…Queen’s first American tour in 24 years means that their lives shows are not really legendary over here outside of their core fans who will never lose faith in them. Long term, it would have been far better to keep prices down to introduce the music to curious fans and then suck them in by playing smokin’ hot rock as Q+PR are doing. I’m a core Queen fan but to charge more for tickets in smaller cities than U2 did doesn’t make any sense. Particularly if the shows weren’t even going to be promoted. Someone must have known this ahead of time before the boys set out. Also, as far as I’m concerned, the band isn’t really promoting new material. They are touring in conjunction with the release of a live album that, in itself, receives little airplay. If there’s no contemporary radio airplay, how are people to know you are coming to town? It’s a shame these gems remain hidden to thirsty rock fans. I feel bad for the boys in the slightly smaller cities like Jacksonville and Pittsburgh as I feel they could have really reached out to a new market and, we all know, the show is worthy of being among the best in rock. Anyway, enough of that – let’s just enjoy our band and appreciate the fact that we’re finally able to have them make our dreams come true again. I’m just loving it myself. This time last year, who would have thought it? We're the real ones cashing in here. |
| Jakobe 22.03.2006 00:49 |
I was talking to the couple in front of me before the show in Atlanta and they said the only way they found out about the tour was through ticketmaster promotional emails that they got. Then I started thinking. The only way I knew about it was because of Queenzone. I did see the VH1 Classics channel commercial, but that was at a friends house one night where we watched that channel for hours! It's a good station, too bad everyone doesn't get it! I think only avid fans like ourselves actually got advanced notice of this US tour, the casual fans that are at the shows just got lucky...because there is almost no way for them to find out. Ticket prices, now that's another issue... |
| Mr. Scully 22.03.2006 02:35 |
Do the Americans have to be spoon fed? The European tour was sold out before the tour was even announced. It's not really about promotion (which indeed IS bad), it's mainly about fans. If a 15-million city can't find 10000 Queen fans, then Queen should tour somewhere else! Queen should tour Europe, Japan or South America. Not USA. In USA they will earn much more money than anywhere else (high ticket prices, a lot of sold merchandise) - but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola. (This post is not aimed against American QueenZoners who are among the "good fans" and who probably travelled hundreds of miles to see their favourite group) |
| S@turn 22.03.2006 04:56 |
I fear that Scully said in more clear words what I mean as well, so I have to agree with you, MrScully! :) Reading the thread made me wonder indeed how much promo is needed to sell out. |
| wstüssyb 22.03.2006 06:30 |
The thing about touring in America, we have so many tours that take place that most people fail to pay attention any more, the Arena that is 30 miles away from practically host 3-4 shows a week, radio advertsing is pretty much out of the question now days as most people dont listen, ( the old and proven way to promote tours) Today I drove 1,075 miles just for a 2 hour show lol |
| magicmatze 22.03.2006 07:17 |
That's all right, but I think they should fire (or kill?) those people who gave this clever suggestion to do a NORTH-American tour. |
| 1bigdaddycool 22.03.2006 08:51 |
Bottom line is: if they would've booked the proper sized venues,5k to 10k, many if not all would've sold out... & we & they would be feeling alot differently about this - many venues on the european leg were just this size - Ego wise A lot better to sell out a 7500 seat arena than to play to a half full 15,000 seater.. I'm sure the bean counters for the promotors fiqured that it wasn't worth $ to dump into pr/advert.. they want to get maxium return as well & don't you think they have done this enough to know what is worth it & what is just pissing away good money? |
| Mr. Farenheit 22.03.2006 09:01 |
1bigdaddycool wrote: Bottom line is: if they would've booked the proper sized venues,5k to 10k, many if not all would've sold out... & we & they would be feeling alot differently about this - many venues on the european leg were just this size - Ego wise A lot better to sell out a 7500 seat arena than to play to a half full 15,000 seater.. I'm sure the bean counters for the promotors fiqured that it wasn't worth $ to dump into pr/advert.. they want to get maxium return as well & don't you think they have done this enough to know what is worth it & what is just pissing away good money?This is exactly right. ALl this talk about lack of promotion is a joke. You dont think that people know that they are touring? Are you kidding me? Potential concert-goers know that they are around....people JUST DONT GO TO CONCERTS THAT MUCH ANYMORE!!! Especially in the age group of Queen fans. Unless you are gigantic (McCartney etc..) it's not going to happen. THe problem with this tour was/is obvious. Too many shows....too close together...in too large of arenas. Totally predictable (as many of us here did) and totally avoidable. |
