EddieVanHalen 18.10.2004 13:23 |
I was wondering if anyone and JSS in particular could tell me if the guitar solo in Back Chat on the hot space album was taken from the Back Chat BBC Sessions take? Because it sounds very similar apart from the backing track that you can hear play along during the guitar solo in the BBC Sessions version. Also the words that Freddie says right before the guitar solo starts are similar to those of the BBC session version. Hopefully JSS could tell us something more about this and maybe something about how the Hot Space album was recorded and how many songs were omitted from the album. |
FriedChicken 18.10.2004 14:50 |
There is no BBC version of Back Chat |
EddieVanHalen 18.10.2004 15:34 |
The Hot SPace demo's that leaked out last year I mean, they were called BBC Sessions on this board. |
Serry... 18.10.2004 15:45 |
Then they calls it incorrect, because last Queen BBC session was at 1977, I think. About Back Chat - it could be called as demo, but that's not totally demo - that's another version. It has full structure of song and recorded at all. When song was mixed they just choose the best of already recorded stuff and made song. So solo can be similar. Demos are tracks from the Miracle sessions - they contains different lyrics, tempos, or just rhytm-section (bass, drums and synth) and nothing more. Listen to the FM Box Set - there is a lot of tracks musically totally similar to album versions, but vocal parts are different, so everything is possible and some parts from demos can be heard on their albums. |
EddieVanHalen 18.10.2004 15:54 |
Serry Funster wrote: Then they calls it incorrect, because last Queen BBC session was at 1977, I think. About Back Chat - it could be called as demo, but that's not totally demo - that's another version. It has full structure of song and recorded at all. When song was mixed they just choose the best of already recorded stuff and made song. So solo can be similar. Demos are tracks from the Miracle sessions - they contains different lyrics, tempos, or just rhytm-section (bass, drums and synth) and nothing more. Listen to the FM Box Set - there is a lot of tracks musically totally similar to album versions, but vocal parts are different, so everything is possible and some parts from demos can be heard on their albums.Owke I know what you mean, but what I am really interested in is if someone could actually confirm that the guitar solo used on the album is the one from the alternative take. |
FriedChicken 18.10.2004 16:44 |
The Hot Space BBC session is just a Queenzone insiders joke. Someone made it up a few years ago, and it's still a favourite :) |
Penetration_Guru 18.10.2004 17:35 |
I'm claiming the credit for that one. |
EddieVanHalen 18.10.2004 18:02 |
Ok but still no one that has answered my questions so far. JSS where are youuuuuuuu :-). |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 11:26 |
Bump |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 11:31 |
EddieVanHalen: Thanks for the faith - I will answer to the best of my ability. As to the backwards guitar solo - I THINK you are correct - but better ask Seb - as he knows more about that than I do. However, (in the spirit of genuine friendship - and NOT sarcasm) now that Greg Brooks has joined the 'zone - he would be a much better source than I, and I too would be interested in his reply. As to what "I" know about "Hot Space" - try this list below... 1982: Hot Space Staying Power Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 US 12" Promo Extended Remix Elektra 0-67854 Demo Version: 27.1.1982 Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Dancer Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Lammey Mix ISDN: Download Backchat Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 7" Edit Remix EMI 5325 12" Extended Remix EMI 12 EMI 5325 US 12” Promo Remix Demo Version Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Promotional Video Unreleased: Home Video Original Demo: Woolly Hat Unreleased: 2000 IQFC Convention Body Language Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 1991 Susan Rogers Remix Hot Space: US 1991 Hollywood HR-61038-2 Promotional Video Sexy Shorts: VHS PMI CMV 1088 Action This Day Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Demo Version Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Buczko Night Mix ISDN: Download Put Out The Fire Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Starlicks Video Edit Starlicks Video Life Is Real Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Demo Version: 7.2.1982 Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Calling All Girls Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Promotional Video Unreleased: Home Video Las Palabras De Amor Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 10" Acetate Mix 2 Remix Version Unreleased: Home Acetate Demo Version Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Top Of The Pops