QueenZone discussion #502324

<font color=silver>Lord Dennis<h6>Sacret wrote: why are all these people now a day asking wether others can send stuff for free through the internet. why don't they try to buy it from a trader or trade it with him. The mentellaty of gettign bootlegs is getting week.

Rip Van Winkle wrote: The reason for the backlash is probably results from posters who mostly post begging topics, but appear to never share anything themselves.

Rip Van Winkle wrote: Someone paid hundreds of dollars for that item. Dark - Are you prepared to throw away hundreds of dollars of your own money? Why should he throw his money away? Why don't you make him an offer? Maybe he will sell it to you, and then you can upload it. There are plenty of live versions of Hangman available, so having an mp3 of a studio version should not be a life or death situation.

djaef wrote: But isn't it the acetate itself that is worth the money? Not the song. Even if everyone has an mp3 of it (which in itself is worthless) the original acetate is still worth a lot of money. That's the way I understand it anyway. I don't see how digital versions of anything bring the value down of real product. Like I mean, there are untold millions of copies of Bohemian Rhapsody, but in no way does that fact lower the value of the very rare blue single.

<B><font color=#ff7f00>Brenski</B> wrote:

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations? you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers: "Queen - Early Jewels" 1. silver salmon 2. mad the swine 3. polar bear 4. de lane lea demos 5. larry lurex x2 6. left hand marriage x3 7. wreckage x3 8. ibex x9 9. hangman - rare studio recording fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set? one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?

exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not.

bitesthedust wrote:

<B><font color=#ff7f00>Brenski</B> wrote:

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations? you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers: "Queen - Early Jewels" 1. silver salmon 2. mad the swine 3. polar bear 4. de lane lea demos 5. larry lurex x2 6. left hand marriage x3 7. wreckage x3 8. ibex x9 9. hangman - rare studio recording fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set? one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?

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exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not. I've taken my bootleg trading site off the 'net now as there's not the interest anymore...people are requesting shows to uploaded on yousendit.com or rapidshare. There's always the Queenhouse FTP site too.

YourValentine wrote: Maybe it's our own fault that we "raised" this generation of beggars with our own generosity. It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub.

taylorgaga (Begg) wrote: we all do, we all love collectin shows and tracks but like u sed some people are stingy and wont share, but then u have annoyin ass holes kile me who just beg beg beg, which i apologies for, its the way it goes unfortunatly.

<font color=#FF399> Linda Of The Valley wrote:

John S Stuart wrote: Linda: To me your point: "What I'm saying is, not EVERYONE can join the hub and not EVERYONE has a big enough collection to share stuff... But what is terrible, is the amount of people who download stuff with no appreciation or thanks." - is both elloquent and logical. My point hopefully recognises this and builds upon it to take the discussion to the next stage. That is - if what you say is correct - for these very SAME people to to cry out "I want more!", AFTER they have already looted the store of all its content - beggers belief. Then when they are told - "the store is empty - you have ALL there is", they turn around and say "but a few elite traders have... and I want that too". Finally if they were given access to this, their cry would be, "why buy special edition CDs?". To me, these are NOT Queen fans, but cheapskates who have NO intention of ever buying anything - so the whole argument is a sham anyway - because no matter whatever was offered to them, they EXPECT free copies anyway.

I agree completely. You may think I'm a hypocrite as the only things I've bought as yet are official releases. (If only I had more money...) But, I don't think that makes me less of a Queen Fan just because I don't have all these bootleg cds...

John S Stuart wrote: The thing is I take "pride" in my collection - it has been a life-long passion. For example, I was not long married, and had two small children to support, when Queen released the "Complete Works" box-set. The price (then) was roughly £75.00 - or the same as about one week's wage - and however you cut it one week's wage in 1985, and one weeks wage 20 years later - is still 25% of a monthly income. To afford this, I had to sacrafice. I had to defer bills. I had to rob Peter to Pay Paul. Most of all, I had to stop drinking for a few weeks, but, the end result is that I love that set. I appreciate that set, and most of all - it is a nice artifact in my collection.

