Mr.Jingles 27.01.2005 18:03 |
And I thought that they couldn't have possibly lowered themselves even more. link |
geeksandgeeks 27.01.2005 18:11 |
*sigh* I heard about that. Pretty stupid, yes, but not entirely unexpected. |
Mr.Jingles 27.01.2005 18:18 |
So much for that tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness, patience, and love that Jesus used to preach. These hypocrites got it the complete opossite way. They're just pissed off about the rise of popularity of gay culture in American with hit shows like 'Will & Grace', 'Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, and Ellen DeGeneres talk show. It seems like Americans are putting aside the negative gay stereotypes of extreme flamboyance and promuscuity, to be able to accept gays as normal people. |
KillerQueen840 27.01.2005 18:29 |
Haha, my cousin showed me that a few days ago. It's so funny that they can accuse a cartoon character of being gay. Probably just cos of that one episode where Spongebob becomes Patricks "wife" when they adopt the clam. I will agree, that's pretty low. I'm proud to be Catholic, but it is certain points such as being against gays that I disagree with. |
Gunpowder Gelatine 27.01.2005 18:44 |
I read that a few days ago. I can't believe what people get offended by. And of all cartoons, why Spongebob? I mean, if anybody on that show is gay, it'd probably be Squidward! ;) |
Mr.Jingles 27.01.2005 18:49 |
<font color="lime">KillerQueen840 wrote: Haha, my cousin showed me that a few days ago. It's so funny that they can accuse a cartoon character of being gay. Probably just cos of that one episode where Spongebob becomes Patricks "wife" when they adopt the clam. I will agree, that's pretty low. I'm proud to be Catholic, but it is certain points such as being against gays that I disagree with.You made a really good point there. Just because you're christian (whether you're Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, etc.) doesn't mean that you're an ultra-conservative fundamentalist nut. I was raised Catholic, though I don't really follow Catholicism as my religion, and rather consider myself an agnostic/christian (sounds weird I know). The truth is that a lot of christian religious leaders in America like Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell encourage nothing but hatred against anyone who is gay, liberal, or non-christian. |
Yogurt 27.01.2005 18:51 |
I always thought of Spongebob to be those innocent cartoons that does something weird, and doesn't think of it in a nasty way. |
KillerQueen840 27.01.2005 19:33 |
Gunpowder Gelatine wrote: I read that a few days ago. I can't believe what people get offended by. And of all cartoons, why Spongebob? I mean, if anybody on that show is gay, it'd probably be Squidward! ;)Squidward rocks! I think he's the best character! I get the most laughs from him. I used to hate that show when it first came out, but after my brother watched it so many times I started to like it, and now I just think it is hilarious, especially for a children's cartoon. |
Hitman 27.01.2005 19:38 |
my humble opinion: i think there are so many contraddiction in US culture, not exactly in the Catholic group; i mean here in Italy noone would react this way, and catholics are still the biggest part of the population. i really think the problem is in some american's minds, really confused in what tolerance is and isn't. i really don't want to offend usa people, just some way of thinking, a bit exagerated that grows in usa. (an im afraid is also political influenced) thank you for the attention |
SergeantPepperDG 27.01.2005 20:11 |
"Christian Conservative groups have issued a GAY ALERT warning over a children's video starring SpongeBob SquarePants, Barney and a host of other cartoon favorites." Haha... GAY ALERT! GAY ALERT! ABANDON SHIP!!! |
inu-liger 27.01.2005 20:14 |
And I would've thought Pikachu would've been next in the 'gay attacks queue' :P |
iron eagle 27.01.2005 20:16 |
thats right people it wasnt good enough that we had real tv shows we also have to get the cartoons so we can corrupt you breeders even further... *laughs the top secret gay evil laugh* |
Daburcor? 27.01.2005 20:31 |
You damned gays... Corrupting the children and all. You should be ashamed! ;) |
Mr.Jingles 27.01.2005 21:53 |
If that's all the fuss they started for having an educational video featuring SpongeBob, imagine what would have happened if they showed Bananas In Pajamas. |
iron eagle 27.01.2005 22:09 |
link |
Daburcor? 27.01.2005 22:18 |
iron eagle wrote: linkBEAUTIFUL!!! LMAO!!! |
Mr.Jingles 27.01.2005 22:57 |
It goes even worse than that... link |
iGSM 28.01.2005 02:08 |
