| jorge 18.03.2004 23:03 |
March 18th. Today is a big day for us the Mexicans, we celebrated the end of our true revolution, 28 years of fight against the "hidden enemy"(who?, U.S. of course)our bigger day (May 5? is a joke)the day that we nationalized our oil locations,the day that we removed you to the f*ckin' "gringos" our oil (sorry, but it's truth) the day that finally somebody could make comply our Constitution (Gral. Lazaro Cárdenas) 1910-1938 |
| TheMiracle 18.03.2004 23:17 |
Mexicana Pride right here! |
| MexQueenFM 19.03.2004 00:37 |
Arriba Mexico Cabrones!!!! :) |
| deleted user 19.03.2004 07:55 |
'Today is a big day for us the Mexicans, we celebrated the end of our true revolution, 28 years of fight against the "hidden enemy"(who?, U.S. of course)our bigger day (May 5? is a joke)the day that we nationalized our oil locations,the day that we removed you to the f*ckin' "gringos" our oil (sorry, but it's truth) the day that finally somebody could make comply our Constitution (Gral. Lazaro Cárdenas)' If the US is the 'hidden enemy', and you 'reomeved the gringos' from your oil sites, why then do millions of Mexicans come to the US illeagaly every single year. Why is it that America (don't forget we are the 'gringos') sends factory after factory to Mexico? I'm a 'fucking gringo' and I don't like your attitude. It's hard enough to live in a place that is fastly becoming the 'new' Mexico, losing factories, and jobs to non-national people, allowing 8 million Mexicans to work here illeagaly (increasing the already high number that do). So please be aware that there are 'gringos' on this board. And I am proud to be one. |
| Ms.Lurex 19.03.2004 08:00 |
um yeah...i admit i was a little offended by the "fucking gringos" comment...since i'm a gringa...was that a quote from somebody else or is that the way you feel about "gringos"? |
| Maz 19.03.2004 12:22 |
"why then do millions of Mexicans come to the US illeagaly every single year." Same reason thousands of Blacks migrated from the South to northern cities in the late-nineteenth, early-twentieth century. That's where the available jobs are. And why are they available? Largely because the dominant white population does not want them. When Mexicans take "our" jobs, what kind of jobs are they taking? Low paying, unskilled positions that most whites would never dream of wanting. As a college education becomes more and more important to the American economy, most immigrants, regardless of nationality, will become marginalized. |
| MexQueenFM 19.03.2004 12:38 |
"And why are they available? Largely because the dominant white population does not want them. When Mexicans take "our" jobs, what kind of jobs are they taking? Low paying, unskilled positions that most whites would never dream of wanting. As a college education becomes more and more important to the American economy, most immigrants, regardless of nationality, will become marginalized." You always hit the nail Zeni :) Latinos do janitorial jobs, which americans wouldn't do, and we don't have insurance , get paid less than 8 dollars per hour and work shifts of 12 hrs :) , so i dont think american would like those jobs :) |
| hamsters 19.03.2004 12:45 |
wasnt here yesterday so here I go today. Whoo! ...sorry, i need to get drunk before i get really excited. |
| iron eagle 19.03.2004 17:11 |
nice post Zeni |
| deleted user 19.03.2004 17:29 |
'And why are they available? Largely because the dominant white population does not want them.' I'm not too sure I believe that 100%. Some of them possibly, but not all. Are you going to tell me that a man who has a family won't take a job because it's 'dirty work' or janitorial? I was in a situation that I would have been happy to work anywhere. Doing anything. 'When Mexicans take "our" jobs, what kind of jobs are they taking? Low paying, unskilled positions that most whites would never dream of wanting.' You are using the word 'whites'. There are plenty of other skin colored individuals who wouldn't want them either. Not when the Government makes it so easy to get on welfare. Or are you talking about corprate 'whites'. 'As a college education becomes more and more important to the American economy, most immigrants, regardless of nationality, will become marginalized.' I would rather see the US take care of thier own. Solve the employment problems we have without making it worse by doing that. But I do see your point. |
| Mr.Jingles 19.03.2004 19:06 |
Great Now that you're so excited, go buy everybody here a six pack of Corona. |
| jorge 19.03.2004 23:37 |
