Haystacks Calhoun 02.12.2005 16:30 |
Either quit whining, get off of her ass and make something out of her life, or be banned from Queenzone.... It is pretty simple, really. If she has the time to post her "woe is me" rants here, she should have enough time to find a decent job. If she cannot afford to live in her current area, hmmmmm, perhaps that is something that she should have PLANNED for 10 years ago, and made a move to an affordable area while she had means to do so. This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake. If you cannot make it here, where the fuck do you expect to go and make it??? Her shit has grown stale. |
Sergei. 02.12.2005 16:49 |
And YOU need a hug, mister grumpy pants. |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 16:50 |
Sorry Haystacks, And I guess I may be picking you up wrong here, (in that case I apologise in advance), but America is NOT the only 'good' country in the world - which is something Americans seem to forget. Not all the eggs in your country have two yolks, and as poor Fievel finds out, there are indeed CATS over there too! Now whilst I agree that the West is more privileged than the third world, I would not swap living in Scotland for living in the US for any price - as I believe we enjoy a greater quality of life. Regardless, I do not wish to turn this into a US Vs. the rest of the world, or indeed an anti-American thread, but I find comments like "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", both arrogant an insulting, as it implies that the US suffers from NO socio-political or environmental problems - and that is definitely NOT the case. Perhaps the US can rightly 'claim' to be the world's 'wealthiest' economy (while paradoxically simultaneously holding down the world’s greatest debt), but pull off that veneered facade, and you will find some of the greatest poverty related problems in the WORLD, so please do not use this 'American dream' fantasy to convince me that Arlene's problems are all in her head. Perhaps her problems are, but that is still no excuse to hide the fact that she, and millions like her suffer in the underbelly of US society, and for them, the US dream is nothing more than a shattered illusion. "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", is after all, not just some sort of emblem for a positive Utopia. |
flash00. 02.12.2005 16:51 |
hmmm... charitable guy, |
Maruga 02.12.2005 17:12 |
USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers. |
flash00. 02.12.2005 17:14 |
you tell em maruga :) |
bitesthedust 02.12.2005 17:20 |
I appreciate it must be extremely hard for her and I do sympathise, Arlene if you read this. I myself spent nearly 2 and a half years looking for permanent employment and it was very frustrating. I can't relate to the rest of her problems but I do hope she finds a solution to them all. |
Haystacks Calhoun 02.12.2005 17:31 |
Nah, on a 15 page topic, with numerous people giving her advice on what to do, how to help..... It is hysterical that the bashers are going after ME? Calling the President a Killer? I realize that Bush Bashing has become an Olympic event over the past year, but really, folks... Lets face facts. Arlene is in the situation because of the choices that SHE, and SHE ALONE, has made over the course of her adult life. I said before, you will find that in America, a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is? I took a crappy job with a good, family owned company 9 1/2 years ago. Why? Because the best way to make it in Middle Class America is to find a job, and STAY THERE!!! The professional students simply do not see it that way. For whatever reason, they bounce from job to job, school to school... Now, I make a good living, and have a job I love with people that I consider my friends signing my paycheck. Now, about the America bashing...what gives there? All I simply meant that if an intelligent girl like Arlene can't seem to make it in this country, I don't know what anyone can do for her..... |
Erin 02.12.2005 17:42 |
I'm rather surprised by the anti-American responses here. |
Maruga 02.12.2005 17:43 |
As a Social Worker, the only thing i have to say is: we all can help Arlene give her some advises, but the only person who can fix the problem is Arlene. I hate Bush and his fuckin' foreign politics. He should worry about how to fix the lots of problems on is country (like racism, poverty, etc.). And i'm still thinking he is a KILLER. Cheers. |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 17:45 |
Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Now, about the America bashing...what gives there? All I simply meant that if an intelligent girl like Arlene can't seem to make it in this country, I don't know what anyone can do for her.....No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting. As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising. |
flash00. 02.12.2005 17:45 |
Barry © wrote: It's pretty obvious she really is on the bones of her arse, I can't comment on what it is like in America as I have never been there yet. Arlene seems like she has all her marbles and if she has no family or friends who else can she turn to but us at Queenzone if all else is failing. Things must be getting more desperate for her by the hour. What she doesn't need right now is a topic asking for her banning. I'd say the same if it was any other member too.*bump* well put!!! |
Lester Burnham 02.12.2005 17:54 |
I think, in fairness to Haystacks, he didn't mean that America was the greatest country in the world, but that... hmm, it's difficult to explain on the Internet. I think it was more of a way of saying that getting a job in America is fairly easy, and that if a 17 year old can do it, then anyone can do it, not "God bless America, land of the free, greatest country in the world, and if you don't like it we'll declare war on you!" I think it was more self-deprecating than arrogant. |
Erin 02.12.2005 17:55 |
John S Stuart wrote: As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising.I don't think Haystacks meant it to be in the slightest, though. All he was trying to say, I believe, is that there is help out there and job opportunities, etc.. |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 18:00 |
John S Stuart wrote:The connoted underlying meaning?? Based on the surrounding context from which this quote was pulled, I think its readily apparent that by that he meant that many jobs and opportunities are available in the U.S. You find this "insulting and patronising"? Perhaps you should dust those chips off your shoulders. There is no need bashing someone's homeland with pseudostatitics simply due to your misinterpretation of their statement.Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Now, about the America bashing...what gives there? All I simply meant that if an intelligent girl like Arlene can't seem to make it in this country, I don't know what anyone can do for her.....No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting. As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising. |
Erin 02.12.2005 18:02 |
Barry © wrote: I have nothing against America, I hope to visit there one day for a holiday. :-)Spring '06 is a good time to visit..;-) |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 18:04 |
Erin wrote:Please let's not turn this into country bashing, but this is exactly what I meant, in that there is "help out there and job opportunities", in MOST (at least Western countrys) and NOT just in the US. However, that does NOT prevent some 'decent' people from falling between the cracks.John S Stuart wrote: As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising.I don't think Haystacks meant it to be in the slightest, though. All he was trying to say, I believe, is that there is help out there and job opportunities, etc.. |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 18:05 |
jcrawford79 wrote:Wait a minute. I am on Record as saying:John S Stuart wrote:The connoted underlying meaning?? Based on the surrounding context from which this quote was pulled, I think its readily apparent that by that he meant that many jobs and opportunities are available in the U.S. You find this "insulting and patronising"? Perhaps you should dust those chips off your shoulders. There is no need bashing someone's homeland with pseudostatitics simply due to your misinterpretation of their statement.Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Now, about the America bashing...what gives there? All I simply meant that if an intelligent girl like Arlene can't seem to make it in this country, I don't know what anyone can do for her.....No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting. As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising. "Sorry Haystacks... And I guess I may be picking you up wrong here, (in that case I apologise in advance), but America is NOT the only 'good' country in the world... Please let's not turn this into country bashing". and; "No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting". Furthermore, I stand by those statements. NO American bashing on my part. This is the internet after all, and we do not have the non-verbal cues to deduce the subtlety of meaning, but what I took from Haystack's message was "This can not happen in God's wonderful country of opportunity - and therefore, it is the individual's own fault". If I read this incorrectly, then perhaps he could have written it better, as after all, that is what the gist of his thoughts are, "It's all Arlene's fault and not our politcal systems". I still feel that to say - this line of reasoning is NOT automatically true, and that sometimes ideologies CAN and DO fail individuals, (just because this is happening in the US does not automatically make it Arlene's fault), and that sir, I see as neither a chip - nor an accusation. IT is NOT anti- American to say that it is a BAD system whereby your country will not employ one of its subject's because of poor credit ratings, and I am sorry that you take it so personally, but frankly, if you refuse to see the negative sides of your own political system, then that does not make me the anti-Bush bogeyman. |
Erin 02.12.2005 18:09 |
THIS IS AMERICA...and we have no general admission for the Queen shows..*sigh* And, no free health care is a bitch, as well..;-) |
Mr.Jingles 02.12.2005 18:12 |
I am sick and tired of people who think that all Americans are selfish, fat, greedy, arrogant right wing nuts. |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 18:29 |
John S Stuart wrote:To deny employment to folks with poor credit would constitute a "BAD system", as you say. However, this is not the case. This may be Arlene's case, but this is not my case nor the case of the rest of the U.S.jcrawford79 wrote:Wait a minute. I am on Record as saying: "Sorry Haystacks... And I guess I may be picking you up wrong here, (in that case I apologise in advance), but America is NOT the only 'good' country in the world... Please let's not turn this into country bashing". and; "No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting". Furthermore, I stand by those statements. NO American bashing on my part. This is the internet after all, and we do not have the non-verbal cues to deduce the subtlety of meaning, but what I took from Haystack's message was "This can not happen in God's wonderful country of opportunity - and therefore, it is the individual's own fault". If I read this incorrectly, then perhaps he could have written it better, as after all, that is what the gist of his thoughts are, "It's all Arlene's fault and not our politcal systems". I still feel that to say - this line of reasoning is NOT automatically true, and that sometimes ideologies CAN and DO fail individuals, (just because this is happening in the US does not automatically make it Arlene's fault), and that sir, I see as neither a chip - nor an accusation. IT is NOT anti- American to say that it is a BAD system whereby your country will not employ one of its subject's because of poor credit ratings, and I am sorry that you take it so personally, but frankly, if you refuse to see the negative sides of your own political system, then that does not make me the anti-Bush bogeyman.John S Stuart wrote:The connoted underlying meaning?? Based on the surrounding context from which this quote was pulled, I think its readily apparent that by that he meant that many jobs and opportunities are available in the U.S. You find this "insulting and patronising"? Perhaps you should dust those chips off your shoulders. There is no need bashing someone's homeland with pseudostatitics simply due to your misinterpretation of their statement.Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Now, about the America bashing...what gives there? All I simply meant that if an intelligent girl like Arlene can't seem to make it in this country, I don't know what anyone can do for her.....No American bashing on my part Mr.Calhoun/Erin. I just pointed out that your society (like my own - but for different reasons) is NOT perfect. It was not meant to be given (or taken) as an insulting. As a non-US resident, as I said above, I find the idea that "This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake", (and all the connoted underlying meaning) is both insulting and patronising. |
