| Mr.Jingles 25.02.2004 10:30 |
How could not someone love Freddie, his voice, his showmanship, his songs, and everything else. Yet it seems like a lot of Queen fans prefer to ignore that behind this great man there were 3 other guys just about as talented as himself. I feel like Brian, Roger, and John are very underestimated to some fans. Freddie was a very important part of Queen, and there's no doubt that Queen couldn't carry on as normal after his death. But whether it was him or any other member of the band who passed away it would be too hard (and pehaps impossible) to keep going. Even Freddie himself might not want to carry on with the band without any of the other members of Queen. Just look at all the songs each one of them wrote. There were at least 3 huge worldwide hits written by each individual member. The influence of each member of Queen helped created a balance within the band that made Queen one of the greatest bands of all time. Not even the Beatles (hint. Ringo) had the contribution of each and every single band member to make the band so great. |
| Sebastian 25.02.2004 10:59 |
I agree that: Roger & Brian --> NOT Queen Roger & John --> NOT Queen Roger & Freddie --> NOT Queen Brian & John --> NOT Queen Brian & Freddie --> NOT Queen John & Freddie --> NOT Queen Roger & Brian & Freddie --> NOT Queen Roger & Brian & John --> NOT Queen Roger & Freddie & John --> NOT Queen Brian & Freddie & John --> NOT Queen Of course there can be an odd "Queen" song with just three people ('One Year Of Love', 'Action This Day', 'Sleeping On The Sidewalk', 'Nevermore'...) but not a whole album or tour. |
| roland 25.02.2004 11:05 |
yes, i think you're right. i think everyone of them was able to write good songs, and each one of them had one huge hit, which is known everywhere you go Brian - We Will Rock YOu Freddie- We Are The Champions Roger - Radio Ga Ga John - Another One Bites The Dust but anyway, I#m not a queen fan at all, i call myself a freddie fan. so it comes that i don't listen to songs brian or john sung, but if freddie sings songs from them i like it. but i think, sorry my friends, queen wouldn't be so damaged with a dead Roger or John. it maybe that they had their own style of playing their instruments, but a non-die-hard-fan wouldn't even recognize it, just my opinion, but i simply think freddie was most important (and famous/popular). |
| pma 25.02.2004 11:09 |
Spike Edney --> Queen |
| roland 25.02.2004 11:10 |
who's spike etney? |
| Azmandaman 25.02.2004 11:11 |
Oh come on Thats a lil harsh dont you think>? I mean as FREDDIE once stated he is 25% of Queen. so if it were without Freddie surely it will still be 75% of Queen if not the full force. I hate it when people get shallow and criticise this and that is not pure etc...lol! although it was from the original plot. And som of you marvel at a pop star beyonce to star in a Queen movie lol! and a westend musical thing,,, but still you go back to the fact that Brian Roger and Deacon is no longer deserve their own band title when they are together lol! I see Queen like a meteorite force a ball of fire. Freddie is da front man taking the heat of the speed.And in the end he was first to rightly dissolved out of the rest. dont take this wrong guys ya.. but Freddie past away because he shines with the up most heat of greatness. at his level he forgets that Life is no more than a candle wax. and if you are burning that fast living the ultimate life of a candle you are first to fade away. God rest Bulsaras' soul! Big up! |
| Sebastian 25.02.2004 11:23 |
I don't think Fred was much more important than the others, that's something ambiguous. But what you can measure is that the most complex songs, the most complex arrangements (of course more complex isn't neccesarily "better") were by him. Note that in ten albums out of fifteen (without compilations or live things) he was the major songwriter, and in other three he had a tie with Brian. What is "absolute" or provable, is that most hits were written by him. Let's see their top 10 singles in the UK and who wrote and arranged them: -------- #1: Bohemian Rhapsody --> Freddie, Freddie Days Of Our Lives --> Roger, Queen (in fact they four programmed the keyboards) Under Pressure --> Freddie & David, Queen&Bowie Innuendo --> Freddie(music&lyrics)&Roger(lyrics), Queen(-John + Dave Richards & Steve Howe) ------- #2: Crazy Little Thing --> Freddie, Queen Flick Of The Wrist/Killer Queen --> Freddie-Freddie, Freddie-Queen Heaven For Everyone--> Roger, Brian&Roger&John&DavidRichards Somebody To Love--> Freddie, Freddie We