| deleted user 26.02.2004 21:25 |
I've just returned from seeing the movie. First I'd like to say that I am still trying to process what I saw. I have no doubt it was a literal interpretation of the facts in the Bible. It was hard to take. Seeing the Lord beaten, and treated that way is not easy to see. The portrayal of Him was excellent. As was the movie. To think He went through that just to save my soul is incredible. Allowing Himself to endure the punishment, and eventually die on the cross is nothing less than astonishing. Many of the scenes with Mary were hart wrenching. She wanted to help her son, but couldn't do a thing to save him. Jesus said in the movie 'I am the way the truth and the light. No man comes to the Father but by me.' He laid down His life. But only because He did it. The Romans didn't take it. Niether did the Jews. He said 'I allow you to do these things to me because the Father allows it. It is a beautiful movie, and terrible at the same time. Brutal and loving. The true story of The Christ that is risen from the grave to save every one of us. If only we believe. |
| Mr.Jingles 26.02.2004 21:38 |
Have you ever watched 'Jesus of Nazareth' by Franco Zeffirelli, Matt? If so, what do you think of 'The Passion' compared to that one. |
| deleted user 26.02.2004 22:11 |
I really liked Jesus of Nazareth. That one goes through His whole life. So in that regard, I like it in a different way. They don't go in to as much detail about the last 12 hours of Christ's life. The Passion is all about that last 12 hours, and it is very brutal. I cried durring the movie tonight. One part moved me that far. Jesus of Nazareth makes me feel good. The Passion gives me renewed hope and faith:) |
| MexQueenFM 26.02.2004 22:55 |
I have to watch it, thanks Matt |
| geeksandgeeks 27.02.2004 16:12 |
As an atheist, i doubt it will have the same effect on me as it did on Matt if and when I eventually see it. I hate to see any human being tortured like that. I don't care if it's Jesus Christ or Joe Schmoe, it's wrong. The movie certainly reinforces THAT, if nothing else. It looks like it was well done. But having heard one of my best friends' reports of it, I'm not so sure I'll be able to stomach it. He had to be rushed out of the theater after 20 or 30 minutes, due to retching on the floor. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 17:48 |
I assume that since you are an atheist that you can disprove the existence of God? Perhaps you are more of an agnostic than atheist. |
| Flashman 27.02.2004 18:06 |
You aren't required to 'disprove' the existence of God to be an atheist Zeni. You simply refuse to acknowledge it, which is somewhat different. It can be argued against, but not disproved, just as those who do acknowledge his existence can never prove it to be so. I don't believe in such nonsense however, but I have no desire to be labelled as anything. Except perhaps Scoundrel and Coward, which I freely admit to being. |
| Lisser 27.02.2004 18:11 |
I can't wait to see it. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 18:15 |
"You simply refuse to acknowledge it, which is somewhat different." I don't quite see the difference. I think that refusing to acknowledge still falls into the agnostic catagory. Care to expand? "It can be argued against, but not disproved, just as those who do acknowledge his existence can never prove it to be so." I agree. But I think that most people that claim they don't believe in a god are actually agnostic and recognize the fact that they can never prove or disprove it. |
| Flashman 27.02.2004 18:20 |
Why must we be labelled so? I am happy going through life just being me. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 18:22 |
I'm not arguing for labels, but I hate seeing terms thrown around without due thought as to what they mean. |
| Flashman 27.02.2004 18:25 |
On the contrary, I know precisely what they mean. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 18:27 |
It is not you, oh great Flashy, that I was doubting. |
| Mr.Jingles 27.02.2004 18:28 |
Why label Mandy as agnostic if she never gave a hint that she believes in God. I've been talking to her for quite a while, and though she has told me that she's atheist, she has never made it seem like she believes in God or follows a certain kind of faith. Then again we have never discussed our own religion beliefs. |
| Flashman 27.02.2004 18:29 |
Well it better not be Zeni, that's all. You've made my 'Eyes Damned' counter increase now. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 18:32 |
It was only a matter of time, Flashy. |
| geeksandgeeks 27.02.2004 18:54 |
This conversation would be a perfect example of exponential decay for my math class. We have gotten bakc on the subject of Flashman's damning people's eyes, which always ends up with us all giggling like idiots :). Zeni, you don't have to prove anything to be an atheist, any more than the Christian camp has to prove anything. I don't believe there are any deities. I respect a person's right to believe so. All atheism means is that we deny the existence of a god. It doesn't mean we are intolerant, militant little berks who insist that we know God does not exist. By your logic, everyone is an agnostic. No one can prove anything. |
| Maz 27.02.2004 22:18 |
"By your logic, everyone is an agnostic. No one can prove anything." Wasn't my logic. I believe David Hume was the first to argue that point some 300+ years ago. |
| Antici...pation 28.02.2004 15:29 |
at my church, they were handing out tickets to see this movie... mom really wants to take dad, me and my brother to see it... im not really interested in it... |
| deleted user 28.02.2004 18:11 |
Just got back from seeing it - thought it was perfect. |
| deleted user 28.02.2004 19:30 |