John S Stuart wrote: As for the comment that an MP3 does not detract from the value of the acetate, while this may hold true of prints of the Mona Lisa, it does not hold true for music because if the music itself is unreleased or unheard - this undoubtedly adds to the value of the disc (or cassette tape - or whatever).

YourValentine wrote: It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub.

YourValentine wrote: And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous.

YourValentine wrote: And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid.

YourValentine wrote: And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous. Why should anybody do this? If some day Queen Productions dip into their pockets and buy such rare stuff from collectors and publish it we will all be able to buy them. As long as it does not happen, the collectors in question would be stupid to make their precious collection public domain. I would not do it if I owned such a rare recording. And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid. Most traders have been collecting for years, spending a lot of time and money to get what they have - you all can do that if you want. If you are not willing to spend that much time and money. you won't have all the available recordings, it's that easy.

djaef wrote: The whole principle of the Queen hub(s) is that people can share their Queen collections with others. For free! No burning cds, no money changing hands, no sending stuff in the mail and hoping it'll arrive (or that its arrival is acknowledged), no secret clubs or traders who hold stuff back for financial gain... just free trading amongst Queen fans. Now I'm not sure where I stand regarding rare stuff. One thing is to collect rare officially released product. Good on you if that's what turns you on, and you have a fat enough wallet to do it. But collecting mp3s or flac files or whatever of concerts and rare demos etc, why would you not want to share them. Gaining financially off them is called bootlegging and it is frowned upon by Queen themselves. I'm sure Queen would much prefer if concerts were freely traded by individuals than fans paying money to someone who had recorded a concert and sold it. I think the old fashioned form of trading (cd-r swap) is going the way of the dinosaur, and I for one don't understand the mentality behind keeping back a bootleg from others. Sure, you might have paid money for it at one time, but is it a virtue to then want others to pay money to get it? I don't condone the sharing of officially available albums (I do draw a line at rarer versions and demos etc) but as for bootlegs, let them be free. Liberate them from the bootleggers that's what I say. I'd like to hear other points of view. What is so wrong with requesting stuff? I recently gave away 3 cds of queen concerts (I even paid the postage), and it gave me a good feeling that they were going to give someone else pleasure. So I don't get the whole hoarding mentality. Fire away!

YourValentine wrote: If the truth makes me arrogant and aggressive, so be it. Then I have nothing to discuss with you, but don't give this "if you can't handle it, don't discuss" attitude - I know what I am talking about

YourValentine wrote: Okay, what I understand from your post you re-encode mpg files on DVD and pretend they are DVD quality - then you sell them to other fans. How low is that?

YourValentine wrote: @ djaef: I did not call you or anyone else stupid or ridiculous. I call certain discussions stupid and ridiculous. My post was not even aimed at you, but you felt entitled to insult me.

John S Stuart wrote: Inu Yasha: "It'd be nice if those private collectors would let available the stuff that's either extremely rare or virtually unavailable at the moment... Eg. Hangman acetate" This sort of comment really pisses me off. First: What have YOU shared? "Teo Torriate" and Kerry Ellis "No One But You" OFFICIAL releases. Hardly anything spectacular! As far as I see, I own NO one any favours - especially you Dark.

Second: Whatever I have in my collection, as YV has already stated, is the result of "Indiana Jones" type digging - and are the results of a lot of research and hard work. For those who envy - get off your butt and do the same.

As for the comment that an MP3 does not detract from the value of the acetate, while this may hold true of prints of the Mona Lisa, it does not hold true for music because if the music itself is unreleased or unheard - this undoubtedly adds to the value of the disc (or cassette tape - or whatever).

But my main beef is not Hangman - or free MP3's - it is both ATTITUDE and leeching. We have created an ATTITUDE of "I want", "I deserve" and worse still - "I leech".