| e-man 23.08.2020 16:56 |
watched the Budapest blu ray today, including the little documentary included. Jim Beach's final thoughts on the future of Queen seem almost frightenly on the money, knowing how events unfolded past 1986... Now - we all know he has gone on record saying he knew Freddie was ill before the band knew. Do we have an estimate on when this was? By all accounts, Freddie knew about his condition late spring 87. I'm sure he didn't inform Jim Beach right away... Watching the documentary today, which must have been filmed in between 1986 and the release of the Magic Years video, I can't help but think he may have known the writing on the wall. Maybe not a word had been said by anyone, but the comments he made, about how he can see Queen continue to record, and that the band probably will continue in some form or another, seem almost too spot on for someone who had no clue what was to come... |
| miraclesteinway 23.08.2020 17:32 |
Actually I just watched the particular clip you're talking about and I didn't see this as a reference to Freddie's HIV status. In the 1980s, those massive acts such as Queen and The Stones in the UK were just reaching a level of maturity. They'd come through the excesses of the 1970s, they'd had to navigate through the new pop landscape of the mid-80s, and they'd reached a level of success where money was not even a consideration anymore. They could have retired in 1980, to be honest, and lived out the rest of their days incredibly comfortably even if they'd all decided to do absolutely nothing for work, and they'd still be able to live a lavish lifestyle off the old hits. I saw it as Jim Beach recognising that the band had a lot of ego clashes, and that by 1985 they didn't want to work together, the albums were obviously coming at a slower rate and they were shorter. Freddie had already told Jim Beach that he probably didn't want to tour for a while, and he already knew that he was going to make a second solo album, and the Montserrat project was happening *in spite* of his diagnosis rather than because of it. The thing is that Freddie was probably pretty tired after the Magic Tour (let's face it, he was already ill then even if he didn't quite know or acknowledge what was happening), and just wanted time to reflect. The other band members had said of that time, and Peter Freestone had said of that time, that they suspected something was wrong, but they either didn't know or didn't want to know. There's evidence that Freddie probably actually knew he was at least HIV positive as early as 1985, possibly even 84, and that has been thrashed out on this forum too many times. Here, Jim Beach was talking about a band who were becoming too big for their own creativity, who needed a rest, and were on the verge of splitting up. |
| Misfire. 23.08.2020 18:38 |
Quite strange that you quote that the band were on the verge of splitting up yet on the "Magic" tour Freddie says " There's been some rumours lately about a certain band called Queen splitting up (he points his ass at the crowd and says "what do you think" "There talking from here " He also goes on to say "Were gonna be together until we fucking well die i tell you " I heard rumours that Freddie could have been HIV positive from as far back as 1982 and that he contracted the disease from Brazil, any truth in that ? |
| Anton3283 23.08.2020 19:44 |
Benross wrote: Quite strange that you quote that the band were on the verge of splitting up yet on the "Magic" tour Freddie says " There's been some rumours lately about a certain band called Queen splitting up (he points his ass at the crowd and says "what do you think" "There talking from here " He also goes on to say "Were gonna be together until we fucking well die i tell you " I heard rumours that Freddie could have been HIV positive from as far back as 1982 and that he contracted the disease from Brazil, any truth in that ?quite. strange that man who doesn't know Queen discography dares to talk when who was contracted |
| miraclesteinway 23.08.2020 20:03 |
Queen were on the verge of splitting up before Live Aid, and yes they'd improved their relationship by the Magic Tour, but Jim Beach was probably talking via the past experience. Remember, during that interview, the Magic Tour hadn't actually happened. I think that was part of the EPK for the tour and album. And as for when Freddie contracted HIV? I don't think Freddie even knew. He knew he had developed AIDS in 1987, and I think that's really all he could know. Even a doctor couldn't pinpoint it. People talk about him showing signs in 1984. Perhaps. In 1982, HIV hadn't been identified, so who can know? |
| The Real Wizard 23.08.2020 21:09 |