< Isn't he the guy that Hustler dumped on in the 70's? I agree however. It's stupid. Everything is gay in some way, shape or form to these type of characters. |
Sonia Doris 28.01.2005 04:22 |
Hitman wrote: my humble opinion: i think there are so many contraddiction in US culture, not exactly in the Catholic group; i mean here in Italy noone would react this way, and catholics are still the biggest part of the population. i really think the problem is in some american's minds, really confused in what tolerance is and isn't. i really don't want to offend usa people, just some way of thinking, a bit exagerated that grows in usa. (an im afraid is also political influenced) thank you for the attentiontrue... unfortunately... |
dragonzflame 28.01.2005 14:52 |
The sad thing is, gay people are harmless enough - in fact all the ones I know are a right laugh - but they don't get to breed. Fundamentalist Christians do get to breed and they'll go on creating generations of dirty-minded bigots. |
Music Man 28.01.2005 16:13 |
How is this going too far? Sounds boring to me. |
1quen_fan 28.01.2005 16:40 |
U shut up!!!:( I am a devout Christen!!! |
1quen_fan 28.01.2005 16:41 |
When i say shut up i am talking to Mr.Jingles |
deleted user 28.01.2005 16:55 |
Nice way to handle a discussion like an adult, Alex. |
7Innuendo7 28.01.2005 18:14 |
devout Christians realize prejudice is a sin; those who belong to secret societies, such as Skull & Bones, cannot de facto contribute to "one heart, one mind, one faith" by endorsing secret exclusive meetings; ultra-conservatives reap what they sow too. love is what matters |
jasen101 28.01.2005 22:23 |
This is why I have no respect for Christians in general. They make me sick. A bunch of self righteous, condesending fools. Fuck em'. PS - I'm sure there are many very nice christian people....but unfortunately just a few can spoil the batch. |
Awesome-O _4000 28.01.2005 23:53 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: It goes even worse than that... linkO My Gosh!!! You guys'll never believe this... Those nutcases protested at my church! They're from Topeka Kansas and they go around to churches protesting gay tolerance. It was ridiculous! There was a ten year old w/ a sign that said: "God Hates Fags". The world is so sick. |
Pluto 29.01.2005 12:26 |
That is sick. |
1quen_fan 29.01.2005 12:27 |
*****sigh****** I guess no1 here is with me.:( |
Pluto 29.01.2005 12:40 |
What do you mean no one here is with you do you mean no one here is against gays and shrimp? Because if you do than I can understand why no one here is with you because no one here are closed minded christians who think the only people who are good are god loving biggits. If you mean that no one else is a christian then you are wrong because there are some people here who are christians just not the ultr-canservative types. Can you please clear up by what you mean when you say no one is with you? Thanks, Pluto |
KillerQueen840 29.01.2005 13:15 |
I just thought of something...if we insult people for insulting other people..doesn't that make us sink down to their level? |
deleted user 29.01.2005 13:17 |
Yep. |
KillerQueen840 29.01.2005 13:20 |
<font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:"This is why I have no respect for Christians in general. They make me sick. A bunch of self righteous, condesending fools. Fuck em'.<font color="lime">KillerQueen840 wrote: I just thought of something...if we insult people for insulting other people..doesn't that make us sink down to their level?Yes, it does. But I haven't seen anyone here insulting them. PS - I'm sure there are many very nice christian people....but unfortunately just a few can spoil the batch." Sorry..I thought I found that a bit insulting. |
deleted user 29.01.2005 13:24 |
Same here, Jess. |
1quen_fan 29.01.2005 18:21 |
Sorry for getting mad earlier.:) |
tymd 30.01.2005 01:15 |
In this forum there are post encouraging tolarance.Some post call for the ultra- concervative Christians to be ELIMINATED??? Does this seem tolorant? I'm Christian and have gay / lesbian friends.We are all Gods' creation and equal.No one has any right to judge another.Christ called us to love everyone.Even our enemys.We are all equal because we all have sinned.I guess my point is tolarance is a two way street.Terrible acts have been comitted in the name of religon.The crusades for instance.The problem lies not in religon itself, but the fact that all religons are comprised of humans and no human is without sin.Did not intend this to be a sermon.The fact is the teachings of Christ i.e. Love your neighbor,Love your enemy and to serve our fellow man is what Christianity is about. Christ teachings have not been chalenged in 2000 years.Have Christians lived by these teachings? Not by a long shot. This does not take away the thuth of the teachings? Peace be with you all. |
