John S Stuart 01.11.2005 11:49 |
Ultimate Collection: 1980 (Part 1: The Game) Exactly as it says in the title. I apologise for any careless omissions or errors in advance, (I have proof-read but I have been restricted to one-handed work only). Please feel free to contribute and to push the boundaries forwards. (Also, if used/reproduced elsewhere - an acknowledgement would be courteous) Foreword: Perhaps one of the most difficult sessions to recreate, as so many rumors of unreleased material surrounded the recording. The fact that the master tape has since been lost or stolen, has only fuelled the mythologies. Here I have dealt in absolute facts, and will leave the anecdotes for open discussion. Certainly, left over Roger Taylor ideas/tracks ended up on “Fun In Space”, and the 1991 Brian May/Queen release “Lost Opportunity” (CDS Version I'm Going Slightly Mad CDS: Queen 17) is also supposed to stem from this session. (Finally, YES: Play The Game – Andy Gibb version DOES exist!) The Ultimate Collection: 1980 (Part 2: Flash and Beyond), will soon follow 1980 Queen: The Game UK CD - EMI CDP 7 46213 2 Recorded: Musicland Studios, June/July 1979 and February to May 1980 Released: UK 30th June 1980, US 30th June 1980 Produced by Queen and Mack Engineered by Mack Cover Concept by Queen This album includes the first appearance of a Synthesizer (an Oberheim OBX) on a Queen album. Play The Game Album Version - Game: EMI CDP 7 46213 2 Karaoke Instrumental - Japan Toshiba EMI TOLW - 3249.50 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 Andy Gibb/Freddie Duet - Unreleased Promotional Video (Original 4x3 TV Ratio) - Greatest Flix I & II: Pioneer PLMPD 01171 Promotional Video (Widescreen) - Greatest Video Hits: Parlophone 7243 4 92944 9 3 Dragon Attack Album Version - Game: EMI CDP 7 46213 2 Rough Demo Percussion Mix - Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc 1991 RAK & Jack Benson Remix - Game: US 1991 Hollywood HR-61063-2 1991 Dragon's Return 7:10 Remix - In Memories Of Freddie Mercury: RM-CD 01 1998 eYe Full Instrumental - Electronic Arts DDE05501 101S 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 Starlicks Video Edit - Starlicks Video Another One Bites The Dust Album Version - Game: EMI CDP 7 46213 2 Percussion Version - Home Mini-Disc Karaoke Instrumental - Japan Toshiba EMI TOLW - 3249.50 1980 US 12” Flower Power Segued Disco Mix - Happy Margo AP 001 1986 Dakeyne Disco Club Remix 5:35 - Dakeyne DMC 43/42 August 1986 Mixes 1992 US Dave Ogilvie Promo Alternative Mix - Freakshow: US 1992 Hollywood PRCD 10190-2 1992 US CD Long-Dusted B-Boy 10:37 - Hollywood Basic Beats Sampler HB-61286-2 1999 US DJ 12” Les Massengale Ultimix 6:28 - Home Mini-Disc 2000 KLM Club Mix 9:56 - Home Mini-Disc 2000 KLM Bootleg Dub Mix 8:42 - Home Mini-Disc 2000 KLM Bootleg Vocal Mix 9.57 - Home Mini-Disc 2000 KLM Bootleg House Mix 9.41 - Home Mini-Disc 2001 Planet Perfecto (Original Mix) - Perfecto Summer Sampler Vinyl 2001 Planet Perfecto (Extended Vocal Mix) - Meet Techno Crew 2001 2001 Planet Perfecto (Radio Edit) - Home Mini-Disc 2003 Instrumental Version - Home Mini-Disc US DJ 12" Queen Bee Mix 4:02 - Dead Wax US CD Metromix DJ Remix - Home Mini-Disc 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 2000 Bootleg Vocal Mix - Wanted Super Sound Mix - Wanted Party Mix - Wanted Promotional Video (Original 4x3 TV Ratio) - Greatest Flix I & II: Pioneer PLMPD 01171 Promotional Video (Widescreen) - Greatest Video Hits: Parlophone 7243 4 92944 9 3 Legs & Co Top Of The Pops BBC TV: 25 Sept 1980 - Unreleased: Home Video Need Your Loving Tonight Album Version - Game: EMI CDP 7 46213 2 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 Crazy Little Thing Called Love Album Version - Game: EMI CDP 7 46213 2 Karaoke Instrumental - Japan Toshiba EMI TOLW - 3249.50 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 Guitar Solo - Guita |
Lord Fickle 01.11.2005 12:11 |
John S Stuart wrote: Rock It Mack 2000: Roger Taylor wanted to Sing Rock It, While Mack and Brian suggested Freddie should do it. Both versions were recorded, John voted for Roger, Brian voted for Freddie, so they decided to put Freddie in the intro and Roger on the remainder of the track.That would be sooo cool to hear Freddie singing the full version. I have it live from somewhere or other, and he sings it brilliantly! |
Chaka 01.11.2005 12:32 |
Is "Sandbox" actually related to "Coming Soon"? according to queenpicturehall.com: "It was however never used for a released track and was shelved to be never used again." I took that to mean it was a stand-alone piece, although, not having heard it myself, I couldn't verify this one way or the other. |
goodco 01.11.2005 12:57 |
Is that the little snippet that appears in 'No Violins'? btw, John, when are you going to get some backing so that you could put out a book that would proudly stand alongside the fine work that Mark Lewisohn and Mark Spizer have done with The Beatles? kudos, sir |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 13:04 |
goodco wrote: Is that the little snippet that appears in 'No Violins'? btw, John, when are you going to get some backing so that you could put out a book that would proudly stand alongside the fine work that Mark Lewisohn and Mark Spizer have done with The Beatles? kudos, sirThank you for your kind thoughts. Never thought about the "No Violin" snippet before, I guess I need to go back and listen! I would love to write a book in the style of Mark Lewisohn, but, unfortunately, I have no access to the archives. However, I guess I few requests to Queen Productions Ltd, couldn't hurt!!! |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 14:54 |
To Serry: 1001 apologies. I stupidly forgot to add... "It's A Beautiful Day 1995 Album Version - Made In Heaven: Parlophone CDPCSD 167 1998 eYe 1:34 Instrumental - Electronic Arts DDE05501 101S CD Single Mix 3:58 - Heaven For Everyone CDS: CDQUEENS 21 1980 The Game: Demo Version - Unreleased: Wanted" + the 2005 remix by Ross Robertson and Sergey Tarakanov (DJ Koma), now officially available on ROTC DVD. Will you EVER be able to forgive moi? |
Serry... 01.11.2005 15:10 |
If I'd be Tarakanov - no, but I'm other Sergey - so that's okay :) P.S. A capella version of PTG was not for UC, more for fun. |
Lester Burnham 01.11.2005 15:27 |