I'm glad you think so Ali. And I'm sorry for before. I never had any problem with you at all. I was going through some crap. Not an exscuse, but I'm sorry. Matt |
| dragonzflame 28.02.2004 20:28 |
Just out of interest Matt, did you find anything anti-Semitic in it? Not that I think it probably is, it's just interesting to see if people who have seen films can pick what people get upset about. |
| deleted user 28.02.2004 21:40 |
Thanks, Matt - I am sorry that argument occured, too, but it is all in the past now. :^) |
| MamaQueen 28.02.2004 23:43 |
I'm not going to see it. My husband saw it and told me all about it. From what he told me Mel Gibson's Jesus would have died before being crucified. |
| deleted user 29.02.2004 00:09 |
No Dragon, there was nothing in that movie that made me feel that way at all. It was wright from the Bible. And I doubt that God is anti-Semitic. And don't forget that Jesus was God made flesh. He could withstand anything until it was time to finish. |
| Queenleaf 29.02.2004 10:02 |
I saw it on Wednesday (my computer is down that is why I am not on much now) and I did not enjoy it. But That was juswt it was too graphic for me I think. My mom heard an interview with the guy who played Jesus and she said in the flogging scene they were supposed to be hitting this board in stead of him but they hit him once, which hurt so bad he coulnd't say a word or tell them to stop, then they missed the board again and it tore about a foot long gash in his back. As for my beliefs, I believe in God but I choose the life of pleasure because I think it is better than heaven. I get so mad when pastors say that "salvation is free" yeah right but he wants your entire life devoted to him. |
| Saint Jiub 29.02.2004 11:42 |
Am I an athiest or agnostic? Here comes the cliche ... I don't know and I don't care. I am supposed to be doing taxes now while my wife is off galavanting at church. Nah this is my time. Maybe I'll do it later ... |
| Freddie-B 01.03.2004 07:21 |
Well, atheists don't believe in it, and Agnostics are undecided. If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer? Since neither can be done, by that reckoning, we're all agnostic. |
| Flashman 01.03.2004 12:36 |
I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I posted some days previously. |
| iron eagle 01.03.2004 18:32 |
enter the twilight zone................. ROME, Georgia (AP) -- Tickets at one movie theater screening Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" are being deemed decidedly unholy. The number 666, which many Christians recognize as the "mark of the beast," is appearing on movie tickets for Gibson's film at a Georgia theater, drawing complaints from some moviegoers. The machine that prints tickets assigned the number 666 as a prefix on all the tickets for the film, said Gary Smith, owner of the Movies at Berry Square in northwest Georgia. The 666 begins a series of numbers that are listed below the name of the movie, the date, time and price. "It's from our computer and it's absolutely a coincidence," Smith said. "It has nothing to do with the film company or any vendor. It's completely in our computer." In the Bible, the book of Revelation says 666 is the "number of the beast," usually interpreted as Satan or the Antichrist. Several patrons have made comments about the numbers, and one person who was uncomfortable having 666 on her ticket asked for a pass to be substituted for a ticket. "A lot of people have asked what the numbers mean, some said it seemed odd, some said it was inappropriate," said theater employee Erica Diaz. The movie, which opened Wednesday, is a bloody depiction of Christ's final hours and crucifixion. |
| Fenderek 02.03.2004 08:48 |
Can't understand how someone's death could save me... Wouldn't it be enough to just say- you're saved...? And did we understand anything from this 'example'...? Not really- this planet is becoming a big 'shithole' and we're killing or abusing each other, also in the name of this 'example'. This whole 'religion' thing is only dividing us all instead of bringimg peace and happiness... Don't you think there's something wrong here...? |
| Guy 02.03.2004 15:18 |
"If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer?" The word 'believe' doesn't reuquire any kind of proving. |
| deleted user 02.03.2004 16:21 |
I thought that the movie was surprisingly good. I thought that it would suck, but it didn't. So many people at my school are saying like they don't even know how to comment on it and it brought them to tears, and that everyone in their theater was crying. when I went to see it, the theater was dead silent. And even though none of it was in english for the most part you could tell what they were saying anyway. The beating was terrible I must admit, they make it look so real it's unbelieveable, my mother said that she looked over at me during the movie and i looked horrified. All in all it was really good I thought. |
| geeksandgeeks 02.03.2004 16:33 |
Okay, I finally went and saw it. Oh my God. I never want to see another crow again. That was the sickest thing I have ever seen in my life. People were retching in the aisles...literally! And I sure as hell felt like it! I walked out of there feeling sick to my stomach, and I definitely wasn't the only one. Okay, I accept that the poor man went through a lot of pain and agony, but that was a slasher film. That was one big long guilt-trip. |
| iron eagle 02.03.2004 16:45 |
>That was one big long guilt-trip. would you have expected less from a good catholic like Gibson???? the pope will be soo proud to here this *LOL* |
| MexQueenFM 02.03.2004 16:46 |
well, Christ went thru all that (church people told me, i ain't sure about this), so I'm glad Gibson showed it |
| The Real Wizard 02.03.2004 17:11 |
