SomebodyWhoLoves 27.08.2005 20:20 |
He was talented yes. But he is hardly a role model for anyone. He was self-absorbed person. And lived an unusual life that is ultimately unhealthy morally, spiritually, physically... Does anyone disagree? |
killer_queen00 27.08.2005 20:27 |
Yes, I do. If you've watched interviews with Freddie Mercury he talks like he's a normal person, not self absorbed like he acts on stage. He has even said that people think his personality is the way he is on stage and he says he just puts on a performance, no different than what an actor would do. I think he could be a great role model. I know that many people believe in homosexuality being a sin (not including me) but in his career he made it very far so I think he runs a fair chance of being a role model. |
Bob The Shrek 27.08.2005 20:57 |
I'd rather booze it up, snort coke and have sex than get nailed to a cross. Unless it was a nice view, then I might be okay for a day or two. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 27.08.2005 21:13 |
Why does it have to be black or white? Either live like Freddie did, or get nailed to a cross? Anyone who speaks of Freddie Mercury in the same sentence as Jesus Christ is an idiot. Let's not compare a man, and God ok? Back to the subject: Was Freddie Mercury a role model? He was an excellent singer, and song writer, but his life was marked by excessive debauchery, promiscuity, drug and alcohol abuse, and ultimately, a death bought on by AIDS which itself is a result of an irresponsible sexual activity. I DARE anyone here to defend Freddie Mercury's lifestyle. Would anyone here want their son or daughter to live such a life? I doubt it. And based on the many hours of watching Freddie Mercury on video, I can say that Freddie never matured beyond a childish, immature, self-absorbed mentality. His wealth afforded him the ability to never grow up, and be a child and live as a child. And as a consequence, he never understood until it was too late the importance of responsiblity, and self-control. |
Sharon G. 27.08.2005 21:33 |
I loved Freddie and miss him very much. |
TarHeelDDS2005 27.08.2005 22:01 |
I don't agree with what Vival said, but Shrek, you're fucking ignorant. It's amazing you weren't struck by lightning after saying that. If I could see you I would punch your sorry ass right in the face. |
goliath 27.08.2005 22:02 |
Feddie's lifstyle was really nobody's business but his own. He never asked anyone or gave a shit what people thought. That in itself is what made him an excellent role model. He taught me to love myself for who I am and not to care what other people thought. In my book he was the greatest role model to ever walk the earth. If you don't care for the way he lived his life than move on and find another band. |
TarHeelDDS2005 27.08.2005 22:03 |
For anyone wanting to send Bob The Shrek hatemail for saying that, e-mail him at bobvye@hotmail.com |
Robin 27.08.2005 22:04 |
Freddie did not aspire to be a role model by any means. He was exactly who he was and didn't give a rat's rear what anyone thought about it. If I were to look at him as a role model it would be because of his extreme intelligence and amazing musical talent, not his personal life. And remember, people in glass houses should not throw stones. |
teleman 27.08.2005 22:10 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: He was talented yes. But he is hardly a role model for anyone. He was self-absorbed person. And lived an unusual life that is ultimately unhealthy morally, spiritually, physically... Does anyone disagree?Who are we to pass judgement? We have free will and can choose the life we live. I've never read or heard anything about him being a self absorbed person. If you like his music that is all that should concern anyone. |
teleman 27.08.2005 22:18 |
TarHeelDDS2005 wrote: For anyone wanting to send Bob The Shrek hatemail for saying that, e-mail him at bobvye@hotmail.comTarHeelDDS2005 why don't you show your email address so we can let you know how we feel about your encouraging people to send hatemail. Fucking creep |
Boy Thomas Raker 27.08.2005 22:26 |
That's great that you believe Freddie wasn't a role model or moralistic person, SomebodyWhoLoves. I'm pretty sure that he never said he was a role model. Too bad he wasn't a role model that you'd look up to who didn't have lots of gay sex, like, say, a priest in the Catholic Church. Wait a minute... |
Sharron .G 27.08.2005 22:38 |
First of all... Freddie never had a herion addiction. Its like this folks.... If Freddie would have had sex with 2,000 women, no one would say shit... Every hetero guy would say "Freddie, you da man" Instead, Freddie has sex with thousands of men. So what? Some people say "it says right there in the bible that homosexuality is a sin" While, I'm not a homo, but I believe that 99% of homosexuals are born that way. Why in the hell would anyone choose to live their life in such a manner which causes public scrutiny and hate???? MANY OF YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND.... TO TELL A HOMOSEXUAL (A BORN TRAIT) TO "QUIT BEING A FAG".... IS LIKE SOMEONE TELLING YOU TO QUIT HAVING SEX WITH WOMEN, AND START TAKING A PETER IN YOUR ASS. Freddie snorted some coke at parties, and had gay sex with lots of men. He did this because he was wealthy, because he could, because he was a born homosexual (FYI: Mary Austin + her friends were total pieces of hot ass in the early 1970's, Freddie could of had Mary, or any of her friends.... he opted to suck penis) so that confirms to me that Freddie HAD ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY....Do any of you hetero's reading this think you could go out, get wild, and just have some gay sex?? I sure as hell COULD NOT. So that tells me that homosexuality is in your brain's wiring.... its not a choice... its a born trait. Again, I know that some of your bibles say "thou shall not lay with another man" But whose bible are you reading?? You can go to your local book store and pick up 4 different versions of the bible tonight... so whose version is right?? In the end... I don't know if homosexuality is right or wrong. I suspect that we really are gods people. I suspect that homosexuality is a born way that you are...and not something that anyone aspires to be. I suspect that either way, I am going to be forgiving and tolerant of those who are, as I am not god (nor are you) and its not my place to judge. As for Freddie Mercury... he was a kind, gentle person, who would give anyone the shirt off his back, he was very humble, very modest, and I don't think ever new JUST HOW TALENTED he was. He engaged in some actions that many of you didn't agree with.... but guess what, we ALL have done something in the last week, that your neighbor down the street would find immoral. Freddie did what he did all unto himself, or with consenting adults... and his last days were carried out with grace, and without complaint. He faced his illness head on, and with bravery. While some feel he should have held 4 world press conferences to announce his AIDS. I feel his exit was classy, his work ethic was second to none, and he sung his ass off until he physically couldn't. I respect Freddie Mercury... he made some mistakes, but haven't we all? |
deleted user 27.08.2005 22:40 |
vivival wrote: Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model. His lifetime was nothing but engaging in promiscious sex with thousands of untold men, battling endless heroin addictions, excessive selfishness, materialism, loneliness, sodomy, and he didn't do nothing but become addicted to morphine and/or barbituates and engage in sodomy with over 1,500 gay men in his short little life. Freddie Mercury died as a very, very evil man. The one and ONLY role model for you is the Lord Jesus Christ, he shall be the role model for you, Unlike Freddie Mercury, who was nothing but a very, very evil man. How sad! How tragic! Where is he now? HELL!i was kind of hoping that you were gone, but oh well, ill just go on and on about your stupidity anyway i still think its kind of funny that your favorite band member is freddie mercury, when you clearly hate him first off, you dont need to repeat things a hundred times...secondly, he was not a heroin guy, he rarely took drugs, except for the very rare occasion when he took marijuana...thirdly, he was obviously not excessively selfish, otherwise he wouldnt have let other members write songs for the band because that would take the attention off of him, and if he was as selfish as you say, there was no way he wouldve let roger or brian sing lead in any songs...fourthly, he was not lonely; research a little about his life and you will find out he had very many friends, fans, and even had cats that loved him; do you have any cats that love you? no you dont, so quit talking...fifthly, sodomy is only frowned upon by serious christians who dont understand that there are gay people in the world, and no matter how many christians protest, nothing will change that; the bible isnt true to everyone you know...sixthly, you should really stop calling people idiotic and immoral just because they dont follow christianity, cause when you meet some one of another religion who is less patient than most people on here, you are going to get slapped so hard it will hurt for three years oh, and say hi to freddie in hell for me would ya? |
ibanez122 27.08.2005 23:25 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: based on the many hours of watching Freddie Mercury on video, I can say that Freddie never matured beyond a childish, immature, self-absorbed mentality. His wealth afforded him the ability to never grow up, and be a child and live as a child. And as a consequence, he never understood until it was too late the importance of responsiblity, and self-control. im sorry but that sounds alot more like michael jackson than FM. Besides, I dont know why you people have judge someone on their lifestyle. He lived his life the way he wanted and could rather care less (his own choice). If your want jesus christ in your life fine go ahead, let him be, it was his life so fuckin deal with it. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 28.08.2005 00:02 |
michael jackson and freddie mercury have a lot in common. they were once friends. and i believe, after fm's death. michael jackson sort of went crazy, and tried to become fm. |
deleted user 28.08.2005 00:02 |
he's my role model, I think he was a nice/sweet guy. All the other stuff he did drugs and sex...he had his reasons( sadness; depression). |
rove 28.08.2005 00:06 |
I don't think Freddie was evil, nor do I think being gay is a sin ( jesus said to accept all people !!! ) however he is not a role model for me. I have heard interviews with him where he states that he lived his life to have as much fun as possible. To me it seemed he wasn't a terribly selfish man or anything but he wasn't exactly the person i'd want my kids to be like ie. having a lot of sex, a lot of parties, drugs booze etc. |
ibanez122 28.08.2005 00:12 |
queen4ever2 wrote: he's my role model, I think he was a nice/sweet guy. All the other stuff he did drugs and sex...he had his reasons( sadness; depression).+1 to that..everyone has their reasons for what they do, despite what people will think |
gihona 28.08.2005 00:44 |
whats with all the conservative puritans hypocrites here?! who are you to judge someone you never even met and who are you to decide what is right and how a person should live his life?! and anyway, who the fuck needs their favorite rock star to be fucking role model?! i want mine as decadent and promiscuous as possible! |
Bob The Shrek 28.08.2005 01:21 |
TarHeelDDS2005 wrote: For anyone wanting to send Bob The Shrek hatemail for saying that, e-mail him at bobvye@hotmail.comI don't know who the hell you are but you obviously don't have a backbone - where's my hate mail? You post for people to send me hate mail yet send nothing yourself, coward. Please feel free to explain my ignorance and I will explain sarcasm. |
mercuryqueen 28.08.2005 04:02 |
Freddie Mercury was not full of himself. He was very modest. Freddie Mercury is my idol and my role model, and i dont go around doing drugs and having sex with many strange men... You dont always have to look at the bad in everyone. If you dont like Freddie then why the hell are you here? This sinner, this anti-christ created all this. None of this would be here if it wasnt for him. He was probably the most talented musician of all time and is admired by many more then you will ever know. I bet more people on this earth could recite a Queen lyric before a bible verse, so who is god now? (Rhetorical question, Freddie Mercury was and is god) |
brENsKi 28.08.2005 04:33 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Why does it have to be black or white? Either live like Freddie did, or get nailed to a cross?how about living like Freddie did, and nailing a member of the the Cross? |
on my way up 28.08.2005 05:20 |
When I watch my dvd's I don't think:there is freddie mercury and he fucked a lot of men!!I just admire him for his work.For me he is 1 of the most talented men to have ever lived.There is something unique about him.Of course he had less good sides,like everyone.But I also see he was a loving brother and son.He truly cared about the other members from queen and also about his fans.I have a great amount of respect for him and thus not only because of his musical and performing skills.And I think:nothing he did will cause himto burn in Hell!God and jesus forgive people,you know.My god does anyway. |
deleted user 28.08.2005 05:49 |
Fun is healthy |
Bob The Shrek 28.08.2005 08:12 |
Careful TQ, you don't want to be ignorant like me. |
bitesthedust 28.08.2005 08:31 |
Freddie was and still is my hero. I prefer to concentrate on his music career, whatever he did in his private life is not a factor. |
Mercuryking 28.08.2005 08:54 |
Vivial wrote: "Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model, the only role model for you is Jesus Christ." Oh yea? Have u seen Jesus Christ? Do you know if he even existed? The only thing u know is whats written down in a silly BOOK called "the bible" YOU are nothing BUT a sheep that follows. I would pick Freddie over"Jesus Christ" ANY DAY. And i cant believe that there are Christian or religious Queen fans... I mean if so, then you all stupid f*cks think that Freddie is in "HELL"now which is plain stupidity. Thats the way it works for homos that they end up in hell doesnt it? So how the f*ck can u be a fan of freddie and at the same time be religious?(think bout it , your idol is the man who is goin to hell , dont forget it)Sounds so stupid to me. Freddie lived freely just how he wanted to, not following some stupid things like religion even though he was born a (Zoroustrian?) NO offense BUT Those who believe in these fairytale BOOKS (religion) are a bunch of RETARD SHEEPS. Thats my opinion. take care |
7Innuendo7 28.08.2005 09:14 |
funny how FM wrote a song called "All God's People" and "In My Defence," while "Mustapha" suggests prayer is a good thing and there's this song called "Jesus" on the first album. Now we have "Christian artists" like Michael W. Smith and the lead singer of Creed, Scott Stapp, caught up in infidelity controversies because they claim and give the appearance of promoting salvation. Oh, and that recent Pat Robertson thing...what part of "thou shalt not kill" don't you get? DC Talk rocks a lot harder anyway. To my knowledge FM only promoted "be natural, be yourself." SO imho study the Dead Sea scrolls and the paintings of Teniers and Poussin. Find out what really happened in Qumran 2k yrs ago -- because prejudice is a sin! Even if you choose to label someone as an enemy or a sinner, you must (agape)love them too. |
Glasgow1977 28.08.2005 09:46 |
Freddie lived an amazing life style i know i would rather be getting drunk & snorting coke we live the alternative a normal life. what it always comes down to is his sexuality who gives a toss to each his own. Apart from the drugs and sexual prefrence technicaly i would say he was bi(but that was his choice) he is a great role model and he proved dreams can come true you just need to work hard enogh as for the drugs & se pr That is your choice. |
Eviltwin 28.08.2005 10:39 |
*Snore* |
rachael mae. 28.08.2005 10:45 |
vivival wrote: Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model, the only role model for you is Jesus Christ.What about people like me, who don´t believe in Jesus? ... |
SergeantPepperDG 28.08.2005 11:14 |
As far as I know, Jesus Christ did really exist. He may not have actually been the "son of god," but he was a real walking, breathing human being. At least according to my history book... And, no, it wasn't the bible. And I'm sure it wasn't written from a religious perspective- it was entirely historical. |
SergeantPepperDG 28.08.2005 11:41 |
I actually tried reading the bible once. My mom bought me a Jewish study bible, with commentaries and interpretations. Now, I'm no scholar or anything, but the part in Leviticus 18:somethingorother where it supposedly condemns homosexuality, someone (I guess it was a rabbi, or something) wrote something very interesting: "Biblical and Near Eastern culture was not familiar with homosexuality in the sense of a sexual orientation or lifestyle (according to the biblical evidence David and Jonah had not sexual relationship). It acknowledges only the occasional act of male anal intercourse, usually as an act of force associated with humiliation, revenge, or subjection... It seems that H views all sexual acts that are not potentially procreative as aberrant." Notice where it says, "...USUALLY AS AN ACT OF FORCE ASSOCIATED WITH HUMILIATION, REVENGE, OR SUBJECTION..." So, basically rape, right? Again, I'm hardly familiar with the bible, but I don't recall anything in that section (there may be in another part of the bible) calling it an abomination for a man to do this to a woman (which shows you what type of people wrote the bible)- unless you're agreeing with the rabbi when he or she said, "It seems that H views all sexual acts that are not potentially procreative as aberrant." But then in that case, doesn't just about everyone have sex for pleasure? Not primarily for procreation. You just can't take the bible 100% literally. Aren't there 613 commandments? I learned that in Hebrew school, so that just may be in the old testament alone. Need I remind anyone of a certain letter to Dr. Laura? |
AmeriQueen 28.08.2005 11:56 |
I do, bigtime! Anyone who studies music, get's in several bands, working on their trade, all the way until they are a music legend, is a good role model. The idea of a role model is silly. Nobody can realisticaly stand tall in all areas of life. So he made mistakes, had flaws and what not. He went through life a winner and someone who's name and contribution will still be around 200 years from now. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 28.08.2005 11:59 |
I dont dare say that FM went to hell, but unless he became converted in the very end of his life, his life gave no evidence that he was a Christian. And if he wasn't one, then I'm afraid Freddie IS in hell, burning, and suffering greatly. |
SergeantPepperDG 28.08.2005 12:03 |
Well, I guess I'm going to hell too, since I'm Jewish. I sure as hell never plan on converting. But I guess it isn't all bad- I'll be there with my family, my Jewish friends, my Christian friends who were never baptised and don't plan on living a perfect Christian lifestye, and Freddie Mercury! Hell actually doesn't sound too bad to me! |
ibanez122 28.08.2005 12:09 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: I dont dare say that FM went to hell, but unless he became converted in the very end of his life, his life gave no evidence that he was a Christian. And if he wasn't one, then I'm afraid Freddie IS in hell, burning, and suffering greatly.in all reality..and IMO there is no heaven and hell...honestly. there are "there" to make people feel better about their death when they die, or feel scared that they will be going to hell. i have nothin against religion but thats how it is |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:12 |
I love Freddie For his music and his talent...I dont have any interest in his personal life as that is none of my business!!!! Some of you people shouldnt even be on Queenzone!!! Freddie Mercury is my idol for his MUSIC CAREER! His Music cheers me up when im down and makes me happy and i love his voice and he was a great showman...!!!!!! Queen forever!!!!!! XXXXXXXXXXX |
gihona 28.08.2005 12:14 |
They found an ossuary (a stone box in which the bones of a dead person were put) with the inscription "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" in Israel, it was dated to around AD 50 and the chance of these names existing in that specific relation and NOT being about 'the' Jesus was about 1:5 000 000. However, the biblical Jesus is probably not as important as he is described. Most probably, he was one of the most important figures in the early version of the Jewish sect which later became Christianity, but to make their 'history' of events easier to follow, the acts and lives of many people were joined together in Jesus. Plus, of course, the dose of fiction, which is a natural consequence of the stories being transferred orally for well over 200 years before they were written down.