This is like Christmas morning. I realize you said that you're dealing with absolutes and not mythologies, but I'm fairly sure that 'Magic Is Loose' was recorded by Queen for The Game, and maybe even 'No Violins' (but, judging by its similarity to 'Rock It (Prime Jive)', its omission from the album was understandable). John also mentioned that 'Lost Opportunity' may have been started during these sessions, and while I'm not disputing that, it's also very likely that it remained unfinished until the Innuendo sessions when Brian dusted it off and the band re-recorded it. The proof that the 1980 version is not the released version stems from the production credits: Produced by Queen / David Richards. The production also sounds more akin to Innuendo than the stripped back sound on The Game, but maybe the germ of the idea was started and then put away. Also, wasn't 'Soul Brother' recorded during these sessions? |
Mercuryworks 01.11.2005 16:48 |
Alright John s Stuart's 80 UC Thanks. Beautiful as always |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 17:49 |
Lester Burnham wrote: This is like Christmas morning. ...but I'm fairly sure that 'Magic Is Loose' was recorded by Queen for The Game... Also, wasn't 'Soul Brother' recorded during these sessions?Thanks for the praise, but personally, I think I would prefer Christmas morning!!! ;-) "Magic Is Loose": Yes - I have heard this too. To be fair, it is no great surprise, as there was only a few months between "The Game" (Released: 30th June 1980) and Roger's solo LP "Fun In Space" (Released: 6 April 1981). Nevertheless, no matter how much I would like to add this to the list, is there any REAL evidence other than anecdotal? "Soul Brother" I will add to "Hot Space" as the b-side to "Under Pressure", but here's some fuel to add to the debate. "Soul Brother" was written as both a spoof and a pastiche of earlier Queen tracks. Therefore we find references (amongst others) to "my best friend", "my champion", "he will rock you", "keep yourself alive", and "somebody He can love". So why include a line like "When you're under pressure feeling under pressure", BEFORE the track "Under Pressure" was written? Surely this would place it more in the "Hot Space" camp than "The Game"? |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 18:10 |
Serry...<h6>The Negative QZer wrote: If I'd be Tarakanov - no, but I'm other Sergey - so that's okay :) P.S. A capella version of PTG was not for UC, more for fun.Oh well, I got my Sergey's mixed-up, an easy mistake to make! The A capella version of "Play The Game" certainly is a bit of fun, and nice to have. I think most readers will know that this track comes from the centre channel of the DVD Audio, (as does many other remixes), so hopefully the reference: 2003 DVD Audio 5.1 Surround Version(s) - EMI 592 7809 should cover all of these. |
Lester Burnham 01.11.2005 18:27 |
John S Stuart wrote: Thanks for the praise, but personally, I think I would prefer Christmas morning!!! ;-) "Magic Is Loose": Yes - I have heard this too. To be fair, it is no great surprise, as there was only a few months between "The Game" (Released: 30th June 1980) and Roger's solo LP "Fun In Space" (Released: 6 April 1981). Nevertheless, no matter how much I would like to add this to the list, is there any REAL evidence other than anecdotal? "Soul Brother" I will add to "Hot Space" as the b-side to "Under Pressure", but here's some fuel to add to the debate. "Soul Brother" was written as both a spoof and a pastiche of earlier Queen tracks. Therefore we find references (amongst others) to "my best friend", "my champion", "he will rock you", "keep yourself alive", and "somebody He can love". So why include a line like "When you're under pressure feeling under pressure", BEFORE the track "Under Pressure" was written? Surely this would place it more in the "Hot Space" camp than "The Game"?That is a good point, and one which I've thought about. The only thing I can think of is that maybe, as a backing track, the song was recorded during sessions for The Game, and maybe even with a guide vocal. Then, when it was decided to use the song as the B-side of 'Under Pressure', Freddie re-recorded his vocal to include that little reference. I've read in many books that 'Soul Brother' was recorded during The Game sessions, so I suppose this is what I came to believe - plus, the production sounds more akin to The Game than it does to Hot Space. I would love for any kind of evidence to support either side, but the argument above is the most logical I can think of, even if it's not the most practical. |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 18:56 |
Lester Burnham wrote:Again, being fair, I have read the same books, and they all seem to trot out this "The Game" mantra, but, when you look closer, they don't ever supply references or supporting evidences of any kind.John S Stuart wrote: "Soul Brother" was written as both a spoof and a pastiche of earlier Queen tracks... So why include a line like "When you're under pressure feeling under pressure", BEFORE the track "Under Pressure" was written? Surely this would place it more in the "Hot Space" camp than "The Game"?I've read in many books that 'Soul Brother' was recorded during The Game sessions, so I suppose this is what I came to believe - plus, the production sounds more akin to The Game than it does to Hot Space. Being honest, (and a bit of a coward) I copped out! I only include "Soul Brother" as the "Under Pressure" b-side - because I honestly don't know where it fits in between the two albums - but no one can ever argue with it's b-side status. But for me, the main event has to be, did Roger record "Magic Is Loose" for "The Game", and does a Queen demo version actually exist. Oh those vicious rumours! |
Lester Burnham 01.11.2005 20:04 |