Are The Champions--> Freddie, Freddie We Will Rock You--> Brian, Brian Radio Ga Ga --> Roger, Freddie ------ #3: A Kind Of Magic --> Roger, Freddie I Want It All --> Brian, Queen I Want To Break Free --> John, Freddie ------ #6: A Winter's Tale --> Freddie, Queen It's A Hard Life --> Freddie, Freddie ---- #7: Another One Bites The Dust --> John, John Breakthru --> Freddie&Roger, Queen One Vision --> Roger&Brian, Freddie (mainly) You're My Best Friend --> John, John ---- #9: Don't Stop Me Now --> Freddie, Freddie Let Me Live --> ? (Fred&Roger? Roger? Freddie?), Queen --- #10: Flash --> Brian, Brian Seven Seas Of Rhye --> Freddie, Freddie ------- Also think something: why was You're My Best Friend a top ten hit? just because it was nice? No way. If some new band released it, it could be equally nice but not a top ten. Why it was a top ten? Because the band was famous, and why was it so famous? Because of Bo Rhap, Killer Queen and Seven Seas, three top tens. And who wrote them? I of course don't mean Fred was much more important than the rest, but there are some things you can measure and count. Finally, in my opinion Fred was just 12.5% of Queen. Each one was. The other 50% was the force that they all four had together. So if anyone of them isn't there the percentage (in my opinion) is reduced by 62.5%. A person without 62.5% of his blood dies. So, if there isn't the four of them there's no Queen for me. As I said, it's ok for one or two songs per album, because all of them produced the tracks and aproved them and etc. But not a full album or tour of just two or three former Queen members. That's not Queen, no way (and I don't mean legally, I mean ethically) |
| roland 25.02.2004 11:28 |
you're dissing you're my bst friend. it's a nice song, and yes of course it was top ten cause queen were famous, but that's with every song so. |
| Sebastian 25.02.2004 11:34 |
Yeah, of course Bo Rhap wouldn't have the same success if the band wasn't already famous. What was famous for? Killer Queen. But it wouldn't be such a big hit if the band wasn't at least partially famous because of their top ten ('7 Seas'). And who wrote those three songs? |
| Robin 25.02.2004 12:59 |
I think when Queen first came out it was Freddie centered. I mean, look at him then and his sound and his lyrics? For me, I only saw Freddie. However that changed quickly as I stayed with the band and learned more about them. I loved hearing Roger and Brian sing on Queen albums and missed that when it stopped. You tend to realize that the "Queen sound" can only be made by the four of them. |
| Mr.Jingles 25.02.2004 13:47 |
Just take for instance all the songs from 'Made In Heaven' taken from Freddie's solo work. They sound way much better as Queen songs. Also lets not forget that all Queen songs (even Bohemian Rhapsody) were collaborations between the 4 members of the band. Imagine BohRap without Brian's guitar solo, although Freddie wrote most of the song, the solo is his. |
| Sebastian 25.02.2004 14:19 |
The guys have said several times that Fred had all the parts of Bo Rhap in his mind. So without Brian he'd just have put Jeff Beck or someone else to play the solo. Bijou isn't a collaboration of the four members. Many songs aren't Also, to reply to the first post of this thread: > There were at least 3 huge worldwide hits written by each individual Oh really? Let's see: Fred: Bo Rhap, Champions, Crazy Little Thing. 3 it is (Innuendo was a hit in UK but I'm not sure if it was a worldwide hit) Brian: Rockyou and ... let's say I Want It All although I don't consider it to be such a huge hit. But nothing else. Flash was top 10 in UK but not a worldwide thing at all Roger: Radio Ga Ga and A Kind Of Magic. That's it John: Another one Bites, Break Free and ... let's say You're My Best Friend although I don't find it too worldwide |
| Rich Tea 25.02.2004 14:42 |
Sometimes I come on here and read such tosh I have to laugh. 1. When Queen started out Brians guitar playing was probably the first thing that got us into them his style was unique when compared to the likes of Page, Clapton, Townsend etc this made Queen very interesting for a new band. Remember in those days no MTV meant we had heard a lot of stuff before we actually saw the band. 2. Freddie matured as a performer in the early years but it wasn't until the Queen II tour that he really shone above many others as a great frontman. 3. You're My Best Friend was a hit because Queen fans bought it and many many other people bought it because it was an excellently structured pop song right for the time. 4. 50% of Queen is better than 0% Queen if they want to call themselves Queen, Smile or Humpy Bong I don't care so long as they continue making great music. The new tracks for 46664 were promising but I want more. |
