| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 06:29 |
Tony Blair as confirmed that Saddam Hussein was captured in his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq, living in a darkened celler like a rat. |
| *the Time Guardian* 14.12.2003 07:00 |
Is it really Saddam not another clone of him? I mean... I don't think they could capture him THAT easilly. And they might capture Bush as well, cause in this war blame is not on Saddam... (though he is a jerk) |
| Wreckage 14.12.2003 07:11 |
Nope, its definitely him - DNA tests have confirmed it. (Though if reports that he did not put up a fight when found are ture, that does seem oddly out of charachter for him). |
| Iam the one 14.12.2003 07:13 |
I hope they KILL him! |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 07:17 |
well we'll have to see what happens next. Very touch and go if you ask me. |
| Mayboy 14.12.2003 07:24 |
Just seen him on TV wow long beard lol |
| Pluto 14.12.2003 07:41 |
im so happy:) now the war might get over soon YAY!!!!!!! |
| DudleyFufkin 14.12.2003 07:46 |
Dont be fucking stupid, the war isnt over now, its just got worse. How long will it be until Saddam is on the frank Skinner show? |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 07:50 |
It was'nt that easy to capture him, only took 10 months, maybe we should let Time Guardian judge him, he would propbly get of with a week in Hawaii and a 5 quid fine, everything comes to him who waits. |
| *the Time Guardian* 14.12.2003 07:51 |
I agree - the war is not over. Maybe the real war has just begun... I'm so angry. Many Estonians are sent to Iraq because of that war. I hear from the news so often, that they get wonded there. And for what?? Because Bush started this stupid war to get this f*** naphtha. Our people should not be there, they should not get wounded out there! But our stupid politicans just suck up to America and hope, that if the war starts over here some day, then USA will come to help us. Yeah, right! In a dream maybe |
| Azmandaman 14.12.2003 07:52 |
Dudley playa ya so so so right!!! all this shit is just pop generated votes *pop* as in popular generated, I mean look at the so called undercover high security allert of Bushes visit to Britain...... Fuck me! ma cousins in Australia saw their televised fully reported grandmasta plan on the news!! Geez! I wonder when saddam turns into a stand up comedy, he'll have some priceless jokes to tell us all here in Europe! World is fucked up just get your self a copy of the doomsday book you all be surprise unless you get the hippy version which is a load of Bull! |
| monster 14.12.2003 08:25 |
USA invaded Iraq because they wanted the oil. I don't buy that "we will free the people from tyranny" crap |
| Mrs.Taylor 14.12.2003 08:26 |
Six new words to enter our psyche : "Ladies and gentlemen, we got him!" I guess the reaction of the Iraqis in the press conference when they saw the pictures said it all :) |
| *the Time Guardian* 14.12.2003 08:30 |
"USA invaded Iraq because they wanted the oil. I don't buy that "we will free the people from tyranny" crap " me neither. Never |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 08:32 |
The Unit that captured Saddam was from Fort Hood ...WOo Texas :) |
| Tommy 14.12.2003 08:40 |
Remember Roger signing a campaing "not in my name" against the Iraq war? LOL he did'nt understand it was nessecary to go to war get Saddam Hussein...or was he just a keen fan who wanted the Iraq people to suffer for 20 years more? |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 08:46 |
There sure is some bleedin' hearts on here today. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 08:48 |
Whatever happend to the nuclear weapons that they claimed that Saddam had!!!! Ohh yeah almost forgot that's not more importent than finding Saddam??!! it sickens me when they change the facts for thier own benifts. I'm glad that he is caught and i also can't wait to see him put to trial..because this man is gonna reveal some secrets that only god knows what they are, But after that the U.S. should get the fuck out of Iraq and let it's people be. "but i highly doubt that would happen" i'm sure they r now looking for another reason to justify thier stay in Iraq. |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 08:50 |
Texas really? I wasn't paying that close attention. I have a friend over there from fort hood.) |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 09:01 |
The USA & British troops should stay in Iraq until the country is stable and able to manage itself, leaving now would be madness, there is still plenty more like Saddam waiting to pounce and we'd be back to square one, keep up the good work lads & lasses. |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 09:05 |
yep rosie that's what i'm hearing on 93.3 the bone :) |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 09:13 |
What power do they have now Harvey!!! they have no army they have no control over the military facilties!!! so if they showed up around this time it would be thier own funeral. even Saddam would have been killed if the Iraqi people caught him before the u.s. forces did. the man didn't have anyone by his side no one resisted and he surrenderd with out puting up a fight. THE WAR STARTED BECAUSE THEY CLAIMED THAT SADDAMS REGIEM POSSESD NUCLEAR WEAPONS IT DIDN'T START TO REMOVE SADDAM. so it's time to LEAVE. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 09:29 |
Saddam can go to hell for all i care. I am sure that he will be executed after his trial and i'm looking forward to it. "What, and leave the country in the state it is in?? That would be irresponsible wouldn't it. The US should stay and clean up all the mess and stay long enough to help the Iraq people to set up a democratic society." The unstable state that this country is going through is 'cause the coalition forces are still in Iraq. Tell me something if they left now do you still think the terrorist attacks would keep on going?? IMO i don't think so since that they are only targeting coalition troops not thier own people! Iraq has it's own government now and they are capable of forming a democratic socity, they don't need the u.s. for that. THIS WAR MUST END NOW 'cause so many lives have been lost from both sides. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 09:30 |
It does'nt matter if the Weapons of mass detsruction amount to a pea shooter, Saddam ignored every UN resolution, he also invaded Kuwait, as soon as the allies come over the hill he goes back under his stone, to reappear years later stronger and madder than before.If the Americans and Brits leave now there has got to be somebody else to lead the fight against democracy, it might not be next year or the year after but it will happen, and when Iraq is finally soughted the next stop should be Syria then North Korea. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 09:34 |
"and when Iraq is finally soughted the next stop should be Syria then North Korea." So it's that simple! |
| iGSM 14.12.2003 09:38 |