| 1bigdaddycool 22.03.2006 09:09 |
If isn't wasn't for Queen no way were you getting me out to to deal w/ parking,traffic,hugh crowds etc.. On a Tues evening... Now I'm a fan & of course i was there w/ 9 others in my family & we all had a great time but if it was any other band I wouldn't have been there. & the casual fan in my age group 40+....fuhgettaboudit |
| PieterMC 22.03.2006 09:14 |
Mr. Scully wrote: Do the Americans have to be spoon fed? The European tour was sold out before the tour was even announced. It's not really about promotion (which indeed IS bad), it's mainly about fans. If a 15-million city can't find 10000 Queen fans, then Queen should tour somewhere else! Queen should tour Europe, Japan or South America. Not USA. In USA they will earn much more money than anywhere else (high ticket prices, a lot of sold merchandise) - but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola.To compare the European tour ticket sales to the US tour is crazy. You just cannot compare the two. Queen retained their popularity in Europe, they did not in the US. As William said there are SO many tours here that competition is very strong. People can't afford to go to every show that comes around. Nevermind the fact that this is Queen without Freddie, who in the eyes of many over here WAS Queen. It is ALL about promotion. If people don't know they are coming how can they go? I also saw plenty of people sitting on their "fat ass" on the Sheffield DVD. It's not just an American thing. Do you really think that after an absence of over 20+ years that they were going to sell out arenas? They could not even do that on the Hot Space tour with Freddie. Overall they have only had 2-3 shows where the attendance was really poor. Even then sales in these areas are comparable to other acts such as Aerosmith. Of course tickets costing $200 does not help sales either. At the end of the day the blame lies with the people who organized this tour. |
| wegotit 22.03.2006 09:15 |
Mr. Scully wrote: Do the Americans have to be spoon fed? The European tour was sold out before the tour was even announced. It's not really about promotion (which indeed IS bad), it's mainly about fans. If a 15-million city can't find 10000 Queen fans, then Queen should tour somewhere else! Queen should tour Europe, Japan or South America. Not USA. In USA they will earn much more money than anywhere else (high ticket prices, a lot of sold merchandise) - but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola.Martin you are more than right! and THIS was also the reason why Queen did not tour the States in 1984, 1985 or 1986 when a certain Freddie Mercury was still around! |
| Erin 22.03.2006 09:25 |
Mr. Scully wrote: but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola.Something you have to keep in mind about here is that we do not have general admission. There isn't the same atmosphere when the HUGE fans can't get right by the stage and around the catwalk. A lot of times it comes down to who can afford the best tickets, which often get bought up by scalpers. Another thing is, the US is a big country. There are plenty of Queen fans here, I am sure, but not a lot of people can travel so far to see the shows. For many people, long drives or flights would be necessary. Not to mention the fact that people would have to pay for hotel rooms. You can't just pop on a train over here cheaply like you can in Europe. The loyal fans that followed the tour there didn't have nearly as far to travel between dates. It's just totally different here. We are driving over 3000 miles, paid for a week's worth of hotels, bought 12 overpriced tickets... I'm sure going to 6 shows in Europe would have been SO much easier. |
| Mr Faron Hyte 22.03.2006 09:43 |
I have flown 5000 miles, driven 24 hours total, and spent about 5000 dollars on tickets, flights, gasoline, and hotel bills, to see three shows. Erin knows what she's talking about. |
| Fenderek 22.03.2006 09:57 |
I see the Yankes point of view ;) I saw 7 gigs. Cost me about 300 pounds for tickets and for all transport I paid 100 pounds. With teh programes and beer and t-shirts- if I spent 600 pounds that's about it. Now I was able to six 5 of those shows from first rows, because of general admision. The only ones I haven't were Wembley and Hyde Park (wasn't in Golden Circle). There were many fans sitting on their asses in Europe- in back rows... On the other hand Peter- Sheffield was really not representative at all! Just after the gig I said that it was the worst audience I saw on that tour- I wrote volumes about it :) All in all- I wish theu toured Europe instead of USA, of course ;) In fact- I wish they just played 10 shows in London ;) I can see what IS wrong with this US Tour, but... at the same time see American fans being excited (and they do deserve it) and... I can see reasons why they do it... Agree that PR jOb is done in a very bad way. But the European shows weren't THAT perfect either, it wasn't all rose garden here... I'm sure the feeling of it all about US would have been different had they had the general admision. |
