| deleted user 28.09.2004 10:57 |
VOTE IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION :) |
| KillerQueen840 28.09.2004 14:47 |
Well when I can vote..but even if I could vote I wouldn't be able to decide because it's hard when your not crazy about either of them. |
| deleted user 28.09.2004 14:49 |
NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER!NADER! NADER! |
| SergeantPepperDG 28.09.2004 16:54 |
Well, we know Nader most likely won't win, so all he's gonna do is take away votes from Kerry, so there will be most people voting for Bush. |
| Music Man 28.09.2004 20:09 |
Yeah, even if I could vote, I wouldn't. |
| joeyjojo 28.09.2004 21:18 |
I'm between Nader and Kerry at this point, but in the end, voting is what really counts. Some day, we might have a country here in the US where we can actually get a 50% voter turnout ;o) |
| deleted user 28.09.2004 21:31 |
if enough people vote for nader, that would be enough to split the difference. |
| MetzgerR 28.09.2004 21:41 |
It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses: (1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such. (2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry. To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job... I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at... I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated. Ja ne! |
| Yogurt 28.09.2004 22:22 |
I'm only 16. I'm not very political, but I got my parents view on it. they want to vote for bush. when im old enough to vote, i probably wont. |
| joeyjojo 28.09.2004 22:23 |
It's worth pointing out that voter apathy favours the two party system here in the US. The two parties know that. If you can't decide to vote for a dem or rep, vote for someone else. The very act of giving a vote to a 3rd party helps the slow trend towards bringing them into the mix and, hopefully, eventually reforming the voting system we have in this country. |
| Mr.Jingles 28.09.2004 22:24 |
MetzgerR wrote: It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses: (1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such.Making political choices based on religion is the base of fundamentalism. The worst part is that people like that are the first ones to point fingers at all Muslims by calling them "Religious Wackos" |
| The Real Wizard 29.09.2004 01:49 |
MetzgerR wrote: It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses: (1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such. (2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry. To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job... I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at... I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated. Ja ne!This post upsets me very much. Just stay strong! You will find like-minded people throughout your life, so you'll break free from it all when you're able. You've got me and plenty of others in your corner. :) 100% agree with Jingles. Religious fundamentalism and politics unfortunately get tangled far too often, to say the very least. And I don't know where to begin when someone says Islam is a religion of hate, and that they're all wackos.... gah! |
| Bob The Shrek 29.09.2004 03:48 |
I am glad I am not American and have to vote in the next election. You have Kerry & Nader, who are a pair of tits, and then you have Bush. I am sure you are ahead of me already...... ;-) |
| Under Pressure 29.09.2004 04:15 |
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush! Riding alone is riding with Hitler! And the like. |
| Penis - Vagina 29.09.2004 04:35 |
Please remember that aside from the Presidential election, people need to vote for their local officials who really do make a difference and where every vote does count right down to neighborhoods in some cases. I think far too many people only think of Presidential votes in these elections, and disgusted by their choices, they decide to not even vote, completely forgetting that there are so many important LOCAL offices and issues to vote on. And you have to do it at the same time, so pick the lesser of two (or three) Presidential evils if necessary but please do not dismiss this opportunity to make your vote count locally. |
| deleted user 29.09.2004 05:42 |
Bob The Shrek wrote: I am glad I am not American and have to vote in the next election. You have Kerry & Nader, who are a pair of tits, and then you have Bush. I am sure you are ahead of me already...... ;-)ha! that made me laugh :-P *ahem* yea.... |
| Mr.Jingles 29.09.2004 08:39 |