Pfft, I'm pretty sure that more Americans have been wounded/killed by Americans than by Iraqis. Pte. Joe Gillespie - KIA by a flying fork which happened to fall on the floor. Sgt. Dominic Waters - Wounded by a set of playing cards that had rather sharp edges Lt. Grahame Hick - Wounded after he found a rock in his shoe which caused him a blister. You'd think that America were sending dunderklumpins to fight a war. *Point gun away from self* That God for the idiot proof army. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 09:52 |
To most of you guys it sounds like the USA are the only nation in Iraq. |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 09:58 |
he's probably thinking yes there is a Santa hehe |
| Sir Archie 'Tiffany' Leach 14.12.2003 10:04 |
'The unstable state that this country is going through is 'cause the coalition forces are still in Iraq. Tell me something if they left now do you still think the terrorist attacks would keep on going?? IMO i don't think so since that they are only targeting coalition troops not thier own people!' I suggest you watch the news a bit more carefully old bean. 17 Iraqis killed in car bomb blast today and no coalition troops in the area. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 10:07 |
"So you want him dead do you? You claim you want the war to stop because too many lives have been lost yet you want him dead?? Killing him lets him off the hook. I would rather see him locked up for the rest of his life with hard labor." This man is an exception he actually deserves death...but a life time in prison would do him good! |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 10:11 |
"I suggest you watch the news a bit more carefully old bean. 17 Iraqis killed in car bomb blast today and no coalition troops in the area." and i suggest you shut up. If u didn't know i live in Saudi which happens to be next to IRAQ!!! and i watch the news on Al-Jazeera daily which means that i'm exposed to more info than any of you. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 10:32 |
"Archie must have seen this on the news otherwise he wouldn't have made a comment." Never said he was lying. "Just because you live close to all the action doesn't mean you are better informed than the rest of the world." Didn't say the whole world but i'm sure that i'm better informed than u. "HEY, DON'T TELL ARCHIE TO SHUT UP!!" and u don't tell me what to do. and archy i'm sorry i just got pissed off. |
| Margo 14.12.2003 10:44 |
MotQ, I know that it was wrong to go into Iraq in the first place, and that we should never have done it. However- we DID go into Iraq. We got rid of the government completely. If we leave now, the country will pretty much be in complete anarchy. This is bad. We need to finish what we started, because if we don't there will be (more) lootings, killings, etc. Yes I know that we never found weapons of mass destruction, and Bush probably started war to "avenge" his father. However, whats done is done, and we now have to fix what we screwed up. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 11:06 |
Just drop it.... |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 11:20 |
NOBY Where is that radio station from? |
| deleted user 14.12.2003 11:23 |
'As I stated in a previous post, the fact that weapons of mass destruction were not found doesn't matter.' Yes it does. That is the reason the US and the 'coalition of the willing' went into Iraq in the first place. To rid the world of a terrorist threat. I.E. WOMD. That is crap. 'Ol Bush wanted to get Saddam out of there because he thinks he is a tyrant. And I agree he is. However. If he would have said that in the first place, do you really think that the US government officials, and the 'coalition of the willing' would have been so willing? For some reason I think not. On to the next question. If Saddam was supposed to be captured at 1 am this morning (what CNN says), how could they do a DNA test in a few short hours? Doesn't it take a while longer to get the results of a DNA test? Just wondering. |
| deleted user 14.12.2003 11:24 |
Oh right. Forgot one thing. Guess who just won the Presidential Election in 2004. A sad day indeed. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 11:26 |
So what your saying is that it's OK to start a war to remove every single dictator on this planet!!!! how Intelligent!! It’s obvious that you’re the one who doesn’t care how many lives are lost in the name of democracy...screw democracy if this is the only way to get it. "Looks as though he just wants to bash Americans." I challenge you to quote one word that I've written that shows in away or another that i'm bashing the Americans. I was refering to thier army and thier government..do they represnt everyone in America??if yes! then I guess everyone in Iraq should be put in prison. 'cause they were ruled by a dictator which makes them dictators also... From now on I am not going to reply to any of your posts PSYCHE STAR. So feel free to say whatever you want about me..you care you don't care? that's your problem. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 14.12.2003 11:41 |
Saddam was found with a loaded pistol by his side, why the hell did'nt he put it to his temple and pull the trigger, it would have saved a 2 year court case. |
| Guy 14.12.2003 12:45 |
"if they left now do you still think the terrorist attacks would keep on going?? IMO i don't think so since that they are only targeting coalition troops not thier own people! Iraq has it's own government now and they are capable of forming a democratic socity, they don't need the u.s. for that." Would you like to bet that 1 month after the US leaves Iraq as it is now there will be an uprising? The media shows us what it wants us to see. Al-Jazera (or however you spell it) broadcasts things the Arab want to see, and Fox broadcasts things the Americans want to see. Just accept it. And I think you need to take another look at the world as it is today, Gerli. |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 12:49 |
"On to the next question. If Saddam was supposed to be captured at 1 am this morning (what CNN says), how could they do a DNA test in a few short hours? Doesn't it take a while longer to get the results of a DNA test? Just wondering." I wouldn't be surprised if they already knew where he was, but waited for the right time to capture him just to boost Bush's votes in the elections!! |
| bleeding heart show 14.12.2003 12:51 |
"The media shows us what it wants us to see. Al-Jazera (or however you spell it) broadcasts things the Arab want to see, and Fox broadcasts things the Americans want to see. Just accept it." "I could not agree more." I guess youre right GUY!! EDIT: this is the spelling for Al-Jazeera. |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 13:17 |
NOBY Where is that radio station from? Dallas Tx :) |
| nil 14.12.2003 14:20 |
I never knew! :-O |
| nil 14.12.2003 14:40 |
Just heard now :p |
| nil 14.12.2003 14:53 |
Who is he anyway? |
| deleted user 14.12.2003 15:19 |
LOL! |
| The Professor 14.12.2003 15:24 |
I just love how US is so eager to form a "democratic society" in Iraq. You have to remember that that area of the world has totally different history, values and beliefs, and I think you would be surprised at how many people there actually want an American-like democracy. US needs to let the people decide how to run their country, and not shove democrary down people's throats and call it freedom. |
