doughnut 09.09.2019 21:15 |
Starting this thread as there are some that have lots to talk about after and whilst reading ' as it began '. Also I've just had delivery of ' Freddie in his own words ' Anyone else for this and can spot the new text ? |
Katydyd5 09.09.2019 23:12 |
I've just finished AIB. Liked it better with the second read! I'm also reading Freddie In His Own Words. I was really hoping they would add an addendum to readily identify the new material, but no such luck. Since I have the original book too I suppose I could hold them side by side to compare, but I'm too lazy. I do wish it was sourced, but of course, it's not. |
Amidds 10.09.2019 01:30 |
I was debating buying In His Own Words due to reviews of no sourcing and the price for hardcover on Amazon was over $200. Did end up getting free on Kindle so I just started reading it. Only 2 chapters in and I do recognize a lot of the interviews but am really wishing they had sourced it! If anyone does a comparison, please let us know what you find. Recently finished AIB and was waiting for others to catch up (not that anyone else has to), hopefully they will keep us posted on their progress! |
Katydyd5 10.09.2019 03:12 |
Amidds, I paid $11.95 for IHOW on Amazon. I wonder why the version you saw was so expensive. I have Kindle but I'm one of those people who prefers to be holding a book. I had the older version in the bag of books to take to the second hand book store, but I got it out to take downstairs and try to compare. I think there is a list of sources in the back of the book but it's just a general list and not helpful. Can you hear Freddie's voice while you read? |
doughnut 10.09.2019 07:24 |
Amidds surely that's not the price of the revised edition ? That's crazy . I have read bits and have spotted some additions . I won't say until you have finished . I got it free on kindle too . Katy I enjoyed as it began because it wasn't full of gossip . Obviously we know a lot more about certain times now but I still found it enjoyable . For me it's the fact Freddie read it . That gives it a deal of approval for me . There are comments about Freddie from certain people that really made me chuckle . |
Amidds 10.09.2019 13:44 |
Yep, that's the price showing up. Remember though, that's the hardcover and I'm sure they are 3rd party sellers grouped with the new, softcover selling for $11.99. IDK if there's a difference b/t the soft/hard so I took the Kindle until I can figure that out and then will probably buy it for my collection. I, too, have always preferred holding an actual book - I'm old fashioned that way plus I can mark the pages for later reference. Don't hold back on my account with referencing IHOW or pointing out the new additions. So far, I recognize a lot of the interviews so you won't be spoiling anything for me AND I doubt I'll ever purchase an original so would love to hear about the differences. As a point of discussion - I agree that Freddie gave his approval on the book but I doubt he actually read it. All the statements from Phoebe in his books and his blog have always emphasized that he NEVER saw FM reading except some catalogs whether due to his impatience or lack of interest. Plus, I believe it was given to the band in the year before his death when he was working so hard on his music and suffering so badly, I just don't see it. I feel that at that point, he either: asked someone to skim it for him, blindly gave his approval because he knew he could trust these people with sensitive info, or figured "who cares - I won't be here" (can't remember the exact quote). Obviously, I could be wrong but, if I'm right, it's at least nice to know that he felt he could trust the authors with details of his life and does add weight that their info can be trusted! Katydid - will answer your question from the other thread here re: Montreux - I have no doubt that everyone would indulge me and look at it as an enjoyable time! They all love Queen too, just not obsessed like I am! It just might really come down to time off/cost of airfare/cost of event tickets. One couple is going to Paris this month, we are all going to Ireland in April and I regularly travel to Fl to see my daughter so when you add all that up, it gets expensive! |
doughnut 10.09.2019 17:32 |
Amidds I must admit that it did cross my mind about Freddie reading the book . I think they said Jan 91 but I could be wrong . In one way I think he wouldn't have had the time or inclanation but part of me recalls what a perfectionist he was and makes me think he would have wanted to proof read it . Either way it has band approval unlike so many others . Regarding in his own words , it's £9.99 on UK Amazon . I don't get how they can charge so much more for it in the us . I have it and it's hardcover size but more softcover if this makes sense. The cover has a !lovely photo of Freddie . There is a character whereby Freddie talks about not being able to dance very well but Roger got him in the dance floor once and he said he ended up trying to do what he did on. stage , treading on people's feet along the way. He said he didn't do it often as a result. I don't recall this from the original book . Also a quote saying ' Edith Piaf did it and so can I , I have a,hairdresser husband ' I see you are visiting Ireland, what part ? It's lovely in Ireland . I too would love to visit montreaux . |
JB050 10.09.2019 17:34 |
I made it here!!! Took me a minute to find right thread. Haha. Doughnut-thanks for starting it. Re-posting update now that I’m in right place: All- made good progress on AIB last night. Made some notes and taking pic of certain pages since won’t have book to refer to. If anyone has specific page know we will discuss if you let me know I’ll make sure to copy that page before returning. Haaa haaa. Hope everyone is having a good day. |
doughnut 10.09.2019 17:34 |
Chapter not character |
doughnut 10.09.2019 17:36 |
Jb glad you made it. I can't think of anything specific so feel.free to start . When do you have to return it ? |
JB050 10.09.2019 17:41 |
I had a funny question. All speculation of course. Wonder if Peter F would have insight: laughing as I type I wondered if Freddie would have read the book or asked someone to read it to him. :) just wondering. Thank you again for your kindness and patience waiting for me to catch up. I’m sure it’s challenging to wait so long after your done and ready. I should be done this week. Am I the only one still reading? If so, please feel free to discuss. Will be fun to see points as I read. I have noted some questions too. Thank you again so much for thinking about me and waiting for me. :)) |
JB050 10.09.2019 17:54 |
Katy, so interesting that you liked it better on second read! I’m catching up on this thread now. Going to read all posts during my lunch hour. Can’t wait to see the insights, questions, and discussions |
JB050 10.09.2019 18:06 |
Ok. Disregard my question. Great minds thinking alike. I hadn’t caught up yet to see it covered. I am somewhere in the middle (Haha) although lean toward old school do I got both. Kindle, so i can search and highlight and read anywhere and softcover (to add to collection and do like holding a book too. It was doable. (I did get 11.00 in US Amazon) Doughnut- due back on Sept. 16th. Seriously good with starting and not holding up. You have all been extremely kind and impressive waiting so long after you finished. My thanks!! |
