alibat 12.05.2005 11:40 |
I have just listened to an old tape I recorded off the radio in 1989 when the miracle was released. In it,the question of if any tour was planned came up. Freddie basically said that he wanted to get off the treadmill of touring for a while as he'd been so busy and the magic tour had been so huge. Of course with the benefit of hindsight we all know the real reason. Brian, John and Roger clearly wanted to tour. What I would be interested to here peoples opinions about is this. How long do you think Freddie managed to fob off the others with excuses about not wanting to tour at the moment before he had to tell them the truth? How did they feel about this before they knew he was ill when Queen had been such a huge live band? |
doremi 12.05.2005 11:46 |
From what Scott had told me, Freddie told BOTH Freddie's sister Kashmira and Roger, together in August 1986 at Freddie's home, that Freddie had AIDS. Then in September 1986 Freddie told Brian & John that he had AIDS. So the band knew by fall 1986. Roger and Brian loved touring in the 80's. (even if now in 2005 they have shifted their priorites to their families and home life and prefer to stay off the grind of the road and stay home). So in the 80's and early 90's, Roger recorded solo albums and with The Cross and toured, and Brian recorded solo albums, collaborated with other artists and toured, even here in the USA to promote "Back To The Light". Roger made several statements in the 80's about how he missed and loved the thrill of performing live with and as part of a band, which was why he formed The Cross. As for John, he had already tried ONE solo effort in the mid 80's that flopped, a song for the film, "Biggles". And John has always been upset that he didn't have a good lead singing voice, so he didn't fare at a solo career and after Freddie's death, John basically "retired". Freddie preety much told the whole band he was ill pretty soon after he knew for certain he was ill. Right after The Magic Tour ended. So he basically was up front right away with the band, so that Roger, Brian & John could persue other ventures if they wanted...and STILL record as Queen (just not tour due to Freddie's declining health). And so that's what they did. As Queen they STILL wrote and recorded The Miracle and Innuendo and the tracks for Made In Heaven. For touring and more recording work, Brian & Roger did their solo stuff. Also, even Freddie did solo work without major touring. He recorded "Barcelona", "Time" and made a few one off perfromances with Montseratt Caballe performing "Barcelona" and for "Time". I feel Freddie did the right thing by the band and gave them the honest decency to give them the options to persue what creative ventures they wanted to. And they STLL enjoyed and loved working as Queen. They just stuck to recording and didn't tour. Telling the band right away was also good on both a professional level and on a personal level. Professionally, Brian, Roger, & John could fend off rumors about Freddie's illness to their NEW record label in the USA, Hollywood when they were in discussions to sign a new Record Deal/Contract with Hollywood and to promote Innuendo as best as possible, and release the entire Queen back catalog on CD and boost it and Queen as best as possible. They were the ones that told the press, record ecxecutives, the music industry that Freddie didn't like touring anymore and kept the rumors at bay, which protected Queen's professional and business affairs/interests, and work. On a personal level it was good because Brian, Roger, & John could spend quality time with their dear friend and colleague, and they were VERY protective of Freddie...as the band...did their best to keep the truth about Freddie's illness from the press and public and protect his privacy..as wll as protect him emotionally and help encourage him to work which gave Freddie hope as making music for Freddie, was the single most imprtant thing that kept him going, kept his strength up as long as possible, and gave him courage, purpose, faith, and hope. |
alibat 12.05.2005 12:13 |
Thanks Arlene. I'd assumed it must have happened way before 1989 and that the standard reply was to keep away the press. I'd just thought that there might have been a brief period before he felt he could tell them. Sounds like Freddie to be upfront and tell them right away though. |
doremi 12.05.2005 12:18 |
Frog wrote: The Roger he told, is his sister's husband. In the fan club message of 1986, John says the 1986 tour will be the last one they do for a while, in a sad way.Thanks for this Frog. I actually printed Scott's information to me. So was he wrong? Does Kashmira have a husband named Roger? Scott said though that it was Roger from Queen. In fact, He said that Freddie told Roger...first and before Brian & John...and that that was at Freddie's house along with Kashmira. OK QZ...everybody..let's get the facts correct on this as it IS important. Anybody know that when Freddie told Kashmira at his home in August 1986 that he had AIDS, was it Queen's Roger who was there as well that Freddie also told, or did Kashmira have a husband named Roger that Scott (and I) didn't know about, and that was who Freddie first told along with Kashmira? |
Daburcor? 12.05.2005 12:57 |
Wait... Who's Scott? |
doremi 12.05.2005 13:04 |
Dan Corson wrote: Wait... Who's Scott?Scott_Mercury Anyway can someone verify my question which is the last part of my post? We need to get this correct. |
doremi 12.05.2005 13:22 |
Frog wrote: Yes Kashmira's husband is a nice guy named Roger. They both visited Freddie and they noticed his kaposi sarcoma on his legs, and he told them his disease has no cure... and that he will die. I believe this was in 1990 or 1991. And that's what his SISTER said, and she also said, her HUSBAND, Roger, was with her.So Scott was confused, didn't know when he told me..so I didn't know either. That would mean Freddie did NOT tell Queen's Roger BEFORE Brian & John & that he told the entire band in Sept. 86. What source did you use Frog to verify that Kashmira's husband's name is Roger ALSO and that REASON as well (the'yre noticing Freddie's sores) that he confided the truth to them? Frog....Wait a minute...I thought Freddie told Kashmira in 1986! NOT 1990 or 91, so your story is conflicting too! Oh this is all confused. Please people lets get the actual facts...and verifiable sources that check out. |
doremi 12.05.2005 13:46 |
