| John S Stuart 01.01.2004 22:19 |
YourValentine (posted 12/31/2003 9:09:02 AM) "tell us about Amazing Grace - pretty please:)" In answer to this, (and similar requests) I hope this post is viewed as both informative and (as a collector) request. Hopefully, some of this discussion may be new (so if cited - some sort of accreditation would be nice) and could be construed as "boasting". I assure that this is not my intention. Once and for all, I would finally like to know what actually is "out there" - and perhaps create some sort of "definative catalogue". If this works well - then perhaps we could be opening up a whole new area of research. If however this descends into another "bitching" session - then I guess it stops similar future postings. For newbies, or for those who have faith in the forthcoming boxsets, let me use the career of the Beatles and their "Anthology" collections as an example. (I stress that this has been very overly simplified!). The Beatles career (and thus bootlegs) fit nicely into the following six broad categories: 1: Pre-Beatles (Eg: Quarrymen, Silver Beatles etc). 2: BBC Radio Sessions. 3: Home Demos. 4: EMI Official Recording Sessions and out-takes. 5: EMI Acetate recordings of "Work in Progress" 6: Live Concert footage/recordings. (For ease of discussion I have ignored documentary/interviews and collaborations at this stage). Therefore, the only Beatle material EMI/Parlophone could legally release was the material owned by them (4: EMI Official Recording Sessions and out-takes) which meant that the other five categories were either wrangled over in court - or in some cases completely ignored. Now that is a LOT of officially ignored stuff! The good news for Beatles collectors is that some (not all) of this unavailable product is available in bootleg format - but the bad news is that some real gems (a 26 minute version of "Helter Skelter" for example) has NEVER surfaced. The parallels with Queen are similar. Any boxset by definition must ignore 5/6 of what could be available - and once live tracks are considered, the box sets are only the tip of the iceberg. To make things worse, unlike the Beatles, most of the "unreleased" Queen catalogue has NOT sufaced on bootleg, and while Greg may be doing a great job IN the archives, he has no idea what exists OUTSIDE. (Hence the nature of this post - but I ramble). Therefore some EXCELLENT Freddie stuff does exist, but was not included in the boxset for various reasons. So to eventually answer YV's question: a cassette tape does exist of Freddie playing well known piano pieces. The tape was recorded at Garden Lodge, and featured full versions of "Amazing Grace", "Send In The Clowns" and some (forgive my ignorance) Bach Preludes. Unlike the other Garden Lodge tapes which have surfaced - this one is "semi-professionally" recorded (very reminiscent of Brian's "Too Much Love" home demos) from a "decent" piano onto "decent" equipment. Freddie obviously takes the "exercise" seriously, and although no Mike Moran or Thierry Lang, he makes very few mistakes (if any) and it sounds as if he is playing from memory (or ear?) because he does not appear to be playing from sheet music. (Amazing Grace is three or four verses long - and although similar - each verse is slightly different). The tape came from a certain Irish gardener, whom I believe is not too popular in "this here parts!". Another example of an unreleased Freddie gem is Andrew Llyod Webber's "Creatures Of The Night" from "Phantom Of The Opera". It may surprise some, but Freddie (and not Michael Crawford) was Andrew's first choice to play the phantom. As such, Freddie recorded the audio version of a "screen-test" (a sort of demo if you like). Basically, Freddie listened to a "karaoke" version through headphones. Sheet-music in hand, Freddie cut a couple of vocal improvs. (Freddie as a karaoke singer - now there is a good idea!). These vocals still exist (but as gui |
| Lester Burnham 01.01.2004 22:33 |
Wow. I fully support this, even though I have nothing to offer. Kudos to you, John. |
| Saint Jiub 01.01.2004 23:02 |
I have a feeling, Queen Productions would never be willing to reimburse each collector what each collector has paid to obtain such gems. Also, collectors probably (if they are sane) not loan their recordings to Queen Productions given the "Wreckage fiasco". Clearly Queen Productions is not willing to pay reasonable money for what they feel is "rightfully" theirs, and the petty thieves that have seemingly infiltrated Queen Productions make loaning of rare material out of the question. Collectors should not be expected to "donate" to the box sets unless they are guaranteed of recovering at least their original MONETARY investments. John, thanks for your continued contributions |