BBC TV Video Greatest Flix III Cool Cat Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 David Bowie Acetate Ultimate Collection: Royalty Music RMCD 001 Demo Version Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Sulley ’99 Remix ISDN: Download Under Pressure Album Version Hot Space: EMI CDP 7 46215 2 Greatest Hits II Edit Greatest Hits II: Parlophone CDP 79 7971 2 Classic Queen Edit Hollywood HR-61311-2 Karaoke Instrumental Japan Toshiba EMI TOLW - 3249.50 KEWB FM US Radio Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc 1999 Rah Mix Album Greatest Hits III 1999 Rah Mix Video Greatest Flix III 1999 Rah Mix Radio Edit CD QUEENS 28 1999 Mike Spencer Mix CD QUEENS 28 1999 Knebworth “Live” Mix CD QUEENS 28 1999 12” Promo Club 2000 Mix Original Demo: Feel Like 5:00 Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Robertson Experimental Sonix Mix ISDN: Download Promotional Video Greatest Flix I & II: Pioneer PLMPD 01171 Soul Brother Album Version UK 3" CDS QUECD 9 (Under Pressure) US CDS Swapped Stereo Intro Heaven For Everyone Whipping Boy Unreleased: Brian May: Lullabies With A Difference Recorded 1982/ Released 1998 Recorded 1982 during Queen’s Hot Space sessions. Released 1998 Lullabies With A Difference CD My Boy Album Version Ofcourse the videos are now commercially available as part of the Video - GHII, and I have also omited demo tracks which I believe began life as "Hot Space" sessions - but ended up on other albums like "Made In Heaven" or whatever. I have only used fan remixes "I" thought meritworthy (my choice!). However, I again stress, that for a more accurate and official version - try asking Greg. PS: Some have argued that "Soul Brother" is NOT part of the "Hot Space" ouvre. I include it here for two reasons - first) it is the B-side to "Under Pressure" - second) It includes the lyric "under pressure" in the chorus. Now as "Soul Brother" was supposed to be a "tribute&q |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 11:54 |
Thank you very much JSS, I always enjoy reading your very informative posts. BTW, don't you all agree that topics like this one are far much better than the stupid ones about freddie being still alive or roger and brian being gay? PS: are you sure that GB is the real Greg Brooks? |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 11:59 |
EddieVanHalen: Glad to help out when I can. Obviously someone, somewhere, will take the time to complain - but in the abscence of any official info - it's the best I (you/we) have. As for Greg: Yes, he is for real. Pity he didn't join in on this thread. |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 12:12 |
Thanks JSS, I have one little question about your post, what do you mean by "backwards guitarsolo"? Obviously I know what you mean by the word backwords, but what do you mean by it in this context? |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 12:19 |
EddieVanH: I meant the guitar solo in Back Chat. From memory, I thought this was (partially) recorded backwards - but I would need to consult the CD to make sure. To disinformation intended! ;-) |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 12:26 |
Very nice list, indeed, John. Although I seem to recall that 'Back Chat's original working title was 'Wooly Hat', not 'Body Language'. I might be wrong, though. I particularly enjoy reading working titles of original songs - I get a big kick out of them, usually because they're either nonsensical or so much better than the eventual title! Anywho, keep the information coming, John - contrary to Greg's barbs, there are still people here who appreciate you. Myself being one of them. EDIT: and I can't help but wonder as to the 'Whipping Boy' unreleased thing there. What does that mean? And I could've sworn that an unreleased version of 'There Must Be More To Life Than This' was recorded for Hot Space, though that's more of a rumor than anything. Either way, it's nice to finally have an intelligent conversation again on this messageboard! |
juls 19.10.2004 12:30 |
The beginning of the solo is faded in, I guess it is done with the volume knob, not backwards. I havent listened to the song for a while, but I think it is just faded in per volume pedal or knob. |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 13:00 |
Lester: "...I seem to recall that 'Back Chat's original working title was 'Wooly Hat', not 'Body Language'. Yes, that is correct. It was a "cut and paste edit" mistake, but on my original notes - they too state that "Backchat" was "Wooly Hat". I have edited the above post accordingly. Lester: "...an unreleased version of 'There Must Be More To Life Than This' was recorded for "Hot Space", though that's more of a rumor than anything". I was lead to believe that "There Must Be More To Life Than This" (especially the MJ/Freddie duet) was recorded around about the time of "The Works". Certainly, it would have been recorded between "Hot Space" and "The Works", so either is possible. Without access to the original sessions, I have this track in my "Works" listings - simply because it was supposed to be replaced at the last minute by "Is This The World We Created?". Now granted, this does not exclude "There Must Be More..." as an earlier recording, but as it was replaced by another "Works" track, that is where I keep it. PS: Also remember it eventually appeared on Freddie's solo album. I don't think Freddie would have invested in a song as old as "Hot Space" - do you? (Serious question!) |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 13:21 |