JB050 10.09.2019 18:11 |
Katy! Oh yes! I sure do hear his voice and inflections from interviews. For ones I haven’t heard I’m imagining how he would say it. After reading some pchapters in IHOW I’m excited to see there may actually be some I haven’t seen yet. Yay! I’ll definitely be asking about those in case anyone has and has links. It did sound like some may have been unreleased. Anyone coming across some unfamiliar quotes too?? I absolutely love that book. Can soooo see and hear him. :) |
JB050 10.09.2019 18:18 |
You know you’ve watched interviews a lot when noting a word missing from a quote. Haha. Unless he said it similarly in a different interview. Swear I’ve seen two so far where seems like a word is missing. Hahahaha |
JB050 10.09.2019 18:26 |
See what happens when I try to make up for lost time :). Last one for me for now—-I think.... “Also a quote saying ' Edith Piaf did it and so can I , I have a,hairdresser husband ' ——wonder if this is one of the previously unreleased quotes since he was so protective. Has anyone seen/heard him interview where he says this. Hard to tell since they are putting different interviews together... if that line as part of the 1987 Ibiza interview. |
doughnut 10.09.2019 18:38 |
Jb I have read somewhere in the internet that he said the hairdresser quote to.a German reporter . I've been trying to find and having no luck . I don't think he said it to David wigg but could be wrong . It's makes sense he said it to a German reporter as he lived more openly in munich . Did you see that I think Freddie talking about his dancing in a club once wasn't great . I'm sure that's a new bit. |
Amidds 10.09.2019 19:26 |
How interesting! I haven't heard either of those quotes regarding the hairdresser husband or dancing in a club! I LOVE when something new comes up!!! I agree with the point of Freddie approving the book even if he didn't read it. I hope Phoebe does his blog again because that would definitely go on my list of questions for him! Doughnut - I'll try to be brief so as not to bore anyone but our tentative stops in Ireland so far are: Dublin, Blarney Castle, Ring of Kerry, King Johns Castle, Burren National Park, the Cliffs of Moher/Aran Islands and Newgrange. Trying to pacify everyone's wish list in the 1 week we will be there! It would honestly take me a month to see everything worthwhile! We do plan on staying in 2 castle airbnb's as well - so excited!!! If you have any suggestions, would love to hear them! The list I have so far has mainly come from recommendations. I also thought briefly about a stop in Carlow but am thinking not at this point. |
JB050 10.09.2019 21:53 |
Please stop me if I’m revealing too much ahead of anyone’s reading. Anyone recognize this quote from IHOW... I don’t recall seeing/ hearing it before. It’s so funny... They can go and buy somebody else’s record. I’m not going to lose sleep or come up in a rash if somebody says, “Oh my God, that’s terrible!” I’m too long in the tooth, dears. |
JB050 10.09.2019 23:05 |
Amidds! Sounds like an Amazing trip. Having people who want to travel is so great! I know what you mean about those decisions of how much and what to do. Will be an AIB night again for me. :) woo hoo! |
Katydyd5 11.09.2019 00:04 |
I did a mini comparison between the old and new copies of IHOW, and it looks to me so far like some of the quotes are fleshed out. I can't even begin to do Freddie's accent so when I'm reading, I'm not hearing him all the time. However, specific words pop out at me in his accent. This is silly, but for some reason today I read the word "household" in his accent. It almost jumped out at me. I think because I've heard him say it in the bubble bath video at the very end, and I find "household" to be more of a British word. I have no idea why. JB, I think I liked AIB better the second time around because it was an early read for me. This time I was much more familiar with the timeline and the book flowed along. Still, I do find it kind of dry, so I'm hoping you guys can jump start me with some questions or observations. |
JB050 11.09.2019 01:13 |
Katy. That’s so funny. I love it. Yes! I know exactly what you mean. That happened to me in some places too. |
Amidds 11.09.2019 01:49 |
So here’s something interesting, a difference between IHOW and AIB.....chapter 3 of IHOW, Freddie is talking about performing BoRhap live and how they never use back up tapes. I believe in AIB, Jackie stated that they used tapes for the opera portion all the time when performing BoRhap due to the difficulty of performing it live. I don’t have my notes with me on AIB so maybe I’m not sourcing this right. Anyone notice this? I’m not implying any lies here, the discrepancy just jumped out at me. Honestly, I would expect back up tapes during that song, if not just because recreating it live would be difficult but the strain on their voices could affect the rest of the show. Maybe.... I’m no singer! |
Jimmy Dean 11.09.2019 02:21 |
When they performed bohrhap originally, it was part of a medley - no backing tapes at all as it excluded the opera section altogether. However, he probably means no backing tapes during their performance. The opera section was not performed, just played with a light show. So both statements are accurate. And given the multi tracks on the opera section, it would be very obvious if they attempted to do that live without backing tapes. Maybe I’m being a dick but have you actually listened to a live rendition of BohRhap that was not from live aid? |
JB050 11.09.2019 09:58 |
Amidds, I was just reading about that. Thought it was in IHOW, but not positive. Since I was flipping between the two...not sure which book. Haha. I’ll be cross-checking :)) |
Amidds 11.09.2019 12:29 |
Jimmy Dean, I appreciate your insight but maybe I should have been more clear to those who might not be reading the books. In IHOW, FM said that yes, they sang it mostly in medleys but then decided to perform the song in its entirety w/o the backing tapes because tapes were NEVER used. In AIB, it was said that they performed the song in its entirety on many occasions WITH tapes. And yes, I have seen many performances of BoRhap but it’s always been in medley. That makes sense to me due to the operatic portion as I said previously. Unfortunately neither book sourced exactly with performances they were referencing so I was looking for some insight. JB, since you still have AIB, maybe you can see if Jackie referenced something that I don’t remember? |
JB050 11.09.2019 15:06 |
will do!! :)) |
JB050 12.09.2019 03:51 |
Amidds—I am working on your great research question. (I love those kind of questions!) I am spoiled with the books I have on kindle for quick searches. Although it’s good for me to have to do hands on research. Im still flipping through the book. I’ve skimmed the chapters when bohemian rhapsody was released and some of the touring pages. Am continuing on.... I’m determined. Haha. |
