QueenZone discussion #616759
Drum Questions
| Gordie Howe 04.09.2005 14:40 |
Hey guys. I have a few questions for drummers here... 1) What kind of tension does Roger use on his pedal? 2) In the Tribute concert, what was the black bar that Roger had by his floor toms? Yes I have checked Queen Concerts, but it doesnt talk about them. |
| David Jones 04.09.2005 14:48 |
I think that black bar did the sort of clicks for Under Pressure... I could be wrong though, Im not a drummer! |
| Penetration_Guru 04.09.2005 17:20 |
You should think about putting a band together with Johnny Knoxville.....you seem like you're made for each other. |
| Gordie Howe 04.09.2005 17:58 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: You should think about putting a band together with Johnny Knoxville.....you seem like you're made for each other.Man at least I know how to tune and work with a guitar. Ive been playing for 5 years. Im just asking those questions so I know how his bass is. I was just curious and unlike Knoxville, I know how to work an instrument. |
| deleted user 04.09.2005 17:59 |
well if you listen to the song Hereos on the tribute gig, u hear it more or less go "bang", not sure wot it is, and im unsure on the tenion on his pedal. i expect fairly tight to give a harder beat, and a louder bang. im a drummer so thats wot i twud think, not a pro drummer but new and learning |
| Joma 04.09.2005 19:45 |
The black bar is simply e-drums. Hit it and you get the programmed sound. Like a pad. Tensions varies, the same as Roger hitting the cymbals. It depends on what he wants to emphasize. Normally bass drum is tight. |
| Al TurHao 05.09.2005 03:59 |
FightFromTheInside, When you say "tension", what are you refering to? The pedal or the bassdrum head? There are not many footage of Roger's pedals over the years. In fact, only a few years ago I discovered that in the Magic Tour he used a double bassdrum pedal! (It came useful to do for instance that drum fill in the end of Tie Your Mother Down). In the 2005 tour, he also uses a double bass drum pedal. You get to hear that a lot in his drum solo. Anyway, the tension one uses is not important, because it is adapted to each individual. So, even if you use the same tension as Roger, perhaps you would have the same "mean", but not the same "end". My advice would be, try many tensions playing a song and see what suits you better. As for those black things, I suppose they are e-drum pads. They did not sound good to me, but at least not as awfull as the drums in the Works Tour! LOL Hope this helps! ;) Nevermind the jokes from blokes, if you have doubts, share them! |
| deleted user 05.09.2005 05:54 |
the drum pads he used on the Works tour was similar to what he used on the Hot Space tour, only he programmed in different sounds, cos in 84/85 Roger was experimenting with different sounds so he was not likely to use the sounds off Hot Space as cool as they did sound, and i sort of had a feeling the black bars was an e-drum pad. Looks weird but in my opinion doesnt give off a loud enough sound. you can barely hear it. Thats why i thought at first just a black bar that makes a banging noise when you hit it. :S |
| GreatKingSam 05.09.2005 06:50 |
I bought a Queen book recently, that "new" one called The Early Years (actually a pretty decent book, in my opinion anyway). In it, it has quotes from Brian and Tim talking about Roger using a double bass-drum set up and said he was awesome on it, yet he never really ever used it again after that, least not for any recordings. Wonder why? I'd like to see it done, especially by a rock n roll drummer like Rog who'd use it to fit the song rather than just to show off. |
| chewing gum bum 05.09.2005 07:12 |
I think Roger used a double kick in the I Want It All video but I still can't figure out if he used it on the track itself. At least in the fast section of the song. I've been playing for 30 years and can't figure this one out but if I had to guess he's using a single kick on the track. |
| GreatKingSam 05.09.2005 07:59 |
Sounds like a single kick to me, with good technique. |
| Serry... 05.09.2005 08:45 |
Maybe these would be interesting: http://sebastian.queenconcerts.com/m-galleries.html /index.php?section=information&action=instruments |
| Al TurHao 05.09.2005 09:39 |
Actually, this turned out to be a great post to discuss. Personally, I don't like what the 80's stood for. I consider them to be the Dark Ages of Music when it comes to quality, specially if we're talking about rhythm sections. Yes, Queen were keen on experimenting new stuff... and you have distintive electronic drums in The Works and A Kind Of Magic albuns, but also (not so distintive) on The Miracle and Innuendo. Speaking of The Miracle, we see Roger in the video of I Want It All with two bassdrums... I, like you, share the opinion that one bass drum was used in the studio... or none, that is, they programmed the drums, instaed of playing it. There are songs in these two albuns (Miracle, Innuendo and even Made In Heaven) where acustic drums are mixed with GOOD programmed ones, so good that it confuses us. For instance, The Invisible Man and Breakthru have programmed, not played drums. That goes also for the Bass. (the bass line in these tracks is keyboard bass, only the solo when the train enters the tunnel is a real bass). That does not mean that Roger could do more complicated patterns, but drum programming made things much easier and faster... |