John S Stuart wrote: Again, being fair, I have read the same books, and they all seem to trot out this "The Game" mantra, but, when you look closer, they don't ever supply references or supporting evidences of any kind. Being honest, (and a bit of a coward) I copped out! I only include "Soul Brother" as the "Under Pressure" b-side - because I honestly don't know where it fits in between the two albums - but no one can ever argue with it's b-side status. But for me, the main event has to be, did Roger record "Magic Is Loose" for "The Game", and does a Queen demo version actually exist. Oh those vicious rumours!Personally, I would've included 'Soul Brother' in the Hot Space section, as well, because there is one certainty - it was released as the B-side of 'Under Pressure', which is classified as a Hot Space track - and one oft-repeated myth - that it was recorded during sessions for The Game. It MAY have been recorded during The Game, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but it may ALSO have been recorded during the preliminary Hot Space sessions in the summer of 1981. The only person who would know for sure, as well as the information regarding 'Magic Is Loose' - our dear archivist friend - wouldn't tell us so as not to compromise any surprises the fictional box sets possess. Because yes, Queen fans wouldn't buy that box set knowing that 'Magic Is Loose' and 'Soul Brother' were recorded during sessions for The Game. Personally, that would just about ruin it for me, too. |
Sebastian 01.11.2005 20:42 |
> So why include a line like "When you're under pressure feeling under pressure", BEFORE the track "Under Pressure" was written? Because it MIGHT not be a direct reference to Under Pressure. How many songs are titled "he won't let you down", "the man with the most", "how does he do it" and so on? Brian sort of stated in his soapbox that it was from The Game sessions. He could of course be wrong as when he said Master Stroke had been at Wessex Studios or when he said he'd played koto in Teo, but the point is that the fact "under pressure" is mentioned in the lyrics doesn't neccesarily imply they were paying tribute to "their" Under Pressure, it could have easily been a coincidence (or is Dragon Attack a reference to Back Chat?) |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 20:50 |
Sebastian wrote: > Because it MIGHT not be a direct reference to Under Pressure. How many songs are titled "he won't let you down", "the man with the most", "how does he do it" and so on?Seb: I agree with you, BUT, it MIGHT also BE a direct reference to their "Under Pressure". That is why I specifically wrote: "...I copped out! I only include "Soul Brother" as the "Under Pressure" b-side - because I honestly don't know where it fits in between the two albums..." As Lester said: The only person who would know for sure... wouldn't tell us... not to compromise any surprises the fictional box sets possess." (That and answering inane questions on Freddie's sexuality seems to be our limits). In the meantime, in the absence of more solid evidence, all I can do (like your good-self) and everyone else who reads this thread) is speculate. |
John S Stuart 01.11.2005 20:58 |
Sebastian wrote: > So why include a line like "When you're under pressure feeling under pressure", BEFORE the track "Under Pressure" was written? Because it MIGHT not be a direct reference to Under Pressure. How many songs are titled "he won't let you down", "the man with the most", "how does he do it" and so on?Seb: Remember I AGREE with you, but let's look at the lyrics. God bless my soul here he comes now The man with the most how does he do it? Sure he's got style he's so heavy He's a trip can do anything Anything anything He's my soul brother He's my best friend he's my champion And he will rock you rock you rock you Because he's the saviour of the universe He can make you keep yourself alive Make yourself alive Oooh brother because he's somebody somebody He can love He's my soul brother When you're under pressure feeling under pressure Yeah pressure yeah pressure He won't let you down When you're under pressure Oh feeling under pressure yeah pressure So he won't let you down My brother won't let you down He won't he won't he won't let you down He can do anything anything anything He's my soul brother Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Oooh soul brother anything (soul brother) Anything (soul brother) anything (soul brother) He's my soul brother brother brother brother brother Anything (soul brother) anything (soul brother) anything (soul brother) He's my soul brother Soul brother he can do anything He can do anything Because he's my soul brother How many Queen songs (and references to songs) can you find? The more you find, the more likely it seems that the phrase "under pressure" IS a direct reference to THEIR "Under Pressure". God bless my soul = God Save The Queen/Jesus? The man with the most = Man From Manhattan/Leroy Brown? Sure he's got style he's so heavy = Leroy Brown He's my best friend he's my champion = Your My Best Friend + We Are The Champions. And he will rock you rock you rock you = We Will Rock You. Because he's the saviour of the universe = Flash Gordon. He can make you keep yourself alive = Keep Yourself Alive. Oooh brother because he's somebody somebody He can love = Somebody To Love. So if the exercise is to fit as many Queen songs into the track as possible, "Under Pressure" HAD to be previously written! But this is SPECULATION only - as the truth is I just DON'T KNOW! |
Sebastian 02.11.2005 06:03 |
Yes of course, very probably you're right, all I meant is that it wasn't an absolute "truth" whatsoever. But, for what it's worth, I too think it's an '81 track instead of '80, which would indeed prove that Dr Wig's not always right. |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 10:48 |
Sebastian wrote: Yes of course, very probably you're right, all I meant is that it wasn't an absolute "truth" whatsoever. But, for what it's worth, I too think it's an '81 track instead of '80, which would indeed prove that Dr Wig's not always right.Something else I have just read Seb: Because he's the saviour of the universe = Flash Gordon. So this song "Soul Brother" references BOTH "Flash Gordon" and "Under Pressure", (both released AFTER "The Game"), surely this is too much of a coincidence? However, this is still SPECULATION as I am not sure when it was recorded to be honest, and you are as correct in your assumptions, as I am in mine. |
goodco 02.11.2005 13:36 |
re: The 'Sandbox' and 'Coming Soon' tie ins. I erroneously made reference to some of it possibly appearing in 'No Violins'. I should have stated 'Good Times Are Now'. My mistake. |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 14:06 |
