| onevsion 17.04.2005 10:11 |
Hello, I don't know if this has been discussed before (although i did a quick search on the notice board).. sorry if it has been discussed before.. Queen on fire at the bowl has been overdubbed. I was listening to Fat Bottomed Girls. On the bootleg i have from that show (Command Performance Milton keynes 1982) you can clearly hear Freddie hitting a false note. This is on the track FBG after 2 minutes and 19 seconds. For those of you who don't have the bootleg: Freddie sings ain't no beauty queens at this...and than the false no comes.. When you listen to the official cd from the same concert (on fire, live at the bowl) you can hear Freddie singing the same textline without the false note. After 2 minutes and 23 seconds Freddie sings the same line in Fat Bottomed Girls perfectly well.It has been overdubbed in the studio. I want a live recording, not a live recording which has been made "perfect" in the studio and is full of overdubs! That's fake. I realise most bands will use the studio overdubs on their "live" albums and queen did it before as well (live killers) but i still don't like it. Who of you has found other overdubs on the on fire cd's? What a shame also that they have edited some of Freddie's speeches out. |
| ANAGRAMER 17.04.2005 10:19 |
Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret! |
| ANAGRAMER 17.04.2005 10:21 |
Additionally,there are no dubs on Live Killers - none - period! |
| onevsion 17.04.2005 10:24 |
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| onevsion 17.04.2005 10:27 |
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| onevsion 17.04.2005 10:28 |
Ducksoup wrote:ANAGRAMER wrote: Additionally,there are no dubs on Live Killers - none - period![/QUOTE Are you serious? Take a look at link Live Killers is full of overdubs.. |
| onevsion 17.04.2005 10:31 |
Ducksoup wrote:ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!yeah.. ok maybe it's not an "overdub" but what i meant to say was: it has been made "perfect" in the studio. That's not my favourite kind of thing for a live album. |
| The Fairy King 17.04.2005 11:23 |
LIVIN' A LIE = STEPFORD! >,< |
| Negative Creep 17.04.2005 13:18 |
There are definitely no dubs on Live Killers - they had plenty of live takes to choose from for each track! And i'd say it was quite impossible for Freddie to overdub new vocals for a DVD (!!). Just clever editing I'd say. |
| The Real Wizard 17.04.2005 16:59 |
As said in my analysis (thanks for posting the link, Ducksoup), I firmly believe there are overdubs on Bicycle Race, '39, Don't Stop Me Now, and We Are The Champions. All other tampers, of which there are quite a few, are from multi-tracks of other concerts. |
| XcessQueen 17.04.2005 17:19 |
If Queen did overdub their live albums - than I'm dissapointed and very sorry to hear that. I want LIVE - whether it's prefect or not, but LIVE recording - what you HEAR is what you GET. :) |
| Fireplace 17.04.2005 17:38 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user. |
| chewing gum bum 17.04.2005 17:40 |
Being a musician myself I couldn't agree with you more. I would prefer a band leave any mistakes in their live recordings. It shows their only human but that's just me. I noticed in BoRap on the video that the piano run up coming out of the heavy section is dubbed with another run-up. It doesn't sync to well. And I heard that Freddie always dreaded that p[iano run-up and listening to many bootlegs he tenede to rush it a bit leading to minor mistakes. Also, there was originally keyboards at the begining of the show in We Will Rock You. I was ELATED when then dropped it out of the final mix for the dvd. But Queen being perfectionists did what they had to do for their art. You still gotta love it though! |
| mrjordy 17.04.2005 19:00 |
On the original "We Will Rock You" VHS, there are many seemingly overdubs. To top that, the audio is horrible - even in 5.1 digital audio. The drums and bass are completely lost throughout. I recall definite overdubs with Freddie's voice on "Play The Game", "Somebody to Love" and a couple others. Aside from the poor quality of audio and the clearly out of sync overdubs, Queen were in their best form. |
| Ayreon 18.04.2005 06:15 |
Those from We Will rock you Aren't overdubs, but excepts from the other day (2 days were recorded and mixed together for the recording) |
| Fenderek 18.04.2005 06:30 |
Ayreon wrote: Those from We Will rock you Aren't overdubs, but excepts from the other day (2 days were recorded and mixed together for the recording)Not very well mixed- should be added, hence the bad sync... |
| Fenderek 18.04.2005 06:33 |