| Saint Jiub 01.01.2004 23:06 |
Of course, perhaps John (probably) was only talking about documentation of these rareties ... oops |
| Adam Baboolal 01.01.2004 23:56 |
Nice idea for a topic. But who here is really going to own up to having or heard these things? Also, how does the non-collector (etc.) know if what's being said, is true? I.E. The idea of Freddie recording these vocals for Phantom Of The Opera. How does the everyday-fan on these boards take this as fact? John, could you tell us how you know about (at least) that one? If it's just by rumour, I don't think these should be taken seriously. No matter how legit the source seems. Hard facts are a blessing. Peace, Adam. |
| YourValentine 02.01.2004 03:13 |
Thanks for this, John. The Freddie box is one of the most treasured records I ever owned. To think that so much is still missing makes me sad - to say the least. Of course I understand the reasons why some people preferred to not send in their tapes to QP when the Freddie box was compiled, perhaps they were not even asked. Freddie playing Bach of all music, that is truly amazing. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute any information except for the already known tracks and I seriously doubt than anybody knows more about this unreleased material than you do. Do you think that Freddie ever considered to sing lead role in a musical? I seem to remember that he said he did not have the discipline for such a task (when talking about the "Time" musical). |
| Maz 02.01.2004 03:56 |
How does ownership effect Queen's later releases? I would assume that by the 80s at some point, Queen owned more of their original recordings, and that the 5/6 rule you mentioned would be slightly skewed. Also, is it just a matter that more Freddie "odds and ends" have hit the collector market, or was he more productive in that manner than the other boys? And finally- "a 26 minute version of "Helter Skelter" for example" Is that any good? I really hate that song, and can't possibly imagine a 26 minute version of it being entertaining. Always a pleasure to read these kind of posts. Wish I could contribute something. |
| John S Stuart 02.01.2004 09:34 |
Adam: "Could you tell us how you know about (at least) that one... No matter how legit the source seems. Hard facts are a blessing". I could not agree more Adam, but rather than let me try to convice you, I think that it is up to us all to conduct a bit of personal research. A cursory "Google" internet search for "Freddie Mercury & Phantom Of The Opera" revealed; link link link If you were around at the time of Freddie's death, you may recall amid the many newspaper stories, magazine articles and the myriad of TV & Radio interviews, it was announced that Queen had many unreleased tracks - and that a new album could be released during the following 6 - 18 months. One of the "hot tracks" touted for release was "Creatures Of The Night". While "Made In Heaven" came and went without "Creatures", omission was justified as "not a Queen track", and "Lloyd Webber property". When the Freddie box set finally appeared a number of tracks (including "Creatures..." and additional Dave Clark tracks among others) were still excluded. Better sources include Peter Straker, and Llyod Webber, who via various sources (Interviews, Press Releases etc) have confirmed that Freddie did indeed record such a guide vocal. For older Queen fans, this should not come as "News", but for those who wish to inevstigate further - perhaps a more thorough personal search could be more beneficial. YV: "Do you think that Freddie ever considered to sing lead role in a musical? I seem to remember that he said he did not have the discipline for such a task (when talking about the "Time" musical)". In my opinion (and yes Adam this bit is speculation NOT fact) I think the simple answer is both Yes and No! No - to a series of theatrical live performances, but (like "Time") Yes - to a studio recording of the OST. Shame really, because with the combination of Freddie's amazingly "dramatic" vocals and astute sense of the theatrical, I think he would have been an amazing phantom. |