Music Man 02.12.2005 18:29 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA.Ouch, Maruga. Ouch. Anyway, I think the reasoning behind calling ourselves America, is because we are the only country in the world who has the word "America" in their name. Just a thought, though. It's like saying "What!? You go to the University of California!? YOU DO NOT GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. UC includes Santa Cruz, Los Angeles, and Davis! And Berkeley is the worst college in the world!" <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not.Who gave it the name of the best country in the world, anyway? I thought that was already taken by Italy, because I think we can all agree, you can get some pretty delicious food there. Anyway, I'm sure President Bush doesn't have the testicular fortitude to supply the arrogance or willpower to be an asshole, nor has he been charged for Murder or Manslaughter, yet. So I think we can cool down, here. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now.Welfare...that thing that underpriveleged persons have learned to leech off of. Eh, I won't get into that. In any case, I think war was invented a long time ago, before the existence of our country. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about.I'm a citizen of the United States of America, and I know what I'm talking about. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.Yes, just pick some random guy to blame for one's shortcomings. Always a good decision. In any case, I really do hope you find and maintain a decent job, or that you win the lottery. Good luck! |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 18:31 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: I am sick and tired of people who think that all Americans are selfish, fat, greedy, arrogant right wing nuts.I apologise for getting people's backs-up, and ofcourse what you say is true, and I agree with YOU, But what else do you expect when someone writes: Either quit whining, get off of her ass and make something out of her life, or be banned from Queenzone.... This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake... If you cannot make it here, where the fuck do you expect to go and make it???" Perhaps a little compassion or sympathy for our (your) fellow man would help redress the balance? Or is this to be seen as another criticism? |
Maruga 02.12.2005 18:37 |
Music Man wrote:As a Social Worker i keep my thoughts about USA...<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA.Ouch, Maruga. Ouch. Anyway, I think the reasoning behind calling ourselves America, is because we are the only country in the world who has the word "America" in their name. Just a thought, though. It's like saying "What!? You go to the University of California!? YOU DO NOT GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. UC includes Santa Cruz, Los Angeles, and Davis! And Berkeley is the worst college in the world!"<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not.Who gave it the name of the best country in the world, anyway? I thought that was already taken by Italy, because I think we can all agree, you can get some pretty delicious food there. Anyway, I'm sure President Bush doesn't have the testicular fortitude to supply the arrogance or willpower to be an asshole, nor has he been charged for Murder or Manslaughter, yet. So I think we can cool down, here.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now.Welfare...that thing that underpriveleged persons have learned to leech off of. Eh, I won't get into that. In any case, I think war was invented a long time ago, before the existence of our country.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about.I'm a citizen of the United States of America, and I know what I'm talking about.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.Yes, just pick some random guy to blame for one's shortcomings. Always a good decision. In any case, I really do hope you find and maintain a decent job, or that you win the lottery. Good luck! And i think Welfare is misunderstood in your country... the people you call "leech" is in tahta way 'cause they don't have opportunities to get job, and the government HAVE TO take care about their problems (the "leech" you mention). That's why i'm still thinking that Bush and all the people in USA should start to think about how improve jobs and finance all the people who live under welfare. And finally, when i'm calling all yankees are selfish, arrogants, killers, etc. is for the image that Bush show outside his country. Cheers. |
Erin 02.12.2005 18:44 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: And finally, when i'm calling all yankees are selfish, arrogants, killers, etc. is for the image that Bush show outside his country.We didn't all vote for him, ya know. |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 18:46 |
It seems I have hit a rock and a hard place - so to dig me out of this hole, let me just say this. My replies were NOT meant to be a choice between supporting Arlene on the one hand - at the expense of the USA on the other. Nevertheless, having a US citizen asking for her to banned from Queenzone, artificially polarises the argument. So support for Arlene somehow becomes skewed as Anti-American. Can I assure everyone that this is NOT the case, I am NOT Anti-US. But, I do not agree with Mr. Calhoun's view either, and if that appears to be bashing sacred US constitutions, then sorry, I will continue to do so. |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 18:46 |
John S Stuart wrote:I agree with you and I apologize for giving off the impression that you got my "back up." I was not upset, just pointing out what I thought was an unfair statement. So if I was misunderstood, I apologize. Anyway, I agree with you. To fault someone for the mistakes they made 10 years ago is apathetic. But I refuse to accept that all people in her community with poor credit are unemployed. Poor credit and unmanageable debt plague our nation, yet unemployment does not. Speaking from personal experience, I have NEVER had my credit checked for a job.Mr.Jingles wrote: I am sick and tired of people who think that all Americans are selfish, fat, greedy, arrogant right wing nuts.I apologise for getting people's backs-up, and ofcourse what you say is true, and I agree with YOU, But what else do you expect when someone writes: Either quit whining, get off of her ass and make something out of her life, or be banned from Queenzone.... This is AMERICA, for Christ's sake... If you cannot make it here, where the fuck do you expect to go and make it???" Perhaps a little compassion or sympathy for our (your) fellow man would help redress the balance? Or is this to be seen as another criticism? |
Erin 02.12.2005 18:53 |
John S Stuart wrote: if that appears to be bashing sacred US constitutions, then sorry, I will continue to do so.I'll bash the Second Amendment any day of the week. |
Mr.Jingles 02.12.2005 18:55 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote:And finally, when i'm calling all yankees are selfish, arrogants, killers, etc. is for the image that Bush show outside his country. Cheers.Well, Maruga. That's exactly what's wrong with you. By saying ALL you're generalizing EACH and EVERY SINGLE American (Estado Unidense, como quieras llamarle). Look, I was born in Colombia and I'm more than fed up with generalizations about people. I'm fuckin' fed up with people who think that all Colombians are violent, dishonest, and drug-dealers. Now that I'm an American citizen I also get fuckin' fed up with people who think that ALL Americans (as you said) are arrogant, selfish, and stupid. Look, say all the shit you want about Bush, but you should start realizing that NOT ALL Americans support Bush. Keep in mind that nearly half of the country didn't vote for him in 2004. Now his approval rating is 38%, which means that some of the Americans who voted for him are actually coming to their senses. Sadly too late, because we still have to undure 3 more years with that fuckin' idiot. |
Maruga 02.12.2005 19:05 |
Mr. Jingles: Let me write some words in spanish... Hasta cuándo Bush se va a meter en otros países y empieza a preocuparse de los pobres de su país en vez de inventar malditas guerras. Si tú eres colombiano, debes conocer perfectamente el "Plan Colombia". Y no sólo Bush se ha dedicado a intervenir, sino que en el pasado intervinieron en Chile, para sacar del gobierno a Allende, el "Plan Cóndor" (para exterminar a "la mugre comunista" de los países latinos), etc. And other words in english, for other people: I know not all the people vote for Bush, but you're all stupids for let him be president. On his first period he won maliciously to Gore. And you all the people shouldn't let him be president under deceits. |
Erin 02.12.2005 19:07 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I know not all the people vote for Bush, but you're all stupids for let him be president. On his first period he won maliciously to Gore. And you all the people shouldn't let him be president under deceits.And what exactly were us stupid people supposed to do about it, eh? |
Music Man 02.12.2005 19:15 |
Erin wrote:I have to agree with Erin. That was...not a very intelligent comment. Particularly for someone who pretends to understand our country.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I know not all the people vote for Bush, but you're all stupids for let him be president. On his first period he won maliciously to Gore. And you all the people shouldn't let him be president under deceits.And what exactly were us stupid people supposed to do about it, eh? |
Mr.Jingles 02.12.2005 19:16 |
I (partially) agree with you Maruga, but why blame all Americans for Bush. Imagine if I started bashing Marialvy because Chavez won in Venezuela. |
Music Man 02.12.2005 19:26 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: As a Social Worker i keep my thoughts about USA... And i think Welfare is misunderstood in your country... the people you call "leech" is in tahta way 'cause they don't have opportunities to get job, and the government HAVE TO take care about their problems (the "leech" you mention). That's why i'm still thinking that Bush and all the people in USA should start to think about how improve jobs and finance all the people who live under welfare. And finally, when i'm calling all yankees are selfish, arrogants, killers, etc. is for the image that Bush show outside his country. Cheers.People who leech have every opportunity to get a job. They simply do not because they do not have any incentives to get a job when the government is paying them to not have a job. They are leeches on the American taxpayer. I don't blame them; they have a perfectly good reason to NOT WORK for about the same amount of money they would receive BY WORKING. This simply proves that welfare is extremely flawed. Anyway, people are constantly thinking about ways to improve the economy. That is why we have an entire professional major devoted to ECONOMICS. The problem arises as to which method of economic amelioration is the best. This has been long debated for as long as anyone can remember. Poor economic plans are so significant that they could result in the prosperity or the demise of a country. No idiot would impose a radical, new economic strategy for just this reason. The fact is, we aren't doing too badly right now, no matter what anyone says. Now, on your final point: first of all, a large majority of YANKEES vote Blue. You probably don't know what that means, so I'll simplify it for you: it means they really don't like George W. Bush. Secondly, you are generalizing. This type of prejudice has been given several different names and varieties over the years, such as racism, sexism, discrimination, bigotry, etc. Anyone who is anyone knows one thing: this is bad. That means it isn't good. |