It's very likely, though, in relation to Freddie reusing such an old song. To paraphrase him, he once said that if he has belief in a song, he'll keep at it until he's pleased with it - so maybe the band tried to record the song, but it wasn't to his satisfaction. Keep in mind, too, that it could've possibly been recorded in 1982, and the sessions started for his solo album the next year. What's even more likely is that it was originally written for Hot Space, but not recorded - much like Sheer Heart Attack in 1974 but kept off an album until 1977. Of course, I'm not saying it exists, because I haven't heard it, but maybe the germ of an idea started during the Hot Space sessions and was worked more fully for The Works. |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 13:31 |
Lester: Very possible on all accounts - but until that "germ" is confirmed - I prefer "The Works" theory. (Simply because I can "kind" of place/date the Michael Jackson/ Freddie Mercury version). But I agree that the track could have been a germ of an idea before this, and that it could have been recorded pre/early "Works". However, when I listen to the FM/MJ duet (Sorry - am I allowed to say that?) - it seems that they are both working through the track, which kind of negates the earlier germ idea - or does it? (Another serious question!) |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 13:48 |
That's sort of what I think, too, as I have heard the MJ/FM duet (taboo!!), and while the melody and first verse appears to have been written, there doesn't seem to be very much else. However, that's only what I'd heard, but with the assistance of logical discussion, it helps discredit rumor from fact. Now, what're your thoughts on The Game sessions! :) |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 14:09 |
How about Lullabies with a difference, what is that? Ive never heard about that before, and in your list it says it was released in 98'? |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 14:12 |
Lester Burnham wrote: That's sort of what I think, too, as I have heard the MJ/FM duet (taboo!!), and while the melody and first verse appears to have been written, there doesn't seem to be very much else. However, that's only what I'd heard, but with the assistance of logical discussion, it helps discredit rumor from fact. Now, what're your thoughts on The Game sessions! :)What I think is that the freddie vs Michael version was recorded before Queen or Freddie solo recorded There must be more to life, because on the freddie vs michael demo, they are just fooling around to see what works best, and although they already seem to have the structure of the song they don't have the lyrics finished. |
Adam Baboolal 19.10.2004 14:20 |
Absolutely. I too have heard that idea of TMBMTLTT being replaced with ITTWWC. Does anyone remember that fan club blurb where they said John had been working on a remix of the Queen version of the track? Peace, Adam. |
Lisser 19.10.2004 15:24 |
I love reading threads like this...please...MORE MORE!! thank you JSS, Lester, Adam, and everyone else that posts valuable info about the music. :) |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 15:35 |
Quite amazing to learn that there were minidiscs in 1981/1982 indeed. |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 15:38 |
Deacon Fan... Revisited: "Quite amazing to learn that there were minidiscs in 1981/1982 indeed" Try visiting this link: link "Mini disc was not invented pre 1990. Therefore an entry like - "Highlander TV Series Intro Version Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc" - does NOT refer to the ORIGINAL master recording, but a recording which exists in MY personal collection. Therefore, "Silver Salmon" could also be correctly (personally) catalogued as "Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc". However, some comprehensive lists that are repeatedly posted (here and on other sites) are actually plagerised from my own, including the senseless, out-of-context references to minidisc technology. I actually I enjoy the confusion this creates - because it identifies those who are willing to pass of my work as their own". Hope this satisfies your curiosity. |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 15:38 |