| PieterMC 22.03.2006 10:00 |
Fenderek wrote: On the other hand Peter- Sheffield was really not representative at all! Just after the gig I said that it was the worst audience I saw on that tour- I wrote volumes about it :)Oh, I know. My point was just that it's not only Americans that sit down :-) |
| Erin 22.03.2006 10:16 |
Fenderek wrote: I saw 7 gigs. Cost me about 300 pounds for tickets and for all transport I paid 100 pounds. With teh programes and beer and t-shirts- if I spent 600 pounds that's about it. Now I was able to six 5 of those shows from first rows, because of general admision.Well..let's see..I'd say we are spending roughly $650 on hotels and gas and about $1200 on tickets for 6 gigs. This, of course, isn't including the $500 we spent on plane tickets to NJ and the ridiculous amount of money we flushed down the toilet on those VIP packages. (I won't go there, though!) ;-) Of course, there is merchandise and food costs to add to all of that. We have good seats, sometimes great!, for every show, BUT we had to upgrade tickets a few times because better ones became available. We are on the sides in Chicago. I couldn't swing the $200 on those tix, so settled for the $125. Really would love to be by the catwalk every time, though. If it was general admission, I WOULD be. |
| zone 22.03.2006 11:37 |
If Queen had not come to North America we'd all be bitching about them not coming.Screw the attendance if they come back I'll go see them again and I don't give a shit if it's a half full arena .Bottom line I want to see them.By the way Toronto was close to a sell out,if they come back I hope they hit my city again.(they should do some more Canadian dates.) |
| zone 22.03.2006 11:55 |
Another thing too,this is really Rodger and Brian with Paul Rodgers,no Freddie or John Deacon ,and I think they're still pulling in some good crowds .let's keep thing's in perspective here it's not the original Queen.I think they're doing just fine. |
| Mr Faron Hyte 22.03.2006 12:17 |
I agree with zone - the tour was never going to be perfect and it has been far from it. Yes, the PR has been bad and yes the attendance could have been better at some of the shows. Queen fans are not used to Queen being much less than at the very top, and perhaps its hard for some to accept them doing "just ok". BUT let's not lose perspective of the important things - they're touring North America for the first time in 24 years, they're touring at all, the music has been amazing, the band is playing tremendously well, they've played some terrific gigs over here, and we all got to live out a dream by seeing them (and some of us several times). So let's not overlook the good while focusing on the not-so-good, because there's an awful lot of good! My schedule and finances won't permit me to see them again on this tour, but I hope everybody who sees the second half of the tour has as much fun as I did. Short of going out for drinks with the band, I could not be happier about my experiences. Its been an amazing ride for me and even if I did pay for the experience myself, I really appreciate the guys schlepping over here and giving up 2 months of their lives to make this happen - even if it wasn't perfectly planned and coordinated. Its too late to worry about it now. Just go and have a good time. |
| Delilah 22.03.2006 12:39 |
I just have to say one thing...especially to any European fans. We have been denied this band since 1982. Brian played some solo gigs here but it was nothing compared to the city total he did in Europe. Same thing with Roger only he didn't bother to come. First of all, it's damned expensive to tour North America because of the distance from place to place and that came straight from the horse's mouth years ago. I do think their PR has been insufficient. We had dinner at a restaurant only one black from Buffalo Arena and when the host asked who was playing the show and we said "Queen", he was blown away. He didn't know it, he hadn't heard anything and he's a fan from way back. "Real" fans aren't only the ones that visit the band websites on a daily basis. All it would take for the band to get a few more seats would be radio PR. I'm sure that "the boys" knew ahead of time what publicity there would be - they are on top of everything else. It is Queen, after all. Hasn't anyone noticed the sound of these shows? They're the best you'll ever hear because they take the time to hire good equipment and that follows through with most aspects of their show so I don't think it can be blamed on whoever is in charge of PR. I still think the cost of the shows are ridiculous and that probably doesn't help sales either. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 22.03.2006 12:48 |
It's a lot of things. I love Queen, and as we all do, know everything about them. However, in North America, Queen doesn't have the same cache as The Who, Zeppelin, Stones, Beatles, Van Halen, etc. Unfortunately, over here they're regarded in the same group as bands like ELO, stars but not superstars of rock. Queen basically had their greatest creative period from '73-'77 from a ROCK RADIO perspective. After that, they didn't have a lot of songs that found their way onto the playlists where they would find their most faithful listeners. So if you knew Queen as a rock band, you'd see them almost 30 years removed from their peak, with a new singer, and playing a lot of songs you'd never heard. Not too appealing. They should have played smaller venues for a first tour. Ultimately, I think the blame falls on band management, you have to know your market. |
