| martinusx 11.08.2004 09:47 |
Why is it that Queen often does not get the respect they deserve? Given the fact that they wrote plenty of memorable songs and that especially Freddie and Brian were excellent instrumentalist, I find that the 'Serious' music press ignores their achievements. Is it because of their music is often pompous, or flamboyant, did they sell to many records, or what did they do to derve being called 'Facist'? Bob Dylan for example is respected, but he can't really sing and hasn't written that many songs. I find it a bit irritating, but Queen did get more respected when Freddie died. It's a good carreer move to die in showbizz Greetz |
| martinusx 11.08.2004 09:48 |
Dylan wrote not that many good songs I meant. |
| joeyjojo 11.08.2004 10:05 |
There is no such thing as 'serious' music press. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 11.08.2004 10:06 |
The only good song Dylan wrote was All along the watch tower, the rest was boring old crap, in other words, music to slash your wrists too, au revoir. |
| Joma 11.08.2004 10:12 |
Freddie once said 'Fuck the press' and the 'press' will never forget that. |
| Mr.Jingles 11.08.2004 10:22 |
Dylan has written much more songs than Queen, but Queen has written far better songs. Has anyone noticed how all the Bob Dylan covers are always better than the original? I totally agree that the guy can't sing for shit. |
| Sir B.A Baracus 11.08.2004 10:23 |
Blinded By the Light Words and Music by Bruce Springsteen Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat With a boulder on my shoulder feelin' kinda older I tripped the merry-go-round With this very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing the calliope crashed to the ground Some all-hot half-shot was headin' for the hot spot snappin' his fingers clappin' his hands And some fleshpot mascot was tied into a lover's knot with a whatnot in her hand And now young Scott with a slingshot finally found a tender spot and throws his lover in the sand And some bloodshot forget-menot whispers daddy's within earshot save the buckshot turn up the band And she was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light She got down but she never got tight, but she'll make it alright Some brimstone baritone anticyclone rolling stone preacher from the east He says: "Dethrone the dictaphone, hit it in its funny bone, that's where they expect it least" And some new-mown chaperone was standin' in the corner all alone watchin' the young girls dance And some fresh-sown moonstone was messin' with his frozen zone to remind him of the feeling of romance Yeah he was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light He got down but she never got tight, but he's gonna make it tonight Some silicone sister with her manager's mister told me I got what it takes She said I'll turn you on sonny to something strong if you play that song with the funky break And go-cart Mozart was checkin' out the weather chart to see if it was safe to go outside And little Early-Pearly came in by her curly-wurly and asked me if I needed a ride Oh, some hazard from Harvard was skunked on beer playin' backyard bombardier Yes and Scotland Yard was trying hard, they sent a dude with a calling card, he said, do what you like, but don't do it here Well I jumped up, turned around, spit in the air, fell on the ground, asked wich was the way back home He said take a right at the light, keep going straight until right, and then boy you're on your own And now in Zanzibar a shootin' star was ridin' in a side car hummin' a lunar tune Yes, and the avatar said blow the bar but first remove the cookie jar, we're gonna teach those boys to laugh too soon And some kidnapped handicap was complaining that he caught the clap from some mousetrap he bought last night Well I unsnapped his skull cap and between his ears I saw a gap but he'd figured he'd be all right He was just blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light Mama always told me not to look into the sights of the sun Oh but mama that's where the fun is |
| Mr.Jingles 11.08.2004 10:34 |
Listen to this because it's very important... Who gives a fuck what critics think when music itself was made for the general public to enjoy it, not for some moron to tell people what they should listen to. It's the opinion of hundreds of critics against millions of people... so who is going to win? As Freddie mentioned before, critics are nothing but a bunch of frustrated musicians. These music "experts" base their comments only on personal matters with the musicians, not quality, originality or talent. Bob Dylan could be a god among critics, but he doesn't have one single bit of the worldwide popularity that Queen has. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 11.08.2004 10:37 |
Well said Jingle Bells |
| KillerQueen840 11.08.2004 10:49 |
I don't even listen to critics. :) |
| Sebastian 11.08.2004 11:16 |