| Gordie Howe 05.09.2005 11:36 |
Well the thing is, I use a double pedal too, and I actually have it on a very loose setting for my pedal. I just want to get the tuning on my toms the way he has them on the WWRY concert. Basically my set up now is the way he had his set in 77/78. With the timbales and the second smaller set. Ive always wondered about his tuning but a lot of people dont know about it which sucks. |
| deleted user 05.09.2005 12:18 |
Well im gettin a drum set and i want mine really to look like the set he had at Live Aid 85. I thought they were pretty good except the sound was a tiny bit naff! |
| JDL2nd 05.09.2005 13:12 |
Al TurHao wrote: FightFromTheInside, When you say "tension", what are you refering to? The pedal or the bassdrum head? There are not many footage of Roger's pedals over the years. In fact, only a few years ago I discovered that in the Magic Tour he used a double bassdrum pedal! (It came useful to do for instance that drum fill in the end of Tie Your Mother Down). In the 2005 tour, he also uses a double bass drum pedal. You get to hear that a lot in his drum solo. Anyway, the tension one uses is not important, because it is adapted to each individual. So, even if you use the same tension as Roger, perhaps you would have the same "mean", but not the same "end". My advice would be, try many tensions playing a song and see what suits you better. As for those black things, I suppose they are e-drum pads. They did not sound good to me, but at least not as awfull as the drums in the Works Tour! LOL Hope this helps! ;) Nevermind the jokes from blokes, if you have doubts, share them!I don't think he used double bassdrum pedal in the magic tour and the 2005 tour. He plays fast notes in groups of 3 or 6 (whatever you want)at the end of TYMD. In his solo on the 2005 tour he used the same things. But then he played fast notes ( a mix of toms and bassdrum) in groups of 3. I hope you understand gheghe. It's difficult to explain in English. Then : the thing about I want it all. My drumteacher says Roger plays double bassdrum pedal in the fast rockpart of the song. According to my drumteacher that's a very difficult thing to play. It doesn't match with the great, but most of the time, simple style Roger plays. So I doubt it. It's very difficult to hear. When they played it at FM tribute concert he used a single pedal. |
| cmsdrums 05.09.2005 13:57 |
Roger definitely doesn't use a double pedal on any of the Magic tour footage I've heard and seen, or on the 2005 Q+PR tour. Can't say for sure, but based on the sound of it, and the fact that none of the other 'The Miracle' sessions have any double kick drum on, I'd say that the fast bit in 'I Want it All' is definitely single pedal - it's nothing too tricky, just quick. The e-drum thing referred to is known as a bar - a few companies make them and I don't know what make Roger used at the Tribute concert, but could be a DDrum?? ( I use a Yamaha one which is a BP80). The only recording I can instantly think of that Roger has used a double kick drum on (or double pedal on a single drum)is the re-recorded version of 'Final Destination' from the 'Foreign Sand' single. Amazing that there was nothing really outstanding on the 'Happiness' album drumwise, yet the drumming on 'Final Destination' was outstanding, and the best bit of virtuoso drumming for years from him, and it was 'hidden' away! |
| Q-Nick 05.09.2005 14:00 |
3* taylorgaga (Begg) wrote: Well im gettin a drum set and i want mine really to look like the set he had at Live Aid 85. I thought they were pretty good except the sound was a tiny bit naff!The best looking kit is his Ludwig/Sleishmann kit from the tribute concert and the current Tour. Also the best sounding in my opinion too. |
| deleted user 05.09.2005 14:01 |
he def uses double base drum on the 2005 tour, it is very noticable on the newcastle boot, and i could tell when i saw the base drum bouncin durin the solo when i was at the gig. DEF double base on the 2005 tour. |
| Gordie Howe 05.09.2005 14:45 |
Yeah Roger does indeed use a double bass pedal in the 2005 tour. On Queenconcerts, it is visible. |
| deleted user 05.09.2005 15:08 |
Q-Nick wrote:You have any idea how much a Sleishman would cost to have made and shipped over to UK? cos most UK places dont do em, its australian i think, it would cost a fookin fortune!3* taylorgaga (Begg) wrote: Well im gettin a drum set and i want mine really to look like the set he had at Live Aid 85. I thought they were pretty good except the sound was a tiny bit naff!The best looking kit is his Ludwig/Sleishmann kit from the tribute concert and the current Tour. Also the best sounding in my opinion too. |
