| dysan 03.11.2019 19:44 |
I'm just leaving this here primarily so I remember to watch it tomorrow. Looks interesting. link |
| BradMay 03.11.2019 19:56 |
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| BradMay 03.11.2019 19:56 |
This guy also talks about it link |
| Star* 03.11.2019 19:59 |
Freddie's vocals were never auto tuned because he was a gifted singer and never needed any false technology to tidy his vocals up. |
| dysan 03.11.2019 20:01 |
It's more about retroactively on the live reissues which we tend to agree is true. |
| pittrek 03.11.2019 20:02 |
Jazz+ wrote: Freddie's vocals were never auto tuned because he was a gifted singer and never needed any false technology to tidy his vocals up.Why do you feel the need to write something like this in a thread which starts with a video explaining that they DID autotune his voice? |
| pittrek 03.11.2019 20:03 |
Thanks for the video, that guy has usually very interesting analytical videos |
| stevelondon20 03.11.2019 22:35 |
Great video. Cheers. |
| Makka 04.11.2019 01:58 |
I can understand the autotune on live releases. No one can continuously hit notes perfectly every time. If for that brief moment here can't ear properly for whatever reason it can happen. I can accept that because he's only human. Overdubbing I feel a little more critical of. Not a fan but it does happen. Very interesting video though. Thanks for sharing Dysan. |
| Jimmy Dean 04.11.2019 03:08 |
I didn’t watch the video but I always thought they auto tuned him in fairy feller at the rainbow. There were a couple of vocal bits that sounded corrected. |
| Dougie 4 04.11.2019 06:36 |
At the time when he was alive and performing, he didn't use autotune and people praised his voice back then. Now that some of it is getting auto tuned, it still doesn't take away from the raw power of his original voice which was loved by millions of fans world wide even back when he was alive. |
| The Fairy King 04.11.2019 07:33 |
FBG on Live at the Bowl is another famous one. |
| Jimmy Dean 04.11.2019 09:04 |
Yes, that could be the first time they may have used it. I never made the link when that first came out and simply thought it was spliced from a different performance. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 09:14 |
Just watching it now. It's funny that he pronounces Autotune as 'Outtatune'. Ironic. |
| earwig 04.11.2019 10:49 |
I always thought it curious that they DIDN'T autotune John's bass on Tear It Up off of Wembley 86. It sounds like one string of his bass was flat... |
| Star* 04.11.2019 12:23 |
I remember reading a magazine article and Brian & Roger were asked if Freddie's voice was ever auto tuned and they said no. And i have never ever heard of it through Queen sources like books, roadie interviews or sound producers. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 12:52 |
For more information, reread the thread. |
| The Real Wizard 04.11.2019 14:59 |
pittrek wrote:Religious fanatic types are interested in propagating their dogma, not well researched evidence that refutes it.Jazz+ wrote: Freddie's vocals were never auto tuned because he was a gifted singer and never needed any false technology to tidy his vocals up.Why do you feel the need to write something like this in a thread which starts with a video explaining that they DID autotune his voice? |
| Star* 04.11.2019 16:17 |
Well i think the evidence speaks for itself as no one who has worked with Queen in the recording studios has ever mentioned auto tuning Freddie's vocals ! I think this thread is just bollocks. |
| Biggus Dickus 04.11.2019 16:32 |
Jazz+ wrote: Well i think the evidence speaks for itself as no one who has worked with Queen in the recording studios has ever mentioned auto tuning Freddie's vocals ! I think this thread is just bollocks.Of course they are not going to admit it as they want to perpetuate the myth that Freddie sang perfectly every line in every song in every concert. That's what is bollocks. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 16:34 |
I think some of the earlier reissues have a protools operator credit on them. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 16:37 |
(which of course is a nudge nudge hint) |
| Thistle 04.11.2019 16:42 |