ANYWAY- they patched the FBG thing but they left many mistakes!!! During Now I'm Here Brian played wrong chord (intro) and they didn't change it. They didn't even try to cover what happened during Guitar Solo. There are more (less obvious) and they stayed. I think it's a pretty decent documentation of what the gig was like... I love it- only LIVE KILLERS's better so far... |
| trustno1 18.04.2005 07:53 |
Fireplace wrote:Quite. If Pro Tools was indeed that powerful, we would probably be able to re-mould Freddie recordings into new songs. I wonder if that will be possible some day (using the principles of resynthesis, perhaps?).ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user. |
| Fenderek 18.04.2005 07:58 |
Oh c'mon-- they just used a vocal bit from different gig, that's the whole bloody "secret" to it... |
| Adam Baboolal 18.04.2005 09:27 |
trustno1 wrote:It already is... (NOT A JOKE)Fireplace wrote:Quite. If Pro Tools was indeed that powerful, we would probably be able to re-mould Freddie recordings into new songs. I wonder if that will be possible some day (using the principles of resynthesis, perhaps?).ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user. Peace, Adam. |
| Sandys 18.04.2005 11:19 |
I haven't notice that... I also have some bootleg videos, but not the Bowl 82. I want to share something different from the Bowl: I don't know if it's my imagination, but I perceive in the group a little distanced between them and without communication. They usually made jokes and Freedie used to make visual contact with the others, and laugh with each other. In the Bowl, I don´t perceive it. I think in the last 4 songs, Freddie goes where Roger is, but without saying nothing to him. They look weird. What do you think?, Thank God, the producers couldn't overdub it. Have a nice day to averyone! |
| Journeyfan05 18.04.2005 14:08 |
I'll take a minor alteration for quality over authenticity any day |
| Lord Blackadder 18.04.2005 14:09 |
Ducksoup wrote: Hello, I don't know if this has been discussed before (although i did a quick search on the notice board).. sorry if it has been discussed before.. Queen on fire at the bowl has been overdubbed. I was listening to Fat Bottomed Girls. On the bootleg i have from that show (Command Performance Milton keynes 1982) you can clearly hear Freddie hitting a false note. This is on the track FBG after 2 minutes and 19 seconds. For those of you who don't have the bootleg: Freddie sings ain't no beauty queens at this...and than the false no comes.. When you listen to the official cd from the same concert (on fire, live at the bowl) you can hear Freddie singing the same textline without the false note. After 2 minutes and 23 seconds Freddie sings the same line in Fat Bottomed Girls perfectly well.It has been overdubbed in the studio. I want a live recording, not a live recording which has been made "perfect" in the studio and is full of overdubs! That's fake. I realise most bands will use the studio overdubs on their "live" albums and queen did it before as well (live killers) but i still don't like it. Who of you has found other overdubs on the on fire cd's? What a shame also that they have edited some of Freddie's speeches out.Ofcourse they are going to edit out speeches on cd's. Get the DVD, that has the chit chat. As for that one overdub. I don't care. It sounds better without it, although if it was in then I wouldnt care either. The point about On Fire is that Queen played as good as they had ever done. And the versions of Action This Day, Somebody To Love, Fat Bottomed Girls and Tie Your Mother Down are the best I have ever heard. |
| Negative Creep 18.04.2005 15:18 |
They aren't overdubs, theyve been edited - slight different there. |
| OldSchool 18.04.2005 20:12 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: Just one example: don't stop me now. Queen never performed the full intro on the 'Killers' tour. So that's the most obvious one.I don't think that is true. I have always thought it would have been better, if they had just selected the best overall performance of every track; rather than splicing them together from different sources. |
| Fireplace 18.04.2005 20:39 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: Quite. If Pro Tools was indeed that powerful, we would probably be able to re-mould Freddie recordings into new songs. I wonder if that will be possible some day (using the principles of resynthesis, perhaps?).Ha! Interesting point! I don't think that they can produce results that would stand under the scrutiny of an experienced musician. If they can, I would urge Mick Jagger to retire NOW. There is another thread somewhere on this board where someone rightfully claims that you can't make something out of nothing. I do think however that if you were to isolate every single word Freddie put on tape throughout his career, reshuffle and digitally manipulate them, you would be able to make a halfway decent song/album. That being said, almost everything that was deemed impossible in recent history has in the meantime come true. I'm not sure if what Adam claims is correct (that they can already do it), but I expect it to happen in the next 10/20 years. What would personally interest me most is a way to break down stereo mixes into their original multi-tracks again, perhaps by frequency analysis or something. Now that would be heaven for remixers and musicians alike! |