It's actually a combination of factors. Queen didn't actually invent anything, and top bands are mostly recognised for that: e.g. Led Zeppelin / Black Sabbath created heavy metal, Dylan started mature lyricism, Beatles did the first concept album... Now I'm not discussing now if those statements are true, but for the general audience, they're considered facts. Same as Jimmy Hendrix as the best guitarist, John Bonham as the best drummer... Queen's only official "first" is the video, and without telling the whole story, there are many videos before Bo Rhap. As for Queen's music itself, apart from the "lack of inventions": not enough promotion in the US during the 80s, with exception of Bo Rhap all of its mammooth hits are musically simple: Rock You, Radio Ga Ga, I Want To Break Free and the two US #1s. We Are The Champions is another super-hit and many people know it, but, as Denes once pointed out, nearly nobody pays attention to the music: the key changes, the orchestral bass-line, the way guitars build up the climax, the "angelical" vocal harmonies... Freddie's style, specially from Sheer Heart Attack onwards, was to put a "reverse make-up" and make the complex things look simpler, so they could be easy listeneable. For example Bicycle Race or Killer Queen are very complex songs, musically, but an ocassional listener doesn't note that because Freddie put the modulations and stuff to happen "in the background". As opposed to that, several progressive songs are simpler, but they put so much improvisation and instrumental parts over them that they seem so much complex than they actually are. For example 'The Wall' album (Pink Floyd), is very respected and admired, even though it's not complex harmonically. Of course I love the album and the arrangements are great but that's a different issue. Same for songs like November Rain or even Stairway. Mercury's choice had a good part: those "proggressive" songs could still be "pop" and could be brought to the masses (a similar choice as Supertramp in late 70s). But of course it had a bad part: few people realise how clever those songs really are. He kind of sacrificed his own "musical genius" image due to that, and I'm glad he did, personally. If Bicycle Race or Somebody To Love lasted 18 minutes long and all the modulations were shown more in the foreground, surely prog fans would respect more the band, but a much smaller audience would even know about those tracks. As for their performance, it's also lack of general "fame". I mean all the world knows Radio Ga Ga, but very few know Was It All Worth It. Even a lot of Queen fans ignore the amazing range Roger had (he sang very high but he could also do great low notes), or John's melodic bass-lines (e.g. the ending of Loser In The End). While Freddie's popularity as singer is in a high level (and "best frontman/singer" polls demonstrate it), a lot of non-fans don't even know he played piano, much less they know about his most interesting keyboard parts (the solos of My Fairy King, Love Of My Life, Fairy Feller's Master Stroke). |
| Fenderek 11.08.2004 11:48 |
Sebastian wrote: Queen didn't actually invent anything, and top bands are mostly recognised for that: e.g. Led Zeppelin / Black Sabbath created heavy metal, Dylan started mature lyricism, Beatles did the first concept album... Now I'm not discussing now if those statements are true, but for the general audience, they're considered facts. Same as Jimmy Hendrix as the best guitarist, John Bonham as the best drummer... Queen's only official "first" is the video, and without telling the whole story, there are many videos before Bo Rhap.That's a very good point!!! No-one can deny that some influence (and the bands mentioned by Sebastian are among the strongest ones!) is heard on EVERY Queen album... I would add one more thing, though- another reason why they didn't invent too much and are not that respected by general public is the fact that they were more often than not following the trends... In 1970s the rock was the major force and Queen were cool by playing heavy (of course it's generalisation- they had their own unique style, but...) Came 80s, pop became extremely popular and their music changed as well... Especially its production- albums like AKOM or WORKS have 80s written all over them... The bands like Dream Theater play their music no matter what is actually popular - they're gonna be more respected than, but... not so popular!!! I'm not saying this way or another is better, but... That's how it works, IMO Sebastian wrote: with exception of Bo Rhap all of its mammooth hits are musically simple: Rock You, Radio Ga Ga, I Want To Break Free and the two US #1s. We Are The Champions is another super-hit and many people know it, but, as Denes once pointed out, nearly nobody pays attention to the music: the key changes, the orchestral bass-line, the way guitars build up the climax, the "angelical" vocal harmonies...Many ppl I've met stated they didn't like Queen giving me examples of tracks like Radio Ga-Ga or IWTBF, basically thinking that's what Queen were all about... You can't imagine how surprised they were and how much they enjoyed it when I forced them to listen to my bootlegs- Hammersmith'79, Buenos Aires'81, and the likes... They never even thought Queen had so much energy and were such a great rock band!!! And those ppl weren't idiots- they were just listening to different artists- Lou Reed fans, Nirvana fans, Black Sabbath fans, even Metallica fans... ****************************** It