JB050 12.09.2019 03:55 |
It’s also interesting that, as you said, we don’t k ow which interview/date when he said that.... all very interesting. |
JB050 12.09.2019 12:51 |
Good morning all. While I’m still researching :). I have a question to throw out: Page 130 AIB anyone else seeing it as they are showing Garden Lodge being discovered and purchased in 1980. I think it was Jim’s book that said late 70’s. Thought read something by Peter that said late 70’s too. Anyone else recall that too? Thoughts? Very interesting... Have a nice day! |
Amidds 12.09.2019 13:05 |
JB - wow, I remember that striking me too! Not only the year but the fact that FM discovered Garden Lodge while he was out and about (on his own) vs. found my Mary. It's funny that the little things strike you too :). I know it's not a big deal, just gets me wondering if it's bad memories that make the differences, lack of attention to detail or something else. Hmmm, another research project? |
JB050 12.09.2019 14:29 |
Amidds- I love it! yep me too I. I like that our brains work the same. Haha. I thought the same exact thing you did: not at all a big deal in the big scheme of things, similar timeframe. But does make our brains go on curiosity overdrive. :-))). And, wonder who may have been involved, if anyone in the process, where he was in his life, etc. Yes more research for sure. I try to turn it off and yet find myself deep in details. :))) they just pop out. |
Amidds 13.09.2019 15:03 |
Another discrepancy.....in reviewing my notes from AIB - the references to IBEX and Wreckage contradict other accounts. Specifically, AIB mentions FM being friends with Roger and Brian prior to him joining IBEX and states that FM started the band Wreckage. Other sources (including Minns book I believe) state that FM joined IBEX and talked them into changing the name to Wreckage. I was trying to verify the into today and came across the FM.com site (where Phoebe's blog is) and that source says that FM met Brian and Roger after he had joined Wreckage. Again, not a big deal I suppose but it really makes you wonder what you can believe from "good sources" when even something like this differs. Oh well, just this will just go on the "mystery" wall lol! |
JB050 13.09.2019 17:54 |
Amidds That’s so funny. And reminded me of the story one of the Wreckage band mates told in an interview about him calling each member saying the others were good with changing the name.... he said the same to each of them. So perfectly slick. And so perfectly before call waiting. Haha. Our detailed research brains are on fire... in the best way. :) |
JB050 13.09.2019 21:27 |
Haha!!! Haven’t seen / heard this quote before Page 1705—-IHOW——-“Mr Bad Guy is released on CBS, you know; Cocks, Bollocks and Satisfaction!” On kindle it shows that 4 readers highlighted it so far. Haha |
JB050 14.09.2019 14:24 |
Katy (I did a mini comparison between the old and new copies of IHOW, and it looks to me so far like some of the quotes are fleshed out.) Are you noticing a big difference? Cool that you are seeing more from all the info you have gathered. I definitely will want to do another read so many good details to remember. :) |
Katydyd5 14.09.2019 15:12 |
JB, no, not much difference at all other than a bit more detail in some of the quotes. I'm still glad I have this one because I began to highlight things I liked. Normally I won't mark a book at all, but there were things I wanted to remember. I do like having his thoughts all in one place. |
JB050 16.09.2019 12:32 |
Good morning! In AIB says Freddie popped out of a Santa in Australia, I believe. (There first experience there was very interesting) Has Anyone come across a video of him doing that? Thanks Katy! I agree. It’s so great to be immersed in these books. |
Amidds 16.09.2019 14:24 |
JB, those are the little nuggets I love to read about! I remember searching around after I read that and couldn't find a video or other mention of it, so disappointing!! Loved the CBS quote you mentioned! I'm only about halfway through IHOW. I admit, the lack of sourcing and continuity, when they seem to combine different quotes together, throws me off! I agree, Katydyd, it's nice to have all his thoughts in one place, I just feel it could've been done a bit better. I think that's the "researcher" in me. I hear a quote and think "that's now how I remember that" or "that sounds familiar but I can't remember where I read that" and then I either go down the rabbit hole trying to find it or get lazy and move on lol! |
doughnut 16.09.2019 14:56 |
amidds Greg Brooks is on FB and does answer questions as best as he can. Maybe get yourself over to his page if you have FB as it may help with discrepancies x |
Amidds 16.09.2019 15:21 |
Doughnut, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. I know it's a "me" problem, that the discrepancies are irritating so I really just try to get over it lol! |
Amidds 16.09.2019 17:47 |
Does anyone recognize this quote or know the context? "At the moment I’m living totally alone, believe it or not, and I’m loving it. I’ve got rid of three people that worked with me and that was wonderful." Chapter 6 of IHOW. About mid chapter if you have the book, pg 1532 if you have Kindle. In trying to go in time with the quote in the chapter, it would seem to be after 1985 and doesn't ring any bells for me. |
JB050 16.09.2019 22:46 |
Hi Amidds!! I swear I heard him say that in an interview. Can’t remember if it as audio or video. Think it was a David W interview. I will see if I can locate it. Maybe someone else will come up with it right away. :)) I also did more AIB reading last night. Still not coming across the Bohemian Rhapsody performance answer. But still have ground to cover. Also. I finally checked rather than rely on my memory and my copy is due back Thursday. They said if no-one has it on reserve, I may be able to get an extension. Yay! No reading for me tomorrow because.......I’ll be at WWRY....Can’t wait! |
JB050 16.09.2019 22:47 |
Doughnut, really good to know!! |
Amidds 16.09.2019 22:56 |
OMG JB! How exciting! Be sure to give us a “review” on WWRY. That’s another one of those things where I’ve heard good and bad things about, couldn’t make up my mind so I’m gonna miss it. At this point I just keep telling myself that I’ll put the $ towards Montreux but, if that ends up not happening, I will be one sorry chick! |
Katydyd5 16.09.2019 23:46 |
One comment on IHOW. It's not sourced, it can make you crazy if you know the quote but can't quite place it, but I do like having his words in one place. I also like that the book is organized by topic. If I'm looking for something specific I can locate the topic and check. JB, would you put your WWRY review on the other thread? I don't check this one often and I'd like to see what you think. |
Galileo1564 17.09.2019 01:43 |
There was some discussion of audio books on Thor’s thread. I thought I’d answer here as this is the book thread. I really like audio books. They’re great in the car when I don’t want to listen to music, and while doing household chores. And just when I don’t want to read a physical book. I have Queen Unseen as an audiobook and enjoyed the way it was read. |