| Saffron Caribou 14.12.2003 15:49 |
Well I heard about this news when I got home this morning from a party hearty night ;) Hehehe I might say that I was quite shocked, never thought that the Yanks could pull it off. When I heard that "We Got Him" quote I got to admit, it made me feel queasy. Cockyness makes me feel queasy, and when Bush spoke, sheesh almost puked IMO. I would never respect a person of "celebrating" the capture of another human being no matter how much of a tyrant and low life is the person. Still this capture doesn't justify the war, because of the initial reasons of why the US invaded Iraq. However, this is remained to be seen because a lot of questions could be answered about the weapons of mass destruction. Still, I don't think that this will "end the war". Although the war "ended" back in April. However, the US, UK, and Aussie troops that are there, and the the governments(Aznar, Bush, and Blair) should finish what they started. They were the ones that invaded Iraq for infamous reasons that hasn't been proved yet. Also, to bring "democracy" to Iraq, which I don't think its possible with the countless revolutionist factions in the Middle East. Violence in the ME was and still is a staple of their culture, like it or not, it is the truth. I don't think that "Americanising" (oops! meant "democrasing") Iraq would solve those eons of conflicts between military factions between revolutionist groups. I don't think that this would be the end of terrorism either. Lets face it, terrorism is never going to end no matter how many wars (which IMO is considered as terrorism), peace treaties, and the sort will be done. Still, when a tyrant or mad man is captured there is always another one waiting in the wings. Just heard that the DNA tests haven't been done yet, it takes close to 20 or so to complete. I assume that DNA samples were taken from Hussein's two sons. Qussay and Udai to perform those tests. Although I heard that Saddam did confess that it was him. All of this remains to be seen, perhaps a 2 to 3 years military trial, which I think would lead Hussein to the death penalty. Because I don't think that the American government would suffice with life long prison sentence, its the death penalty they want for him. I believe that the shift will be sway again back to Bin Laden, which by now, it isn't likely to be found. Still capturing Bin Laden would not justify terrorism either. It would justify the 9/11 attacks, the attacks on the USS Cole, and the American Embassy in Sudan (please correct me if I'm wrong here). About the news coverage, like Guy pointed out, its arbitrary to the country you live in. The same goes for History. A history book, just like a news channel exaults the patriotic, and crushes the foreign. Facts can be distorded to conform and exault what is best of a country, never the worst. Now I feel that North Korea is next on the agenda, they DO have weapons of mass destruction, and I would be scared shitless if a war will be happen against them. I'm against any type of violent conflict, you could say that I'm either a coward or a pacifist. Still war never justifies anything, it violates human rights through and through. I'm a firm believer of not inflitrating foreign interests. The US government, as well as other First World governments, should concentrate of fixing their own problems. Its a fallacy to believe that a omnipotent country doesn't have any problems. Instead of wasting money in a unjustifiable war, they should take that money and put into good use such as education, medicine, and other internal problems. Still this is only an opinion, flame all you want. I'll stick to my guns. This has been my 750,000 dollars, instead of my 2 cents ;). |
| Saffron Caribou 14.12.2003 15:51 |
I agree X. There is a term that could be fitting for that and its called "Globalization". First World countries taken over Third World countries for their own benefit. |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 16:03 |
Dallas Tx :) could you be a fellow texan too are just in ear shot? |
| Daburcor? 14.12.2003 16:09 |
It's about fucking time someone got that son of a bitch! I wish they'd have put a bullet in his head then and there. |
| Hitman 14.12.2003 16:11 |
i only have time to read "page three" but...hey...WE are living an historical moment!!Saddam's arrest will be on hystory books!!!i was driving in my car when i heard the first time about the event. |
| Wreckage 14.12.2003 16:32 |
When I heard that "We Got Him" quote I got to admit, it made me feel queasy. Cockyness makes me feel queasy, and when Bush spoke, sheesh almost puked IMO. I would never respect a person of "celebrating" the capture of another human being no matter how much of a tyrant and low life is the person'. Where exactly, in his Tv address, was Bush 'gloating', then? (It was Paul Bremer who boasted 'we got him!') 'Now I feel that North Korea is next on the agenda, they DO have weapons of mass destruction, and I would be scared shitless if a war will be happen against them.' Fear not, the U.S. isn't going to invade North Korea - I think it fully realises that 'pre-emption' is only safe and justified in a small number of cases (i.e. NOT when your opponent has nukes and probably isn't afraid to use them), and I believe it will rely on China to contain Kim-Jong-Il and friends. ' I don't think that "Americanising" (oops! meant "democrasing") Iraq would solve those eons of conflicts between military factions between revolutionist groups. ' Not strictly true... 'democratising' Iraq will at least give these tribes a legitimate and peaceful means of settling their differences (though learning this 'habit' of peaceful settlement will admittedly take a long time and won't be achieved without more pro-active effort by outsiders to 'teach' democracy (for example, closing down fundamentalist Madrassas, election monitoring, balh, blah, blah). 'I don't think that this would be the end of terrorism either. Lets face it, terrorism is never going to end no matter how many wars (which IMO is considered as terrorism), peace treaties, and the sort will be done. Still, when a tyrant or mad man is captured there is always another one waiting in the wings. I believe that the shift will be sway again back to Bin Laden, which by now, it isn't likely to be found. Still capturing Bin Laden would not justify terrorism either. It would justify the 9/11 attacks, the attacks on the USS Cole, and the American Embassy in Sudan (please correct me if I'm wrong here).' Capturing Bin Laden is unlikely to achieve anything than granting him martyrdom. Al-Qaeda is not a massive organisation in itself, but it has affiliations with other terrorist 'cells' in many other nations, most of whom plan their own attacks and raise their own funds without extensive involvement from Bin Ladan. In fact, these terrorist cells with completely different objectives share fighters, tactics and weapons with eachother more than with their respective leaderships - so I doubt well even be able to get a lot of information about terrorist operations from Bin Laden if he were ever to be caught (and that's a big 'if'), though bringing him to some sort of justice will obviously galvanise the 'war on terror' and possibly demoralise the terrorists. Ultimately, as long as the means and the motivation exist, terrorism will be used. A transnational threat like Al-Qaeda is especially difficult to tackle, as that makes it that much harder to survey and contain their activities (as the UK eventuallly managed witht the IRA). Perhaps if the U.S. placed more emphasis upon addressing the root causes of terorism (which, to be fair, its plans for democratisation in the middle east is for (shame its been limited by the miniscule federal foreign aid budget) and involved its supposed allies more in the (entirely justified) effort to destroy terrorist cells and stop WMD proliferation, then Al-Qaeda and friends may cease to pose such a major security risk at some point in the future. Anyway, lets hope they can get on with the business of getting a proper new regime up and running in Iraq pronto, then there will be a real reason for the Iraqis to celebrate. |