"And don't forget that Jesus was God made flesh. He could withstand anything until it was time to finish." Oh boy... is this where I enter the conversation? *awaits smartass comment from Bullwinkle and 300-year-old Catholic lesson from Krowa* "I get so mad when pastors say that "salvation is free" yeah right but he wants your entire life devoted to him." And, he wants your money. :) "The number 666, which many Christians recognize as the "mark of the beast," is appearing on movie tickets for Gibson's film at a Georgia theater, drawing complaints from some moviegoers." From a historical point of view, the devil wasn't even a thought in Jesus' time. Ancient Judaism had no beliefs of the devil. Christianity (which is derivative of Judaism) introduced/created the devil to be the Christian antithesis in the early second century. So with that in mind, any Christian with this knowledge who is still intimidated or angered by a three 6's situated beside one another should have nothing to worry about, as it should have no direct relationship with their faith. Regardless of historical facts, faith shouldn't be about what you're against... it should be about what "good" you believe in. |
| The Real Wizard 02.03.2004 17:18 |
"This whole 'religion' thing is only dividing us all instead of bringimg peace and happiness... Don't you think there's something wrong here...?" Thanks for your efforts, Fenderek. But here is not the place to find many level-headed and sane people who want to discuss this with you. And you know what? The real world isn't too much different. Be happy you're one of the smart ones. Most religious people have left their intelligence at church (in the collection plate?). "The word 'believe' doesn't reuquire any kind of proving." Correct, but science will cut you to shreds for that one. "That was one big long guilt-trip." I didn't have to see the film to know that would be the underlying message. :) Oopsie, seems as though I have entered the topic. |
| inu-liger 02.03.2004 17:40 |
Well, the movie is #1 in the U.S. now. |
| deleted user 02.03.2004 19:05 |
I'm happy to have contributed in getting it to #1. I shall be seeing it again over the weekend. |
| Mr.Jingles 02.03.2004 19:24 |
The whole movie should have been about Jesus' entire life, his philosophy, his thoughts. Jesus said that the main commandment was to love and respect each other, and that's far more valuable to learn than all the pain and suffering that he went through the last 12 hours of his life. Whether you're christian or not you can't deny that there's a very important lesson to be learned from what he taught. Too bad that so many so called "christians" completely misunderstood Jesus point of view, and instead they killed and spread hatred towards non-christians and people who did not wish to convert to christianity. |
| MexQueenFM 02.03.2004 19:25 |
I really wanna see the movie, but it's been sold out, i'll try again this weekend |
| Krowa003 03.03.2004 00:13 |
*awaits smartass comment from Bullwinkle and 300-year-old Catholic lesson from Krowa* Believe it or not, I actually chuckled when I read this. :-) By the way, great movie. It is not a movie that is to entertain us, but rather something that we are to experience. Whether you are a Christian or not, this film shows believers and non-believers what are the fundamental points of the Christian faith - love and sacrifice. |
| The Real Wizard 03.03.2004 00:21 |
"Jesus said that the main commandment was to love and respect each other, and that's far more valuable to learn than all the pain and suffering that he went through the last 12 hours of his life." Agreed. "Whether you're christian or not you can't deny that there's a very important lesson to be learned from what he taught. Too bad that so many so called "christians" completely misunderstood Jesus point of view, and instead they killed and spread hatred towards non-christians and people who did not wish to convert to christianity." Right on. From what I've heard, this movie seems to be theologically correct, even according to the real right-wing philosophers and theologans. Good post, Jingles. "Whether you are a Christian or not, this film shows believers and non-believers what are the fundamental points of the Christian faith - love and sacrifice." I agree with "love", but could you elaborate on the "sacrifice" aspect? It really depends on what branch of Christian faith you're talking about... there are so many divisions, and so many interpretations of that. |
| Guy 03.03.2004 00:31 |
"Correct, but science will cut you to shreds for that one." There's nothing I can do about it. Scholars will always try to disprove things that were written in the bible such as miracles, but I never saw anyone who believes in God actually stops believing after they published their researches... You see, their arguements don't affect people's beliefs, they only make the atheists' comments "stronger", and I don't really care =) |
| Maz 03.03.2004 00:37 |
You know, it is not necessary that science contradict or dispell Christian beliefs. Sure, there are some people that would choose to interpret the Bible in a very literal way, and here, science can have a field day. But others might look at the existential truth of the Bible or Jesus' teachings, and here, science is useless. There are many things we all believe in that science can never fully measure (love, politics, etc). |
| Krowa003 03.03.2004 01:08 |
"I agree with "love", but could you elaborate on the "sacrifice" aspect? It really depends on what branch of Christian faith you're talking about... there are so many divisions, and so many interpretations of that." Well, in the gospels, Christ's crusifixion is an obvious sacrifce of himself. I do not know about other Christian divisions, but as a Roman Catholic, I can say that sacrificing your own inner desires, which may at times be immoral, for the common good of the community. A very basic example of this would be not stealing. Although stealing may provide us with instant gratification, it is obviously immoral and not good for the entire community. |