I believe John addressed that in another thread, where it was questioned by someone, and he said that it was transferred to Minidisc in an attempt to pull one over on plagiarists who would copy the information to their webspace and try to pass it off as their own. EDIT: seems that Mr. Stuart has beaten me to the punch. Curse you! |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 15:47 |
Lester: I can't understand it. We began this topic as a serious question and answer session between ourselves and EddieVanHalen. It has been polite. It has been informative. It has benefited all who took part. (Myself included). So please tell me why there are still those who would wish to scupper this dialogue? Do you think it is a deliberate ploy to "divide and conquer"? Do you think the trivialisation is supposed to destroy my credability in some way? In sum - do you think Queen Productions are trying to prevent fans from discussing anything other than the musical? Ofcourse I jest, but I wonder, what are the real points of such mail - other than to make me look like a tw*t? |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 15:51 |
I'm under the assumption that it's a conspiracy theory against baked ham. Then again, I haven't had lunch yet, so I would be inclined to think that. Anyway, there will always be people out to discredit other peoples' information, and there will always be people to nitpick and scrutinize other peoples' words. Those people are generally interested not in creating intelligent conversation, but in making other people appear to be fools. You can't please everyone, unfortunately. |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 15:51 |
Yes indeed. I'm sure John is the only collector with a minidisc recorder. |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 16:06 |
John, forgive me for asking again, but what is 'Whipping Boy' in your original post about the Hot Space sessions? And for EddieVanHalen (I think) who asked about Lullabies With A Difference, it was a tribute album culled together by (I believe) Joan Armatrading in 1998, with Brian contributing 'My Boy', which apparently was recorded in 1982. |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 16:40 |
"John, forgive me for asking again, but what is 'Whipping Boy'..." As far as I know an unreleased instrumental which may (or may not have been) the basis for below. "Lullabies With A Difference: a tribute album culled together by (I believe) Joan Armatrading in 1998, with Brian contributing 'My Boy', which apparently was recorded in 1982". Correct - except "My Boy" began life from the "Hot Space" sessions as a Queen track. (This may mean a Brian solo submitted as a Queen track). Personally, I am conviced they are the same, and that very little was done to create a "release" version. But now that Brian is so available, you can always ask him! (A serious point - he always seem to reject my questions!). Deacon Fan... Revisited (or Jeffrey, Geoffry, Guitar Hero or whatever) rather than write from envy, make me a serious cash offer now, and I will sell you my entire collection. All I ask is that you pay - what I paid. If you want it - you can have it. Lock, stock and two smoking barrels. You can then either denote the bits to the Queenzone hub, Wullie Nelson or use as ashtrays for motorcycles. That is what you want is it? Rather than perpetually criticse, why not open your wallet instead of your mouth? If you want it - give me call. |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 16:42 |
Amazing! Just listening to 'My Boy' now, and it would've been an ideal track to close Hot Space. Shame about that loss. |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 16:45 |
Thanks for your answers so far. But JSS what do you think about my comment that the Freddie vs Michael version of There must be more to life was recorded before the Queen and Freddie solo versions? The version of There must be more to life that we all know from Freddie solo sounds like it was created somewhere in between The Works and A Kind Of Magic.So If a Queen version exists and it was recorded during The Works then it should sound really different from the one that Freddie did solo at least that's what I think. This stuff is so interesting to talk about, and to debate about. Please do keep your comments coming :-) |
Lester Burnham 19.10.2004 16:53 |