Lisser 02.12.2005 19:43 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote:Mr. Maruga,Music Man wrote:As a Social Worker i keep my thoughts about USA... And i think Welfare is misunderstood in your country... the people you call "leech" is in tahta way 'cause they don't have opportunities to get job, and the government HAVE TO take care about their problems (the "leech" you mention). That's why i'm still thinking that Bush and all the people in USA should start to think about how improve jobs and finance all the people who live under welfare. And finally, when i'm calling all yankees are selfish, arrogants, killers, etc. is for the image that Bush show outside his country. Cheers.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA.Ouch, Maruga. Ouch. Anyway, I think the reasoning behind calling ourselves America, is because we are the only country in the world who has the word "America" in their name. Just a thought, though. It's like saying "What!? You go to the University of California!? YOU DO NOT GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. UC includes Santa Cruz, Los Angeles, and Davis! And Berkeley is the worst college in the world!"<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not.Who gave it the name of the best country in the world, anyway? I thought that was already taken by Italy, because I think we can all agree, you can get some pretty delicious food there. Anyway, I'm sure President Bush doesn't have the testicular fortitude to supply the arrogance or willpower to be an asshole, nor has he been charged for Murder or Manslaughter, yet. So I think we can cool down, here.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now.Welfare...that thing that underpriveleged persons have learned to leech off of. Eh, I won't get into that. In any case, I think war was invented a long time ago, before the existence of our country.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about.I'm a citizen of the United States of America, and I know what I'm talking about.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.Yes, just pick some random guy to blame for one's shortcomings. Always a good decision. In any case, I really do hope you find and maintain a decent job, or that you win the lottery. Good luck! You are at the very least, disillusioned about the employment situation in the majority of the United States. I think some others might be too gaging by the reaction to Haystacks' comments. Correct me if I'm wrong Haystacks, but I think what you meant by your comment that JSS is disagreeing with is that there are jobs-a-plenty in this country. Employment options are every where in the United States and while I do know that some require credit checks or criminal background checks, not all do, infact the majority do not. The potential for a very rewarding existence, I can confirm, is out there for all Americans if they are willing to put in what they want out. I'm sure the same is true is very ma |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 20:01 |
Excellent post, Lisser. |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 20:01 |
Erin wrote:Sorry Erin, but what exactly is the second Amendment?John S Stuart wrote: if that appears to be bashing sacred US constitutions, then sorry, I will continue to do so.I'll bash the Second Amendment any day of the week. Is that the one "The right of the people to keep and bear arms"? |
Maruga 02.12.2005 20:08 |
I think everybody is against me now :) But i want to say the following: 1) Welfare State sometimes means that the government have to take care and protect the people who haves no job. It's true that sometimes the people who lives under welfare takes advantages of the state. And that's why the government have to promote and create jobs. I think if the government use (at lest) 2% of the budget. 2) I apologize if i insulte anyone of you by my thougths. I think you all yankees didn't accept Bush as a president when he made trap to win. 3) I'm still thinking that Bush have to take care about his own bussiness, and leave the rest of the world in peace. 4) I know its difficult find job, i'm trying to now... 5) Finally, i hope everybody here thinks that, it is not Arlene's fault not to have a job, is USA government, 'cause this government doesn't support those people... let me remember the Live 8 phrase: "Let's make poverty history", and that's what all the governments of the world should unite and make poverty history, not only in Africa, in all the countries of the world. |
jasen101 02.12.2005 20:15 |
I welcome Arlene to Canada...I just hope she can speak French....tu parles francais sweetie? We take all the American rejects and turn them into mounties. I promise Arlene she will have a Canadian Government job in no time! Now join me in our beautiful national anthem: "Oh Canada Our home and native land True patriot love In all our sons commands We hate George Bush and the right wing nuts that rule you by your balls In Canada We are trully free We like hockey and the French God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee!" |
Erin 02.12.2005 20:16 |
John S Stuart wrote:Aye..;-)Erin wrote:Sorry Erin, but what exactly is the second Amendment? Is that the one "The right of the people to keep and bear arms"?John S Stuart wrote: if that appears to be bashing sacred US constitutions, then sorry, I will continue to do so.I'll bash the Second Amendment any day of the week. |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 20:16 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I think everybody is against me now :) But i want to say the following: 1) Welfare State sometimes means that the government have to take care and protect the people who haves no job. It's true that sometimes the people who lives under welfare takes advantages of the state. And that's why the government have to promote and create jobs. I think if the government use (at lest) 2% of the budget. 2) I apologize if i insulte anyone of you by my thougths. I think you all yankees didn't accept Bush as a president when he made trap to win. 3) I'm still thinking that Bush have to take care about his own bussiness, and leave the rest of the world in peace. 4) I know its difficult find job, i'm trying to now... 5) Finally, i hope everybody here thinks that, it is not Arlene's fault not to have a job, is USA government, 'cause this government doesn't support those people... let me remember the Live 8 phrase: "Let's make poverty history", and that's what all the governments of the world should unite and make poverty history, not only in Africa, in all the countries of the world.You, my friend, are an idiot. I would not have said this based on your original post, but you have effectively and doggedly proved this in each statement you have posted. How can you speak about what you do not know?? How many times have you been unable to find employment in the United States? It may be difficult to find a job in Chile, as you indicate. But it is not hard to find work in the United States. I think these posts are composed out of bitterness. Based on your skewed and cynical views of your fellow man, I fear your search for a job may be fruitless because employers don't want bitter, cynical, bigots in their workplace. |
Lisser 02.12.2005 20:23 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I think everybody is against me now :) But i want to say the following: 1) Welfare State sometimes means that the government have to take care and protect the people who haves no job. It's true that sometimes the people who lives under welfare takes advantages of the state. And that's why the government have to promote and create jobs. I think if the government use (at lest) 2% of the budget. 2) I apologize if i insulte anyone of you by my thougths. I think you all yankees didn't accept Bush as a president when he made trap to win. 3) I'm still thinking that Bush have to take care about his own bussiness, and leave the rest of the world in peace. 4) I know its difficult find job, i'm trying to now... 5) Finally, i hope everybody here thinks that, it is not Arlene's fault not to have a job, is USA government, 'cause this government doesn't support those people... let me remember the Live 8 phrase: "Let's make poverty history", and that's what all the governments of the world should unite and make poverty history, not only in Africa, in all the countries of the world.I whole heartedly disagree with #5 to begin with. I think/hope Arlene would disagree too. It is not the government's fault she has a temporary job currently or hasn't paid her rent the past two months. I'm not surprised you are looking for a job as you posted in #4. I don't see ethically, how you could be employed as a social worker with how you impose and expect your own values and beliefs on others and expect everyone to take what you say as gospel. Just out of curiousity, whose fault is it that you are out of work? In your #1 statement, how much of your country's budget is devoted to a welfare system? I don't see how this is relevant to people pounding the pavement and obtaining employment. Welfare is not a permanent solution or a permanent way of life. That is not what it is intended to be in this country. #2, I'm not clear on what you are trying to say? What's with calling us Yankees? Do social workers in your country make practice out of calling others potentially offending names? What if I called everyone in your country a burrito or a gringo? I'm taking offense to you calling me a Yankee. I don't like it. What does "made trap to win" mean? Maybe the problem here is a language barrier but I'm not completely convinced of that. I hope it is just a language barrier though. |
Erin 02.12.2005 20:26 |
Lisser wrote: #2, I'm not clear on what you are trying to say? What's with calling us Yankees?Yeah, technically I'd be a Rebel..;-) |
Maruga 02.12.2005 20:37 |
jasen101 wrote: I welcome Arlene to Canada...I just hope she can speak French....tu parles francais sweetie? We take all the American rejects and turn them into mounties. I promise Arlene she will have a Canadian Government job in no time! Now join me in our beautiful national anthem: "Oh Canada Our home and native land True patriot love In all our sons commands We hate George Bush and the right wing nuts that rule you by your balls In Canada We are trully free We like hockey and the French God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee!"Very funny your anthem. And i know why yankees hate canadians, 'cause canadians are best people and have a best government. Cheers. |
jcrawford79 02.12.2005 20:39 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote:Since when do "yankees", as you call us, hate Canadians?jasen101 wrote: I welcome Arlene to Canada...I just hope she can speak French....tu parles francais sweetie? We take all the American rejects and turn them into mounties. I promise Arlene she will have a Canadian Government job in no time! Now join me in our beautiful national anthem: "Oh Canada Our home and native land True patriot love In all our sons commands We hate George Bush and the right wing nuts that rule you by your balls In Canada We are trully free We like hockey and the French God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee!"Very funny your anthem. And i know why yankees hate canadians, 'cause canadians are best people and have a best government. Cheers. |
Sergei. 02.12.2005 20:55 |
Errrr....does all this america bashing have anything to do with arlene???? |
Megamike The GREAT 02.12.2005 21:07 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote:Hey Dude,jasen101 wrote: I welcome Arlene to Canada...I just hope she can speak French....tu parles francais sweetie? We take all the American rejects and turn them into mounties. I promise Arlene she will have a Canadian Government job in no time! Now join me in our beautiful national anthem: "Oh Canada Our home and native land True patriot love In all our sons commands We hate George Bush and the right wing nuts that rule you by your balls In Canada We are trully free We like hockey and the French God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee!"Very funny your anthem. And i know why yankees hate canadians, 'cause canadians are best people and have a best government. Cheers. just a little note from the down and out here, I am nearly 40, unemployed with a severe mental illness which thanks to a few of you people here badgering me to seek, I have found help and am about to join the millions of those people that are "Drains" on the system, or leeches, I cannot hold a job, I grow paranoid at each one, I suffer from a couple illnesses I wish not to discuss.. and by the way, I stopped by to see how you all were doing and I see THIS ASSHOLE bashing all America cause the other 51% voted for Bush.. as a felon I cannot vote, I bet if they allowed Felons a chance to vote they would NOT have voted Bush.. and as far as Yankees, I agree with Lisser, How would you take to me calling all Mexian-latino people SPICKS.. I know it gets a few around here REALLY pissed off.. So... go back to hiding food stamp under the work boots of your fellow people and then call it job reform and eat your Taco and SHUT THE HELL UP! By the way, not sure how long I will be sticking around.. these meds are REALLY doing a wonderful job.. I applied for SSI last month and have a 98% chance of getting back on it. Thanks Mel.. |
iron eagle 02.12.2005 21:11 |
there is no reason to even mention banning no blame game, no bush bashing, no anti american crap either facts are facts--they can be twisted to fit just about any argument or belief bottom line, as always people here reached out and tried to help, tried to be supportive, and did what they could the ball is in her court now... i hope it works out for her |
Megamike The GREAT 02.12.2005 21:14 |
I have been homeless in California a couple times, and I must say its not fun, although I am not kidding, they eat better than I ever did.. the local missions were very kind, but I am the kind of person that hates to ask for help, which is why it took me so long to go back on SSI.. I really wish Arlene luck |
John S Stuart 02.12.2005 21:14 |