Frog, I read the entire interview thanks...but there are some inaccuracies in it as well, one that IT even says so. "Freddie Mercury died on November 24, 1991, with his parents at his bedside. (Editors note - this is inaccurate according to all other accounts of Freddie's death.)" Frog, then this... "At Ealing, Mercury acquired a reputation for flamboyance, once cutting up his mother's tablecloths to make a flowing shirt, and by the time he moved to London in the late Sixties, his extravagant taste in clothes suited him perfectly to his job, running a clothes stall in Kensington Market with a young man called Brian May." Scuse me...Roger...ran the Kensington Market stall with Freddie. And that IS a FACT! (NOT Brian)! Can't the press get anything right. Like most press INCORRECTLY saying Freddie died in 1992 (1991 is correct),or I read recently in one UK press that INCORRECTLY said Mary Austin owned the store Biba where she met Freddie (yeah..in her dreams..she had a customer service PR job there and was only an employee). |
doremi 12.05.2005 13:51 |
Geez, no wonder WE are all confused when the press AND Media can't give us correct information. Freddie was born in 1946, died in 1991 at 45. Also....this would mean that Freddie told Kashmira very near the end of his life, if it was 1990, years after he knew and years after he told the band that he AIDS. |
doremi 12.05.2005 14:10 |
Frog wrote: link The Cookes' (Kashmira and Roger Cooke) clearly remember the day they learned that he was HIV-positive. 'It was August 18, 1990', says Roger precisely. 'We were sitting in his bedroom having coffee, when he said suddenly, "What you have to understand, my dear Kash, is that what I have is terminal. I'm going to die." We saw these marks on his ankles and knew he was ill. After that, we talked no more about it.'Scott_Mercury......PLEASE READ THIS. Kasmira's husband is named Roger. Freddie told Kash & Roger Cooke (her husband) not Roger Taylor, together in his bedroom, in 1990, that he had AIDS. additional info from above interview with Kashmira... "The kitchen of Kashmira Cooke's Nottinghamshire home was spotless, although warm and lived-in. Kashmira - sister of the late Freddie Mercury - smiles as she remembers. ' Once, in a previous home, Mercury had surprised Kashmira and her husband, Roger, when he called them up from Los Angeles to hear the couple sounding glum." Scott, Kash's husband's name is ALSO Roger! |
Scott_Mercury 12.05.2005 14:59 |
No way.. As if Freddie's sister didn't know before 1990 that he had AIDS...c'mon. People in the music business started saying it in the summer of 1987. Before 1986 was over...I guarantee that Brian May, Roger Taylor, John Deacon, Freddie's intermediate family, Jim Hutton, Mary Austin, and I am sure a few others in the circle knew Freddie was at least HIV positive. I don't care how private you are... you don't hide AIDS from you friends and family for 4 years... Especially when you start looking like Fred did the last 18 months. Lets use common sense. Arlene... I have Freddie's sister...on dvd ...saying that after the last show in 1986... "Freddie told me & Roger, at Garden, in late August 1986 that he may have HIV, they weren't sure"... then she says "He told the other band members a few weeks later in September." Unless Freddie's brother in law Roger was in Queen too... I'd say this phrasing has to mean Roger Taylor. |
Munchsack 12.05.2005 15:19 |
How could Fred have told people he had AIDS in '86. He didn't even know until the following year. (I think) |
wstüssyb 12.05.2005 15:32 |
Peter freestone said Freddie didnt tell any one before 1987,as he said around mid 1987 is when things started to fall in place, and he told the band much later then he told his personal circle. Even Brian said something about the Band not really finding out much till in the Mircle sessions, so Unless they started those right after the Magic tour there is no way he said that in 1986. |
Sharon G. 12.05.2005 16:51 |
Freddie 1991 We love you and miss you! Freddie you and only you............ |
wstüssyb 12.05.2005 17:04 |
Sharon G., go make like a pineapple and bury yourself. |
Sharon G. 12.05.2005 17:06 |
You don't like me? |
wstüssyb 12.05.2005 18:04 |
Not when you post the same shit over and over. Time to learn some new words. |
Sharon G. 12.05.2005 18:24 |
Sorry about the repeats. I have a Freddie obsession going on. |
wstüssyb 12.05.2005 18:34 |
Hey Scott, Show us some Poof of this! =) |
doremi 12.05.2005 18:42 |
wstüssyb wrote: Hey Scott, Show us some Poof of this! =)And we would prefer additional accurate sources of pooves! |
stateside fan 12.05.2005 20:30 |
geez...how can so many faithful queen fans just say anything they feel without concern for the facts?do you honestly think the band knew in '86?NO WAY!!In what account or record was that ever mentioned.Our hero dies a horrible death-no need to try to "scoop" fellow fans! |
egret 13.05.2005 03:38 |
I think there is a large grey area between what people know or can deduce from what they observe and, on the other hand, what they know because they have been officially informed. I think it's important to remember that attitudes towards AIDS in the late 80s were much less enlightened than they are now; people with AIDS were treated like lepers. There was much more incentive to keep quiet about it, and it's entirely believable that friends would find a don't-ask-don't-tell policy to be the kindest and/or easiest approach. --Egret |
BEF 13.05.2005 07:23 |
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Fenderek 13.05.2005 08:07 |
How the band could know in 1986 if Freddie found out a year later? (according to Freestone if i remeber well...) |
Mariam 13.05.2005 09:55 |
He said it to Kashmira in august 86 He sait it to Queen members in september 86 He said it to Kashmira at 1990 He said it to Hutton in april 1987 He said it to Freestone... in 87? 88? 89? He said it Mary Austin in 84 ore 85? Briam said that they didn't know it before 91 before 89 on magic tour they only suspicted that something wrong Freddie vizited Japan in september 86. He was so happy during his vacation. It's so beatiful to know that you are Aids- pozitive. Sun wrote in september 86 that he hasn't Aids I'm going slighty mad |
Fenderek 13.05.2005 10:15 |
No- he fuckin told Mary in 1975, when he wrote song about it. It's called bohemian Rhapsody... *rolls eyes...* |
Fenderek 13.05.2005 11:16 |