| Crazy LittleThing 22.03.2006 13:00 |
They have a PR team? |
| zone 22.03.2006 13:52 |
BHM 0271 you should have thrown in Journey and REO Speedwagon so I would drive my car off a cliff. |
| zone 22.03.2006 14:04 |
I think Canada is a different market than the U.S.to bad they don't do a Canadian tour.I think a Canadian tour might do pretty good.We Canucks love to be entertained ,maybe through in a hockey game at the end of the concert. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 22.03.2006 14:08 |
zone, you seem too kind so I kept those names off the list! |
| Delilah 22.03.2006 14:14 |
BHM, the Beatles, the Who and the Stones were essentially the pioneers of rock and of course their status may be construed to be a higher level but putting Queen in a grouping with ELO, even Van Halen, is ridiculous. I'm not sure what your background is but Queen is every bit as instrumental in the rock world as any of the other dinosaurs of rock mentioned above. |
| Erin 22.03.2006 14:23 |
Whoa! Delilah posted something! ;-) |
| Kilpat1 22.03.2006 14:23 |
Ticket prices definately hurt. For instance Billy joel is only charging $89 for his top ticket for the MSG shows. he sold out 12 shows. If they were $200 a tick he would of played half the dates. Its no promotion + ticket prices which hurt the tour! |
| Boy Thomas Raker 22.03.2006 14:36 |
I agree with everything you said Delilah. What I or you know about Queen is neither here nor there. That's why I cap locked ROCK RADIO. The diehards in North America probably got on board at SHA or ANATO. The average person knows Queen for their anthems, or AOBTD. I live in Toronto, and the local classic rock station plays maybe 10 Queen tracks compared to 30 or 40 AC/DC, Zep, Who, Stones. And Toronto is a big Queen city. Compare that to the southern US and Queen probably has the equivalent number of known songs as Styx, ELO, Kansas, Journey and REO Speedwagon. That's how I'm making the comparison, and those songs are 30 years old like the groups mentioned. I can't state that number is definitive as I don't live in thsoe markets, but Queen is not regarded the same in America as they are in the rest of the world or even Canada for that matter. |
| Delilah 22.03.2006 14:48 |
I don't agree with you BHM and I can't stand it when people downplay the importance of Queen in the music world. Perhaps you shouldn't speak in such general terms. Perhaps in the midwest of the U.S. or Timbucktoo (*sp?), Queen can be spoken in the same breath as Journey, but not where I come from (hey, I live in Toronto too). I still maintain that this tour has been hindered by lack of promotion and whether it's the band's doing or a disinterest from the media, it's hurt the ticket sales. It was good to see the full arena in Toronto though. When I walked into the Buffalo show, I couldn't believe the lack of tickets sold. Yeah Erin, I can post..... :) |
| jordanjo 22.03.2006 15:09 |
no they just need to fire Paul. |
| teleman 22.03.2006 15:18 |
A lot of good points have been made. For those saying Q+PR should not have done a North American tour and cutting down American fans: fuck off. Many of these fans have waited a long time to see a Queen related show. I shelled out a lot of money for the Toronto & Detroit shows. The promotion does make a difference. Last week my sister told her doctor I was going to see Q+PR. He called me up, very excited, to find out details. He goes to a lot of concerts and hadn't heard a thing. I saw one print advert in a small weekly paper. Every time I told someone I was seeing Q+PR they were shocked and interested. To think promotion plays no role in the poor attendance is ridiculous. Promotion is not the only factor. Toronto and Buffalo are practically neighbours. Why were there shows back to back in these 2 cities.(No offense Buffalo Queenies, you could have stayed at my house) There are a lot of questions but I am sure that with better planning we would be looking at the North American tour as a success. For me it is a success because I finally got to see this tour. I followed news of every show last year. I bought ROTC on CD & DVD. Now I've had the pleasure of being in the audience. I can say there is nothing wrong with the North American fans. I hope they'll focus on the good things and learn from the rest. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 22.03.2006 15:24 |