NO, no, no, no, no, no, no.... This thread has turned out all wrong, and here's the reason why... John S Stuart wrote: "My replies were NOT meant to be a choice between supporting Arlene on the one hand - at the expense of the USA on the other. Nevertheless, having a US citizen asking for her to banned from Queenzone, artificially polarises the argument. So support for Arlene somehow becomes skewed as Anti-American." This seems to be the trap we are all falling into, support for Arlene has turned into anti-USA sentiment and this should NOT be the case. Why are we flinging insults at each other? "Eat your Taco and SHUT THE HELL UP!", "Yankees", etc, etc... Can we please agree to disagree without all the vitriol? |
Maruga 02.12.2005 21:19 |
This is the last thing i will say here... I only hope that Arlene can find a decent job, 'cause she and other unemployees deserve a decent job. Mari: She wasn't looking for attention, if she was, that's mean you think the same of me?. A message for Bush: Start to take care of the really needs of your people, and STOP WAR!!!! Para los que hablan español: Alguien dijo por ahí que Chávez es un idiota, pues pienso que lo es... cree que siguiendo a Fidel es lo mejor para Venezuela. Imagínense cuando ganó Lagos en mi país, todos pensaron que volveríamos a los tiempos de Allende... Y no fué así... Mi país está mejor que nunca y por eso MICHELLE BACHELET será la próxima presidenta de mi querido país. Good-Bye all. |
Sergei. 02.12.2005 21:29 |
Uhhhh.... |
Maz 02.12.2005 23:40 |
Haystacks Calhoun wrote: I said before, you will find that in America, a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is?You tell me. By all means, define "professional student." And, unless I missed something, how is Arlene a "professional student"? She said she has two degrees, which could mean she had a double major for that matter. I suppose that under your definition I am a "professional student" which must mean I can't find and hold down a decent job. I find your assumptions about "professional students" rather ignorant. Sure, there are individuals who use school to avoid responsiblities, but then there are also non-academic people who bounce from job to job with the same mentality. Or do you just have some hidden contempt for higher education? Not unusual, at all. Many middle-class conservatives find higher education too elitist and liberal for their liking. |
Music Man 03.12.2005 00:56 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: I think everybody is against me now :) But i want to say the following: 1) Welfare State sometimes means that the government have to take care and protect the people who haves no job. It's true that sometimes the people who lives under welfare takes advantages of the state. And that's why the government have to promote and create jobs. I think if the government use (at lest) 2% of the budget.Get it through your thick head. We do not need to promote and create jobs. There is a plethora of jobs in the service sector. So please, shut up already. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: 2) I apologize if i insulte anyone of you by my thougths. I think you all yankees didn't accept Bush as a president when he made trap to win.Alright, so perhaps you are not very keen on our democratic process of election in America. You see, there are generally two main candidates for the position of President of the United States of America. The person who receives the greatest quantity of electoral votes becomes the President. In this case, George W. Bush amassed a greater quantity of these votes than his Democratic (the other party in America, as opposed to Bush's Republican party) counterpart. No traps, no tricks, no manipulation. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: 3) I'm still thinking that Bush have to take care about his own bussiness, and leave the rest of the world in peace.That is called isolationism. The United States no longer practices this policy. Sorry you don't like it. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: 4) I know its difficult find job, i'm trying to now...No. Bad Maruga. Wrong. <font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: 5) Finally, i hope everybody here thinks that, it is not Arlene's fault not to have a job, is USA government, 'cause this government doesn't support those people... let me remember the Live 8 phrase: "Let's make poverty history", and that's what all the governments of the world should unite and make poverty history, not only in Africa, in all the countries of the world.The government, the government. Dependence on the government is absolutely ridiculous, and blaming it for all your shortcomings is even worse. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST INKLING OF KNOWLEDGE CONCERNING THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. |
Serry... 03.12.2005 03:17 |
Anti-USA discussion without Serry's involvement... The wonders go on! |
quicksilver mercury 03.12.2005 04:21 |
jasen101 wrote: I welcome Arlene to Canada...I just hope she can speak French....tu parles francais sweetie? We take all the American rejects and turn them into mounties. I promise Arlene she will have a Canadian Government job in no time! Now join me in our beautiful national anthem: "Oh Canada Our home and native land True patriot love In all our sons commands We hate George Bush and the right wing nuts that rule you by your balls In Canada We are trully free We like hockey and the French God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee!""Oh Canada Our cowerdly land True same sex love In our sons underpants We steal and whine from U.S.A. all the time we don't hasve any balls In Canada We are only free cos George Bush supports democracy God keep our land Free for gays and arabs... Oh Canada we stand on gaurd for thee Oh Canada thank God for American liberty!" |
Guy 03.12.2005 04:24 |
Serry<h6>Inventor of terrible English wrote: Anti-USA discussion without Serry's involvement... The wonders go on!I was wondering where you were myself. I don't understand why every second topic in the Personal forum has to include negative comments, hate and bashing. This goes both to the topic starter and to some of those who replied, such as Marunga and scott. |
YourValentine 03.12.2005 04:57 |
I did not post in the Arlene thread because I do not know anything about the issue and I cannot help. I also know that we always have to keep in mind that what we see on the internet must not necessarily reflect the whole truth. Of course Arlene has every right as a QZ member to post about her current problems and if the topic starter is fed up, all he had to do was avoid the topic instead of starting a new one. I fully agree with John Stuart and I do not see how he could be perceived as Anti American. All he said was that the system does not work for all people and how can anybody be offended by this statement. I was very surprised that the American posters, although really being helpful, find it normal that a college graduate should work two or even three low paid jobs to make a living. But that is sure a matter of mentality. As to the other issue discussed in this thread. I grew up in a country that was eternally grateful to the USA for putting an end to the Nazis and introducing democracy. We learned everything from the USA: to be fair and respect the rights of others, to be generous and help the poor to make a living, to help the ignorant to get an education, to build up a society where everybody has a chance to live in peace and legal and social security. To be alarmed when human rights are violated anywhere because we know that we can be the next victims any time. But today the USA under Bush is regarded as one of the most brutal regimes in the world. Under Bush they abandoned the fight for human rights and introduced torture as a liable means in the alleged fight against terrorism. In all human right reports the USA are always named among other cruel regimes as China, North Korea and a couple of African countries. They created the term "Non Person" to deny people the most basic human rights. People are held in secret places with no lawyers, no legal hearing, no legal court. Now you say you are not responsible because you did not vote for Bush and his approval rate is on an all time low. But isn't that the same lazy attitude you blame Arlene for in the other thread? You are citizens of this beautiful country and you are the ones who have to make the difference. How is it possible that the war criminal Rumsfeld was made defense secretary in the second Bush term without a public outcry? Why are there no demonstrations and why are there no mass emails to congress members and senators? It was possible that Clinton was impeached for lying to the public about an extra marital affair but it is not possible to do something about the clique that ruins your country and other countries? As a German I am blamed for the Nazis wherever I go. Whenever I have a discussion about human rights with people of other countries they will bring it up at some point. I can say that I was not even born, that my parents were small children and my grandfather died in a Nazi prison but the fact remains that it was my country who committed all these crimes and the shame is the same no matter if I contributed or not. The shame that such atrocities could happen in my country and the majority of the people looked away because it was "only" the Jews, the Czechs, the Poles, the French, the Russians... until there was nobody left to defend their own human rights. It's not Anti American to speak out against violations of international law and human rights violations. We are all responsible for this world and the responsibilty does not end in a voting booth. Do not forget that if you do not fight for the rights of other people, nobody will be left to fight for your rights. |
Fairy 03.12.2005 06:16 |
Music Man wrote: |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 07:03 |
@Haystacks Banning someone may be a solution for "wrestlers" living in and defending "the spirit" of a communist country like China... Never knew up until now that Ohio (or Pennsylvania?) can already be counted as part of the "greater Beijing metropolitan-area"?! ;-) @YourValentine & Fairy Very well said Barbara(?) and Francesca... couldn´t have said it or expressed my thoughts any better...!!! |
Fairy 03.12.2005 08:16 |
Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote: @Haystacks Banning someone may be a solution for "wrestlers" living in and defending "the spirit" of a communist country like China... Never knew up until now that Ohio (or Pennsylvania?) can already be counted as part of the "greater Beijing metropolitan-area"?! ;-) LOL! Yes I forgot to reply to that part of the thread. The idea of banning her is absurd. Even if none of us believed Arlene's good intentions that still wouldn't be a reason to ban anyone!! @YourValentine & Fairy Very well said Barbara(?) and Francesca... couldn´t have said it or expressed my thoughts any better...!!!Thanks Frank dear!!! :-) |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 09:19 |
Boy, I started a shit storm, didn't I???? This is the jist of what I am saying. There is ample opportunity in this country to find work. It may not be the kind of work that you like, it may not be the kind of work that you went to college for, but there is plenty of work out there. Arlene is, without a doubt, in a terrible pickle. Apparently, she has nothing lined up in terms of a dependable job, and lives in an area that she, simply put, can no longer afford to live in. Added to that, she also cannot afford to move to a more affordable area. My point was that instead of posting on here, and then shooting down the offers of help by us, perhaps she should have planned for this YEARS AGO. She, at some point, must assume personal responsibility for the situation that she finds herself in. There. Now, regarding the America bashing thing. John, I was responding to our dear social worker, not to you. I, personally, think that the US is the best country in the world. Others do not share that opinion, and they have every right to do that. However, when you have someone like her, using all the sweeping, and frankly ignorant generalizations that the media force feeds her, it needs to be called out. My point about "This is America, for Christ's sake", in simple terms, is that there is opportunity here for everyone, but it is up to the individual to make the proper choices in life in order to be successful. It is not governments fault if you make bad choices and screw things up. That said, there are numerous programs out there to help those folks who do foul thier lives up. Welfare, charity, food stamps, rent vouchers, all of those are good things, neccesary things. Unfortunately, there are many who play the system, which really screws things up for people like Arlene, who really needs help, but cannot get it. |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 09:25 |
BTW, I wasn't serious about banning Arlene, but I just do not see what good it does to have 16 pages on the subject. I liked it better when she was posting her articles.... Obviously, I was wrong, as this topic has turned into a firestorm as well. " You can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!!!" Otter |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 09:38 |