| Saint Jiub 03.03.2004 01:49 |
I'm sorry to diappoint Guitar Hero, but I don't really have much to say, and any anti-religion rants I might have really do not have much to do with to do with Mel Gibson or the movie. Plus I did not find Guitar Hero's comments to be very controversial. Plus I'm tired ... |
| Daburcor? 03.03.2004 02:45 |
Well, It appears I will be going to see this movie tomorrow night and I don't have to pay! :D |
| Fenderek 03.03.2004 09:00 |
< Sometimes I like playing 'Don Kichote'...:) Yeah, I know that- can't understand it though... We're ready to kill in the name of it yet we're not ready to discuss it and look at it with any criticism.. .Are that many of us fanatics...? |
| Mr. Scully 03.03.2004 10:32 |
As I don't believe in God, I somehow prefer Monty Python's excellent and superb Life Of Brian than this kind of movies... |
| The Real Wizard 03.03.2004 13:54 |
"I can say that sacrificing your own inner desires, which may at times be immoral, for the common good of the community. A very basic example of this would be not stealing. Although stealing may provide us with instant gratification, it is obviously immoral and not good for the entire community." Well, of course... but from a more general point of view, it all comes down the person, and what they consider to be moral or immoral. In terms of stealing in specific, you don't need religion to tell you it's wrong. To most people it's rather common sense. :) That's more of a common courtesy and conscience thing than a religious thing. |
| Catgoddess 03.03.2004 14:27 |
It always worried me that people needed to be threatened with eternal burning in hell in order for them to be good. Don't get religeon. |
| iron eagle 03.03.2004 15:00 |
anyone catch the composers interview yet? apparantly satan appeared to him while he was composing the music for the film........ its all getting massively hysterical to me... sudden enlightenment-reaffirmations-and so on even better for me is the merchandise line being touted now..... money changers in the temple dont cha think??? |
| Daburcor? 03.03.2004 15:56 |
Hey, About how long is this movie? |
| deleted user 03.03.2004 16:04 |
2 hours, 10 minutes :) |
| geeksandgeeks 03.03.2004 16:04 |
it's 2 hours 6 minutes. It feels much longer when you spend the full time trying not to retch. |
| Daburcor? 03.03.2004 16:09 |
Well, That's not too long at all! I SHOULD be going to see it later tonight, And am actually quite excited to see it! I'm hyper curious! :D |
| deleted user 03.03.2004 16:40 |
This is just a movie. And just about every 'good' movie I have seen sells mechandise. But anything you can find to complain about, feel free. |
| iron eagle 03.03.2004 16:45 |
NAIL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Passion Nail ™ pendants feature Isaiah 53:5 inscribed on the side. They are available in two lengths-1 7/8" and 2 5/8"- and come on a 24” leather cord. Nail 1 7/8" Pendant leather/pewter $12.99 SPCN 510-327-7964 Nail 2 5/8" Pendant leather/pewter $16.99 SPCN 510-327-7972 "The Passion" by Tyndale Price: $24.99 Binding: Hardcover w/jacket Trim Size: 8 3/4 x 11 1/4 ISBN: 0-8423-7362-4 so misleading too-- Tyndale Publishing not Tyndale the person |
| deleted user 03.03.2004 16:50 |
So. What's your point? What about the Lord Of The Rings movies, or Rocky.....t-shits, books, games the list goes on. link link link |
| Daburcor? 03.03.2004 17:30 |
Damn... I don't get to go tonight... *pouts* |
| Maz 03.03.2004 17:36 |
They trademarked "The Passion Nail"? |
| iron eagle 03.03.2004 17:37 |
>But anything you can find to complain about, feel free. >So. What's your point? what? having another bad day matt? you want to take my postings as complaints so be it-- wouldnt be the first time i doubt it will be the last..... |
| iron eagle 03.03.2004 17:39 |
yes new and improved they did i find it a bit ironic if not a bit hypocritical--- but i really should not say that...... i may get chastised by the pious ones... |
| deleted user 03.03.2004 17:40 |
They have made things like that for years. Good grief people! Holy cow! I just saw a cross necklace at a store! WOW! |
| deleted user 03.03.2004 17:47 |
But it would be fine if they made Queer Eye For The Straight Guy action figures. Do you not understand that this is only a movie? It is not reality tv for pete's sake. It is a movie depicting the end of Christ's life. And all you can do is bash it because you have some odd agenda against God or something. So they merchandise it. So what? |
| Krowa003 03.03.2004 19:10 |
The following articles have appeared in People Magazine the March 8, 2004 edition: "Gibson has joked that there will be no fast food tie-ins. But seeking to spread the word - and the Word - plenty of groups have created licensed products for 'The Passion'. How to keep the trinkets tasteful? Says jewelry marketer Dwight Robinson, 'We talked to religious leaders to see if we are conveying the same thing they hope to share with their churches.'" "Santa Ana, Calif., designer Bob Siemon (who helped popularize 'What Would Jesus Do' bracelets) is cranking out 5,000 pewter nail pendants a day. Also for sale: charms that read 'Passion' in Aramaic." Clearly, many faithful people are using this movie to inspire and renew the faith among its parishioners. It is no surprise to me that they are using this sort of a marketing strategy. After all, in today's society where everything moves so quickly, and people have less time and as a result shorter attention spans, people have found new ways to grab attention. And especially something like religion, where people are moving away from it, drastic marketing campaigns have risen. |