Well, Delilah, first off, I think Queen is the greatest band ever so I'm not a hater. Having said that, they were a rock band when they started. America is a meat and potatoes rock market for the most part. Assuming most people got into the band in '75, diehards would be into ANATO, ADATR, Jazz during their rock stage. I think they changed from a rock and roll first band, to a pop/rock band with the Game. I have friends who hated the Game because of the synth and disco flirtation on AOBTD. They bailed when Hot Space came out, and until Innuendo, there wasn't a lot for fans to chew on here. Queen stopped being a rock band in a lot of people's eyes in 1982. Again, in relation to this thread, I'm stating that fans in these markets where QPR are playing, are seeing a band whose music they here is the equivalent in number of hits and similar career span to the bands I've mentioned. For me, it's the Beatles and Queen as 1 and 1A. To suggest that REO Speedwagon and Journey and Van Halen are in their league would be ludicrous. To suggest that those bands aren't as popular, if not moreso than Queen in the US would be equally ludicrous. |
| KillerQueen840 22.03.2006 15:47 |
I saw two articles in the newspaper about the tour over a period of probably two or three months inbetween. I saw two commercials on tv for them. One, at six in the morning (only because I just happened to have been checking the news to see if school was cancelled-it was!) and the other at 11:30 PM. Not exactly a good choice of times if you ask me... But Worcester did seem fairly full so maybe they didn't need it here. But still, I bet a little more advertising would've gone a long way. |
| latina 22.03.2006 16:04 |
jordanjo wrote: no they just need to fire Paul.That's it!! Replace Rodgers by someone with a sense of hearing and some charism. Furthermore change a little bit the setlist Discard rap-/pop-/Bad Company-songs and add more rock stuff Then I'd travel from Europe to the USA, answer some stupid questions at the arrival there and finally, after singing The Star Spangled Banner, I'd be in front of the catwalk adoring Brian May! |
| Mr. Scully 23.03.2006 02:56 |
Erin is right about the general admission tickets. If a venue is seating-only (and most American venues are), it can't be compared to European venues where half of the audience stand around the catwalk. It makes a HUGE difference. I have attended some 20-30 rock concerts in the past two years and only twice I had a seating tickets - and these were the gigs that I enjoyed the least. On a rock gig you have to STAND unless you're handicapped or tired or injured or old or something like that! I also understand the point about America having hundreds gigs of famous rock acts every week - no wonder people are not excited when some Queen arrive. But "Queen haven't been here since 1982" or "I haven't heard anything on the radio" is not an excuse! It only shows that most Americans are NOT interested in Queen. Queen were big on the American market from ~1977 to 1980 and this era is gone. |
| YourValentine 23.03.2006 06:25 |
Ticket prices must have an effect. 200$ for a ticket is just ridiculously overpriced. It's Rock'n Roll and should be for everyone and not only rich people. We as fans do not need to have sleepless nights over the financial gain of the tour, after all people here on the boards are the ones who pay that money. Queen did have a good sound in Europe and tickets were not that expensive. If more promotion is needed in the USA to sell out concerts, it's safe to say the promoters did not do their job. Last year in Europe the concerts sold so fast that dates were added but they must have noticed that the situation is different in the USA. When venues are half empty it's not nice for the band and not for the fans who attend. Therefore, we all must hope that they learn the lesson as the tour progresses and just do more local promotion. |
| PieterMC 23.03.2006 06:44 |
I think many people forget that it's not just Queen + PR that are playing to venues that are not full. This is happening to many bands in the US. Yes there are certain acts such as Elton John who will sell out wherever they go, but many bands cannot sell out tours anymore. High tickets prices and the market being flooded are more than likely to blame. Some areas will say major acts every week. You can't afford to go to them all. |
| S@turn 23.03.2006 09:03 |
Resumed I think that the lack of promotion is not the thing that keeps people away from concerts. Fans (die hards, fanatics) know when their bands play and they are willing to pay the over-prized tickets for it What consequently means that you have to make choices, but that is the same as it was in my younger years, when I found the tickets as well expensive enough Concerts are expensive, not many groups (used to) earn profits with it and that's okay Considering the history no one should be surprised that the shows in the US and Canada are not all soled out. If I am well informed tonight (detroit?) is soled out. And of course it is nicer to have a soled out house for the performers and audience as well (except when your seat is close to the exit door, also far away from where it happens I guess that we, the fans (queenzoners are what that concerns the elite force of queen), must be glad if we were able to see them, once, twice, ten times My experience is that I enjoyed the (2) shows very much, felt privileged And I do not understand exactly why people do complain about this kind of things that are in fact not important, I should not mind seeing them in a not soled out house, in fact I did see queen in a not soled out house. But that was Queen! Loong ago (I start to get 'grandpa stories', I need to keep an eye on my kids I guess) :):):):) |