1quen_fan 30.01.2005 08:45 |
Rock in tymd! |
Mr.Jingles 30.01.2005 09:03 |
1quen_fan wrote: When i say shut up i am talking to Mr.JinglesWell, then I guess you must be a christian ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE. Is that why you felt offended? Let me remind you (and everybody else) that not all christians (including myself) fall under the stereotype of being ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE, or EXTREME RIGHT-WING. I consider myself a christian, but I respect gay people's rights and I'm pro-choice. Now, many devoted conservative christians could tell you that I could not possibly be christian by having liberal ideas. Let me remind you that Jesus was in many ways a liberal... he was totally against violence, prejudice, hate, and any kind of opression from a higher power against a lower class. As much as I disagree with you, I also totally disagree with the opossite point of view from Jansen. Who just seems to generalize by saying that all christians are nothing but religious nuts. Turns out to be that many Queenzoners here were raised christians, and some of them actually follow the religion, others have a tendency to not be so religious with a certain leaning to agnosticism. Yet, it doesn't matter. Generalizing ALL christians in a negative way, is just as bad as calling all Muslims terrorists, or terrorist supporters. |
SergeantPepperDG 30.01.2005 11:56 |
This is a little bit off topic, but I love this list: 12 Reasons Gay Marriage Will Ruin Society- 1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural. 2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children. 3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children. 4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears's 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful. 5. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed at all: women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal. 6. Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities. 7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That's why we only have one religion in America. 8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall. 9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license. 10. Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children. 11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans. 12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians. |
SergeantPepperDG 30.01.2005 11:58 |
ALSO... "Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses sex advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as anobservant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abominaton according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in anyircumstance. The followingis an Open Letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident,which was posted on the Internet": Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them. a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? She's 18 and starting University. Will the slave buyer continue to pay for her education by law ? c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians? e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project ? f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help ? h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan. |
SergeantPepperDG 30.01.2005 21:57 |
No way. I'm not that creative. |
Awesome-O _4000 30.01.2005 22:11 |
<font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: The only gospel in which Jesus preaches Tolerance and acceptance (The Gospel Of Thomas) was left out of the Bible. I should say that says enough about fundamentalist views on these isues.What? I must be misunderstanding you... Have you forgotten in the book of Matthew where Jesus says: "Let you who is without sin cast the first stone" ? If that's not teaching tolerance I don't know what is. |
bellydancer 30.01.2005 22:15 |