Zeni wrote:Talk about sweeping generalizations...Haystacks Calhoun wrote: I said before, you will find that in America, a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is?You tell me. By all means, define "professional student." And, unless I missed something, how is Arlene a "professional student"? She said she has two degrees, which could mean she had a double major for that matter. I suppose that under your definition I am a "professional student" which must mean I can't find and hold down a decent job. I find your assumptions about "professional students" rather ignorant. Sure, there are individuals who use school to avoid responsiblities, but then there are also non-academic people who bounce from job to job with the same mentality. Or do you just have some hidden contempt for higher education? Not unusual, at all. Many middle-class conservatives find higher education too elitist and liberal for their liking. I is a colledge edukated boy, first of all, and have nothing but hte utmost respect for those who choose to better themselves, and enhance their future opportunities by educating themselves. That said, at some point, be it fresh out of high school, or after 8 years of college, you have to find a job, and stick with it. That, to my mind, is the single best way to assure success later in life. In my business, I see people all the time who jump from job to job every 3-6 months, looking for the fast buck, and when the first sign of adversity pops up, they move on. Now, simply judging my what Arlene has told us about her situation, with the education she has, it seemed to me that she may well fit that bill. To further illustrate, I went to college, majored in Elementary Education at Miami University. Now, almost 9 1/2 years later, the only people that I have to answer to where I work are the owners. I started here after college in the summer of '96, and stayed. I had ample opportunity to move on, but chose to stay in one place. I could have made the choice to bounce from place to place, but instead picked the conservative option, if you will. Not the job I thought that I would be doing when I graduated, but seeing opportunity and grabbing it is crucial to overall success in life. Sadly, I make more than double the salary of a teacher, but that is another indictment altogether. When a Sales Manager makes more than a Teacher, some priority somewhere is seriously flawed..... |
Serry... 03.12.2005 09:44 |
"When a Sales Manager makes more than a Teacher, some priority somewhere is seriously flawed....." Agree! Same happens here. I'm a MSc, a damned high class engineer and... Well, I don't want to complain... |
Guy 03.12.2005 09:54 |
Barbara, you've made some excellent points. However, something in your post bothered me. People were not treated as people before Bush was elected. The only difference is now the media is much more free to report about such things. You are right, of course, in some of the things you say, but not regarding the war on terror. Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror. What would have happened if German athletes had been murdered as well in the 1972 Munich Olympics? I have no doubt you would think otherwise. People look at things differently when they get hurt. |
Fairy 03.12.2005 10:25 |
What bothered me the most about what Barbara said is that America is put at the same level as brutal regimes. I think this is absurd, no matter what one thinks of the war and of Bush. Facts speak for themselves, and comparing the US to North Korea and China is absurd. Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively. |
Guy 03.12.2005 10:28 |
Fairy wrote: What bothered me the most about what Barbara said is that America is put at the same level as brutal regimes. I think this is absurd, no matter what one thinks of the war and of Bush. Facts speak for themselves, and comparing the US to North Korea and China is absurd. Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively.That's correct. Somehow, I overlooked that part. |
John S Stuart 03.12.2005 10:29 |
Guy wrote: Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.I think you may need to revise this Guy. As far as I know, the level of terrorism meted out at the USA tragically occured during the 911 attacks. By comparison, apart from the tragic bombings in London earlier this year, the UK (including Northern Ireland) spent at least 20 years under the shadow of IRA terroism, in part sponsored by US funding. Spain, Greece, Israel, Bali, parts of Africa and even Australia have all been blighted by terrorism in recent times. So to say "few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA", really is either very FAR from the mark indeed - or you know very little regarding the rest of the world. |
Serry... 03.12.2005 10:32 |
...and again everyone forgot about 1000 killed Russian children in the terrorist attack in Beslan... |
Fairy 03.12.2005 10:41 |
It's OK to demand fairness for trials, good treatment for prisoners, transparency...But I always have the impression that all these legitimate concerns too often overshadow the crimes these individuals have committed, and the atrocious deeds their evil minds have been capable of planning (and with no remorse they would and will plan more). Sept. 11th is mentioned so seldom...Bashing Bush is fashionable...I'm just amazed to see so little indignation about what has been done to us (us = any righteous person in the world no matter where they live). After Sept. 11th, the rules have changed. Mentality has changed. And I'm sorry, but even though Western Governments have made mistakes and still do, the major blame is on those who started it all. Sure, the reasons for terrorism are complex and we all have our share of fault, but NOTHING can justify hijacking of planes with innocent civilians used to kill other innocent civilians, and this on purpose, to target the innocent. |
Fairy 03.12.2005 10:48 |
So Barry your theory is: let them alone so they won't attack us? Let the US fight alone because it's their business? In the Twin Towers there were people of all nationalities and religions. Don't tell me you seriously think Sept. 11th was just an attack to the US, do you? Oh OK you said you won't post in this thread anymore LOL. |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 11:06 |
Serry<h6>Inventor of terrible English wrote: ...and again everyone forgot about 1000 killed Russian children in the terrorist attack in Beslan...I haven't...... If I recall, Putin dealt with those responsible. |
Mr.Jingles 03.12.2005 11:26 |
I come from Colombia, and I know for a fact that the anti-American sentiment spread by the left wing in Latin America is completely biased and based on pure bitterness. Government universities for low income students are the most common place where young people get brainwashed into believing that all Americans are evil, greedy, arrogant, selfish, and power hungry. My cousin goes to one of those universities and she's already brainwashed into believing a whole bunch of extreme left wing crap. It makes me sick to the stomach to realize that she has become one of those idiots who idolize Che Guevara. Last christmas we had this Cuban guy who is a friend of my brother in law. He told us that his grandfather was a Cuban residing in Spain, and he joined Castro during the Cuban Revolution. Then, when Castro came into power, his grandfather wanted to go back to Spain, but Castro wouldn't allow him and he ended up being tortured when he made an attempt to flee Cuba. So you see, there's nothing more hypocritical than when both the extreme left and right wing go waving their "freedom flags" when in fact they are the nothing but opressors. |
Erin 03.12.2005 11:27 |
YourValentine wrote: Now you say you are not responsible because you did not vote for Bush and his approval rate is on an all time low. But isn't that the same lazy attitude you blame Arlene for in the other thread? You are citizens of this beautiful country and you are the ones who have to make the difference.I still don't know what I personally or anyone else could have done to make a difference. The man was elected, well..technically he WASN'T on his first term..., so what could be done? There were plenty of people that were extremely upset by Bush's re-election. And it seems to me that almost everyone in the entire country agrees that he is an inarticulate moron. All I can do is show up to the polls and cast my vote. Other than that, I am clueless. If I were to stand on the street corner of anywhere in South Carolina (a VERY RED, VERY conservative state) protesting Bush, I'm liable to get hurt..:-S |
bitesthedust 03.12.2005 11:55 |
I agree with what Barry said about the London bombings, I shared those views at the time and still do. With regards to what Fairy said in terms of "let the U.S. fight alone as it is their business" (not a direct quote, just paraphrasing), if the UK had not gotten involved in Afghanistan/Iraq we would not have not had the 7/7 attacks, and with that in mind I feel we (the UK) should have left well alone. The UK is a soft touch for illegal immigrants and extremists who live off the state and openly preach terrorism (Abu Hamza for one). In that respect we have brought this on ourselves. Not only did we get involved in America's war, we allow these people to live here and concoct such plans. This problem never occurred until after 9/11, it seems. The UK should fight terrorism by enforcing strict guidelines with regards to existing illegal immigrants, extremists and asylum seekers by kicking out those that do not wish to live as law-abiding citizens, and enforcing stricter checks on those that are applying to arrive. Not by encouraging more to arrive undetected by seemingly turning a blind eye and getting involved in the Middle East. That's my opinion, not the gospel. Look at France - they opposed the war and have taken a lot of criticism for it but I can understand their government's viewpoint. Whether the recent race riots in Paris are connected is another story. Re. 9/11. It wasn't just Americans that were killed that day but it was an attack on America by Islamic extremists, like Barry said, it was what the World Trade Centre stood for in part, but it was the USA itself in a huge city like New York. Islamic extremists chose to hit America that day, nowhere else. That is fact. I totally abhor the 7/7, 9/11 and the attempted 21/7 attacks; in both instances it is clear that both operations could have been prevented beforehand. Whether any readers agree with me or not is down to their disrection and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But that's my two-penneth on the matter. |
jcrawford79 03.12.2005 12:02 |
bitesthedust<br><h6>The QZ gentleman... wrote: I agree with what Barry said about the London bombings, I shared those views at the time and still do. With regards to what Fairy said in terms of "let the U.S. fight alone as it is their business" (not a direct quote, just paraphrasing), if the UK had not gotten involved in Afghanistan/Iraq we would not have not had the 7/7 attacks, and with that in mind I feel we (the UK) should have left well alone. The UK is a soft touch for illegal immigrants and extremists who live off the state and openly preach terrorism (Abu Hamza for one), in that respect we have brought this on ourselves. Not only did we get involved in America's war, we allow these people to live here and concoct such plans. This problem never occurred until after 9/11, it seems. The UK should fight terrorism by enforcing strict guidelines as regards illegal immigrants, extremists and asylum seekers by kicking out these people that currently live here that do not wish to exist as law-abiding citizens. Not by encouraging more to arrive undetected by seemingly turning a blind eye and getting involved in the Middle East. That's my opinion, not the gospel. Look at France - they opposed the war and have taken a lot of criticism for it but I can understand their government's viewpoint. Whether the recent race riots in Paris are connected is another story. Re. 9/11. It wasn't just Americans that were killed that day but it was an attack on America by Islamic extremists, like Barry said, it was what the World Trade Centre stood for in part, but it was the USA itself in a huge city like New York. Islamic extremists chose to hit America that day, nowhere else. That is fact. I totally abhor the 7/7, 9/11 and the attempted 21/7 attacks; in both instances it is clear that both operations could have been prevented beforehand. Whether any readers agree with me or not is down to their disrection and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But that's my two-penneth on the matter.While I agree that our American troops should never have been sent to Iraq from the beginning, I think its a foolish and naive belief that the U.S. was their only target and simply due to our continued occupation of their homelands. With or without your nation's assistance in this war, your country would, at some point, have experienced what our nation has. They have made it clear time and time again that this war is waged against the "white devils" of the West, not just the United States. |