Benross wrote: Quite strange that you quote that the band were on the verge of splitting up yet on the "Magic" tour Freddie says " There's been some rumours lately about a certain band called Queen splitting up (he points his ass at the crowd and says "what do you think" "There talking from here " He also goes on to say "Were gonna be together until we fucking well die i tell you "He said that in front of 80,000 people to get a response from them. It doesn't necessarily reflect reality. He gave the same speech throughout 1984, when they actually were on the fritz. |
| The Real Wizard 23.08.2020 21:13 |
miraclesteinway wrote: And as for when Freddie contracted HIV? I don't think Freddie even knew.He definitely knew on the Magic tour. Mary Austin was quoted in recent years saying she was at stage right when Mercury came off stage at Knebworth: "The last tour, he knew, and it was really hard work for him, working through the emotional pain knowing that it was going to be his last tour. Watching him walk off stage, I feel pain now. Just that look of him walking off. I looked at him, he looked at me, and it's that knowing that this has to be the last one." |
| FreddieDearie 23.08.2020 21:20 |
The Real Wizard wrote:For the record, I don’t think Mary was only speaking of Knebworth.miraclesteinway wrote: And as for when Freddie contracted HIV? I don't think Freddie even knew.He definitely knew on the Magic tour. Mary Austin was quoted in recent years saying she was at stage right when Mercury came off stage at Knebworth: "The last tour, he knew, and it was really hard work for him, working through the emotional pain knowing that it was going to be his last tour. Watching him walk off stage, I feel pain now. Just that look of him walking off. I looked at him, he looked at me, and it's that knowing that this has to be the last one." |
| The Real Wizard 23.08.2020 21:31 |
FreddieDearie wrote:You're right - "the last one" could be referring to the tour as a whole. So considering she was based in London, she was probably at a number of the UK dates.The Real Wizard wrote:For the record, I don’t think Mary was only speaking of Knebworth.miraclesteinway wrote: And as for when Freddie contracted HIV? I don't think Freddie even knew.He definitely knew on the Magic tour. Mary Austin was quoted in recent years saying she was at stage right when Mercury came off stage at Knebworth: "The last tour, he knew, and it was really hard work for him, working through the emotional pain knowing that it was going to be his last tour. Watching him walk off stage, I feel pain now. Just that look of him walking off. I looked at him, he looked at me, and it's that knowing that this has to be the last one." |
| Costa86 24.08.2020 08:36 |
I've said this a few times before here, and while I can make no claims of having any inside knowledge or of being definitely 100% correct, I think the below viewpoint is most likely true: Freddie "knew" he had HIV by 1985. Why do I say this? In 1985, the first HIV test - the ELISA assay - became available. By 1985, Freddie was likely experiencing some early symptoms of HIV infection. Even if he wasn't, he would have known in 1985 that people he had slept with were dying of AIDS. This would almost certainly have prompted him to get tested. In 1985, the number of false positive and false negatives were high. Freddie likely got tested a number of times that year, with some results coming back as positive, and others negative. If, for instance, he got three positive tests and one negative, he would likely cling to the hope that he was HIV negative. He would have taken more tests in 1986, with the same results: mostly positives, but a negative here and there. Mary Austin said that, during the Magic Tour, he "knew" he had HIV. This is almost certainly accurate, and he would have known 1. based on the test results, 2. based on symptoms he was experiencing, and 3. based on the fact that people he had slept with had died of AIDS. In 1987 the "definitive" proof he had HIV came. It was in the form of a biopsy of a skin lesion. The biopsy confirmed the lesion was Kaposi's sarcoma, a type of cancer which at the time was a telltale sign of AIDS. This means that in 1987 his HIV has progressed to AIDS, meaning his CD4 cells has been depleted to such a degree that he was experiencing "full blown AIDS" (this term is no longer used). Now take what you want from this, but I am confident it is accurate. Regarding the subject of this post - when Jim Beach knew - I would wager that he got to know for sure in 1987, but that, as Queen's manager, he might have caught wind of Freddie's positive tests before that. Let's also keep in mind that Freddie was already at the AIDS stage of HIV infection in late summer 1986, as evidenced by a Kaposi's sarcoma lesion on his face during his trip to Japan with Jim Hutton (clearly seen in photos from the time). |