Here here to some of the above opinions. Myself, I was raised Catholic BUT I no longer practise since becoming an adult as I found too much hypocrisy in their teachings - eg when I got divorced from my first marriage the civil divorce was a picnic compared to the Catholic one. If I may hop on the bandwagon here (and hopefully not fall off and hurt myself!) I think the problem is that the fundamental lessons taught by Christ, that is, love God, love your fellow man and to lead a good, honest life, has been completely warped over thousands of years by mankinds' (general term please no pc admonishments) interpretation of what that message was. We must remember that during the Medieval period, Chrisitanity was damaged by the powerful and rich who used it as a weapon against the defenceless, uneducated poor (no this is not a typical "class" argument!) and after that historical period eventuated a lot of the diverse Christian churches who yet again made their own rules as they wanted to "cleanse" themselves from the corruptness and debauchery of the Catholic church. Hence why we have a lot of Christian fanatics who are descendants of those splinter churches. At the end of the day, I think it is a case that these so-called Christians are more along the lines of what we fear or cannot understand, we tend to tear down or destroy. I feel sorry for these close-minded biggots. What a surprise they will get at the end. |
tymd 31.01.2005 00:29 |
79, I did not feel offended.I gave my opinion.It was what i believe.Peace |
bellydancer 31.01.2005 17:24 |
And lets not forget that one of Jesus' best friends was a prostitute! |
1quen_fan 31.01.2005 17:27 |
Mary Magline wasn't a prostitue.That's just a rumor. |
1quen_fan 31.01.2005 17:29 |
Sorry for not understaning ealier. I am a Christan but i think it is dumb for them to try and cancel Spongbob. Really it's a children's show for Heaven's sake! |
MetzgerR 01.02.2005 00:57 |
I've never watched SpongeBob, so I really can't comment there - although attacking a children's program doesn't seem to be particularly intelligent to me. However, I did just want to add my two cents to the ongoing debate, even though I doubt I can say anything that hasn't already been mentioned...again, and again, and again. What exactly is a Christian ultra-conservative? I'm not trying to be stupid, but honestly, the term is extraordinarily vague. I mean, I consider myself to be a conservative Southern Baptist. That doesn't mean I agree with every single thing that the Southern Baptist Convention decides or states - though by many standards, simply being a Southern Baptist is enough to qualify me as very conservative. I know what I believe, and I feel that I have every bit of a right to my beliefs as more liberal athiests or agnostics or Christians or Muslims do. It is okay for me to believe that abortion is a morally wrong action - but that doesn't mean I hate or attack women who have had abortions. It simply means I disagree with something they've done. And there's nothing wrong with that. It is not narrow-minded or bigoted...it is simply what I choose to believe. I have always understood tolerance to mean that I do not force my views, opinions, and beliefs on those around me. In my day to day life, I rarely bring up my convictions, especially verbally. Unless I am asked, it is very out of character for me to state my convictions and beliefs in casual conversation. I have learned, over the years, to avoid bringing up my Christianity because invariably, I am attacked. It's rather funny, when I think about it. The same behaviour I find appalling in my parents - their attacks on me for listening to Queen, when Freddie Mercury was gay - is the very behaviour I find myself subjected to on this message board - an impersonal attack on me because I am a conservative Christian. To be honest, I take no offence at what Mr. Jingles wrote...that I don't think was aimed at me, or any of the other Christians I know (kind of) and respect on here, such as Miss James. But the other attacks, by various others - Alex Solan, most notably - are inexcusable. I am not about to apologize for being conservative, nor for being a Christian. I am proud of both facts, and I don't see any point in apologizing for what I am. But maybe it might help if I put in perspective what some conservative Christians are like: My best friend is gay. My sixteen year old cousin is an unmarried mother, and a sophomore in high school - and she's one of the sweetest girls I know. I disagree with abortion, and am staunchly pro-life, but I've defended women who've had abortions from verbal attacks made by Christian fanatics (incidentally, I think they don't deserve to claim the Christian name, but that is their right, alas). My favourite children's books are the Chronicles of Narnia and the Harry Potter series, and I think J K Rowling is a literary genius. I adore Queen, Gothic novels, foreign languages, dance, and flirting. I go to church three times a week, and used to play in the youth orchestra. I read books on dating, because it's not particularly popular at my church, and despite the fact that my family thinks I should wait until I'm over twenty, serious about marriage, and want to 'court,' I think it's fun to have casual dates over the weekend. I disagree with premarital sex on moral grounds, but think it despicable to judge others. And I'm not out of the ordinary for being a conservative Christian teen... I guess that, in essence, is what I'm trying to say. Yes, there are crazy, whacko Christian fanatics - just as there are crazy, whacko PETA fanatics, and crazy, whacko Muslim fanatics. I don't believe any group, religion, or faith should be judged by the fringe groups - on either extreme. I know this response seems to be a case of serious over-reacting, and maybe it is. But in the months I've been here, I've s |