EddieVanHalen wrote: Thanks for your answers so far. But JSS what do you think about my comment that the Freddie vs Michael version of There must be more to life was recorded before the Queen and Freddie solo versions? The version of There must be more to life that we all know from Freddie solo sounds like it was created somewhere in between The Works and A Kind Of Magic.So If a Queen version exists and it was recorded during The Works then it should sound really different from the one that Freddie did solo at least that's what I think. This stuff is so interesting to talk about, and to debate about. Please do keep your comments coming :-)The production qualities between The Works and Mr. Bad Guy are minimal - no surprise, as they were both co-produced with Mack, so I think Freddie was trying to get a Queen sound without actually using Queen. On that note, I think you could easily remove any Freddie track on The Works and replace it with There Must Be More To Life Than This. However, if the band got their hands on it, it would undeniably have that traditional Queen sheen on it, which is what is so fascinating to me. And is it just me, or does It's A Hard Life sound remotely similiar to Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow? |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 17:01 |
EddieVH: "what do you think about my comment that the Freddie vs Michael version... was recorded before the Queen and Freddie solo versions?" I would tend to agree with you based on the fact that the MJ/FM version sounds like it is being "born" as we listen. It certainly is not the full blown Freddie (or for that matter Queen versions - which are supposed to be pretty identical. I know Seb may argue a differing view if he had the tapes, but for all extents and purposes they are basically the same). So where does that leave us Eddie? I supose you could say that we are all "correct" because the song went through a number of changes. The "Germ" of the idea begins as you suggest. The Queen version is "properly" recorded and mixed at a studio (perhaps the works sessions). This proper version is dropped at the last minute, so Freddie returns to re-work yet again on the track (not the MJ demos - but a reworking of the Queen thing) during his solo spell. I agree that it is fascinating - but that is about the best I can do, and between us, I do not think that we would be that far from the truth. |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 17:45 |
John S Stuart wrote: Deacon Fan... Revisited (or Jeffrey, Geoffry, Guitar Hero or whatever) rather than write from envy, make me a serious cash offer now, and I will sell you my entire collection. All I ask is that you pay - what I paid. If you want it - you can have it. Lock, stock and two smoking barrels. You can then either denote the bits to the Queenzone hub, Wullie Nelson or use as ashtrays for motorcycles. That is what you want is it? Rather than perpetually criticse, why not open your wallet instead of your mouth? If you want it - give me call.For the record I've never been Geoffry or Guitar Hero. Your offer is great, but I'm afraid I'm just a simple man and whatever price that may be would be way beyond my means. What a shame that the fans who would most enjoy such recordings are denied the opportunity for financial reasons. Perhaps all of the real fans at Queenzone could chip in and pay you your price for letting us poor souls hear your precious tapes and minidiscs. Exactly how much would you charge to become a decent, kind, sharing person? Maybe Richard can organize a fund to buy these recordings from one greedy individual for the good of all the rest of us? But you did accidently bring up a good point. What fun are you having sitting there alone (excuse me, with the chosen few) with such recordings? You can't engage in too much interesting chat with fans about things they aren't allowed to hear. That's why I question your motives for hanging around here. If you enjoy spouting your detailed knowledge so much, make a website with all the info.. just simple text is all that's necessary. Maybe one of your ass-kissing followers will offer to compile this info for ya. Oh, and incidently.. if I did have the means, the first thing I'd do personally is put it all on CD for myself, and send the originals off to Queen Productions with the stipulation that I'd be sharing them with anyone interested, at fairly decent quality in exchange. |
Penetration_Guru 19.10.2004 18:02 |
Er...if QP weren't willing to buy (or find) this material, why should someone that *chose* to do so, for their own benefit (and I assume with no thought that one day there may be either a market for such material, or people who may expect to be given copies for free) and personal pleasure then be obligated to hand that over to QP? Especially if (allegedly) previous material loaned to QP had mysteriously leaked out while in their possession? Damn...I was trying to stay out of all this until it all calmed down. |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 18:07 |
Here's a wonderful example of how some collectors reward fellow fans while getting to keep their original tapes: link (9.80 MB, 128 kbps, 10:42) I edited this together from a rather long (I wanna say 40 minutes?) reel which was posted in a newsgroup, of Stevie Nicks, Lindsay Buckingham and crew beginning work on her song 'Gypsy' for Fleetwood Mac. It's really fascinating to hear these demo sessions, how different instruments and tempos were tried. Anyway, I edited this just to show what one might expect from collectors... I have the full length session on disc somewhere, as well as a session for 'Rhiannon'. I believe the original files were 192 kbps, this is 128 cuz I can only fit 10 MB on my webspace and I added the unedited finished version from their boxed set at the end. Neat stuff! |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 18:12 |