| Mr.Jingles 25.02.2004 17:44 |
Innuendo was a colaboration between the 4 of them, though the lyrics were Roger's. |
| FM 25.02.2004 19:27 |
Although I agree that Queen were an equal partnership of 4 members, Freddie was the force that made the band so special and gave the band the uniqueness it became known for. I don't personally think it would have been so impossible for Queen to survive as Queen had another member decided to leave the band and Freddie was still alive and still the lead singer. I think he was the driving force and the one that made people stand up and really take notice. I'm not denying Brian, Roger or John, as each are incredible talents themselves and add a great deal to the band, as in writing and performing, but Freddie was really a one-off and really something quite special that can not be denied. It was he who really took the chances and pushed himself and the others to the limit. Remember, Smile wasn't hitting it big, no matter how good they were, and they were good!. Tim left, Freddie joined Brian and Roger, John came along and with Freddie's persistence and special uniqueness, Queen took off. Freddie was made to be a star and with such talented people with him, Queen became what it became. It can't be the same without him. No one can replace him. And, no matter how good of a singer one may be, or how good of a performer one may be, there was only one Freddie and only one Queen with Freddie in it. Even the name "Queen" was Freddie's idea! He was a very special person. |
| iGSM 25.02.2004 19:35 |
I'd buy a CD from any band called Humpy Bong. I agree. 50% of Queen is better than 0%. Just like one year of love is better than a lifetime alone. |
| Mr. Scully 26.02.2004 02:24 |
"Freddie was the force that made the band so special and gave the band the uniqueness it became known for.... I think he was the driving force and the one that made people stand up and really take notice." Yes but that's because when people noticed him, they said "Look, that's the gay singer who sings like he was in opera"! He was definitely the one who was responsible for all the publicity (both positive and negative) in the press but that doesn't automatically mean he was that important. For me Queen were (1.) amazing guitar, (2.) harmonies, (3.) amazing voice. I've always thought Brian was responsible for the first two points and Freddie for the third? That's why I consider Brian the most important Queen member. (And I fully agree with what Rich Tea wrote). |
| Hank H. 26.02.2004 04:37 |
"Finally, in my opinion Fred was just 12.5% of Queen. Each one was. The other 50% was the force that they all four had together. So if anyone of them isn't there the percentage (in my opinion) is reduced by 62.5%. A person without 62.5% of his blood dies. So, if there isn't the four of them there's no Queen for me. As I said, it's ok for one or two songs per album, because all of them produced the tracks and aproved them and etc. But not a full album or tour of just two or three former Queen members. That's not Queen, no way (and I don't mean legally, I mean ethically)" Oh my god... going a bit too far, don't you think? It's not a mathematical issue, and Queen is not about ethics either. I understand what you say, but I think you should reduce the trials in mathematical accuracy in your posts by at least 55,7 %. Don't get me wrong, generally I agree. |
| Sebastian 26.02.2004 05:50 |
Yes I agree I went too mathematical, but my point was it in fact. Without the four of them, half of the force is lost, so there's no Queen for me. Roger and Freddie sang way way more harmonies than Brian on studio and stage, but I agree with Martin that the distinctive Queen harmony sound comes more from Brian (compare Love Token with Is It Me or Your Kind Of Lover, in terms of vocals I mean). In terms of performance I agree Brian contributed more to the Queen sound because a guitar solo, no matter if John, Roger or Freddie wrote it, sounds Queen-like only with the Red Special. Innuendo in terms of writing was music by Freddie and lyrics by Freddie and Roger. Fred was more in the melody than in the actual words, he just started them off, Roger wrote the rest of them. In arrangements Brian, Dave Richards and Steve Howe also contributed, but that's not part of the actual songwriting. |
| S@turn 26.02.2004 06:58 |