seems like some ppl didn't understand what this subjest is about... It's not only about critics... Only few hundreds? Well, how about millions of ppl who AREN'T Queen fans because all they hear in the radio is Ga-Ga or We are The Champions and when they read newspapers, they read- it's all crap... How about general audience- not everybody has to own a Queen album; not everybody has to know what Queen was all about!!! And clearly- Queen isn't respected not only by critics, but also by a huge part of general rock audience- very often misleded by those "unimportant" critics, but also very often because of bad promotion... I know many ppl here love Wembley, but... I can't see Led Zeppelin die-hards falling on their knees after listening to Wembley... I could imagine them doing so, however, after listening to Houston... |
| John S Stuart 11.08.2004 12:17 |
Read the forum! Try these answers Another Queen Song In A Commercial link Sue their asses!! link and this is a Queen/Brian friendly site! You know I love my children (nothing means more to me) but there are times when I have criticised and even on ocassion - chastised them. This does not mean I do NOT love them - quite the reverse. But we do not have to be sycophantic. If only someone loved Elvis enough to say he was too fat. If only someone stopped Ali from a fight too many. It seems that great rock 'n roll bands sell their soul to the devil and not to "5ive", Britney or Viagra - or complain about their music being used as inspiration! But as musicians - they rock! |
| radio_what's_new 11.08.2004 12:37 |
Sir B.A Baracus wrote: Blinded By the Light Words and Music by Bruce Springsteen Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat With a boulder on my shoulder feelin' kinda older I tripped the merry-go-round With this very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing the calliope crashed to the ground Some all-hot half-shot was headin' for the hot spot snappin' his fingers clappin' his hands And some fleshpot mascot was tied into a lover's knot with a whatnot in her hand And now young Scott with a slingshot finally found a tender spot and throws his lover in the sand And some bloodshot forget-menot whispers daddy's within earshot save the buckshot turn up the band And she was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light She got down but she never got tight, but she'll make it alright Some brimstone baritone anticyclone rolling stone preacher from the east He says: "Dethrone the dictaphone, hit it in its funny bone, that's where they expect it least" And some new-mown chaperone was standin' in the corner all alone watchin' the young girls dance And some fresh-sown moonstone was messin' with his frozen zone to remind him of the feeling of romance Yeah he was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light He got down but she never got tight, but he's gonna make it tonight Some silicone sister with her manager's mister told me I got what it takes She said I'll turn you on sonny to something strong if you play that song with the funky break And go-cart Mozart was checkin' out the weather chart to see if it was safe to go outside And little Early-Pearly came in by her curly-wurly and asked me if I needed a ride Oh, some hazard from Harvard was skunked on beer playin' backyard bombardier Yes and Scotland Yard was trying hard, they sent a dude with a calling card, he said, do what you like, but don't do it here Well I jumped up, turned around, spit in the air, fell on the ground, asked wich was the way back home He said take a right at the light, keep going straight until right, and then boy you're on your own And now in Zanzibar a shootin' star was ridin' in a side car hummin' a lunar tune Yes, and the avatar said blow the bar but first remove the cookie jar, we're gonna teach those boys to laugh too soon And some kidnapped handicap was complaining that he caught the clap from some mousetrap he bought last night Well I unsnapped his skull cap and between his ears I saw a gap but he'd figured he'd be all right He was just blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light Mama always told me not to look into the sights of the sun Oh but mama that's where the fun isWHO GIVES A FUCK STUPID MOTHERFUCKER |
| Whisperer 11.08.2004 13:56 |
Come on! Queen might not have invented anything new, but they were so much better than the rest in everything that was invented before them. And stop bashing Ga-Ga and all those other 80s songs. It was mostly these songs that made Queen a super-band. All kinds of people know them and like them, not only some narrow group of heavy fans or metal fans. |
| Ozz 11.08.2004 14:41 |
I just want to add that..... Queen maybe didnt invent anything (but, brian made his guitar and create a sound).... but what press never saw , was the fact that .. Can you put any band in the same category of Queen? like when people talk about hard rock bands, or heavy metal bands, or progressive bands or anything.... Queen is too smart for being POP, too listenable for being in any rock category, .... Culture always be something for elite, ... alternative music is big just because, if less people heard it, is better and more cult. Thats the good and bad thing of Queen.... Is the only rock band that could be liked by your mother, grandfather, wife and kids, friends and anybody.... and thats not respectable or politically correct, and thats what press hate and thats what makes this forum so big and the queen fans over the world a big and "often" nice movement...... |