Jazz+ wrote: Well i think the evidence speaks for itself as no one who has worked with Queen in the recording studios has ever mentioned auto tuning Freddie's vocals ! I think this thread is just bollocks.No, the evidence that is available shows they DID alter/edit his vocals. As others have pointed out, Fat Bottomed Girls at Milton Keynes is a prime example. Watch and you'll see.... What actually happened: link What was released on DVD: link It's the line "ain't no beauty queens in this locality". He botched it. They fixed it afterwards. Simples. It's not the only example. If you listened and watched closely enough instead of blindly defending him, you'd realise that people are telling you the truth. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 16:45 |
I think he's purely referring to the albums in Freddie's lifetime which of course shows incredible laziness not reading the thread that we've crafted lovingly. |
| Thistle 04.11.2019 16:52 |
Could cause a fight in an empty room :p |
| Holly2003 04.11.2019 16:54 |
It takes years and ongoing effort but I have lovingly set up my own version of Queenzone and copied and pasted every topic, comment, spam, pic and video onto it EXCEPT any criticism of Fred. Signed Gerry. |
| dysan 04.11.2019 16:57 |
Like the guy in Close Encounters making the mashed potato Devil's Tower. |
| Star* 04.11.2019 18:41 |
Freddie hated to be perfect on stage night after night he even said so himself so yeah he did occasionally go off key but he was only a human being working very hard doing 2 hour shows night after night it can and does affect the voice. We as fans were not informed that Freddie was auto tuned on the live albums and if he was this must have been done after he passed away because that sort of technology surely was not around in Freddie's days? He was still an incredible vocalist and the best ever in rock n roll by miles. |
| Thistle 04.11.2019 18:49 |
We as fans didn't need to be informed. We as fans can hear for ourselves. This might have been the first example of him being auto-tuned (and so would be after he died) but you do know that Queen reworked live recordings in the studio before this? Live Killers, for example. It's not entirely "live". How have you gone so long not knowing this? |
| The Real Wizard 04.11.2019 23:46 |
Thistle wrote: Could cause a fight in an empty room :pYou win the internets for today. |
| miraclesteinway 05.11.2019 00:28 |
I would like to hear "Let Me In Your Heart Again" without the autotune added. I do think Freddie was incredible but there's something suspect about some of the top notes on this track, especially when compared to "In My Defence" which was only recorded a shortish time after. |
| The Circle of Eidolon 05.11.2019 01:18 |
Jazz+ you have waded into this subject as you have so many times before. You do not research the subjects you comment on. The Circle of Eidolon has read much that has been posted here over many years. We have researched your comments on Freddie Mercury's singing capabilities. Not so long ago you said that Freddie Mercury was the best singer in the world. You claimed he never gave sub standard performances and, in your words, was perfect. Now Jazz+ you claim that Freddie Mercury never tried to be perfect in the live setting. The Circle of Eidolon wishes to ask you Jazz+ have you heard of a road called The Stelvio. You will find it in northern Italy. It is a long twisting road that climbs the southern side of the Alps. As long and twisting as this road is it cannot match the number of times you twist and turn to escape the words you have used in the past on your journey. The Circle of Eidolon has spoken, again we are sure you will miss the lesson, there is no argument Jazz+ |
| Dougie 4 05.11.2019 03:55 |
While Freddie was alive and singing he didn't buse auto tuned. That people used it afterwards doesn't take away from his integrity. |
| Vocal harmony 05.11.2019 11:23 |
While they were recording I'm sure that what you hear is Freddies's natural voice. . . However as someone has already said Live recordings are a different matter, multiple show edited to give the best "live" rendition isn't really true to the live performance. As much as I like Live Killers one really well performed gig may have worked better. Post Freddie yes autotune is evident but remember that those live recordings are now being heard in a world where so much is made to sound perfect that to some Freddies's place as a legendary singer and performer can only be maintained if he can compete on a level field with so many of the current doctored singers |
| stevelondon20 05.11.2019 12:18 |