| Wreckage 14.12.2003 16:35 |
"It's about fucking time someone got that son of a bitch! I wish they'd have put a bullet in his head then and there." WHY?' Because it would save the hassle of a trial that would undoubtedly drag on for years and years, and that would no doubt end with his execution anyway. (Though I do actually think trying Saddam in an Iraqi court is the right thinkg to do - as a demonstration of how regimes should work). |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 16:43 |
Dallas Tx :) could you be a fellow texan too are just in ear shot? fellow texan near the broadcast tower...but is a texan in the listening area and around Dallas :) |
| deleted user 14.12.2003 16:44 |
Well it's good that they caught him, now if only the war would stop that would be a good thing. |
| Saffron Caribou 14.12.2003 16:50 |
"Where exactly, in his Tv address, was Bush 'gloating', then? (It was Paul Bremer who boasted 'we got him!')" About the gloating, I meant Paul Bremer. Bush again he gloats that the Iraqui people is now free from Saddam,and that these terrorists will be defeated..., if that isn't cockyness I don't know what is, but that's what I perceived. One should never assume or presuppose anything, until the chain of events occurs. "Not strictly true... 'democratising' Iraq will at least give these tribes a legitimate and peaceful means of settling their differences (though learning this 'habit' of peaceful settlement will admittedly take a long time and won't be achieved without more pro-active effort by outsiders to 'teach' democracy (for example, closing down fundamentalist Madrassas, election monitoring, balh, blah, blah)." Teaching democracy?! I think First World countries (US UK) should check and correct themselves on that. There is no true form of democracy. Democracy is what is suitable for the government means. If corruption, not concentrating in the main issues of the homeland, implementing foreign policies, and invasion is democracy, I must be wrong! "Capturing Bin Laden is unlikely to achieve anything than granting him martyrdom. Al-Qaeda is not a massive organisation in itself, but it has affiliations with other terrorist 'cells' in many other nations, most of whom plan their own attacks and raise their own funds without extensive involvement from Bin Ladan. In fact, these terrorist cells with completely different objectives share fighters, tactics and weapons with eachother more than with their respective leaderships - so I doubt well even be able to get a lot of information about terrorist operations from Bin Laden if he were ever to be caught (and that's a big 'if'), though bringing him to some sort of justice will obviously galvanise the 'war on terror' and possibly demoralise the terrorists." I agree about the martydom of Bin Laden if he is killed or captured. It would greatly galvanise the "war" of terrorism, still war is terrorism. Innocent people being killed, and suffering months without shelter, food or clothing, treading from spot to spot trying to save themselves is a way to "fight" terrorism, I don't support it in the least. However it still baffles me that Saddam, and Bin Laden were once US allies, and to push the infamous foreign policies they have to pick an enemy. |
| Freddie-B 14.12.2003 17:20 |
Great, we found the bloke that we started looking for when we couldn't find the bloke that we were actually looking for. So, who's next? I think we should hunt David Blunkett. He's easy to find, and he wouldn't see us coming. Who's with me? |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 17:33 |
"texan in the listening area and around Dallas :)" so did you guys get any snow fluries? (haven't heard any weather nor have I saught it out) Besides weather is better found out 1st hand. So did ya? It was clear as a bell here but I am enjoying the cool weather. Was 34* this morning but has warmed up to 66* as of now. (hey is not talking about the thread topic a no no or is it permitted?) rosanna |
| NoOneButYou1975 14.12.2003 17:41 |
no snow just cold ...and partly cloudy today is sunny :> |
| Daburcor? 14.12.2003 17:47 |
"Because it would save the hassle of a trial that would undoubtedly drag on for years and years, and that would no doubt end with his execution anyway. (Though I do actually think trying Saddam in an Iraqi court is the right thinkg to do - as a demonstration of how regimes should work)." Thanks. You saved me some typing. |
| behind blue eyes 14.12.2003 17:56 |
Let me know if it snows and is predicted to stick so I can do something really stupid like drive up IH35 to go play in the snow. It's ok. I'm a licensed trained professional driver.lol I'm also state certified! rloln.D |
| wstüssyb 14.12.2003 18:56 |
the worse you can do to him is hav him sit in USA federal prision with all the luxurys most americans cant afford for the rest of his life, which is whats gonna happen. |
| wstüssyb 14.12.2003 18:58 |
I've worked with dna testing can be done in a matter of minutes if you have a smaple to compare it with. and from his sons they already did have a sample. |
| FairyQueen 14.12.2003 19:48 |
I say...we should have thrown him into the streets of Baghdad and have him ripped into tiny little pieces by his people....I'm so happy we caught the little prick...I understand there is going to be a surge of retaliation attacks..but that's gonna die off once they see Sadaam is not in power...I'm still convinced this was a justified war...you should have heard what that little shit did to women....goddamn monster....unjustified my ass...and now all of the sudden...lookie lookie...france germany and the ones who didn't want to join now want to...I knew that was going to happen..we should leave them and out and tell them eat our dust because you didn't want to be with us since the beginning...we're cleaning up the trash...and as some people don't see...it's not an easy job....We had every right to go in there...we had to fix out mistake from last time...I almost dropped to the floor when Clinton praised Bush today...now that sends a message to the Democrats...that's my opinion.. >:-p |
| Abby Mouser 14.12.2003 19:54 |
Its times like these, in the midst of war and terrorism that i just wish for every bomb in the world to suddenly, unexpectedly explode and destroy the earth. That's all i have to say, right now. |
| Abby Mouser 14.12.2003 19:55 |
"Meet my Melancholy Bluuuuuuueeeeesssss Ahhhhhhhhhh." |