sorry to disappoint you darling, but today most of the Archeologists belive that this ossuary is a fraud - we have a lot of those in Israel, naturally, land of the bible and a lot of people want to meke easy money. anyway - as for the rest of what you said, you're probably right, Jesus was probably a very charismatic humnan being who preached in the spirit of the bible's prophets and became "the son of god" in the heads of people years later. as for you - SomebodyWhoLoves - you're a god damn idiot, or you're just very young and ignorant. i'm jewish as well - will i go to hell? wait up SergeantPepperDG - save me a sit in the FM's post mortem concert!!!!!! |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:22 |
I cant believe some ppl on here...!!!!! why fucking come on Queenzone if you dont like the person Freddie was!!! |
SomebodyWhoLoves 28.08.2005 12:28 |
There are some Jews who are in heaven right now. Moses, King David, King Solomon, Abraham, etc. During the exodus period, some Jews were obedient to God, and were saved. However, the great majority of Jews died in the desert because of unbelief. Heaven will be full of believers. Hell will be full of unbelievers. Which one will you be? |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:31 |
this should be renamed to Biblezone Not Queenzone! |
SergeantPepperDG 28.08.2005 12:32 |
Hm... tough deci- UNBELIEVER. Now where are those lightning bolts? |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:32 |
I aint a unbeliever! |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:35 |
I just think this Subject is better off in a Religion Forum on a Religious Website not of queenzone for queen fans to talk about there IDOLS! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
gihona 28.08.2005 12:38 |
I am a QUEEN believer!!! save me my lord Freddie christ!!!!!!!!!! |
MelinaMercury 28.08.2005 12:39 |
IM A QUEEN BELIEVE TOO AND A FREDDIE MERCURY ONE!!!!!!! So piss off back to ur religious Brainwashing websites!!!! |
its_a_hard_life 28.08.2005 12:52 |
For fuck sake stop the fucking shit comments vivial and somebodywholoves, i bet your the same person like Poodle did, your all mental and need some help, leave Freddie Mercury alone, what he did wasnt anyones bussiness and certianly not yours so please leave the bad comment inside your head and stop posting shit, your full of crap need your mouths ziped, you will go to hell for gossiping about someone and JUDING them, God is the jude at the end of the day not you or anyone else so shut your mouth!!! Yes so what if we like Freddie Mercury as our role model, that is because of the power he gave in his music hes the most talented man, the BEST showman on earth and if he took drugs and had sex with men let him, at the end of the day hes living his life while your living yours look at yourself before commenting on other peoples lifes! Thank you. |
Missy May 28.08.2005 13:22 |
Robin wrote: remember, people in glass houses should not throw stones.Exactly! Who the hell are we to pass judgement on someone else's life? He didn't actually ask to be good at music. If he hadn't have been, then he probably would have been EXACTLY the same as he was. He didn't ask people to enjoy his music, he didn't ask people to hold his life up under the microscope. If someone did that to you, you would probably say it was an invasion of privacy. Why should people have to defend him for being himself? And all those people who are sitting there 0N A QUEEN FANSITE saying, oh, he was evil and wicked and hes probably in hell or something, WHY ARE YOU EVEN ON A QUEEN FANSITE IF YOU THINK HE WAS SO EVIL??? |
Lord Blackadder 28.08.2005 14:11 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: He was talented yes. But he is hardly a role model for anyone. He was self-absorbed person. And lived an unusual life that is ultimately unhealthy morally, spiritually, physically... Does anyone disagree?Looks like we've got a homophobe onboard. |
Lymi 28.08.2005 14:38 |
I was reading this threat and honestly, i can't believe what i'm reading. I agree with some of you, but others..... those homophobic comments, the bible, Freddie in hell or heaven. So c'mon, we're here to talk about how we love Freddie and the rest of the guys of the band, not to insult Freddie's memories. What he did with his life, it was his bussiness. He was an adult and he knew what he was doing. I admire Freddie for his kidness with the audience, his voice, his talent, and of course; his sexy style. Forget if he was a role model or not. Freddie is inside our hearts, but we have to realize that he died almost 14 years ago, so he deserves respect. |
Bob The Shrek 28.08.2005 14:58 |
Still waiting for the hate mail......... |
Whisperer 28.08.2005 15:44 |
Freddie is a hero for me. He wanted to be the best and he became it. He had a strong belief in himself and made his dreams come true. I don't care what he did in his private life. It's not my business. No matter what he did, he still was better and more successful than most other people and that's what counts. |
jeffuk49 28.08.2005 15:50 |
what he did with his own life is his concern and nobody else role model yes got what he wanted with out hurting anyone, worked hard up until his death, shared his wealth, didn't owe anybody jack shit, the top performer, songwriter, party animal, the list could go on and on and on |
Freddie_slave 28.08.2005 16:19 |
I love Freddie. He is my role model. He was a gentel, loving and generous man and someone I can really look up to. If he had sex with man, I don't care, it was his right to do it and I don't judge him because of it. And anyone who says Freddie was evil is complete, ignorant idiot. FUCK OFF, YOU HOMOPHOBIC RELIGIOUS FREAKS AND LEAVE FREDDIE ALONE!!! |
deleted user 28.08.2005 16:31 |
:P He's never been a role model for me :P But he's damn fantastic! :P I don't think most of rock stars would be a nice role model for anyone ;) |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 16:38 |
mercuryqueen wrote: I bet more people on this earth could recite a Queen lyric before a bible verse, so who is god now? (Rhetorical question, Freddie Mercury was and is god)Excellent point, and you are most likely correct! <font color=green>Bren<font color=orange>ski wrote: how about living like Freddie did, and nailing a member of the the Cross?Nice one! <b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: However, the biblical Jesus is probably not as important as he is described. Most probably, he was one of the most important figures in the early version of the Jewish sect which later became Christianity, but to make their 'history' of events easier to follow, the acts and lives of many people were joined together in Jesus. Plus, of course, the dose of fiction, which is a natural consequence of the stories being transferred orally for well over 200 years before they were written down.Great post Thomas, and I agree with every word - except the last sentence. The majority of the stuff was written down 30-80 years after it "happened". |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 16:43 |
sorry, double post! |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 16:50 |
whoops, another double post! |
Carol! the Musical 28.08.2005 16:58 |
vivival wrote: Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model. His lifetime was nothing but engaging in promiscious sex with thousands of untold men, battling endless heroin addictions, excessive selfishness, materialism, loneliness, sodomy, and he didn't do nothing but become addicted to morphine and/or barbituates and engage in sodomy with over 1,500 gay men in his short little life. Freddie Mercury died as a very, very evil man. The one and ONLY role model for you is the Lord Jesus Christ, he shall be the role model for you, Unlike Freddie Mercury, who was nothing but a very, very evil man. How sad! How tragic! Where is he now? HELL!How do you know he´s in Hell?? Are you God? I don´t think so. |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 17:17 |
Yeah, I saw your post... sorry about the double posts, confusing everything!
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: I got the dating of the gospels from my dad, who studied Comparative Religion, and of whom I thus expect an educated answer. He told me the scientifically accepted dating for the gospels is that they were written between AD 125 and AD 150, so around 100-120 years after the death of Christ. The only one earlier is the apocryphical "Gospel Of Thomas", which was apparently written by Judas Thomas Didymus, who was an apostle and supposedly a brother of Jesus, but this gospel consists of no more than a list of quotes by Jesus.Yeah, the Gospel of Thomas is thought by some to have been written as early as the 50s. But wow, that's the latest dating I've ever seen for the canonical gospels. I'm very curious... on what grounds did your dad's instructor (or books) date them so late? Personally, I agree with the (now) standard dating of 70s for Mark, 80s-90s for Matt/Luke, and 100+ for John. You can see the so-called "Christology" getting stronger and stronger if you read it chronologically as such. The fact that the gospels appear in the bible anachronistically themselves, not to mention they appear before Paul's writings, which is also anachronistic, has always bothered me very much, as it has led to massive misinterpretation throughout history - but that's a whole other topic! I'm no scholar myself, but there is much evidence in the gospels that they were written after the temple was destroyed (70 CE), but I'm not so sure about a later time bracket. So I'm curious to hear your reply! |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 17:32 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: I'll have to ask my dad about that in the morning, I'll post his answer tomorrow (it's 23:30 here, so he's asleep).Alright, I'm looking forward to reading it. If I don't come here in a day or two, then just email me about it! Hahaha, you can see how I edited my post, because you quoted the original. :P |
SomebodyWhoLoves 28.08.2005 17:41 |
You know..the kingdom of Heaven isn't a democracy. God doesn't tally up the votes of it's citizens to define what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. You people act as if your opinions of what is right and wrong count. They don't matter. Only God's inviolate Laws matter. And God shall judge the world through these laws. Can you deal with that? According to God's laws, Freddie was a sinner, and like any other human, unless he believed in Jesus Christ, he is destined to hell. |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2005 17:45 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: According to God's laws, Freddie was a sinner, and like any other human, unless he believed in Jesus Christ, he is destined to hell.Who are you to say who God is, what God wants, or if there is even a God? You cannot present a statement as fact containing something which hasn't been proven. Do not quote scripture, as that is dubious grounds for presenting facts, for almost countless reasons. God is not an absolute, because not everyone agrees. The fact that I'm writing this message on a computer is an absolute. Nobody can debate that. God is not an absolute. If one chooses to accept God as an absolute for themselves, that is a different story, however. But suffice to say, I'm ashamed to be living in a world (in the 21st century, at that) where religious bigots such as yourself are still allowed to walk the streets and talk like you do. I can only hope you'll grow up and realize that you don't have to accept a bunch of 1900-year-old mythology as truth to live a good and healthy life. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 28.08.2005 18:02 |
Keep in mind that another absolute is that one day, we all die. Death is a certainty. Your theories about the afterlife are nothing more than fanciful wishes. The difference between you and me is, I've become saved, and have had my spiritual eyes open. You are still in the dark, clueless about what life really is. You haven't a clue, and if you don't wise up, you will one day have to answer to God for your life. |
WhiteQueen16 28.08.2005 18:03 |
OK, you know what, this post is stupid and immature... Freddie was just like evryone else in this shitty world. He's only human for crying out loud. He made mistakes, but you know, everyone does it's not something you can prevent from happening. I love Freddie, always have and to think that people are talking shit about him now he's gone is very disrespectful. I'm not saying I liked everything Freddie did, but it was his life to live and he lived it the way he wanted to. How dare you say that his lifestyle was a bad thing. It wasn't the best thing, but it was what he wanted. You guys who disagree with what Freddie did with his own life just need to shut up, because not everyone lives the same way and it's not like he was the only musician who lived that way so just stop. The point that I'm trying to make is that he was only human, so he made plenty of mistakes that changed his life, but who are you to say how he should have been.... God, chill out!! |
Oszmercury 28.08.2005 18:55 |
SIMPLE FREDDIE MERCURY = FREDDIE MERCURY |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 28.08.2005 21:27 |
oh god...why am i even doing this...ok, where does it say that Freddie abused alcohol (or drugs, for that matter) and who cares if he was bloody homosexual? what should that have to do with anything? he lived that lifestyle and personally, it doesnt matter to me, because it was what he chose to do and i cant do anything about it, so why whine about it? and AIDs has nothing to do with promiscuity (i probably spelled it wrong, but u get it) yes, it increases the chance, but it's something everybody struggles with! as for being a role model...yes, he can be for some, inculding me. he was a great man who's music changed the lives of many. i also get from him that he had a very kind heart and a strong soul. he remains to be one of my role models.......now Roger, on the other hand.....^.^ |
Forever88 28.08.2005 23:52 |
Remeber that Jesus Had no Use for the so called righteuos. Be careful How you use JC as a reference because he problay would have forgiven FM for his so called sins as you call them....forever 88 dad |
L.Cooper 29.08.2005 00:57 |
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. |
deleted user 29.08.2005 05:38 |
He's nice though, he loves kids. Who cares about his flamboyant lifestyle. |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 29.08.2005 11:18 |
i get your point, but u cant just say that Christianity is all about power....unless you've had experience with that religion, you shouldn't judge it. that's alos something that's been going on for years... |
vinny2256_ 29.08.2005 11:37 |
lol this site is saturated in trolls. threads like these should be instantly deleted. Honestly, some people are extremely sad creating topics such as these. PS This is 2006 and the devil is dead. If we're dealing with anything, it's an angry God so stop describing Freddie Mercury or anyone else in such a manner that simply relfects your own human nature and its pathetic weaknesses to scorn people you dont even know or will ever know. |
Lord Blackadder 29.08.2005 15:33 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:I know what happens after death. Nothing. You die then that's it.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Keep in mind that another absolute is that one day, we all die. Death is a certainty. Your theories about the afterlife are nothing more than fanciful wishes. The difference between you and me is, I've become saved, and have had my spiritual eyes open. You are still in the dark, clueless about what life really is. You haven't a clue, and if you don't wise up, you will one day have to answer to God for your life.I see it as you being deluded and close-minded. You don't, and cannot, know what happens after death, and by stating that there is a God, your God, and dismissing everyone else, you are doing the same thing religion has been doing for centuries: brainwashing people into being mindless zombies to aid the top layer of organized religion. Christianity isn't about God, it's about power. Also what you said about Christianity is true. |
The Real Wizard 29.08.2005 17:10 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Keep in mind that another absolute is that one day, we all die. Death is a certainty.Thanks, captain obvious. Your theories about the afterlife are nothing more than fanciful wishes.What makes your theory any more plausible than anyone else's? The difference between you and me is, I've become saved, and have had my spiritual eyes open. You are still in the dark, clueless about what life really is. You haven't a clue, and if you don't wise up, you will one day have to answer to God for your life.Should I be scared because I haven't bought into your medeval religious cult? Please, don't even try to go down this path with me, or with anyone else for that matter. You are completely brainwashed; but if you're happy where you are, then stay there and keep your misinformed and 21st-century-incompatible beliefs to yourself. We aren't interested in listening to your judgements and bigotry. It is not an infinitely big God that you believe in. It is a little God in your pocket that you pull out whenever you feel the need to label people for doing what your precious little book says is wrong. In your current state, you are nothing more than a lemming like millions of others. You do not live on faith. What you have is fear; fear of what happens after death, and you have been manipulated into believing that you have made a correct decision. Nothing more, nothing less. *3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: i get your point, but u cant just say that Christianity is all about power....unless you've had experience with that religion, you shouldn't judge it. that's alos something that's been going on for years...Religious experience... something that has never once been put into logical and understandable terms for those who have not "experienced". And the only reason why Christianity has lasted through the ages *is* completely because of power. The church was the authority. Heretics who openly said they believed in something else would pay for it in one way or another... often with death. Read up on the inquisition as a prime example. It wasn't until the breakthroughs of science that this system of power started to decline, and it has been declining ever since. Science is too strong. Logical thought and rationality are also strong. They will inevitably render religion to be obsolete. Give it a few centuries. Sam Harris has it right. Anyone who is willing to think for themselves should read his book "The End Of Faith". Groundbreaking, for some of us - but as a whole, our world is not ready for a thinker like Sam Harris. ThomasQuinn, what's the good word, my friend? :) |