JB050 17.09.2019 01:54 |
Hi Amidds and Katy, I will definitely post about WWRY on the other thread :). Amidds, ya, I watched a snip online but didn’t want to see too much ahead. :)) |
darcy-wright 17.09.2019 03:49 |
As it began was my first book or any knowledge of any thing Queen back in the 90s. I remember reading the discography wondering what the b sides were like as not remotely a possibility of ever hearing. and having no internet to fact check was the gospel, truth, lies and exagerations. good to see in 2019 that hasnt ended for a man whos been dead 28 years. |
JB050 17.09.2019 04:36 |
Galileo- great idea. Hmmm I may have to put Queen Unseen on my to-read list. Doughnut - mentioned Greg Brooks (thanks again) of course I had to find him online and came across an interview, which most of you have probably heard, with him about how he worked behind the scenes to assist with requests during the making of the Bohemian Rhapsody movie. It was really interesting. I need to finish it. Also great audio for the car! It was so cool to hear him describe the level of organization of Queen’s archives. Not surprised. Haven’t heard him before. Could have listened to him talk for hours. :) Darcy-Wright. Very interesting! Do you recall what resource you discovered after AIB in he 90s? Right, no internet. How did you discover AIB? |
Amidds 17.09.2019 14:27 |
Galileo, Queen Unseen was a very good book! Had me laughing a lot and was interesting to hear about the behind the scenes stuff. Definitely recommend to anyone who hasn't picked that up. Darcy, even now, in 2019, the fact checking is hard! While the info is out there, now you have to wade through some crap to find the good stuff unfortunately! I do love that I can just pop over to YouTube and play the songs they're referencing in the books while I'm reading though! JB, haven't heard that interview with Greg Brooks yet, will have to find. Most social media is blocked at my office and I haven't had time to look him up at home yet. |
cmsdrums 17.09.2019 14:52 |
Katydyd5 wrote: I also like that the book is organized by topic. If I'm looking for something specific I can locate the topic and check. .This would be possibly with most books if they had a comprehensive index of key words. |
JB050 17.09.2019 16:40 |
Amidds. This is the one I was listening to. So good. link I’ll post it on the other thread too in case anyone else is interested. |
Amidds 18.09.2019 00:40 |
JB, thanks for the link it was very cool. That would be such an awesome job! I could just see myself getting nothing done though cause I would be so in awe of everything to see lol! Hope you’re having a blast at WWRY!!! Doughnut, does Greg Brooks have a specific FB account where he answers questions? After I dusted off my FB login info (it’s literally been years), I found a page for him but it didn’t seem like he was taking questions??? Maybe I didn’t look too hard but thought I’d ask. |
darcy-wright 18.09.2019 02:20 |
I don't remember exactly who got me the book, but expect that it was my Dad. i would have been 12ish.. His friend from work probably advised him as he had all the lps and cds and solo and singles in his house so he copied all his records onto cassette tapes for me. I did do a famous person report on brian may as safer (being only a few years after freddies death) and used aib as a reference / bible - but I still got razzed for liking a "poof" band and a "poof guitar player who was gay with freddie etc etc" and the classic ... course no-one had access to stuff except what older brothers parents / uncles told em, so was like yelling at the wind when I said the book says he has a wife / new wife / kids.... |
Amidds 18.09.2019 16:01 |
Darcy, do you still have that AIB book? If so - HOLD ONTO IT! They are so hard to find right now and a few of us had to go through quite a bit to find library copies. Of course, it's probably just a matter of time before it gets republished but who knows? How sad that you had that experience giving your report. It's too bad that some people will never change. It's like they WANT to live with hate in their hearts and hold on to negative, unfounded beliefs no matter what. I'm sure their ignorant minds wouldn't have changed if they had heard differently from Brian, Roger and John directly!! |
Amidds 18.09.2019 18:12 |
JB - I found it!!! AIB references a Milwaukee concert in Jan 1977 where "they played Bohemian Rhapsody in its entirety for the first time". I will see if there is another mention but I'm guessing not. I believe that was a rarity and doubt that concert was ever recorded..... |
cmsdrums 18.09.2019 18:25 |
I don’t believe for one moment they played Bo Rhap ‘in its entirety’ and this is just inaccurate use of language: I reckon that reference means it was the first time they didn’t just stop after the solo and segue into another track, but played the opera part on tape and came back out for the heavy section to complete the song. Besides, it wouldn’t be ‘in its entirety’ as they wouldn’t have played the pre piano vocal intro part! |
Amidds 18.09.2019 18:32 |
JB, I spoke too soon lol! It does say that they left the stage during the multi-track section. I guess that does still answer the question though - they did play it in it's "entirety" per the FM quote, just not the operatic section which still doesn't surprise me. |
JB050 19.09.2019 01:49 |
Woo hoo Amidds!!! Way to go!!! You get the research gold star! Sadly, my copy is returned, but I am on list to get it back. Haha! I really like your reply to Darcy! Darcy, how cool that you did a report on Brian!! Do you recall what your teacher said? Sounds like you had a great music influence :) Glad you held to your love of Queen and didn’t feel influenced by the negativity of your peers. I always think how unfortunate it is that people close off what is good in the world that way. I remember (informally) debating classmates in high school who didn’t like The Who (Haha) I’m glad you came to this thread! Hope you stay! |
Amidds 19.09.2019 13:18 |
JB - after one of your recent posts, I returned to the library to request it again. They hadn't returned it so I got it back lol!!! I have a much better idea of the info I want to look up in it and will take more notes in the next 2 weeks-because I, apparently, have nothing better to do ;). CMS - I definitely agree that "entirety" was not meant literally. However, with Queen liking to play their songs differently live so the fans got a different experience from just listening to the album, I was really hoping for some rare gem where they had played some full version of it! Again, obviously without the extensive layering/opera parts. I love stumbling across some live version of one of their songs that I haven't seen before and hearing how they mix it up - so damn interesting!! |
JB050 19.09.2019 20:42 |
Amidds. Haha! I love it. Great minds.....thinking alike! This is perfect actually because my wait is 3 weeks. |
JB050 19.09.2019 20:42 |
Amidds. Haha! I love it. Great minds.....thinking alike! This is perfect actually because my wait is 3 weeks. |
JB050 20.09.2019 05:26 |