tymd 01.02.2005 04:22 |
Judy, Very good post.There is growing opposition to Christians.You responded with respect and love which is the core of Christianity.Your seem to have strong faith.Peace be with you. |
deleted user 01.02.2005 08:22 |
Excellent post, Judy. |
SergeantPepperDG 01.02.2005 08:32 |
<font color=purple>Miss James wrote: Excellent post, Judy.I agree! |
iGSM 01.02.2005 09:22 |
The only thing that annoys me about Christians (I'm one so there) is that the evil priest in Footloose wouldn't let those kids dance! WHY? WHY?!!? Good movie in the end. |
tymd 05.02.2005 05:12 |
Christ wants peace for everyone.His followers should want the same.I was responding to her post.I did not intend to mean to exclude other people . Peace to EVERYONE |
iGSM 05.02.2005 06:17 |
I seriously think we should look for some form of sanity in Matthew 21:17. It makes sense and is relavent in this context. |
Mr.Jingles 05.02.2005 13:34 |
SergeantPepperDG wrote:That was probably the most intelligent post of 2005 so far.<font color=purple>Miss James wrote: Excellent post, Judy.I agree! I'm a liberal christian, and I respect those who lean more towards the conservative side without crossing the line by enforcing their views. Judy prooved her point in a very good way, and even though I don't particularly share all her views, she did it in such a great way that she makes you listen and think. |
1quen_fan 05.02.2005 21:18 |
Yeah it does make you listen and think. |
1quen_fan 05.02.2005 21:19 |
Ummm.. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what is a Christen comservative? |
Victoria 05.02.2005 23:51 |
Back to the original topic, a few decades back (about four) there were more questionable characters in the media (anyone ever heard of Robin from Batman and Robin?). So to all of a sudden get uppity about this connotation in harmless characters seems rather crazy to me. |
superfrodo 06.02.2005 00:25 |
Um...a Christian conservative is basically a Christian who views the Bible literally and in black and white, rather than a Christian who views the Bible in a more symbolic light. And here's what I think about the whole thing: A few years ago, I met a handsome, sweet, intelligent guy, and we became very close friends. After a while, I fell head-over-heels in love with him (I'd never been in love before). We were both very mature for a couple of 15-year-olds, and we even talked about getting married. But then, when I finally decided to tell him that I loved him, he told me that he was gay. Naturally, I was devastated. But I never stopped loving him. I believe that homosexuality is a sin and I don't approve of homosexual practice, but that's no reason for anyone to hate homosexuals. After all, everyone sins. Unfortunately, though, my friend began taking part in some extremely risky behavior. When I tried to help him, he pushed me away, and he eventually stopped talking to me. Things are better for us now - we're friends again. But we're not as close as we were by any means and things will never be the same. I've never regretted trying to discourage him from practicing homosexuality. He got himself into some dangerous situations, and I couldn't just stand back and watch him do that to himself. I did it because I loved him, and I still love him. But I don't think he's ever really loved me. I don't think he's ever really loved himself. It's a long and complicated story (homosexuality is a pretty complicated issue in itself). And it's a sad one, too. But, the fact of the matter is, you don't have to approve of someone's behavior to prove that you love them. You just have to love them. But, it's true, there are some crazy people out there who judge other people. That's not right. My thing is that I don't believe that hell is a place where you go after you die. God is a loving God...he's too loving and merciful to send people to hell. So God doesn't send people to hell...people send themselves to hell. If people want to live in hell, then they'll live in it. And the sad thing is that most people don't even realize that they're doing it...they don't realize that they've made their lives a living