| JDL2nd 05.09.2005 17:11 |
I just watched a part of the 46664 concert, the gig for Brixton Academy and they film his bassdrum pedal while Roger is playing WWRY. You only see 1 pedal. This of course could have changed when the official tour started but I am not sure about it. Does anyone of you have a picture of it or do you have some examples of songs of the last tour where he uses the double pedal? I think it's really cool if he used it. |
| Adam Baboolal 05.09.2005 21:36 |
Dunno if this will add anything but here goes... My mate has a double pedal system and it's pretty cool. However, I grew to dislike it as I find what you can do with it pretty limiting and would only use it sparingly, myself. I wonder if Roger thought the same when he recorded. Anyway, my eldest brother used the double-pedal and then demonstrated that he could do the same beats with just one! That made me chuckle. Before anyone chimes in and says they both sound different, yes, of course they do. It'd be dumb not to acknowledge that. It gets a different sound, so there you go. Peace, Adam. |
| Al TurHao 06.09.2005 04:47 |
To FightFromTheInside: It seems to me that you have one hell of a drum kit, man! Once is completed, send us photos of that wonder... One more thing about the sound: Keep in mind that what you hear on the CD's and stuff is the amplified sound with the mikes... that's why bands have to go through the checksound process. So, even if you tune drums in a certain way, mixing them in the P.A. can change your sound quite a bit. If you're having mics in your drum kit, tune them in a way you like, and experiment with the equalization on the mixing table. It's virtually impossible for your acoustic drum kit to sound as Roger's concert sound in the 70's. To JDL2nd: Yes, I know what you mean by "3 or 6". :) I also never heard a distintive moment on Wembley 86 where Roger uses the double bass pedal, but the fact is that is there. If I'm not wrong, take a look at the photo inside the (crappy) CD of Live Magic. You'll see the double bass pedal. As for the drum fill final on TYMD, I won't put my ass on the line, it could be double bass pedal, or just those things you call "3 or 6's" ;) It can certainly be done with a single pedal... I'll study the video later... As for the 2005, that's a little different, believe me. In his drum solo, he uses a double pedal for sure. :) I Want It All... well, like I said, it's complicated, but possible. I would bet on programmed drums. Roger simplifies it when it's played live (my guess is that the fast part is the most difficult moment of the concert for him...) Q-Nick: Also agree with you on the looks... |
| JDL2nd 06.09.2005 16:47 |
Al TurHao wrote: To FightFromTheInside: It seems to me that you have one hell of a drum kit, man! Once is completed, send us photos of that wonder... One more thing about the sound: Keep in mind that what you hear on the CD's and stuff is the amplified sound with the mikes... that's why bands have to go through the checksound process. So, even if you tune drums in a certain way, mixing them in the P.A. can change your sound quite a bit. If you're having mics in your drum kit, tune them in a way you like, and experiment with the equalization on the mixing table. It's virtually impossible for your acoustic drum kit to sound as Roger's concert sound in the 70's. To JDL2nd: Yes, I know what you mean by "3 or 6". :) I also never heard a distintive moment on Wembley 86 where Roger uses the double bass pedal, but the fact is that is there. If I'm not wrong, take a look at the photo inside the (crappy) CD of Live Magic. You'll see the double bass pedal. As for the drum fill final on TYMD, I won't put my ass on the line, it could be double bass pedal, or just those things you call "3 or 6's" ;) It can certainly be done with a single pedal... I'll study the video later... As for the 2005, that's a little different, believe me. In his drum solo, he uses a double pedal for sure. :) I Want It All... well, like I said, it's complicated, but possible. I would bet on programmed drums. Roger simplifies it when it's played live (my guess is that the fast part is the most difficult moment of the concert for him...) Q-Nick: Also agree with you on the looks...I don't see the second bassdrum pedal on the picture inside the Live magic cd. It also doesn't show a stave that goes to the other pedal (like a double bassdrum pedal system is build). But I am convinced that he used a double bassdrum pedal system during the queen + PR Tour. I've found some pictures here on this site. Great news :D |
| Gordie Howe 06.09.2005 16:54 |
Al TurHao wrote: To FightFromTheInside: It seems to me that you have one hell of a drum kit, man! Once is completed, send us photos of that wonder...hahaha it is pretty muuch completed now, Ill take a few pics in a minute. |
| cmsdrums 06.09.2005 17:27 |
