| greaserkat 31.05.2020 20:20 |
Im curious to see/hear how the rest of the world is reacting to the protests/riots that are occuring in major cities across the USA for the death of George Floydnat thenhand of a police officer. Here is a picture of where all these protests and riots are occuring. |
| The Real Wizard 01.06.2020 01:39 |
The combination of the Trump administration's poor response to the pandemic, centuries of systematic racism, a now almost non-existent middle class, and the worst unemployment since the great depression has resulted in a dumpster fire the world is now watching burn without a shred of surprise. And instead of offering a word to bring calm, Trump is unsurprisingly egging on authorities to be more forceful while methodically branding those protesting systematic racism as "thugs," effectively fanning the flames of racism to keep his base happy. It began with his support of the white supremacists in Charlottesville, and in the ensuing couple years the country has now successfully regressed over 150 years on the rapist in chief's watch. And nearly half the country still thinks everything is just fine, because Fox News told them it is. Meanwhile Joe Biden spent the day in Delaware chatting with black protesters, with a mask on and with social distancing. And that's without mentioning the military industrial complex, the evangelical Christian lobby, tens of millions still without health insurance, and gun violence. We're watching the fall of an empire. And thanks to social media, the world can watch in real time. The country may not even make it to the next election. Stay safe. |
| Saint Jiub 02.06.2020 02:38 |
It is pitiful that one must glorify a "dumpster fire". The gloating over this "dumpster fire" dishonors the many peaceful daytime protestors, and glorifies the opportunist outsiders that invaded Aurora IL in the dark of night.. link |
| Holly2003 02.06.2020 08:00 |
If conservative white America continues to sit silently, or even to support the murder of unarmed black citizens by paramilitary police then they are responsible for and indeed deserve everything that happens as a result of that. |
| Holly2003 02.06.2020 18:09 |
Great speech by Joe Biden today. The right words, the right tone, spoken at the right time. But will anyone listen? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aWDG87nJo |
| Saint Jiub 03.06.2020 00:38 |
"There's no excuse for the kind of violence that we saw yesterday. It is counterproductive," Obama said at a press conference from the White House. "When individuals get crowbars and start prying open doors to loot, they're not protesting. They're not making a statement. They're stealing. When they burn down a building, they're committing arson. And they're destroying and undermining businesses and opportunities in their own communities. That robs jobs and opportunity from people in that area." The above quote is regarding Baltimore in 2015. The organized looting by opportunists (Uhauls and cars lining up for looting) is not a legitimate protest. link link |
| Holly2003 03.06.2020 08:08 |
It's an indictment against white America that if George Floyd's murder wasn't caught on camera the cops that murdered him would likely still be on duty, protected by institutional racism, their militarised police colleagues, and the ignorance, racism and deafening silence of white America, all personified by a fuckwit president. As I said, keep ignoring it and everything that comes after is inevitable. |
| richrich 04.06.2020 01:50 |
@Holly2003: I was once talking to a blatant liberal - he was standing opposed to me, his eyeballs black and hot. He didn't say anything, he just stared at me and made purring noises. |
| The Real Wizard 04.06.2020 02:53 |
Holly2003 wrote: It's an indictment against white America that if George Floyd's murder wasn't caught on camera the cops that murdered him would likely still be on duty, protected by institutional racism, their militarised police colleagues, and the ignorance, racism and deafening silence of white America, all personified by a fuckwit president.Bingo. Although I wouldn't be quick to dismiss 45 as a "fuckwit" - he knows exactly what he's doing. Pieces like this are a combination of heartbreaking and infuriating: link America is an inherently racist country. It was founded by slave owners, for crying out loud. Things have barely improved since colonial times. Redlining still exists. The plantations still exist - they were just relocated to the jails so that they'd be out of sight. Ever since the Southern Strategy was implemented, every single Republican at every level of government has been complicit while in office. And over 40% of America has no problem with any of this. It's inspiring to see how mobilized people are at this moment in history, but it's far too late. There is just too much ignorance and hatred on the right, and it will never go away. The time to fix it was before the alt right took over places like 4chan and reddit, where 14 year old kids are now red pilled with "alt lite" guys like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, and soon enough Breitbart or Daily Stormer is their primary news source. Even most liberally minded folk over the age of 30 have no idea any of this exists, never mind old dudes in rural Kentucky who think Reagan was a nice guy. There are a million things in this world that can be fixed - racism in America isn't one of them. |
| The Real Wizard 04.06.2020 03:34 |