| Mr.Jingles 14.12.2003 19:56 |
THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY ABOUT SADDAM'S CAPTURE. THE GOOD Iraq will no longer live under the opression and regime of terror of Saddam Hussein. But keep in mind that Saddam wasn't really a threat to the rest of the world... at least not as much as to his own people. THE BAD The whole Iraqi invasion was a silly excuse to put the blame on Hussein for 9/11. Now it will make people forget that Bin Laden is still on the run. THE UGLY It might boost Bush's popularity, and help him win the re-election. |
| Holly2003 14.12.2003 21:05 |
To all those claiming this is a war for "freedom" or "democracy" and blaming France Germany etc for not kissing American ass, where were you or what did you say in protest when at least two American administrations SUPPORTED Saddam and turned a blind eye to his atrocities dating back to 1978? Don't you think it's a bit late to get on a high horse now lecturing about human rights, atrocities and mass graves? When the CIA trained Saddam's thugs how to use nerve gas against Iran (which he subsequently used against the Kurds), I don't recall too many of you keyboard-hawk types standing up for human rights and democracy in Iraq. Evil thugs like Somoza, Suharto, Batista, Galtieri, Pinochet, Noriega etc were all created and supported by the US and it's only when they stop obeying orders that the US creates a reason to go to war against them (with Saddam it's weapons of mass destruction or any other administrative reason that Joe Public will swallow, with Noreiga it was drugs even though Bush Snr was head of the CIA and then claimed when he became President that he didn't know about Noreiga's drug running). But don't let little things like the facts get in the way of your ex post-facto moralising. |
| Saffron Caribou 14.12.2003 21:42 |
Wow, I forgot all about Noriega. He is due to be released soon yes? |
| Brandon 15.12.2003 00:55 |
"To all those claiming this is a war for "freedom" or "democracy" and blaming France Germany etc for not kissing American ass, where were you or what did you say in protest when at least two American administrations SUPPORTED Saddam and turned a blind eye to his atrocities dating back to 1978?" --Now that's assuming a bit much, don't you think? Perhaps they were against the US's actions and Saddam back then. Who knows? They could say they were and you'd never know any differently. And perhaps they've changed since then. Or with the advent of the internet, 24 hour news channels and other instant media types, people are much better informed. (Even if they don't live next door to the action...) "Don't you think it's a bit late to get on a high horse now lecturing about human rights, atrocities and mass graves? When the CIA trained Saddam's thugs how to use nerve gas against Iran (which he subsequently used against the Kurds), I don't recall too many of you keyboard-hawk types standing up for human rights and democracy in Iraq." --That was over a decade ago. Not many of those "keyboard-hawk types" had personal keyboards then (Unless they were attached to the typewriter), even less had internet and there was no such thing as Queenzone. Heck, when that happened Fred was still alive and kickin'! And besides, it's never too late to be outraged over mass murder, is it? "Evil thugs like Somoza, Suharto, Batista, Galtieri, Pinochet, Noriega etc were all created and supported by the US and it's only when they stop obeying orders that the US creates a reason to go to war against them (with Saddam it's weapons of mass destruction or any other administrative reason that Joe Public will swallow, with Noreiga it was drugs even though Bush Snr was head of the CIA and then claimed when he became President that he didn't know about Noreiga's drug running). But don't let little things like the facts get in the way of your ex post-facto moralising." --No, a better scenario would be that the people are trained because they are the lesser fo two evils. "My enemy's enemy is my friend" |
| MexQueenFM 15.12.2003 01:40 |
cool, glad they got him |
| Holly2003 15.12.2003 02:47 |
Brandon, you've completely missed the point. If this war was fought for freedom or to stop any more mass graves or to stop rape of Iraqi women or any for any of the other "moral" reasons that are now being trotted out in the absense of any weapons of mass destruction, why did the USA support Saddam when he was doing all those things in the past? The answer is clear: the war was not fought for any of those reasons and for supporters of the war to try NOW to take the high moral ground is laughable. Check our "Diamond Don" Rumsfeld in the link. Won't it be interesting to hear what Saddam has to say at his trial about US support for him for all these years? link |
| dragonzflame 15.12.2003 02:52 |
I don't reckon the Americans WHO SUPPORT THE WAR (just so I don't get attacked by people here) are any better than Saddam and his minions, watever they say. Both massacred innocent people for their own reasons, therefore they suck. I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out becuase I couldn't be arsed reading all four pages. |
| Wreckage 15.12.2003 03:52 |
"My enemy's enemy is my friend" Thank you Brandon. That reason, and that reason only, is why America has had to support some not-very-nice people over the years. American interventions abroad are all about defenidng their interests - security and economic - and nothing else, sod moralism. Somosa, Galtieri, the Shah and Bin laden were backed during the Cold war purely to contain Communism (the number one threat to the U.S. at the time). America is now allied with Musharaf's regime in Pakistan, Russia, China and Saudi Arabia (and was previously allied with Saddam) to contain Islamic Fundamentalism and so-called rogue states(and specifically, because those nations are on the frontline in the battle against Islamic terrorists - again, the number one threat to the U.S.) Morality and ideology does not come into it - the White House is only using the democracy and freedom rhetoric becuase A)LAck of representation (and prosperity)is a root cause of terrorism and B) It's the only way to 'sell' the war to the western public. I'm not saying such rampant self-interest in the world is wrong, but it is inevitable. |
| Holly2003 15.12.2003 05:08 |
"'My enemy's enemy is my friend' Thank you Brandon. That reason, and that reason only, is why America has had to support some not-very-nice people over the years." "Had to" and "not-very-nice" You are correct that this war is not being fought for any of the "moral" reasons now being trotted out but why then can you not be more accurate about the above quote: change the "had to" to "chose to" and "not nice" to "pyschopathic fascist mass murderers." What great threat did Salvador Allende pose to the United States, for example? The CIA had him killed not because he threatened to turn Chile into a communist country but because he wanted to make Chile more democratic. Nelson Mandella was imprisoned for 28 years while almost total US support was given to the racist Afrikaner government - what great threat to the US did he pose? The Vietnamese won their national independence and then went to war with both the Chinese and the Khmer Rouge. Unless I've missed something, Vietnam has never posed any sort of military or economic threat to the US. Since the beginning of the Cold War continuing US admins deliberately over-estimated the threat of the Soviet Union in order to justify their support for fascism around the world. They never have been interested in democracy for democracy's sake alone - as Jean Kirkaptrick once infamously told the UN, the difference between fascists and communists is that the USA can do business with fascists. |