Question From IHOW—- Is the “I cry rivers” quote a little out of context or has anyone heard it said together this way? In terms of love, you’re never in control and I hate that feeling. I’ve cried rivers. I may be tough on the outside, but I’m very soft-centred. I just remember hearing it in the DW interview when asked if he ever cries and what triggers it. And he said it’s s build up ... Thanks! |
Amidds 20.09.2019 13:05 |
JB - seriously, we may want to get tested.....just caught that too! I had also just read a post from Ask Phoebe where someone asked if he ever saw Freddie cry and he basically said no. Just thought it was interesting that I came across this topic so closely together in time. Not sure what you mean by out of context though - in relation to the other quotes in the chapter? I've decided to re-read the books I have, now that I have read so much, for comparison. Decided to start with the David Minns book (re-issued after his death) and I seriously forgot how distraught Minns sounds in the first few chapters....... |
JB050 20.09.2019 15:09 |
Amidds-good idea to go back and read. I may get to join you. Just might take me a little bit. Yes out if context meaning it was put in with quotes in same paragraph that I wasn’t sure he really said all at the same time to add up to the meaning that he cries from feeling out of control in relationships. Which could be true, don’t we all .. haha. But struck me because I thought I recalled David specifically ask if he cries, he said yes I cry rivers, and David asked what would make you cry, relationships? He said it’s more of a build up of things. I’m so like it sounds you are my curious, detailed mind wants to unpack and understand details even though I know some of the interview answers were cleverly evasive to maintain his privacy. It’s really less about trying to figure out when he cried(Haha) as wondering if he said it exactly that way and I missed it. I love that... we should get tested. We are amazingly in sync! |
JB050 20.09.2019 15:11 |
Also dawns on me that we are probably hearing edited audio that the archivist have more than what we hear which is really cool too. |
Amidds 20.09.2019 16:18 |
Can't locate that exact quote but, there were times while reading IHOW where I did feel as if they were crossing interviews/quotes, etc because it would seem a little out of context. Freddie did have a tendency in interviews to start to answer then change direction or act nervous. And yes, the unfortunate need to hide so much of himself to protect Queen, his family, friends, etc. Saw this on another QZ thread which kinda relates to what we're talking about and, as it's his pre-smoking years (he said he started to give his hands something to do) you can see the restlessness or nervousness. link |
JB050 21.09.2019 14:30 |
Hi Amidds! is the book you are re-reading This Was The Real Life by David Evans and David Minns? Or do you have something different? I can’t watch these interviews enough too. It is interesting to watch the early interviews of just him and then later ones with him smoking, having drinks etc. I had come across a radio interview (maybe from QZ) from Chicago/70s I think where you could hear Freddie and the interviewer pouring and drinking tea, and think they may have had Food item to go along w it but not positive. I just remember could hear the glasses clinking etc. it’s interesting but not surprising that, in a way, his interviews were also ‘entertainment’ I often think he would have had that all thought through. I wonder what his interview preparation was like, if he did any at all. |
JB050 21.09.2019 14:30 |
Hi Amidds! is the book you are re-reading This Was The Real Life by David Evans and David Minns? Or do you have something different? I can’t watch these interviews enough too. It is interesting to watch the early interviews of just him and then later ones with him smoking, having drinks etc. I had come across a radio interview (maybe from QZ) from Chicago/70s I think where you could hear Freddie and the interviewer pouring and drinking tea, and think they may have had Food item to go along w it but not positive. I just remember could hear the glasses clinking etc. it’s interesting but not surprising that, in a way, his interviews were also ‘entertainment’ I often think he would have had that all thought through. I wonder what his interview preparation was like, if he did any at all. |
Amidds 21.09.2019 14:41 |
Yes, that’s the book but it’s the one that was re-released by David Evans after Davis Minns death so includes portions of memoir Minns was working on. Have you read that? I also posted a YouTube link on the other forum that you should check out. Wanted to share with the bigger forum but it is a Phoebe interview which actually touches on some topics we’ve discussed here. Not enough hours in the day to watch all the videos out there! Interesting thought on FM preparing for an interview! He disliked them so much that I can’t see him “wasting” any more time on them than necessary BUT, there was such a huge portion of his life he felt he had to keep hidden that I can also see him giving some thought to previous statements he made to keep consistent????? Excellent Phoebe question actually! |
JB050 22.09.2019 02:56 |
Hi Amidds-so strange I swore I replied to your post-but didn’t show up. Must not have hit “post reply” I do have the same version of the book that you do. Woo hoo! I’m glad we will be re-reading and discussing it. There is a passage from David Minns that I go back to often ... his explanation of the generations. It’s so perfectly insightful. I also think about David Evan’s saying He hoped David was remembered for more than the relationship-how much he had done and contributed. I have a hard time finding more about him than what is in the book—-Which is excellent. Maybe I’ll search QZ too. Great minds think alike....interview prep question submitted. :) Hope your having a nice weekend. Mine’s been pretty full... please excuse delayed replies. ;) |
Katydyd5 23.09.2019 12:47 |
The Evans/Minns books is one of my favorites. I liked hearing impressions of Freddie from people who were, for the most part, less well known. |
Amidds 23.09.2019 13:25 |
Yes Katydyd I agree! I feel as if the less well known give us a sense of Freddie as he was in real life instead of the persona he felt like he needed to project. JB-in re-reading his book and being more familiar, I find myself almost amazed at times with how much David contributed. It is unfortunate that both David's will probably be most remembered for their relationship with FM along with people like Joe Fanelli and the unfortunate John Murphy (all the lies). And, of course, when you try to search more about them because they become "known" to you through the readings, all you find is the same old stories/lies/rumors that have been circulating for years. Minn's quote from the book "it was, and still is claimed by those homophobes surrounding him that I, and I alone made, or turned Freddie gay" seems to be the info I find most about him. So sad!!!! |
JB050 23.09.2019 23:44 |