Not to you- to everyone who asks the same question even though it was already answered thousands times. There are thinhgs we'll never know. As far as I'm concened Mary didn't say in any interview when did Freddie say he had AIDS, yet many ppl seem to know better. On top of that ppl claiming the band knew in 1986 are forgetting one thing- according to few sources (Freestone, Hutton) Freddie DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING IN 1986! THEY sure know what they're talking about! My remark is to those who are not listening when they get an answer and still think that their guess is the best. No-one knew that it's going to be the last tour. John DID say in a Fan club message about Magic Tour being a last tour FOR A LONG TIME (not EVER), because band was about to split for holiday and there was no intention of imediate next album session. THEREFORE- it was obvious there will be no tour. John anyway was increasingly uncomfortable with touring- many say or think (including me) that if Freddie didn't have AIDS he would eventually retire anyway, pretty much maybe an album after AKOM... There are sources backing this up... And don't be so touchy- the Bohemian Rhapsody remark is an old joke from this site, going back quite few months... A joke towards those looking for senstaional messages in Queen songs, prophecies... Like ppl thinking Show Must Go On was Fred's testament or Who wants To Live Forever was one of the clues, forgetting that both were written by Brian, etc , etc. Yes- they sound different now, the thing that John said for Fan Club do sound different, because after the years we know what happened LATER. But there are no prophecies, band didn't know, so didn't Fred. There are many sources stating that, I haven't seen one reliable source stating otherwise. PS As I read the entire thread. You were actually one of those who was giving the answers, relying on sources. Still- some know better... It was directed at them, not you. Just happened to be under your post. Hope that clears everything. |
doremi 13.05.2005 11:29 |
Fenderek wrote: Not to you- to everyone who asks the same question even though it was already answered thousands times. There are thinhgs we'll never know. As far as I'm concened Mary didn't say in any interview when did Freddie say he had AIDS, yet many ppl seem to know better. On top of that ppl claiming the band knew in 1986 are forgetting one thing- according to few sources (Freestone, Hutton) Freddie DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING IN 1986! THEY sure know what they're talking about! My remark is to those who are not listening when they get an answer and still think that their guess is the best. No-one knew that it's going to be the last tour. John DID say in a Fan club message about Magic Tour being a last tour FOR A LONG TIME (not EVER), because band was about to split for holiday and there was no intention of imediate next album session. THEREFORE- it was obvious there will be no tour. John anyway was increasingly uncomfortable with touring- many say or think (including me) that if Freddie didn't have AIDS he would eventually retire anyway, pretty much maybe an album after AKOM... There are sources backing this up... And don't be so touchy- the Bohemian Rhapsody remark is an old joke from this site, going back quite few months... A joke towards those looking for senstaional messages in Queen songs, prophecies... Like ppl thinking Show Must Go On was Fred's testament or Who wants To Live Forever was one of the clues, forgetting that both were written by Brian, etc , etc. Yes- they sound different now, the thing that John said for Fan Club do sound different, because after the years we know what happened LATER. But there are no prophecies, band didn't know, so didn't Fred. There are many sources stating that, I haven't seen one reliable source stating otherwise. PS As I read the entire thread. You were actually one of those who was giving the answers, relying on sources. Still- some know better... It was directed at them, not you. Hope that clears everything. Mariam wrote: He said it to Kashmira in august 86 He sait it to Queen members in september 86 He said it to Kashmira at 1990 He said it to Hutton in april 1987 He said it to Freestone... in 87? 88? 89? He said it Mary Austin in 84 ore 85? Briam said that they didn't know it before 91 before 89 on magic tour they only suspicted that something wrong Freddie vizited Japan in september 86. He was so happy during his vacation. It's so beatiful to know that you are Aids- pozitive. Sun wrote in september 86 that he hasn't Aids I'm going slighty madI agree...I am also going slightly mad. So many people on QZ have told me so Many DIFFERENT sources, dates, stories about when Freddie knew he had AIDS, when he told the band, when he told Kashmira, if he knew during Live Aid, or The Magic Tour, or not until years later, WHO he told first, Mary, Jim, etc.... For now, I will take these completely different and contradictory stories...with a grain of salt, only. |
Fenderek 13.05.2005 11:54 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote: For now, I will take these completely different and contradictory stories...with a grain of salt, only.And that's exactly how to take them! There's nothing definite, ppl are contradicting each other- some details from Freestone book do not match the ones from Hutton's. And that's perfectly natural- that's human memory! I'm more aware of dates regarding Queen history that my life! I have to think hard to remember which year did I finish my college or what month exactly I was at the prom. If I was writing a book- I'd made maaaaany mistakes. So did Hutton AND Freestone. And many others I'm sure as well, interviewing ppl who thought they remember correctly but they didn't. Just like John saying in one interview that there were six or seven bass players in queen before him, when now we perfectly well know it was only 3. So you have to take them with a grain of salt- and avoid those who are desperately looking for some incredible stories... Some things appear in few sources and they are MOST LIKEL;Y to be close to truth. One of them is- Freddie didn't know in 1986. What happened later? Who knew first, who second, who 15th? We don't now and probably never will. We know one thing- when recording Barcelona he DID know. Same goes for Miracle and Innuendo. When band knew? Again- two sources state pretty much the same- Hutton and Brian (I don't remember- didn't Freestone write that as well?)- it was during MIRACLE sessions. Always take it with a grain of salt and try to look for reliable sources, interviews. If one thing appears few times- is more likely to be close to truth (although not always- some mistakes and myths are being repeated from one book to another...). And don't worry about those stirring things up by saying he knew earlier, based on... nothing. Try checking out who's telling you what. I know it's weird when on the site 10 ppl say 5 different things. Check them out. There are guys here with incredible Quen knowledge, and there are ones thinking that BoRhap indeed was about AIDS. On the begining it may be difficult to recognise who's who... Pity though that some of those with a great knowledge do not post here so often anymore... |