| Petal 24.08.2020 08:54 |
This is a subject that comes up often and all people can do is guess. Only Freddie really knew how he felt and how he dealt with it. Its an uncomfortable topic because some of the dates thrown around by people mean that Freddie knew when he was still sleeping around and he didn't care. Judging by what Monty said , the way he reacted to her when he knew he had AIDS tells me that Freddie would not have acted so irresponsily had known he had HIV prior to knowing he had AIDS. I believe it would have been on his mind seeing as friends had died but I don't think he wanted to face it. Who would knowing it was a death sentence. He thought he was invincible and hoped it wouldn't happen to him. I don't think we can take what Mary said as 100% credible . keeping loyal to Freddie and not betraying him and then doing an interview in 2011 saying Freddie knew he had HIV during the magic tour. He was in a relationship and living in GL with Joe F & Peter F and didn't say a word. Doesn't add up. As soon as he knew he had AIDS he told them so why wouldn't he have told them if he knew he was HIV positive. I really don't see him going through the so called emotional pain and her standing there when he came off stage and him giving her a look. Doesn't add up to the Freddie we know off when he did know he had AIDS. When he came off stage he seemed to be surrounded by the roadies, Joe F, Terry G etc and whisked straight off to where ever he was going. I think he was exhausted because he obviously was HIV positive and because it was such a big stage. As Mike Moran said, he was amazing as he would run around stage for 2 hours singing his arse off. No wonder he was exhausted, he was human after all and from what we know, didn't seem to prepare that much physically for tours. He didn't even really look after his voice as much as he should have. Even Brian has said he often said he didn't want to tour again after each tour. It was a life living in hotels , going from one hotel room to another, that has to wear thin after a while. I think its topic flogged to death with no real answers. |
| Mkls 24.08.2020 10:11 |
"You're right - "the last one" could be referring to the tour as a whole. So considering she was based in London, she was probably at a number of the UK dates. " plus Budapest for sure.. |
| miraclesteinway 24.08.2020 16:38 |
I agree that he definitely knew by the Magic Tour he was unwell, and he was probably aware as early as 1984, but most likely by Live Aid he had a fair idea. Just to clarify, I was responding to the claim that Freddie contracted HIV in 1982 in Brazil, and I would find it likely that Freddie had no idea when he actually contracted the virus. As for Freddie sleeping around, well, even in 1986 there were ways to sleep around more safely but I don't really want to delve into conjecture about what exactly happened in a mid-80s encounter with Freddie in the bedroom. That said if I was old enough in the mid-80s and I was on the gay scene, and Freddie approached me, I'd have probably been seduced by him! He was incredibly charismatic in his presence and very good looking in the way he carried himself. There are survivors of HIV from the first wave of the epidemic who are now in their 60s and 70s, and many of them don't even know when they contracted it although some say they can pinpoint a time that they first felt unwell. I've always wondered why some survived and others didn't, but I guess it's down to things like physical health, viral load, and Freddie's drug and alcohol use earlier in his life was probably a contributory factor unfortunately. He really wasn't that different to anybody else on the 70s and 80s party scene, except he could afford what he wanted exactly when he wanted it. I'm quite sure I'd have been the same in his shoes. |
| Costa86 25.08.2020 05:56 |
We can't frame the chain of events related to Freddie and HIV in the 1980s within the context of today.
As I said in my post above, in the mid-1980s the number of false positive from HIV tests was high. Freddie was probably not completely certain he had HIV before the 1987 skin lesion biopsy. He would have been clinging on to hope, but, at the same time, he knew in his heart of hearts that all was not right.
It is completely not unusual for someone like Freddie - mega famous, intensely private - to hide his HIV status from practically everyone until it was impossible not to do so. And we should not judge him on this with today's ruler.