| iron eagle 03.03.2004 19:22 |
>And all you can do is bash it because you have some odd agenda against God or something. So they merchandise it. So what? shows how little comprehension you have had with any my posts-and thank you for letting me know i have an odd agenda with god-- i didnt know that-- i will discuss that with him tonight when i say my prayers... i do wonder why you had to compare to queer eye-- was that a little untintentional jab?? or did you think i can only compare things to queer stuff?? merchandising--give me a break-- this movie is not indian jones-or sweet home alabama-star wars-bridges of madison county and so on--- its subject matter itself- and where it 'supposedly' came from would dictate that at the very least IMO out of respect for said book and/or said person they would keep it from becoming a cash making cow on the verge of idolatry-example #3 below-- Idolatry Image-worship or divine honour paid to any created object. Paul describes the origin of idolatry in Rom. 1:21-25: men forsook God, and sank into ignorance and moral corruption (1:28). The forms of idolatry are, (1.) Fetishism, or the worship of trees, rivers, hills, stones, etc. (2.) Nature worship, the worship of the sun, moon, and stars, as the supposed powers of nature. (3.) Hero worship, the worship of deceased ancestors, or of heroes. In Scripture, idolatry is regarded as of heathen origin, |
| Saint Jiub 03.03.2004 21:54 |
I would see no issue with a pendant or cross saying "passion", but wearing an item that resembles a weapon and glorifies graphically portraying items of torture and murder ... is not that kind of sick? I am sure I am missing the point, but (warning - incoming cheap shot) why should I listen to moralizing from a bootleg tree thief? "In terms of stealing in specific, you don't need religion to tell you it's wrong. To most people it's rather common sense. :) That's more of a common courtesy and conscience thing than a religious thing." "It always worried me that people needed to be threatened with eternal burning in hell in order for them to be good. Don't get religeon." I agree with the above to quotes. Yep - Much of what is in the bible is based on common sense (but alot of it is not). I have always felt I am as moral as most christians. I feel you do not have to believe in God to be a good person. I don't understand how love of a god can be genuine if it is obtained under threat of eternal damnation. Why should I be destined to eternal damnation along side Hitler for refusing to believe, when I have otherwise obeyed the golden rule? |
| Saint Jiub 03.03.2004 22:02 |
Speaking of Monty Python, has anyone heard a song from "the contractual obligation album" based on an old christian hymn? It goes something like this: All things cruel and dangerous All creatures short and squat All things rude and nasty The LORD doth made a lot Each stinging little hornet Each beastly squeezing squid Who made the poison ivy? Who made them all? HE did etc... hilarious |
| Krowa003 04.03.2004 00:53 |
"I don't understand how love of a god can be genuine if it is obtained under threat of eternal damnation. Why should I be destined to eternal damnation along side Hitler for refusing to believe, when I have otherwise obeyed the golden rule?" On the contrary. Christianity preaches eternal salvation. That is why the religion took of so well with many converts because people were shown a "light at the end of the tunnel". Christ showed people that God is a God of Love. |
| Richard Orchard 04.03.2004 06:01 |
hi, I am an athiest, and i think the movie was amazing! REally worth watching. |
| Krizzy 04.03.2004 12:16 |
Mel Gibson is a clever man to go up to bat against the Hollywood stereotypes of the religious movies. He is also taking a lot of stick about the movie being anti-semitic, however I will not see it in the movies I would prefer to rent it and see it with my family, something this personal should be shared privately so one can form their own opinions. I am not a religious person but I would rather form my own opinion only after I have seen the movie. This movie has created a deep seated debate about Christianity and Judaism. Mel Gibson's own father believes that the Holocaust never happened, which is sad since there is so much overwhelming evidence that it indeed happened. Still he is entitled to his own opinion on the matter. The focus should be on the film itself which is as Gibson has stated repeatedly his own ideas on the last days of Christ. Kriz ;o) |
| The Real Wizard 04.03.2004 14:47 |
"It always worried me that people needed to be threatened with eternal burning in hell in order for them to be good. Don't get religeon." There is plenty of good in religion. Remember, religion is what people make it. You don't have to do what someone else tells you to do in order to be a faithful person. That includes being threatened into your faith. Not everyone's faith is based on this kind of practice; but I pity those whose faith is. "And especially something like religion, where people are moving away from it, drastic marketing campaigns have risen." Yep, people are becoming too smart to be scared into their faith by priests, so now we have to move to the next level. God bless America. Iron Eagle: Wonderful attempts at adding sanity to a potential religious debate... but my advice is to stop trying. It's been established that QZ is not the place to have an intellectual discussion involving religion. Most people here are either athiests (which is perfectly acceptable), or are so set in their faith that their mind cannot open up to any alternative (and you know what I'd like to say after that one). |
| Saint Jiub 04.03.2004 23:26 |
