| Phoenix501 07.09.2004 20:16 |
I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but I've been a big fan for many years of this site (prefering it before more official sites), but have recently found it getting more dominated by greed more than a place to display people's love of Queen. Although I admire the generosity of those people who torrent their Queen bootlegs, and perfectly understand why any newer fan or less fortunate fan would download these shows, it annoys me that some people would use this site as a medium to chance their luck for other material... whether it be other shows or rarities that they don't have. I worked my ass off to get money to buy official material and further still to buy bootlegs of any sort. Don't get me wrong, I downloaded anything I found, but was never lucky to get full shows... I'm talking about the odd file from a fan site. But I never got greedy, demanding more. It's just anytime I visit this site, someone is always asking for something else... and to me that is greed. Maybe this is just a new era of fans, which is always great... but I did spend a lot of time and effort trying to build my collection up, as I'm sure a lot of fans did, but this seems to have had a dominoe effect on the Queen Hub as well. Although the community of the Hub is rising.... whenever I visit there seems to be less familiar names and instead newer names all sharing the same material... i.e what they get from this site. I may be missing the point here and if I am then I do apologise... but I do get upset when people demand more, when they are already getting so much. Feel free to discard this thread at your will, I'm very aware that this is possibly one of my first posts but I have been a voyeur of this site for many years and have thoroughly enjoyed the news, opinions and discussions which it has offered. MC |
| Kuku 07.09.2004 21:04 |
Well, I don't download bootlegs often anymore (a few good concerts from every tour is enough for me) but you do have a point, especially if the problem spreads to the hub... that place at least has to be some place where there is a fair sharing. But you know, it might be just that the older fans have less things they find valuable in the hub (so don't show up) and newer people seem more frequent, particularly because they amass the require 2G from this site easily. Let's hope that everyone can bring in different materials that they can uncover in the near future. By the way, welcome! |
| Richard Orchard 08.09.2004 00:40 |
Well, i am glad that there alternatives to paying some bootlegger loads of money for a concert. |
| joeyjojo 08.09.2004 01:02 |
It's one thing to be upset about begging/constant requests...that can get annoying. It's another to be sore about all the 'hard-work' you put into building your collection only to have the internet make building a collection that much easier...that's just an odd way of making collecting something into a weird competition. Considering it takes little effort to share something, I'm not sure if it's really a 'greed' issue to the extent that you're maybe thinking it is. All IMHO, of course. |
| Mr. Scully 08.09.2004 03:14 |
I have a feeling that people nowadays don't trade anymore (the good old fashioned way of posting a package, you know). Why bother going to post office when it's a chance to wait and download from the hub? But the truth is that if you really want something particular, it's much better to find a trade than wait months on the hub or keep asking in the forum for it. I'm afraid most people are lazy and not willing to do anything more than just pressing the download button. |
| Penis - Vagina 08.09.2004 04:34 |
It's different for me I guess, since I'm not very into the live stuff.. I haven't downloaded a single concert, either audio or video. I've downloaded 2 Freddie Mercury documentaries through here and that's it. But I have shared a lot of stuff like instrumentals and things I've edited myself and I'm kind of flattered when someone asks for something I have, or quite pleased when I'm able to provide something that isn't easily available. And the first thing I want to do when I've bought an expensive import is share it with people who either can't get it or are interested in a good quality example of what it is so they can decide whether to buy it. I don't feel bad at all that I've had to pay for something and someone else is getting it free. Like when I got the Karaoke Hits DVD. I could have just bragged about getting it, but instead I wanted to post detailed info and share the new mixes that were included because a $40 DVD available only from Japan isn't in everyone's budget and I think all fans deserve to hear interesting new tracks when they creep up in odd releases like that. I'm sure there's some folks just sitting back and downloading everything without buying stuff, but that's not enough for me to keep things from the genuinely interested, paying Queen fan in a country that doesn't get such releases. As for live bootlegs and stuff like that, I suspect that most sharers feel the same way about being able to provide stuff that people are interested in. There's not much you can do about it anyway.. what's the point? :) I doubt that this thread has discouraged anyone from sharing or downloading. |