goodco wrote: re: The 'Sandbox' and 'Coming Soon' tie ins. I erroneously made reference to some of it possibly appearing in 'No Violins'. I should have stated 'Good Times Are Now'. My mistake.I must make a confession, when I wrote: "Never thought about the "No Violin" snippet before, I guess I need to go back and listen!", I haven't actually done that yet! I will now listen to "Goodtimes Are Now" instead, so thanks for that. This is what I think Queenzone does well. Fans coming together and sharing ideas. It doesn't really matter if these ideas are absolute "truths", but the fact that we are happy to sit down and "barter", is to me, what it is all about really. So thanks to you for bringing this up. I only wish this was a virtual pub, and that way, we could have a more social atmosphere, but hey, we can't have it all! |
Lester Burnham 02.11.2005 14:11 |
If we were discussing this in a bar, John, I would probably be passed out in the hallway leading to the men's room with a bottle of wine in my hand. I'd prefer to do this sober! :-P |
Lord Fickle 02.11.2005 15:25 |
I've never heard of any of these titles being talked about. How come No Violins, Good Times Are Now, Sandbox (crap song title, by the way!) have never been mentioned in the various 'demos and unreleased stuff' threads that so often appear on these forums? Or have I just missed them? |
Lester Burnham 02.11.2005 15:28 |
'No Violins' and 'Good Times Are Now' are just speculation - we're not 100% sure that these songs were recorded. And, whoever heard 'Sandbox' (which was at one of the conventions last year) closely related the sound of the track to 'Good Times Are Now'. |
Lord Fickle 02.11.2005 16:00 |
So, is there any evidence that they actually existed in any form at all? Or are they just titles that someone bandied about, and the rumours snowballed? |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 16:17 |
Lord Fickle wrote: So, is there any evidence that they actually existed in any form at all? Or are they just titles that someone bandied about, and the rumours snowballed?Good question, and that's why I have always given the evidence. Therefore, we can take "Sandbox" as an absolute: Sandbox (Coming Soon – early version) GB IQFC convention Nov 2004: Unreleased Sandbox (Instrumental Jam) Sandbox - Unreleased In otherwords, it was Greg Brooks who played the disc at the International Queen Fan Club Convention, Nov 2004. If you re-read the original posting, I always give clear evidence when available. Although we know for definite that the remainder of Roger's unused "The Game" tracks went on to appear on his solo album "Fun In Space", we are not too sure if "Good Times Are Now" is one of those tracks for sure. Other rumours include "Magic Is Lose". But whatever re-jected "Game" tracks are on "Fun In Space", it would seem logical that there are Queen demo versions. This does not automatically mean that Freddie, sang these, but it has been rumoured for years - that he did. My own criteria for this thread has been "if in doubt, throw it out". So although it is fun to conjecture, you will notice that none of this appears on my original posting. |
Lord Fickle 02.11.2005 16:51 |
Fair enough, John. Thanks for the clarification, as far as can be certain. I'm sure we would all love to discover some of these 'speculative' demos, but the probably truth is, sadly, that even if they ever did exist, the chances of them now being found in a dusty suitcase, in someone's attic, are pretty remote. Hell, they've even managed to lose some of the original tapes of the material which was released! I think, if I was in a band as great as Queen, I would want to leave some hidden treasure behind, for when I'm dead and gone. I wonder if that ever crossed their minds? |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 17:04 |
From the rumours I've heard: Crazy Little Thing Called Love, rumored piano version, 1979 Victory, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980 Magic Is Loose, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980 Just need to await and see. I was actually waiting for someone else to come in and help me out, but it seems no help is "out-there!" |
Chaka 02.11.2005 17:53 |
John S Stuart wrote: From the rumours I've heard: Crazy Little Thing Called Love, rumored piano version, 1979 Victory, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980 Magic Is Loose, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980well since that seems to be cut-and-pasted from my "unreleased songs" post, I feel obligated to stick my head in here and say no, I do not have any evidence that any of these tracks actually exist, that list was simply a compilation of speculation from this board and other corners of the Queen internet community that I'd noted and kept track of. I do hope I hadn't misled anyone into thinking that I had or had heard these pieces but I thought I was clear that that portion of the list was made up of "rumored" bits and not "confirmed" ones. |
Lord Fickle 02.11.2005 18:27 |
Furthering the Soul Brother / Under Pressure speculation, I suppose it could be possible that Soul Brother was written first, and that it inspired the song Under Pressure to then be written...? Unlikely, but not impossible. |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 18:52 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Furthering the Soul Brother / Under Pressure speculation, I suppose it could be possible that Soul Brother was written first, and that it inspired the song Under Pressure to then be written...? Unlikely, but not impossible.True, but how does that explain the "Flash Gordon" references? "Because he's the saviour of the universe" = Flash Gordon. So "Soul Brother" references BOTH "Flash Gordon" and "Under Pressure", (both released AFTER "The Game"), surely this is too much of a coincidence? |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 19:03 |