The Real Wizard 29.08.2005 18:13 |
No worries! Trust me - I am king forgetful. If it doesn't get written down, it doesn't get done. |
deleted user 29.08.2005 18:45 |
vivival wrote: Freddie Mercury's life was nothing but heroin addictions, materialism, excessive selfishness, sins, loneliness, excessive rudeness, sodomy, fornication, and he didn't do nothing but have sex with a countless number of men and become addicted to morphine and/or barbituates in his short little life. Freddie Mercury died as a very, very evil man. How sad! How tragic! Where is he now? (hell!) Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model. The only role model for YOU is the Lord Jesus Christ. Freddie Mercury was a very evil man that shall be condemned, but the Lord Jesus Christ gave up his life for you.Oh, its you again, the one that started the thread about Freddie which is like 200... pages long. You're just a little bitch. |
deleted user 29.08.2005 18:46 |
Vivial, how come on your profile it says your favorite member is Freddie when you insult him all the time? |
groover 29.08.2005 19:19 |
vinny2256_ wrote: PS This is 2006 and the devil is dead.shit. I didnt get the memo. |
vinny2256_ 29.08.2005 19:44 |
LeroyBrown11 wrote:lolvivival wrote: Freddie Mercury's life was nothing but heroin addictions, materialism, excessive selfishness, sins, loneliness, excessive rudeness, sodomy, fornication, and he didn't do nothing but have sex with a countless number of men and become addicted to morphine and/or barbituates in his short little life. Freddie Mercury died as a very, very evil man. How sad! How tragic! Where is he now? (hell!) Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model. The only role model for YOU is the Lord Jesus Christ. Freddie Mercury was a very evil man that shall be condemned, but the Lord Jesus Christ gave up his life for you.Oh, its you again, the one that started the thread about Freddie which is like 200... pages long. You're just a little bitch. |
mrvision 29.08.2005 20:41 |
One of the most oft’-quoted verses in the Bible is Matthew 7:1—“Judge not, that you be not judged.” Those engaged in immoral behavior frequently quote this verse when attempting to defend their sinful lifestyle. Certain religionists quote it when being challenged to prove that their questionable practices are backed by biblical authority. A belligerent teenager might be heard reciting this phrase to his parents when they inquire about his occasional association with “the wrong crowd.” Skeptics even quote Matthew 7:1 in an attempt to show an inconsistency in Jesus’ teachings. From church pews to barstools, from the “Bible belt” to Hollywood, Matthew 7:1 is ripped from its context and bellowed as some kind of scare tactic: “Do you dare judge me? Jesus said, ‘Judge not, that you be not judged.’ ” Allegedly, Jesus meant that we cannot pass judgment on anyone at anytime. |
rc 29.08.2005 22:00 |
he's dead, can't we let the man rest in peace? we don't care what he did. we're interested in the music. (at least, i am.) besides, he said in an interview one time that he'd rather go to hell; that he would meet more interesting people there :) |
SergeantPepperDG 29.08.2005 22:17 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Keep in mind that another absolute is that one day, we all die. Death is a certainty. Your theories about the afterlife are nothing more than fanciful wishes. The difference between you and me is, I've become saved, and have had my spiritual eyes open. You are still in the dark, clueless about what life really is. You haven't a clue, and if you don't wise up, you will one day have to answer to God for your life.Have you ever seen the movie "Saved"? I know it's sort of a corny teen comedy, but I really liked it. You remind me a lot of Mandy Moore's character, Hillary Faye. Surprisingly, Mandy Moore is a lot better actress than singer. |
SergeantPepperDG 29.08.2005 22:18 |
*double post* |
Fenderek 30.08.2005 07:33 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Keep in mind that another absolute is that one day, we all die. Death is a certainty. Your theories about the afterlife are nothing more than fanciful wishes. The difference between you and me is, I've become saved, and have had my spiritual eyes open. You are still in the dark, clueless about what life really is. You haven't a clue, and if you don't wise up, you will one day have to answer to God for your life.It's funny, when deeply religious people forget that one of the 7 deadly sins is PRIDE- what they do is think that they got hold of one and only truth and see anybody who didn't as worse... Pathetic- and apparently a sin... There was also another thing "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Yet every single time when someone passes a judgment on another person- puts HIMSELF in front of a God, therefore thinking of self as a God, trying to be equal (by judging). Isn't it why we lost paradise (apparently) in the first place? And not to forget the famous quote "that is it wrong for anyone to concentrate his attention on the speck in his brother's eye, and while thus occupied, to ignore the beam in his own eye" or even "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged" and "With the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you". I always find THOSE religious people the most annoying- in fact I really hate them. Thinking they KNOW (nothing bad about it as long as they don't think they're better than anyone because of that), forcing you to feel and think the same as they do, hating (or at least condemning) anything and anyone who lives in a different way... "Nothing to kill or die for / and no religion too" (J. Lennon) Is the organised religion the worst thing humankind came up with? Yes, that's what I believe. What matters is INSIDE, in your own heart. Anyone trying to change someone else's believs is trying to play God- apparently that's the sin... But do the religious people care? No, they do it in the RIGHT CAUSE... Just like crusaiders... |
Mr. Scully 30.08.2005 07:57 |
As long as people believe in SOMETHING, it's perfectly fine. But when these religious fanatics (as seen on this board) are trying to persuade us about that heaven/hell shit and other stuff, I almost feel sorry for them. Brainwashing just like in Middle Ages. I don't believe in any god and I don't believe in Freddie Mercury. I believe in myself. Love Shrek's first post in this thread :-) |
Bob The Shrek 30.08.2005 08:27 |
TarHeelDDS2005 wrote: I don't agree with what Vival said, but Shrek, you're fucking ignorant. It's amazing you weren't struck by lightning after saying that. If I could see you I would punch your sorry ass right in the face.Sorry I haven't replied to this sooner but I have been standing outside in the rain for a few days to see if I would get hit by lightning. Also, my arse doesn't have a face, it's just an arse - but if it DID have a face, I am sure it would look just like you. |
Fenderek 30.08.2005 09:15 |
Mr. Scully wrote: Love Shrek's first post in this thread :-)Yep, although I've missed it first- had no intention of reading more than the innital post |
SomebodyWhoLoves 30.08.2005 10:18 |
What you people don't understand is, we are commanded by Jesus Christ to go and preach the good news to the world! Of course you don't like our message. In fact, you hate our message, and hate Christianity. And you hate God. What mankind wants is freedom. Freedom from rules and laws made by God. What you don't understand is, mankind is in open rebellion, like a terrorist, against the Kingdom of God. You hate God's ways, and his Laws. You want the freedom to live your life as you choose to live it, and anyone who tells you that you MUST live according to God's ways, you deem ignorant or brainwashed. You don't believe in God, instead, choosing to believe in Evolution. Examine anything created in this world. A simple cell. Who created that Cell? Even a simple cell has organs, and each organs has functions. This means that an intelligent mind had to design all the intricate parts of that cell. Who created it? God. The bible tells us that the evidence of God is everywhere, in the creation itself, but mankind refuses to acknowledge THE God, and instead, worships idols of stone. Mankind inherently knows there is a God, but will not bow down to the True God, Jesus Christ. Therefore, you should know that all unbelievers will face the Judgement Day, and will be cast into everlasting damnation for their sins. Do you want to spend eternity in Hell? You are guaranteed to, if you continue to rebell against THE God. |
Fenderek 30.08.2005 11:10 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: What you people don't understand is, we are commanded by Jesus Christ to go and preach the good news to the world! Of course you don't like our message. In fact, you hate our message, and hate Christianity. And you hate God. What mankind wants is freedom. Freedom from rules and laws made by God. What you don't understand is, mankind is in open rebellion, like a terrorist, against the Kingdom of God. You hate God's ways, and his Laws. You want the freedom to live your life as you choose to live it, and anyone who tells you that you MUST live according to God's ways, you deem ignorant or brainwashed. You don't believe in God, instead, choosing to believe in Evolution. Examine anything created in this world. A simple cell. Who created that Cell? Even a simple cell has organs, and each organs has functions. This means that an intelligent mind had to design all the intricate parts of that cell. Who created it? God. The bible tells us that the evidence of God is everywhere, in the creation itself, but mankind refuses to acknowledge THE God, and instead, worships idols of stone. Mankind inherently knows there is a God, but will not bow down to the True God, Jesus Christ. Therefore, you should know that all unbelievers will face the Judgement Day, and will be cast into everlasting damnation for their sins. Do you want to spend eternity in Hell? You are guaranteed to, if you continue to rebell against THE God.There's already one guy walking up and down the Oxford Street and talking bollocks JUST LIKE YOU- you can join him... He's been doing it for years... Preaching good news is one thing- but tell me, what "good" did you just tell me? That because I am the way HE created me I'm going to burn in hell? That I hate something (how the fuck do you know hat I feel and think???) and that basically I'm a bastard who'll not enter the Kingdom yada yada... Thank you very much- I'll stick with my view and ain't going to bow to anybody... And not because I'm too proud- on the contrary- I don't believe in God who's got human complexes and needs my bowing to feel better about himself. If he really is a TRUE friend o'mine and he's so graet and all he'll take me for what I am... If not- I simply don't give a fuck... I chose to believe in perfect God with perfect Love. What you're offering me is some Monster whom I should fear all the time... And tell me one more thing- if someone is really a decent person- not because is shittles scared of going to hell, but for no reason whatsoever- yet is- let's say- Muslim or even ateist- will this person burn in hell? Thank you very much- but you're right- I don't give a fuck about "god" like that... Thank you for sucha "wonderful" message of love... Thank you- that's it from me- now I'll stand next to Shrek and we'll both wait for the fucking lightning... D'you mind some company Bob? PS Did you ever hear about the free will- something that God apparently gave us? So we have a choice to believe in what we want and with the same measures we judge we're going to be judged. If taht's the case REALL- I'm not worried. You should... |
Bob The Shrek 30.08.2005 11:59 |
How can I hate something I don't believe in? That's like saying I hate Martians when there is no evidence of life on Mars. Religion is just a belief, nothing more, nothing less. A simple belief. You believe in your God, I choose not to. I believe in the choice of freewill and I expect that same courtesy back. Saying that I will burn in hell for all eternity is a waste of time because I do not believe in Heaven or Hell! An individual believing in their God is okay, it's when they organise it that things start going wrong. Look through history and present day events to see how religion is destroying mankind in the name of their God, way more than us non-believers could, if we wanted to - which we don't. I just want to wake up each morning, go to work, earn some money, take a holiday now and again, see my family and die in peace. Not much to ask for. As for being a terrorist against God and his laws - I am a Citizen of the United Kingdom, I adhere to the laws set by my Government. I may not like some of them but I am, basically, a law abiding person. The basis of those laws probably apply to most Western countries and I imagine can be traced back to the teachings in the Bible, when religion had a greater bearing on society than it does today. Therefore, your assertation that we are rebelling against 'God's' law is a crock of shit. Anyway - the bottom line is: you will not convince me that there is a God, I will not convince you that there isn't - even though there in no absolute proof that your God exists, yet there is plenty of scientific proof for the theory of Evolution. And you know what? It really doesn't matter! I could care less, it really isn't important in the grand scheme of things. We should all live our lives as we see fit, love our families & friends and enjoy life the best we can. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 30.08.2005 16:30 |
There's already one guy walking up and down the Oxford Street and talking bollocks JUST LIKE YOU- you can join him... He's been doing it for years...Its me. j/k. Preaching good news is one thing- but tell me, what "good" did you just tell me? That because I am the way HE created me I'm going to burn in hell? That I hate something (how the fuck do you know hat I feel and think???) and that basically I'm a bastard who'll not enter the Kingdom yada yada... Thank you very much-The good news is good because Salvation is possible even in our day. It is good because the bible tells us that ONLY through Jesus Christ can mankind ESCAPE the great wrath of God that is awaiting for us. One day, in the near future, God will return with an angry shout, and the heavens will split into two, and all of mankind will quail and tremble. They will tremble because the party is over. Their doom has come, and they will be judged and found guilty, and cast into eternal hell forever more. This is why the gospel is so wonderful. It is possible for you to escape this certain doom, only if you repent and seek after God and ask him for mercy. And God is forgiving, and patient, and full of love. I'll stick with my view and ain't going to bow to anybody... And not because I'm too proud- on the contrary- I don't believe in God who's got human complexes and needs my bowing to feel better about himself. If he really is a TRUE friend o'mine and he's so graet and all he'll take me for what I am... If not- I simply don't give a fuck...Read what you wrote. Are you not in clear rebellion? Whether you want to admit it or not, the reason why you stick with your "view" and the reason why you don't bow to anyone, is because you have your pride. Can you see this is open rebellion? How different are you from a stubborn child who refuses to listen to his patient mother, and disobeys her? You are acting like a petulant, stubborn little child. But God assures us that EVERY head will bow, and EVERY knee SHALL bend on that day of Judgement. God is God. With a word, He created the world, and all the things in it. You cannot resist God almighty. I chose to believe in perfect God with perfect Love. What you're offering me is some Monster whom I should fear all the timeGod is perfect, and has perfect Love. But God's definition of Love is quite different from Mans. Consider what you just wrote. You define love as grace, mercy. You think that no matter what mankind does, God should simply forgive and forgive although his laws are violated left and right. Is that a just and good God of integrity? It is like a sheriff ignoring the criminals of a small town. Would you as a resident of this town think a sheriff that neglects his duty is a good and loving sheriff? When anyone commits a sin, who does that person sin against? If a man kills another man, who has he really sinned against? The obvious answer is, the poor victim of his crime. But the real answer is, that murderer has committed sin against God and God alone BECAUSE mankind answers to noone but God. God created us, and to HIM we must answer our life to. So..is a God who forgives and allows mankind to violate God's law a good and just God? God has PERFECT integrity. This perfect integrity DEMANDS that God punish lawbreakers. God states, the wages of sin is death. Is a God who IGNORES sin a God of integrity? No. A truly perfect God of INTEGRITY WILL PUNISH Law-breakers, and sinners. Then How can God redeem anyone? Shouldn't all mankind be cast into hell? That is where the grace of God is revealed. God in the form of Jesus Christ came to DIE for mankind so that mankind has a way out. And this price that Jesus paid was not small. No way. God paid the full price of our sins, and the price was so terrible, that even God, Jesus, asked God, the Father, "Father, is it possible to |