Petal wrote: This is a subject that comes up often and all people can do is guess. Only Freddie really knew how he felt and how he dealt with it. Its an uncomfortable topic because some of the dates thrown around by people mean that Freddie knew when he was still sleeping around and he didn't care. Judging by what Monty said , the way he reacted to her when he knew he had AIDS tells me that Freddie would not have acted so irresponsily had known he had HIV prior to knowing he had AIDS. I believe it would have been on his mind seeing as friends had died but I don't think he wanted to face it. Who would knowing it was a death sentence. He thought he was invincible and hoped it wouldn't happen to him. I don't think we can take what Mary said as 100% credible . keeping loyal to Freddie and not betraying him and then doing an interview in 2011 saying Freddie knew he had HIV during the magic tour. He was in a relationship and living in GL with Joe F & Peter F and didn't say a word. Doesn't add up. As soon as he knew he had AIDS he told them so why wouldn't he have told them if he knew he was HIV positive. I really don't see him going through the so called emotional pain and her standing there when he came off stage and him giving her a look. Doesn't add up to the Freddie we know off when he did know he had AIDS. When he came off stage he seemed to be surrounded by the roadies, Joe F, Terry G etc and whisked straight off to where ever he was going. I think he was exhausted because he obviously was HIV positive and because it was such a big stage. As Mike Moran said, he was amazing as he would run around stage for 2 hours singing his arse off. No wonder he was exhausted, he was human after all and from what we know, didn't seem to prepare that much physically for tours. He didn't even really look after his voice as much as he should have. Even Brian has said he often said he didn't want to tour again after each tour. It was a life living in hotels , going from one hotel room to another, that has to wear thin after a while. I think its topic flogged to death with no real answers. |
| JoeRinna 27.08.2020 01:58 |
e-man wrote: watched the Budapest blu ray today, including the little documentary included. Jim Beach's final thoughts on the future of Queen seem almost frightenly on the money, knowing how events unfolded past 1986... Now - we all know he has gone on record saying he knew Freddie was ill before the band knew. Do we have an estimate on when this was? By all accounts, Freddie knew about his condition late spring 87. I'm sure he didn't inform Jim Beach right away... Watching the documentary today, which must have been filmed in between 1986 and the release of the Magic Years video, I can't help but think he may have known the writing on the wall. Maybe not a word had been said by anyone, but the comments he made, about how he can see Queen continue to record, and that the band probably will continue in some form or another, seem almost too spot on for someone who had no clue what was to come...I agree, it seems like he knew there was an issue in the back of his mind. |
| FreddieDearie 27.08.2020 06:30 |
Costa86 wrote: We can't frame the chain of events related to Freddie and HIV in the 1980s within the context of today. As I said in my post above, in the mid-1980s the number of false positive from HIV tests was high. Freddie was probably not completely certain he had HIV before the 1987 skin lesion biopsy. He would have been clinging on to hope, but, at the same time, he knew in his heart of hearts that all was not right. It is completely not unusual for someone like Freddie - mega famous, intensely private - to hide his HIV status from practically everyone until it was impossible not to do so. And we should not judge him on this with today's ruler.Agreed 100000000000%. My best friend who did die from AIDS in ’98... For YEARS would go through phases. Sometimes he’d be calling me in the middle of the night with symptoms asking me if I thought he was infected. Scratchy throat, I got a call, a very slight fever, I got a call, a rash..got a call, a stye on his eye, got a call Then for a while, he didn't talk about it at all because he would just get so stressed from the constant worrying, and he would be in denial. People did not trust the tests because they were unreliable and many didn't trust the government, Felt that the government was utliling the disease to shame and scare gay people into not engaging in sex. |
| lavernwalter 27.08.2020 09:16 |
. A warm embrace. To make you feel my love run 3 |
| FreddieDearie 27.08.2020 19:52 |
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| MiracleTour1989 27.08.2020 21:39 |
Very good question. Now I'd like to take a look at the Jim Beach comments in question, which I've probably seen at some point. It's always fascinating to try to know things no one will likely ever know. So things like this are intriguing. |
| Saint Jiub 28.08.2020 00:11 |
MiracleTour1989 wrote: It's always fascinating to try to know things no one will likely ever know.Like how Freddie had gay friends that he could comfortably hang around with? |
| MiracleTour1989 28.08.2020 11:08 |
Fascinating to know what Jim Beach knew in 1986. |