| Gunpowder Gelatine 11.08.2004 14:48 |
I agree with Ozz; you can't really fit Queen into a box. They go from ballads (Love Of My Life, You Take My Breath Away), to rockers (Hammer To Fall, I Want It All), and then to more pop-oriented singles (A Kind Of Magic, You're My Best Friend), and then back again. There's just no label that fits, and I guess that that somehow turns people off. And plus, the added stigma of the press isn't that helpful. |
| Music Man 11.08.2004 14:53 |
Yes, Queen is certainly one of the most versatile bands I have ever encountered. |
| LiarLiar 11.08.2004 14:57 |
My two cents. I'm sure that Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, BMW manufacture better cars than its inventors. And current birds do a better job than the Archaeopterix and other primitive dinosaur-birds. Anyway, Queen actually does invented new, magnificent things in music .....QUEEN SONGS |
| Mr.Jingles 11.08.2004 15:40 |
Why is it that so many people call themselves "fans" and all they do is diss their favorite band for trying something new. A band has the right to do the music they want. Look at Metallica for instance... sure their earlier work was perhaps better, but just because someone wants to explore new horizons doesn't mean they've sold out. 'The Black Album' is without a doubt one of the best albums of all time, and just because it appeals more to the general public than the hard core-metal fans doesn't mean it's crap, or that the band has sold out. Genesis case is very similar to Queen... During the 70s Genesis was a well known progressive rock band with still kind of a cult status, then time, new music styles, and the departure of Peter Gabriel forced Genesis to change. Genesis then went more towards the pop/rock mainstream while still keeping a musical identity as a band. They became a bigger band with more hits and albums sold. A lot of their fans resented the change of sound. |
| Gunpowder Gelatine 11.08.2004 15:49 |
Interesting. I've seen many places that have Bohemian Rhapsody recognized as the first video of its kind. Like this website says: "The single was accompanied by a promotional video. It was not the first time a band had made a promo, but this differed in being shot entirely on videotape as opposed to film. It is therefore widely regarded as the first real music video. Ironically, the video was only made because Queen were unable to perform in person on the BBC's Top of the Pops." link |
| Pim Derks 11.08.2004 15:54 |
There were tons of promotional video's before BoRhap. The Beatles made special clips for tracks like Rain, Hello Goodbye and Help. I'm sure there were other artist who also did that. |
| QueenZeppelin 11.08.2004 18:32 |
First, I don't think an artist needs to invent something to be respected. Bruce Springsteen certainly didn't, neither did U2, just to name two. I don't think it's for lack of inventiveness; Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath are generally praised as being the inventors of hard rock/heavy metal, but often I see Queen mentioned along with others such as Aerosmith who helped to form the mold as well. After all, Guns N'Roses, Def Leppard, Metallica, Iron Maiden and Foo Fighters all mention Queen as a primary influence. And in a book I was reading in Barnes & Noble, when asked his favorite songs of the 1970's, Ozzy Osbourne mentions "Bohemian Rhapsody" as one of his top 5. The music critics are often a hostile and choosy bunch; they were harsh to Led Zeppelin (who were also not critic-friendly) until 1985, when rock was on life support and Live Aid reunion buzz was abound. Also, Queen's popularity was becoming huge just at the start of the very fashionable (and highly overrated) punk era. The critics would much rather hoot and holler over nihilstic, torn jeans-clad Sex Pistols than write about the pompous, tights-clad Freddie Mercury, who adored his fame and fortune and everything that goes with it (I thank you all!). Why? Because the press is filled with douche bags. Around this punk era, not even Zeppelin or Pink Floyd got as much attention as the innovative attirudes (and poor musicianship) of groups like the Sex Pistols. I believe that the critics are finally coming around though; while Rolling Stone has and always will hate Queen, recently I have read praising things from Spin magazine, Q, Mojo (ANATO made the top 15 out of 100 best British albums), Guitar magazine (for Brian May) and even NME (though it wasn't as profound, lol) Eventually, I think Queen will get the respect they deserve, and recognized as one of rock's true greats and legends. |
| 7Innuendo7 11.08.2004 18:57 |
critics are just eunuchs in a whorehouse |
| Mr.Jingles 11.08.2004 19:50 |
I still wonder why critics praise the Sex Pistols so much. The only reason why they got so much attention was because they were controversial. Now The Ramones or The Clash... that's REAL punk. |