Hi, Al Tur Hao - I think I know the pic you are referring to in the 'Live Magic' artwork (the pic with Roger wearing sunglasses and singing), but the bit that I think you are confusing with the bar connecting a double pedal is actually one of the legs of his snare stand - I was fooled for a moment, but it's definitely only one pedal there! Can someone point me to the pics on Queen Concerts showing the double pedal please? I am not saying that he definitely doesn't use one at some point, but I have never seen it, and he definitely didn't use one at Brixton. Although I haven't heard the Newcastle 2005 gig referred to, none of the other bootlegs I've heard from the tour have double pedal work, and none of Queen's recorded work really warrants any double kick, so I still won't believe it until I see it!! Thanks cmsdrums link |
| Gordie Howe 06.09.2005 18:17 |
cmsdrums wrote: Hi, Al Tur Hao - I think I know the pic you are referring to in the 'Live Magic' artwork (the pic with Roger wearing sunglasses and singing), but the bit that I think you are confusing with the bar connecting a double pedal is actually one of the legs of his snare stand - I was fooled for a moment, but it's definitely only one pedal there! Can someone point me to the pics on Queen Concerts showing the double pedal please? I am not saying that he definitely doesn't use one at some point, but I have never seen it, and he definitely didn't use one at Brixton. Although I haven't heard the Newcastle 2005 gig referred to, none of the other bootlegs I've heard from the tour have double pedal work, and none of Queen's recorded work really warrants any double kick, so I still won't believe it until I see it!! Thanks cmsdrums link/index.php?section=information&action=instruments&sub=2005_spring All of the pics show one. Especially the 3rd |
| Gordie Howe 06.09.2005 18:40 |
Al TurHao, pics will have to wait. My camera decided to bust on me while I was taking a pic today so I have to get mine fixed. As soon as its fixed, ill send you a pic. |
| GreatKingSam 07.09.2005 04:03 |
I really don't think Rog uses a double bass drum pedal. Using the example of the end of Tie Your Mother Down... perhaps he is a better drummer, I don't know (although I know Dave begs to differ!) but listen to Dave Grohl play on the Queens Of The Stone Age song ''First It Giveth''. That is played with a single pedal, and its almost like he's playing the bass drum with his sticks its o fast. I'm not saying Rog, especially at 57 could do it, but it can easily be done fast, especially with the correct technique. |
| Al TurHao 07.09.2005 04:47 |
Yes, I can be mistaken, regarding that photo from "Live Magic"... don't have the CD here with me, so I'll take your word for it. Even if Roger has a double pedal, he is certainly not the kind of drummer who uses it a lot. On that we all agree. :) I also believe that in Brixton he didn't have one. My guess is that he only uses it on the drum solo/Let there be drums, which was added to set list a little bit later on the tour. Let me just say that I grew up as a drummer listening to Roger over the years. So I know his "licks and tricks". He waa awsome in the first albuns, then with the music changing over the years, his drumming adapted, still he's a hell of a drummer. Nowadays, I think you'll understand this, his drumming is quite intelligent. Almost flawless, he doesn't risk so much in complicated breaks and plays a lot with brains, which provides excelent results (In the Tribute his was suberb, in the 2005 tour... well, impressive). Just one more thought: some posts ago, somebody mentioned his work with Yoshiki in Foreign Sand and specially Final Destination. Well, my friends, drums in Foreign Sand are credited to Yoshiki (even in the Happiness album). As for the great drumming in Final Destination, those are also programmed drums. And I have absolutely no doubt here, fellas! It sounds programmed and even the drum style is not distinctively Roger's. My guess is that Yoshiki re-arranged the whole song. Hell, even the chords are different! :) Still, great song, great drumming! |
| lozitopj 08.09.2005 19:52 |
Hello everyone. I am a drummer and I have been playing for many years. The main reason I became a drummer is because of Roger. Regarding his double bass, I don't believe he used double bass at all in his shows with the exception of earlier shows when Queen started. Reagrding the Magic Tour he used a Roland Octapad that created a triggering device on different parts of his drums, including his cymbals. He also had triggers on his set, so that he would not have to play as hard. Also, with the triggers he had, it allowed him to get more out his acoustical setting. The most obviuos songs he had triggers on were TYMD and HTF from the Magic Tour. I liked his drumset especially in the Magic Tour, because it allowed him make different sounds with his 7-piece drumset. If there are any drum questions feel free to ask me via this discussion board. Take care!!!!! |