| Serry... 09.05.2005 02:14 |
I don't know about other countries, but we in Russia today are celebrating the 60th anniversary of the Victory in the war with Germany. A lot of quests came in Moscow (Presidents (yes, George is here too), Premiers etc.) So we kicked out those fucking nazis! |
| iGSM 09.05.2005 06:59 |
Didn't the treacherous weather and the scorched Earth policy kick the Nazi's out of Russia...them, and the T-34? |
| Mr.Jingles 09.05.2005 08:23 |
Evil fighting evil. What also shouldn't be forgotten is that Stalin killed around 20 million people, most of them his own. Unlike Hitler, Stalin didn't expose his dirty laundry to the world. |
| iGSM 09.05.2005 08:31 |
Myes, Hitler was a saint. I see where you're coming from but you know how collective agriculture, Dumas and getting rid of your party allies like Trotsky, socialist recforms are and what not..*smokes corn cob pipe* |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 08:57 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Evil fighting evil. What also shouldn't be forgotten is that Stalin killed around 20 million people, most of them his own. Unlike Hitler, Stalin didn't expose his dirty laundry to the world.What's the connection between Stalin's crimes and WWII? I can name few guys who sent young Americans to die in Vietnam for nothing, but their names are forgotten and their dirty laundry exposed to the world (wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq etc.) Stalin of course wasn't a good boy at any standards, but for old men here he's one the symbols of this Victory. |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 09:01 |
iGSM wrote: Didn't the treacherous weather and the scorched Earth policy kick the Nazi's out of Russia...them, and the T-34?Weather? Maybe you mean when we kicked Napoleon out in 1812? We've lost in WWII over 20 million people and it did lasts for 4 years - I don't want to joke about this, sorry... Though T-34 did its job pretty good :) |
| Mr.Jingles 09.05.2005 09:54 |
I totally agree that Russian soldiers should be honored for their effort to defeat the Nazis. What I don't agree is with honoring Stalin after all the crimes against humanity that he has commited. I find it hard to believe that there are still Stalin statues in Russia, despite all the genocides he commited for which some believe to be somwhere between 10 to 20 million people. It wasn't until Kruschev's speech in 1956 that the whole world knew that Stalin was just about as evil as Hitler himself. |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 09:59 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:Well, again: war did lasts for 4 years on territory of Russia, do you suppose we have had only summer for these 4 years?Serry Funster wrote:Weather IS one of the important factors (the German troops were not equiped for winter), as well as Scorched Earth (stretching out supply lines and then performing small offensive actions against those lines, thus cutting the troops off from their supplies).iGSM wrote: Didn't the treacherous weather and the scorched Earth policy kick the Nazi's out of Russia...them, and the T-34?Weather? Maybe you mean when we kicked Napoleon out in 1812? We've lost in WWII over 20 million people and it did lasts for 4 years - I don't want to joke about this, sorry... Though T-34 did its job pretty good :) Yes, it's one of the important factors, but not that important as someone thinks. 'Russian winter' is cliche, before Roger came to Russia for the first time - it was winter - he thought he'd die in the first minutes of being here, because of the cold, but when he came - he even didn't wear any kind of winter hats. It's not so cold as it supposed to be. I think it's more cold in Finland or Norway than in Russia. |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 10:02 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: I find it hard to believe that there are still Stalin statues in RussiaAnd you do right, mate. There's no any Stalin statues here since 1990, I suppose. Only one - near his grave. In small sities there are still a lot of Lenin's statues, but not any of Stalin. |
| Mr.Jingles 09.05.2005 10:31 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: I can imagine Lenin. He DID free the people of an oppresive aristocratic regime.More like replacing an oppresive regime for another one. Neither communist or capitalist regimes guarantee the freedom of the people. The whole world is fucked up because instead of trying to keep things in the center there's always people pushing to the extreme left, while there's others pushing for the extreme right. |
| Sonia Doris 09.05.2005 10:35 |
Nice |
| Whisperer 09.05.2005 15:01 |
I watched the parade too today. It was great! There was still one thing that made furios. When the veterans of war were driven in the cars in front of the leaders of different countries, I was shocked to see Gerhard Schröder waving to them. I know that Schröder asked the Russian people for forgiveness for what the nazis did, but still, he is the current leader of the country that those veterans were fighting against! Btw, did you notice that Bush had something to say to someone all the time :-) |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 17:01 |
Whisperer wrote: Btw, did you notice that Bush had something to say to someone all the time :-)He had some troubles with his umbrella before the parade started. He push it and broke somehow. Our President Mr Putin have said to him "Too strong, George...". |
| doremi 09.05.2005 17:16 |