hell. Sinning feels so wonderful, after all! You wanna hear something ultra-conservative? Well, there's this lady at my church whom I absolutely CANNOT stand. She's a total fundamentalist - I swear, the woman has two kids but she still acts like the freaking Virgin Mary. She only lets her kids listen to contemporary Christian music - no other music of any kind (except maybe classical). So one day I was over at the church helping set up for some fundraiser or something, and I was bored so I went over to the house and got a Queen CD to play while we were setting up. And the lady totally FLEW off the handle at me and told me that they weren't listening to my devil music. My dad's the pastor, and he bought the CD for me for Christ's sake. That bitch! - Tiff |
jasen101 06.02.2005 03:05 |
Hey Superfrodo...fuck you you stupid bitch! **sorry but I am very insulted by this persons post** I have no respect for anyone who thinks I'm a sinner because I'm gay. This is why I have no respect for idiots like you...you don't want gays to be hated, but you think it's ok to categorize them as sinners? |
Mr.Jingles 06.02.2005 08:51 |
Jansen, cool it down. I know you felt offended but don't take it to hard by just throwing insults. I also disagree and I have to say that nowhere in the Bible there's a straight interpretation that condemns homosexuality as a sin. There's a couple of passages (most specifically about 'Sodom and Gomorrah'), but I think it rather condemns rape adultery as a sin. One thing that I have no doubt about is that promiscuity and any kind of sex without love is a sin, and that goes for both gay and straight people. Here's a very good link about the issue: link |
Victoria 06.02.2005 13:31 |
I forgot to mention another way you interpret normal, harmless things into a way of accepting gay society: food. I remember way back when I was a kid how there used to be 7 lucky charms (in the cereal). Makes sense, with seven being the notoriously famous lucky number. Anyhow, when I was a kid they added an 8th one, the rainbow. So beware ultra-conservative parents! Don't feed your kids evil food! |
superfrodo 06.02.2005 18:51 |
Whoa jasen...apparently you're too blind to read the rest of my post. Everyone sins, dude. Every last one of us. If you ask me, you're a fucking hypocrite. Because you're gonna get pissed at me for what you would call "shoving" my beliefs down your throat. But you want to shove yours as hard as it will go. What the hell is your problem? I have a lot of respect and love for gay people...I tried to explain that. But it doesn't seem like you have very much respect for me at all. So in the words of Freddie Mercury (whom I idolize, by the way), "If you don't get it, then fuck you, darling." |
1quen_fan 06.02.2005 19:00 |
U r cool Mr.Jingles!! |
bellydancer 06.02.2005 22:13 |
To Jasen & Superfrodo - hey guys chill out! Don't you see that by you guys getting angry at each other that you are validating these "ultra conservatives" (I am loathe to call them true Christians)? At the end of the day - WHO CARES what their opinions are??? If you are a decent person and try to do the right thing throughout your life then I think that is all God wants us to do. And may I say, and probably will attract criticism here but I don't really give a rats, the Bible is basically just a certain group of people's interpretation of God's rules and history. One must remember that the people of that age were quite superstitious and ritualistic. The Old Testament was their way of explaining certain events in the way they comprehended at the time. Take for instance, the common everyday household item, the lightbulb. Now to us, its just that. Take it back in time to Old Testament society and it would have been beyond their comprehension - and most things were then put into two baskets - a miracle from God or the work of the devil. SO, the point I'm trying to make is maybe we shouldn't be looking so much as to how to apply the majority of the Old Testament to our lives as we live in a different time. If one is looking for answers then maybe they should look at the New Testament and the simple messages of Christ's teachings which are still relavent today. |
jasen101 06.02.2005 22:25 |
You know guys...i'm actually a nice person....i'm just gay...I was born that way...and i don't want to be looked at as a "sinner" or "dammed"! Why? The reason why I get so upset is because people say they dont hate gays but they still feel homosexuality is wrong and a sin! That is a complete contradiction in my mind...and is very insulting. Like saying I "have nothing against jews but they are damned because they deny Jesus"... How the hell can a "sexuality" be wrong??...i mean it's the way you're made....either straight or gay...I'm tired of being judged...I'm tired of people telling me I'm going to hell just because I was born a certain way. |
