| Serry... 30.11.2004 15:26 |
Does anybody know any obvious reasons why Brian stated as a co-producer (with Mack) of Flash Gordon album? Why not 'Queen' as usually? I don't know why, but Brian's name appears often in some cases, when usually they uses 'Queen' name - I posted topic about 'Mother Love' authorship some weeks ago with the same question (Brian answered my question why it wasn't 'Queen' song again, but actually I'm not very happy with his reasons, 'cause A Winter's Tale is 'Queen' track, though it's written by Freddie). And another question is: how do you think are there master tapes of FG tracks without movie's dialogues and noises on it? It'd be nice to hear those FG tracks in 'clear' form, IMHO. |
| Pim Derks 30.11.2004 15:56 |
I think Brian was most involved with the soundtrack. He wrote the main theme and a lot of the other music. I think the rest of the band was a lot less involved then Brian. |
| Serry... 30.11.2004 16:10 |
Pim Derks wrote: I think Brian was most involved with the soundtrack. He wrote the main theme and a lot of the other music. I think the rest of the band was a lot less involved then Brian.Yes, it seems true, but I think he wrote less than Freddie tracks for it - most of his tracks are remixes of Flash's Theme :) |
| brENsKi 30.11.2004 17:06 |
that probably answers your own question for you...he wrote less - so had more time on the mixing desk it was an opportunity to produce.... |
| deleted user 30.11.2004 17:22 |
Well, Freddie basically only wrote one more. Brian, however, was responsible for the lion's share of the mixing (together with Mack) and the whole conception of the album (assembling and editing the different pieces etc...). The rest of the band was basically only really involved for two weeks of recording (Roger was busy with his solo album at the same time !), whilst Brian was left with all the work afterwards. That's why he insisted on the May-Mack-credit. The other members opposed to it in the beginning, but eventually Brian got his head through. And of course there must be masters without the film dialogue. The entire process of editing the music and mixing it with dialogue and incidental score was done after the actual event of recording the soundtrack music. |
| Awesome-O _4000 30.11.2004 21:36 |
Producing and songwriting is different, you know ;? |
| Serry... 01.12.2004 09:51 |
<marquee><font color = green>Brenski wrote: that probably answers your own question for you...he wrote less - so had more time on the mixing desk it was an opportunity to produce....I'm not sure, because then Fred and Brian had to be producers of Queen II album... |
| ogre t raylot 01.12.2004 10:09 |
From Brian May On the Record (1982) Was the Flash Gordon project time-consuming? Yes, and unfortunately we didn't have enough time. We were doing The Game and an American tour at the same time Flash was going on, so it was ridiculous. We put as much time as we could in. We would do a week here and a week there. I spent some time with the arranger and orchestra to try and get some coherence to it all. It was good experience, but next time I hope we have time to really pull the whole thing together as a unit. |
| deleted user 01.12.2004 11:41 |
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| brian_may_wannabe 01.12.2004 11:43 |
He wrote Flash, maybe. Aaah! |
| Sebastian 01.12.2004 12:53 |
There isn't any relation between who wrote most and who produced. Freddie reportedly spent a lot of time in the console during early days (in a 'One Vision' kind of way perhaps) but they all were producers in the matter that they were all involved in the decisions of their compositions. In the case of Flash the difference was that Brian ended up choosing what's on the album and what's not (as John confirmed in an interview in 1981). Still I find sometimes odd how he takes credit for those things though, I mean if you're in a band you should make sacrifices, but the way Headlong and I Want It All are now credited to him (and the Mother Love incident) aren't very ethical imo. But that's a different business. |
| Serry... 01.12.2004 15:02 |
Philipp Nothaft wrote:Read to Sebastian's reply - that's why I meant. Brian and Fred wrote most of tracks for QII, but co-producer is Queen - not Fred and Brian.Serry Funster wrote:? That seems a bit contradictory...<marquee><font color = green>Brenski wrote: that probably answers your own question for you...he wrote less - so had more time on the mixing desk it was an opportunity to produce....I'm not sure, because then Fred and Brian had to be producers of Queen II album... |
| Serry... 01.12.2004 15:08 |
Sebastian wrote: There isn't any relation between who wrote most and who produced. Freddie reportedly spent a lot of time in the console during early days (in a 'One Vision' kind of way perhaps) but they all were producers in the matter that they were all involved in the decisions of their compositions. In the case of Flash the difference was that Brian ended up choosing what's on the album and what's not (as John confirmed in an interview in 1981). Still I find sometimes odd how he takes credit for those things though, I mean if you're in a band you should make sacrifices, but the way Headlong and I Want It All are now credited to him (and the Mother Love incident) aren't very ethical imo. But that's a different business.I didn't know that IWIA and Headlong now credited to him... Hmm... |
| deleted user 01.12.2004 18:30 |
Serry Funster wrote:I understood very well, but the way these different points follow each other it looks odd, because Fred and Brian wrote more on QII, not less.Philipp Nothaft wrote:Read to Sebastian's reply - that's why I meant. Brian and Fred wrote most of tracks for QII, but co-producer is Queen - not Fred and Brian.Serry Funster wrote:? That seems a bit contradictory...<marquee><font color = green>Brenski wrote: that probably answers your own question for you...he wrote less - so had more time on the mixing desk it was an opportunity to produce....I'm not sure, because then Fred and Brian had to be producers of Queen II album... |
| Lester Burnham 01.12.2004 18:48 |
So, because Brian and Freddie wrote the bulk of Queen II, that means Freddie should be labelled as co-producer? Makes no sense. It's been explained several times before me, but Brian essentially had the final say of what went on the album; it wasn't what they'd ever done before, which is probably why it was never done since, but I guess Brian just wanted recognition for his work. Also Sebastian, where is 'Headlong' credited to Brian? |