The Circle of Eidolon wrote: Jazz+ you have waded into this subject as you have so many times before. You do not research the subjects you comment on. The Circle of Eidolon has read much that has been posted here over many years. We have researched your comments on Freddie Mercury's singing capabilities. Not so long ago you said that Freddie Mercury was the best singer in the world. You claimed he never gave sub standard performances and, in your words, was perfect. Now Jazz+ you claim that Freddie Mercury never tried to be perfect in the live setting. The Circle of Eidolon wishes to ask you Jazz+ have you heard of a road called The Stelvio. You will find it in northern Italy. It is a long twisting road that climbs the southern side of the Alps. As long and twisting as this road is it cannot match the number of times you twist and turn to escape the words you have used in the past on your journey. The Circle of Eidolon has spoken, again we are sure you will miss the lesson, there is no argument Jazz+Reading your posts is an absolute joy! :-) |
| The Real Wizard 05.11.2019 18:04 |
Jazz+ wrote: Freddie's vocals were never auto tuned because he was a gifted singer and never needed any false technology to tidy his vocals up.Of course not - because such technology didn't exist during his lifetime. Instead of using autotune, singers often had to do 20 or 30 takes and the final version was assembled from various takes. Another One Bites The Dust is a prime example (any discerning ear can hear the punch ins in the isolated vocal track from the Rock Band stems). And this isn't limited to singers - many of Alex Lifeson's classic solos were compiled like this by Terry Brown. It may not be "false" technology, but plenty of times you're not listening to a single take of a vocal on music from the 1970s and 80s. Mercury was a gifted singer, but he wasn't perfect 100% of the time. You're kidding yourself if he never flubbed lines or sang flat in the studio. The technology just exists these days to fix the tiny flaws so that singers don't have to blow out their voices doing 30 takes of a song. Looking forward to your enlightened reply. |
| Chief Mouse 05.11.2019 18:41 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Exactly. Comping is a super common and perfectly normal practice. It's still being done today and it's far better than autotune. Of course, autotune will be used on "singers" who just can't be saved otherwise or to give a particular sound that is so embedded in modern pop, pretty much all vocals you hear on the radio are autotuned a bit even if the particular singer is great, just to give it that sound.Jazz+ wrote: Freddie's vocals were never auto tuned because he was a gifted singer and never needed any false technology to tidy his vocals up.Of course not - because such technology didn't exist during his lifetime. Instead of using autotune, singers often had to do 20 or 30 takes and the final version was assembled from various takes. Another One Bites The Dust is a prime example (any discerning ear can hear the punch ins in the isolated vocal track from the Rock Band stems). And this isn't limited to singers - many of Alex Lifeson's classic solos were compiled like this by Terry Brown. It may not be "false" technology, but plenty of times you're not listening to a single take of a vocal on music from the 1970s and 80s. You're kidding yourself if Mercury never flubbed lines or sang flat in the studio. The technology just exists these days to fix the tiny flaws so that singers don't have to blow out their voices doing 30 takes of a song. Looking forward to your enlightened reply. |
| MercurialFreddie 05.11.2019 19:45 |
Well... when it comes to live releases, didn't someone from Led Zep at one point state that only bass was "live" on the live album that they had released ? When Freddie was around the autotune was being invented, but surely most of Live Killers is overdubbed. What about Live at the Bowl 1982 ? When it was originally shown on TV in 1982 was the "this locality" line overdubbed already ? |
| Nitroboy 05.11.2019 21:53 |
Jazz+ wrote: Well i think the evidence speaks for itself as no one who has worked with Queen in the recording studios has ever mentioned auto tuning Freddie's vocals ! I think this thread is just bollocks.Or you could take 2 minutes to see/hear the evidence for yourself - but that's your prerogative. |
| richrich 06.11.2019 03:32 |
@Nitroboy: "Her breasts were bags of meat. Nothing more." |
| Dougie 4 06.11.2019 05:12 |