Saint Jiub wrote: It is pitiful that one must glorify a "dumpster fire".It's not glorifying - it's illustrating reality with the necessary language to convey the urgency of the situation. America has been a dumpster fire since colonial times. Ask 100 black people and Hispanics within your borders. At least 99 of them will agree. And it was designed that way. An individualist and capitalist society with no social safety net built on the inherent idea of pursuing liberty and success at the expense of others is not one where people en masse will help abolish racism (or solve any other social issue) even if they're aware of it. They get their piece of the pie, and then it's don't tread on me. Yesterday the president brought in the army to clear away peaceful protesters with tear gas and flash grenades so that he could do a White House photo op with a bible in hand to appease his evangelical base. You know who brings in the army to defend them from their own people? Dictators. Watch this in full and tell me American democracy is not in peril: If you don't think your country is a dumpster fire, both literally and figuratively, then you haven't been watching carefully enough. The experiment that is America is about to fail. To most who are a visible minority it has already failed by the time they're 8. Now it's your turn. Be prepared. |
| Saint Jiub 04.06.2020 05:11 |
I agree that Trump should not have unleashed tear gas, flash grenedes and mounted police on peaceful protestors. I also agree that Trump should have been more diplomatic than "when the looting starts the shooting starts". However, the rest of Seth Myers diatribe is his garbage masquerading as humor. I doubt you read anything i previously presented, as your cognitive bias, arrogance and gloating would not allow it. I cannot believe you can legitimitize organized looting. Here is another article you won't read to completion: link In my small suburban hometown only one building was looted. Can you guess the building? It was the marijuana dispensory which has fuck-all to do with peaceful protesting. |
| The Real Wizard 04.06.2020 07:03 |
You may not like Meyers' humour, but can you point out one factually inaccurate part of that clip? The looting sucks. Obviously. Nobody apart from a small minority of anarchists is in support of it. Your suggestion that I feel otherwise is a straw man argument, as I hadn't even mentioned it. That column you linked to is a gish gallop of Fox news talking points, designed to change the channel from the actual story (side point: the suggestion that Joe Biden is far left is laughable - by European standards he would be centre-right). The actual story - since the inception of the United States, to this day, there has been systematic racism in place. The current incarnation of it began with the COINTELPRO program started by J Edgar Hoover after the success of the civil rights movement, aiming to control the narrative by sowing doubts in people's minds that those fighting for equality were the enemy. The program may not exist anymore, but its principles continue to exist in today's right wing media, like that column you linked to. Your fixation on the small minority of anarchists doing the looting instead of the root of the problem - racism that has existed for centuries - proves that they continue to be successful. If you want to help solve the problems your country faces, stop posting garbage like this on internet forums and educate yourself about America's longstanding history of racism. Then you can participate in the discussion, the solution, and the healing. |
| Holly2003 04.06.2020 07:20 |
Conservatives want to focus on looting so they don't have to talk about George Floyd's murder. And if forced to talk about the man's murder, I expect to hear the "one bad egg" excuse deployed again. |
| Amidds 04.06.2020 13:29 |
Just something to think about. Instead of hating a group of people because of their beliefs (Democrats or Republicans), it might benefit us all if we tried acceptance and understanding. Blind hatred gets us nowhere and makes you that person you are complaining about. If you must insist on an Us vs. Them mentality, shouldn't it be the people vs. politicians? You can take a side all you want and blame the other for every negative thing that's ever happened, BUT, if you look back, you will see that both sides have used us for votes, power and money. Very few have our best interest at heart. Maybe it's time we do more than point fingers and stop blindly putting our trust and faith into a political system that has failed us time and again from BOTH sides. We all need to wake up and start trying to make changes to the upper level instead of just sitting back, pointing fingers and insulting people who, if you listen closely, want the same things we do (yes, there are always exceptions). If we stopped aligning ourselves with the people causing the problems and band together, we will eventually make the changes we all need. |
| The Real Wizard 04.06.2020 18:03 |
Amidds wrote: Just something to think about. Instead of hating a group of people because of their beliefs (Democrats or Republicans), it might benefit us all if we tried acceptance and understanding. Blind hatred gets us nowhere and makes you that person you are complaining about. If you must insist on an Us vs. Them mentality, shouldn't it be the people vs. politicians?That kind of simplistic dualistic thinking just doesn't work in practicality, especially in a country where over 40% of the people support a racist president. It's them who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of the hate, not people who are fighting for marginalized people's basic rights to exist. We should not be branding the people who are fed up with racism as also being filled with "hate". That's precisely what Trump did when he said there were "very fine people on both sides" in Charlottesville - as if Nazis and people fighting Nazis are somehow equal opposites. Furthermore, this false notion that there are only two ways to think pervades so much of American discourse. The two party system has most people thinking there are only two possible ways to think - "my" way or the "wrong" way. Indeed, both parties have their flaws, but the Democratic party has not spent the last several decades passing legislation to destroy education, the environment, and the institution of government itself. That solely lies on the Republicans - particularly Mitch McConnell. People who support a racist president absolutely do not "want the same things" non-racists want. Your enthusiasm for finding middle ground is admirable, but the reality is - you live in a country where about half its citizens are not interested in helping anyone but themselves. And we're going to need more than platitudes to solve this problem. |