The Real Wizard 30.08.2005 17:42 |
mrvision wrote: Skeptics even quote Matthew 7:1 in an attempt to show an inconsistency in Jesus’ teachings.The reason there are inconsistencies is because the scriptures were written and manipulated by different groups of people over decades in time. Chances are that very few (if any at all) of the words and acts attributed to Jesus are actually historically true. Actually, here's one thing about Christianity I never understood, and anyone can answer this: If Jesus is God in human form, then why was he depicted so many times as praying to God? Why would he pray to himself? And why does nobody catch onto this? Or is there a convenient loophole that says when he was human, he wasn't God for that moment? Whatever it is, it's absolutely ridiculous. SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: It is good because the bible tells us that ONLY through Jesus Christ can mankind ESCAPE the great wrath of God that is awaiting for us. God is forgiving, and patient, and full of love.There's a nice contradiction. There is a wrath, yet he is full of love? It's obvious that you have different attributes of God for each of the different points in conversation when they are convenient to you. Of course you ignored my post, where I said what you live is not *faith*, but rather, you live a life of *fear*; fear of what you think may happen to you after you die. Imposing a life of fear is what organized religion is all about, and it has succeeded for far too long. Thank goodness it's slowly dying - but too slowly! I think I told you this once before: Your name should be "SomebodyWhoHates", not "SomebodyWhoLoves". If you can judge and condemn people to some kind of hell because they don't accept your religion as you do, then you are definitely a hater, not one who is full of love and compassion for all others. Just for believing you have it right (with NO grounds of proof), and that the majority of the world has it wrong, you are a very selfish human being. You are the one who needs to be condemned in some way, not us. You are acting like a petulant, stubborn little child.And you ARE someone who has not yet grown out of childhood religious beliefs they were manipulated with. Religion does not deal with asking how we relate to God and how we should live and treat our fellow human beings, as many would say. It deals with how you relate to God and to what extent that interferes with your treating your fellow human beings decently. Ethics, used by the rest of us, deals with how we treat our fellow human beings, without magical books telling us that we need to mistreat certain people whether we want to or not. This is how the rational of us think. Religious folk see it a whole different way because they have been manipulated from birth, and in most cases will not entertain a way to see the world with eyes other than their own. That is why relativism will ultimately succeed. Give us one shred of evidence that anything you're saying is true for you, me, or anyone. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 30.08.2005 18:30 |
I didn't ignore you GH. I read your post, but didn't have the time to respond.
Actually, here's one thing about Christianity I never understood, and anyone can answer this: If Jesus is God in human form, then why was he depicted so many times as praying to God? Why would he pray to himself?The question is, Who was Jesus? Was he God, or was he man? The answer is, Jesus was called both the son of God, and the son of Man. While he (Jesus) never stopped being God and was therefore God in his entirety, Jesus Christ also never stopped being Man, and while he was alive on earth, was as much of a human as we were. This is a bit mysterious. How can God become man? The bible tells us that God loves us, and that God is humble, and meek. And through the life of Jesus, we can see the character of God himself. God humbled himself to commit himself to become a lowly man, and live as we do, in the flesh. God, who is infinitely more glorious than we are, discarded his glory, and humbled himself to become flesh and bone. Can you not see that God loves us? There are many reasons why God HAD to come as man. I will give you a brief explanation why. In the garden of Eden, God had created Adam and Eve. As a son of God, Adam was the undisputed king of creation. He was Lord over all the animals and all the earth. At the same time, God had also allowed satan to enter the garden as a serpent. satan was an angel who was the most beautiful of angels, and satan hated both God and mankind because satan was envious of man's position as son of God. Angels were created to serve God, and satan rebelled along with his fallen angels, conspiring to defeat God and replace God as God. satan, who is the most cunning deceiver, the bible tells us he is a MASTER deceiver, plotted man's downfall. And God allowed it. God tested mankind in the Garden of Eden. He tested mankind several ways. God tested mankind by giving us the FIRST LAW. A law is a commandment, and through any law, the possibility of sin exists. No, God did not create sin, but God created an environment to test mankind whether he would remain faithful. God created mankind perfectly, perfect in wisdom, and without sin. He had total free will. The first Law was: Thou shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, nor shall though touch it. Now, God had furnished many trees that bore delicious fruits of all kinds. Yet the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was tempting in appearance. Remember, God created Adam as the King of the earth, and God commanded Adam to gain DOMINION over the earth. What did God mean by this? Why would a king need to gain DOMINION if he was king? The reason is, satan was also present in the garden, and he came with an ill purpose. To destroy Mankind, and defeat him. So satan, in his cunning, first attacked Eve. Eve was already tempted by the fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and satan took advantage of this. satan deceived Eve, saying, No, you shall not die if you eat of the fruit. But you shall become as God himself, to know good and evil. And so Eve took the fruit, and ate of it, and gave it to Adam her husband. And immediately their eyes became open, and they saw they were naked. In one stroke, satan caused the entire race of Mankind to become naked to the Law of God. Naked and vulnerable because NOW, mankind was under Judgment because they had sinned against God. satan defeated Mankind, and thus, satan became the victorious new King of all the earth. Because of man's sins, God cursed the world, and humanity. And to this day, we face certain death because of sin. In order to redeem mankind, God could not simply take on the sins of the world upon himself. No. First, God had to defeat the king of the world, satan. Therefore, God subjected himself to the king of the world, and all his temptations. God allowed himself, God, to be tested by satan and God. So, Jesus Christ |
SomebodyWhoLoves 30.08.2005 18:46 |
As I was saying, satan did not understand God's true plan. Satan conspired and plotted to have Jesus killed, and thought with the death of Jesus Christ, the son of God, satan would finally gain victory over God. But Jesus was born to be slain to redeem mankind at the great cost to himself. Jesus allowed satan to successfully plot and nail Jesus so that he died on the cross. And when that happened, the heavens shook with a mighty sound, and the earth trembled. And the veil curtain of the temple split into two. Something terrible has happened. Something great and terrible. We read what had happened in later books of the Bible. We read that rather than satan gaining victory over God, it was God who defeated Satan. Three days later, Jesus Christ was risen from death, resurrected! He paid the equivalent of us spending eternity in hell, and gained a costly victory for us. In doing so, he defeated Satan and we read that there was a tremendous battle in heaven. Satan and his angels were crushed by God and cast out of heaven. Previously, satan had access to heaven, going to and fro from heaven, but now, satan was wounded and cast into the earth. He was defeated utterly. Before this event, the world was engulfed in a spiritual ruins. People were tormented by evil spirits, possessed. There were supernatural things like demons, and life was generally grim. Back in those days, evil spirits aka demons were real, and had total access to do with man as they saw fit. But now, with the defeat of Satan, God imprisoned satan and for the next 2000 years or so, the world was free to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel prospereed and grew until it reached every corner of the world. It was God's plan that the gospel be preached. From a tiny religion that started with Jesus and his 12 disciples, it has miraculously grown to convert people from all over the world. And so..now that period of time is over. Within a few years, this age will end, and God will return with a triumph. God will judge all those who did not believe in Him, and will gain vengeance. As I have stated, you should be VERY VERY FEARFUL, VERY FRIGHTENED. We are VERY CLOSE TO THE END and the end could happen any time. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 30.08.2005 19:00 |
What is the future of mankind? I'll tell you. The bible has MUCH to say about this. I'm a saved born again Christian. Truly. I know it sounds pompous and arrogant, but no. I tremble and humbly say that it is only by God's grace that I am saved. Truly. What if God did not save me? I'd be lost and blinded just as the rest of mankind. If one is truly saved, truly born again, My...that person has EVERYTHING going for him. This is why I would EASILY WITHOUT THOUGHT cast aside EVERYTHING for following God. Money. Women. even Family, friends. This is why I totally understand Abraham when he without thought, was willing to sacrifice his son Issac, his only son when God commanded him to, testing him. This is why I do not HESITATE to be a fool, a freak, a reject of society AND THE WORLD, to follow Christ. Because I know what is the future for those who love him. And it is glorious. Super duper glorious. More than we can imagine. Right now, the bible tells us, we see things darkly as through a dark glass. We have hints and tidbits of information, but we do not truly know what God has in store for us, his children. It is super magnificent. NOTHING in this life can compare to that future. Paul who wrote many books of the New Testament, saw a glimpse of this future, and he was FORBIDDEN to reveal what he saw. He only said that the future is exceedingly glorious for those who love him. And many other things are written. We have clues. As Adam was the KING of this world when he was created, so too, believers shall be made KINGS. We shall REIGN with Christ as kings. Kings over what? God mentions cities. He will give us rulership over cities and perhaps worlds. We do not know. On the other hand. What will happen to those who do NOT believe in God? The bible has LOTS AND LOTS TO SAY. And I tell you, the things I read, I am shaken to my bones and frightened. As wonderful as the future shall be for believers, the future will be SUPER SUPER TERRIBLE FOR UNBELIEVERS! HELL IS REAL. No, it is not a physical place, but it is a condition. If you are not saved, you will spend ETERNITY in a place of silence, a place of gnashing of teeth! A place of weeping. A place where the smoke of their TORMENT RISES FOREVER AND EVER! My..that is UGLY UGLY LANGUAGE, isn't it? So tell me this. Do you want to exchange oh..60, 70, maybe 80 years of worldly pleasure for an ETERNITY OF HELL? Hmm??? Well that is EXACTLY what you are doing if you MOCK God, and REJECT his salvation plan. God has PROVIDED MANKIND A WAY OUT. It is the ONLY WAY OUT for mankind. THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST ONLY. Because only JESUS CHRIST made the payment for our sins. That is what separates Christianity from all the other religons in the world. Other religions do not answer the sin question. Well my friends, if you want to go ahead and live it up for the few remaining years this planet has, then be my guest but you are FOOLISHLY GUARANTEEING YOURSELF THAT YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL! Why would any reasonable person want that? |
Janet 30.08.2005 19:18 |
This thread has ceased to be about Queen in any way, shape or form. This argument should be taken to the personal section, or better yet ended, as neither side is going to concede anything. |
Fenderek 31.08.2005 04:31 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: but you are FOOLISHLY GUARANTEEING YOURSELF THAT YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL! Why would any reasonable person want that?Well... If the other option is listening to people like you... Geeeeez- that's like hell already.... Man, you're so brainwashed it's almost unbelievable. What you're telling me that I'm a sinner, a bad thing right from the start, since birth. You're constantly threatening me with hell. The GOOD message? Oh no- I CAN be saved if I beg some entity; I'm bad from the start (what did I do as a 1 day old?) and need to beg forgiveness... Sorry- but that's just human way to manipulate masses- when people fear, they'll do what they're told. That's an argument enough for me to realise that the whole Christianity was created by MAN, not GOD. You say God is perfect and than give me proofs that he's not... Why would anyone create something unperfect, bad from the start? What's the bloody point? To have someone praisisng him? Was he that bored? Or maybe he felt bad about himself? WHAT'S THE POINT??? Apparently God created humans in His image. So how come we are bad from the start? Is God bad from the start as well? Oh no- wait- we lost it, when Adam and Eve ate the bloody apple... How come than they were foolish enough, PROUD ENOUGH to do that? They weren't perfect from the start if it was that easy for satan to convince them to do it. THEREFORE- either God fucked up when creating a man, or this whole "image of God" is not so perfect afterall... Whatever- I believe that it all makes sense.What you're telling me- doesn't. At all. You contradict yourself every second sentence. You use word LOVE nad than few seconds later HELL, BURN etc. And it's you who is wrong- it's the man's love that it's not perfect, that it's not forgiving- we have a conditional love here on Earth... God's love is perfect- therefore UNCONDITIONAL, something that we humans cannot grasp, understand, give... There's a point for us being here- but that's not to fear and do exactly as we're told... It's to rediscover our greatness, the fact that we're part of it all... And everytime you make a mistake you learn something new. In Christianinty mistakes are bad- you'll burn in hell- you must do this and this, otherwise... So you end up doing nothing, you don't SEARCH- you're scared and stick with what you're told since you're a kid. And I believe SEARCHING is the whole point of it all... I dunno- you can burn or be saved or whatever the hell you want. i'm going to stick with what I believe- and still trying to be a better man every day, treat everybody with respect and love. If I'm going to burn in hell after that just because some stupid guy named Adam ate apple- I really, REALLY don't give a flying toss... One very last thing: Luke 6:37 "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: release, and ye shall be released" |
Fenderek 31.08.2005 10:46 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: Stop trying to convert us, it's not only in vain, it's also extremely arrogant and disrespectful.And it's a sin :P And in the nutshell The weird preacher called SomebodyWhoLoves "The bible has LOTS AND LOTS TO SAY. And I tell you, the things I read, I am shaken to my bones and frightened. As wonderful as the future shall be for believers, the future will be SUPER SUPER TERRIBLE FOR UNBELIEVERS! HELL IS REAL. No, it is not a physical place, but it is a condition. If you are not saved, you will spend ETERNITY in a place of silence, a place of gnashing of teeth! A place of weeping. A place where the smoke of their TORMENT RISES FOREVER AND EVER! "The whole thing is based on being shitless scared. Thank you for such a perfect god. His perfect love is overwhelming me... Silence you said? No more people like you that is? Give some wine and women!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now!!!!! |
SomebodyWhoLoves 31.08.2005 10:52 |
No, you do not have a free will. Nor do you have the ability to save yourself. It is entirely up to God to save and redeem you. Humans are so arrogant and so self-deceived to think they have free will, but they don't. When satan defeated Adam and Eve, he in principle, enslaved the entire human race. A slave does not have a choice. We're slaves of sin, and to satan. Try this little experiment: For 1 day, try not to think a bad thought. Try to be perfect, for ONE SINGLE DAY. And you shall find that you can't. Does that not prove that you are slaves of sin? |