Sir GH<br><font size=1>ah yeah</font> wrote:From what I've heard from Muslims who are completely against terrorism, the Quaran doesn't preach revenge or justifies the death of innocents. If so, then it's not too different from christianity.MetzgerR wrote: It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses: (1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such. (2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry. To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job... I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at... I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated. Ja ne!This post upsets me very much. Just stay strong! You will find like-minded people throughout your life, so you'll break free from it all when you're able. You've got me and plenty of others in your corner. :) 100% agree with Jingles. Religious fundamentalism and politics unfortunately get tangled far too often, to say the very least. And I don't know where to begin when someone says Islam is a religion of hate, and that they're all wackos.... gah! What you need to do MetzgerR the next time your parents come up with the issue of supporting Bush and his actions because he's more of a "christian" than Kerry, is remind them that Jesus would have never justified revenge, violence or hatred. Tell them to read the New Testament once again because as far as I'm concerned Jesus always stood for forgiveness, tolerance, along with love and respect even towards the people who seem to hate you the most. You're right Bob, many people think that Islam is a religion of hate (especially those who have no clue whatsoever about what Islam stands for). But guess what?... Muslims in the middle east also think that christianity is also a religion of hate. |
| deleted user 29.09.2004 10:17 |
whirled <font color=#6B8E23>peas</font> wrote: Please remember that aside from the Presidential election, people need to vote for their local officials who really do make a difference and where every vote does count right down to neighborhoods in some cases. I think far too many people only think of Presidential votes in these elections, and disgusted by their choices, they decide to not even vote, completely forgetting that there are so many important LOCAL offices and issues to vote on. And you have to do it at the same time, so pick the lesser of two (or three) Presidential evils if necessary but please do not dismiss this opportunity to make your vote count locally.Good Point! |
| iGSM 29.09.2004 10:48 |
Thank God for compulsory voting. |
| Albyboy 29.09.2004 11:18 |
Islamic and Christian philosophies are more or less the same... And it is quite funny to see how pacific doctrines have inspired the most horrible tragedies in world's history!!! It doesn't matter if a doctrine is based on peaceful concepts: it's how you 'sell' it to those who don't have the means for understanding it deeply... Masses can be easily controlled if you keep them in their ignorance: the Church has done this for Centuries, Nazism and Fascism did this too and the same are doing the various Imams and Ayatollahs these days... When you deal with religions, it's easy to turn a bunch of sheep into a battallion of fanatics... It's not a case that the most famous innovators of all times were those who tried to achieve an improvement of the general culture: Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc, etc, etc... Personally I've always been allergic to ALL religions, strongly believing that they are just a control device... Religions, I said, not PHILOSOPHIES which, forth most part, are conceived as sets of tools that people can use to widen their horizons... Sorry for the personal thoughts shared in this topic... Albyboy |
| The Real Wizard 30.09.2004 01:39 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: You're right Bob, many people think that Islam is a religion of hate (especially those who have no clue whatsoever about what Islam stands for). But guess what?... Muslims in the middle east also think that christianity is also a religion of hate.But the difference is, here we have the means to educate ourselves freely of other religions. I don't think such folks in the middle east have such freedom there. If people are in the mood, this topic may end up becoming the next religious debate. Personally I've always been allergic to ALL religions, strongly believing that they are just a control device... Religions, I said, not PHILOSOPHIES which, forth most part, are conceived as sets of tools that people can use to widen their horizons...Superb post to this point, Albyboy, but I'll have to disagree with you on this paragraph... not all religions are control devices. Most popularized religions essentially are as such, but something like Progressive Christianity is not. Go to link and you'll see a style of religion that will probably be different than what you've generally seen. To