| Benn 19.04.2005 04:53 |
This is is EXACTLY right - listen to the ORIGINAL version of The Who's "Live At Leeds". They then released a re-issue in 1995 which featured a few re-touches on the vocals by John Entwistle at teh start of "Heaven And Hell" - they then put out a Deluxe 2-CD version which featured the whole show, but with additional overdubs from Daltrey at the end of Tommy. This completely fucked up what was, on the ORIGINAL masters, a stunning show - warts and all. Brian's Live At Brixton Academy album is probebly the WORST example of studio tampering (alongside The Stones' Get Yer Ya Ya's Out) It's more an ego thing for the band to be honest - they don't want people to remember them for their mistakes and simply want to correct their errors etc. Personally, I'd rather ALWAYS have the unedited show, but if that's what the bend feels is right, then we can't do a great deal about it. |
| artist_nine 19.04.2005 12:32 |
Benn wrote: Brian's Live At Brixton Academy album is probebly the WORST example of studio tampering (alongside The Stones' Get Yer Ya Ya's Out)Ok, could anyone be more specific on the studio tampering of Brian's Live At Brixton Academy? I didn't think there were that many overdubs... which parts, for example, are overdubbed? |
| Benn 20.04.2005 05:36 |
We Will Rock You is *NOTHING LIKE* what was played on the night - Brian's vocals during Love Token, Too Much Love Will Kill You and Back To The Light have also been "fixed". It's more noticeable on the video actually, when Brian is at the mic and clearly what you HEAR is not what you SEE...... |
| Benn 20.04.2005 05:40 |
Actually, the only thing about the Brixton show is getting to see LOTS of Shelley Preston on the video - great girl, great ass. |
| pma 20.04.2005 05:55 |
Benn wrote: Brian's Live At Brixton Academy album is probebly the WORST example of studio tampering (alongside The Stones' Get Yer Ya Ya's Out)If Brixton was a good example, I guess you've never heard "Eagles - Live" then. Everything sounds super-fake /un-live and un-natural (that includes crowd reactions). A real orgy of overdubbing and edits. |
| Benn 20.04.2005 07:55 |
Nope, the worst example simply has to be The Stones "Got Live If You Want It" and "Get Yer Ya Yas Out" - shocking! |
| NTL 20.04.2005 10:15 |
Nope, the worst example is 'Queen Live At The Rainbow', although some people refuse to admit it. |
| Benn 20.04.2005 10:58 |
Actually, Live At The Rainbow is a GREAT example of how badly these things affect a live recording. I think the reason I overlooked it is that I have only ever watched it ONCE and after hearing it, decided that I couldn't EVER watch it again. EVERY harmony vocal in the show has been overdubbed for the studio version. Can you imagine going to the cinema to watch Led Zep's "The Song Remains The Same", and having Rainbow come on before it (which it did)? How disappointing...... |
| ANAGRAMER 23.04.2005 02:45 |
Fireplace wrote:When did he sing the overdub?ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user. |
| ANAGRAMER 23.04.2005 02:48 |
ANAGRAMER wrote:If you can't fix glitches - get some lessons on your software!Fireplace wrote:When did he sing the overdub?ANAGRAMER wrote: Don't be daft - these aren't 'overdubs' - Pro tools can fix performance glitches quite easily - happens all the time - don't fret!The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user. |
| GiantSpider 23.04.2005 06:34 |
Getting back to Fat Bottommed Girls at MK. On the Edited version that VH1 used to air (About 60 mins long) that mistake (Locality) was on there too. Also you can hear Roger harmonising with nothing. Rather good. |
| Fireplace 23.04.2005 07:59 |
Sorry, double post. |
| Fireplace 23.04.2005 07:59 |
Fireplace wrote:OK smartass, I suppose you are Justin Shirley Smith. So please explain to me how software will change pitch (possible), intonation (possible), voice quality (impossible) and lyrics (impossible) without any new source material. If you can't, kindly shut up and go bore someone else to death with your know-it-all attitude.ANAGRAMER wrote: The "glitch" Freddie made in Fat Bottomed Girls cannot possibly be repaired with ProTools. It was a major screw-up and was overdubbed. Believe me, I am a Pro Tools user.When did he sing the overdub?If you can't fix glitches - get some lessons on your software! |