Hello Katy & Amidds!! I completely agree with you both. I have done various keyword searches, even including Paul McCartney and keeps coming up with relationship info. I’m so glad that David E included the memoir writing, and what an absolutely beautiful tribute. So, this is the perfect “book” conversation for a question I had noted, since we are juggling 3 books. (Love it) Page 91. AIB Says in summer 1975, Freddie was introduced to Eddie Howell. Wasn’t that a David Minns introduction? Wasn’t David managing Eddie? Why suppose David was not included? Sounded like they were able to be friendly later on Freddie visiting him, . David going to 40th Hat party, etc. I checked This Was The Real Life—confirmed Here is the quote: “The year I met Freddie was one of great hopes and great excitement. For the show case launch of The Eddie Howell Gramophone Record, Moira Bellas at Warners had found Thursdays Club a restaurant bar in Kensington High Street almost next door to the Hypermarket where Freddie had once sold second hand clothes. Eddie had been rehearsing with fellow band members including Phil Collins who amazingly agreed to play at the launch attended by press, industry folk. Early evening all our friends, Eddie’s family and most of Warners staff had gathered to support him and the place was packed. To my absolute surprise Freddie was very keen to be with me and I was thankful for his support.” Your thoughts? |
Amidds 24.09.2019 01:15 |
Trying to phrase this the right way so I don’t sound like I’m being petty BUT, AIB, seems to be one of those things written to exclude Freddie’s sexuality. No reference to his partners, really, except very short references to Jim. Even then, those references are non- specific as to their relationship. When they reference the other band members’ relationships, they are much more specific. I believe it was out of respect of Freddie’s wishes though so I’m not complaining, however, point being that, if they aren’t going to go down that road, how could they include David Minns? And, since AIB was mostly written, and approved by all band members, before Freddie’s death, they would have essentially been outing him. So, I get what they were doing but it makes me appreciate the books out there by Minns, Hutton and Phoebe that don’t hide the truth. Of course, Thor and Lee’s book will help to fill in an important part of his life that is honest and Is missing from other sources! |
JB050 24.09.2019 01:42 |
Great point!!! |
JB050 24.09.2019 12:14 |
And keeping in mind the timeframe when this was written is a perfect perspective too. :) thanks! We have the information now so it catches our eye but when this book was released it would not have been known. It’s good how protective they were. And I agree it’s so good that David and Jim were able to tell their stories and that we have those too. Have a nice day! |
JB050 25.09.2019 17:47 |
Amidds and Katy—so much fun listening to this interview again. You are right, not enough time in the day for reading, listening/watching. This is the 1977 Detroit interview where he talks about stage sho and tapes, among other things. Great interview, I think. And, the one where he is having tea. :) link |
Amidds 26.09.2019 13:58 |
JB-nice interview. Love how you found this with the BoRhap reference!!! We have an internet company putting new cables in our neighborhood so we've been losing internet for hours at a time.....of course I lost service while listening to this and wanted to go out and yell at them!!! (Geez, third world problem lol!). Of course, I get to concentrate on the books more now.....I just came across the mention in AIB about the ad FM did for Vogue. I must not have paid much attention to it the first read through, but, found the ad and had no idea that that's where that pic came from!!! I've seen that pic so many times and had no idea!!! Am i the only one? |
JB050 26.09.2019 21:43 |
Amidds! You are so NOT alone!!! I had no idea either. I do need to finish, then re-read AIB. It has so much in it. Yay! Something new to us!!’ Too funny, I imagine you yelling hey, Freddie's Talking ... haha. I like your perspective that gives you time for the books. It’s such a toss-up sometimes. :)) Thank you for the new information!! |
Amidds 27.09.2019 14:08 |
Posting here because this is the "book thread". Interesting post by Greg Brooks on QZ explaining why they didn't source quotes in IHOW and confirmation that some quotes were condensed. Nice to see the explanation and decisions for the how/why and totally makes sense. Warning: I would read his initial post then get the heck out of there fast!! Lots of vitriol, etc. which is totally unnecessary when Greg was just giving an explanation. link |
MyHumanZoo 27.09.2019 16:22 |
Thank you all for this book discussion, I have read most of the books on Freddie and Queen but haven’t launched into AIB yet mainly because of the price (really wish it was on Kindle). You all have convinced me to make the investment and read it! I read the book from David Minns, that wasn’t one of my favorites, mainly because it felt like it didn’t have much info I was interested in, but I will have to go back and read it again now that you have discussed it here. I think I was kind of rushed when reading it so maybe just didn’t absorb as much as usual. |
Amidds 27.09.2019 17:56 |
MyHumanZoo, welcome! Not sure if you saw the discussion but most of us found a copy of AIB thru our libraries. If yours doesn't have it on the shelf, ask about their exchange program - mine came from a town 2 hours away. That way you don't have to spend hundreds to buy it!!!! I think one of the things I really like about the Minns book is it seems as if both David's talk so openly about FM even if its not in a good light. It shows a different side that makes Freddie so much more human and relatable! I've never heard of them being discredited by knowledgable people who knew Freddie either so I tend to trust it. I rushed through most of the books the first time too cause I was so excited and have found myself learning/enjoying a lot more in my second (and sometimes third) read!! |
JB050 27.09.2019 18:26 |
Amidds!! Great find!!! Thank you for the link!!! Have to go back for whole thing but did see point he made. I agree it’s so good to hear it from him! MyHumanZoo-welcome!! So glad your here and will join in the ‘book club’ I also got it they library sharing, at Amidds’ tip. :)) |
MyHumanZoo 27.09.2019 20:07 |
Thank you Amidds! I have looked at our library and exchange system but they don’t have AIB or actually any other books related to Queen. I am in Indiana in the US, guess there must not be a big call for that here. So whatever I get on them is purchased, unfortunately. The one upside is that I can read them over and over at my leisure! I think on the David Minns book you are right, it is more personal and shows another view of Freddie. I think my heart wants to believe Freddie had no bad moments, so when I read that I probably am a little bummed. My head knows that of course he was a bit of a diva and that no one is perfect so he surely had bad behavior, especially in relationships. Next time I read it I’ll be prepared so I can be more objective! |
Amidds 28.09.2019 00:16 |