< Hmm, Brians' guitar should make EVERY band unique :) Well, I think that all QUeen members were important, Queen could never have become what it is without one of them and they all have their unique influence, one more in front, one more at the background. A front man, singer, usually is in the spotlights more then the rest of the band and that is what happened with queen as well. And it is true, Freddie did not mind publicity, and maybe some other members did not mind being a bit more in the shadow They all had their influence and when one of us thinks that a certain member is making QUeen so special, that is a matter of personal taste, I think H |
| Fenderek 26.02.2004 08:54 |
It sometimes amazes me (and makes me laugh as well) that some ppl completely forget that Queen was 4 guys. Each of them with unique talent, unique persona and unique imput into machine called Queen. I agree- there are fans focused only on Freddie, also claiming that he was a God and whatever he touched was gold... That brings another thing which makes me lough even harder... The LEGEND of Queen is pretty beautiful itself- amazing story of a legendary band... Yet some ppl insist on adding even more, trying too hard to create... don't even know what are they trying to create... So many times I've heard that Freddie wrote "Show Must Go On" because he was dying- that was supposed to bring even more drama... But if it was really Freddie, I would just say- pretensious... Brian wrote it- that's another story; knowing all the meanings of the song- it's not banal at all... Isn't it more dramatic that Freddie in his last years was recording sth like "Delilah"? Guy is dying and singing happy tune about his fav cat... Isn't this heartbreaking ENOUGH...? It's not only about TSMGO- what about DoRo putting at the end of "Champions of the World" a bit of Freddie's interview saying "That's my last interview"- I thought that was really his last interview... And so on, and so on... What the F**k is it for...? The legend is pretty amazing without all this nonsens... You don't create DRAMA- there's nothing more dramatic than the truth! Exactly how it was! Changing this stuff creates banal and pretensiousness... Is it off the topic? Not really. Because from what I can see it's mostly "LEGEND of Freddie" that suffers from this... Freddie wasn't perfect, Freddie wasn't God- and that's the part of the REAL beauty of Queen... I think the reason why so many ppl are Freddie centered is because he died in dramatic circumstances and therefore they can now freely create the picture of sth that never existed- a perfect hero... A martyr... Some kind of Messiah almost... He's the best material to do so... And the fact that it doesn't make any sens? Well, there are more things on this planet that don't... |
| Rich Tea 26.02.2004 17:21 |
An interesting debate this and WHY? Well we all have our own personal opinions and our own personal favourites and thats why its a debate. Just like the meaning of Queen lyrics to each of us they have a different and personnal meaning. Freddie IMO was one of the greatest frontmen ever as the vocalist and focal point he was the one who attracted the media attention although lets remember the first Queen member to make front page news for anything other than music was Brian around 87 (when he was seeing the future Mrs May, then a soap icon, whilst still married to the first Mrs May!). Queen will be different things to different people but I draw my conclusion from the tribute concert which I have just watched on DVD again. I count that as the last Queen concert I went to, not Knebworth but Wembley 92 and I reckon the majority of the 72,000 other people there would agree. I really wish Freddie hadn't died but barring a miracle the only way I will see Queen again is Brian, Roger and hopefully John I will still consider it a Queen concert and I'm damned sure they will put on a bloody good show. if they want to do it they have every right to and I for one will support them. |
| Daburcor? 26.02.2004 17:24 |
I am more Freddie centerd as far as Queen goes. He was what made Queen REALLY special... to ME. |
| Erin 26.02.2004 17:25 |
I think the more appropriate question is: Are some girls too Roger centered? :-D |
| Daburcor? 26.02.2004 17:46 |
LOL! Good one.;) |
| Mr.Jingles 26.02.2004 17:52 |