Fenderek 31.08.2005 10:59 |
Well I'm sorry but I thought the Bible said something about free will, didn't it? You're going to tell me now the Bible is wrong? No- I'm not perfect. But i'm trying to be good, and better everyday. Not for some vengefull god, but for myslef. With every single day I'm trying to treat everybody with respect and love. I'm sure I'm failing many times but I'm truly trying. If after that I'm going to hell than be it- THIS god can have my middle finger. And if i'm a slave of a sin, than what about being created to God's image? I repeat my previous question- did he fuck up the job of creating me and you or is he as weak as Adam and Eve were? Anyway- MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU... :D |
SomebodyWhoLoves 31.08.2005 11:22 |
Then you do not have a free will either, yet it is your free will that pushes you to try and convert us. So you are then sinning. Well I'm sorry but I thought the Bible said something about free will, didn't it? You're going to tell me now the Bible is wrong?Depends on what you mean by Free Will. Do we have free will to decide what to eat? or what to wear? Of course. But the FREE WILL I was talking about pertains to sin, and to salvation. When it comes to sin, and to salvation, human beings do not have FREE WILL. We are slaves of sin and to satan. My little experiment proves this is true. When God looked down the corridors of time, he saw everyone who would ever exist. And what did God say? Read Romans 3: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Does this not aptly describe humanity as a whole? No- I'm not perfect. But i'm trying to be good, and better everyday. Not for some vengefull god, but for myslef. With every single day I'm trying to treat everybody with respect and love. I'm sure I'm failing many times but I'm truly trying. If after that I'm going to hell than be it- THIS god can have my middle finger.You cannot go to heaven through good works. That is what the JEWS tried to do. They tried to keep the LAW of God perfectly to obtain righteousness but in doing so, they blinded themselves to the grace of God. If there was a law that said, IF YOU DO THIS XXX YOU CAN ENTER HEAVEN, then we can become saved through our works. But there is no such Law. The only way we can obtain salvation is through Jesus Christ, who was the Sin Offering that satisified the Law of God. And if i'm a slave of a sin, than what about being created to God's image? I repeat my previous question- did he fuck up the job of creating me and you or is he as weak as Adam and Eve were?Adam and Eve were made in the Image of God. They were perfect. However, the moment they sinned, they were cursed by God and we no longer are children of God. Every single one of us are offsprings of Adam and Eve, and we are infected with sin. This is carried down from father to son, mother to daughter, so sin is passed from generation to generation. That is why Jesus had to be born from a virgin Mother. Jesus did not have a human father. If he did, then he too would have been infected with sin. Because he did not have a human father, he truly was the Second Adam ie Perfect human with Free Will in regards to Sin. This is why Jesus had to endure 40 days of testing by Satan, as the son of Man, the second Adam. And because Jesus is perfect God himself, he was perfectly withstood satan and his trials. Had Jesus succumbed and failed, then Satan would've instantly claimed victory not only of Earth, but of Heaven itself, and would have seated himself as God. But because Jesus succeeded, and because Jesus was resurrected and defeated satan, mankind has a second chance. Through Jesus, we can become true Children of God once more. |
Fenderek 31.08.2005 12:08 |
Adam and Eve were made in the Image of God. They were perfect. However, the moment they sinned, they were cursed by God and we no longer are children of GodNo- I'm sorry- can't you blody see it? If they were PERFECT they wouldn't have sinned!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have, so they weren't perefect in the begining after all!!!!!!!!! If they were created to the image of God and still sinned- what does it tell us about God? Gotcha! Man- do all deeply religious people contradict themselves? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 31.08.2005 12:30 |
Nice try but you forget that Adam and Eve were created perfectly, and with free will. They did not have a speck of sin in them, nor were they created with any defects that would cause them to sin. They were perfect with perfect wisdom and understanding. They perfectly understood the consequences of sinning, and what sin was. They also had perfect free will, free choice. God did not make them as robots without a free will. It is not God's fault that mankind stumbled and fell. We can only blame ourselves. Notice what happened after they sinned: And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. When God questioned Adam, who did Adam blame? Did Adam blame God? No, he blamed Eve although he should've really blamed himself because he took the fruit from Eve although he knew it was wrong. And when God questioned Eve, who did she blame? Not God, but Satan. Typical human behavior, eh? Like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar, he will blame anyone but himself. That is EXACTLY what you are doing. Blaming GOD instead of ourselves. No...if God was in anyway at fault here, God himself wouldn't be God anymore. God is perfect, through and through. Everything He does is perfect. |
The Real Wizard 31.08.2005 13:24 |
SomebodyWhoLoves:
You know nothing about the bible. All you are doing is quoting it, quoting it, and then quoting it some more. Memorizing the locations of key passages and spitting them out does not equate with biblical knowledge. You know nothing about its vast and complicated history of writings, translations, power struggles, and most important of all, its omissions. Did you know that the early church suppressed and destroyed countless writings from other (and equally valid) styles of Christianity? It is believed there were once hundreds of Gospels, and we were reduced to four (although many others have been discovered in the last century or so). But knowing your type, you will simply dismiss these writings as heresy, because that's the easy thing to do.
You have been taught from day one to read the bible literally, but that is not the way it was intended to be used. But since you most likely have no intentions to change that, then this is probably where our discussion should end. But I'll throw in a couple things more.
All I can recommend is for you to read some books by Bishop John Shelby Spong, Karen Armstrong, Marcus Borg, and Elaine Pagels - then you will learn a few things about the origins of scripture. Also, Remedial Christianity by Paul Alan Laughlin. Right now, it seems pretty obvious that you know nothing about the beginnings of your religion, and how it came to be what it is today. People like you are abusing it with your ignorance.
God allowed satan to come to Jesus, and tempt him for 40 days and 40 nights. Jesus suffered and endured all of satan's trials and tempations, and unlike Adam, Jesus was perfectly Obedient. And after 40 days, satan left him, and the angels aided Jesus, and strengthened him.For example, this is not a literal and historical story. It was a midrashic writing, meaning it was taken from an earlier Jewish story, and the writer put their own spin on it. The gospel writers were Jewish, so they took from their own beloved scriptures to create a new story about Jesus. Moses buggered off for 40 years, and Jesus for 40 days. Both Moses and Jesus went without food, both put God to the test, and both were tempted to worship someone other than God. Is it coincidence? No, it's called literature. Hundreds of NT stories were derived in this way. They were not meant to be read as literal accounts of history. They were meant to be used in synagogue worship, as it would be understood how the stories related to Judaism. Hope this helps - but I'm sure it probably won't. |
thePresence 31.08.2005 14:34 |
my gosh. this thread is a flaming pile of s###! no one should speak about religion on a public forum! |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 31.08.2005 14:52 |
we have free will...why do u think God lets us murder eachother...it doesnt mean its right, but he lets us do it...*sigh* sorry, im not trying to convert u guys or anything, but just voicing my opinion and seeing wut u guys have to say about it. i personally am starting to hate religion. i feel that religion and believing in something are two different things. i just wish that we would believe, worship, and get on with ourselves and stop fighting over it...we are not close-minded just because we believe in one thing. in fact, i know im not the only christian that has at least .1% of doubt that there is a god. its only human......and to SomebodyWhoLoves, stop trying to preach to these people! and u have no right in saying that they're going to hell. ur not perfect either, so stop judging everyone. take a look in the mirror, my friend. |
The Real Wizard 31.08.2005 14:56 |
Queen(and)PaulRodgersFan wrote: my gosh. this thread is a flaming pile of s###! no one should speak about religion on a public forum!Taking religion literally is a flaming pile of s###, yes - but its history can be fascinating. And who are you to say what is and isn't allowed to be discussed somewhere? Politics and religion shouldn't be taboo... everything should be talked about openly. But that's the reason why religion is still so dominating today, because far too many people believe they shouldn't question others about their faith. Right now it's a sad reality, but hopefully it will change. |
teleman 31.08.2005 15:00 |
I support people to have Faith. Organized religion is a crock IMHO |
Missy May 31.08.2005 15:10 |
mrvision wrote: One of the most oft’-quoted verses in the Bible is Matthew 7:1—“Judge not, that you be not judged.”Right on *virtual hi-five for mrvision* |
Missy May 31.08.2005 15:46 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:The good news is good because Salvation is possible even in our day. It is good because the bible tells us that ONLY through Jesus Christ can mankind ESCAPE the great wrath of God that is awaiting for us. One day, in the near future, God will return with an angry shout, and the heavens will split into two, and all of mankind will quail and tremble. They will tremble because the party is over. Their doom has come, and they will be judged and found guilty, and cast into eternal hell forever more.EXACTLY! Get the words you used there "WRATH", "ANGRY SHOUT", "QUAIL AND TREMBLE", "DOOM" why would people want to believe in someone who will ultimatly bring them "DOOM".Read what you wrote. Are you not in clear rebellion?He may be in "rebellion" as you called it but at least he isn't a prejudiced bigot!I chose to believe in perfect God with perfect Love. What you're offering me is some Monster whom I should fear all the timeSomehow, I prefer the first one... And tell me one more thing- if someone is really a decent person- not because is shittles scared of going to hell, but for no reason whatsoever- yet is- let's say- Muslim or even ateist- will this person burn in hell?Well, I'd rather be burning in hell with all my "sinful" friends than in heaven with a load of sheep too scared to speak their minds in case they get turfed out! Besides, hell seems more heavenly to me (IT HAS FREDDIE ACORDING TO YOU)You and I may call another person decent, but we cannot see a person's thoughts. Nor can we know all his sins. To God, there is not a single person who has ever lived who is "decent" and good. We are all sinners, right from birth.ORAnother "fact" that turned me away from christianity. How on earth can a newborn baby be sinful?You should be worried. Very worried. There's a reason why that gentleman preaches in the streets. He has forsaken all, his pride, his lust for this life and this world, maybe his family, maybe his friends. Maybe he is an outcast now for his faith. |
Boy Thomas Raker 31.08.2005 16:15 |
SomebodyWhoLoves, since you know what the criteria is for going to hell, could you please explain it to me? Is it based on things like decency, respect for your fellow man, etc., or is strictly for people whose sexual preferences are deemed as abnormal? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 31.08.2005 17:07 |
BHM 0271 wrote: SomebodyWhoLoves, since you know what the criteria is for going to hell, could you please explain it to me? Is it based on things like decency, respect for your fellow man, etc., or is strictly for people whose sexual preferences are deemed as abnormal?What is Hell, and why does the Bible tell us the human race is headed for Hell? The reason why anyone is going to hell is because of sin. The Bible is a Book of Laws. It is also a book in which we can learn the fundamental answers of life itself. Why was Mankind created? What happened to Mankind? What is the solution God has provided for mankind? What is man's ultimate future destiny? All these questions revolve around Sin. Why did Jesus Christ come to earth? Sin. Why does history itself exist? To complete God's salvation plan. Why must this world be destroyed? Sin. Everything and anything pertains to Sin. What is Sin? Sin is any violation of God's laws. Any violation, even the smallest single infraction of God's laws is enough to condemn anyone to hell. Normally, a human being commits thousands and thousands, even millions of sins in a lifetime. And each sinful thought and deed is indeed recorded and shall be recalled on the great Day of Judgement. The Day of Judgement is like a court trial. God shall preside as the Judge. There shall be witnesses, and the accused shall stand trial for all of his life's deed. And all those who have not believed in Jesus Christ MUST pay the penalty for their sins. Because if Jesus Christ is not their savior, that means, they are guilty under the Law of God. On the other hand, a believer, one who has believed, will not stand trial because in the eyes of the Law, he is innocent because Jesus Christ has paid for ALL the sins of his life. So your question is, What is the criteria for hell? The criteria is sin. Anyone who has sinned will go to hell, unless they are Saved through Jesus Christ. Does a little baby sin? Although we don't like to think of this, the Bible tells us that from the moment we are born, we engage in sin. What do you think a baby does when he cries and cries when he doesn't get his way? He is rebelling. In his little baby heart, he is sinning. Have you seen little children? They are very apt to lie, deceive. Even as little children, they are very good at sinning. So the baby grows up into an adult, and that cycle of sin does not stop. Grown adults sin even worse. Lying, cheating, hating, killing, lusting, all sorts of sexual perversions, greed. The list is endless. This is why if you are not a believer, if you do not have certainty of salvation, you are in DEEP DEEP TROUBLE WITH GOD. God does NOT love sinners. God is not a kind old man who will kindly brush aside mistakes. No way. You are kidding yourself if you think that. God is a God of LAW and also a God of Mercy. He made provisions for the Human Race to escape Eternal Damnation, paying the EXTREME HIGH cost Himself. Only Jesus Christ, who is God himself, could pay the EQUIVALENT OF US SPENDING ETERNITY IN HELL, satisfying the Righteous ANGER of the Law. For us to satisfy the Righteous Anger of the LAW, we must spend ETERNITY FOREVER AND EVER in Hell! Hell is real. Hell is our future, unless we believe. Tonight, God could come, or tomorrow. All of the conditions for God's return HAS BEEN MET. Israel became restored as a nation in 1948. Fulfilling one condition Jesus gave. After nearly 2,000 years of being scattered like the wind, miraculously, Israel once again became a nation. The gospel of Jesus Christ HAS been preached to ALL the world, even to the farthest corners. Through modern inventions like radio, satellite, internet, jet planes, etc, the gospel can be preached instantly anywhere in the world. Thus fulfilling another condition. That when the gospel has been preached to all the world, THE END WILL COME. There are other condit |
Boy Thomas Raker 31.08.2005 17:51 |
Thanks for the reply. I have to ask you now, as you're a good Christian, what is the fate of the priests in the Catholic Church who fellated and sodomized young boys for their own personal pleasure? As men of the cloth, surely betraying their maker has to be a greater sin than Freddie Mercury ever committed, no? And what of the new Pope Ratzinger? He was responsible for moving a great number of these priests to other churches, even when knowing that these men committed these atrocities against children. The new Pope was also responsible for publishing a paper on how these cases were not by to dealt with external authorities (read the police) outside of the Vatican, but were to dealt with in house. So my new question to you SWL is, are these men who violated a sacred trust between a child and his spiritual leader going to hell for their actions, if so, is it going to worse for them than Freddie or non-believers, and are the Pope's actions in taken away the dignity of those who were molested a sin, and will he be punished for this with an eternity in Hell? |
sheerheartattack1980 31.08.2005 17:59 |
I think that it is sad that Freddie did every damn thing in excess, but he had a blast in his lifetime, and that is more than I can say for myself. Yes his stupidity took him from us too early, but I don't think he was the type of person that would have to many regrets. And NO ONE has the right to say that he is in hell for what he did. He may have made right with the Lord, you, (whoever said that he is in hell, i don't remember your name) have no right to make that call. I don't really agree with the way he lived his life either, but I believe that Freddie is a good place. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 31.08.2005 18:18 |