MyHumanZoo, that’s too bad that you can’t find it at your library! It is a rather interesting read with some stories I hadn’t heard before but I can’t say I’d recommend it for the possible $400+ it might cost you. Although I guess it depends on what type of Queen info you are really looking for. I actually found IHOW more interesting and got that free from Kindle. Skipping all the reading today and re-watching BoRhap. I did not like it the first time I watched it (except for the music) because I felt that FM was portrayed as depressive and easily manipulated. trying to keep an open mind and see if I can appreciate it more the 2nd time around.....like you with the Minns book MHZ! |
JB050 28.09.2019 12:59 |
Amidds. I applaud you for trying it again. What did you think? I love all the hidden gems, cameo appearances, and details in it. (John’s Son, Brian’s daughter, Mike Meyers, Adam, Brian and Roger in the rafters, Freddie on the big screen, the phenomenal performances, and of course the music. I love seeing it with an audience for the conversations afterward. And the concert feeling. I know what you mean though every time I watch it I have to go watch actual footage. :). |
MyHumanZoo 28.09.2019 14:11 |
I felt much the same about the movie the first time through....and actually I was just so amazed at how perfectly Gwillym looked and sounded like Brian that I didn’t pay attention to much else! The 2nd time through was better, and like JB050 I could look for all the details in it I missed before. I was not as in love with Rami’s portrayal of Freddie as most were, I do feel he did well and especially the Live Aid scenes alone could earn an Oscar. But for me, his speaking pattern was so slow compared to how quickly Freddie thought and spoke, so I think that kind of added to the depressed feeling. And Freddie always had that little twinkle in his eye, which was kind of missing. Still a great movie just for all it encompasses and how many little things are represented though! |
MyHumanZoo 28.09.2019 14:17 |
I should add, I did completely enjoy IHOW, I agree that it is really the best i’ve read so far. It really shows Freddie’s thoughts on so many things, I can recognize a lot of the interviews that the words came from, but they are more complete in the book. Plus they are reinforced with similar thoughts from other interviews, which makes things more clear. And since they are Freddie’s words, we know there is nothing made up, which to me is the biggest plus. I have read some of the other books which claim to be biographies and such, but there is so much in them that is said to not be true so you just can’t believe them. |
JB050 28.09.2019 17:58 |
MHZ. I agree about IHOW and to see things from the archives. I just read this quote from IHOW. Made me laugh. Can just hear him saying this. Haha. I can talk about all kinds of things–like dirt and filth. I think I get on with most people. I’m sure I’d even get on with King Kong very well. We’re the same age. Mind you, I’ve climbed higher buildings than that! |
Amidds 28.09.2019 21:35 |
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I liked the movie even less the 2nd time :(. My husband watched it with me this time and we didn’t get half way through before he said “I’m sorry, but I can’t watch this. Queen has always been a feel good band to me and this movie is depressing. Plus, I don’t think Freddie was a deviant or desperately lonely like they’re portraying him”. Now, my husband never says anything bad about anything, especially if he knows how much I like someone or something so I was a little shocked. I tell you all this because I felt so relieved that I wasn’t alone and we turned it off. Now, my kids got a different take on the movie and enjoyed it a lot more so I don’t know if it’s just us but, I just couldn’t. I did enjoy the cameos, the music and MHZ, so spot on about Gwillym!!!! Oh, we did fast forward to live aid because that part is so good. JB, awesome quote! That’s the snarky Freddie I love!! MHZ, yes, definitely stick to the books by Peter Freestone, David Evans/Minns and Jim Hutton. Check out Phoebe’s blog (if u haven’t already) for more details and truth that you don’t get in those other “biographies”. And, of course, Thor and Lee’s book when it comes out!! |
MyHumanZoo 29.09.2019 18:33 |
You know, it seems like maybe those of us that are harder core fans that know a lot about Freddie and the band are less fans of the movie. I’m not sure why really, I get that it’s a movie and they have to change timelines and dramatize a bit, so I don’t expect perfect portrayal. But maybe because I have read so much and seen interviews I just don’t need to see anything that is not the actual people involved. Funny thing, my husband is not a Queen fan in any way, but I dragged him with me to the movie and he loved it! It shocked me, to be honest, that he loved it so much. So maybe for those that don’t know all the background info the movie is a good representation and they learn what Freddie went through. I have read Peter Freestone’s books and blogs, and also Jim’s book. I really enjoyed Phoebe’s stuff, although maybe a little more detail on the layout of the house and the table settings than I needed, lol! Jim’s book was ok, I was uncomfortable with all the intimate stuff, and I felt like he came across as pretty bitter about a lot of stuff. But it did have some good info too. I am curious, what parts of the other biographies are not true? Just generally, I always wonder when people say that what parts have been embellished or made up. |
Amidds 29.09.2019 19:27 |
You may be right MHZ! Or, in my case, I’m just used to Freddie and don’t like the change so much. I’m glad though that a lot of people did enjoy it and it really exposed a whole new generation to a band who may not have been familiar with their music!! I agree with Phoebes books and the home descriptions. A lot of that is just that I don’t have a good imagination though, I really need to see things to “get it” sometimes. I also get what you mean about Jim’s book, I just tried to keep in mind that someone wrote it for him and probably included stuff that came up in conversation that Jim didn’t realize would be printed. I don’t feel he was bitter though, I think he was just being honest, open and trying to give the writer a total sense of what life was like with Freddie, good and bad. I trust the people less who seem to only show one side because it makes me wonder what they might be hiding. And, if you take FM’s words to heart, he wanted his story told “warts and all”. As far as other biographies, there are so many things that have been proven false, idk if I could remember them all. A couple big things that come to mind are all the stories about John Murphy and Gaeten Dugan being the ones to give FM AIDS, the fact that he NEVER met Princess Diana and snuck her into gay bars or that Freddie had a relationship with Rudolph Nureyev. I saw a book listed on Amazon and the blurb mentioned that that false relationship caused the death of those two and ALL of the NY daughters. You probably didn’t want me to write a small novel here so I’ll just stop now lol! |
MyHumanZoo 29.09.2019 22:09 |