| Sebastian 11.08.2004 20:52 |
Invent something - Yes I don't mean a band has to invent a new genre to be a great band. Queen can't be labelled, I can't think of any song of them which can be fit in one genre, except for Sleeping On The Sidewalk (blues), Tenement Funster (glam rock) and a couple more. But what's Millionaire Waltz for example? Is it rock? no, is it waltz? no. It's one of a kind. Same for, say, Good Company, or '39 (too many keys to be "skiffle", too catchy to be "progressive"), or Killer Queen. Even Procession is not baroque, it's another one of a kind thing. I don't mean Queen is the only band with that achievement, I just mean they did it. Unfortunately, Queen's best known era is the "pop-crap" one. And yes, Radio Ga Ga is good, has a great production and the arrangement is clever, but I guess this forum would have 5% of its visitors if Queen had started in The Game. |
| iGSM 11.08.2004 22:00 |
What exactly is a concept album? I know that 'The Who' did a concept album (The Who Sell Out) but what is the concept of a concept album (h0h0!) Also didn't Elvis have 'Return to Sender' filmed? Or was that out a of movie when he was conveniently about winning this race or drinking some lemonade? |
| Mr.Jingles 11.08.2004 23:01 |
What is so crap about Queen making pop? Which I need to mention that they still made more good pop songs than bad ones. That's like putting them on the same level as Hanson. Perhaps the reason why Queen is not so respected is because they still don't even get enough respect from some of their own "fans". |
| iGSM 12.08.2004 02:07 |
What about 'A Hard Day's Night'? That's even before Dylan. *shudder* |
| jasen101 12.08.2004 02:18 |
because there are so many hicks in america...they only like southern baptist snake charming music. |
| Daburcor? 12.08.2004 02:35 |
jasen101 wrote: because there are so many hicks in america...they only like southern baptist snake charming music.Hey! Leave Patsy Cline out of this! |
| syncursor 12.08.2004 02:55 |
A few of my friends and I always liked to believe that Queen was our "inside joke" (so to speak). Only a few of us got it and we were happy to keep it that way. I never wanted Queen to have the radio success of say, Phil Collins or U2, because where I live, these artists are on the radio more than once everyday and I'm sick to death of their songs. I very rarely hear Queen and I've never really heard anyone say "Oh, Christ, not another Queen song". I'm thrilled that they don't have the limelight here in North America. A great quote from Noel Gallagher: Interviewer: "Since you've become famous, have you met anyone whom you've admired for years?" Noel: "Yeah, Phil Collins" Interviewer: "You're a fan of Phil Collins?" Noel: "No, I hated the fucker even when he had hair!" |
| goinback 12.08.2004 03:38 |
I'm not sure I understand this topic...Queen is *very* well respected! Maybe not that well-known in the US sometimes, but still.... |
| Oberon 12.08.2004 05:50 |
Some very good points made here. To me, the key lies in some of Seb's points. If critics were true music critics they'd have picked up on some of those points and extolled the musical virtues. But, as has been pointed out, they tended to concentrate on personalities and comparisons with current trends (punk etc). I'm sure some have, and do more today, after Fred died, but historically, that's not been the case. Also, a lot of the songs which we might hold up as the true essence of the band were not singles, and therefore won't have the global exposure. Even now, with the musical, it's the hits which are being used. Those 80s pop tracks everyone seems to think are bad (I don't). Will the musical mean a global resurgance in the albums? I doubt it. It might work for the Greatest Hits packages (or worse, the musical soundtrack - my girlfriend prefers the musical versions to the original as that's her main exposure to the material!!! I've tried to change that, believe me!!!) Finally, all the high profile collaborations are for the same songs (WATC, WWRY), and those aren't the tracks which represent the complex musical nature of the band as we, the fans, understand it. Where artists have ventured in to the more "intersting" areas, like Metallica and Stone Cold Crazy, and Sleeping on The Sidewalk (female artist did this - can't remember her name but was a support to Roger or Brian I think). These things aren't mainstream, so people (critics/non-fans) don't pick up on them. Bit of a ramble, but I hope you get my point. I'd summarise by saying that Queen are respected, but perhaps not for all the right reasons! |
| the oppositionist 12.08.2004 18:41 |
I disagree. I think queen may not have gained as much respect as they deserved from the press but they did of course from the fans AND more importantly, lots from contempory artists and from modern artists. Axl Rose said that queen convinced him and his folks that rock was an art form. There is a direct example of how somebody respected queen so much that they learned from them. |
| high-flying-adored 12.08.2004 22:36 |
7Innuendo7 wrote: critics are just eunuchs in a whorehouseHahahaa! I agree ... that sums it up quite well. Congratulations. |