| John S Stuart 08.09.2004 12:26 |
Whirled peas: I know where you are coming from, and yes it is nice to share - but I don't think that is the main point here. Nor do I think it is about a league of "super-traders" finding that rarities are being passed among genuine Queen fans. Infact, I think we all support the "kill the bootleg trade" ideology. Phoenix501: I agree, I too find that the amount of "aggressive begging" and "leaching" in this zone has started to become more frequent and annoying. It seems to have shifted from an altruistic "distribution of wealth", to a more "unpleasant demanding" ...as if some forgotten concert was a God given right to own - without even a by your leave as a thank-you. Infact it has become so bad, that recently, we have even seen the demand for OFFICIALLY available product! Mr Scully: (Martin) It's not so much the laziness which annoys me, but the sheer arrogant expectation - and if that expectation is not met, then it seems OK to criticise the Zone for not sharing! I visit Beatles, Stones and Zeppelin forums, and I can assure you that the "feed me now" mentality of this zone - is NOT the same there. Perhaps it's because those collectors try to be more independant, or perhaps it is because they have been around longer than Queen and attract less newbies, but whatever the reason, I think they attract a lot less "bums" (in USA hobo sense) than we do. I am really sorry to make the comparison, but some days I pass beggars in the street, and some days I will drop a coin their hat. (After all, we all have some sort of humane compassion). But I must admit, that the drunk, the abusive or aggressive, who really EXPECT me to drop a coin simply BECAUSE I have a job, then curse me behind my back if I don't, do make me wary of travelling the same streets again. It is unpleasant, unfriendly and uncalled for. Unfortunately (IMO) SOME threads on Queenzone, generate the same response. |
| Sonja 08.09.2004 12:41 |
I don't even have the hub, nor do I collect bootlegs so I can't say anything about that problem. But the whole internet/downloading thing is extremely annoying... Things are losing their value somehow, because you can get anything you want just by mouseclick. I understand Martin's point, even though I don't trade bootlegs, I think it's so much nicer to send packages across the countries, they go from continent to continent... it's much more personal and rare than to download everything from the internet. |
| John S Stuart 09.09.2004 12:27 |
From what I have read from other threads, it seems that another uneque Queenzone problem has developed - that is the "smash 'n grab" mentality of a "greedy" minority. I Quote Richard Orchard: "Could people please continue to share the concerts they have downloaded. The dundee concert has had over 58 successful downloads but only has 5 seeds. If people aren't going to share, then they shouldn't download the concerts at all. Leave your computer on all night after you have downloaded the concert, and you will probably go most of the way towards doing your bit. Remember, if it wasn't for people sharing in the first instance, you wouldn't have the concerts at all. SHARE PEOPLE!!!!!!" As long as there is genorosity in the world - there will always be the selfish few who exploit for their own greedy ends. |
| The Real Wizard 09.09.2004 13:50 |
Good posts, JSS. |
| AC 09.09.2004 14:00 |
Yes, an excellent post, as usual. |
| agneepath! 11994 09.09.2004 14:51 |
I think it would be fair to say that Queen fans here at QZ have "never had it so good" With so many kind people sharing their music - we've become spoilt! |
| Wilki Amieva 09.09.2004 16:28 |
Well said, John. And I want to add that I do not regret the old times. I have enjoyed getting it all the hard way and I still do. (Or should I say the hardest way? I live in Argentina - this certainly makes things more difficult;-). I like the items I have partly because they have their history, their background. They did not simply fall from the net. I enjoy the time I spend on this - such a pity that 'the best things in life ain't free'. Peace |
| little foetus 10.09.2004 04:33 |
If bittorrent and the hub exist and spread, it's because it's the easiest (or the laziest for some people)way to share concerts. Why do you want me to trade with someone at the other side of the world as we can share our concerts on queenzone and especially on the hub? I made this request of copenhagen 78 on queenzone because i can't find anyone who has this concert in complete form on the hub and i know that many people would like it. Then, if people are selfish and don't share their concerts, that's another problem. I think the main problem is that many people are leechers. If everyone share their concerts, this system is a fabulous one. |
| musicalprostitute 10.09.2004 05:22 |
I agree totally, i loved queenzone when it had all the pics, and the FAN forum, and the old concert forum, but now... I don't know, it just seems that the whole site is being held together by the threads of Torrents. I do appreciate the rare concerts, but is there a way to do this a little more spread out, or only on certain occasion? Don't get me wrong, i love these concerts, and would not want to see them leave, but just a little more FAN oriented things such as fan songs, maybe starting torrents of Queen tribute bands, ect. I just miss the environment where all of Queenies get along and don't argue about stupid torrents, and begging for free concerts...maybe trading? What ever happened to good old fashioned bartering? I DO NOT want to offend anyone with my opinions, but if it does, i'm sorry. KYA |