I don't know why I spoke up in this topic, I would rather pretend that religion did not exist. So many of the religious are hypocrits, or they pity you or look at you like you're nuts when they find out you are not a believer |
| Fenderek 05.03.2004 09:06 |
< DITTO |
| deleted user 05.03.2004 10:25 |
'So many of the religious are hypocrits, or they pity you or look at you like you're nuts when they find out you are not a believer' It sickens me that some of them are like that. We are all not that way. And I think that those people are keeping others from knowing the truth about Christianity, and what it really means. We as Christians are supposed to be accepting of everyone no matter what the differences are between us. As Christ was. We are to live as He did. Which means loving eachother, and following the teachings of the bible. |
| The Real Wizard 05.03.2004 12:19 |
"Which means loving eachother, and following the teachings of the bible." As long as you don't take most of the stories literally. There's usually a lesson underneath a story, and that's what should count. Remember, the stories were written in a time when almost everything written was fiction. First and second century people were not literal people like we are now. They took things figuratively - they focused on the person, and not the story itself. |
| geeksandgeeks 05.03.2004 18:01 |
Okay, yes, it WAS a very interesting movie... But come on, you know they're going a bit overboard when the teenagers who are workingthere are talking about handing out sick bags to the viewers. God, I couldn't believe the reactions, no one was paralyzed to their seats, but there was puke all over the floor and that chick in front of me probably won't sleep for a year. |
| deleted user 05.03.2004 18:47 |
Talk about beating a dead horse. |
| deleted user 05.03.2004 18:52 |
Indeed. |
| geeksandgeeks 05.03.2004 19:14 |
I probably will never, ever say this again, but...Charles Krauthammer actually wrote a good column today (and yes, he went a bit overboard as well on the whole righteousness thing), and I recommend that you read it. If you can find it...I can't seem to...>:( |
| iGSM 06.03.2004 00:59 |
I'm hopefully going to see this tonight...should be a good movie judging by a lot of peoples opinions etc... |
| MexQueenFM 06.03.2004 22:09 |
I saw the movie tonight, it was a great movie, it gave me back my faith, to see what Jesus went thru, what He passed thru for us, I love this movie |
| deleted user 07.03.2004 02:18 |
that is awsome Mex :) |
| Daburcor? 07.03.2004 03:32 |
Well, I have finally seen this movie! As a matter of fact, I only got home a few hours ago. Great movie if I do say so myself. Now for me to leave this topic for good, and NOT join in on the arguments and the like. ;) |
| MsMercury01 08.03.2004 00:34 |
I might rent it when it comes out on video/dvd. I don't really care about it one way or another. I'm pagan. |
| Saffron Caribou 09.03.2004 23:11 |
Wow well it seems that most of the people here liked the film, except for Mandy, heheh she already told me about it anyways. The film hasn't been released here yet. It will be released here on the 25th. I can't wait to see it. I've been reading some of the posts here, and I'd like to add my 2 cents. When it comes to the question of "Who killed Jesus?" I believe that there are three culprits. 1. Caiphas, the Jewish High Priest. Caiphas felt threatened by Jesus, and his message. Also by the threat of destroying the temple, and rising it again after three days. Therefore, he felt that the only way to get rid of Jesus was to plot his death. He egged the public on to condenm Jesus. This proves that the Jewish populace of the time were not the ones that killed Jesus. It was the personal and political purposes of The Sanhedrin of that time. During the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church used to organise plays around the country side in order to teach villagers how to read, and to teach them about their faith. This is when the 'Passion Play' originated. By that time, the Crusades were underway, and Christians were ticked off at Muslims and Jews. Therefore, the Passion Plays started to portray Jews as savages desperatetly wanting Jesus to be crucified, instead of explaining the whole story. This is were the whole concept of anti-Semitism came about. I may be wrong on this, but this is what I think this came about. 2. Pilate, the Roman governor. Oh sheesh. The gospels potrayed Pilate as a meek, and humble individal that felt pity towards the crowds decision to have Jesus killed. This is not true. Historians had discovered Pilate to be a corrupt, blood thirsty and lousy governor. In fact, Pilate hated governing over Cesarea. Although the gospels had indicated that he washed his hands of Christ's blood, he was still doing his job. If he was really a meek individual, he should've not sent Christ to be killed. Pilate wanted to be left in peace over the Jesus problem, so that's why he sent Christ to be killed. 3. Of course, Jesus. His mission was to spread the good news, and to be the sacrificial lamb for the sins of mankind. Jesus knew what he was doing, and what he was going to do to wash the sins of the world with his blood. Therefore, mission completed. It's good to know different sides of the story eh? :D About taking The Bible literaly, the Catholic Church had said that it shouldn't be taking each word of The Bible as it is. Again, God didn't write these books. Supposedly it was the inspiration from the Holy Spirit that the authors wrote these scriptures. |
| Saffron Caribou 09.03.2004 23:34 |
BTW, hehehe. Life of Brian is a great film! :D The perfect film to criticise the church, and religious zealots. This is real heresy at its finest! :D Also, has anyone seen Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ"? I saw it this weekend on Bravo. Wow, impressive film. I haven't read the novel of this film though, but it seems to shed a light to a more human Jesus, than the messianic figure. I remember when the film was banned back in the late 80's. Still if only people read the disclaimer at the beginning of the film instead of accusing the author of the book for being blasphemous. Also, who knew that Judas had a Brooklyn accent and red hair. ;) :P |
