Normally I'm just a lurker here, but now I've stumbled upon something fishy and I'd like to hear some expert opinions.
You see, last week I bought the 12" vinyl single of Liar by The Cross. One would expect a 15 year old record to show some tear and wear, but this one looks like it came rolling off the presses only yesterday. Record and sleeve are in a stunning mint condition. Even the inside of the sleeve does not show yellowing.
I have learnt over the years that if something seems too good to be true, especially in Queen-land, it usually isn't ;-) However, for only 24 dollars I was willing to take the chance to complete my Liar trio, so I bought it. And now I'm wondering: could this be a pirate, a counterfeit? Could anybody who owns this record (and who knows that their copy is an original) please be so kind to check their catalogue and matrix numbers and compare them with mine? Mine are:
catalogue: 1C 060 14 7516 6
matrix side A: 1475166-A2
matrix side B: 1475166-B2
Thanks a lot!!!
Did you buy it on eBay?
I remember that some weeks ago I saw the Cross/Liar 12" on eBay and wanted to buy it.
The price indeed was not really high.
Stupid me forgot to bid on it, and later I saw that the record was sold for not really much.
To my great surprise the same seller immediately put another Cros/Liar 12" record on eBay for the same not-too-high price.
This made me suspicious, so I didn't bid on it anymore, but I kept following it in my watch-list.
If I remember well the seller put a third Cross/Liar 12" on eBay when the second was sold, but to be honest I can't remember that exactly anymore.
Unfortunately I don't know his eBay-name anymore, but maybe it's the same seller that you mean?
@ Serry: thanks for confirming the catalogue number!
@ JeroenG: yes, I did buy it on eBay, I think the seller was from Germany. I just bid the starting bid of 24 dollars and then forgot about it, until I got a message from eBay saying that I had won the auction. Given the fact that the record looks brand new, that no-one else bid on it, and that the starting bid was so low, I got suspicious as well. But then again, to my knowledge there are no Liar 12" counterfeits, so either this is a new counterfeit or it simply was a great bargain :-)
I checked the matrix numbers with someone who owns an original copy (Rinus Walstijn). And those match as well! Also, according to him, there are no known pirate pressings of this record. Looks like I made quite a deal then ;-)
I'm here again on this topic.
I have checked eBay and the same seller is selling a couple of 'Liar' 12inch-es again.
One went out last week and one I am watching right this moment.
Although I would love to think that it is the real thing, I have my doubts because of a few reasons:
1) This record is normally so rare. How come this seller has quite some copies to sell from time to time, and all in perfect condition?
2) He has no other Cross/Mercury/May/Taylor/etc for sale, only this Liar 12inch, and always more than one copy in a row.
3) I checked his eBay Store and a lot of other Queen records that he sells ARE bootlegs.
4) I checked his feedback and looked around what items were sold in the past. It looks like quite some records from the past are bootlegs too. Some buyers also say this in their feedback (like: "good record, bad sound quality, but what else can you expect from a bootleg")
Ofcourse I can only relate to Queen items that he is selling (except when a buyer tells it is a bootleg in his feedback), because I don't know very much about record of other artists.
And ofcourse I know that this doesn't has to say anything.... but it explains my doubts...
Any comments by others maybe?
Is it more likely that a shop closes down and someone finds a box of stock of some obscure 12"
Having access to a pressing plant, a bootlegger would choose an obscure 12" to bootleg?
I'm not judging it, but I think the first option is statistically more likely.
I understand what you're saying, first option is more likely than then second one.
I was only explaining my doubt, hoping that others might have something to add... Which you did now. Thanks for that.
And BTW, if it IS a bootleg which is made so good that NO ONE can see the difference AND the price is low... I don't really care and would love to have it...
I own this copy that you are talking about. I think I got it from the same seller as you. To me it looks 100% genuine. The sleeve is really glossy and smooth. I hope its not a bootleg tho but if it is its a damn good one tho
Here I am again.
I have bought it from the eBay seller, and got the record yesterday.
It really looks very nice, cover is as new and glossy.
Now back on the issue of how to find out if your copy is a pirate pressing or not.
As I don't have the original Liar 12", I compared to mu Power To Love 7"/12"/cdsingle and my Liar 7"/cdsingle.
I noticed a few things on my pirate copy:
- it seems to me that the colours are a tiny little bit less sharp on the pirate sleeve and pirate label. This goes even more (although still a little) for the written characters.
- I noticed a small white border at the right of the front sleeve. This could be bad cutting, but I think it would have looked different on an original copy.
- on the bottomside and upside of the sleeve (you know, the very smal one) you can see it's black with little white tears all over. These tears seem to be printed on the sleeve, as I can't feel them with my finger. Could it be these tears were on the original sleeve that was used for copy this pirate sleeve?
- It looks to me (but I could be wrong) that there is a part of the front sleeve were you can notice a lighter colour due to dust or something (can't explain it better), but there is no dust on it. Could it be again that there was a little dust on the original sleeve that was used for copy this pirate sleeve?
It is on the black part of Clayton's jacket nearby the leg of Josh.
I own 2 editions.
The first one has the cat number on dead wax that ends with A-1 (on A side) and B-1 (on B side).
This is 100% original.
The re-issue is as described in this topic.
What is said about this 2nd edition is all true.
Little writings are not so beautiful like on 1st release.
I don't know this 2nd issue is fake or not, but I think it is fake!
What is the reason now to re-issue this single that did not sell so many copies in August 1990?
If was it so rare, why on eBay do they sell it at 30 euro at most?
I hope this helps!!
Best Regards to you all,