Many people here think Freddie was the driving force in Queen, but that's because media has always focused mainly on the band's frontman, without him being necessarily the most talented member on the band. I'm not denying the huge talent Freddie had, because it's just simply impossible. But think of this guys... the driving force in Queen was Queen itself (or at least Freddie and Brian). I know Freddie came up with the band's name and the glam, but if he did it all by himself, how come he didn't suceed with IBEX and Wreckage? Sure, there's no Queen without Freddie's voice, but imagine Queen without the sound of the Red Special? |
| Sebastian 27.02.2004 07:02 |
I do think Fred was the driving force, but that doesn't mean he's the most important. He was the driving force in the matter that he wrote and arranged much more songs than the others, plus, as Brian mentioned once, he solved many fights between Brian and Roger, plus he was fundamental to support John's songwriting, and note that he took part of the production (mixing, recording supervision, etc) much more than the rest. Also for me his piano playing is equally important as his voice. But so are Brian's voice and guitar, Roger's voice and drums, John's bass and rhythm guitar, and financial expertise. |
| Rich Tea 27.02.2004 14:41 |
I must admit I am not totally into who mixed & produced what but the comment "he took part of the production (mixing, recording supervision, etc) much more than the rest" I would think is untrue. I've always thought that all 4 were equally involved in this and that was what made Queen unique. I mean the Flash Gordon album is the only Queen album that singles out an individual member for production duties and that was Brian. Live Brian was the only member who was on stage for the whole show even in the 80's when the guitar solo became uncool he continued! Don't get me wrong Freddie could have farted in a bucket and released it and I would have bought the 7" & the 12" extended remix the guy was a genius. I do think though that he was a genius because of the chemestry all 4 Queen members had and the interaction between them live and in the studio. Had Freddie been in any other group he would not have had the same impact. |
| Sebastian 27.02.2004 15:07 |
According to one of the sound engineers Fred was rarely away from the console. Also in the One Vision video you can see Fred supervising. Fred mixed Brian's Chinese Torture Of course it depends on the era too. I doubt in Hot Space he did anything more than play his piano parts and sing his vocals |
| Rich Tea 27.02.2004 17:55 |
I guess it would have depended on the track involved as well. Now i would have thought if any Queen album was Freddies baby I would have said Hot Space I would have thought he would have been the one pushing for a more Disco type sound. i know he didn't write all the tracks but its more the sound and feel of the album I'm talking about. I could imagine Freddie and Brian falling out over "Staying Power" with Brian wanting it to sound like "Dead On Time" with a heavey guitar sound and Freddie telling him to f**k off and getting the horn section in while Brian was off sulking LOL Could never see Brian May in a disco somehow!!!! |
| Sebastian 27.02.2004 18:22 |
Totally the opposite. Fred was the least interested in Hot Space. As Brian said, Fred just went in did his bit and left. Brian, Roger and John had way more input there. And Mack |
| Little_Queenie 27.02.2004 18:48 |
Fenderek, I must say I agree with you.. IMO, Queen would never be what it was without only one member. THEY WERE ALL EQUAL if u ask me. Together they made unique Queen-sound. As for Freddie being a God or a perfect icon, I don't see him like that. I THINK |
| Little_Queenie 27.02.2004 18:55 |
... he was a beautiful person, and a great songwriter and performer. The best actually, for me of course. I don't think he was perfect, not at all. He was only a human, but even though he (and Queen) made my life so much more beautiful. I can't imagine just one day without Queen music. Without Brian's guitar, John's bass, or Roger's drums. You know, sometimes when I listen to Queen, I try to concentrate only on one instrument, sometimes I try to listen only guitar, or drums, or piano, or only bass (which I found the most interesting:))) So my point is, none of them are perfect, including Freddie. Queen are all equal, and I don't think some of them are easier to replace then Freddie. The four of them were a perfect combination, and that made them the best. |
| Sebastian 27.02.2004 22:45 |
Of course they're not perfect, they're not equal either. It's their difference what made the difference if you know what I mean |
| iGSM 28.02.2004 00:05 |
< You mean you didn't? |
| Sonja 28.02.2004 02:30 |