| Amidds 04.06.2020 18:25 |
That's exactly what I was talking about. Let's just hate a whole group of people instead of just the few who might actually deserve it. Without objectivity, history will continue to repeat itself. Can't blame others if we're not willing to change. Simplicity? Yes, it could and should be. |
| The Real Wizard 04.06.2020 18:28 |
But it isn't. We're grownups, and solving problems like 400 years of racism isn't simple. History is only repeating itself because your country isn't doing anything about racism. The root causes have rarely been addressed. The last time it tried to, the nation's greatest philosopher was assassinated (unless you count Obama, in which case you can thank the current US president for discrediting his efforts in the form of helping convince 3/4 of Republicans that he was born in Kenya). You're right - it isn't the majority of America's fault that it hasn't addressed the causes of racism, because there has been a concerted effort by a powerful few who have sought not to educate its citizenry about the country's racist history. These people continue to lobby legislators who decide who writes the school curriculums. The ignorance of the majority of America is by design. And that's going to make it that much harder for your country to heal itself. But we're in the digital age now. The information isn't hard to find. Start with this: This video clearly and methodically illustrates how slavery was relocated from plantations to prisons, and how it affects literally everyone else in the form of jobs that are not on the job market because those jobs are done by predominantly black prisoners for 16 to 26 cents an hour - in privately owned prisons where the states pay them per prisoner. And the people who own those prisons pay off the media to ensure black people remain stigmatized as "criminals" so that it stays this way. This is how it has been since 1865, and why it has not once been covered on the news. Until the majority of America revolts against this, nothing will change for anyone. |
| matt z 05.06.2020 07:31 |
Amen, Wiz. Essentially the worst suspicions are prob true.. the POSUS is a compromised individual, as is likely half or more of the House and Senate.. and they're likely trying to destabilize everything. Undermining law, disregarding checks and balances, surveillance, dividing the populace further, 4 Inspector General removals in something like 3-4 months, extremely suspicious delays in reacting to Covid-19 (they'd snapped up massive investments in the newly essential Tele-medicine and let their buddies drop stocks prior to even making covid a response (to which they haven't even responded well to)... deployment of the military on its own civilian population, pandering photo ops. Endless madness... it has all seemed deliberate. At least the general public is getting a perspective of it. People's trades being reduced to a ONE TIME $1,200 supplement (plus a little more for those who have children) racking up 3+ months of debt, some being evicted, some governors putting a moratorium on evictions (which equals racked up debt once this is recalled). People without livelihood. it's hard to understand how this fuckup still has a base, if it's not just stubborn hatred, as most of his policies have not benefited the working man. (they only benefit stock and shareholders, who eventually likely produce overseas) nearly all oversight on environmental restrictions have been removed by his declaration of "national emergency" (for which his administration has still failed to guide and prevent with prior or forthcoming efforts) I can only hope that dissent leads to removal... this is all a huge, huge mess... leading to fascism. I'm one of the few still retaining employment, though several have been laid off this past week (despite the company being in the Fortune 500) To make matters worse, there will likely be a potential upsurge in the second wave of covid from MEMORIAL DAY and now.. the protests (many being intercepted and used to mask looting and or alternative counter -intelligence like activities) I've been around town if only just for the basics, and I HAVE overheard some little wanna be thug kids, teenagers (ethnically hispanic and asian since that's where I live around) who were getting antsy and happy about going to certain towns and hoping to loot something good. it's all a measure of mass chaos, which I feel is deliberate. There's no leadership to control this "us vs them" factioning that gets bolstered any time that it benefits old white folks fears of "colored folks" hell, there's even surplus food not getting distributed to food vendors and stores thats either being plowed under or just all out massacred ("livestock")... we've got the Pres' people discussing people as "human capital stock" without any resultant disgust from this guy's base... its beyond deplorable, it's offensive to law, life and sanity and any degree of intelligence. |
| matt z 05.06.2020 09:21 |
Of course this is not exclusive to the USA link Absolutely disgusting. Tweets suggest the reporter laughed when asked if they'd shot more than one round. |
| Saint Jiub 07.06.2020 02:31 |