| Bob The Shrek 10.03.2004 01:16 |
I have seen news stories of people retching in the cinema and coming out in floods of tears at 'His' sacrifice - I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it. |
| Fenderek 10.03.2004 08:50 |
Bob the Shrek>> good point... |
| deleted user 12.03.2004 09:04 |
'I have seen news stories of people retching in the cinema and coming out in floods of tears at 'His' sacrifice - I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it. ' Maybe it's because the guy on the beach wasn't the Son of God. |
| deleted user 12.03.2004 09:11 |
'I have seen news stories of people retching in the cinema and coming out in floods of tears at 'His' sacrifice - I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it.' Maybe thats because the guy on the beach wasn't the Son of God. |
| Fenderek 12.03.2004 12:09 |
<<'I have seen news stories of people retching in the cinema and coming out in floods of tears at 'His' sacrifice - I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it.' Maybe thats because the guy on the beach wasn't the Son of God.>> Bollocks We're all God's children, aren't we...? What's the difference if it's Messiah who is tortured and killed or if it's a fellow man who's suffering...? Are you trying to say that our lives or feelings aren't important or AS important... Do you think God wants us to cry for millions of years because of Jesus' suffering and forget about ourselves, about suffering of fellow men...? Wow, I start to like this religion even more....... |
| Fenderek 12.03.2004 12:16 |
<<'I have seen news stories of people retching in the cinema and coming out in floods of tears at 'His' sacrifice - I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it.' Maybe thats because the guy on the beach wasn't the Son of God.>> Bollocks We're all God's children, aren't we...? What's the difference if it's Messiah who is tortured and killed or if it's a fellow man who's suffering...? Are you trying to say that our lives or feelings aren't important or AS important... Do you think God wants us to cry for millions of years because of Jesus' suffering and forget about ourselves, about suffering of fellow men...? Wow, I start to like this religion even more....... |
| geeksandgeeks 12.03.2004 16:16 |
"Caiphas, the Jewish High Priest" And his sidekick, Annas. |
| deleted user 12.03.2004 16:20 |
'I wonder if they reacted the same to the scene of the soldier on the beach, his stomach open & screaming for his momma, in Saving Private Ryan - I doubt it.' Maybe because he wasn't the Son of God. |
| Bob The Shrek 12.03.2004 19:34 |
"Maybe because he wasn't the Son of God. " Neither is Jim Caviezel - he is just an actor too. |
| iron eagle 18.03.2004 18:02 |
STATESBURO, Ga. -- A couple got in such a heated argument after seeing "The Passion of the Christ" that they were arrested for fighting. The two left the theater debating whether God the Father in the Holy Trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit was in human form or spiritual. When police arrived at their home, the wife had ripped her husband's shirt, and he had punched a hole in the sheet rock near the stairs. "It was the dumbest thing we've ever done," said 34-year-old Melissa Davidson. She and her husband, 33-year-old Sean Davidson, were charged with simple battery March 11. They were taken to the jail, booked and then released on $1,000 bonds, said Gene McDaniel, Bulloch County chief deputy. "Really, it was kind of a pitiful thing, to go to a movie like that and fight about it. I think they missed the point," McDaniel said. "That's generally not been the response to that movie." A police report said Melissa Davidson suffered injuries on her left arm and face, while Sean Davidson had a scissor stab on his hand and his shirt was ripped off. Melissa Davidson acknowledged she had a scratch but said there was no scissor injury. "We both called the law on each other," she said. "It was one of those stupid things. We were arguing over a point of religion." The couple has been married for 10 years and had never been in an argument like that before, she said. "We're each other's best friends. Sometimes people get stupid," she said. |
| deleted user 18.03.2004 18:37 |
'...Sometimes people get stupid.....' No kidding. |
| geeksandgeeks 18.03.2004 21:33 |
Well, we can't blame the movie for the fact that people are morons. |
| Freddie-B 19.03.2004 08:03 |
Who killed Jesus? I think we all did, that's the point. That's why it's Gibson's hands that nail him to the cross-because he put him there, as did we all. Well, that's if you're a believer. I don't know about religion and all that, I think Roger Taylor certainly had it right when he said it fucked people up, because it does, big time. But it gives them hope as well, and if it can give people who have nothing something, then it must be worthwhile. I, for one, am very eager to see this film, because I think it will be a really good one. It's the oldest and greatest story of all time, and who cares if it's true or not, it's got so much symbolism and moral that I don't think any of us can afford to ignore it. |
| deleted user 19.03.2004 08:07 |
Well said Fred :) |
| Freddie-B 19.03.2004 08:14 |
Oh yeah, Does it have subtitles yet? |
| deleted user 19.03.2004 08:16 |
When I saw it it did. But that won't bother you. It's very well done. |
| Freddie-B 19.03.2004 08:19 |