Mariam 14.05.2005 04:32 |
He didnt know in 1986. I agree. Even if he had AIDS , he didnt know about it. Why everybody tell different things? Why it s so many lie? Its not only people memory. As example, we didnt read so strange things in Mike Jagger 's biography. Fenderek, Mary said that Freddie lived with AIDS more that 7 years. |
doremi 14.05.2005 12:42 |
Mariam wrote: He didnt know in 1986. I agree. Even if he had AIDS , he didnt know about it. Why everybody tell different things? Why it s so many lie? Its not only people memory. As example, we didnt read so strange things in Mike Jagger 's biography. Fenderek, Mary said that Freddie lived with AIDS more that 7 years.Miriam, I read that too in interviews with Mary Austin. Which would mean Freddie knew he had AIDS since approximately, lets see he passed away 1991, subtract 7 years...about 1984-1985? She claimes he told her 1984. So many contradictory stories it's unreal. The ONLY PROOF of ever knowing when Freddie knew, was if his sealed, confidential medical documents with the AIDS test results were ever released, which will proabaly never happen, as medical records are legally confidential. But THAT would reveal the truth about exactly when Freddie knew...BUT, ONLY Freddie. As for who he told, when, and first and in what order, being the band, Mary, Jim, Peter, friends, family, anybody...that is all up to these individual people's accurate or inaccurate memories/stories, conjecture, their "side" of the story, etc. so we will never have proof of any of their stories, only their word. |
wstüssyb 14.05.2005 16:15 |
I find it uselss to discuss this, as we will never know. IMO I'll stick freddie finding out he had it 100% in 1987, and Hard to explain it, but him sort of knowing he had it years before, changing his lifestyle a little or trying to beat the odds that he had it. |
bigc 15.05.2005 13:48 |
yeah 1987 seems to fit it best...in accordance to other peoples recollections |
Dacoviac 16.05.2005 12:04 |
Perhaps anyone knows when Freddie most likely was affected with HIV? Most them dying of AIDS before 1995 have according to their doctors had HIV/AIDS for 9 years or less. Perhaps Freddie was affected in 1982? But when he found out he had it is not my question. |
Fenderek 16.05.2005 12:17 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote: She claimes he told her 1984.Show me (direct me to) the source of that. |
doremi 16.05.2005 12:23 |
Fenderek wrote:From Mary's Interview with David Wigg, "Mercury Left me His Millions."Arlene R. Weiss wrote: She claimes he told her 1984.Show me (direct me to) the source of that. "Freddie lived with the knowledge that he was HIV-positive for seven years." in link below... link |
Fenderek 17.05.2005 11:40 |
Hmm... Daily Mail? Is it reliable? If it is- that's interesting... But than a grain of salt again- John in one interview said there were 7 bass players before him in Queen. It was 3... But I can give you that- there is a source stating that, and must admit didn't know that one... |
Vdo28 19.05.2005 04:58 |
I think Freddie did know while touring with Queen (The Magic Tour) I have a interview in which Brian says that Freddie and John had a quarrel after or before a concert. Freddie said the tour was probably the last tour of Queen. Everybody was shocked and didn't asked further. But Brian saw that Freddie was serious, and later on Brian remembered this and is now sure that Freddie knew by then. |
dimcyril 23.05.2005 10:02 |
i would imagine that freddie suspected that he had AIDS in 1986. however jim hutton states easter 1987 as the time he was told. i'm sure he would have been one of the very first to know, what with him being freddie's partner and at risk. freddie didn't start a relationship with jim hutton till 1985, therfore i doubt he would have known in 1984 and willingly infected jim hutton. doesn't jim hutton say something about john deacon asking, on holiday in ibiza, in about 1987 /1988 what the [aids related] marks were on freddie's leg. hutton claimed john was told that freddie was allergic to the sun. therefore it is highly unlikely that he had told bri rog and john before then. i seem to recall an interview which said that he didn't tell queen till after the innuendo sessions. when he stated that he wanted to carry on working till he dropped. jim hutton also says that he told dominique taylor that he had aids in the late 80s after she confided in him that she had breast cancer |
kdj2hot 25.05.2005 12:53 |
Who knows, why would Mary Austin lie though? maybe he had it since 84/85 from his own calculations. He probably found out he had it in 97 and just estimated he contracted HIV in 84/85. Maybe someone he let tap that ass died of AIDS related complications and he just put it together in hindsight. Who knows and really who cares...wait, tahts stupid, cause I care. Anyway I always thought he told the band during the Miracle sessions, thats what I got based on the VH-1 legends (the higher classed Behind the Music doc they did for the actual great artists, no offense to MC Hammer or KC and the sunshine band, they're behind the musics rocked) documentary from the Brian May interview. Logic fits with that as well, let's remember that was the first album they didnt tour for, I'm sure some understanding had to be made. Anyway about the avg 9 yr span thing someone brought up, let's not forget that Freddie did go off his medications before he died so who knows how much longer he wouldve lived...ofcourse I dont know if thats fact, tahts just something I read from a "source" and is probably not worth more than anything else posted in this thread. ----edit----------------- More evidence that he probably didnt tell the other band members til aftyer the innuendo sessions is the fact that the individual members stopped being credited as song writers starting with the miracle. Thats a small thing but could be an indication or innuendo. |