The Real Wizard wrote: We're watching the fall of an empire. And thanks to social media, the world can watch in real time. The country may not even make it to the next election. Stay safe.The following editorial was written by a Washington Post correspondent (not Fox News): link ... Commentary: ‘Tonight she’s jobless.' There’s nothing justifiable in looting. Since last weekend, when looting spread from the downtown business district to pockets of Chicago, I’ve tracked reactions on social media, largely by white friends safely tucked at home, away from the consequences of destruction. To my surprise, many romanticized the looting, saying it’s just their black neighbors raging against society’s sins that go back centuries. Two nights earlier I had posted photos of a hair salon’s storefront, shattered by bricks during a riot in Uptown. One friend said she understood the distraught owner’s frustration, but hey, she has insurance, and she should really appreciate the larger struggle. Then there was that meme circulating for days that suggests if you are outraged by looting, you couldn’t possibly be outraged by the death of George Floyd. No. You can be outraged by both. Looting is a destroyer in these neighborhoods. I agree that Gucci can rebuild. And Gucci customers can move on. But you know who can’t? Jerry Winfrey, 54, the caretaker for his mother. The Dollar Tree looting and fire now means he has nowhere to buy groceries. He has no car. The nearest Jewel might as well be on Mars. “Can’t go to the grocery store no more,” he says. With Dollar Tree gone, “it’s gonna be rough.” This whole thing is a tragedy, has zero to do with Floyd’s tragic killing, and it’s aggravating to listen to armchair liberals reciting abstract social theories that conclude what’s good for the impoverished in our city. Real life is more complex than fits a meme. Or that think piece in Salon you’re sharing that got your echo chamber giving you mega “likes” on your social media page. The next time you share that meme and bang out a post proclaiming how looting and destruction benefits society because — Who? Trump? The mayor? Santa Claus? — is going to learn a lesson about the suffering of people, why don’t you drive to Chicago and Homan avenues on the West Side and ask the people who are actually suffering? Guarantee they’ll give you a different story. |
| matt z 07.06.2020 06:55 |
Yeah there have been plenty opportunist assholes going down at the late hours (after most protests have concluded) with no interest other than to loot. There ARE also others certain of disregarding the curfews imposed in some towns. A number of these are independent feedbackers and you can track many incidents occurring LIVE by being on Twitter/instagram/fb (those that aren't removed). All with a mind toward reporting those doing the looting and the flanks of officers conducting extreme violations. They've actually become the proper recorders of this. Since they'd essentially waved (removed) Habeas Corpus AND the EPA restrictions beginning with this national state of emergency (in which dumb Donald [no not the guy from Fat Albert] has done nothing to utilize the Defense Protection Act for protecting citizens and stopping the thread of COVID) and begun actually detaining people like Brown shirts, some have actually "disappeared" in unmarked vehicles by badgeless "police" in heavy armaments and armory. There's truly a lot of evil shit going on. There's no justifying asshole teenagers and gang bangers looting. There are bad folks abound with that. ..also potentially (*as in Minnesota) direct records of instigators breaking Windows, graffitiing and undermining the efforts. There ARE flanks of racist (White P ower ) police and military. Some being recorded flashing WP signs. A positive that's happened is that SOME have been relieved or fired from duty. Some merely removed from active duty. There's a tremendous amount of evil shit going on. |
| Holly2003 07.06.2020 07:47 |
Saint Jiub wrote: The following editorial was written by a Washington Post correspondent (not Fox News) link -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you are so outraged by both the looting and the death of George Floyd (I presume) why have you yet to even mention his name? |
| Saint Jiub 07.06.2020 16:29 |
Looks like you are the only one in this topic so far to mention George Floyd by name, so apparently you believe that you are the only one to give a shit. While you are so fixated on people not mentioning George Floyd by name, I don't suppose you remember Philando Castile? His killing by a Minnesota cop happened in 2016 which is longer ago than I remembered. I could have sworn it happened in 2018, but memory plays tricks. Philondo Castille's killing probably played a role in spirit of the Minnesota protests, but it appears not many remember. I initially searched "Minnesota police killing" but came up empty. It is only when I added "traffic stop" was I able to refresh my memory. link |
| Holly2003 07.06.2020 17:07 |
Slow hand clap. Wasn't that hard, was it, to mention the man whose murder started this latest round of protests against police violence and racism? Maybe you might address that or any of the other points raised in this thread? Or maybe you will, like most republicans it seems, give Trump another mild slap on the wrist and then refocus your attention on looting, as if that's the main story here. |
| matt z 08.06.2020 01:48 |
people are going to go to flanks by not mentioning George Floyd's name? This shit is ongoing... it's been happening forever. There are countless folks whose lives have been ruined, wrecked, abused, debased etc by abuse, racial profiling (wrong convictions, when convicting someone is seen as expeditious and conclusive) and drug planting etc... Unless you're familiar with the USA and live out here.. some of these flanks might be surprising. As much as I can share a laugh and a brew with someone at a bar/pub etc, I'll also be privy to shares, and stories... sometimes the people are cops, sometimes the people are hoodrats (gangsters etc) but the thing is always the same "you people aren't so bad, etc" but it never shows up on the outside. I think the notion of pushing police reform, after the public witnessed something seen without edit (JFK, I'm talking to you) which was clearly a debasement of a human life... i think it's necessary and I'm glad there are some folks who will put their lives on the line out there against the deeply rigid and protective wall of various PD's. That's a great step. For years there have been many accounts of various Police Departments looking and behaving more like Actual Prison people than real life citizens. Sure they experience