Chaka wrote:Thanks for clearing that up Chaka.John S Stuart wrote: From the rumours I've heard: Crazy Little Thing Called Love, rumored piano version, 1979 Victory, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980 Magic Is Loose, Queen version from The Game sessions, 1980...since that seems to be cut-and-pasted from my "unreleased songs" post, I feel obligated to stick my head in here and say no, I do not have any evidence that any of these tracks actually exist, that list was simply a compilation of speculation from this board and other corners of the Queen internet community that I'd noted and kept track of. I do hope I hadn't misled anyone into thinking that I had or had heard these pieces but I thought I was clear that that portion of the list was made up of "rumored" bits and not "confirmed" ones. Can I assure you that the above "rumour-list" was not cut and pasted, but like your own notes was taken from various sources. If however, it was your notes which I originally copied this information from, then I apologise for not citing you as source. Usually, I do not accept singularly sourced material, so I must have secondary confirmation, or I would not have said so. For example, the idea of a "Crazy Little Thing... piano demo" stems from a Freddie Mercury interview, and the Michael Jackson "Victory" collaboration, I thought was common knowledge. Finally, as you can see, I did not use these notes in my opening thread, and I have made clear that these are only rumoured versions in any case. Again, I apologise for any offence, and I am quite happy for others to take the credit they so richly deserve, but honestly, in this case, I did not know that those "rumours" came specifically from you, and any omission of credit was not deliberate. |
Lester Burnham 02.11.2005 19:36 |
I thought that 'Victory' was recorded by Michael and Freddie in 1983? At least, that was the timeframe I gathered. Maybe I'm wrong. And what exactly did Freddie say about a piano version of 'Crazy'? Like, was the guitar part played on the piano, or would it sound more like the live versions? I find THAT intriguing! |
Chaka 02.11.2005 20:07 |
no offense taken at all John, I was not the original "source" of those rumors so to speak after all, as you mentioned the Crazy Little Thing idea came from a Freddie interview and the idea of Victory probably came from Ron B's queenpicturehall "an unreleased Queen song from the early 80's. Never finished and some time later re-worked with just Freddie and Michael Jackson. A few good takes should exist of this song." I just wanted to verify that I was not, in any case, implying that I had any substantial evidence of these tracks existing, lest I be accused of "misleading" the Queenzone community. I have no problem at all with my "rumor list" being used in further discussions on this board, especially in the unlikely event that someone actually can confirm the existance (or lack thereof) of one or two of them, I'm as eager to know the truth as anyone else! |
Sebastian 02.11.2005 20:16 |
> For example, the idea of a "Crazy Little Thing... piano demo" stems from a Freddie Mercury interview The interview in question was badly misunderstood. Fred mentioned having composed CLTCL in a bath, then mentioned dragging a piano to his bedside but he was then speaking about something completely different. He didn't at any moment say or imply that there was a version of CLTCL on piano, let alone that he had composed it in one (although I know you're not saying so, but just for the record). > and the Michael Jackson "Victory" collaboration, I thought was common knowledge. Indeed Fred mentioned in his famous '84 interview in Munich that Victory was written by both. So in case it's from Game sessions then it means that Fred & Jacko had more than one studio meeting, which is not impossible. |
John S Stuart 02.11.2005 20:54 |
Chaka: No problems at all Sir, and I think that if ever your "rumour list" needed discussion, then this is the very thread to do it in. I do not think that anyone is willing misleading the Queenzone community - provided we have made it perfectly clear that we are NOT talking in absolutes - and that is why none of this later information has appeared in the opening post. Seb: The Freddie Interview. I always "read" this as Freddie saying he composed the song outside the studio, and took the demo into the studio at a later date. I also believe he said that he was a poor guitarist (I paraphrase) and that both he and Mack, via multi-tracks, were able to lay down the basic backing track without Brian, and that Freddie loved the look on Brian's face when he played the studio tape back to him. Consequently, all Brian had to do, was add the Telecaster solo to round the track off. If, the above is true, does it suggest both a home demo, and non-Brian studio versions, may still exist? Seb: How do you explain the "Flash Gordon" references? "Because he's the saviour of the universe" = Flash Gordon. So "Soul Brother" references BOTH "Flash Gordon" and "Under Pressure", (both released AFTER "The Game"), surely this is too much of a coincidence? Lester: You are correct about a 1983 "birth", but we are speculating on a 1980 "conception". I know this is not a satisfactory answer, but without any other reliable sources, it is the best I can offer. Sorry. If I repeat what I said earlier in the thread, there are some things which Queenzone does well, which we seem to overlook for spamming and other negatives - which is a shame really, because at the end of the day, this is the sort of meaty discussion I really enjoy, as I think you guys are very well informed, and from that, we all learn from each other. |
Sebastian 03.11.2005 01:38 |
As I said before, I too *think* Soul Brother is from 1981. To be fair - and not intending to be against you whatsoever - the Flash project, as far as I'm concerned, was conceived parallel to The Game, not entirely "after". But yes, we'd both overlooked that before and indeed I stand corrected. It all means that once again Dr May's memory is rather odd - and that, in my book, weakens the "absolute" value of other of his statements like when he said that the three of them did the "very very frightening me" soprano, or when he said John came up with the UP bass riff. The famous confusing quote about Crazy is: "I wrote it in the bath. I actually dragged an upright piano to my bedside once. I've been known to scribble lyrics in the middle of the night without putting the light on" As cleared before here (not by me) Fred mentioned having composed the track in the bath and then he moved on and told about other songwriting experiences but he didn't mean or imply that he had written it in upright piano. I'd appreciate if you've got any exact transcription of "your" version of the story (no offence