Freddie Mercury was not perfect because nobody who is human is. He had all the human frailties but he over came so many odds to become the great singer he became. People like me look up to him because he fought through his imperfections to give us great music. Roger Taylor has often mentioned how Freddie didn't have a good command over his voice initially but he worked on himself to improve his delivery. People endlessly debate upon the mistakes he made but miss the bigger picture...an Indian Parsi boy made it big through sheet hard work and determination. |
| dysan 06.11.2019 07:41 |
It's worth noting that sure some tweaking happens on official releases - fair enough as it is 'product' and that's at the discretion of the producer. Same with the composited 'raw' studio stuff we get released. What happens in the studio stays in the studio. But the real howlers we celebrate are usually tucked away on live audience recordings that we analyse to death. They were one-off shows meant for that audience and we have no idea of the reasons his voice (or brian's guitar) go a bit wonky during the excitement of a show. A rock concert isn't X Factor. Well, it wasn't back then. I doubt anyone at the those shows went home thinking 'wow to totally fluffed that B4'. |
| Vocal harmony 06.11.2019 11:38 |
Totally agree with both dysan and Dougie 4. I think the reason that people weren't aware, at the time and some still aren't, and sine just don't think about Freddies's origins was because he was so successful, everything he achieved was a million miles from where he came. As regards dysan's point about audience recordings, through the years I've seen hundreds of live shows and in the moment caught in the atmosphere of a big show with an up for it audience on the night slightly fluffed notes do go almost unnoticed. It's only when you get the chance to here some audience recordings that you will really here any mistakes or slip ups |
| dysan 06.11.2019 11:58 |
And lets be honest - we have audience audio of live vocal performances that surpass the studio versions. So I guess it all averages out. |
| The Real Wizard 06.11.2019 17:33 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: Well... when it comes to live releases, didn't someone from Led Zep at one point state that only bass was "live" on the live album that they had released ? When Freddie was around the autotune was being invented, but surely most of Live Killers is overdubbed. What about Live at the Bowl 1982 ? When it was originally shown on TV in 1982 was the "this locality" line overdubbed already ?I'm not sure why overdubbing is in a thread about autotune. They are completely different things. But yes - the unedited FBG was seen on the MTV broadcast of the Milton Keynes show. Some of Live Killers is overdubbed, but not all. Just a few vocal lines here and there, but nothing overly substantial. It's not like Kiss Alive where the only thing live about it is Peter Criss. More info here - link And if anyone said that about The Song Remains The Same, it was an exaggeration. There were a bunch of edits and a few vocal overdubs, but it's still 99.9% live Zeppelin - and mighty fine Zeppelin. |
| ggo1 07.11.2019 01:32 |
I don't really have an issue with some overdubs on a live album, At the venue, in the moment, fluffed vocals are part of the experience and rarely noticed, But if it's being released, I can understand tidying it up with an overdub or taking the line from a different show. Autotuning is different, and Id prefer they didn't do that, but of course if they release any new stuff, they cant really overdub if the singer isn't alive. Autotuning is getting better, but if they are trying to shift it too far it still sounds fake. |
| dysan 07.11.2019 07:31 |
If the choice was autotuned live Fairy Fellers or none, I know what I'd take. |
| Star* 07.11.2019 11:50 |
Check out "Live in Rio" at the end of "Its a Hard Life" Freddie goes off key as he just cant reach the high note at the end of the song, so why was that never auto tuned and it was an official release? IF what you say on here that Queen auto tuned then "Live in Rio" was not one of those live casualties that had that treatment, and i am sure they would have corrected Freddie's vocal on "Its a Hard Life" if they did auto tune. Jacky at the Queen fan club told me Queen have never Auto tuned ever. |
| dysan 07.11.2019 12:22 |
I don't know that example but that was released a long time before autoune. Perhaps they liked it? |
| Thistle 07.11.2019 13:38 |