So fucking what if it 'leaked'? Isn't the idea to get it to the fans who want to hear it? That's my point :) Someone who feels ripped off that something leaked is exactly what I said.. greedy, in it only for the money. |
EddieVanHalen 19.10.2004 18:13 |
Thanks Thanks Thanks for all of your answers. I also was listening to 'It's late' this evening (sorry totally other subject), and I noticed that it actually shows remarkable resemblance to Hammer To Fall. The chord structure is very similar, but the beat and rhytm is different. Could it be that Hammer To Fall is a reworked version of It's late , or is in someway inspired on it's late? Maybe I'm just daft and maybe it doesn't make any sense at all to you guys. But it was just a thought I had. I seem to think alot about songs and trying to find out how they were created. |
juls 19.10.2004 19:35 |
Hammer to fall and It's late? well.... i don't think so. The chord progression is typical for Brian, look at Put out the fire, Dancer, All dead, Keep yourself alive, She makes me, Brighton rock, Tie your mother down, White Man, etc. These songs are all built in a quite similar way, but I don't think they base on each other. That's the way guitarists are writing songs. They love to do it with As and Ds. Because it falls in the hand. |
Bohardy 19.10.2004 20:05 |
Well, to answer the original question about the Backchat solo, you certainly don't need to be Greg Brooks nor John S Stuart. All you need is to have a half-decent pair of ears. For a start, there's definitely no backwards guitar in it all. I think you must be confusing this with Flick Of The Wrist, John. And most importantly, it's obvious that the majority of the solo on the finished version is lifted from the 'demo' version of Backchat. The clear difference is the 10 second part on the demo between 2:30 and 2:40 (2:18 to 2:28 on the finished version) which was replaced by a later (I'd imagine) guitar take from Bri. This isn't really surprising at all, as the majority of the common Hot Space demos are about 75% the same as the finished versions. Only a small amount of tidying up was done to these demo versions before they became the final product we know today. In the case of Backchat, I'd imagine Bri had a few goes at the solo, and the take we hear on the demo was regarded as being the best attempt. When it came around to completely finishing off the masters, Bri (or someone) decided the middle bit of the solo needed improving a bit, and so Mr May got his guitar out again and did his thang. |
John S Stuart 19.10.2004 21:55 |
DeaconfanRevisited... "Exactly how much would you charge to become a decent, kind, sharing person? Maybe Richard can organize a fund to buy these recordings from one greedy individual for the good of all the rest of us?" You have NO idea what I have shared so far with the Queen community. I can guarantee - that some of the stuff in your collection has (metaphorically) my fingerprints all over it, so if it was NOT for me - your collection would be much the poorer. So please don't ask for any more freebies. Also: I said, I would give the stuff to you - for what I paid for it. No profit margin. That is a good deal. If a collector buys a Picasso or a Rembrandt, (or even a Disney or Simpson's cell) does that make them a selfish greedy individual? So lets see - I purchase a Queen item (say an acetate) so I can hear it. (And I am not the only one in this 'zone who does so), So I can enjoy it. Lets say that cost me around £2-300. I deny no-one the same priviledge - if they repay me my outlying costs. I will certainly NOT pass it on for free, but I have in the past. I bet you own copies of the "De Lane Lea demos". I bet you have copies of "Ibex". So you have NO idea what you are talking about here. Big-mouthed, opinionated "biggest dick on Queenzone" - I won't argue - you certainly have me pegged, but "charge(ing) to become a decent, kind, sharing person... in it only for the money." I think not. |
Saint Jiub 19.10.2004 22:44 |
With that so-called logic, anyone who pays good money for a rare painting should donate it to a museum and write it off as a tax loss. |
Saint Jiub 19.10.2004 22:47 |
Oops my post directed at $1245.89 was too late ( I forgot to refresh the page) |
Penis - Vagina 19.10.2004 23:09 |