untold insanity that most people will never witness...but it's also true that there are many who are attracted to "correctional facilities" out of feelings of their own neglect, abuse, inattention and failures, who RELISH in inflicting pain and exploiting matters behind the scenes".. it might sound bizarre on paper, but people elect and select "sides"... if you're spending 40 + hours each week in such ugly enviornments how else would you view human life, except as skewered? But small divergence aside, .. these viewpoints impact police culture... being WITHIN the shit, you're likely to keep ranks and prevent anybody else on the "outside" ffrom judging your actions... legal or not... WHO ARE THEY TO SAY??!! etc... its' what happens.. People aren't perfect, but the endemic racism of certain towns and cities has been known for at least 80-100 years (Boston, NY, Utah, Arizona etc). and their actions are a reflection of the public at large and what they will accept and permit.. (Thanks to the PRESS.. which this POSUS has been decrying as FAKE NEWS so long as the subject matter exposes his and his own's corruption) I'm grateful for at least the OBSERVATION and DISCUSSION what America embodies. if we only have one life, why should these "nuances and freak ocurrences" be disregarded as such, when they impact people on such a structural level? I've been harassed in my life by PD. Stopped driving because I'm not white and not driving a fancy car (as a student paying my own ways) ... held, handcuffed, illegally had my vehicle searched in all exposed cavities for 40 -45 minutes on a major street ultimately for no citation to have been issued, and to have been advised "there had been some people keying cars around here" we noticed you had keys (after a search of my vehicle resulted in finding my studio keys [i ran a music studio with 10 rooms, and various accessible locks for equipment, shutters, a/c, outdoor access etc") had I had any money I would've hired an attorney.. but it would've been my word against theirs. That said.. I missed my movie, I missed my date, I lost my mind and had to buy a pack of smokes to be angry and pissed off by myself for a minute. Truth is.. compared to others being truly and REALLY identified as suspects on crimes that had just happened... I could've been beaten and left at the station, car impounded (since it was stopped on a public street) and left with 3-14 days of impound fees as a student working two jobs) because I represented some "closure" in the matter. The FACT is.. I hadn't been ANYWHERE NEAR THAT TOWN in several months. I was going after work to meet up at a theatre. Even minor things like this could really wreck a persons life.. I hardly see how accountability at this point, could even be an issue for people. |
| The Real Wizard 09.06.2020 02:56 |
link Including the attached photo, here are three chances for those of us who are white to check our privilege. No more excuses. We all need to focus squarely on the problem if there's ever going to be any chance of solving it. |
| Dr Magus 09.06.2020 10:56 |
I won’t kneel with the masses, I won’t be told my fate, By people who hijack tragedy, To perpetuate their hate. Don’t you shout Black Lives Matter, Whilst running through the streets, When your people are burning Foot Locker, Stealing Nikes for their feet. Don’t dance on The Cenotaph, Like it’s Carnival or Mardi Gras, That sacred granite edifice, Marks people who died in war. How dare you besiege Number 10, This isn’t even our fight, If you want to go and protest, Get a 4,000 mile flight. Social distancing flouted, Police punched in the face, Missiles hurled at Downing Street., This isn’t about race. It’s rent-a-mob and anarchists, Versus police led by lambs, They just stand there and take it, Lefty Cressida tied their hands. Meanwhile America’s burning, It’s a tragedy we all agree, That George Floyd lost his life, For all the world to see. Justice must take its course, The cop has lost his job, Now he faces twelve good and true, Not a braying mob. So Monday I won’t be kneeling, I won’t even bow my head, Because someone I don’t even know, Has wound up dead. An armed robber and a felon, In and out of jail, As a model citizen, He was a total fail. I’ll weep for whom I choose to, I’ll say where and when, Not because a lifelong offender, Bought it in the end. I don’t condone the officers, They rightly face the wrath, But ask me to kneel for a criminal? Don’t make me laugh. You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state, It’s BLACK LIVES MATTER, not Middle England, That’s peddling the hate. |
| matt z 09.06.2020 19:42 |
^This is a complaint about looters and rioters.. and no question people should be upset about that. Legislation hasn't always come on the side of civic duty. Just look at Gideon vs Wainwright. This is a human rights issue thats been going on for far too long in this and other countries. It's about enforcing the law, and ensuring that it applies equally to all citizens. The complaints, eh.. I don't think anybody's calling for a sainthood of George Floyd. Even at funerals people tend to ignore the bad parts of people's lives. The guy was supposedly trying to pass a fake $20 bill. No matter who you are, you shouldn't die from it. The restraints and illegal holds on the guy hindered any assistance of someone who was apparently in custody. Whether hindered by other complications, there was no apparent resistance that was spoken about (footage across the street, until he was taken across to the other car) Regardless of whether someone is not an ideal person, this form of response doesn't match the situation. And unless you're deaf and blind, you'd notice that it happens disproportionately in the States. Go check what's happening now, if you're a US citizen... there have been numerous attacks on the press and on protesters: black, white, asian, "latino" or other. This IS a real problem. Has been for decades and centuries. It's really the wrong time to be criticizing the lowest of it. $20. That's rarely going to be proven. I've had a counterfeit $100 come from the ATM before. I return change (dollars) that I see when I get them from clerks. (it's apparent some times).. but for all we know, the intent may not have been there. AND if it was, then the guy was refused as accepted payment, GTFO of here... go, and end of story for most. I can reassure you, if you're white, that if you'd received a fake bill and tried paying for something with it, you wouldn't be dead in the street over it. Even if it was intentional. The measures don't match, and that's merely THIS case. |