Barry © wrote: You have got to admire the Russians in WW2. German soldiers could see the Kremlin but they never ever reached it. Stalingrad was the turning point of the whole war, a great victory for Russia. The T-34 was a great tank, i think it's design with sloping armour that deflected panzer shells also played a big part in the Russian Victory in WW2. The transportation of lots of industry further east was a great feat as well.Well said and agreed. Sergey...I am Jewish...and among alot of Jews in the USA that I speak to or read about in the press and in history books...I have always heard that the only people who perhaps HATE Hitler as much if not MORE than the Jews are the people of Russia, as Hitler slaughtered so much of the population. Thank GOD...Russia also made CERTAIN, that one of the Nazi war criminals, was it Hess I believe, stayed and rotted in prison until he died. When he became old and feeble, alot of the world said, oh let the guy out of prison, he's old, show him some mercy. And many Russians said..yeah, like the so called mercy he showed when he butchered Russian men, women, and children. I agree. And, the USA and Russia have had our political differences...agreed. But...Nazi Germany...and their goal of world domination and far worse, their goal to exterminate half the world's population be it Jews, Poles, Catholics, Russians, Gays, People of color, etc....made Russia and the USA realize that in this regard, we both had a common enemy..and I personally as both a Jew and as a USA citizen who is free and alive today..want to THANK the people of Russia, whose bravery and tenacity through Hitler's brutality and the brutal Russian winters helped the Allied powers defeat Hitler and Nazi Germany. |
| Serry... 09.05.2005 17:46 |
Yeah, you're right: Rudolf Hess - he died in 1987, as I remember. |
| doremi 09.05.2005 17:55 |
Serry Funster wrote: Yeah, you're right: Rudolf Hess - he died in 1987, as I remember.Hess the butcher is what most people know him as. |
| Bob The Shrek 09.05.2005 18:35 |
Rudolph Hess parachuted into Scotland in May 1941, hoping to contact the Duke of Hamilton and arrange peace with the British Government. He was imprisoned for the duration of the war and was never privy to the 'Final Solution', which was discussed and agreed at a conference in January 1942. He may not have been the nicest man on the planet but he wasn't, in my opinion, a 'butcher' and I have never heard or read anywhere of that nickname being associated with him. |
| iGSM 09.05.2005 19:53 |
I would have much rather live under Lenin's socialist rule than the Czarist Russia that we all knew and loved, pre-1917. Give me a cheer fo' all the serfs and their debts! Are you WWII savvy, Barry? |
| iGSM 10.05.2005 07:05 |
Coo', coo', me too. That's quite awesome. I see you in a whole new light.. I got new monitor today, that's why *badoom-chish* |
| deleted user 10.05.2005 09:34 |
Serry Funster wrote: I don't know about other countries, but we in Russia today are celebrating the 60th anniversary of the Victory in the war with Germany. A lot of quests came in Moscow (Presidents (yes, George is here too), Premiers etc.) So we kicked out those fucking nazis!Shut up, you asshole. The Russian Communists murdered even more people than the Nazis - and they tortured and murdered more than 1 million German civilians when they approached Eastern Germany, the Sudetenland and Austria. The only two nations who have a right to celebrate this day are the USA and England. They really liberated Western Europe and brought democracy. You brought the Iron Curtain and 50 years of communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. So shut up, you nationalistic russian bastard! |
| Serry... 10.05.2005 09:43 |
<b><font color="red">Peter Cetera</b> wrote:Are you from austria, yeah? You'd better say then something like 'Heil Hitler'... When I see... 79% of German army was destroyed by Russian army, and 21% by American-Enlgish armies.Serry Funster wrote: I don't know about other countries, but we in Russia today are celebrating the 60th anniversary of the Victory in the war with Germany. A lot of quests came in Moscow (Presidents (yes, George is here too), Premiers etc.) So we kicked out those fucking nazis!Shut up, you asshole. The Russian Communists murdered even more people than the Nazis - and they tortured and murdered more than 1 million German civilians when they approached Eastern Germany, the Sudetenland and Austria. The only two nations who have a right to celebrate this day are the USA and England. They really liberated Western Europe and brought democracy. You brought the Iron Curtain and 50 years of communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. So shut up! Nazis killed much over than 1 million of Russian civilians, they raped women and hung children. And it was me who lived behind the Iron Curtain, not you, so don't talk about things you even don't know. You didn't get the point of track number 1 from Roger's Happiness album. And everyone can see in my post your original reply, so don't play with words like a schoolboy. So now shut your damned nazi mouth up and go to lick Hitler's photo, wanker! You're not worth anymore. (And this is for you from my friend who lost two his grandfathers in this war: Du bist Schwuchtel und Hurrensohn, lutsch meinen Schwanz!) ~Sorry to other guys for my explicit words to this motherf**er!~ |
| Mr.Jingles 10.05.2005 10:08 |
Ouuuch Peter Cetera! That's gotta hurt. After all, one of your own is the very famous racist/homophobic/chauvinist/machoist governor of California. |