summarize that style of religious practice, it is something where questions are valued more than answers, and where faith is therefore a journey, rather than a path that someone else has laid out for you. Science is welcomed, and not spat upon because scripture "disagrees" with it. Such attitude is completely anti-intellectual, not to mention ridiculously immature in the 21st century. You don't have to check your brain at the door (ie confessing what are essentially supernatural beliefs), and you are inclusive of everyone, free of judgement. To me, that is an example of religion done properly. I could go on for ages about what such an open style of faith and religious education has done for me. But I'm not here to hijack this topic, so I'll just say that at my church, we are properly educated about first and second century history; and when such knowledge is there, most traditional Christian doctrines become almost laughable. So in this sense, religion, with the help of historical background, can widen horizons, just as the words of ancient philosophers can. And what about Buddhism? The path to enlightenment, which is true compassion for all sentinent beings. That is a challenge almost insurmountable and just plain foreign to most traditionally religious people, because their religions usually create barriers between them and certain groups. |
| Albyboy 30.09.2004 06:50 |
Thank you SirGH for the link... It was an interesting aknowledgement... But this IS the point I tried to achieve: maybe my poor English doesn't allow me to explain with proper words what I have in mind, but Progressive Christianity seems to me much more a philosophy rather than a religion... And so does Buddhism... I mean, religions usually STATE dogmas and rules where philosophies just SHOW you a way... There is much more freedom, in my opinion... And I'd like to point out, although I'm not Christian, how the Gospel actually IS a "collection" of absolutely precious philosophic thoughts... Whoever had written that (or better, said those words), was surely an astonishingly talented thinker, far ahead to his times... Probably a "real" Jesus existed, who knows... I just don't like what the Church arbitrarily added to his teachings in order to turn him into what he was not... Anyway, it's nice to share opinions with such a clever person as you seem you are, SirGH... Excuse my English once more, please... Sometimes I really feel like I had my hands tied and I can't explain what I would really mean... Sorry!!! :-) Albyboy |
| The Real Wizard 30.09.2004 16:04 |
Albyboy wrote: Progressive Christianity seems to me much more a philosophy rather than a religion... And so does Buddhism... I mean, religions usually STATE dogmas and rules where philosophies just SHOW you a way... There is much more freedom, in my opinion...Yes, I'll definitely agree with you there! And I'd like to point out, although I'm not Christian, how the Gospel actually IS a "collection" of absolutely precious philosophic thoughts... Whoever had written that (or better, said those words), was surely an astonishingly talented thinker, far ahead to his times... Probably a "real" Jesus existed, who knows... I just don't like what the Church arbitrarily added to his teachings in order to turn him into what he was not...Yeah, it's pretty certain that a huge chunk of the supposed sayings of Jesus in the bible weren't really said by him (the same goes for the Apostle Paul as well). As for most of the things that actually did happen, their original format surely hasn't survived the translations they have gone through. Consider this: Most of the original Greek manuscripts had no spaces between words, no difference between upper and lower case letters, and worst of all... no punctuation! Every word in the New Testament sourced from Greek has gone through this process at one point or another. Thus, it's a general rule that the hardest manuscripts to understand are probably the most accurate, because there were less changes to make them easier to read. Fascinating, eh? Although almost all ministers and priests know all this stuff, they can't share this with the lay people, because the church will then definitely be giving up a lot of control over beliefs and thoughts. Most ministers maintain their private faith of the academy, and are forced to preach the old Sunday School faith. Only a very few have the courage to do otherwise. But the information is all out there, if anyone wants to look for it. It's no secret nowadays, for those who are emotionally ready to take an honest look at it. One can only imagine the emotional trauma of a conservative seminary student who has received such information when they were not ready for it. They go there under the impression that they are just going to school to understand their faith better, but it ends up being quite the opposite. Anyway, it's nice to share opinions with such a clever person as you seem you are, SirGH...Same with you. :) Excuse my English once more, please... Sometimes I really feel like I had my hands tied and I can't explain what I would really mean... Sorry!!!You speak pretty well for my liking... it's certainly better English than many of the American posters on here! |