jasen101 06.02.2005 22:26 |
PS. I agree with you 100% mr jingles |
iGSM 06.02.2005 22:37 |
I, personally, have never sinned. *worships false idol* I too agree with jasen. Good point. I guess the Bible is a one way ticket to Heaven while ignoring the personality of a gay person. That didn't really make sense when I thought of it. |
The Mir@cle 07.02.2005 03:14 |
Wouldn't life be a lot easier without the bible? Personally I'm not religious. I respect everyone who respects me and I don't care about their religion, their colour, nationality or sexual preferance. I support the Dutch law of allowing gay marriages and abortion. I mean, everbody has the right to live their life the way they want to, don't they? |
KillerQueen840 07.02.2005 07:14 |
The Mir@cle wrote: Wouldn't life be a lot easier without the bible? Personally I'm not religious. I respect everyone who respects me and I don't care about their religion, their colour, nationality or sexual preferance. I support the Dutch law of allowing gay marriages and abortion. I mean, everbody has the right to live their life the way they want to, don't they?The Bible is just history+guidlines to help. Everyone can still live how they want cos they have free will. :-) |
Mr.Jingles 07.02.2005 08:46 |
bellydancer wrote: And may I say, and probably will attract criticism here but I don't really give a rats, the Bible is basically just a certain group of people's interpretation of God's rules and history. One must remember that the people of that age were quite superstitious and ritualistic. The Old Testament was their way of explaining certain events in the way they comprehended at the time. So, the point I'm trying to make is maybe we shouldn't be looking so much as to how to apply the majority of the Old Testament to our lives as we live in a different time. If one is looking for answers then maybe they should look at the New Testament and the simple messages of Christ's teachings which are still relavent today.I so totally agree with you on that one. I mean, it doesn't make much sense to me that The Bible says that the Hebrews were the people prefered and chosen by God, and then somewhere else it says that God loves everybody equally. Also why is war, death, and destruction justified during so many passages of The Bible, and then comes Jesus to preach non-violence and to turn the other cheek. I for once think that I can't rely on many things in the Old Testament, and I think the majority of it was indeed written by people who made up their own interpretations and not because God spoke to them. The New Testament makes a lot more sense to me, and it's perhaps why I consider myself a christian. |
Mr.Jingles 07.02.2005 08:47 |
Also going back to the topic of homosexuality as a sin. I seriously doubt it is and I can't see why could it possible be a sin. For my part I have nothing but respect for gay people who have decent love relationships in a serious form of commitment, just like any other straight couple. However, let's say homosexuality is a sin. Who are we to judge people who in any possible way are harming us, or anyone else? I mean, you could judge someone who is doing something bad to you or another person, but in this case it's God's only choice to judge. |
iGSM 07.02.2005 09:38 |
Well said. |
The Real Wizard 07.02.2005 13:09 |
<font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: The only gospel in which Jesus preaches Tolerance and acceptance (The Gospel Of Thomas) was left out of the Bible. I should say that says enough about fundamentalist views on these isues.Check chapter 6 of Luke for the "love your enemies" teachings (which my signature is based on). And you can't attribute the lacking of Thomas in the NT to fundamentalists... fundamentalism is a 20th Century (or perhaps late 19th Century) creation. To a great extent, Constantine was responsible for what was canonized and what was not, and that fourth Century mentality was certainly not really reminiscent of today's fundamentalist thinking (although sometimes I'll beg to differ). 