| tcg 23.03.2006 09:18 |
Detroit does not appear to have any main floor or lower bowl left. They seem to have only upper bowl available row 8 out of 16. This is good. |
| zone 23.03.2006 16:24 |
Detroit rock city. |
| TruePar 23.03.2006 18:58 |
In Vancouver, the highest priced tickets were $115 Canadian ($100 US). So it was slightly lower that US dates. As for promotion, the only bands I see promoted are bands like U2, Coldplay, Rolling Stones etc..etc.. The rest of the bands get little or no promotion. Though, there were a few articles in the papers about Queen. Infact, they rated the upcoming Queen concert in the top 10 concerts to look forward to in 2006. |
| goinback 23.03.2006 20:14 |
I had no idea until recently that the *real* ticket prices for the front sections (even row 19 etc.) are $200 apiece straight from Ticketmaster (at least for Anaheim, because I've seen three of those tickets firsthand). I thought only the scalpers sold tickets that high. I don't see why the scalpers are made out as the enemies anymore.... |
| AmeriQueen 24.03.2006 02:30 |
Presentation is kicking their ass! It's like this, let's analyze two scenarios: Queen + Paul Rodgers, the tour/band we know. Royal Blues, A supergroup crossing of Queen and PR, just as we have now, but with a supergroup name(I through that one out there). Now, what do we have? The first tells you what the show is going to be, a merger of what's left of Queen with a legendary vocalist fronting them. The second scenario by definition presents them with a new identity, a super grooup title to this merger. It doesn't advertise that they will be doing anything new, the name merely labels them individually. The irony here is tha the 1st name get's the word out better, and it more accurately sales the audience on what to expect. The 2nd does neither as well, but it greatly enhances their respect. Suddenly it's not an atempt to replace the irreplaceable, suddenly it's a new creative venture. You don't see Velvet Revolver being called Guns'N Roses + Scott(? Stone Temple guy). Why it is the way it is, is because they made no plans beyond the tour, therefore it is a Queen show with some PR tunes and vocals. Ultimately the problem isn't with their team, or at least not entirely. Ultimately the problem is more American ignorance. All I speak with repeat the same statement, "It ain't Queen without Freddie." While this is true, they don't see it as anyless than absolute because Americans don't know Brian May and Roger Taylor by name. They don't recognize the amount of their musical contribution. The UK does which is why Brian and Roger get all the cheers and fan worship, more even than Paul. It's too bad because with the shitty USA grosses, I doubt Queen will ever cross the Atlantic for our ungrateful asses again. I'm just so glad that I got to catch them in L.A. last October and that I will catch them in San Diego in just over a week. The show will be great, and so was L.A., but in closing what was special to me was that before those shows I saw them In Birmingham, UK which for me was seeing Queen with the greatest of Queen fans. That was the perfect way to start! |
| Megamike The GREAT 24.03.2006 02:56 |
My first concert was Queen back in 1980, yeah, they ROCKED!!! I left that show with an addiction that lasted the better part of 25 years... and then I took a comment Brian made just a little too personally and almost literly dumped them.. I sold a LOT of my rare stuff, as it really didnt matter to me anymore, but now as the meds are kicking in I am beginning to realize that I might have made a mistake, so when my friend offered me a chance to go see them in Detroit I couldnt pass it up, yeah my seats suck in comparison to where I saw them first time, but hey.. at least I will have seen Brian and Roger one last time, and for those of you who may have forgotten, Paul Rodgers is fairly loved over here in the States already for his Bad Company stuff.. so, this makes perfect sense to tour with Queen under the name Queen + Paul Rodgers.. as far as the promotion, yeah it REALLY sucks.. I have not seen ONE ad for them, and since I do not listen to the radio I wouldnt know about that media, but the newspaper havent really made much about it.. besides the Flint Journal in which was mentioned on Brianmay.com.. whoo hoo... So regardless if Detroit is a sell out or not, regardless if Queen ever come back to the states or not the bottom line is THEY ARE HERE NOW and I am going.. I dont care about Joe Schmoo who isnt going, I have a friend of mine who claimed to be bigger than I was as a fan, he said he couldnt make it.. my response.. YOUR LOSS.. WE WILL ROCK DETROIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Gecko 24.03.2006 05:37 |