To: Lucy was high, and so was I (and for all) I just talk about an historical fact of how the Mexican nation it reconciled with their existence through the oil expropiation, the molestations, swindles, deceits, abuses of the ignorance and of our military impotence to defend our patrimony exploited by giant industrials whitout scruples(the "f*ckin' gringos", not yours)supported by invicible marines, they were avenged once and forever of of the insatiable North Americans that they removed us with impunity the half of our territory (California, Arizona, Nuevo México, Tejas with "J")(did you know that,right?), in an artful and treacherous attack that they were sanctioned and avenged by one michoacano indian that maked historical justice, that avenged so much suffering and humiliations by that way:I talk about something that happened 66 years ago *In that "Revolution"(1910-1921)we lost more than 10% of our population *Madero,Huerta,Pino Suaréz,Carranza(Mexican presidents)and more than 2 million people indirect victims of the North American interests *I hope you understand that "Iraq is Mexico now" *We have two old proverbs: Mexico so far from God and so near of USA I didn't cross the border, the border crossed to me Jorge |
| Saint Jiub 19.03.2004 23:43 |
I believe that uncontrolled illegal immigration is not good for America, but I seem to be in the minority. However, many of the Queenzone's illegal immigration apologists seem to live in areas that are relatively unaffected by illegal immigration. A few years ago, our janitors from ServiceMaster were all english speaking until a clean freak secretary started nitpicking about dusting (in a manufacturing plant???). We now have "english as a second language" janitors who are probably paid a lot less. A few years ago, we had very few temporary workers that only spoke spanish. Now 90 % of our temporaries speak little or no english, and the plant sounds like little Mexico with the spanish radio stations blaring through the boom boxes. Hmm ... I wonder what they get paid? Of course, I'm not about to rock the boat, as I have a good job there, and a small portion of that money savings probably is added to my pension, profit sharing and yearly bonus (usually available except for lately). Years ago, I worked at McDonald's as a teenager for three years and overall enjoyed working there. Nowadays "english as a second language" workers dominate the fast food restaurants. Are Americans too good for fast food jobs now? Over 10,000 illegal immigrants enter our country illegally every day. Of course, most of these illegal immigrants find honest work, but many do not ... there are always Hispanic gangs and illegal drugs to fall back on for a few of the illegal aliens. I live in hope that the Hispanic gang shootings and drug deaths that spill over into my hometown several times a year will continue to be 5 miles away from my home. What should be done? Businesses that use illegal immigrants should be fined heavily (possible jail time?), not ignored or just used as an enforcement posterchild like Walmart. Americans should be hired in America where ever possible since unemployment is still very high in this country. Of course, legal immigration should probably be allowed to greatly increase ... but only allow in sponsored immigrants employed in jobs that could be "proven" that Americans would not want. |
| jorge 20.03.2004 00:23 |
All the population (the immense majority) is formed for immigrants (descendants of immigrants), more than 260 million people, all the religions of the world, descending of all the countries of the world, What is the difference? a paper What was the difference? some years (100,200,300) I've always wondered how many descendants of Red Skins exists today? (the true North Americans) Another proverb: the Mexicans descend of Aztecs, the Peruvians of Incas, the North Americans of ships |
| Saint Jiub 20.03.2004 01:01 |
So there you have it ... no immigration laws are necessary ... |
| Maz 20.03.2004 02:09 |