kdj2hot 05.06.2005 11:15 |
I'm such a genius |
bitesthedust 05.06.2005 13:41 |
According to Peter Freestone's book, Freddie didn't know until 1987 that he had got AIDS, so how could tell the others in 1986? |
newcastle 86! 16483 05.06.2005 18:21 |
he told me down the pub one night in 1980, i just got the round in and he blurted it out. we were all gobsmacked "i reckon ive got that aids thingy" were his very words. "i reckon ill write a song or two about it" i said fuck that mate just make sure you get the next round in. |
Josuè 05.06.2005 19:36 |
Sometimes I'd like to take a shotgun and just start exploding heads. |
kdj2hot 06.06.2005 09:23 |
Well for some reason I believe Jim Hutton ove her and he agrees with Freestone and says 1987. I mean you're telling me Freddie was in such a state of denial that he knowingly infected Jim Hutton and didn't make any significant lifestyle changes. !987 seems to fit, finding out you have full blown AIDS have to be tough, I would say maybe he found out he was HIV positive in 1984 and didn't understand what it was but I'm sure the doctors even in those primitive days of HIV/AIDS would've explained to him what that meant. I'm so smart. |
john bodega 06.06.2005 13:21 |
The interview I read (used to be up at queen-interviews.com - now defunct I believe) was with Freddie's sister. She said it was a day she would never forget, it was in late 1990 (she actually said the date) and that they were sitting on the bed and Freddie pointed at marks on his ankles, and explained what was happening. Bleeeah. If you don't trust his sister, who can you trust? |
PainPleasure 08.06.2005 00:47 |
I think that already in 1988 touring was out of question for the band. |
Scott_Mercury 08.06.2005 08:44 |
Mary Austin has been quoted as saying several times that Freddie told her in 1984, and swore she never told a sole. I mean, c'mon people, by 1981, in the USA...while Ronald Reagan refused to acknowledge that AIDS exists... the Health commission had already posted facts of AIDS, how it was contracted, and who is at risk. According to Hutton, Freddie once told him right when their relationship was getting serious "Jim, you know I have been with thousands of men, but I will be faithful to you." In 1982, we had commercials running about how if you have had unprotected sex with more than 10 partners, you are at risk for the fatal disease AIDS. "If you are homosexual, you risk increases dramatically". So if you are Freddie, its oh..1983/1984.... you've had sex with, oh, give or take 2,000-3,000 total gay men in various cities and countries all over the world.... do you wait 3 or 4 years to get tested, or does a bell go off in your head that says "Hmmm... I may be a high risk for this?" I think its highly unlikely that Fred waited until 1987 to get tested....thats a full 6 years after AIDS had been officially recognized and brought to the worlds attention. Meanwhile, by 1985, Freddie had settled down already with his life partner (Jim Hutton was standing just off stage at Live Aid)..... kind of weird for someone, who according to assistance, just 2 or 3 years earlier would sometimes have sex with up to 6 different men a night...maybe there is a reason why he slowed it down?? What we all can see is that there is a difference in Freddie's personality that occurs around 1986. What I mean is... his actions, his smile, his look, his words at 1985's LIVE AID are truly vintage Freddie... its like the Freddie of Milton Keys 1982, or Houston '1977. At 1986's Wembley, and Magic tour... his whole personality seems to shift a little, Freddie's head & face looks slightly swollen at Wembley... (his body changed alot in the year between the Liva Aid apperance, and the Wembley DVD)... Fred was super lean, and muscle bound at Live Aid... his head is swollen, and has gained probably 10-15 pounds a year later at Wembley. At Wembley, on the Friday night show, before Crazy Little thing called Love... He announces "this is for all you crazy faggots out there." My honest opinion of "When Fred knew timeline" differs from all known sources. Do I think he knew he was HIV positive at Live Aid: No Do I think he knew by Live at Wembley: Yes By the way, in 1991, the average HIV positive/Aid patient lived with the disease for an average of 13 years... that being the case, that puts Freddie contracting HIV in 1978. (Which, of course, HIV has been around since the 1960's science has proven) Maybe Fred didn't contract until later?? But passing away in 1991, its almost for certain he was a HIV carrier by the 1982 Hot Space tour, and certainly would have been positive by The Works tour. Despite my personal opinion on the timeline, I don't feel its out of the question that he knew in 1984 as Mary says he did... and what does she have to gain by saying that? |
kdj2hot 08.06.2005 10:03 |
You people are nuts, theres not many scum bags on the planet low enough to knowingly infect someone with HIV which you people are seeming to imply Freddie did to Jim Hutton. Another logic flaw in Scott_Mecury's thought process is putting today's feeling about HIV/AIDS to the public perception 20 yrs ago. The term AIDS wasnt coined itil 1982 so of course Reagan (an absolutely horrible president still) didn't mention it in 81, because no one could've. TYou have to consider fears, being in denial, that even today stops people from getting tested. It's not a stretch to believe someone in the early and mid 80's would avoid getting tested. There were tons of misconceptions about HIV/AIDS too maybe Freddie Mercury figured non of his partmers "looked like they had AIDS" so that gave him false security. Where did the figure of 2-3,000 men come from? lol, Freddie must've been banging 3 or 4 guys a day then by your accounts. |
Scott_Mercury 08.06.2005 23:52 |
kdj gay 2 hot ...bullshit whatever... According to Freestone, there where times when Fred was in the middle of a romp where he was pounding 3 different man asses in a man on man on man on man buffet... while calling out for someone to bring him more man ass. So actually, some days he did no one... some days he gave and received from 5, 7, 9?? different dudes. I must laugh when I read this "he was bisexual" shit .... if banging 5 dudes in a one night "all you can spray, cum buffet" doesn't qualify for gay... then what does? |
Scott_Mercury 09.06.2005 09:27 |