bitesthedust 03.12.2005 12:04 |
I didn't say the USA was the only target. Read my post again...I stated that on 9/11, Islamic extremists chose to attack the USA. Nowhere else. They have stated that it is a war against the West, as you say and I agree with that. It is my belief that if the UK had not gotten involved we would have had 7/7...nor would we have terror networks in the UK through a huge influx of immigrants and asylum seekers, who are seemingly allowed to preach and do whatever the hell they like here. However that is down to the UK government, not America. |
Erin 03.12.2005 12:13 |
It was a only matter of time before there was a terrorist attack in London, however I do think the UK involvement in Iraq probably expedited the process. |
jcrawford79 03.12.2005 12:17 |
Erin wrote: It was a only matter of time before there was a terrorist attack in London, however I do think the UK involvement in Iraq probably expedited the process.Precisely my point. I think they (the terrorists) see the English in much the same way they see the Americans but their involvement in this war certainly expedited things. |
Mr.Jingles 03.12.2005 12:37 |
As much as we wish this will never happen, there's the strong possibility that another terrorist attack as bad or worse than 9/11 could happen in the U.S. in the next years. Of course this wouldn't be happening in Dumbya didn't set his priorities straight. The war on terror is against Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. As ruthless as Saddam Hussein was, that was a whole different story. link As you can see, for some reason Bush is not very concerned about finding the person who killed 3.000 Americans. |
Maz 03.12.2005 12:57 |
Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Talk about sweeping generalizations...Never doubted you were college educated, my dear Haystacks. Only thing that surprised me was the degree. Pegged you as more of an econ major myself. But you also never answered my question. You seem to imply that there is something inherent about professional students that makes them incapable of holding down a job: Haystacks Calhoun wrote: a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is?At some point, you are right, people need to find a job and stick with it. But, as many "professional students" will tell you, that cannont happen until later in life. Besides, not everyone measures individual success in monetary terms. |
Penetration_Guru 03.12.2005 13:03 |
I've only read the first page of tis, but personally if/when I'm about to be homeless/jobless & hungry for the foreseeable future, I'll probably knock the internet on the head for a bit. Maybe go out, meet some real people, make some friends (who possibly would have helped if they'd known me before I became destitute). But that's just me. |
FreddiesGhettoTrench 03.12.2005 13:09 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 13:40 |
Zeni wrote:I am quite sure, that, at this point, Arlene does not consider herself an individual success...Haystacks Calhoun wrote: Talk about sweeping generalizations...Never doubted you were college educated, my dear Haystacks. Only thing that surprised me was the degree. Pegged you as more of an econ major myself. But you also never answered my question. You seem to imply that there is something inherent about professional students that makes them incapable of holding down a job:Haystacks Calhoun wrote: a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is?At some point, you are right, people need to find a job and stick with it. But, as many "professional students" will tell you, that cannont happen until later in life. Besides, not everyone measures individual success in monetary terms. I measure my success by my family. If I lost my house tomorrow, as long as my wife and my daughter are safe, I can find a place to live. It does help, though, to have a safe and warm home. I don't think that "professional students" are incapable of holding down a job, but they are always looking for something better, something different. That leads to moving on to different jobs more often than that type of individual is going to keep a job that is "in the box". But, at some point in that journey, you need to find an anchor. |
Maz 03.12.2005 13:50 |
Nor do I consider Arlene a professional student, but that's arguing semantics at this point. I agree with your measures of success. Absolutely. But what's a "safe and warm" home to you might be slightly different to me. Some might consider cable TV a necessary element of a warm home, others don't. I certainly don't judge success by my golfing allowance, and I doubt that increasing the number of books on your shelf is your top priority each month. Sematics again, sure, but just because others choose to live differently does not make it wrong. And not everyone needs the anchor if they can make enough money to get by. Some people just need to stay intellectually stimulated or challenged to keep going. |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 14:18 |
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:It never rains in southern california I was once told! So if it now does... sure it´s because of Bush...<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. ...and the Eagles are losers anyway... no matter what president... Da Bears will make it this time... rain or shine... bush or lawn...!!! :-))) |
Lisser 03.12.2005 14:33 |
Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote:Nu uhhhhhhhh!! WHO DEY!!!!FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:It never rains in southern california I was once told! So if it now does... sure it´s because of Bush... ...and the Eagles are loosers anyway... no matter what president... Da Bears will make it this time... rain or shine... bush or lawn...!!! :-)))<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. |
doremi 03.12.2005 14:44 |
Barry, I just got back from my morning shift at my telemarketing job that ends 12/6. How am I a professional student? I graduated in 1985!!!!!!!!!!!! 20 years ago. I went to college from 1979-1985 and took 2 majors, got 2 BA's, in 1985!!!!!! After that I had a job for 5 years that went out of business. I moved to Florida for 2 years, had a job there, moved back to Maryland, had a job for TEN years that was bought out in a merger by another company and they downsized all the original employyes, including me, I worked at another job for 4 years, which had financial problems and let me go last winter. I have never quit a job in my life and held on to every job I have had until they went out of business or underwent a merger and downsized me. |
Haystacks Calhoun 03.12.2005 14:55 |
That sucks.... Looks more like bad luck in picking jobs than anything. I sincerely hope that everything works out for you. I really do. You just should have moved to the Cincinnati area!?!?!?!?!?!?! ha ha |
doremi 03.12.2005 15:01 |
For everyone's information, I am 44 years old... ...but, I have worked full time since I was 14 years old, supported my mother and I also was her caretaker until I was 35, ... ..I worked my way through college and I put myself through college,.. ...I took the bus/public transportation until I was 29 years old and didn't buy my 1st car until I was 29 years old, and have paid taxes and worked since I was 14 years old. ....I am the only member of my family to..NOT..be a high school drop out. Even with scholorships, college was so expensive that I had to work full time to put my self through, but I was determined to do it and I spent 13 years paying back my student loans and got 2 college degrees. After a lifetime I hit a hard time, and some of you speak like I never worked or did my part. ...I have paid taxes for 30 some years and have worked sometimes as many as THREE jobs simultaneously,.... ... took care of my mom, helped her pay off the mortgage on our home before she sold it, WHILE I worked my way through college, graduated WITH HONORS on the Deans List and I am Omicron Delta Kappa College Honor Society. I am proud of the hard, responsible work I have done my entire life and I make no apologies for the one time in my life I have fallen on hard times. |
Music Man 03.12.2005 15:08 |
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:If Bush could effectively make the Eagles lose, I really wouldn't mind a third term, to be honest. Actually, I really wouldn't mind if we made him dictator, or whatever. Just as long as he puts an end to those God-damned Eagles!<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 15:13 |
Lisser wrote:"Kill" the Colts first... before being eatin´ by da Bears next february... ! ;-)Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote:Nu uhhhhhhhh!! WHO DEY!!!!FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:It never rains in southern california I was once told! So if it now does... sure it´s because of Bush... ...and the Eagles are losers anyway... no matter what president... Da Bears will make it this time... rain or shine... bush or lawn...!!! :-)))<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. |
Erin 03.12.2005 15:20 |
Football..*yawn* Oh yeah, go panthers. |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 15:25 |
Erin wrote: Football...*yawn* Oh yeah, go panthers.I have a Teddy Bear called "Sunday" who hates Football any given.... Sunday! Sorry to say, but he dislikes panthers too... ;-) |
Erin 03.12.2005 15:27 |
Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote: I have a Teddy Bear called "Sunday" who hates Football any given.... Sunday! Sorry to say, but he dislikes panthers too... ;-)If I was going to watch football, it'd be college football. Go Gamecocks!! *lol* |
Music Man 03.12.2005 15:33 |
Actually, to be quite honest, I really enjoy seeing the Patriots lose. I know, they are one of those teams one would ask, "What do you have against the Pats?" Everything. First of all, Patriots fans are completely annoying with their arrogant, "Look at how many Super Bowl rings Tom Brady has at such a young age, he's going to be the best quarterback ever," followed immediately by, "The best aspect of the team is that there are no star players!" And, of course, every Patriots fan has been one for the past twenty years - no fairweather fandom here. Not one. Funny how all Patriots fans wear Tom Brady jerseys, since he's been with the team through all these years. Not to mention, as a 49ers fan, that Tom Brady is sullying Joe Montana's legacy by winning all these rings and MVP titles. Four-time Super Bowl champion, and three-time Super Bowl MVP Joe Montana - truly a legend. Widely acknowledged as the greatest quarterback in NFL history. Suddenly, this new quarterback, who is unimpressive in many aspects, is approaching these records at breakneck speeds! Now, I didn't mind when Peyton Manning broke Steve Young's titles because, well, he deserved it. Manning is an extroadinary QB, tiers above Brady. I still think Young is one of the best quarterbacks to touch a football, but Manning is up there. Now Brady isn't anywhere near the levels of Montana, or Young, and he's receiving all this acclaim, and has already undoubtedly clinched a spot in the hall of fame. It's depressing. Hopefully this season signals the end of the Patriots' dynasty. It sure seems that way. Since I can't count on the 49ers to win (anything), I'll have to put my hopes into this completely dominating machine known as the Colts. |
doremi 03.12.2005 15:37 |
Erin wrote:Gamecocks! I don't follow sports much, but ERIN!!!! ;-)Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote: I have a Teddy Bear called "Sunday" who hates Football any given.... Sunday! Sorry to say, but he dislikes panthers too... ;-)If I was going to watch football, it'd be college football. Go Gamecocks!! *lol* |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 15:38 |
Music Man wrote:Just like his dad once did to the Bills??? Isn´t it called the Bushes "NFL Voodoo"???FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:If Bush could effectively make the Eagles lose, I really wouldn't mind a third term, to be honest. Actually, I really wouldn't mind if we made him dictator, or whatever. Just as long as he puts an end to those God-damned Eagles!<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault.Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya. It still may work ?!?... ...you just have to believe and keep voting for the republicans in years to come! :-))) |
Erin 03.12.2005 15:40 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote: Gamecocks! I don't follow sports much, but ERIN!!!! ;-)Yup... C-A-R-O-L-I-N-A..gooooooooooooo COCKS!!! |
doremi 03.12.2005 15:46 |