| Brandon 15.12.2003 10:58 |
The US gov't is run by people, therfore it can never be perfect. I don't see however, what your last comments on mandella etc have anything to do with the current situation. |
| Mr Coolest Cat 15.12.2003 11:02 |
A lot of varied oppinions, and a lot of bullshit, but a good talking point, can't wait until Bin Laden is caught. |
| Fenderek 15.12.2003 12:20 |
And who will capture George W. Bush...? |
| Holly2003 15.12.2003 13:14 |
Big Bam, my old china. "The US gov't is run by people, therfore it can never be perfect." I never said the US was perfect, but I do expect people to learn from past "mistakes," not to keep repeating them. "I don't see however, what your last comments on mandella etc have anything to do with the current situation." My comments are a response to wreckage's attempts to portray America as "under threat," thus excusing its support for fascism around the world. They appeared before his post and not after, for some reason. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 16:03 |
I agree with Holly completetly. Excellent post. |
| FairyQueen 15.12.2003 17:19 |
Do your hw....America did support Iraq because it was the lesser of two evils compared to Kuwait...Iraq at that time was the enemy of our enemy...so...you know how history went from there...the country didn't realize even thought he was the lesser of the two evils...he was still evil... |
| Holly2003 15.12.2003 17:53 |
"Do your hw....America did support Iraq because it was the lesser of two evils compared to Kuwait" Hilarious. |
| deleted user 15.12.2003 18:15 |
To all those claiming this is a war for "freedom" or "democracy" and blaming France Germany etc for not kissing American ass, where were you or what did you say in protest when at least two American administrations SUPPORTED Saddam and turned a blind eye to his atrocities dating back to 1978? Don't you think it's a bit late to get on a high horse now lecturing about human rights, atrocities and mass graves? When the CIA trained Saddam's thugs how to use nerve gas against Iran (which he subsequently used against the Kurds), I don't recall too many of you keyboard-hawk types standing up for human rights and democracy in Iraq. Evil thugs like Somoza, Suharto, Batista, Galtieri, Pinochet, Noriega etc were all created and supported by the US and it's only when they stop obeying orders that the US creates a reason to go to war against them (with Saddam it's weapons of mass destruction or any other administrative reason that Joe Public will swallow, with Noreiga it was drugs even though Bush Snr was head of the CIA and then claimed when he became President that he didn't know about Noreiga's drug running). But don't let little things like the facts get in the way of your ex post-facto moralising. I agree 100% Holly. You said a mouth full. There are so many people here (in the US) that still carry a grudge against France and Germany it makes me sick. They had every RIGHT (that is what this country is founded on right?) to say no to the 'almighty' US. What happened to finding Bin Laden? It was slowing down to a pace that the government didn't like. Or more realistically speaking it slowed down to a point where Georgie had to do something to keep his 'ass kicking' image up to par. So he and the Brits made up the WOMD gimic to plot a war that should have never been. If they wanted Sadaam out of there, and stripped of his power, don't tell me they couldn't have sent some special forces and had him assasinated. They didn't have to go to all the trouble of concocting some LIE to do it. But war makes the people happy, and is good for the stumbling economy, and for a president's falling rating. Now what is even worse is that this great terrorist threat in custody, he just got another 4 years in office. And I fear what he will think of next. What country to invade under false pretences. What other lies will he tell to get the patriotic furvor stirred again? Lets hope it isn't any thing to start a WW3. If so, we can all kiss our asses good-bye. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 18:19 |
Well Matt I'm thinking about getting a HUGE tattoo of a pair of lips on my ass, just in case WW3 happens you know. |
| deleted user 15.12.2003 18:22 |
LOL! Me too :) |
| MexQueenFM 15.12.2003 18:33 |
"getting a HUGE tattoo of a pair of lips on my ass" *coughing* what?!?! lips?!?! but why a tattoo only? did that sound perverted? lol |
| FairyQueen 15.12.2003 18:36 |
It's so easy for you to say we could have just gone in there and assassinated them...look at the law for a second and realize we can't assassinate people from other countries...and if we did...the whole world would be up our ass.. bitching..why did we do that for..and people saying "Let's talk it over and see nothing get done for the next 10 billion years"..The war certainly wasn't made up...the economy started going down the crapper while Clinton was president...I'm not saying Clinton was a bad president but that was a fact..look it up..and lets see...oh everyone forgot about Sept.11....that couldn't have affected the economy now would it..I wonder???hmmm....gee whiz..this is a hard one...*looks over in the distance*..are those Iraqi people waving the American and British flag or is it my imagination? Must be because no one sees that...no duh not everyone in Iraq likes what we did.. mainly Sadaams loyalists and others...people don't see that things take time...everyone these days are too stubborn...I'm not saying it's not patriotic to not support the war..it's patriotic if you don't support and patriotic if you do...just remember how many people died for you...Remember do your hw folks...helps out with the classwork later...that's my opinion...I know a lot of you are gonna bash it...but I don't care....cause' it's my belief just like you have one... |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 18:49 |
Mex? Perverted? No no no! You are the most innocent male on this *coughbullshitcough* board! I have to get a tattoo coz its impossible to kiss my own ass! Want to get matching lip tattoos Matt? lol :-P |
| MexQueenFM 15.12.2003 18:51 |
Well, you guys can get the tattoos, i'll provide the lips for your tattoo Marie ;) just tell me when, and send for the airplane ticket :) |
| Holly2003 15.12.2003 19:11 |
"Remember do your hw folks" Every time you say that I'm gonna remind you that you didn't know the difference between Iran & Kuwait. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 19:12 |