Actually, I'm quite relieved. I already know the story, obviously, but it'll be good to have a better understanding of it I think. When I first heard about it, I was told it was 4 hours long without subtitles, but I still would have gone to see it, so now that it's 2 hours with subtitles I'll definitely be there. |
| bolan 19.03.2004 09:34 |
I haven't seen it and would love to except it is a 18 rating in England and I am only 15. I only want to see it for the production though, not for religious insruction or the fact that too much love killed him!! I will stick to the Buddha thanks very much And remember-dudes in tight whight pants are hot and deserve a good fucking |
| deleted user 19.03.2004 09:52 |
Good post, Paul. And yes, it does have subtitles. I think if you do like this story, you will enjoy it a lot. I saw it twice and probably would see it again. |
| Freddie-B 26.04.2004 13:14 |
Sorry to harp on about this (although I saw it the other day, and was impressed on many levels, none of which I will bore you with now) but I just re-read the post, and realised that I didn't answer back when I could have. So, I posted..... Well, atheists don't believe in it, and Agnostics are undecided. If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer? Since neither can be done, by that reckoning, we're all agnostic. ----------------------------------------------------- To which Guy wrote this reply: "If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer?" The word 'believe' doesn't reuquire any kind of proving. --------------------------------------------------------- I'd just like to reply with: That's true, and Zeni had said that if you say you're an atheist that means you can disprove the existence of God. It's a completely daft argument anyway, that's what I wanted to say, if you go by those rules we're all agnostic and that's not true either so we should stick to what we believe in. Sorry, I'm rambling now. |
| geeksandgeeks 26.04.2004 15:57 |
Freddie-B wrote: Sorry to harp on about this (although I saw it the other day, and was impressed on many levels, none of which I will bore you with now) but I just re-read the post, and realised that I didn't answer back when I could have. So, I posted..... Well, atheists don't believe in it, and Agnostics are undecided. If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer? Since neither can be done, by that reckoning, we're all agnostic. ----------------------------------------------------- To which Guy wrote this reply: "If you've got to disprove the existence of God to be an athesist, haven't you got to prove the existence of God to be a believer?" The word 'believe' doesn't reuquire any kind of proving. --------------------------------------------------------- I'd just like to reply with: That's true, and Zeni had said that if you say you're an atheist that means you can disprove the existence of God. It's a completely daft argument anyway, that's what I wanted to say, if you go by those rules we're all agnostic and that's not true either so we should stick to what we believe in. Sorry, I'm rambling now.Thank you. This is what we've been trying to say all along. |
| Freddie-B 27.04.2004 08:32 |
I saw the film anyway, and thought it was very good. I also thought it wasn't in the slightest bit anti-semitic, which relieved me. |
| Mr.Jingles 27.04.2004 10:41 |
I for once don't believe in the Bible (especially the Old Testament) because it's so full of contradictions that it's obvious that it's not "God's word" but the word of someone who wants people to believe that it's indeed God's word. I believe in God because I believe that the way the living beings in this planet, nature, earth, and the universe work in such a prefectly organized way that to me all that stuff just couldn't have come out of nowhere and spontaneously be there and working for a purpose. Yet still there are too many doubts and too many questions to be answered that I could not possibly follow a certain religion or faith. So perhaps that's why I'm mostly an agnostic. I'm not 100% sure if Jesus was the son of God, but a big part of me believes that he was. What people have to keep in mind is that Jesus never told people... "I am the son of God, and therefore you should fight, torture, abuse, opress and kill everyone who doesn't believe in me". Jesus advocated for peace, compassion, love and respect even towards those who hated us the most. Sadly many so called "christians" like Jerry Falwell don't believe so and they think that all non-christians are wrong, and everyone else will go to hell for "supossedely" not following Jesus. Falwell is not the only one, and it sickens me to think that there are many religious freaks like Sean Hannity, and Ann Coulter who think that all Muslims are evil and we should expel every single muslim out of this country unless they're willing to convert to christianity. Not only that, but they also think that we should invade their countries and convert them to christianity. And we call Muslims religious freaks? The truth is that there are about as many Muslims who advocate for violence and revenge against christians, as there are christians who advocate the same towards Muslims. |
| Freddie-B 28.04.2004 08:01 |
Amen to that!! I totally agree that the world couldn't have just accidentally happened, nobody seems to take this argument seriously down my way, but the facts are all there to suggest it's more than a coincidence! Anyway, great post-and good point about the fact that whatever his pros and cons might have been, Jesus advocated peace and love and there's a lot to be said for that. |
| Fenderek 28.04.2004 08:49 |
"Jesus advocated for peace, compassion, love and respect even towards those who hated us the most" And that just shows how little did we (as humanity) understand this, for it was / still is mostly the RELIGION that divides us, causes wars, etc... Anyway: how come this topic is still alive...?:) |