Here's how we solve the problem: Raise wages and make whites want those jobs as janitors, fast food workers, maids, etc. Maybe then, some young child in middle-America will actually say to his parents, "I want to work at McDonalds and sling burgers when I grow up." Of course, raising wages will raise business costs. Of course, raising business costs will raise consumer costs. Of course, raising consumer costs means I have to spend more to get less. etc, etc, etc As a member of Queenzone's illegal immigration apologists who does live in an area effected by illegal immigration, I see the full effect of it most days. I've seen parents working 2 jobs and paying for such things as Social Security and Medicare, yet never expecting to take advantage of that. I've seen them pay taxes for services they will never partake of, which in turn helps the white population that will. As a historian, I've seen this trend play out over and over in our brief history. Today, we complain about Mexicans. One hundred years ago it was the Italians. Two decades before that, it was the Irish. In each instance, the group complaining the loudest about immigration are the lower white classes most likely to be out of work by a cheaper work force. (Some complaints heard in the 1890s were that these immigrants were dirty, were clannish and refused to learn english, and crime was more rampant among "their kind") Some people might argue that these whites have a right to complain; others would say they're lashing out at their failure to take advantage of their position within the dominant society. Finally, a brief fun fact: The rate of immigration and growth has actually dropped in the last one hundred years. The US was due to hit about 340 million (our current population is 290-300 million) by around 1940, and this was according to estimates made before the great immigration boom of the 1870s and 1880s. And Jorge: "I've always wondered how many descendants of Red Skins exists today?" First of all, referring to American Indians as "Red Skins" is highly offensive to them; it's best to avoid that term. Second, the Indian Population is one of the fastest growing populations in the US. |
| jorge 20.03.2004 02:38 |
Sorry I didn't know it, I just used the most common term used in Mexico (a team in Washington exists with that name highly offensive(?)), well I just wanted to make notice the difference between their ethnic groups and ours, because we are also North American |
| Mr.Jingles 20.03.2004 09:06 |
My respects to the indians for all the abuse they suffered but it seems like now that they've had more than enough, they feel offended about any slightly comment they make about them. Somehow at the last Grammy Awards, Outkast performed with with some back-up dancers dressed up in sexy indian outfits. Although they weren't too revealing, somehow a league anti-defamation for African Americans got extremely offended, and threatened to sue MTV. Although it's commonly seen in big urban areas to see minorities taking low paid jobs, there's about as many poor whites in America taking those jobs in small towns around the country where just about everyone is white. And to Jorge, I think you owe all Americans here an apology. Imagine if you were on a latino message board and you called everybody "a fuckin' spic". You may have a point about a lot of the things you said, and as another hispanic QZer I know for a fact that we have been victims of a lot of abuse by many of the American government administrations, as well as from American corporations who have pretty much "enslaved" and taken advantage of the low eployement rate in third world countries. Yet that is not a reason to label everybody here as a "greedy and selfish fuckin' gringo". Most people in this board regardelss of their nationality, race, or ethnicity respect others equally. |
| iGSM 20.03.2004 09:16 |
Phew, lucky I live in normal Australia.. *remembers the stolen generation and Eddie Mabo* Oh..oh yeah. |
| deleted user 20.03.2004 09:26 |
Excellent post Bullwinkle. |
| Saint Jiub 20.03.2004 23:07 |
1.29 % Hispanic population for a Queenzone apologist town of nearly 100,000 is nothing ... and the crime rate there is below average. Aurora IL is a town of just over 100,000 people of which 33% is Hispanic and its crime rate is horrid. I do believe the Italians and Poles came here legally a century ago. The issue is illegal immigration. Illegal immigrant workers are great! Any time an illegal threatens to get out of line - just threaten deportation and they become compliant again. Imagine if Hispanic immigration were to be legally increased to 500,000 or more people per year (provided that each immigrant gets a job) ... Oh wait, that will never happen because illegal immigration is great for business because second class "citizens" (illegal criminals) make excellent compliant employees. It is almost a form of slave labor. The illegal workers certainly have virtually no rights ... |
| Maz 21.03.2004 01:06 |