Erin wrote:*Blushes* ^^Arlene R. Weiss wrote: Gamecocks! I don't follow sports much, but ERIN!!!! ;-)Yup... C-A-R-O-L-I-N-A..gooooooooooooo COCKS!!! Sounds like a team Freddie may have followed! Oh No! See what you've done. Now I'm on a roll. Like a foot long hot dog!, with bologna! I needed some levity and a laugh today. My life's in the crapper but I have QZ to put a smile on my face. :D |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 15:57 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote:Fred always rooted for the COCKS! Bingo... your absolutely right Arlene! He didn´t make any differences between NC or SC cocks though.... are there any Erin? :-)))Erin wrote:*Blushes* ^^ Sounds like a team Freddie may have followed! Oh No! See what you've done. Now I'm on a roll. Like a foot long hot dog!, with bologna! I needed some levity and a laugh today. My life's in the crapper but I have QZ to put a smile on my face. :DArlene R. Weiss wrote: Gamecocks! I don't follow sports much, but ERIN!!!! ;-)Yup... C-A-R-O-L-I-N-A..gooooooooooooo COCKS!!! |
Erin 03.12.2005 15:58 |
You should see some of our bumper stickers here, Arlene. There is one that says: "You can't LICK our COCKS!" Of course, anyone who had that sticker, more than likely, would have a big Rebel flag decal stating..."Redneck & Proud Of It!" |
doremi 03.12.2005 16:03 |
Erin wrote: You should see some of our bumper stickers here, Arlene. There is one that says: "You can't LICK our COCKS!" Of course, anyone who had that sticker, more than likely, would have a big Rebel flag decal stating..."Redneck & Proud Of It!"LMAO!!!! ;-) |
bohemian 11513 03.12.2005 16:14 |
Erin wrote: You should see some of our bumper stickers here, Arlene. There is one that says: "You can't LICK our COCKS!" Of course, anyone who had that sticker, more than likely, would have a big Rebel flag decal stating..."Redneck & Proud Of It!"..are you sure it doesn´t say "Redskins & Proud Of It!"? Sarah Jane to the rescue.. is it Redskins or Rednecks? :-))) |
doremi 03.12.2005 17:20 |
YourValentine wrote: I did not post in the Arlene thread because I do not know anything about the issue and I cannot help. I also know that we always have to keep in mind that what we see on the internet must not necessarily reflect the whole truth. Of course Arlene has every right as a QZ member to post about her current problems and if the topic starter is fed up, all he had to do was avoid the topic instead of starting a new one. I fully agree with John Stuart and I do not see how he could be perceived as Anti American. All he said was that the system does not work for all people and how can anybody be offended by this statement. I was very surprised that the American posters, although really being helpful, find it normal that a college graduate should work two or even three low paid jobs to make a living. But that is sure a matter of mentality. As to the other issue discussed in this thread. I grew up in a country that was eternally grateful to the USA for putting an end to the Nazis and introducing democracy. We learned everything from the USA: to be fair and respect the rights of others, to be generous and help the poor to make a living, to help the ignorant to get an education, to build up a society where everybody has a chance to live in peace and legal and social security. To be alarmed when human rights are violated anywhere because we know that we can be the next victims any time. But today the USA under Bush is regarded as one of the most brutal regimes in the world. Under Bush they abandoned the fight for human rights and introduced torture as a liable means in the alleged fight against terrorism. In all human right reports the USA are always named among other cruel regimes as China, North Korea and a couple of African countries. They created the term "Non Person" to deny people the most basic human rights. People are held in secret places with no lawyers, no legal hearing, no legal court. Now you say you are not responsible because you did not vote for Bush and his approval rate is on an all time low. But isn't that the same lazy attitude you blame Arlene for in the other thread? You are citizens of this beautiful country and you are the ones who have to make the difference. How is it possible that the war criminal Rumsfeld was made defense secretary in the second Bush term without a public outcry? Why are there no demonstrations and why are there no mass emails to congress members and senators? It was possible that Clinton was impeached for lying to the public about an extra marital affair but it is not possible to do something about the clique that ruins your country and other countries? As a German I am blamed for the Nazis wherever I go. Whenever I have a discussion about human rights with people of other countries they will bring it up at some point. I can say that I was not even born, that my parents were small children and my grandfather died in a Nazi prison but the fact remains that it was my country who committed all these crimes and the shame is the same no matter if I contributed or not. The shame that such atrocities could happen in my country and the majority of the people looked away because it was "only" the Jews, the Czechs, the Poles, the French, the Russians... until there was nobody left to defend their own human rights. It's not Anti American to speak out against violations of international law and human rights violations. We are all responsible for this world and the responsibilty does not end in a voting booth. Do not forget that if you do not fight for the rights of other people, nobody will be left to fight for your rights.Barb, you articulated this very well. Thank you. Also, something you said, you are the FIRST person to realize this...which I very much appreciate and respect. Barb wrote ''I was very surprised that the American posters, although really being helpful, find it normal that a college |
Rockyuk 03.12.2005 23:17 |
<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. |
Guy 03.12.2005 23:56 |
John S Stuart wrote:I wasn't talking about terrorism in general, because almost every country in the world has experienced one aspect or another of terror - I was talking about a certain level of terrorism.Guy wrote: Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.I think you may need to revise this Guy. As far as I know, the level of terrorism meted out at the USA tragically occured during the 911 attacks. By comparison, apart from the tragic bombings in London earlier this year, the UK (including Northern Ireland) spent at least 20 years under the shadow of IRA terroism, in part sponsored by US funding. Spain, Greece, Israel, Bali, parts of Africa and even Australia have all been blighted by terrorism in recent times. So to say "few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA", really is either very FAR from the mark indeed - or you know very little regarding the rest of the world. Surely you're not comparing between Spain & USA/Israel/Russia/UK? Besides, people seem to forget that "meted out" means 2,986 dead. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is an unprecedented number in ONE attack! Like it or not, 10 countries badly hurt ARE few of the world... I seriously doubt anyone needs to look at link to remind himself just how many countries in the world are there. |
jcrawford79 04.12.2005 05:33 |
Rockyuk wrote:Very convincing argument.....you've certainly convinced me. And perhaps the rest of Queenzone as well. Hands together for a well articulated statement.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. |
Fairy 04.12.2005 05:49 |
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:Yep, everything is Bush's fault. If it rains, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get laid tonight, it's Bush's fault. If the Eagles lose, well, that's Bush for ya.LOL! The same here in Italy about our President Berlusconi. And the problem is, some really believe it! There's a joke going around about our Communists that goes about like this: |
Serry... 04.12.2005 06:52 |
Fairy wrote: The same here in Italy about our President Berlusconi.I beg pardon, but who is Carlo Ciampi then? ;) P.S. I know only one Italian newspaper: Corriere della Sera. Oh no - and there is another one... About sport... Damned, I forgot the title! |
@ndy38 04.12.2005 07:05 |
Gazzetta Della Sport is better than the Corriere Dello Sport! Down with CDS! I have something against it.... I'm not talking about the Corriere Della Sera btw. |
Serry... 04.12.2005 07:06 |
<font color=black>Andy<font color=red>38 wrote: Gazzetta Della Sport is better than the Corriella Della Sport!Exactly! Gazzetta Della Sport! Yeah... |
Sonia Doris 04.12.2005 07:36 |
And yet... The main problem of this thread was barely touched. Mrs. Cindarlene - go and smell the roses, OUTSIDE, in 3D, maybe 4D. THe thing that your replies are so long, it shows u give them more time then actually seaking a job and a better life. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but that's not exactely the way things are done at least here in Romania... I agree with Mari and P_G of course. :D kiss kiss, SOnia Doris |
Fairy 04.12.2005 08:46 |
Hey Serry! Ciampi is our President of the Republic. Berlusconi is Prime Minister. The most read sports newspaper in Italy is Gazzetta dello Sport. You can even visit it online at link And while we are at it, in a few minutes the soccer games start and if Parma loses we are very likely to go straight to Serie B. SIGH Ciao guys! |
Serry... 04.12.2005 08:58 |
Fairy wrote: Hey Serry! Ciampi is our President of the Republic. Berlusconi is Prime Minister.Yes I know, that's why I was surprised when you called Berlusconi as President! :) Fairy wrote: And while we are at it, in a few minutes the soccer games start and if Parma loses we are very likely to go straight to Serie B.Good luck! |
Fairy 04.12.2005 10:00 |
Well Serry, we call Berlusconi our President, as he is the President of the Council of Ministers. And just so you know, Parma is losing 2 to 1 at the end of the first half SIGH SOB. Thanks for the good wishes, we'll badly need them! Should I start a thread about Italian soccer? HMMM don't think it would be that interesting to most! LOL |
Fairy 04.12.2005 10:02 |
PS. Don't know why my posts don't end up at the bottom of the page LOL. |
@ndy38 04.12.2005 14:12 |
Fairy wrote: Should I start a thread about Italian soccer? HMMM don't think it would be that interesting to most! LOLYes Fairy please do! Juventus won today so i'm very very happy. Parma could be getting Zdenek Zeman as their new manager, if they do, things will look up for them ;) Forza Juve! |
Music Man 04.12.2005 18:46 |
Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. |
Rockyuk 04.12.2005 19:04 |
Music Man wrote:Heres one example:Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. The US went to war in iraq because they claimed iraq had ilegal chemical weapons, then in Iraq they use ilegal chemical weapons on innocent people. link Those people did nothing wrong, just like any other person you walk past in the street. They got burned alive, because of the US government. Bush, and anyone else in the american government or miltary who authorized this should go to court and be punished. As the US are so keen on handing out death and murder, they should pay with their lifes. Please watch the video in that link and read the BBC artical. Bush is a murderer, what the american government do is distgusting, they should pay for their actions. |
Music Man 04.12.2005 20:07 |
Rockyuk wrote:This video is probably too long and a waste of my time, but I suppose I should give it a gander.Music Man wrote:Heres one example: The US went to war in iraq because they claimed iraq had ilegal chemical weapons, then in Iraq they use ilegal chemical weapons on innocent people. link Those people did nothing wrong, just like any other person you walk past in the street. They got burned alive, because of the US government. Bush, and anyone else in the american government or miltary who authorized this should go to court and be punished. As the US are so keen on handing out death and murder, they should pay with their lifes. Please watch the video in that link and read the BBC artical. Bush is a murderer, what the american government do is distgusting, they should pay for their actions.Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. Anyway, from what I gather from your post, collateral damage is simply something that is to be expected, especially when the enemy uses the tactics they do. It's not like, "Hey, look at that guy across the street, how much you wanna bet I can't hit him?" Also, I can't see how a country's military tactics has any bearing on it being the worst country in the world, and how this is an appropriate example of anything. Now, the purposes of these chemical weapons were for the purposes of warfare. It is highly doubtful that, if Iraq had possessed chemical weapons, that they would be used for this purpose. But whatever, war crimes is none of my business, and none of the business of just about anyone living in America. It has no bearing on whether or not we are a good country. You are truly a confused soul. |
Rockyuk 05.12.2005 04:19 |