FairyQueen you have the right to express your opinion as much as you have to respect others. This war wasn't supposed to be about Sept. 11/01. The War in Iraq was a war with other motives around Iraq, and the supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction that haven't been found yet, if they exist. Now that Saddam has been captured, he says that there isn't any Weapons of Mass Destruction. After what happened on 9/11 (which is a sad moment in history no matter what), the focus was to hunt for Bin Laden. Now that the CIA, the First World governments haven't found him yet, and yes the US economy has dwindled by the terrorist attack. The US and UK, needed to pick an enemy to make a war. Because, and unfortunatetly, war does boost up the economy. However, while people go to war (because they registered, no one forced them to), the shift sways to the war, and completetly ignores the main concerns of the country (i.e. US) such as improving education, decreasing crime, health care, and other important issues. I wouldn't vote for a president so he or she could invade another country in order to "destroy" a tyrant or "democritise" a country. It's absurd. If this war was truly, and purely done for economic reasons, such as oil, and to improve the US economy it's shady, pathetic, and wrong! Still, this is another purpose for Globalisation, the utter "Americanisation" of the world. You might think, "Oh but what about Iraq, Saddam being a threat to my country". That's hogwash IMO. We haven't heard from Saddam since the Gulf War. When the CIA couldnt find Bin Laden, the US and UK government needed a new bone to pick, and they chose Saddam. Some say that Saddam was picked because of Bush and his motive to finish what Bush Snr started, or the infamous, and still not proven (as far as I know) that Saddam was plotting to kill Bush Snr. Remember this, the US were the ones that placed Saddam in power back in the 70's, and the ones that gave Saddam chemical weapons to use against Iran. Also remember that the CIA trained Bin Laden during the Afghanistan conflict in the early 80's. This just proves how futile the US's foreign policies are. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 19:14 |
Feck the plane ticket Mex! Sheesh! :-P |
| FairyQueen 15.12.2003 19:24 |
I agree with you on what we did with Sadaam in the past..I know that's true....but I explained before why we did it(all about kuwait..lesser evils bigger evils and all that jazz) and should learn from past mistakes...I'm not saying your're wrong...I'm saying I know and that's why pencils have erasers...of course he's been quiet but...you should have seen the pics from when he killed 10000 kurds..I almost puked when I saw all those mass graves..and I know we made a mistake by leaving them there...well...we got back at saddaam and brought his butt down...we could have went into Iraq on human rights alone..he did rape many women..and also considering killing the widows of the men he killed when they went to Saddaam...he was just a disgusting man...now he's a disgusting bum...but your facts about what happened in the past are true... |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 19:39 |
FairyQueen you are right about the Kurds, Saddam was a mass murderer. I never said he wasn't. However, the whole war wasn't to get Saddam but it was to uncover these weapons that are nowhere to be found. Saddam has done some atrocities, and the Iraqui people seem (I say seem, because I don't know how they live nor I know whats really going on there. I don't rely my views towards US newscasts who are biased) to have suffered a lot. I would never forgive a mass murderer no matter what their motives were. I just don't agree with the motives of the war. Why should the US have to stick their noses into every problem in every single country in this world?! Doesn't the US have their own problems?! Why is the crime rate so high in the US? Why is education so mediocre in the US? Why is there a high unemployment rate?; amognst other problems. Should the US government emphasise in making their country a good, heathly, and well educated country? They shouldnt waste their time in being a Messiah imo. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 19:53 |
Another comment that I'd like to add that is war is terrorism, which I have said before. Still, in the past century there has been higher mortality rates due to conflicts involving in the US than any other mass murder or war not involving the US. I believe that a country should defend for itself IF (a big IF) the country is really threatened by another country or opponent. Still this doesn't justify this War in Iraq or this Operation Freedom. I believe that if a country has a real conflict with a neighbouring country, outsiders shouldnt inflitrate themselves in it. Let the people fend for themselves. About the rapes, listen, I live in Puerto Rico, and from the late 40's till last year the US military has occupied the little island of Vieques in order to train there. Now since the US occupied that island they were forced to live with the citizens there, and unfortunatetly, mostly during the 40's towards 70's, a lot of civilian women and young ladies were raped by US soldiers. That is very sickening, and degrading. So mass rape doesn't happen in tyranical countries only. |
| deleted user 15.12.2003 20:09 |
'It's so easy for you to say we could have just gone in there and assassinated them...look at the law for a second and realize we can't assassinate people from other countries' Thats true. Only from our own. 'The war certainly wasn't made up' No it wan't made up. Never said it was. I said the reason for the war was fabricated. There are no weapons of mass destruction. And there never were. Bush didn't like Saddam. He was a tryrant. And I agree he was. If that was the reason for the war, then be honest and tell us that. Don't hang on to the getting old 'terrorist threat' story. Tell the truth for a change. 'oh everyone forgot about Sept.11....that couldn't have affected the economy now would it..I wonder???hmmm....gee whiz..this is a hard one...' Not really smarty pants. That was a tragic event. Not war. There is a big difference. while there are tragic things in war, what happened on 9-11 was not war related. So the economy acted in a way to correspond to that event. 'no duh not everyone in Iraq likes what we did..' Most of them don't. They are not a 'western' country. They have lived under a completely different life style, and ruling system. Let them pick it. Why does the US have to force democrocy down their throats? Because they want to 'western-ize' the world, and make everyone want to join the 'coalition of the willing'. ...just remember how many people died for you...' How many died for me? No one died for me. They died for an idea of Freedom. To keep the US free. So don't give me that crap. How many died in Viet Nam? 58,168. For what? Freedom for the people in the US? No. 'Remember do your hw folks...helps out with the classwork later' If you need to, I have some books you can read. Smart ass. |
| Saffron Caribou 15.12.2003 20:18 |
Reading back in your post FairyQ I have to agree with Holly here, there is a HUGE difference between Iraq and Kuwait. |
| sebdevos 16.12.2003 07:33 |
Just one point who made me crazy. I hate this Saddam, his capture is a good thing, sure, but when I heard Rumsfeld said "Hussein tried to pass himself for a courageous man, in fact he is just a weak parasite, I wanted to say to him, ok my courageous Donald, go into a 3m2 hole under ground for six months, we'll see if you are still so courageous after that !" |