"1.29 % Hispanic population for a Queenzone apologist town of nearly 100,000 is nothing ..." I don't think that accounts for our neighboring town of which the majority of this Queenzone apologist's income has been derived from over the last 2 years. I do not claim that it exceeds 33%, but I think 2% is a little low. Before recent state budget cuts to social programs that helped immigrants and other lower income families, our tidy little income came from working closely with a varied amount of immigrants, including Mexicans, Eastern Europeans, and Africans, not all of which were legal. "I do believe the Italians and Poles came here legally a century ago." There weren't national laws that controlled immigration then, so in a sense every immigrant was legal. (Regions or states had long had laws aimed at controlling or intimidating immigrants, such as requiring higher taxes, etc) The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was one of the first attempts by the Feds to control immigration, but it wasn't until the Johnson-Reed Act of 1924 that immigration restrictions were set. This law was based on the 1890 Census and clearly favored northern Europeans over all other countries. But, history lesson aside, the point remains: Our attitudes over immigrants in 2004 are very similar to those in the late-nineteenth century. Only the face of the immigrant has changed. No one thing is going to change the issue of illegal immigration. You can pass laws to punish those that employ illegals (and you're right, many enter into virtual slavery when they come here), but as long as jobs are available, they'll come. You can try to improve the economy in their home country and remove the incentive to come here, but then people will complain that the US needs "to take care of their own" and shouldn't help other countries. I'm all for solving the issue of illegal immigration, but I reject reactionary thought that serves only to protect the dominant society from the perceived attack of change. And Jorge: "(a team in Washington exists with that name highly offensive(?))" Yes, it does. And plenty of Indians are upset by this. Your point, however, is clear; I was just trying to help with the language issue. As for the "fucking gringo" comment, I found it slightly humorous. The origins of the word "gringo" are laughable at best, and do not connote any negative stereotype like "wetback" or "spic" might. |
| Saffron Caribou 21.03.2004 01:18 |
In most Latin American countries, the word 'gringo' is more of a humourus connotation than negative. Green go = gringo After the green uniforms that the US military wore during the battles in Texas back in the Wild Wild West, I think. Excellent post btw Zeni. The whole world is full of immigrants, and race mixers. We multiply by the second. *buwahahha* Phew! Thank God I don't live in the US lol |
| Maz 21.03.2004 01:20 |
God, that's a lot up there. I tried to write in small paragraphs to make it readable, if that helps, Bull. |
| MexQueenFM 21.03.2004 01:27 |
the only thing i know, is that like with everything, there's good and bad stuff with immigration, some guys i know are in gangs and just do destruction, but on the other hand , some people come to work their asses off to support their family, honest people, and i really doubt american people will take the jobs immigrants do and I agree with Zeni, like always |
| Mr.Jingles 21.03.2004 11:48 |
Jesus, some people don't seem to understand that the whole crime stats have more to be with social status than race. Wherever there's poverty, there will be people willing to get involved in criminal activities to earn money, or are you forgetting that poor white people don't commit crimes as well? As far as I'm concerned, they do. Bullwinkle's post is just ignorant, because there were hundreds and even thousands or European immigrants coming to the U.S. everyday during the first half of the the XX century. Once they settled here, most of them were able to live humble yet honest lives, but there were many of them involved in criminal activities. There were plenty of mafias formed from different groups of immigrants including, Irish, Italians, Jewish, Polish, etc. Some of those still exist today. So as you can see, it'd be completely stupid to blame hispanics and blacks for all the crimes ever commited in this country. |
| Saint Jiub 22.03.2004 00:28 |
Using a search engine on "us immigration" I found that lawyers are busy chasing more than just ambulances ... I ignored those links and found these instead: link link link link link link link link link To the level-headed queenzone immigration apologist: I checked neighboring towns and all had Hispanic populations below 5% ... |
| Maz 22.03.2004 01:10 |
So no more than 5%? I prefer to think of that as more than triple your initial figure. I like to celebrate the small victories. |