| michael gottlieb 02.01.2004 11:20 |
John, you rule ! It's always a pleasure to read your very interesting topics though I also cannot really contribute anything to these issues. Go ahead ! |
| Chaka 02.01.2004 14:03 |
I would be very interested in knowing exactly what does exist in the Queen world behind what the average fan (myself included) has heard, and I fully support any attempt to create the "definitive catalog". Good luck to you, John in this endeavor, and hoping that other knowledgeable Queen fans who can contribute will do so. |
| Adam Baboolal 02.01.2004 15:31 |
Again, good stuff. But I still think rumour needs separated. After your urging to investigate, I have only found heresay and rumour about such a track. And I'm not really into finding out about unreleased tracks. Not as much as I used to be. But even if it is true - we need someone to tell us, honestly, that it has been seen or heard. Peace, Adam. |
| wstüssyb 02.01.2004 16:59 |
now I understand why you have that creatures of the night thing for your quote. |
| Babel_esp 02.01.2004 18:11 |
I collect only for hobby on opposition to hard-core collectors so I am far from having access to these treasures-in-vaults you mention, John. Indeed it is quite nice to know of those amazing the Freddie's solo piano pieces played in Garden Lodge including Bach's ones, very interesting. Greg must have a hard work to do with the archives, but I hope he considers including some tracks that most of us have heard of but that we haven't listened to: - "Face it alone" from the Innuendo sessions is one of my long-expected ones, specially since it is reported to be a three-piece graet ballad. - "Africa by night", the Freddie solo demo version for "All God's people". - "Creatures on the night". Mentioned above but unlikely to appear on the Queen boxset since it's Freddie solo work. - "Goin' back" demo version, not the one that was released as a B-side. Not to talk of the Roger's Olympic theme which is owned by a private collector who is not willing to disclose it (pity) and, again, it is not Queen. Indeed it's funny how there's so much "hidden" material available yet around Queen. Nice post, John :) |
| Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 02.01.2004 23:31 |
I don't know if this would be considered Queen or Mercury solo material, but I think I remember hearing that there is a home recording of Freddie performing an early demo of Keep Passing The Open Windows. There's also Queen versions of Man Made Paradise and There Must Be More To Life Than This, which was mentioned in the Freddie Box. The liner notes said that they would be released on the Queen Box Set (3 years ago). |
| fat bottomed girl 7238 03.01.2004 02:10 |
Sounds great!!! FBG!!! |
| Shane Jazz 03.01.2004 03:22 |
I've read in various sites that there is a Queen demo version of Roger's Magic is Loose. But where did this information come from? Was it mentioned by Greg or Jim Jenkins at any time, or by a band member themselves? Same thing with New Dark Ages. Thanks for any info! |
| Ron 03.01.2004 05:50 |
"I've read in various sites that there is a Queen demo version of Roger's Magic is Loose. But where did this information come from? Was it mentioned by Greg or Jim Jenkins at any time, or by a band member themselves? Same thing with New Dark Ages. Thanks for any info!" all I know is that Roger once said that he WISHED that Freddie had sung Magic Is Loose I know too little bout New Dark Ages.. could be recorded by Queen once but that is just a guess.. same for Driven By you |
| Sebastian 03.01.2004 07:35 |
Thanks John for the info, it's so great. Just for being a smart-ass, but also for the sake of an accurate info, I feel I have to point out something: There's no 'Creatures Of The Night' in Phantom. The song you refer is called 'MUSIC of The Night'. 'Creatures Of The Night' is a Kiss track from early 80s (from wonderful album with the same title btw) in which Paul Stanley also played bass - yes, that's the nonsense trivia I love. |
| L-R-TIGER1994 03.01.2004 11:57 |
If they didn't include songs in the box-sets because they are Freddie solo work or Roger's or Brian's,I wonder if some day,now that we have Freddie box-set,we could have Roger or Brian ones. |
| Ogre_Battle 03.01.2004 12:10 |
What's missing? The box sets themselves. Give up, they aren't coming out. It's just a 5 years and counting tease. |
| FriedChicken 03.01.2004 13:53 |