| sebdevos 16.12.2003 07:38 |
The other point which make me crazy is : US has attacked Irak because Saddam "owned" mass destruction weapons. Now they got Saddam, but after one year, they still don't have find one only weapon in the country, and the capture of Saddam will legitimate their action, although their only goal was the oil, as they knew they were absolutely no weapons ! |
| Mr Coolest Cat 16.12.2003 12:05 |
Just wait a while and we'll soon find the WOMD, its only a matter of time before Saddam starts squealing like the stuffed pig he is. Also had to laugh yesterday, Jacqes Chirac, and Gerhard Schroeder sent telegrams to George Bush congratulating American on the capture, saying " Saddam Hussein caused horrible suffering to the region, and we hope the capture will help the international community's effort to rebuild Iraq" what a bloody cheek, if France and Germany had got their way, Saddam would still be in power causing untold atrocities. |
| iron eagle 16.12.2003 16:07 |
Revelations from an Iraqi scientist RAY SUAREZ: The task of finding that definitive proof falls in part to specialized teams within the US Military. New York times" correspondent Judith Miller is reporting on the search conducted by units of the 75th exploitation task force. And she joins us now by phone south of Baghdad. Judith Miller, welcome back to the program. Has the unit you've been traveling with found any proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? JUDITH MILLER: Well, I think they found something more than a "smoking gun." What they've found is what is being called here by the members of MET Alpha-- that's Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha-- what they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person, an Iraqi individual, a scientist, as we've called him, who really worked on the programs, who knows them firsthand, and who has led MET Team Alpha people to some pretty startling conclusions that have kind of challenged the American intelligence community's under... previous understanding of, you know, what we thought the Iraqis were doing. RAY SUAREZ: Does this confirm in a way the insistence coming from the U.S. government that after the war, various Iraqi tongues would loosen, and there might be people who would be willing to help? JUDITH MILLER: Yes, it clearly does. I mean, it's become pretty clear to those of us on the ground that the international inspectors, without actually controlling the territory and changing the political environment, would never have been able to get these people to step forward. I mean, you can only do that when you know there is not going to be a secret policeman at your door the next day, and that your family isn't going to suffer because you're talking. And that's what the Bush administration has finally done. They have changed the political environment, and they've enabled people like the scientists that MET Alpha has found to come forth. Now, what initially the weapons hunters thought they were going to find were stockpiles of kind of chemical and biological agents. That's what they anticipated finding. We now know from the scientist that, in fact, that probably isn't what we're going to find. What they will find, and what they have found so far, are kind of precursors; that is, building blocks of what you would need to put together a chemical or a biological weapon. But those stockpiles that we've heard about, well, those have either been destroyed by Saddam Hussein, according to the scientists, or they have been shipped to Syria for safekeeping. And what I think the interpretation of the MET Alpha people is, is why he did this. They believe that Saddam Hussein wanted to destroy the evidence of his unconventional weapons programs, and that's what he has done-- not only since 1995, but also in the weeks and months that led up to the war itself. There was mass destruction. And the scientist who has been cooperating with MET Alpha has actually said that he participated in... he kind of watched, you know, a warehouse being burned that contained potentially incriminating biological equipment. So clearly what Saddam Hussein wanted to do was cover his weapons of mass destruction tracks. And that means that the whole shape of the hunt here on the ground for unconventional weapons is changing. Uncovering the tracks of Iraq's WMD program RAY SUAREZ: When you develop a site through U.S. intelligence or from a source like the scientist you've been telling us about, how long does it take the unit you're traveling with to give it a good going over, figure out whether there's anything there that needs further inspection? JUDITH MILLER: Well, let me give you an example. MET Alpha and I spent nearly a week at a place called the Karbala Ammunitions Production and Filling Station. This was a vast facility: Over 50 buildings, five square miles worth of ammunition, mortars, shells, and buried containers that were then ripped open by MET Alpha people. And what they |
| Holly2003 16.12.2003 17:19 |
"Reassessing [Judith] Miller: U.S. intelligence on Iraq's WMD deserves a second look. So does the reporting of the New York Times' Judith Miller." link "Lay all Judith Miller's New York Times stories end to end, from late 2001 to June 2003 and you get a desolate picture of a reporter with an agenda, both manipulating and being manipulated by US government officials, Iraqi exiles and defectors" link |
| iron eagle 16.12.2003 17:49 |
United States forces and Central Intelligence Agency experts have found no proof of banned weapons in Iraq and have determined that that country's nuclear weapons programme was in the "very most rudimentary state", the US Congress was told on Thursday. "It clearly does not look like a massive resurgent programme based on what we've discovered now," David Kay, head of the 1,400-person Iraq Survey Group, which is searching for banned weapons in Iraq, told House and Senate intelligence committees. Before invading Iraq, the Bush administration had said the Saddam Hussein regime had a well-developed nuclear programme. He said the group had found evidence of "an intent of senior level Iraqi officials, including Saddam, to continue production at some future point in time of weapons of mass destruction". Kay said the group also found missiles and other equipment not declared to the United Nations weapons inspectors. "This includes substantial equipment and activity in the chemical and biological area, a much more substantial activity in the missile area; the Iraqis were engaged in a very full-scale programme that would have extended their delivery systems out beyond 1,000 kilometres," he said. "That is enough to reach Ankara, Cairo, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh; these were both ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles that would fit a Chinese Silkworm (missile)," the former UN weapons inspector said. He said there was a lot of work to be done "before we can declare we're at the end of this road rather than at the beginning. We have found a great deal, much of which was not declared to the United Nations". The search by Kay's team is expected to continue for another six to nine months. link |