BHM 0271 wrote: Thanks for the reply. I have to ask you now, as you're a good Christian, what is the fate of the priests in the Catholic Church who fellated and sodomized young boys for their own personal pleasure? As men of the cloth, surely betraying their maker has to be a greater sin than Freddie Mercury ever committed, no? And what of the new Pope Ratzinger? He was responsible for moving a great number of these priests to other churches, even when knowing that these men committed these atrocities against children. The new Pope was also responsible for publishing a paper on how these cases were not by to dealt with external authorities (read the police) outside of the Vatican, but were to dealt with in house. So my new question to you SWL is, are these men who violated a sacred trust between a child and his spiritual leader going to hell for their actions, if so, is it going to worse for them than Freddie or non-believers, and are the Pope's actions in taken away the dignity of those who were molested a sin, and will he be punished for this with an eternity in Hell?The Catholic church has been dead for many centuries now. It has absolutely no truth in it. It began to become depraved, and used it's position for political power, establishing positions such as the Pope, developing wrong doctrines such as confessionals, and praying to Mother Mary. And many other wrong doctrines. True believers such as Martin Luther recognized the depravity and abuse the Catholic churches were doing, and protested, and formed the Protestant churches. To this day, the Catholic church is absolutely a dead church. It has ZERO truth in it. All the things you hate about "Religious" institutions, such as corrupt use of power, etc, are absolutely correct. Yet what happened to the Catholic church had also happened to the Jewish Churches/leaders during Jesus's day. Those Pharisees who were the leaders of the Jewish Church, also loved their power, and loved to abuse people. They loved to show off their self-righteousness, and loved to receive the respect of the common people. And how did Jesus respond to them? Jesus vehemently hated them, and these leaders also vehemnently hated Jesus Christ. They were so blinded that they wanted their messiah, whom they were expecting, killed! When Jesus died on the cross, several things happenend. Several significant things. One of these things was that the veiled curtain of the Jewish temple ripped in half! The significance of this was that God had officially "divorced" the marriage between Israel and Himself. How so? Throughout the Old Testmaent period, the only people who had the gospel were the Jews. They were the chosen people of God. And God had blessed them richly, and even married himself to these people. But with the death of Christ on the cross, that marriage came to an end. In our day, the Christian churches ALSO have done the exact same thing! They have violated all kinds of laws such as allowing divorce, accepting female Pastors, accepting homosexuality. Pat Robertson recently called for the "assasination" of Chavez. Do you see how corrupt such leaders are? They are no different from the Popes, and the Pharisees. They are altogether rotten and evil, and they do this IN GODS NAME! They shall definitely burn in Hell for sure! And their sin is greater for sure! Because God shall hold accountable a teacher of God's laws, a minister even more than the common man. And if these men abuse their power, they shall surely pay! |
The Real Wizard 01.09.2005 02:30 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: To this day, the Catholic church is absolutely a dead church. It has ZERO truth in it.You see the truth about the Catholic church, yet you don't see the truth about your own so-called faith. Fascinating. Every single one of us are offsprings of Adam and Eve...which of course explains why we have countless different races and colours of people. The Bible is a Book of Laws.Obviously you're completely ignoring my entire post above (as fully expected), and are continuing to dwell in your ignorance. The bible is a book of laws only if you choose to use it in that way. You consistently use the words "the bible says" as if they had some kind of authority. Such authority is there only if you choose for it to be there. Israel became restored as a nation in 1948. Fulfilling one condition Jesus gave. After nearly 2,000 years of being scattered like the wind, miraculously, Israel once again became a nation.Yeah, at the expense of countless Muslims. But knowing you, you probably think all Muslims should rot in hell too, right? This complicated situation cannot be condensed to two or three sentences of text. You gave a horribly one-sided version of the happenings in 1948, and I'm not surprised in the least. If I were in your shoes, I couldn't. I'd be terrified.And you aren't terrified? Again, what you have is not faith - it is fear. You have chosen to have your "faith" in order to escape something. That is called reacting to fear. They have violated all kinds of laws such as allowing divorce, accepting female Pastors, accepting homosexuality.So, you hate women, Muslims, gays, and people who divorce. Somebody who loves? Hypocrite. You are one of the biggest haters I've ever had the mispleasure of wasting my time on. You have been completely brainwashed since birth. What a sad life to have lived thus far. In fact, you're not even living a life. A life is something that allows one to live with confidence, full of love and compassion for ALL beings (not just the ones that our special little book says we're allowed to and not allowed to), and to make one's own decisions for themselves. You are currently living to judge and mistreat others, and ultimately, you are mistreating yourself. You are living a religion, not a life - and I can only feel sorry for you. If you feel no guilt or remorse by excluding certain groups of people from what you think is "heaven", then you obviously have a long, long way to go in the fields of ethics, ecumenicalism, love, and compassion. |
YourValentine 01.09.2005 03:34 |
I wish visiting a Queen website and more specificly visiting Queenzone would be such a mortal sin that religious fundamentalists like SWL would avoid it. Honestly. |
Fenderek 01.09.2005 04:03 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Nice try but you forget that Adam and Eve were created perfectly, and with free will. They did not have a speck of sin in them, nor were they created with any defects that would cause them to sin. They were perfect with perfect wisdom and understanding. They perfectly understood the consequences of sinning, and what sin was. They also had perfect free will, free choice. God did not make them as robots without a free will. It is not God's fault that mankind stumbled and fell.I'm sorry- but it's still above my head... If they were SO BLOODY PERFECT why the hell- even knowing the consequences- did they sin??? They chose to stumble and fall- not something perfect thing would do IMO... So what that they understood? They still DID it, when being perfect. Sorry mate, but you make no sense at all. I just wanted to prove you something- reading the Bible LITERALLY is the dumbest thing you can do. Do you realize that the Bible actually doesn't deny evolution? Just take the "Genesis" not literally but as a metaphor- and the "day" as you call it may have been thousands of years... No- you of course believe in Adam and stuff... Explain me one last thing than- there was Adam and Eve. They had kids. And those kids procreated with each other to create humankind, yeah? Nice one- I understand now why some of us are really retarded... |
The Real Wizard 01.09.2005 04:19 |
*waves to Fenderek* |
Fenderek 01.09.2005 05:10 |
*waves back* amazing thing this internet- you can wave here in England and someone in Canada will notice :) |
Little_Queenie 01.09.2005 08:12 |
For fuck's sake not again.... |
Boy Thomas Raker 01.09.2005 10:13 |
As someone who believes in live and let live, I've got to say I'm diametrically opposed to your thoughts SWL. I believe in the old saw "convince a man against his will, and he will be more stubborn still", and your attempts to scare people into accepting your beliefs is sad. However, I will give you credit for your beliefs and adding your thoughts to the thread instead of posting at the beginning then taking off which is the style around this forum lately. If you're happy in life, that's really all that matters. Same for the non-believers. If they live there lives without God, but don't hurt anyone along the way, that should be good enough for them. No moer religion on the board though! |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 01.09.2005 12:26 |
please, that's the last thing this board needs :P SWL, drop it. it's getting to be too much now. go live a perfect life and leave us alone (that includes Freddie) god...i really feel bad for the man. what gives you (and others) the right to say he's in hell?!!!! arent we his FANS??? honestly... |
The Real Wizard 01.09.2005 15:01 |
BHM 0271 wrote: If you're happy in life, that's really all that matters. Same for the non-believers. If they live there lives without God, but don't hurt anyone along the way, that should be good enough for them.I used to have this attitude too, but I've come to learn that it is the moderates such as yourself who are just as much of a contribution to religious extremism as the extremists are. By letting people believe whatever they want to believe, bit by bit, people's beliefs approach the levels of extremism and fundamentalism. Where do we draw the line? Where does their faith, and actions, begin to attack others? Who feels attacked at what point? It's all far too relative. That is why I think religion has to go. Religion once served a purpose - to explain the things we cannot explain. Over 500 years of science, rational thought, and other various findings free from control of the church, have given us much knowledge about the world around us, and how we as human beings operate. To me, there is nothing more stupid than living a life outside of one's five senses and everything else they were given. We are human beings. We are capable of thought, reason, love, and compassion. These are intrinsic things that we all have been given, and in this day and age, we need to recognize that these things are all possible without religion. If religion were abolished, there would be significantly less mass murder, terrorism, bigotry, judgementalism, hate for people we haven't even met, and preaching about how one person has it right and another has it wrong. We should not need to believe in "something". We should have belief in ourselves, because we are the most intelligent, versatile, and understanding beings that walk this planet. If life were based on tenable, physical, and seen things, there would be no room for error or miscommunication when it comes to explaining how the world works and how we are to treat other beings. Bottom line: If we weren't so busy dividing ourselves from others because of religious differences, there would be a lot more love, understanding, and peace in this world. |
Boy Thomas Raker 01.09.2005 16:03 |
Sir GH, I'm on your side! Selective editing there! I prefaced the bit where you quoted my by saying "I've got to say I'm diametrically opposed to your thoughts SWL...and your attempts to scare people into accepting your beliefs is sad." What I meant is that if his faith makes him happy (as others lack of faith in organized religion makes them happy) then good, live with it. It wasn't approval for religious fanatics to erode the world further. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 01.09.2005 17:26 |
Religion itself isn't bad. If you think the absence of Religion would suddenly make this world a peaceful paradise, you are kidding yourselves. The reason we have wars, and evil in this world is human nature is evil. It's our nature to kill and cheat and steal and rape. Evil men have done evil in the name of God and as long as this world exists, evils will continue. God is on the side of Truth, and Righteousness. God IS the definition of Good. We humans along with satan, are the definition of Evil. |
teleman 01.09.2005 18:07 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Religion itself isn't bad.Organized Religion is scary. Faith is fine but organized religion ends up being an excuse to impose one's will upon another. When people do that they show disrespect to the family that is mankind. We have free will and that is all there is to it. If you wish to impose your beliefs and rules on another person then you are displaying despotic arrogance. Cheers |
thePresence 01.09.2005 18:47 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Religion itself isn't bad. If you think the absence of Religion would suddenly make this world a peaceful paradise, you are kidding yourselves. The reason we have wars, and evil in this world is human nature is evil. It's our nature to kill and cheat and steal and rape. Evil men have done evil in the name of God and as long as this world exists, evils will continue. God is on the side of Truth, and Righteousness. God IS the definition of Good. We humans along with satan, are the definition of Evil.im not trying to be sarcastic, or any thing like mean, but i have a question. it is: if we humans are evil, along with satan, then what would the point of believing in someone (God/ religion in general), then arent we all gonna go to hell? i mean, if god created adam and eve perfectly, then why did they eat from the tree? **warning: if anyone is offended by my question(s), then do not reply.** |
SomebodyWhoLoves 01.09.2005 19:02 |
I can't give you guys belief or faith. I am just an ambassador of God; not a miracle worker. All I know is, I've been on both sides in my life. I understand what it is to be a human being. Truly. I also know what it is to be a True born-again believer. And the older I get, the more I understand God's point of view, and the more I agree with God. God is perfect, absolutely perfect. Human beings IMHO are wretched creatures, wicked, violent, murderous, full of deceit, lust. Animals are much better than a human being. The only reason this world hasn't destroyed itself is because God restrains us. He manipulates events to reduce sinfulness. If God let us loose, we would destroy ourselves for sure. And God is long in patience and long-suffering towards us. Do you think he is blind to what occurs everyday on earth? He knows everything, but he has refrained from destroying us because he has a plan to complete. He is patient for the sake of the believers. The sad thing is, once the human race has been found guilty, and cast into hell, none of you will enter hell full of regrets or repentance. The bible tells us that the human race will enter Hell kicking and screaming, still defiant until the end. This is who we are. Rebellious and wicked. |
SergeantPepperDG 01.09.2005 21:52 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Human beings IMHO are wretched creatures, wicked, violent, murderous, full of deceit, lust.Even Mahatma Gandhi? Oh wait... I guess he must be in hell also, because he was a Hindu (Hindi?). |
SomebodyWhoLoves 01.09.2005 22:31 |
SergeantPepperDG wrote:Try to look at things from God's point of view, from the viewpont of the Law of God, not from a moralistic one.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: Human beings IMHO are wretched creatures, wicked, violent, murderous, full of deceit, lust.Even Mahatma Gandhi? Oh wait... I guess he must be in hell also, because he was a Hindu (Hindi?). Gandhi did many great things in his life, but he is still guilty before the Law of God. It is like a criminal going before a human Judge on the day of his trial pleading for a complete pardon because the criminal did many good acts in his life. He was a faithful husband, a diligent worker. A responsible citizen but one day, he lost it, and killed someone. Will the judge pardon this man? No way. His crime still stands before the Law, and if he is guilty, then he will have to pay the punishment. If you expect a human judge to judge according the human laws, then why can't you understand that God, who is far more perfect in his Integrity and Justice, will also judge according to His Laws? Good works, being a nice person, etc cannot pardon your sins before God. That is why Jesus Christ came so that HE could pay the price for our sins so that through belief in Him, we could escape the awful Judgement of God. |
The Real Wizard 02.09.2005 00:29 |
If you are willing to put criminal law and biblical law onto the same plate, and will condemn any person, no matter how good they are to the world, only because they don't agree with your mythical biblical law, then you really have no hope. End of discussion. Nobody else reply to this, because we will get nowhere with this person. |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 10:57 |
then dont listen to her if u think that... ok, i just thought this up not to long ago. nothing against god, but u know how Bush is all reliant on god and is basically destroying the seperation from church and state amendment (?) anyway, it was basically his decision to go to war but...hello! war is nothing but KILLING people for peace. an oxymoron, in my book. i personally dont think god had it planned for bush to lead us to war. shows u who's wrong in this situation...answer that, SWL. |
GreatKingSam 02.09.2005 11:35 |