It was out on VHS before auto tune and hasn't had a worldwide official release on DVD. It might have been on DVD in an obscure boxset at one point, I can't remember, but certainly the VHS was too early for such treatment. |
| Art Lawyer 07.11.2019 14:42 |
On the last DVD release they corrected It's a Hard Life: -VHS Rio link -DVD Rio (Corrected ending) 2013 link Dysan +1 I prefer autotune release than none. I suppose if they couldn't autotuned/overdubbed they couldn't release anything in these days because even the best concerts to release like Hammy 1979 has flubbed notes, voice crack (Spread Your Wings for example) etc... |
| Biggus Dickus 07.11.2019 14:53 |
Jazz+ wrote: Check out "Live in Rio" at the end of "Its a Hard Life" Freddie goes off key as he just cant reach the high note at the end of the song, so why was that never auto tuned and it was an official release? IF what you say on here that Queen auto tuned then "Live in Rio" was not one of those live casualties that had that treatment, and i am sure they would have corrected Freddie's vocal on "Its a Hard Life" if they did auto tune. Jacky at the Queen fan club told me Queen have never Auto tuned ever.The whole vocal track was autotuned on the Rio live version that was released on the 2CD version The Works in 2011. |
| dysan 07.11.2019 15:24 |
Here's another twist: Do contemporary overdubs (IE rainbow / LK etc) have more value than autotuning the raw performance? |
| Star* 09.11.2019 11:55 |
@Biggus Dickus It could be possible that "Its a Hard Life" (The Works 2011 version) could have been recorded on a different night to the video version? |
| Biggus Dickus 09.11.2019 18:23 |
Nope. It's the same performance. All the little imperfections in Freddie's singing have magically disappeared when you compare it to the original Rock in Rio VHS version. It's clear they used autotune. |
| Star* 10.11.2019 21:52 |
well if they used auto tune Freddie would have been long gone by then cos i know him he would hate auto tune, |
| Saint Jiub 10.11.2019 23:48 |
Jazz+ wrote: well if they used auto tune Freddie would have been long gone by then cos i know him he would hate auto tune,No shit Sherlock. Autotune was not invented until the late '90s.. So how many times have you talked to Freddie? What did he say that convinced you that he would hate a future invention? |
| dysan 11.11.2019 07:35 |
I think he would've like autotune TBH.. who doesn't in a creative environment. More time for bantz and snacks. |
| The Real Wizard 12.11.2019 15:56 |
dysan wrote: If the choice was autotuned live Fairy Fellers or none, I know what I'd take.Bingo. |
| dysan 12.11.2019 18:28 |
Further to that point, remember when the amazon (or was it iTunes?) snippet was available before the release? It was maybe 30 seconds of it and I must've listened to that on repeat for a week. It took me right back to that mysterious time of excited discovery and did more to reignite my fascination with the band more than pretty much anything they've done since Rare Live. |
| dysan 12.11.2019 18:37 |
What an absolutely beautiful thread: link |
| Supersonic_Man89 13.11.2019 09:46 |
Live at the Rainbow is unlistenable to me in parts... I don't consider myself an audiophile in the slightest, but the Freddie I hear of 'Fairy Fellers' etc. might as well be a deep fake. It doesn't sound like Freddie at all, but some sub-aquatic robot Freddie. If you're gonna do some little tricks in the editing suite to deal with mistakes... either do it right, so we don't really notice them or don't bother. Overdubs etc. have never stuck out to me like the Rainbow shit. It's why I can't consider it a great release, unlike many here do. |
| thomasquinn 32989 13.11.2019 09:48 |
@Supersonic_Man89: That's pretty hysterically overstated. |
| dysan 21.11.2019 18:32 |
link Part 2 |
| dysan 21.11.2019 18:33 |
Our own Chief Mouse gets a shout |
| Battler 21.11.2019 20:32 |
[quote]On the last DVD release they corrected It's a Hard Life: -VHS Rio link -DVD Rio (Corrected ending) 2013 link Dysan +1 I prefer autotune release than none. I suppose if they couldn't autotuned/overdubbed they couldn't release anything in these days because even the best concerts to release like Hammy 1979 has flubbed notes, voice crack (Spread Your Wings for example) etc...[/quote] The overdubbing in that It's A Hard Life gets even worse - the VHS release had Freddie's forgetting of the lyrics intact ("It's a fah da da da, oh in love"), but they overdubbed it on the DVD. |