| Mr.Jingles 10.05.2005 10:08 |
(Double Post) |
| iGSM 10.05.2005 10:45 |
Can't Australia celebrate either? We did..er..yeah..nothing really. Sorry for that. |
| Bob The Shrek 10.05.2005 13:01 |
iGSM wrote: Can't Australia celebrate either? We did..er..yeah..nothing really. Sorry for that.A million Australian service personnel might disagree with you! |
| doremi 10.05.2005 14:32 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Ouuuch Peter Cetera! That's gotta hurt. After all, one of your own is the very famous racist/homophobic/chauvinist/machoist governor of California.Whose own Father, I believe was a member of the Nazi party in Austria as well. |
| Mr.Jingles 10.05.2005 15:01 |
Rabid Wolverine wrote: I loive my President George W. Bush.I can see why you love him. You and him share the same grammar skills. |
| doremi 10.05.2005 19:46 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote:Watch it Mr Jingles 79 or I will send my nucular missles to strike you!Rabid Wolverine wrote: I loive my President George W. Bush.I can see why you love him. You and him share the same grammar skills. |
| iGSM 10.05.2005 20:37 |
I know that Shreky. We didn't really make ourselves that conspicuous in the European theatre. Only in Africa (Tobruk, El Alamein) and the Pacific (Midway/Papua New Guinea/Singapore) did we really shine. Oh, and in the Battle of Britain too. |
| The Leader 11.05.2005 09:08 |
I always wondered why Queen did tour "Nazi country" year after year... All the money they made there is covered with blood... |
| Mr.Jingles 11.05.2005 10:38 |
Just about every single country Queen has been on has a history of blood. I mean, their own has a long history of imperialistic obsession with power. At least until the end of WWII when the nations from the Commonwealth truly gained their independence. |
| iGSM 11.05.2005 10:41 |
How about...er..uh...yeah, I'll have to look it up. |
| The Mir@cle 11.05.2005 10:42 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Just about every single country Queen has been on has a history of blood. I mean, their own has a long history of imperialistic obsession with power. At least until the end of WWII when the nations from the Commonwealth truly gained their independence.You're right. What Holland did in Indonesia wasn't good either, and Queen still comes here (thank god). You can't judge Germany on something what happened sixty years ago. The people who were responsible for that drama, are already punished. |
| Serry... 11.05.2005 11:04 |
The Mir@cle wrote:Agree!Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Just about every single country Queen has been on has a history of blood. I mean, their own has a long history of imperialistic obsession with power. At least until the end of WWII when the nations from the Commonwealth truly gained their independence.You're right. What Holland did in Indonesia wasn't good either, and Queen still comes here (thank god). You can't judge Germany on something what happened sixty years ago. The people who were responsible for that drama, are already punished. |
| Son of Bryans Permed Poodle 11.05.2005 11:17 |
Thank you guys! You see, two small but provocative sentences can lead an overheated discussion into "calm waters"... |
| Mr.Jingles 12.05.2005 09:15 |
The Mir@cle wrote:Most Germans during the time of the Third Reich weren't Nazis.Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Just about every single country Queen has been on has a history of blood. I mean, their own has a long history of imperialistic obsession with power. At least until the end of WWII when the nations from the Commonwealth truly gained their independence.You're right. What Holland did in Indonesia wasn't good either, and Queen still comes here (thank god). You can't judge Germany on something what happened sixty years ago. The people who were responsible for that drama, are already punished. Around the time that the Nazis were gaining political power they started threatening and killing all of their political enemies. At one point it was just impossible to stop them. |
| iGSM 12.05.2005 10:36 |
I'd've said that it was quite possible to stop the NSDAP gaining power. The 1930 election when the Nazi's only pulled 6.41 million votes/18.3% of the vote. Also when the November 1932 elections polled 11.74 million votes/33.1% of the votes after they had won 37.3% of the vote in July that was an opertune time for another party to establish a strong hold/grapple from Facism. If I remember correctly there was a ruling party by..some guy. Crap, I can't remember just off hand. There were plenty of reasons why the Nazis came to power in Germany. Economic devastation all over Europe after WWI, lack of orientation of many people after the breakdown of monarchy in many European countries, humiliation of Germany at the Treaty of Versailles and the Wall Street Crash of 1929. I'm not saying what they did or that the means justified the end but I'm making a point that there was a lot that appealed to the people of Germany in the 1930's. I'll never forget the picture of the little German kids playing with Deutschmarks, making them into castles because hyperinflation made them useless. Cheers. |
| Sonia Doris 12.05.2005 12:22 |
but they didnt come to romania... *starts crying* |
| iGSM 13.05.2005 03:33 |
But that's good, right? |
| bohemian 11513 13.05.2005 09:41 |
@Holland!!! "He killed lots of Japs too yeah!!!" Roger should have named his drum solo "Let there be brain" instead of "Let there be Gene"!!! |