| Negative Creep 23.04.2005 08:08 |
Its quite obvious there aren't any studio overdubs on MK, unless Freddie has been brought back from the dead. They will have used Protools to patch things in from other performances to cover anything up - they can also obviously mix the tracks differently to help cover such errors up. |
| Fireplace 23.04.2005 09:35 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: To 'patch in things from other performances' is surprisingly close to the dictionary definition of 'overdub'You are absolutely correct, the only difference is whether the repairs were made with specifically recorded material (studio overdub)or other live versions from the same tour were used. There is NO "fix f***ed up vocal" button in Pro Tools. |
| Negative Creep 23.04.2005 09:57 |
Not really. To say its been overdubbed would suggest the band have gone back in to the studio and replaced any errors with new takes - which they did not. Its been edited, not overdubbed. |
| GiantSpider 23.04.2005 12:31 |
Either way it isn't what was heard on the nite and therefore isn't really "Live" is it? |
| David Lee Rocks 23.04.2005 17:16 |
How could Freddie overdub himself when he died 14 years ago? |
| djaef 23.04.2005 18:07 |
I'm sure I read on Brian's site back when the On Fire at the Bowl was released, that they did fix the glitch in FBG. I don't remember whether he wrote how. But one thing is sure - it has been fixed. I've read that Live Killers analysis before, and I was very disappointed to think that they not only mixed performances to make a pastiche live concert, but that they may have used various performances with the individual songs!! WTF! I was wondering if this site was ever sent to Brian to get a reaction from him. I'm still in doubt about the analysis, but neither have I access to the source materials the author has. I really love that album either way, but it'd be a bit of a blow to think the analysis is totally correct... |
| GiantSpider 24.04.2005 05:56 |
The Tribute concert [DVD] is also full of overdubs. |
| NTL 25.04.2005 18:49 |
A good overdub example on Live Killers is Love of my life, I think the original is from Frankfurt where Fred's voice 'cracked' a few times during this song. If you listen to the version on LK you can clearly hear at various points the lead vocal has been 'double tracked'. And this is not a case of taking the Lead Vocal from another performance and sticking it on top, this is the case of a man who has gone into a studio and tried to perfectly copy the original vocal. |
| kohuept 26.04.2005 11:06 |
This is just a guess about the FBG fix since I don't really doubt it is from another show, but, at first, I figured they could have taken the part of "locality" that is NOT 'cracked' and stretch it to cover the whole word. I can do simple things like that with the idiot software that came with Nero so it seems it should be extraordinarily simple with something like ProTools. Also, about Roger harmonizing with nothing... I always thought that was Freddie's actual vocal bleeding into the other mics. Interresting. |
| ANAGRAMER 01.06.2005 15:10 |
Ducksoup wrote:Ducksoup wrote:Name themANAGRAMER wrote: Additionally,there are no dubs on Live Killers - none - period![/QUOTE Are you serious? Take a look at link Live Killers is full of overdubs.. |
| ANAGRAMER 01.06.2005 15:11 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:DittoANAGRAMER wrote: Additionally,there are no dubs on Live Killers - none - period!That's bullshit One word: S-T-E-P-F-O-R-D |
| NOTWMEDDLE 01.06.2005 23:51 |
Pink Floyd's Pulse has some solos taken from other shows as PF recorded all of their shows in Europe and England from July to October of 1994. On High Hopes, the "forever and ever" phrase Guy Pratt and Jon Carin sang before David Gilmour's ending lap steel guitar solo was from another show and one part of his ending lap steel guitar solo was taken from another show. Pro-Tools were first used in the early 1990s and Pulse's fix-ups were from other shows and David Gilmour and Nick Mason as did engineer James Guthrie that no one went in to re-do their parts during the mixing sessions for Pulse. Queen fixing the flub note on Fat Bottomed Girls on On Fire was no problem. Also, on David Gilmour's David Gilmour in Concert DVD, the fix-ups were from the dress rehearsal to fix the vocal mistakes of DG's as his throat was sore from going to an Eagles concert a few nights before. KISS recorded all of Alive in the studio with crowd noises looped! |
| Mcm 03.06.2005 20:59 |
One of the things that annoy's me about this DVD is the bit where they use footage from when they're actually playing the Tie your Mother Down intro, during the Now I'm Here intro. The searchlight on the crowd bit. Unneccesary meddling IMO. |