"I wonder if some day,now that we have Freddie box-set,we could have Roger or Brian ones." I don't think so, I remember someone saying (I think it was Greg) who said there wasn't enough material for Brian or Roger to fill a boxset. And even if there was enough material, I don't think they would release boxsets of Brian and Roger. Because non Queen fans won't buy, or won't even look at Brian May or Roger Taylor boxsets. I don't think a lot of non queen fans bought the Freddie Box, but non queenfans see the name Freddie Mercury and they pick it up. same goes for Queen. And thats because Freddie Mercury was the face of Queen. |
| AlexRocks 03.01.2004 16:00 |
Just wanted to say that I thought that I understood that Greg said that there would be three Queen box sets, a live Queen box set, a box set for Roger Taylor, and a box set for Brian May. I know Roger doing eight albums solo and with the Cross would have enough I would at least imagine. I also think Brian May would too especially if he goes out does more new stuff. There is no reason for them or at least Brian to quit doing solo material even if they go on as Queen again. With all the collaborations live and studio Brian would have enough material in my opinion. They definitely should do all of this! |
| Whisperer 03.01.2004 16:07 |
I think they should release a box with all collaborations by the Queen members. That could sell. A boxset with Roger's and Brian's rare stuff won't probably sell, but it could be release for fans only if the costs of making the box would be cheap (just lots of discs in a box, nothing else). |
| Adam Baboolal 03.01.2004 23:48 |
The plan was for 3-4 boxsets, if I remember correctly. Three covering Queen studio stuff and a fourth for live stuff. There was never a plan to throw Roger or Brian only boxes into the equation. Peace, Adam. |
| Holly2003 04.01.2004 01:14 |
Who in their right mind would release a Queen Box Set featuring Brian & Roger solo work? If their solo albums don't sell then the songs that weren't good enough to be released aren't going to sell either. Imagine how bad some of those songs must be if they didn't make it onto a Cross album, for example. |
| Ron 04.01.2004 07:03 |
"The box sets themselves. Give up, they aren't coming out. It's just a 5 years and counting tease." in fact work has started on them again. They will come out one day, just wait and see. And it's going to be three sets |
| Adam Baboolal 04.01.2004 09:50 |
My brother has always told me that they planned to release a boxset a few years after 1991. But it never happened. So, while things started properly 5 years ago, I don't think anyone here has any idea of what stage the sets are at. The major cataloging finished sometime last year. Now it's up to them to arrange everything. Peace, Adam. |
| FriedChicken 04.01.2004 10:02 |
test |
| Chaka 23.04.2004 19:57 |
I wanted to bring this topic back in the eyes of the Queenzone community. in light of Pim mentioning a live side black medley my interest in finding out what exists outside the normal albums and even the common bootlegs/mp3s has been renewed. Anyone willing to tell what they've heard of? |
| Daburcor? 23.04.2004 20:00 |
I've heard the same as anyone else... Not much I'm sad to say. :/ |
| teddybear 23.04.2004 23:59 |
I thoughtit odd when I read "Creatures of the Night" - as I have the Phantom UK soundtrack and cannot see it on there, so figure that it must be "Music of the Night you are referring too? Anyway,that would be awesome !! I think Michael Crawford is fantastic in that role and made it his own - in fact he created the version we know today (it is quite different to the original writing - or score) and in fact the original Music of the Night was written for the lead female role (Christina) to sing !! It was only that Michael did such a great job of it that it was handed over to the phantom. How do I know? It was posted in the CD notes of the Australian release by the female lead of Phantom here (Marina Prior)in which she sings it. Also I read that Andrew wanted Freddie for the MOVIE version he was planning to release of the Phantom (as he did Evita) not the stage role - but Freddie was too sick. Read that in one of the many Queen bios I have - but there you go - would have been awesome eh? And when I see the WTLF video, I think how wonderful Freddie would have been as that phantom and what a big hit the movie would have been !! Hugs "teddybear" |