| deleted user 01.12.2004 19:08 |
Sebastian wrote: There isn't any relation between who wrote most and who produced. Freddie reportedly spent a lot of time in the console during early days (in a 'One Vision' kind of way perhaps) but they all were producers in the matter that they were all involved in the decisions of their compositions. In the case of Flash the difference was that Brian ended up choosing what's on the album and what's not (as John confirmed in an interview in 1981). Still I find sometimes odd how he takes credit for those things though, I mean if you're in a band you should make sacrifices, but the way Headlong and I Want It All are now credited to him (and the Mother Love incident) aren't very ethical imo. But that's a different business.Sorry, but I think I'll have to play the Bri-apologist: Flash Gordon was obviously a case where one member was in charge of production more than any other. Note that "choosing" the tracks obviously included taking care of assembling, editing and mixing (esp. with all the dialogue and incidental music) the chosen material so it involves a lot more work, work that Brian and Mack got stuck with, because the others went on to do other things. That's what eventually led to the May-Mack-credit. Interpreting "choosing the track" as mere final decision-thing would be underrating Bri's contribution towards the end-result of the album. You can't compare the situation of Flash Gordon to the situation of a "normal" Queen album, where obviously everybody stays involved until the very end and where everyone contributes his share to the production (and it's not just Freddie, the One Vision "making of" may give a false impression here. It only shows tiny bits of a lengthy recording process and mainly focusses on the creative process of making the song, not so much on the final production of One Vision.) Here's a recent quote by Bri: "Actually it was always like this, even with Queen. If anybody worked the night through to arrange or to mix then it was me." Of course, this will sound to bigheaded to all those who follow the theory that Freddie did all the work (being the only capable musician etc...) whereas Brian isn't much more than a pompous fart who happened to play a few notes on Fred's albums, but personally, I don't doubt that Brian was very focussed and very involved, taking lots of responsibilities back in the Queen-days. Furthermore, I don't think these things have anything to do with ethics. If Brian decides that he should get a sole credit, he will have some good reasons (sounds a bit idealistic, but all in all Brian appears to be a decent person). Note that John and Roger - being registered as joint song-writers at EMI Publishing ! - could very well have opposed Brian's decision to change credits. IWIA and Headlong ARE Brian-songs after all (the second one was originally planned for BTTL) and given the fact that these most probably weren't so much based on group efforts as other songs on Miracle and Innuendo, I can very well imagine that Brian felt that he should get the deserved recognition for his "babies", which is apparently aimed at all those who buy the albums and look at the "Queen"-credits, wondering about these songs creative whereabouts. Note that these "Queen"-credits where born out of a situation where there would be regular quibbles about royalties. They didn't so much define joint creative efforts from all four band-members (though it certainly resulted in them becoming more collaborative), but were supposed provide the same amount of cash for everyone, regardless of the writers of an individual song. This problem doesn't exist nowadays and so - in his mind - Brian obviously decided to change the credits to his songs the way they always should've been anyway. |
| Sebastian 02.12.2004 03:16 |
In a way I share your opinion. My points are simple: - Fred & Brian did participate a lot on the production, but not more than John & Roger imo. - Imo One Vision was an exercise they took to steal focus and doesn't mean anything about the rest of sessions. Interestingly enough, Brian - who reportedly didn't play piano very often - conveniently played piano and synths in the videotaped sessions. And Freddie - who sometimes just did his bit and left - was now directing everybody's work. I doubt it was that way all the time. Perhaps sometimes, but perhaps it could also change e.g. John conducted and Rog added lyrics, etc. Depends on the song - Flash is indeed another story, BUT I feel Brian liked more to be acknowledged and recognised than the others. In which way? all those mentioned (the credits). Headlong is a Brian's song, just as much as Invisible Man is Roger's, Slightly Mad is Freddie's or My Life Has Been Saved is John's. But they didn't ask for a credit in there. Mother Love doesn't involve John & Roger but - as Brian recognised - Rain Must Fall doesn't involve him, hence it should be credited to Deacon/Taylor/Mercury, or Deacon/Mercury, or whatever, but not Queen, for the same extent. I THINK (rather than KNOW) Roger, John and Fred took it easy and didn't put a problem in sharing credits (for both songwriting and production). I feel as well that it's a little unethical for Brian to "accuse" Fred of making up the "lyric=writer" rule. If that was true then Brian wouldn't appear in Is This The World. I think the quote was too strong. But that's another issue. Again what I wanted to say is that imho Brian is more "selfish" in the royalty thing (note his "I was the one who spent the night arranging" comment). That doesn't change the fact that he gave his best to the band (and there isn't any doubt of that), perhaps more than the other three, neither it changes the fact that he's in fact a decent person imo. I just wanted to comment that, but neither I'm anti-Brian nor I'm trying to start an argument about that. PS: As reported by a visitor of my website, the Spanish CD of the musical credits May for both IWIA and Headlong as well as the GVHII DVD credits him for IWIA. |
| Serry... 02.12.2004 08:27 |
Brian has right to post his name under his songs, of course, but if you're said 'a' - say 'b' - so let open Roger, John and Fred's names to 'Queen' songs too. Why not? BTW as I know Freddie's name appears in FWBF and PISCTP only because John asked to do it, 'cause Fred helped him very much with this those tracks... Anyway, let's Brian do what he wanna do, I just want to hear not new TT mix, but some of FG tracks without movie's noises - it'd be interesting, IMO. |
| deleted user 02.12.2004 14:15 |