implied, just a request in order to get to a clearer outcome), since "mine" is completely different. The entire multi-track exercise to get the acoustic part done and Brian's surprise look sounds utterly absurd to me considering that: - Listening to the DTS mixes, it's more than obvious that the acoustic is just one take, not a combination of those - Fred wasn't a lousy guitarist, he always said that sort of jokingly and (personal opinion here) perhaps to avoid fans getting too high expectations. But a six-chord song wasn't an Everest for him, he could easily record it without much trouble. The piano intro of Two Legs is another story. - Roger said when interviewd for In The Studio (easy to get for most of us at a hub or wherever) that Fred came up with the song, and showed it to John and himself, they then recorded it in the studio in a half an hour session. No home demos were mentioned at all, the story - as Roger told it - is that they went straight to the backing track and that's one of the reasons it sounded fresh (the other being, they were bladdered). I * think * he confirms part of that in the GVH Audio Commentary. - Brian had already seen and listened Fred playing guitar loads of times. He even told later on how Fred used to play Ogre Battle quite fastly. |
Lester Burnham 03.11.2005 01:47 |
Honestly, I highly doubt that Freddie would downplay his guitar expertise to prevent fans's hopes from getting too high. That doesn't click right with me. I personally think that Freddie knew, in his mind, what he wanted to play on guitar, but figured that there were already three more adept guitarists who could play it technically better, so why should he play guitar? There's a quote on your website where John mentioned in 1982 that all of them played guitar on the album (Hot Space). I'm of the belief that Freddie only played guitar on 'Crazy' and nothing else, and that John's quote meant that they all HAVE played guitar on their albums. No doubt that some kind of mention would've been made over the years of Freddie playing guitar on any track other than 'Crazy'. Regardless - I'm getting off track. It's very possible that he did record a home demo of just him on guitar and vocals, probably just for a reference. He may have also brought the demo in for the others to listen to, or, failing that, he just happened to remember everything very well - just because Roger didn't mention it in an interview doesn't mean it didn't happen. We don't know for sure, and with the apparent lock-lip manner in which the archives and any information contained within is run, we won't know for a while. That was a good point you brought up about the Flash Gordon album being recorded concurrently with The Game, Sebastian - that had completely escaped my memory. |
John S Stuart 03.11.2005 13:25 |
Sebastian wrote: I'd appreciate if you've got any exact transcription of "your" version of the story (no offence implied, just a request in order to get to a clearer outcome), since "mine" is completely different.Seb: There are a few versions of this same story, especially contemporary radio interviews, but at hand though: "Freddie Mercury: The Definitive Biography", Lesley Ann Jones, Coronet (Hodder & Stoughton), London, 1997. (Pages 230 - 231). "Mack described how his collaboration with Queen came about by accident, when he turned up at the studio at the same time as Freddie, who expressed surprise because he had not know the producer was available. Freddie had a new song he wanted to work on there and then, 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love', and suggested they get to work on it right away. Freddie was also to play rhythm guitar for the first time on a Queen track. He told Mack: "I can't play guitar, but it won't matter". To Mack Freddie seemed anxious to get the track down BEFORE BRIAN ARRIVED to do his guitar solos: "Freddie was looking for a different sound. I just put some Rock 'n Roll echoes on it, and it sounded great".(Pages 230 - 231. My emphisis in caps). While on this theme ("The Game" recordings), it is worthwhile reading Jackson's following paragraph: "It was this approach for the entire 'The Game' album. As Brian explained: We approached it from a different angle, with the idea of ruthlessly pruning it down to a coherent album rather than letting our flights of fancy leading us off into different areas. the impitus came largely from Freddie, who said that he thought we'd been diversifying so much that people didn't know what we were about any more. If there's a theme to the album, it's rhythm and sparseness - never two notes played if one would do, which is a hard discipline for us, because we tend to be quite over the top in the way we work". (Page 231). "That was breaking new ground for us, because for the first time we went into a recording studio without a deadline, purely with the intention of puting some tracks down as they came out", said Brian at the time". "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" was one of them, another was "Save Me". (Page 231). As for further collaborative evidence, you will need to give me more time to trawl through my Queen library and hours of contemporary recorded interviews, but it does raise some points worth considering: If Freddie and Mack did record "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" without Brian, do those non-Brian versions still exist? (Also, a similar thing happened during the recording of the LP "Sheer Heart Attack" - the band did all they could in the studio without Brian as he lay in hospital suffering from Hepatitis. When he recovered, he returned to the studio to overdub his guitar parts only. Therefore, does non-Brian versions of "Sheer Heart Attack" tracks still exist?). |
FriedChicken 03.11.2005 14:27 |
Sebastian, why do I have to feeling you never believe Brian's, or anyone elses quotes if it's reacting against your believings, or when it's against Freddie's qualities. Like when Brian said he came up with the Borhap solo. |
Sebastian 03.11.2005 16:02 |