| The Real Wizard 11.06.2020 23:35 |
Dr Magus wrote: You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state, It’s BLACK LIVES MATTER, not Middle England, That’s peddling the hate.When's the last time you walked down the street, day or night, and felt afraid because of the colour of your skin? In what universe is Black Lives Matter more dangerous than centuries of systematic racism ? And since when has battling racism been a "lefty" issue? Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist? |
| Saint Jiub 12.06.2020 00:30 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist?No - YOU are suggesting that all conservatives are racist (or at least anyone who voted for Trump). All you are doing is discouraging dialogue and pushing the hate underground. Congratulations. Please check your elitist illiberal white privilege, leave QZ, and take your illiberal hate to Twitter where you can join like-minded people who share your confirmation bias. link Commentary: When the Twitter mob takes on George Floyd, Tom Cotton and police power, we all lose "Last week gave us more reason to believe that our president is an illiberal authoritarian, much like Vladimir Putin and the other overseas autocrats he admires. Yet the protest movement revealed its own illiberal streak, which should also trouble anyone who is concerned about racial justice. Like every decent American, I want to live in a country where black people aren’t harassed and killed with impunity by the police. But I don’t think we can get there by social media shame campaigns, which create yet more fear and intolerance. Harsh policing of our words won’t end police violence and racism; it might even make things worse, by empowering Trump and his henchmen. It also encourages digital sadism, disguised as social justice. Mocking miscreants on the internet becomes a way to establish your own woke status. And the highest props go to the nastiest posts. So almost everyone on the left dutifully got in line — or at least bit their tongues — while Sen. Cotton crowed about how he had exposed the bias and cowardice of The New York Times. By the time Editorial Page Editor James Bennet stepped down Sunday, it was hard to find anyone other than Republicans who said running the piece was a good idea. Privately, several of my liberal friends told me that they supported the decision to publish Cotton’s column because it underscored the essential depravity of the Trump-era GOP. But they would never say so in public, my friends added, because then the Twitter mob would come after them. How can that be a good thing for the fight against injustice? For the past two weeks, we have heard frequent calls for an “honest conversation" about policing and racism in the United States. But you can’t have a real conversation when people are afraid of saying the wrong thing. That doesn’t create more fair-minded citizens; it makes cynics, who mouth the right words. I fail to see how any of these rituals of public humiliation and retribution get us any closer to justice for George Floyd. It is pure fantasy to imagine they will make anybody more aware of racism or more inclined to challenge it. All they will do is make people afraid to talk and think. And they echo the illiberal spirit of President Trump, who wants nothing more than to scare and divide us. He traffics in fear and shame, which are tools of domination rather than justice. They can force you to grovel, but they can’t change your heart. They might even harden it." |
| Holly2003 12.06.2020 08:21 |
Cons/Reps had their chance for a debate with a black President and instead spent 8 years demeaning him; they then chose Trump instead of a more moderate candidate. The conservative message is clear enough. |
| LTLSihls 13.06.2020 04:17 |
Saint Jiub wrote: The Real Wizard wrote: Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist? No - YOU are suggesting that all conservatives are racist (or at least anyone who voted for Trump). All you are doing is discouraging dialogue and pushing the hate underground. Congratulations. Please check your elitist illiberal white privilege, leave QZ, and take your illiberal hate to Twitter where you can join like-minded people who share your confirmation bias. link Commentary: When the Twitter mob takes on George Floyd, Tom Cotton and police power, we all lose "Last week gave us more reason to believe that our president is an illiberal authoritarian, much like Vladimir Putin and the other overseas autocrats he admires. Yet the protest movement revealed its own illiberal streak, which should also trouble anyone who is concerned about racial justice. Like every decent American, I want to live in a country where black people aren’t harassed and killed with impunity by the police. But I don’t think we can get there by social media shame campaigns, which create yet more fear and intolerance. Harsh policing of our words won’t end police violence and racism; it might even make things worse, by empowering Trump and his henchmen. It also encourages digital sadism, disguised as social justice. Mocking miscreants on the internet becomes a way to establish your own woke status. And the highest props go to the nastiest posts. So almost everyone on the left dutifully got in line — or at least bit their tongues — while Sen. Cotton crowed about how he had exposed the bias and cowardice of The New York Times. By the time Editorial Page Editor James Bennet stepped down Sunday, it was hard to find anyone