I believe that God knows if you are truely a good person or not. Surely, a belief is a belief. Therefore, according to my beliefs, I am not going to hell, because God knows that, even if I do bad things in my life, he knows if I am a good person or not. So, just because you believe that Freddie is in hell, if he didn't believe in hell, is he still there? Just a hypothetical question. Becuase, surely, if you do not believe in something, then it is not there. So, why should it matter? Beliefs are beliefs. Some believe the best sandwich is beef, some believe the best sandwich is chicken. Just becuase they believe that, it doesn't mean that every sandwich must have that particular filling. Maybe I've missed the point, but I wanted to post something. |
The Real Wizard 02.09.2005 11:38 |
Stop encouraging SomebodyWhoHates to answer anything. This discussion should have ended pages ago, because we're not going to get anywhere with this person. Stop wasting your time. |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 14:06 |
i was just wondering... |
The Real Wizard 02.09.2005 14:35 |
*3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: i was just wondering...I still wouldn't bother. The bible is full of contradictions, so religious fanatatics will always choose the point of view that's convenient for them at a particular time. They think they can talk their way out of anything, and so they do. Rationality will always come second to the bible. Just let them be, because you're never going to change them. You can't change someone who doesn't want to be changed, and you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Golden lessons in life. |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 15:39 |
hmmmm...i learn more here then i do anywhere else...sad... |
SomebodyWhoLoves 02.09.2005 15:48 |
*3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: then dont listen to her if u think that... ok, i just thought this up not to long ago. nothing against god, but u know how Bush is all reliant on god and is basically destroying the seperation from church and state amendment (?) anyway, it was basically his decision to go to war but...hello! war is nothing but KILLING people for peace. an oxymoron, in my book. i personally dont think god had it planned for bush to lead us to war. shows u who's wrong in this situation...answer that, SWL.God is in total control over every single event that happens. No, God is not the author of every event, but God is in control. Nothing can happen without God's consent. God tells us that He is the one who raises up kings, and also puts down kings. God, for better or for worse, allowed this man George Bush to become the Leader of the most powerful nation on earth. As a true believer, I have nothing to fear. Whether I live in peace, or whether some evil calamity falls on the world such that I live in terror or even die, so be it. God is in perfect control over every event. Nothing happens without God's consent. Look at those poor people in New Orleans. One day, they seemingly had everything they could want. They had food to eat, houses to live in. Jobs to go to. They had material possessions of all kinds. Families and friends to comfort themselves with. They had everything. And they trusted and comforted themselves with their possessions, and material goods. Their lives seemed guaranteed to have Peace, and safety. And what happened? In a single day, a storm blew in and destroyed every single thing they had. Doesn't that teach you a lesson? How temporary and fragile our lives are? We really have nothing but the shirt on our backs. It is all an illusion. In the aftermath of 9/11, I remember the reaction of Americans. People remembered the following passage of the bible, and thought it was the end of the world. "For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! " In ONE hour, the World Trade Center buildings fell, and were destroyed. And people were terrified beyond measure. It was as if, a veil was lifted from their eyes, and they suddenly saw the truth of life. Suddenly, it didn't matter if they had 250k salary, or owned a mansion or drove fine automobiles. Their material goods became meaningless. They trembled and feared that Judgement Day was truly approaching. Because mankind knows instinctively that there is a God. This is why, when man faces a calamity, he instinctively prays and seeks out a God he normally does not worship. But then weeks went by, and nothing happened. No Judgement Day. No wrath of God, and gradually people deceived themselves and trusted in their lives again. But the Bible tells us that there IS an end. There is a day of Reckoning. Judgement Day is near. And like those people in New Orleans, and like those people in the World Trade Center buildings, the world will know once again that their lives are a dream, an illusion. And they will wake up to the awful truth. The truth that they lived in rebellion against God, and God is angry at them, and now, they must answer to God for their lives!! However, for the believer, it is another story. When the Judgement Day comes, or even if some other calamity comes, it cannot touch us. I am already saved. My future is glorious. If God is for me, who can be against me? If you have God, you have everything. But if you do NOT have God, you have NOTHING!! |
SomebodyWhoLoves 02.09.2005 15:58 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:HAHA. The bible is full of contradictions because God has not opened your eyes or ears.*3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: i was just wondering...I still wouldn't bother. The bible is full of contradictions, so religious fanatatics will always choose the point of view that's convenient for them at a particular time. They think they can talk their way out of anything, and so they do. Rationality will always come second to the bible. Just let them be, because you're never going to change them. You can't change someone who doesn't want to be changed, and you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Golden lessons in life. My God is crafty. He tests us all the time. See, the bible does appear contradictory but I'll tell you how the bible was written. It is like a giant jigsaw puzzle. A million pieces. And you look at one piece, and you look at another piece, and they seem contradictory. God even, LOL, encourages this, by setting "traps" in the bible. Unless we have eyes to see, and ears to hear, there is no way we can possibly understand, and the Bible's secret nuggets of truth are hidden from us. Do you know who Paul is? He was a pharisee, a biblical scholar of the highest order. He had studied the Bible for years, and years, and he was very learned. And yet, Paul, in his zealousness for God, sought to murder Christians. He actively rounded up Christians and had them tortured, and killed. And all this time, Paul thought he had the truth. However, God had a great purpose for Paul. God would use Paul to write most of the New Testament. So one day, on a journey to Damascus, Paul heard a voice from heaven, and shocked, Paul asked who art thou, Lord? And the voice said it is me, Jesus. Why dost thou persecute me? And God opened his eyes, to see, and it was as if scales had dropped from his eyes. You see, you cannot possibly understand the Bible. The Bible is a spiritual book with many layers of meaning. Like Paul, even if you had devoted your life to studying it, unless God opened your eyes, you could never understand it. This is why the Bible is full of contradictions to you. This is why Christianity makes no sense. But let me tell you this. I have not found ONE single contradiction in the bible that could not be explained. There is NO MISTAKE in the bible. None. If there is even ONE single mistake, then EVERYTHING is false, and God is not God. But God is perfect. God cannot sin, and God cannot make mistakes. What appears initially to be a mistake, is just one small jigsaw piece. But as you put more of the pieces together, it forms a cohesive perfect picture of truth. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 02.09.2005 16:12 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: Somebody Who Loves, you are definately an expert in one thing: Attempting to talk your way out of a situation which seems desperate and failing miserably. You have lost the argument, you are the only one who hasn't noticed. Incidentally, that is also one of the main foundations of Christianity. Too bad the Romans were so tolerant ;-PI'm not a miracle worker. I can't convince anyone to believe. I am not a saleman. Of course you won't accept what I say. You can't possibly understand, unless God opens your eyes. My job isn't to sell anything. My job is only to teach, to warn, and to declare the truth. As a witness of God, I merely plant seeds. It is God who shall water. :) |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 16:17 |
i found it quite clever and long-winded... |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 21:07 |
*snickers* ...there's no hope for him, sister... |
SomebodyWhoLoves 02.09.2005 22:29 |
*3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: *snickers* ...there's no hope for him, sister...Um..I'm a guy! LOL! |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 02.09.2005 23:12 |
oh...well...*awkward* erm, sorry brother |
The Real Wizard 02.09.2005 23:58 |
Nothing wrong in the bible? Here's one:
Zechariah 11:12 says:
I then said to them, 'If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.' So they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver.
Matthew 27:9 says:
Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah, 'And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one on whom a price had been set, on whom some of the people of Isreal had set a price.'
It seems someone quoted the wrong book! My eyes are wide open, SomebodyWhoHates. Let's see if you can talk your way out of this one. If you choose to believe it was God who wrote the bible, then you have no reputable place in even the 19th century, never mind the 20th or 21st.
Do you know who Paul is? He was a pharisee, a biblical scholar of the highest order. He had studied the Bible for years, and years, and he was very learned. And yet, Paul, in his zealousness for God, sought to murder Christians. He actively rounded up Christians and had them tortured, and killed.Does your church teach you this blasphemy? There was no new testament during the time of Paul, as he was its first writer, in the 50s and early 60s CE. And you can't be referring to the old testament, because that wasn't officially canonized until the council of Jamnia in 90 CE. Paul died in 64 CE. Paul is the man who started Christianity as a means of including gentiles into Jewish worship in synagogues. So, nice try. In fact, that's the first time a biography of the apostle Paul has made me laugh. I could waste hours on your worthless drivel-filled posts, but this is all I feel like addressing at the moment. Excuse me, for I've forgotten my umbrella and I need to share with ThomasQuinn. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 06:57 |
*3*Playful as a pussycat wrote: oh...well...*awkward* erm, sorry brotherNo apologies needed. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 07:17 |
Nothing wrong in the bible? Here's one: Zechariah 11:12 says: I then said to them, 'If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.' So they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver. Matthew 27:9 says: Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah, 'And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one on whom a price had been set, on whom some of the people of Isreal had set a price.' It seems someone quoted the wrong book! My eyes are wide open, SomebodyWhoHates. Let's see if you can talk your way out of this one. If you choose to believe it was God who wrote the bible, then you have no reputable place in even the 19th century, never mind the 20th or 21st.God is the Author of the Bible. Every single word was inspired by God and written down by prophets. There can be no mistake. If there is one error, then God is not God. As for Matthew 27:9, it can be easily explained. In our english translations, the translators used the word "Jeremiah" for the Greek Word "Iepeuias". The hebrew words for "Jeremiah", and "Zechariah" are similiar, maybe equivalent. Jeremiah means "Jah is high". Zechariah means "Jah is renown". Both are equivalent. Here, in this case, the English translators simply translated the Greek word incorrectly because of the close similarities of Jeremiah and Zechariah. However, given the context of the verse, it is CLEAR that God's intent here for the word "Iepeuias", which can be translated either Jeremiah or Zechariah, is not Jeremiah, but Zechariah. The verse comes from as you've stated, Zechariah 11:12. As I've stated, there are no errors in the Bible. There might be errors in Translations because people make mistakes, but God himself is PERFECTLY ACCURATE. When we read the bible, we see a cohesiveness from Genesis to Revelations. Although the bible was written over a span of thousands of years, and by many human scribes, it has an impossible cohesiveness that can only be explained because God is the true Author. God is the one who inspired these men to write the bible. Does your church teach you this blasphemy? There was no new testament during the time of Paul, as he was its first writer, in the 50s and early 60s CE. And you can't be referring to the old testament, because that wasn't officially canonized until the council of Jamnia in 90 CE. Paul died in 64 CE. Paul is the man who started Christianity as a means of including gentiles into Jewish worship in synagogues. So, nice try. In fact, that's the first time a biography of the apostle Paul has made me laugh. I could waste hours on your worthless drivel-filled posts, but this is all I feel like addressing at the moment. Excuse me, for I've forgotten my umbrella and I need to share with ThomasQuinn.I'm going to focus on this statement of yours: "And you can't be referring to the old testament, because that wasn't officially canonized until the council of Jamnia in 90 CE. Paul died in 64 CE. " So are you trying to say that Paul, because he died before the OT was canonized in 90CE couldn't have possibly been a biblical scholar? Nonsense. Paul was a Jewish Bible scholar. He clearly was a learned scholar of the Bible (the OT). What we consider the OT today was the bible in Paul's day. And like most Jewish scholars, they failed to understand the nature of the Messiah. They failed to understand Isaiah 53. Because they were spiritually blinded. To this day, the majority of Jews still reject Jesus as their Messiah, although there are a remnant who do believe in Jesus Christ. |
The Real Wizard 03.09.2005 10:03 |
Paul was a Jewish Bible scholar. He clearly was a learned scholar of the Bible (the OT). What we consider the OT today was the bible in Paul's dayThat cannot be proven. What we cannot know is "what kind of bible" Paul was a scholar of. We do not know which books were rejected at the council of Jamnia in 90 CE, hence we cannot know to what extent Paul would have been a scholar of jewish scriptures. Paul makes very few references to Jewish scripture, anyway. He mostly talks about his spiritual experiences. We cannot know the writings that were rejected. But then, there are of course non-canonical writings, but that's a whole other discussion. SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: In our english translations, the translators used the word "Jeremiah" for the Greek Word "Iepeuias". The hebrew words for "Jeremiah", and "Zechariah" are similiar, maybe equivalent.There should be no room for speculation. The bible is a completely human creation for human reasons. There are errors all over the place. One only sees them if their spiritual blinders are not on. You, with your spiritual blinders, are trying to find any possible way to rationalize such errors because you believe God wrote the bible. You fundamentalists will adjust history in any way you can to match your belief system. |
Sir Archie Leach 03.09.2005 10:15 |
I've just had a word with the big fella upstairs and he said SomebodyWhoLoves is a pain in t'arse. Not my words. |
i_am_a_killer_queen_darling! 03.09.2005 12:12 |
how can you hate fm it is a radio setting lol i am afraid that u r parsely ryt n sorta wrong everthing cept the bit bout him being ultimately unhealthy so plz bugger off n get yr fact straight and try n straighten yr face u sad morbid git! |
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 12:17 |