Music Man wrote:Your the one who's confused, you seem to have mixed up collateral damage, with murder of innocent people. Because thats what it is, those people did not deserve to have their lives taken away, and the US government and military did that.Rockyuk wrote:This video is probably too long and a waste of my time, but I suppose I should give it a gander. Anyway, from what I gather from your post, collateral damage is simply something that is to be expected, especially when the enemy uses the tactics they do. It's not like, "Hey, look at that guy across the street, how much you wanna bet I can't hit him?" Also, I can't see how a country's military tactics has any bearing on it being the worst country in the world, and how this is an appropriate example of anything. Now, the purposes of these chemical weapons were for the purposes of warfare. It is highly doubtful that, if Iraq had possessed chemical weapons, that they would be used for this purpose. But whatever, war crimes is none of my business, and none of the business of just about anyone living in America. It has no bearing on whether or not we are a good country. You are truly a confused soul.Music Man wrote:Heres one example: The US went to war in iraq because they claimed iraq had ilegal chemical weapons, then in Iraq they use ilegal chemical weapons on innocent people. link Those people did nothing wrong, just like any other person you walk past in the street. They got burned alive, because of the US government. Bush, and anyone else in the american government or miltary who authorized this should go to court and be punished. As the US are so keen on handing out death and murder, they should pay with their lifes. Please watch the video in that link and read the BBC artical. Bush is a murderer, what the american government do is distgusting, they should pay for their actions.Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. The US government started an ilegal war, couldnt find the chemical weapons they were looking for/used as an excuse, then burned inocent people alive, using chemical weapons. There is no excuse for that. And you think muder of inocent people dosnt make a bad country? That makes the US government as bad as people like Bin Laden. |
The Mir@cle 05.12.2005 06:15 |
Sonia Doris wrote: And yet... The main problem of this thread was barely touched. Mrs. Cindarlene - go and smell the roses, OUTSIDE, in 3D, maybe 4D. THe thing that your replies are so long, it shows u give them more time then actually seaking a job and a better life. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but that's not exactely the way things are done at least here in Romania... I agree with Mari and P_G of course. :D kiss kiss, SOnia DorisI agree with Son, so I agree also with Mari and P_G. You should invest more time in your future, instead of writing those story's. |
Music Man 05.12.2005 07:41 |
Rockyuk wrote:So what you are arguing is that manslaughter - no, not even manslaughter - accidental, negligence-free human death caused, in some manner, by another human, is indiscernable from, say, murder in the first degree? There IS a difference. Whatever our soldiers are doing overseas is even more excusable than manslaughter; killing or not killing a person (any person, as combatants are often indiscernable from civilians) could be worth their lives.Music Man wrote:Your the one who's confused, you seem to have mixed up collateral damage, with murder of innocent people. Because thats what it is, those people did not deserve to have their lives taken away, and the US government and military did that. The US government started an ilegal war, couldnt find the chemical weapons they were looking for/used as an excuse, then burned inocent people alive, using chemical weapons. There is no excuse for that. And you think muder of inocent people dosnt make a bad country? That makes the US government as bad as people like Bin Laden.Rockyuk wrote:This video is probably too long and a waste of my time, but I suppose I should give it a gander. Anyway, from what I gather from your post, collateral damage is simply something that is to be expected, especially when the enemy uses the tactics they do. It's not like, "Hey, look at that guy across the street, how much you wanna bet I can't hit him?" Also, I can't see how a country's military tactics has any bearing on it being the worst country in the world, and how this is an appropriate example of anything. Now, the purposes of these chemical weapons were for the purposes of warfare. It is highly doubtful that, if Iraq had possessed chemical weapons, that they would be used for this purpose. But whatever, war crimes is none of my business, and none of the business of just about anyone living in America. It has no bearing on whether or not we are a good country. You are truly a confused soul.Music Man wrote:Heres one example: The US went to war in iraq because they claimed iraq had ilegal chemical weapons, then in Iraq they use ilegal chemical weapons on innocent people. link Those people did nothing wrong, just like any other person you walk past in the street. They got burned alive, because of the US government. Bush, and anyone else in the american government or miltary who authorized this should go to court and be punished. As the US are so keen on handing out death and murder, they should pay with their lifes. Please watch the video in that link and read the BBC artical. Bush is a murderer, what the american government do is distgusting, they should pay for their actions.Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. A |
Music Man 05.12.2005 07:55 |
Perhaps attention was sought, however I can hardly blame Arlene for any of her actions. Her actions are completely logical and totally consistent with typical human behavior, and in this case, it is a coping mechanism. Clearly she is dissatisfied with her current state of being, so the easiest way to cope with it is through public display. It is much easier to deal with one's problems if it is so that another person might know and understand them. Now, the best thing for you to do is to sympathize with her situation, and acknowledge that you care about her current plight. Incendiary remarks, disrespectful or hostile comments, and all of the like will not help you, and they will certainly not help her. I can't say that I always abide by this rules of conduct, but I will acknowledge that they are the best rules to follow. I suppose it is a true test of maturity to be able to follow this path consistently. |
Music Man 05.12.2005 12:50 |
EvilTwin wrote: I don't really think that posts like this are anyplace for kids who really don't beans about politics, right wing, left wing, who cares... |
jcrawford79 05.12.2005 22:52 |
Rockyuk wrote:I can relate to what you are saying. I feel as strongly about bigots, ignorant people, and people who make profound statements about things which they obviously know nothing about, as you feel about murderers. And yet, I don't call for your execution. You apparently have very poor knowledge of war and diplomacy. Study these things well, and then, perhaps, you can return to this thread with a sensible post. Although I wish this war had never begun, I am very aware of the fact that civilian casualties is a unfortunate certainty in wartime.Music Man wrote:Heres one example: The US went to war in iraq because they claimed iraq had ilegal chemical weapons, then in Iraq they use ilegal chemical weapons on innocent people. link Those people did nothing wrong, just like any other person you walk past in the street. They got burned alive, because of the US government. Bush, and anyone else in the american government or miltary who authorized this should go to court and be punished. As the US are so keen on handing out death and murder, they should pay with their lifes. Please watch the video in that link and read the BBC artical. Bush is a murderer, what the american government do is distgusting, they should pay for their actions.Rockyuk wrote:Attention all Queenzoners, I present to you two of the most biased, moronic posters on the entire forum. Please stand behind the yellow line and refrain from feeding them, it is for your own safety.<font color="blue">Maruga_Mercury</font> wrote: USA is the most horrible country of the world. And you call yourselves "America", and America includes South and Central America, so YOU ARE NOT AMERICA. With your president, who is an ASSHOLE and KILLER, your country doesn't deserve the name of "the best country of the world" 'cause it is not. If your government take care of people's welfare, and don't invent wars, your country would be better than now. I'm a Social Worker in my country (Chile), and i know what i'm talking about. Arlene: i hope you can fin a decent job, and if you don't, its Bush fault. Cheers.This guy is very correct. The US is proper shit. Worst country ever. |
jasen101 06.12.2005 03:41 |
How come every topic ends up with a Bush discussion? |
Sonia Doris 06.12.2005 04:04 |
jasen101 wrote: How come every topic ends up with a Bush discussion?I was asking myself the same question... |
Serry... 06.12.2005 07:45 |
"If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier." "To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic" I hope it doesn't bother too much our American friends that we use Arabic numbers, instead of Latin... ;-) |
Haystacks Calhoun 06.12.2005 08:58 |
jasen101 wrote: How come every topic ends up with a Bush discussion?Because people, by and large, are idiots. On both sides. However, you will find, on most sites, that the Bush bashers are the ones making ignorant, and frankly idiotic comments, such as what we have seen here..... I can perfectly well understand people not likiing the guy, but some of the conclusions that Bush haters dream up are rather odd to say the least. |
Bobby_brown 06.12.2005 10:11 |
I have to read more often the Personal forum, you learn a lot about people! Just a picture of the world really,... Take care |
Music Man 06.12.2005 16:39 |
Serry<h6>Inventor of terrible English wrote: "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier." "To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic" I hope it doesn't bother too much our American friends that we use Arabic numbers, instead of Latin... ;-)And thank God. I, for one, have no complaints using base 10 Arabic. Haystacks Calhoun wrote:I must agree to that. Anyway, the reason Bush discussions are so prevalent is because most other topics discussed on this site are not nearly as exciting or fun.jasen101 wrote: How come every topic ends up with a Bush discussion?Because people, by and large, are idiots. On both sides. However, you will find, on most sites, that the Bush bashers are the ones making ignorant, and frankly idiotic comments, such as what we have seen here..... I can perfectly well understand people not likiing the guy, but some of the conclusions that Bush haters dream up are rather odd to say the least. |
deleted user 06.12.2005 17:41 |
Greenday sang: DON"T WANNA BE AN AMERICAN IDIOT!!!!! flash00. wrote: hmmm... charitable guy, Dan Bern Sang: its my courtry 2 sometimes i gotta remind myself its my courtry 2 Queen sang: Death on two legs[quote]Dan Bern Sang: bush must be defeatedand dey you go live by it end of disscussion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
deleted user 06.12.2005 17:50 |
any one who supports bush needs to relize that his approval rating is getting close to his daughters age 23 yikes its currenmtly the invere 32 ouch if you still support him listen to the fowwowing songs that he can relate to my courtry 2 (dan bern) american idiot (greenday) (the title albums for the two previos songs) death on 2 legs i want to break free nowhere man (beatles) and the humorus one don't sit down (bowie) [see if you sit down you'll sit on a bomb and ohh nevermind.] |
Music Man 06.12.2005 19:39 |
It's strange how I have no doubts whatsoever that you are, indeed, twelve years old. Now what exactly did you just say in your last two posts? |
Rockyuk 06.12.2005 20:32 |
for me to poop on wrote: any one who supports bush needs to relize that his approval rating is getting close to his daughters age 23 yikes its currenmtly the invere 32 ouch if you still support him listen to the fowwowing songs that he can relate to my courtry 2 (dan bern) american idiot (greenday) (the title albums for the two previos songs) death on 2 legs i want to break free nowhere man (beatles) and the humorus one don't sit down (bowie) [see if you sit down you'll sit on a bomb and ohh nevermind.]How about Bob Dylan - Masters Of War? Yea, 12's about right... |
deleted user 07.12.2005 18:52 |
John S Stuart wrote: Sorry Haystacks, And I guess I may be picking you up wrong here, (in that case I apologise in advance), but America is NOT the only 'good' country in the world - which is something Americans seem to forget.I agree. Even though I'm American, I don't really like it here. |
Music Man 08.12.2005 12:31 |
<B><font color=black>*39*</B> wrote:Come to New Jersey. We rock.John S Stuart wrote: Sorry Haystacks, And I guess I may be picking you up wrong here, (in that case I apologise in advance), but America is NOT the only 'good' country in the world - which is something Americans seem to forget.I agree. Even though I'm American, I don't really like it here. Eh, I wouldn't worry about it too much, you're probably too young to 'like' a country anyway. But whenever you get old enough to enjoy and really get into shopping, you'll love New Jersey. |