1quen_fan wrote: Mary Magline wasn't a prostitue.That's just a rumor.Oh, how nice it is to know we have a scholar at Queenzone, especially one who can spell the name of the ancient person they have been studying for the last 20 years of their life. Spare us of your uneducated blasphemy, please. Mr.Jingles79 wrote: Judy prooved her point in a very good way, and even though I don't particularly share all her views, she did it in such a great way that she makes you listen and think.Agreed, it was an excellent post overall. But I can't help but reply to this part: MetzgerR wrote: I have always understood tolerance to mean that I do not force my views, opinions, and beliefs on those around me. In my day to day life, I rarely bring up my convictions, especially verbally. Unless I am asked, it is very out of character for me to state my convictions and beliefs in casual conversation. I have learned, over the years, to avoid bringing up my Christianity because invariably, I am attacked.That's the problem these days... far too many people aren't willing to speak openly about their political and/or religious beliefs, so they become accustomed to having little to no intelligent discussion on the subjects. Furthermore, if you notice that most people will attack you because of your faith convictions, shouldn't that tell you where the minds of people are heading in the 21st century? It's slowly moving away from the theistic style faith that was once comfortable, because with the help of science and thinking for oneself, more and more people are realizing that the old faith just isn't working anymore. To many people, traditional Christianity is starting to become a thought of the past, and the Bible is slowly starting to be seen a document of a time in history, not an eternal truth for all times. Christianity is slowly dying, except for in fundamentalism, which is in my eyes, that one last gasp (a huge last gasp, mind you!). In two or three generations, I forsee the protestant church (which consists mostly of people over the age of 60 - censuses can't lie) being dead - unless of course, there is a major reformation. Anyone interested in such an idea should read any material by Bishop John Shelby Spong. While you may not agree with everything he says, he is a brilliant man. Here are three of his books I've read: Why Christianity Must Change Or Die A New Christianity For A New World Liberating The Gospels (this one I recommend the most, as he presents much biblical evidence as to how NT writers used OT stories as platforms for their stories, rather than being historical events) Any ambitious (and mentally/emotionally ready) readers should check out anything written by Don Cupitt whom, in my eyes, is one of our time's greatest thinkers. A true genius of 21st Century philosophy, and where we should be going. |
The Real Wizard 07.02.2005 13:17 |
superfrodo wrote: You wanna hear something ultra-conservative? Well, there's this lady at my church whom I absolutely CANNOT stand. She's a total fundamentalist - I swear, the woman has two kids but she still acts like the freaking Virgin Mary. She only lets her kids listen to contemporary Christian music - no other music of any kind (except maybe classical). So one day I was over at the church helping set up for some fundraiser or something, and I was bored so I went over to the house and got a Queen CD to play while we were setting up. And the lady totally FLEW off the handle at me and told me that they weren't listening to my devil music. My dad's the pastor, and he bought the CD for me for Christ's sake. That bitch!I can relate to that! I'm a guitar teacher, and one of my ten-year-old students is in that exact lifestyle. He had never heard of The Beatles until I mentioned them, and so I gave him a Rubber Soul cd to listen to. His father told me to consult him in the future when giving his son music to listen to, because they are "heavily involved with the church and all that". I told him that I run a seccular classroom, and if I feel one of my students should hear a certain piece of music to help on his/her musical journey, then it is at my discretion what music it is. If you don't like it, then I suggest you find a Christian guitar instructor". I'm still teaching this kid, and I'll be seeing him tonight. |
1quen_fan 08.02.2005 16:47 |
Jasen I don't care if u r gay. I'm sure that u r a nice person.:) |
iron eagle 08.02.2005 19:49 |
i fully understand why jasen feels the way he does religion and their zealots are the epitimy of hypocrisy and ignorance and they always will be.. they violate their said book more times then anyone else...but hey its ok for them...... if someone wants to believe i am damned or a sinner because i am gay-- so be it i aint about to lose sleep over it-- because i know myself and i know how i live my life and how i treat others.. hell ray and i have been together more then most breeder marriages.. if society and religion wants to look at that negatively ... fuck em i dont need their approval..nor do i need their acceptance it took me years to get to this point though.. |
jasen101 08.02.2005 22:09 |
well said |