> There are a few versions of this same story Agreed > "Freddie was looking for a different sound. I just put some Rock 'n Roll echoes on it, and it sounded great".(Pages 230 - 231). Thanks a lot for that quote > If Freddie and Mack did record "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" without Brian, do those non-Brian versions still exist? Indeed they do since as Brian confirmed several times, when he came it was almost completely done. I guess (rather than know) that the pre-Brian version would lack guitar solo and some of the backing harmonies. > Hepatitis. When he recovered, he returned to the studio to overdub his guitar parts only. And the vocals > Therefore, does non-Brian versions of "Sheer Heart Attack" tracks still exist?). Not of all of them, but yes, theoretically, there must be pre-Brian versions of Killer Queen and some others. Brian said he didn't know Flick Of The Wrist until he got to record his guitar and voice in there, so there you go. > Sebastian, why do I have to feeling you never believe Brian's It's not that. I apologise if anybody gets that feeling as well. What I mean is that Brian's memory is definitely not perfect, since as proved several times, he misremembers stuff. Like saying Soul Brother is from The Game, Master Stroke from Opera/Races and recorded at Wessex, etc. I don't mean he's a liar whatsoever, but I mean that his testimony is not always absolutely right. In many ways a fan or a Queen expert is a way more reliable source. Note that Brian didn't even remember Freddie and himself had used Steinway pianos. > or anyone elses quotes if it's reacting against your believings Again, I don't mean that. I'm not meaning to manipulate information, in any way, I just look for the "truth", and in the case of CLTCL, the "truth" seems to be clear to me: it wasn't composed on piano, and there is no piano version. I may be wrong of course. > or when it's against Freddie's qualities. I'm not meaning Fred was Satriani or anything, but he was definitely better than he said (and in this case Brian said the same). > Like when Brian said he came up with the Borhap solo. Bo Rhap is one of the songs with most contradictions. But that's another matter. |
John S Stuart 03.11.2005 18:01 |
Sebastian wrote: >"Freddie was looking for a different sound. I just put some Rock 'n Roll echoes on it, and it sounded great".(Pages 230 - 231). Thanks a lot for that quote > If Freddie and Mack did record "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" without Brian, do those non-Brian versions still exist? Indeed they do since as Brian confirmed several times, when he came it was almost completely done. I guess (rather than know) that the pre-Brian version would lack guitar solo and some of the backing harmonies. matter.Seb: If you knew this "all-along" (as Brian confirmed several times... it was almost completely done), why did you earlier write: "The entire multi-track exercise to get the acoustic part done and Brian's surprise look sounds utterly absurd to me considering that: - Listening to the DTS mixes, it's more than obvious that the acoustic is just one take, not a combination of those". I just find it odd that on one hand you seem to disagree, but then again, on the other you do. As I said, I am no studio expert, and I know little about multi-tracking, but it is theoretically possible (is it not), for Freddie to lay down the one acoustic guitar track, and for Mack to double-track and multi-track this solo to create a much bigger sound, without Freddie having to repeat the exercise. (I know this could be done by phasing - or echo - as Mack calls it). Surely this also ties in with the Freddie story that he "could not wait to see Brian's face", because the song was all but completed without him? I think Freddie would have received a great kick out of this. |
Sebastian 04.11.2005 03:22 |
It's a matter of terminology, and I clearly misunderstood you. When you'd said "multi-track" I'd read it as in "Freddie recording several times the guitar parts until he and Mack compiled a track out of that", in a similar way to the copy/paste exercise Roy and Brian did for Love Of My Life's harp. And that's what I disagreed with, since I'd thought you were implying that Fred hadn't been able to record his guitar "live", which, as I said, would be absurd considering the two points previously explained. But if you mean "multi-track" in the sense of a stereo mix of the single take (which is something quite different and reminds me of the good old times of this forum when you and I entered into an exhausting row because I had a similar confusion) then of course I agree, indeed the way Reinhold Mack amplified and mixed Fred's guitar is highly proffessional and effective, you can notice in the DTS mixes that he put nice EQ gimmicks and spread the guitar part in various tracks (like Roy did for John's bass in early 70s). Probably two mics had been placed next to the acoustic guitar to get different signals. |
Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 05.11.2005 17:43 |
Here is some information I received from Greg Brooks a few months ago about another version of Crazy Little Thing Called Love. He sent this to many collectors about a promo recording for sale: Dear Serious Queen Collectors, Fans & Experts. I have been approached by a person selling a very interesting promo tape containing what I think is an original recording studio 'monitor mix' of Crazy Little Thing Called Love'. That is what this mostly is, in my opinion. I have heard it and it is genuine. It is NOT the familiar master mix, though it is close to that, but it is very intriguing. The bass gtr parts are different, and vocal harmonies, etc. These kinds of recordings are very rare. This one has cropped up on a Dina Carroll promo cassette, so clearly the Queen recording should have been wiped off in order to accommodate 'Crazy', but never was. This is NOT a TDK or Sony or BASF cassette, or anything like that. As far as I can tell, it is a genuine A & M promo item, and it may well be a complete one-off. The mix is certainly not the familiar master. Now then, because we at QPL could re-create this mix if we wanted to, by going back to the multi-track master tape, we have no interest in it. But I would suggest that you serious collectors (those of you that love acetates and demo's and the like) should check this out. I have heard the mix down the phone twice now, so I assure you this is not a waste of time. Could you please contact (name withheld for posting purposes) directly if you're interested in making him a serious offer. No time wasters please. Those of you with web sites... Could you please spread the word far and wide. This would be much appreciated. Hope you're all well. Best regards GB The box is clear has A&M cover internally with dina carroll "SO CLOSE"(LP VERSION) 4:52 although there is no trace of this on tape the tape is 5:02 long in length 5secs leader ,5 secs out hand written in pencil Queen crazy little Reh 3.30 thurs the tape is clear showing no manufactures marks at all. there is label DINA CARROLL on one side in same type set as tape insert other side if tape is blank tapes condition was unplayed square peice of felt tape sits on when played had no signs of tape oxides has only been played 5-6 times by myself. |