other than Republicans who said running the piece was a good idea. Privately, several of my liberal friends told me that they supported the decision to publish Cotton’s column because it underscored the essential depravity of the Trump-era GOP. But they would never say so in public, my friends added, because then the Twitter mob would come after them. How can that be a good thing for the fight against injustice? For the past two weeks, we have heard frequent calls for an “honest conversation" about policing and racism in the United States. But you can’t have a real conversation when people are afraid of saying the wrong thing. That doesn’t create more fair-minded citizens; it makes cynics, who mouth the right words. I fail to see how any of these rituals of public humiliation and retribution get us any closer to justice for George Floyd. It is pure fantasy to imagine they will make anybody more aware of racism or more inclined to challenge it. All they will do is make people afraid to talk and think. And they echo the illiberal spirit of President Trump, who wants nothing more than to scare and divide us. He traffics in fear and shame, which are tools of domination rather than justice. They can force you to grovel, but they can’t change your heart. They might even harden it." |
| matt z 14.06.2020 02:40 |
Reads like double speak. But hey, whatever ya feel isn't going to change my mind that exposing hate is a good thing. So people suddenly feel TROUBLED that their lives are disturbed by a guy recording an incident IN HIS DEFENSE (*) in order that the facts aren't skewered, is also ignoring the possibility that the man could've been arrested on ATTEMPTED ASSAULT charges or potentially accused of GROPING the woman in the park (*his challenge in court might not have even held up, despite the fact that the guy is a gay bird watcher asking the woman to leash her dog: DOGS AND CATS KILL BIRDS IN SANCTUARY TYPE ENVIRONMENTS and are not natural predators in the environment) The woman attempted to end the man's life, whether literally or legally because she couldn't be bothered to leash her dog. Physically = potential overresponse and cowering white woman claiming assault while a dog is barking frantically Legally= held in jail on bond for several days depending on severity of the charge. One phone call to an attorney or family to get an attorney. An attempt at raising bond. Not showing up to work Monday morning, Not Tuesday etc (if an assault charge). assets liquidated. Money borrowed if possible. Workplace checks public record: man arrested for sexual assault in a park. Black dude. This also ties him into suspicion on ANY other local charges at the park. Guy loses job. Guys family takes loan on house. Loses house in hiring litigation. Man's defense is his word against another. U see how this spirals a person's life out of control? I fail to see the complaint. Publishing an article is fine. It shows someone's potentially hateful take on situations and Shows a generational dissolve. Speaking of ruining people's life. ..i just saw this this afternoon. Be wary if you value things like the law. Or if you enjoy comedies from the KEYSTONE era, you can pretend this is not real. Or if you're a fringe conspiracy "right wing" fella, you can say this is a crisis actor. |
| matt z 14.06.2020 02:41 |
link The link wouldn't post after the BODY of my reply. It's a video and i don't think i can embed while on my dinosaur phone |
| Saint Jiub 14.06.2020 03:39 |
Christian Cooper exposed the hysterical, manipulative bitch. She deserved to get fired. However ... Christian Cooper decried the irony of the Twitter Mob issuing death threats against her: ... "Chris Cooper was overwhelmed by the response to the video, which went viral on Twitter after his sister posted it. However, the retribution in particular was troubling for him. "It's a little bit of a frenzy, and I am uncomfortable with that," he said in an interview with The New York Times. "If our goal is to change the underlying factors, I am not sure that this young woman having her life completely torn apart serves that goal." In an appearance on CNN, he said he considers the woman's actions racist, but he urged people who were outraged by it to stay civil. He said death threats against her "should stop immediately." "I find it strange that people who were upset that ... that she tried to bring death by cop down on my head, would then turn around and try to put death threats on her head. Where is the logic in that?" he said. "Where does that make any kind of sense?" "Christian Cooper, an avid bird-watcher, says he condemns "abhorrent" death threats targeting the woman, who called the police on him during an encounter involving her unleashed dog." ... link |
| Saint Jiub 14.06.2020 03:54 |
matt z wrote: link The link wouldn't post after the BODY of my reply. It's a video and i don't think i can embed while on my dinosaur phoneThe following is the full video ... not a short clip: link |
| matt z 14.06.2020 06:46 |
HAD been looking for that last night. Tried my best not to stomach more of the bad today, with folks trashing the senile 45 and his self promoting diatribing, near Nazi quoting speech at resummoned West Point Cadet grad ceremony. It's not nice to mock the infirm, unless they're an evil sack of law undermining **** who's mocked the elderly, handicapped, dead and women in general. So. . That said. Thanks for sharing that extended. It still alarming that they'd seek out this petty method of likely claiming assault on someone. He was clearly being followed. If anything they should have ignored the guy likely walking away or maintained space. To the effect that he's not on the south side of the street may be material or immaterial. These days these protests are not done with submitted requests (*which is a pitiable way of ruining the efficacy of said protest when it is not such an issue...i.e. under funding libraries, payroll tax hikes or Whatever imaginable) So technically none of the participants are in tandem with a "uniform