| Albyboy 10.09.2004 06:14 |
Maybe I'm not the right person to express an opinion about this topic... You know, I've joined not that long time ago and I don't know how QZ was before... I can easily argue how the longer-time members feel about it but, if I can say what it seems to me, I don't think that the spirit of this site has gone forever... I mean, I have been posting a lot for the first days after I joined (I had much spare time... I was still on Holidays *SIGH*) and now I give a look much rarely... I was lucky to know some VERY VERY VERY nice people and, with them, I am working out beautiful friendships (even if just by e-mail)... They have been members for a lot of time, but they've never made me feel like a newbie or something like that (maybe because I'm quite older than most of them!!!)... Yes, maybe you are complaining about some assholes who post bullshits just because they have got nothing better to do but, and that's always a personal opinion, luckily there aren't so many... In the end, try to keep your friendships up despite all the crap somebody else is posting... Ignore them and, hopefully, they'll got tired and go away... This forum is YOURS, don't let them take it away from you!!! ... And, believe me, you don't seem to be kept together just by the torrent files... Sorry for this strange kind of language... I know this isn't English!!!!! :-) Albyboy |
| Fenderek 10.09.2004 08:35 |
I wander about one more thing- ppl want more and more shows, but... are you guys fucking listening to them...?Or did you just downloaded it, burnt onto CD, played maybe once and want more...? It seems like some ppl want to have more and more, as soon as possible, NOW and they don't have time to listen to those shows... With the old-fashioned way it was always the waiting for the package, and when it finally arrived there was a long time to actually get to know those gigs, before the next trade... It's the same mechanism as with ppl who have 50 million pounds and want even more and more... What the fuck for if you already don't know what to do with it...? Same here- why do you want more, if you didn't even listen to the others...? |
| John S Stuart 10.09.2004 15:53 |
Now this REALLY does make me mad, and succinctly sums up the feelings of this thread. Thanks to My hair's a disgrace for sharing this in the "Sharing the music" forum. Has anyone seen these? link link link link link Aren't all of these shows ones that have been shared here? |
| Albyboy 10.09.2004 16:01 |
Uuuuuugggghhhh.... Yeeeeezzzz.... |
| musicalprostitute 10.09.2004 16:33 |
I saw this, this is terrible, but guess what? I just reported them to Ebay Admin for trying to sell these, they are NOT official recordings. Sorry but it had to be done. |
| John S Stuart 10.09.2004 17:57 |
"Thanks to My hair's a disgrace for sharing this in the "Sharing the music" forum... all of these shows ones that have been shared here?" The sickening fact is, that this person is one of "US". This is a visitor to this site, perhaps a contributer, who has seen fit NOT only to leech, but to profit from the generosity of others. Kind of makes you feel violated doesn't it - or does the name Judas spring to mind? (BTW: If you are reading this - hang your head in shame scumbag). |
| Saint Jiub 10.09.2004 23:25 |
There will always be a few bad apples, but that is no reason to stop sharing. Some pie in the sky ideas to legislate bootleg sharing morality: Can the song files be made unplayable until the recipient has seeded the concert for a certain amount of time? Can frequent seeders get higher priority / faster downloads? |
| Maz 11.09.2004 01:24 |
John S Stuart wrote: I visit Beatles, Stones and Zeppelin forums, and I can assure you that the "feed me now" mentality of this zone - is NOT the same there. Perhaps it's because those collectors try to be more independant, or perhaps it is because they have been around longer than Queen and attract less newbies, but whatever the reason, I think they attract a lot less "bums" (in USA hobo sense) than we do.On the flip side of this, there are other band communities, U2 for instance, where sharing is the norm. I'm sure there is certain material that is solely for the hardcore trader, but I know that concert material, which is what many QZers have been asking for lately, is freely shared in all possible manners. I think the major difference is that those fans are very appreciative of what they get through the kindness of others, and more personal contact between members develops. Here, it's mainly a situation where one person begs, and maybe gets a torrent to download with little accountability as to whether they've shared it with others. The problem with the Queen community, for lack of a better term, is that the rules have already been laid out for collectors. The only way to get ahead is to play the game. |
| SallyJ. 11.09.2004 05:20 |
All I'd like to say is: I am glad to see a nice discussion on this forum. Finally! :) |