Judging from your picture "Fruit side" ... I see why you call yourself that. In 1997, when you were masturbating to Playgirls, and stumbled across "Radio Ga Ga" on some Chipindale's stripper footage.... I had already wrote articles on Queen in major publications. Of course, I was a fan 15 years before you...and owned all public released material by 1992. I LOOOOOVE these teenage rock band historians on this website. |
Boy Thomas Raker 09.06.2005 10:12 |
Topics like this are ridiculous because no one was there to verify any of this. I could say that Scott Mercury was with 15 midgets a few weeks back, and I've also heard that Fruit Side plowed through a team of goats yesterday. Doesn't make it true. Whether Scott is taking licence with the albeit great descriptions ("all you can spray, cum buffet"), to think that Freddie didn't sleep with thousands of men isn't a stretch. He was rich, famous, talented, and a sexual creature. I read recently about Wilt Chamberlain's boast of 20,000 women, and I totally believe it. Whereas poor guys like us have to work on it, guys like Freddie and Wilt would round up men or women and go party. Whether Fred actually did the deed with 3,000 or 4,000 guys is neither here nor there. He had the means and desires to do it, and probably did. To pretend otherwise is naive. |
doremi 09.06.2005 15:08 |
Just an opinion folks... I think Mary DID know around 1984 and that Freddie may have known then too. If Freddie didn't know in 84 then he knew by 1986 on the Magic Tour. I agree with Scott about the complete change in Freddie's physical appearance between Live Aid in 1985..and at Wembley in 1986. Here's the thing..which I have kept my thoughts to myself about til now. Alot of you say that the MAIN reason Freddie could not have known he had AIDS until 1986 or better yet, 1987, is that If Freddie HAD known earlier...why would he have a relationship with Jim Hutton and knowingly infect him? As I have said on QZ MANY times, first we can all conjecture, and even hear or read ACTUAL interviews with, Mary Austin, Jim Hutton, Peter Freestone, Brian, Roger, John, Freddie's Family as to what THEY say about when Freddie knew he had AIDS... ...but the ONLY way we could EVER know the FACT of WHEN Freddie knew, is IF Freddie's medical records with the AIDS test date/positive results were ever released..END OF THAT STORY. Next...let's just say...that Freddie already knew he had AIDS when he met Jim Hutton, (this is the part I have kept to myself til now).. ...Before you all jump on me, again I, and YOU do NOT know when Freddie knew he had AIDS...but a hypothetical situation...of IF Freddie knew he already had AIDS when he met Jim. Why would Freddie take up with Jim and infect him?... Hypothetical reason...alot of people KNOW they have STD's of ALL kinds, deadly like AIDS, or without cure, like Herpes, or just the plain old clap. DO YOU KNOW how many husbands and wives cheat on their partners..get these diseases...and STILL knowingly infect their OWN spouses? Or people know they have these sexually transmitted diseases, THEN, LATER get in a loving relationship..and sleep with their committed partner, or MARRY them...and knowingly infect them? This happens every day folks. Wise up and welcome to the real world. Alot of people who get AIDS, and other STD's, don't PLAN on meeting someone they love later on, then are afraid to tell their committed partner, spouse, for fear of losing them, (only they are in DENIAL that they will lose that person far worse, by endangering their health & life by knowingly INFECTING them with a life threatening disease or a regular STD.) I read about this every day in the news...and I spent the 1990's working for a humongeous Doctors practice, (I was their paralegal, insurance provider relations rep., and biller), but I had access to 100% of the medical records, and the Drs. had to discuss...the results of STD tests, with those infected and tell them they should give us a list of everyone they slept with, or that they had to tell their spouse, partner... ..BUT there is no law forcing someone who is infected to inform their sexual partners/spouses/lovers, past & present or to practice SAFE sex from the time they are diagnosed with AIDS or an STD. Doctors are at the mercy of Dr./patient confidentiality, and the Dr. can inform the patient to DO the right thing...but the Dr. CANNOT FORCE the infected patient to practice safe sex and not infect others and tell past sexual pertners to get tested. People..either do the right responsible thing or they don't. First I do NOT know when Freddie did or didn't know he had AIDS..but again, IF...he knew he had AIDS when he met Jim, well, Freddie could have said to himself...that he was finally in love with a good person, didn't want to lose him, was afraid to tell Jim, was in self denial, was too irresponsible to use a condom to protect Jim, although FYI, condoms break and are not 100% foolproof anyhow..only abstinence is once you have AIDS. People..even good people, can act irrationally when they are in love...and know that they only have a few years LEFT TO LIVE and enjoy that love. Who knows? Again this is only a hypothetical...that is all. |
kdj2hot 09.06.2005 16:32 |
I believe Mary Austin is a highly credible person so I've changed my mind a lil'. It's possible he could've known in 1984, if he didn't tell his family, why would he tell someone he just met and risk losing them. I don't see why he would wait 2 or 3 yrs to tell, I can only speculate like everyone else. But it's definitely not certain he knew and would feel the urge to get tested in 1984 despite however number of guys he had sex with. That was just the time... I just listened to the works and changed my mind totally, if you listen to machines backwards and splice it witn the last verse of man on the prowl you can clearly hear Freddie say "I have HIV dears, stay away from my man meat"...spooky... |
kdj2hot 09.06.2005 19:19 |
One more fact, the HIV antibody test wasnt commercially available 'til 1985. It's highly unlikely that Freddie found out he had full blown AIDS in 1984 and lived 'til 1991 without immediately changing his lifestyle (i.e. smoking, etc), because theres no way he would've found out he was HIV positive in 1984 since a test wasnt available. I dont know if he had the clout to or go to the effort *remember teh way aids was viewed back then) to pull superstar strings to test a trial version of the test. |
doremi 09.06.2005 19:21 |
But doctors and the even the USA Center for Disease Control knew about full blown AIDS by as I remmeber about 1982 or 1983. I even worked in an office with a man who KNEW hew was HIV AIDS poitive in 1982. |