protest" here. I still don't see how it was all warranted. As for Christian Cooper, yeah he was quick to condemn that. As a respectable man of conscience there. Fact is a lot of this is provoked and stoked deliberately. The rest is just a white world's resentment that "omg the blacks are upset again" Despite this being a real multifaceted movement to regulate the unregulated (the FOP has always held rank. They have even created their own internal celebrations of ousted whistleblowers in their rank for "betrayals") it's obvious to many that there is much corruption in long established camps. And it's true that not every cop is an arrogant above the law asshole. It's just that there's an alarmingly skewered state of happenings and enforcement that deliberately sways a certain direction. Various fractions will attribute it solely to finances and social standing (*abuse of the poor happens everywhere! Just look at o.j., He got off! He's black so your point is bogus! ) But a realistic look will find that hell, it's still going on, and is still being fanned by b denials and misinformation and casting ridicule (fromm the "highest office") and even the pacing and timing, The selected words utilized in speeches and changes made. Stephen Miller likely arranging policy on timing and placement of his recent talk of a rally on Juneteenth. In Tulsa OK, deliberately stoking racial agendas to his base and basest of violent supporters. They also rejected a provision of the ACA that ensured protection and treatment of LGBTQ folks at facilities. Essentially a right to refuse treatment of US citizens on a discriminatory basis. WHEN DID THEY DO THIS?? on a convenient hate bating date, The four year anniversary of a gay Orlando nightcLub shooting that killed 49 and wounded 53. We're living through times (*and HAVE been) since this POSUS began drawing support and admiring Putin in the press and pulling out somewhat dormant racial hatred powerful enough to disregard that the Kremlin is not our friend. This division is not a "return to normal" but an attempt to undermine the role the people play in society now. The US is not even a land of laws right now with essentially an AG in his pocket (Epstein -Barr isn't just a virus) and 4 Inspector General removals in 3 months. There is no review. Barr s daughter somehow heading a position to block the guys taxes, his daughter And son in law somehow getting positions without qualifications or authority getting security clearances that are ethically illegal. And we're all being royally fucked out and bare with zero fed support now and Senate majority leader Mitch pulling a 180 these past years as if he's been extorted. Meanwhile the hate and inability of the treasury to support the regular citizen ((*who pay their salaries ) any meaningful assistance when simultaneously being asked to not work is causing more insane actions. Self destruction and even a lynching in Palmdale (*there was another in January in Lancaster). It's pretty clear where the division lies. Distort, lie, project, deny culpability and turn segments of society further against each other to avoid their own failures. We're in a tremendous mess. I hope we all get out of this. |
| Dr Magus 14.06.2020 14:46 |
The Real Wizard wrote:I know this thread is about the US and I'm talking about the UK but anyway.Dr Magus wrote: You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state, It’s BLACK LIVES MATTER, not Middle England, That’s peddling the hate.When's the last time you walked down the street, day or night, and felt afraid because of the colour of your skin? In what universe is Black Lives Matter more dangerous than centuries of systematic racism ? And since when has battling racism been a "lefty" issue? Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist? Racism has always been a two way street and there are plenty of towns and cities across the UK that have no-go areas for whites. If you think the Black Lives Matter is anything less than a violent, extremist, political movement you are deluding yourself. It is run by black supremacists and supported by the far-left white middle-class fascists of Antifa. Violence and mob-rule is all they know, as we have seen. Black Lives Matter is an incorrect title anway. Only black Lives Matter would be more apt since they are not interested in REAL equality, just special treatment for themselves. Or how about Black Lives Matter But Only When Whitey Is Involved Because The Vast Majority Of Crimes Committed By Blacks Are On Other Blacks But We Don't Really Care About That. Down With Whitey! Wouldn't all fit on a t-shirt though. |
| matt z 15.06.2020 10:13 |
^ that's a lie. And would require people willing to somehow provoke police and citizens into dying and bring lynched. I might envy your comfortable zone, but IT IS NOT REALITY. Btw: Anybody ELSE concerned at all that this administration has essentially sold out a dozen generations or more to debt under the banner of a covid disaster that they WILLFULLY AVOIDED CONFRONTING? HALF A TRILLION FUCKING DOLLARS HALF A TRILLION does anybody think that the rest of the world will be compliant in RETURNING this money once it's exposed exactly where it's gone? We're witnessing HAVE been witnessing the outside infiltration and overtaking of a constitutional republic. Sure, it seldom represented people like me, but I'm skeptic and non partisan enough to realize when people have been taken in by a carny fucking hustler family. Why is it so hard for others to see it? Things are bad. Very fucking bad, and they don't give a shit about you or me. link |
| Freddie4L 26.06.2020 21:52 |
I am very worried about the current situation in the United States, because I was going to go to work in the states and already applied for a visa through the agency [url=link . But in connection with the protests and the pandemic, I’m not sure that I can go to work. My employer told me to apply for a TN visa, and I did just that, but the visa may end and will have to be renewed. Hopefully things will get better soon. |