i dont think the pub. in cleveland was all that bad, there were write ups in the paper, WNCX promoted the show constently,tv had prime time spots for the concert and i even saw the queen north american tour promo during the superbowl pre-game.... to be honest, i heard more about this show than the coldplay concert a few nights earlier. you know, maybe if the band would show more interest in its fans , like the fans show for the band, a do a quick meet and greet, offer backstage passes through radio contest and VIP packages (i hear the cookies and backstage tours that were givin on some VIP packages were totally worth the $1000.00 that was paid for them) , do something at the R+R HOF, radio interviews ect, maybe than there would be more interest if the fans have a chance to meet them for 5 min to tell them "than you for 30 years of memories while getting a scribble on their $25.00 tour book" everyone says..it wont happen, they are icons, but there are bands that promote themselves to their fans in a personal way with a handshake and a picture almost everytime they come to cleveland, be it the darkness, bon jovi, poison, or even more on queens icon level..alice cooper. how hard is it to give a few fans 5 min of something to remember. but this is a band who cares enough about its fans that for 20+ plus years of european conventions and 5-6 years of USA conventions, they managed to only grace its fans with a short video presentation "thank you for comming, enjoy yourselves, and sorry we couldnt make it,we have been so busy from 1993-2005, but thank you for 30+ plus years of solid dedication"...well, THANK YOU Queen for 20+ years of video greetings(well, atleast Jackey can tell the band members that we had a good time celebrating THEM during the convention dedicated to them" even a money hungry band like KISS will manage to give its fans a "personal touch" during their conventions, tossing out a few has been members to its hungry fans. maybe its not all the PR teams fault promoting the band...maybe the band should promote themselves to their fans better |
| onevsion 24.03.2006 06:47 |
wegotit wrote:Totally agree with you !Mr. Scully wrote: Do the Americans have to be spoon fed? The European tour was sold out before the tour was even announced. It's not really about promotion (which indeed IS bad), it's mainly about fans. If a 15-million city can't find 10000 Queen fans, then Queen should tour somewhere else! Queen should tour Europe, Japan or South America. Not USA. In USA they will earn much more money than anywhere else (high ticket prices, a lot of sold merchandise) - but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola.Martin you are more than right! and THIS was also the reason why Queen did not tour the States in 1984, 1985 or 1986 when a certain Freddie Mercury was still around! |
| Boy Thomas Raker 24.03.2006 09:11 |
Ducksoup wrote:The only problem with this approach is that you are blaming the American city for the fact that Queen has been invisible for roughly a quarter of a century. Queen's last meaningful work in the US was The Game. It's no exaggeration to say that, for a lot of North American's, Queen ended with Hot Space. Their Capitol albums were ignored, they didn't tour, Innuendo gave them a little spark then Freddie died. So it's hard to blame American and Canadian audiences for not supporting a band that may not have been worthy of any support.wegotit wrote:Totally agree with you !Mr. Scully wrote: Do the Americans have to be spoon fed? The European tour was sold out before the tour was even announced. It's not really about promotion (which indeed IS bad), it's mainly about fans. If a 15-million city can't find 10000 Queen fans, then Queen should tour somewhere else! Queen should tour Europe, Japan or South America. Not USA. In USA they will earn much more money than anywhere else (high ticket prices, a lot of sold merchandise) - but anywhere else they will have packed halls with loyal fans who will dance and enjoy every minute of the gig instead of sitting on a fat ass, eating pop corn and drinking cola.Martin you are more than right! and THIS was also the reason why Queen did not tour the States in 1984, 1985 or 1986 when a certain Freddie Mercury was still around! |
| scallyuk 24.03.2006 11:47 |
I think there's some overreaction here on the fans part and diffeent views on what measures success. Brian and Roger have frequently said they don't need the money so they don't really need to care about how big their cut of mechandise is. They aren't U2 and they don't have a message to get across so they don't need to worry about as many people as possible getting to see them. The Band have negotiated a fixed fee for the tour - they get it even if no-one turns up. As you can tell from their faces at the moment they're doing it because it's a BLAST. If it stops being fun they'll do something else like sit at home and count the money they already have. If you don't like watching a band play to a half full venue don't come to any of the pubs I frequent. :) Neil |
| Donna13 24.03.2006 11:55 |
Gecko wrote: there are bands that promote themselves to their fans in a personal way with a handshake and a picture almost everytime they come to cleveland, be it the darkness, bon jovi, poison, or even more on queens icon level..alice cooper. how hard is it to give a few fans 5 min of something to remember. maybe its not all the PR teams fault promoting the band...maybe the band should promote themselves to their fans betterHow can you say this when Brian has been writing almost every day on his website and answering thousands of letters? I think the meet and greet thing works when you are not as popular but when you get to a certain level it becomes a nightmare. When they first became popular in the 70's they had a few dangerous situations with fans grabbing at Freddie's clothing and jewelry. I think it was similar to what the Beatles experienced. After that they were more careful and perhaps that has now become a habit. John's avoidance of all crowds now must be a clue to you about how much they have had to endure in the past. |