kdj2hot 09.06.2005 19:35 |
I think the best way to tell then was Karposi's Sarchoma, but the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985. Now I'm a fair and balanced guy, and I havent looked closely at the Hammer to Fall performance on live aid, I think someone said Freddie had a bruise or something on his arm, so who knows maybe he knew. I'm just saying the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985 |
Sicmot 13.06.2005 16:18 |
kdj2hot wrote: I think the best way to tell then was Karposi's Sarchoma, but the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985. Now I'm a fair and balanced guy, and I havent looked closely at the Hammer to Fall performance on live aid, I think someone said Freddie had a bruise or something on his arm, so who knows maybe he knew. I'm just saying the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985Im pretty sure..had he had Karposis Sarchoma during Live Aid, there's no way he could have endured thru Magic tour the next year. to have that cancer means your CD4 levels are below that 200-300 particles in m3 of blood, which means your general condition arent that good and you cant deal all the exessive physical draining touring demands. No matter what medications if any he might have used then. And just take a look how good and lively he still looked during the Golden Rose Festival @ montreux in 86. He wasnt just as high spirited and energetic as in 84 but, there's a lot of other factories affecting to it. |
RohemianBapsody 13.06.2005 19:26 |
I don't think the band knew until after the Magic tour. If they thought it was going to be their las tour I would imagine they would have added even more dates after Knebworth. I have to agree with Scott that Freddis appearance did change from Live Aid to The Wembley shows. I think the band knew in 1989 as I have an interview discussing the Miracle album and I am sure that it was mentioned they would not be touring in the foreseeable future. This could have been a method to avoid any further questions. |
My Best Friend 19.06.2005 23:18 |
I think in Jim's book he said Fred infected him. I mean, wouldn't you obsessed Queen fans let Freddie infect you? I know I would think about it if it meant that I could hang out with him and party. We could play his favorite game of Scrabble and drink his favorite drink of Vodka and tonic. Stolyncha or sum shit like dat. We could put coke on our penis to make it numb and go all night and have a man train and think about Arlean. It looks like Fred lost the "edge" during the Works tour. After watching Sydney 85, Tokyo 85 and Vienna 84, he either stopped doing the cocaine or just didn't have the energy anymore to give us what he use to. He knew during the Magic tour. Did you guys notice he sang differently on that tour? The look in his eyes looked scared. He used more power and force to hit the high notes. I was surprised at the falsetto on In the Lap of the Gods, the song they use to use to close their early shows. |
Asterik 02.11.2005 15:56 |
"Do I think he knew he was HIV positive at Live Aid: No Do I think he knew by Live at Wembley: Yes" I disagree completely, it is an illogical argument. By the Wembley gig Freddie was very jaded, perhaps showing the first symptoms of AIDS, but the tour had gone on a while and we have to remember that he was nearly 40 by that point. He can't have known until at least easter 1987 because of his behaviour. It is widely known that fred was a very different person after his diagnosis- more serious and sober, with less inclination to camp it up. Look at his behaviour on The great pretender video, filmed in early '87. He is outrageous backstage, and dresses as a woman in parts. he also goes bare-chested briefly. Would he do those sorts of things if he knew he was ill. of course not, Freddie became very self-conscious about his appearance. Just look at his appearance on Barcelona, I Want it All and Time (live appearance). Nothing remotely outrageous, he wears sober clothes here. In terms of telling the band, one biography claims that fred said that he wasn't well over dinner in '89, but didn't go as far as saying he had AIDS. He told them about this in January '91. |
Sicmot 03.11.2005 11:46 |
Asterik wrote: "Do I think he knew he was HIV positive at Live Aid: No Do I think he knew by Live at Wembley: Yes" I disagree completely, it is an illogical argument. By the Wembley gig Freddie was very jaded, perhaps showing the first symptoms of AIDS, but the tour had gone on a while and we have to remember that he was nearly 40 by that point. He can't have known until at least easter 1987 because of his behaviour. It is widely known that fred was a very different person after his diagnosis- more serious and sober, with less inclination to camp it up. Look at his behaviour on The great pretender video, filmed in early '87. He is outrageous backstage, and dresses as a woman in parts. he also goes bare-chested briefly. Would he do those sorts of things if he knew he was ill. of course not, - Of course yes.. being aware of illness and having symptoms of illness are two different matters.. Freddie never gave up of his maneers (showing bare chest, dressing hilariously, being overally outrageous.. no, it was his role and style he lived up till the end.. and only untill the very end.. he had to give up those acts due to physical signs of ilness and physical drain. Freddie became very self-conscious about his appearance. Just look at his appearance on Barcelona, I Want it All and Time (live appearance). Nothing remotely outrageous, he wears sober clothes here. In terms of telling the band, one biography claims that fred said that he wasn't well over dinner in '89, but didn't go as far as saying he had AIDS. He told them about this in January '91. |
Sicmot 04.11.2005 21:01 |
alibat wrote: I have just listened to an old tape I recorded off the radio in 1989 when the miracle was released. In it,the question of if any tour was planned came up. Freddie basically said that he wanted to get off the treadmill of touring for a while as he'd been so busy and the magic tour had been so huge. Of course with the benefit of hindsight we all know the real reason. Brian, John and Roger clearly wanted to tour. - Of course they did.. Freddie wanted to get off.. because of his ailimg health during last gigs of Magic tour.. the first symptoms were merely a flu.. and muscle ache.. but quite soon he discovered much more serious health troubles.. like night sweat.. feeling bad generally.. the real signs that got him alerted up.. and to make the test during mid easter. He did the test and it was falsely false by ask of phoebe.. and after Freddie got more comlications he underwent another private test himself.. which proved himself seropositive hiv- carrier... What I would be interested to here peoples opinions about is this. How long do you think Freddie managed to fob off the others with excuses about not wanting to tour at the moment before he had to tell them the truth? How did they feel about this before they knew he was ill when Queen had been such a huge live band? |