| LiveAidQueen 30.09.2004 16:55 |
Pro-Kerry |
| Music Man 30.09.2004 19:12 |
We all love you, LiveAidQueen...but we also love elaboration. I would much rather understand your views than know them. Can you please help me with this? :) |
| LiveAidQueen 30.09.2004 19:17 |
Nahh |
| Music Man 30.09.2004 19:20 |
Well, you can always vote Eddie into office. A vote for Eddie is a vote for rock and roll. |
| LiveAidQueen 30.09.2004 19:26 |
That could be interesting. |
| Albyboy 30.09.2004 19:27 |
Music Man wrote: Well, you can always vote Eddie into office. A vote for Eddie is a vote for rock and roll.Btw, hi Music Man... Never met you again... How's it going? :-) Albyboy |
| Music Man 30.09.2004 19:39 |
Albyboy wrote:It's going great. And it feels very good to realize that my love for rock and roll completely prevails over any complications politics can deliver. And I think that I am not alone in this opinion. Anyway, how are you?Music Man wrote: Well, you can always vote Eddie into office. A vote for Eddie is a vote for rock and roll.Btw, hi Music Man... Never met you again... How's it going? :-) Albyboy |
| Albyboy 30.09.2004 19:45 |
Not bad... Just have some problems in falling asleep... As usual!!! Take care Albyboy |
| joeyjojo 30.09.2004 19:59 |
"But the difference is, here we have the means to educate ourselves freely of other religions. I don't think such folks in the middle east have such freedom there." Iraq was one of the leading countries in the middle east in terms of knowledge and education. That and we're very free to learn about other religions in the US, bu so few people actually do. Hence the continued bickering between them all. I'm a big fan of required theology courses in schools. I think the biggest weakness we have as adults is a lack of understanding of our own history and each other. |
| Music Man 30.09.2004 20:01 |
Sounds like a boring class. I hate history enough. Maybe I'll be a big fan in a few years, though. |
| rhapsody__87 30.09.2004 21:50 |
I'm very Pro-Kerry. This debate is on fire! I'm Pro-Kerry because I'm so anti-Bush it's disgusting. And if I could vote (I'll be 18 in February, dammit!), I wouldn't even consider voting for Nader. And we all know Bush is going to win anyway. UGH. |
| Mr.Jingles 30.09.2004 22:47 |
Just watched the debate... some people said that Kerry needed to win by knock out, and although I think he didn't exactly whoop Bush's ass, he still managed to be more firm on his issues than Bush, who seemed quite nervous in some of his answers and who stumbled more while trying to give answers. |
| The Real Wizard 01.10.2004 10:18 |
joeyjojo wrote: "But the difference is, here we have the means to educate ourselves freely of other religions. I don't think such folks in the middle east have such freedom there." Iraq was one of the leading countries in the middle east in terms of knowledge and education.Oh really? Well, I stand corrected then! That and we're very free to learn about other religions in the US, bu so few people actually do. Hence the continued bickering between them all.The republicans won't budge, so the hope is in the remaining 50 or so percent. I'm a big fan of required theology courses in schools. I think the biggest weakness we have as adults is a lack of understanding of our own history and each other.Agreed. Kids need to be theologically educated properly, and they need to know that asking questions is okay! But I just don't see such a thing happening soon, unfortunately. Ignorance has been bliss throughout the ages. |
| Music Man 01.10.2004 15:53 |
rhapsody__87 <small>super!</small> wrote: I'm very Pro-Kerry. This debate is on fire! I'm Pro-Kerry because I'm so anti-Bush it's disgusting. And if I could vote (I'll be 18 in February, dammit!), I wouldn't even consider voting for Nader. And we all know Bush is going to win anyway. UGH.Really? I'll be 18 in February too. I bet you that I'm older, though. Fifty bucks. |
| FairyQueen 02.10.2004 11:31 |