John: I'll try to keep this short. You've basically just affirmed what I said.. you're hung up on the money aspect. Maybe you feel ripped off because you don't enjoy the stuff as much anymore or something, whatever. I do understand where you're coming from. You've paid a lot for something and don't want to give it away free. But my position is that even giving out high quality MP3s would not degrade the value *that* much. You'd still have your originals plus the special feeling of having shared and made fans happy. And yes, I also get the point that you already have shared a lot. But if you've got stuff that's otherwise never coming out, what's the fun of dying with it? I do it, in much a smaller capacity with the karaokes. But that's all I'm capable of. Since they're released in one country only and a bit pricey for some folks, I make them available to all. Not exactly legal on my part, but that's another issue. Even Barb (YV) has told me these are acceptable for the hub.. though I've never joined... So to answer that part, no.. I have probably heard a lot less of your stuff than you think. Only the one Ibex track, only the one officially used De Lane track.. I have no interest at all in live stuff either. I barely have interest in the official live stuff, and generally only with video attached. Okay, I didn't keep it short, but there you have it. |
Adam Baboolal 20.10.2004 00:04 |
Btw DF, thanks for that "Creating Gypsy mp3." That's really cool. How did that get shared? Is there a place where I can read the story on it? I like the idea of passing on low-quality copies of this unreleased material in snippet form. Whoever did that with the Gypsy track is really cool. I'm not a fan, but this is interesting stuff. Peace, Adam. |
Saint Jiub 20.10.2004 00:08 |
"I do understand where you're coming from. You've paid a lot for something and don't want to give it away free. But my position is that even giving out high quality MP3s would not degrade the value *that* much." Any evidence to back up this statement? |
Penis - Vagina 20.10.2004 01:22 |
Bullwinkle: I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that monetary value seems to be the most important issue here. Yes, I can see what's coming.. "Well if it gets out there for free, it loses value in the eyes of other collectors". Probably true, so it's a question of either selling the stuff at the price paid, or keeping them to himself and hardly anyone else hearing them? I guess in that case I'd be suggesting that John break that cycle, let the fans hear the stuff, and keep the originals himself, happy that he had them for however long at a certain value, and still has the originals which must surely still be worth more than lossy MP3s. Adam: I think those were shared in an 80s newsgroup, and probably a bootleg group also. Hopefully you're familiar with newsgroups so I don't have to explain that :) And I edited that together myself from what was posted, except for the full song at the end. |
Sebastian 20.10.2004 08:44 |
There's so muchinteresting stuff in this thread, so I don't know if I remember everything I was going to say: ------- Soul Brother: Theoretically, there's no "rule" about the lyrics. Which Queen songs are named "God bless my soul", "the man with the most", "how does he do it", "he's got a style", "he's so heavy", "he's a trip"... The whole "tribute to earlier songs" thing could have been only for the second verse; in that case the Under Pressure lines don't count since they're in the bridge. It's possible that Fred just put them there and one year (or a couple of months) later they happened to write a song with that title. Not even that title since David was the one who suggested it (and he probably didn't know about Soul Brother). Taking that in account, the piano part sounds like a Bosendorfer (ie Musicland Studios); but we're screwed since there were parts of Hot Space recorded there, and the entire Game album. In fact, theoretically, it could have even been for Flash (and recorded at Townhouse Studio 1 or 3, which have Bosendorfers, the other one has a Steinway). Musically, it has compositional devices more in the Game side of Freddie's songwriting, but still it doesn't prove anything. --------- Back Chat: Yes, no backwards. The solo is different, so I suppose Brian did several takes and improved gradually in each one of them; after the demo he continued improving it. ---------- There Must Be More To Life Than This: According to FM's box-set, the piano part was recorded in May 25th 1984, which is of course closer to Works than HS. BUT, since there's the collaboration with Michel, here's a theory: it was a song they had planned to do together, but at the end Fred decided to include it in his solo album. That would mean the piano take from Michael's version is different (which would make sense, since I think it's "live"), and that could be easily before. That leads to the question: when did they record together (and where)? As far as I know, they started to go different ways after Thriller (1982) because Jacko was now so famous. So their sessions would be from the HS era. State Of Shock was released in 1984 (with Mick Jagger instead of Fred) in the Victory album (according to