To me Queen were the perfect band, they had the perfect guitarist, perfect bassist, perfect drummer and perfect vocalist and this chemnistry made them one of the greatest and most talented bands on the planet. Freddie was special, as almost every lead singer, he sometimes was called "the leader of the band". And without Freddie's voice and stage performance Queen wouldn't have been Queen. He was the magic about Queen I think, the one that the audience looked up to at show. So I think at concerts it was Freddie! But NONE of the others were less important for Queen's music. If any of them wouldn't have been there or would've been replaced it wouldn't have been Queen anymore. As far as the singing is concerned I am Freddie centered cos he had the most amazing voice I've ever heard. And I think he was just an absolutely interesting person. I'm not saying that the others were boring though ;-) But I personally even like Brian's songs much more than Freddie's. So without Brian many of my favourite songs wouldn't even exist.... So, I wouldn't say that I am Freddie centered in general. |
| Kuku 29.02.2004 02:35 |
Fenderek wrote: >>So many times I've heard that Freddie wrote "Show Must Go On" because he was dying- that was supposed to bring even more drama... But if it was really Freddie, I would just say- pretensious... Brian wrote it- that's another story; knowing all the meanings of the song- it's not banal at all... Isn't it more dramatic that Freddie in his last years was recording sth like "Delilah"? Guy is dying and singing happy tune about his fav cat... Isn't this heartbreaking ENOUGH...? << This post made me cry. |
| frejorobri 25.07.2004 05:45 |
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| Sebastian 25.07.2004 06:15 |
To sum up what I've said in this thread, I think Queen owes its quality (or greatness, or however you want to put it) to all four plus producers and crew. But they owe their success to Fred. Songs like Best Friend or Rockyou were hits because they were released by an already famous band (if Sparks had released them the story would be very different). And the band was already famous because of Bo Rhap (written by Freddie). And Bo Rhap was famous because the audience was expecting a lot for the next Queen single, cause the band was famous for Killer queen (written by Freddie). And that's because they had had a top 10 hit in the UK with Seven Seas Of Rhye (written by Freddie). |
| deleted user 25.07.2004 13:08 |
Sebastian wrote: |
| Sebastian 25.07.2004 13:18 |
I disagree. Rockyou's promotion was fundamental for its now everlasting status. Same with Champions. Lets imagine Queen didn't have anything when they did the stomp stomp clap thing. Would they have reached the top with that? I doubt so. It doesn't mean they wouldn't, I just say, imo, that an already famous band released the WWRY/WATC single, and that was fundamental for the good airplay they had, and that was fundamental for the success ofthe album, which made more people know the songs, and that was fundamental for the tours, and then the next album, and then the next, and then Greatest Hits... back in '77, they weren't the big anthems they're now. Rockyou doesn't owe its fame to Bo Rhap, it owes it to a combination of stuff. For example, the Live Aid performance (with all Wembley singing the chorus). All of that was making the song gain each time more its anthemic status. Of course, it was already famous at the time of Live Aid (otherwise the audience wouldn't know the chorus), but after that it become even more, and now it's an anthem, but it was not only because of the catchy rhythm itself. |
| deleted user 25.07.2004 13:50 |
Sebastian wrote: |
| frejorobri 25.07.2004 22:25 |
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| Sebastian 26.07.2004 00:44 |
The thing is, imo, neither Rockyou or Bohemian Rhapsody or Under Pressure or Yesterday etc would have been as everlasting without the promotion. We Will Rock You is famous because of a lot of things, I don't mean it's famous because of Live Aid, or because of its rhythm, or because of Champions (and vice versa), or because of Queen's fame... all those factors contributed. Same as Bo Rhap, was it a hit because of the video? because of its originality? because of the tour? because of the album success (and vice versa)? because of the title? no, because of all those little details combined. But, my point remains... the fame of the band is mainly because of Freddie. Without 7Seas, Killer Queen, Bo Rhap and somebody To Love it's possible that they wouldn't last until 1977 in the first place. And, as you pointed out, many people don't relate the two anthems (Rockyou and Champions) to the band. |