That cannot be proven. What we cannot know is "what kind of bible" Paul was a scholar of. We do not know which books were rejected at the council of Jamnia in 90 CE, hence we cannot know to what extent Paul would have been a scholar of jewish scriptures.Paul writes of himself in Phil 3:5, "...as touching the law, a Pharisee...". Paul was very well versed in what we would call today, the Old Testament. God would have protected his Bible back then, just as He protects the Bible today. God is in total control over everything. Do you think He would control everything else but allow his Word to fall into disarray? No, God protects his Word, and ensures its authenticity and integrity. Paul makes very few references to Jewish scripture, anyway. He mostly talks about his spiritual experiences. We cannot know the writings that were rejected. But then, there are of course non-canonical writings, but that's a whole other discussion.Wrong again. Paul makes plenty of references of OT scripture. He cites again and again verses from the OT that prove Jesus was the Messiah. The book of Romans is Paul's commentary of the Old Testament. There, he explains where and how the Jews went wrong. There should be no room for speculation.I have not speculated. I told you very certain what the nature of the error was. It was not God's error, but an error of the English translators. The bible is a completely human creation for human reasons. There are errors all over the place.There are no errors in the Original Bible which are the Hebrew and Greek writings. But mistakes were made in Translations to different languages. Men make mistakes, God never. One only sees them if their spiritual blinders are not on. You, with your spiritual blinders, are trying to find any possible way to rationalize such errors because you believe God wrote the bible. You fundamentalists will adjust history in any way you can to match your belief system.Where have I adjusted history? Where have I rationalized? Did you even read my explanation? You cited a verse where you thought there was an error, and I explained quite clearly that it is not a genuine error but an error in translation. The problem with you is that you approach the Bible looking for errors, and when you see a verse that looks to be an error, you IMMEDIATELY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS, saying aHA! Here you go! God is not infallible! Errors exists so therefore, the Bible is not trustworthy. But any true student of the Bible knows that the Bible is infallible, and has not a single error. We may not initially understand the Bible, but by studying and delving deeper into the Bible, we can eventually see the truth. But someone of your attitude will NEVER understand the Bible. It will always be a unreliable relic, a book full of errors. It's because that's what you want to see. |
Missy May 03.09.2005 12:35 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:In ONE hour, the World Trade Center buildings fell, and were destroyed. And people were terrified beyond measure. It was as if, a veil was lifted from their eyes, and they suddenly saw the truth of life. Suddenly, it didn't matter if they had 250k salary, or owned a mansion or drove fine automobiles. Their material goods became meaningless. They trembled and feared that Judgement Day was truly approaching. Because mankind knows instinctively that there is a God. This is why, when man faces a calamity, he instinctively prays and seeks out a God he normally does not worship.HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU! How can you have the audacity to mention the people who died in 9/11 in your little rants about hell. a boy from my old CHURCH's (get that? HE WENT TO CHURCH HIS WHOLE LIFE) dad DIED in 9/11 and your sitting there talking about it in your crazed rants. That is TRULEY DISGUSTING! |
i_am_a_killer_queen_darling! 03.09.2005 12:36 |
surely when Freddie was alive he had enough aligations fired at him about being on drugs an addiction to morphin but now you just keep them coming they wrote rip on his grave why must you prevent that from happening? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 12:42 |
HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU! How can you have the audacity to mention the people who died in 9/11 in your little rants about hell. a boy from my old CHURCH's (get that? HE WENT TO CHURCH HIS WHOLE LIFE) dad DIED in 9/11 and your sitting there talking about it in your crazed rants. That is TRULEY DISGUSTING!It's called Freedom of Speech. Why can't anyone talk about the 9/11 victims? Why not? |
Missy May 03.09.2005 12:58 |
|
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 14:07 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:And I have not shown any disrespect to the victims of 9/11. I have no idea what you're talking about.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:There is also something called 'respect'. Sadly, the church and it's fundamentalist members such as yourself never had much of that. Or tollerance, for that matter, which is the reason I don't show any towards you (of either of the previously mentioned).HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU! How can you have the audacity to mention the people who died in 9/11 in your little rants about hell. a boy from my old CHURCH's (get that? HE WENT TO CHURCH HIS WHOLE LIFE) dad DIED in 9/11 and your sitting there talking about it in your crazed rants. That is TRULEY DISGUSTING!It's called Freedom of Speech. Why can't anyone talk about the 9/11 victims? Why not? |
SomebodyWhoLoves 03.09.2005 15:26 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:You still don't understand that you're in deep trouble with God. You have nothing going for you at all in your life. Nothing. The only good thing is that today is still the day of salvation. Judgement Day has not yet happened. That's the only good thing.SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about.Exactly. That is why this discussion isn't going anywhere, you don't have a clue what we are all saying to you. But it could be tomorrow. It could be tonight, and then you're on your way to Hell, inspite of your stubborn insistence. Like those poor people of 9/11 and New Orleans, in one hour, in one day, their life and everything they had was taken from them. That is your fate, unless you make peace with God. I am not trying to disrespect anyone, I'm trying to help. If I were you in your shoes, I'd be trembling. As Jesus himself stated whenever he preached, to whom has ears to hear! |
*3*Playful as a pussycat 03.09.2005 16:36 |
SWL, my dear, ill say it again; STOP JUDGING THESE PEOPLE! u have no right to and im sure that God isnt too happy with you saying they are damned for hell! |
Boy Thomas Raker 03.09.2005 23:43 |
Someone (SWL) needs a blowjob to loosen them up. Whenever I get one, I always say "OH MY GOD!" |
The Real Wizard 04.09.2005 02:50 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: There are no mistakes in the original Hebrew and Greek? I can read it (and I'm sure you can't, so you can't know if there aren't), and I can assure you there are plenty of mistakes there!No, every Greek translator in the history of biblical scholarship has been wrong, including those who wrote the books on translating ancient Greek - and SWH is right. What were you thinking??!!? I've had enough of your judgements and bigotry, SomebodyWhoHates (I actually have fun writing that). I have said dozens of things to try to get through that thick skull of yours, but you just keep pandering back to your invisible avenger and your little book. These metaphysical ideas and texts are only truth if you believe they are truth. You need to realize that not everyone needs a crutch like religion, especially not one that's so fanatical and judgemental as yours. I am an emotionally and mentally strong person, but unfortunately, there are many in this world who are not. I can only hope you don't suck these kinds of susceptible people into your systems of fear by manipulating them to believe they shouldn't have control over their lives, and that they'll pay later for not living their lives as you would see fit. I wish them luck, and I also wish you luck - luck in that one day you may hit a point in your personal growth that you won't feel the need to impose your beliefs on other people, and consistently tell them they are wrong, all because you think you have the one and only truth. Jesus said: Love your enemies. That's what I just did. And don't even try to rationalize your actions as doing the same, because you're "trying to save us from hell". Don't mix the physical with the metaphysical. You will attain little to no credibility with thinking-oriented people by doing that. Metaphysical proof does not work on most rational people, in case you haven't noticed. |
StrangeQuark 04.09.2005 18:07 |
thank you, somebodywholoves, for being the sole voice of reason on this topic. you argue well with excellent logic, though your words fall on deaf ears. but take heard that you will share in God's glory on Judgement Day, while the others will perish in the lake of fire. truly, God bless you i visit this board so rarely any more, and it tears me apart to see all the people so blinded by the glitter of fame and glory. i think this topic has really convinced me not to return 4ever. |
SomebodyWhoLoves 04.09.2005 20:05 |
StrangeQuark wrote: thank you, somebodywholoves, for being the sole voice of reason on this topic. you argue well with excellent logic, though your words fall on deaf ears. but take heard that you will share in God's glory on Judgement Day, while the others will perish in the lake of fire. truly, God bless you i visit this board so rarely any more, and it tears me apart to see all the people so blinded by the glitter of fame and glory. i think this topic has really convinced me not to return 4ever.God bless you too. I hope to see you and all the other Believers in Heaven on Judgement Day. It is sad, and heart-breaking to see willful rebellion in action, right in front of our eyes. We tell them the plain truth, and they still reject it. |
deleted user 05.09.2005 12:35 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: Hahahaha This is decisive proof: religion ruins your brain. Logic? Good argumentation? If you can say that, you wouldn't recognize a good argument if it slapped you in the face! I'll gladly perish in the fires of hell if it prevents me from spending all of eternity in the company of you and your peers, SWL!Caspar, "Religion ruins your brain" sounds to me like a great subject for a cabarock show. |
deleted user 05.09.2005 12:44 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:Ow Caspar you'll burn in hell. You use a lot drugs you'll burn. I use a lot alcohol I'll burn.<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:You still don't understand that you're in deep trouble with God. You have nothing going for you at all in your life. Nothing. The only good thing is that today is still the day of salvation. Judgement Day has not yet happened. That's the only good thing. But it could be tomorrow. It could be tonight, and then you're on your way to Hell, inspite of your stubborn insistence. Like those poor people of 9/11 and New Orleans, in one hour, in one day, their life and everything they had was taken from them. That is your fate, unless you make peace with God. I am not trying to disrespect anyone, I'm trying to help. If I were you in your shoes, I'd be trembling. As Jesus himself stated whenever he preached, to whom has ears to hear!SomebodyWhoLoves wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about.Exactly. That is why this discussion isn't going anywhere, you don't have a clue what we are all saying to you. So let's make our lives crazy as hell, cause we'll burn anyway. Yeah, like those victims from 9/11 and New Orleans didn't pray. Let me tell you something interesting wich almost nobody mentions. In the same week as the New Orleans disaster there was another distaster with as mutch as people as at the new orleans catastrophe. In Iran 1000's of people died while they where praying, they where on a brige, and suddenly the rumours came that there was a bomb under the bridge. People pushed eachother and jumped from the bridge in panic. In all these panic 1000's of people died while they where celebrating their faith and their god. P.S. Somebodywholoves I hope than on "your day of judgement" Allah will sit there waiting for you to check in. That would be a quite interesting conversation. |
deleted user 05.09.2005 12:49 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: Listen carefully to what I say, SWL, it might finally make you understand my motivation. I don't give a shit whether you agree with it or not, and I don't need another one of your salvation-talks. So listen, and shut up: IF (and not WHEN) Judgement Day comes, I trust one God or another to judge me on my actions, the way I lived my life, and not on what doctrine I followed. If He/She/It does not use that standard for judging me, He/She/It is not worthy of my soul, and I do not want to be saved by such a God. I will only accept judgement from one who has EARNED respect, not DEMANDED it.Indeed. That's one huge thing that disturbs me. A lot of people (of any religion) go every week or every day to church cause their god wants them. And they force their children to go cause it's gods will. I think that you truly pray if you do it because you have respect for your (yes YOUR) god. And not because a god (I don't believe there's a god who wants that anyway) forces you. You truly pray if it comes spontanious. You truly believe when it comes out of yourself. And you truly believe in god when you do not believe in the bible. |
Missy May 05.09.2005 14:23 |
SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:You still don't understand that you're in deep trouble with God. You have nothing going for you at all in your life.The fact is that we don't care that we are in trouble with your God. We come on this website to talk about our idols. |
Introducing_Christina Lauren 05.09.2005 17:23 |
Sharon G. wrote: I loved Freddie and miss him very much.Agreed. |
The Real Wizard 06.09.2005 15:05 |
<font color=black>The Lord Of Darkness wrote: Somebodywholoves I hope than on "your day of judgement" Allah will sit there waiting for you to check in. That would be a quite interesting conversation.Hahahahaha, this post made my day!! |
its_a_hard_life 26994 08.12.2005 10:00 |
Bob The Shrek wrote: I'd rather booze it up, snort coke and have sex than get nailed to a cross. Unless it was a nice view, then I might be okay for a day or two.I have to say that was fucking funny man!!! |
7drylegs+1wet1 08.12.2005 11:51 |
vivival wrote: and he didn't do nothing but becomeThat's a double negative. You shall go to hell. |
inmsthebest 08.12.2005 13:18 |
He doesn' t hate him but he can't stop trying to be the center of the universe by makin us read his insulting comments about freddie once and again. Anyway if this guy is so sure Freddie is in hell he'll probably meet him, because if catholic church morality is what applies to him, I'm sure one of the worst sins there are is defaming anyone who's dead and therefor has no chance to respond. And about AIDS, I'm sorry, but it is now clear it's not only a problem of promiscuity or of being gay. It's sad to hear such comments on the worst pandemic of the world in this century. |
KillerQueenAnn13 08.12.2005 20:00 |
vivival wrote: Freddie Mercury is NOT a role model. His lifetime was nothing but engaging in promiscious sex with thousands of untold men, battling endless heroin addictions, excessive selfishness, materialism, loneliness, sodomy, and he didn't do nothing but become addicted to morphine and/or barbituates and engage in sodomy with over 1,500 gay men in his short little life. Freddie Mercury died as a very, very evil man. The one and ONLY role model for you is the Lord Jesus Christ, he shall be the role model for you, Unlike Freddie Mercury, who was nothing but a very, very evil man. How sad! How tragic! Where is he now? HELL!A. You're a douche bag B. The way Freddie faced his illness and still chose to keep on working and living should make him a role model for, not only people with AIDS, but every person who has been afected by AIDS worldwide (in other words... everyone). C. Did I mention you're a douche bag? |
it was electric7 24.12.2005 00:48 |
Who cares what Freddies personal life is...its very wrong for people to go THAT into his life...hes my idol for sure, he has changed my life butI can see why people wouldnt think he was the apidimy of a role model |
ethylhexyl 24.12.2005 01:27 |
vivial is going to hell. |
magicalfreddiemercury 24.12.2005 08:18 |
I'm fairly new here and just noticed this thread. Once I got through all the religious crap filling the pages and rediscovered the original reason behind this thread, I decided to reply. I'm sorry if what I say has already been said. Was Freddie Mercury a role model? For me, absolutely. He's a man who struggled with his sexuality at a time when homophobia was even more prevalent than it is now. He's a man who lived his life to the fullest - and why shouldn't he? I don't drink. I've never tried any form of drug -unless you count coffee - and so, no, the multiple sex partners and cocaine parts of his lifestyle make me realize he and I never would have been great friends. But, he had a legion of dedicated friends who adored him. They saw his good and bad points, and loved him anyway - as any true friend would. That says a lot about the man, himself. He put everything he had into his music and his performances. "Singer of songs, lover of life." We should all enjoy our 'job' as much as he did. So much so, that despite the fact that he was dying, he trudged on, not letting it get him or anyone else down. I find that inspirational. That is the kind of focus and dedication I would love to have. But I will never be nearly as great a Freddie Mercury. No one will. |
Caviar and Cigarettes 06.08.2014 13:18 |
This might be the absolute worst thread i have EVER seen in my LIFE! |
thomasquinn 32989 06.08.2014 13:56 |
And so you dug it up after NINE YEARS? That almost qualifies as trolling all by itself. |
Kamenliter 06.08.2014 14:01 |
Of course he was a role model, simply for the way he worked his ass off to bring to the world some of the greatest music ever created. He was incredibly disciplined, focused and hard working. Why does his personl life have to be the main part of why he should be a role model? Everyone does some questionable things in their life...he wasn't going around hurting people, or being mean...from all accounts he was a loving man, and loyal to his friends. To all artists who care about quality, integrity and the pursuit of excellence, no matter what kind of art they do, whether it be music, painting, acting or dance, etc, he should be held up as a prime example of how to take natural talent and then work very hard to perfect it, never settling for anything other than the best. On top of that, the way he handled himself in his last months is something to be admired and respected. Freddie was a genius!! |