FM in a Munich interview in 1984, Victory, the song, was written by Michael and himself), but remember the Victory album was more a posthumous one, not in the matter that someone was dead, but in the matter that Jacksons Five didn't actually exist anymore (even though they later on released a couple of things without Michael). I think Victory was their first album in five years or so; then State could be from anytime between 1978/1979 and 1984. Makes sense again. Fred said he didn't like to use "rejects" in albums, he wanted to write new material. But There must Be more to Life could be the exception of the rule (if so, thank God it was, since it's a very nice song). I do find it, compositionally speaking, a little more Works-esque/MrBadGuy-esque, than from early 80s, but still that's a "clue", not an "evidence". |
John S Stuart 20.10.2004 10:12 |
Deaconfan... This has absolutely nothing to do with money. Everyone collects something. Some collect stamps. Others collect rare cigars, fine malts, or rare wines. This has nothing to do with finaces - that is just what collectors do. I collect Queen. I have done so for over 30 years. All of these collectors have "prized" possessions. It may be a cigar owned by Churchill, or a genuine bottle of Napoleon brandy - or whatever. My point is that I would never dream of saying to someone "give me a drag of your cigar" or "hey, give me a glass of that fine wine". It would not be done. Now, if that collector dies without ever opening that wine bottle, that is his perogative. Just because you don't have it - does not give you the right to dictate his use. As for my own "prized possessions" - I wrote a few features for "Record Collector" magazine (surprise, surprise, because I collected records - music that is not documents!). It was other collectors who then asked me "tell me about this?", or "do you really have that?". I could have been rude and said "P*ss-off", but I honestly answered their queeries the best I could, and in some cases swapped their "prizes" for mine. The rest is reputation. Now, I am truely sorry if I offend your sensitivities, but that is the position I am in. I don't mind describing things, or helping fans out, but I am not going "pass the bottle around" simply because a few in here complain otherwise. And that, as far as I can see, should be the topic closed. |
EddieVanHalen 20.10.2004 11:01 |
Thanks to all for your information about Hot Space. And JSS I can really understand why you do not want to share your collection with the rest of the world. Sometimes people just have to accept that they can't have everything they want in life. JSS has worked hard to put his collection together, so why should he share it for free with the entire world? Just be thankfull for what you get and don't offend people if they have something that you don't have. And I really wish we could have more topics like this one about hot space or other albums or songs. |
Penis - Vagina 20.10.2004 12:12 |
Sounds like a good plan. No more sharing from me either. Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on. |
Penis - Vagina 20.10.2004 12:16 |
Sounds like a good plan. No more sharing from me either. Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on. |
crowley 20.10.2004 14:28 |
As for the "Hot Space" demos I noticed that "Back Chat" and "Staying Power" and "Under Pressure" are very different from the album versions. Back Chat - a little bit extended, altered lyrics, more Freddie's improvisation Staying Power - the freakin' trumpet is out :) Brian's guitar instead Under Pressure - the first version entitled "Feel Like" totally different - another melody and lyrics, Bowie on the piano (not singing), the second (jam session) version more "rocky", much cooler than the original Cool Cat - extra Bowie vocals (rap) So they REALLY DIFFER :) |
Adam Baboolal 20.10.2004 14:42 |
How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please. Peace, Adam. |
Lester Burnham 20.10.2004 14:48 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please. Peace, Adam.I think it's fairly self-explanatory. The point is that he doesn't go around to other collectors begging for a share in their collections for free. |
John S Stuart 20.10.2004 15:09 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: "How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please". Adam please don't insult your own intelligence. I think the point is self-evident. Let's not try and complicate things beyond measure. As Lester pointed out: I think it's fairly self-explanatory. The point is that he doesn't go around to other collectors begging for a share in their collections for free. |
John S Stuart 20.10.2004 15:12 |
What has happened to this thread - it has all gone hay-wire! My last mail was lost in page 2! |
Penetration_Guru 20.10.2004 16:35 |
A fan mix of a song. An alternate version of a song attempted by the band. I know which I'd rather miss out on.... |