| Whatinthewhatthe? 24.03.2006 19:21 |
Think of this: on the current US tour, there's a lot of word of mouth as well as scant promotion by such a sorry record label as Hollywood. Queen were still under the WEA (Warner-Elektra-Atlantic) banner at the time of the last tour in 1982, Elektra was still their label. They did a lot of promotion for that tour, if people recall. However, when they went to Capitol Records, there wasn't a US tour, though being the home of the Beatles for so long, that label would have done a major assault on the US for a supporting tour (Radio Ga Ga and I Want To Break Free were the big singles off the album). Witness the nice treatment for the picture sleeves on the 45s! Now, if Hollywood would have adapted the same strategy (with emphasis on Queen's return to the stage, even though with a different lead singer), you would have seen more seats sold, more radio station giveaways, maybe an in-store appearance or two at Tower Records in major US cities. We can always wonder why Hollywood didn't consider Q + PR a major event. My God, Queen used to sell out stadiums. They could have done so again, but due to lack of a good publicist, we didn't see that, and that makes me wonder!! |
| Mr. Scully 28.03.2006 03:11 |
Donna13 wrote:Brian answers letters that praise him - and that's a big difference. I must have sent him 10 letters in the past 5 years and got 1 reply - when I sent him a photo on which he looked good.Gecko wrote: there are bands that promote themselves to their fans in a personal way with a handshake and a picture almost everytime they come to cleveland, be it the darkness, bon jovi, poison, or even more on queens icon level..alice cooper. how hard is it to give a few fans 5 min of something to remember. maybe its not all the PR teams fault promoting the band...maybe the band should promote themselves to their fans betterHow can you say this when Brian has been writing almost every day on his website and answering thousands of letters? I think the meet and greet thing works when you are not as popular but when you get to a certain level it becomes a nightmare. When they first became popular in the 70's they had a few dangerous situations with fans grabbing at Freddie's clothing and jewelry. I think it was similar to what the Beatles experienced. After that they were more careful and perhaps that has now become a habit. John's avoidance of all crowds now must be a clue to you about how much they have had to endure in the past. Truth is that Queen are totally ignoring any critical voices. They're hidden in their nutshell, praising themselves. Not a chance for a meet'n'greet. Very little chance for a reply (Brian only). Shitty CD and DVD re-re-re-releases (who cares about fans?). Fan club that is virtually dead. Expensive amateur-looking merchandise. Etc. I can compare to Deep Purple - who are currently probably as big as Queen. My friend is a fan of DP. He emailed a band member for a backstage pass - he got it. He emailed another member for a signed photo - got it. Incredible. Meet'n'greet? Of course, after every concert. Etc. etc. I don't complain - I love Queen because they still rock and I absolutely love the current tour (if we don't count the constant setlist). But Queen have a lot to improve - but they don't care. The good days are over. |
| Erin 28.03.2006 08:04 |
The fan club thing bothers me too. It's hard to believe that a band as HUGE as Queen has a fan club that is barely clinging to life. I can't say anything negative about the soapbox, though. I think it's awesome that you can email Brian directly..or somewhat directly. I got my first reply regarding a picture while we where on the trip, and although it was short and sweet, I loved knowing that Brian actually saw the pics we took. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 28.03.2006 09:18 |
"...but Queen have a lot to improve - but they don't care. The good days are over." Amen Mr. Scully. Brian is particularly thin skinned about any criticism. If he gets a review that praises them, great. If not, the critic knows nothing. I once sent him a question if whether any criticism is valid, no reply. I remember how hurt Brian was at the time of Starfleet when Eric Clapton said that neither Eddie Van Halen or Brian knew anything about how to play the blues. Yet he savaged the second album of Paul Butterfield Blues Band in an interview for Guitar for the Practicing Musician as the same time. Selective hearing, same way he "heard" that people thought that there were tapes used for FBG on the current tour. He answered that with an assertive "no." Yet if he heard that, he surely had to have heard about the use of pre-recorded rhythm tracks for TATDOOL. He sure didn't answer them. |
| Donna13 28.03.2006 16:55 |