John S Stuart 05.11.2005 19:54 |
Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) wrote: Here is some information I received from Greg Brooks a few months ago about another version of Crazy Little Thing Called Love.You will find that tape discussed here Adam: link |
Chaka 18.11.2005 10:35 |
re: Soul Brother here's an idea I've had, no "evidence" as it were, just a rather plausible (imo) scenario as to the origins of the track: Wasn't the B-Side for Under Pressure scheduled to be the David Bowie version of Cool Cat, which was withdrawn on Bowie's insistance? If this was the case, and it left Queen without a b-side, why wouldn't they revisit a song that had been partially recorded (say, the first verse was demoed and then didn't make the album cut so never completed). As they were short for time, they resurrected the song but in place of writing "proper" further verses, simply tacked on a joke-type lyrical list of previous Queen songs, now having completed & released the Flash album and preparing to release UP, thus accounting for both the references to those songs and the multiple resources claiming Soul Brother had its origins in the Game sessions. Just my own personal theory, but I think it's a good one. |
Serry... 18.11.2005 10:58 |
We need to know one little fact - where it was recorded. If it was Mountain studios then there are no any questions - it's from Hot Space days (The Game was recorded in Germany only). If it was Townhouse then it's from FG sessions. And if Musicland then yes, it can be from HS or TG... But to me it's more than obvious that this track is based on studio improvisation (and it's Queen credited as well as other improvisations, except One Vision) with Freddie's improvised meaningless lyrics including quotes from other Queen songs. Wouldn't it be great to take a look at master tape box with label on it where you can read the dates...? |
Lester Burnham 18.11.2005 11:01 |
This might be a question for Greg Brooks - but wait, this might compromise the surprises of the eventual mythical box sets! But that's a very good suggestion, Chaka, and one which I think I suggested earlier, just not quite as detailed ;-) But that's what I believe, unless proven otherwise from some sort of official, as that's what I've come to read over the years, that 'Soul Brother' was a cast-off from The Game sessions. Of course, it's always possible that the "when you're under pressure" line is a complete coincidence; but I doubt that. |
Bobby_brown 12.01.2006 13:59 |
John S Stuart wrote:I've found this interview on a site:Lord Fickle wrote: So, is there any evidence that they actually existed in any form at all? Or are they just titles that someone bandied about, and the rumours snowballed?Good question, and that's why I have always given the evidence. Therefore, we can take "Sandbox" as an absolute: Sandbox (Coming Soon – early version) GB IQFC convention Nov 2004: Unreleased Sandbox (Instrumental Jam) Sandbox - Unreleased In otherwords, it was Greg Brooks who played the disc at the International Queen Fan Club Convention, Nov 2004. If you re-read the original posting, I always give clear evidence when available. Although we know for definite that the remainder of Roger's unused "The Game" tracks went on to appear on his solo album "Fun In Space", we are not too sure if "Good Times Are Now" is one of those tracks for sure. Other rumours include "Magic Is Lose". But whatever re-jected "Game" tracks are on "Fun In Space", it would seem logical that there are Queen demo versions. This does not automatically mean that Freddie, sang these, but it has been rumoured for years - that he did. My own criteria for this thread has been "if in doubt, throw it out". So although it is fun to conjecture, you will notice that none of this appears on my original posting. link According to Roger one of the songs he would have liked to hear Freddie sing was "MAgic is Loose". So, maybe Queen never recorded this song, after all! Take care |
John S Stuart 12.01.2006 15:50 |
Bobby_brown wrote: According to Roger one of the songs he would have liked to hear Freddie sing was "MAgic is Loose". So, maybe Queen never recorded this song, after all!Based on this evidence, I would have to agree - it would be very unlikely Freddie sang (let alone recorded) 'Magic Is Loose'. However, what about that tantalising quote in the middle? Roger Taylor on Freddie singing Roger's solo stuff: 'I heard him sing a few of them'. I have included the full quote below: 'Stuart Comstive: Do you ever listen to your own music - Queen or solo - and if so what's your own favourite and are there any of your own solo songs that you would've loved to hear Freddie sing? ROGER: Hi Stuart, um - occasionally, yeah, occasionally listen. I don't actually sit down and think "Now I'm gonna listen to Sheer Heart Attack or something", but I, occasionally, you know, its sort of on in the background or somebody's listening to it or... and its often interesting, you still hear things that, you know, that catches you in a new way sometimes. Um, and my solo songs I'd love to hear Freddie sing - er yeah. I mean I heard him sing a few of them. I think I'd have liked to have heard him sing "Magic Is Loose", which is on my first solo album in 19-hundred-and-frozen-to-death.' So apart from 'Heaven For Everyone', what else do we know about Freddie 'sing(ing) a few of them'? |
Lester Burnham 12.01.2006 16:04 |
Possibly 'Freedom Train' and 'New Dark Ages', eh? |
Serry... 13.01.2006 02:06 |
Killing Time etc. He could sing anything during recording sessions. As well as he did with HFE - he just wanted to show Roger how it could be sing... |