Asterik 05.11.2005 06:47 |
"Of course yes.. being aware of illness and having symptoms of illness are two different matters.. Freddie never gave up of his maneers (showing bare chest, dressing hilariously, being overally outrageous.. no, it was his role and style he lived up till the end.. and only untill the very end.. he had to give up those acts due to physical signs of ilness and physical drain." Freddie was not outrageous until the very end, he lived as a recluse for two years. In Queen's biography, the frontman of marillion, Fish as he was called, recalls knocking on Freddie's dressing room door during the Ibiza show in '87 to say hello. In his words he "was really drawn." In 1988 at the Barcelona concert, festival organiser Pino Sagliocco said that "there was a definite feeling about him right then of being totally closed in his own world". He can't be blamed for it of course, and carried on with great dignity but he was not the same person that he had been previously. It is obvious. When Queen got the band of the eighties award he was very quiet, whereas a few years earlier, he probably would have been bouncing around. |
abe 05.11.2005 07:20 |
Asterik your insight and knowlege reveal you have a very good understanding Queen, and especially in Mercury's final years. I was wandering when someone was going to make mention of the 80's award special, is it me? or did Mercury appear to look slightly better there than he did during the "Scandal" and "Miracle" videos?? which were made months before the 80's special. Mercury as we know and can see had become increasingly frail during 1989, but he does look slightly more healthier at that award special which I have read was filmed during November 1989, (and we can see Mercury wearing a black suit unlilke the blue suit he wore at the Brit awards which has been a topic of conversation on this site). Yes Mercury was quiet and appeared to keep to the side at the show, we can hear him faintly say to Brian "go on" as if to prompt Brian to make a small speech. Then we jump 3 months to the Brit awards and we see how gaunt and haggard Mercury appears, is it the loss of the beard that has made him look that way?? or Mercury's health taken a turn for the worse?? Are there any photos of that 80's special other than the video footage?? I suppose it is a suprise Mercury did attend the award special given the conjecture around his ailing health at the time. |
Winter Land Man 05.11.2005 14:15 |
Sicmot wrote:Well he certainly had it on his arms in Breakthru, and he performed great on it.kdj2hot wrote: I think the best way to tell then was Karposi's Sarchoma, but the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985. Now I'm a fair and balanced guy, and I havent looked closely at the Hammer to Fall performance on live aid, I think someone said Freddie had a bruise or something on his arm, so who knows maybe he knew. I'm just saying the blood test wasnt available 'til 1985Im pretty sure..had he had Karposis Sarchoma during Live Aid, there's no way he could have endured thru Magic tour the next year. to have that cancer means your CD4 levels are below that 200-300 particles in m3 of blood, which means your general condition arent that good a you cant deal all the exessive physical draining touring demands. No matter what medications if any he might have used then. And just take a look how good and lively he still looked during the Golden Rose Festival @ montreux in 86. He wasnt just as high spirited and energetic as in 84 but, there's a lot of other factories affecting to it. |
Asterik 05.11.2005 15:39 |
abe wrote: Asterik your insight and knowlege reveal you have a very good understanding Queen, and especially in Mercury's final years. I was wandering when someone was going to make mention of the 80's award special, is it me? or did Mercury appear to look slightly better there than he did during the "Scandal" and "Miracle" videos?? which were made months before the 80's special. Mercury as we know and can see had become increasingly frail during 1989, but he does look slightly more healthier at that award special which I have read was filmed during November 1989, (and we can see Mercury wearing a black suit unlilke the blue suit he wore at the Brit awards which has been a topic of conversation on this site). Yes Mercury was quiet and appeared to keep to the side at the show, we can hear him faintly say to Brian "go on" as if to prompt Brian to make a small speech. Then we jump 3 months to the Brit awards and we see how gaunt and haggard Mercury appears, is it the loss of the beard that has made him look that way?? or Mercury's health taken a turn for the worse?? Are there any photos of that 80's special other than the video footage?? I suppose it is a suprise Mercury did attend the award special given the conjecture around his ailing health at the time.Yes, a good question, Abe. Although he was quiet, Freddie did make a small salute to Jonathan Ross which showed that he could still be tongue-in cheek. I think the loss of the beard for whatever reason was a major factor in the drastic difference between then and the Brits. The beard hid the blotches and discoloured look of his face, and made it look fuller.Without the beard there is a lot of difference. Imagine Freddie without a beard on Scandal and you do get a similar picture to how he appeared at the Brits. However, I do think his condition declined. He looks like a compltely different person compared to his last clean- shaven appearance on the Miracle front cover, and if his health could decline so rapidly between Breakthru and Scandal (about three months), there is no reason why it could not deteriorate even further in another few. I think it was a slight surprise that Fred attended though he had done a radio one interview that year. I think the rumours really began at the start of 1990. |