hmm...I feel bad for Nader...he's not on every ballot in the U.S. I don't think that's fair...I don't know about you but, I would like to abolish all political parties so there wouldn't be so much bickering..each candiate would represent themselves and not a party..people then, wouldn't be pressured to have certain ideals because it doesn't go with what the party stands for....I also think you shouldn't have to register which party you're under when voting...I say it shoulnd't matter...just allow the person to vote and not have them have to state what party they're under.... |
| deleted user 02.10.2004 11:38 |
I'm only 14, but where I live, most people are for Kerry. In fact, if they see a pro-Bush person, it's very likely they'll go stalking the person taunting "evil" at them. Or maybe my friends are just strange...Ah, yes, i think that's it. |
| Pluto 02.10.2004 12:25 |
I go to a catholic school. There are 2 demacrates in the school. One of them tried to but a kerry edwards sticker on his locker and almost got beat up. We now can not put anything politcal in our lockers. I'm for bush only because he stands for most of the same things that i believe in and he dosen't flip flop like Kerry has. But I can't vote yet. |
| joeyjojo 02.10.2004 12:30 |
" Sounds like a boring class. I hate history enough. Maybe I'll be a big fan in a few years, though. " How old are you? History *does* suck even up into college. The problem is that we don't actually teach history. We just teach some facts and dates out of a shallow book. If you are still in highschool (or are of any age, for that matter), I strongly recommend you pick up the book 'Lies my Teacher Taught me' (you can find it on Amazon). A great book, and, sadly, NOT required reading in highschool...as it should be. |
| joeyjojo 02.10.2004 12:33 |
Wow...lots of young'uns! If you're interested in this stuff (as you should be...I regrettably wasn't until later in life), get involved with FairVote.org -- one of the few political groups actively pushing to change our entire voting system so that it is not continually unbalanced in favour of the two party system. |
| Maz 02.10.2004 12:50 |
FairyQueen wrote: I also think you shouldn't have to register which party you're under when voting...I say it shoulnd't matter...just allow the person to vote and not have them have to state what party they're under....You don't have to register with one party in order to vote. If you want to vote in a primary, then yes. But for all general elections, including the one in November, you do not. |
| FairyQueen 02.10.2004 19:14 |
but you have to state your party |
| Maz 02.10.2004 19:39 |
No, you do not have to state your party. I just filled a voter registration card that gave the option of "undeclared." Believe me, I have experience in this crazy democratic process we call "voting," and I have never been forced to register with a party to partake.* *As previously mentioned, primary elections generally DO require registering. But when I voted in a state caucus this spring, I did not have to register. |
| Music Man 02.10.2004 19:56 |
joeyjojo wrote: " Sounds like a boring class. I hate history enough. Maybe I'll be a big fan in a few years, though. " How old are you? History *does* suck even up into college. The problem is that we don't actually teach history. We just teach some facts and dates out of a shallow book. If you are still in highschool (or are of any age, for that matter), I strongly recommend you pick up the book 'Lies my Teacher Taught me' (you can find it on Amazon). A great book, and, sadly, NOT required reading in highschool...as it should be.By a few years I meant "until I am no longer taking any classes related to history, theology, or otherwise." Anyway, I am 17 years old and I was thinking about buying that book because it seemed to be somewhat interesting and promoted often. However, I am generally busy, and I don't think that I have enough time to read such a thing that I am not super-interested in. You could probably count on me eventually picking it up, though. No worries. :-) |
| joeyjojo 02.10.2004 22:14 |
"I'm for bush only because he stands for most of the same things that i believe in and he dosen't flip flop like Kerry has. But I can't vote yet." Well, before you get to that age, please learn to think for yourself. I'm sure you will once you break out of Catholic school. ;o) |
| Ramses 03.10.2004 10:37 |
joeyjojo wrote: I'm between Nader and Kerry at this point, but in the end, voting is what really counts. Some day, we might have a country here in the US where we can actually get a 50% voter turnout ;o)Someday! BTW...what IS voter turnout nowadays for US presidential elections? Isn't it around 20-30 %? I vaguely remember reading an article about Russian law that REQUIRES any election to have at least 50 % turnout to be valid. Is this true? That's an AWESOME idea (whether or not it's true), and I'd like to see something like that implemented in the US. |