No worries about writing a novel, I figured there were probably a bunch! But I do feel good that I knew those were false, so I think I have a grasp on what types of things were wrong in the books. I just didn’t want to feel super-clueless! I think for me the part of Jim’s book that seemed most bitter was the being kicked out of Garden Lodge part. In Phoebe’s follow-up book he explains (and I also saw him explain this in an interview, i’m thinking one of the question/answer sessions from either a convention or Freddie’s birthday celebration) that they had to leave Garden Lodge not because Mary suddenly got mean, but because the probate court required no one to be in the house while they settled things. Apparently they could not have people coming in and out potentially taking things of value that were part of the estate that would have to be settled. They have to do complete inventories and value all property in settling things. So Mary didn’t randomly kick them out against Freddie’s wishes. No tenants are allowed in that kind of situation. It’s possible Jim didn’t understand that, but since Phoebe did and holds no ill will against Mary for it then it’s hard to believe Jim didn’t know. And throughout the book Jim makes negative comments about Mary. And trust me, I don’t want to start a Jim vs. Mary discussion, lol! Personally, I don’t know which Freddie preferred or held at higher regard or whatever, and we will never know so I don’t spend time thinking one way or the other. I just don’t like it when someone takes shots at another person in a book, and that other person (Mary) has never publicly said anything negative about them (Jim). Just my reasoning behind the impression of Jim being somewhat bitter! |
Amidds 30.09.2019 13:33 |
MHZ, unfortunately, there is so much out there, true and false, we are all kind of clueless still! I feel as if there are many stories/truths still out there that people like Phoebe don't/won't talk about out of respect for Freddie's memory and legacy and those he left behind. I totally respect that!!! I don't venture into too much about Jim/Mary due to the backlash on both sides. I feel as if there are certain truths we can count on because we saw/heard about them from reliable sources. Freddie said he was gay, to everyone. If he wanted to be with Mary, not Jim, he would've been. While he hid truths to the public behind snark and sarcasm, he lived his private life honestly as much as he could. Mary was a very trusted friend, otherwise, he would've gotten her out of his life. After the death of a loved one, many people feel anger, hurt, confusion, etc. I'm sure those were very painful/confusing times for EVERYONE. I don't fault Phoebe and Jim for being a little bitter but they both reached out to Mary later to check on her and try to keep in touch so, whatever bad feelings surfaced, for whatever reason, they seem to have moved beyond it. I also feel as if we have to remember these were very different times, gay people were still being strongly persecuted, didn't have full legal rights in regards to many things like wills/probate so it's very possible that contributed to the confusion/feelings at the time. There are so many undisputed stories out there about Freddie's generosity and love, those are what people should focus on instead of taking a "side" and getting so angry. |
MyHumanZoo 30.09.2019 16:44 |
Thank you Amidds, it is nice to have a rational discussion on this!??. I feel the same, Freddie was gay (or bi, either way) and he had both Jim and Mary in his life and obviously loved them both, albeit in different ways as time went on. I can definitely see why the guys may have been a little bitter towards Mary if they reached out to her and didn’t get the response they thought they would. I imagine it had to be so awkward for all of them after Freddie passed, dealing with the pain and struggling to know how to handle things with the center of their group now gone. I could see Mary feeling badly about having them leave Garden Lodge, but perhaps thinking they held her responsible, so she was reluctant to speak with them for fear of backlash. It is easy for shyer people to retreat to silence then to embrace others. But again, I am just making assumptions so who knows how things really unfolded and how they felt? I respect all of them so much for keeping Freddie’s things private and also having to juggle the public’s thirst to know everything. It has to be such a difficult juggling act! |
JB050 01.10.2019 02:05 |
Good conversation happening. Amidds. So well said! While I’m still waiting to re-check out AIB, thought I’d throw this out from my notes: AIB Pg 86-87. Anyone come across any indication that Freddie chose jeans and tank for live-aid taking in to consideration American viewers? I always love and admire how well thought out and intentional they are/have been. :) |
LilyA 01.10.2019 15:05 |
I've only read AIB (I have the first print, signed as well) and I'm happy with that. I'm getting more and more fed up with those claiming to "know it all and know it better". Nah, not for me thanks |
JB050 01.10.2019 15:45 |
LilyA — that’s really cool that you have a signed first print... that’s amazing!!! We are enjoying reading and discussing the details. So much great info in it! |
JB050 01.10.2019 16:28 |
86-87 does not mention live aid just made me curious..... :)) |
Amidds 01.10.2019 17:03 |
LilyA - gotta say, I'm pretty jealous you have an original signed copy! I have to keep checking it out of the library and who knows how long they're gonna let me do that!! JB-thanks for the clarification with the page numbers. I couldn't find a Live Aid reference and was thinking we must have 2 different versions lol!! I think you may be onto something - lots of quotes from Freddie regarding how much thought he put into performances. What is that saying about when nothing is left give them fashion??? I know I have that wrong...... When I was looking for your reference though, I came across this in my notes..."His throat problems might have rendered Freddie speechless between shows but certainly didn't reduce him to helplessness, as an unlucky lady thief found out in Seattle. Freddie disturbed her in his hotel room pocketing his money and jewelry and gave chase. She was apprehended and arrested in the lobby". I think IHOW follows this story up with a quote about him yelling at her that she was a tart! I love that story! I could almost see him jumping on her and knocking her down like he did to Kenny Everett lol!! MHZ - I feel it is important for everyone to have their own opinion and hope we can all share ours without being reduced to idiots when expressing them!!! Hopefully this thread remains a safe space for that..... |
JB050 01.10.2019 23:43 |
Amidds— HAHA!! That was such a great story. So true, can just visualize that. Now I’ll search my kindle IHOW for that quote. “Gotta” love Kindle search. :)) Ohh great quote! If memory serves, I remember seeing that in a few places, think one was Thor’s story and other may have been an interview. I’ll look for it. :)) |
JB050 02.10.2019 04:19 |
Amidds- I found it...here is the beginning of the quote from IHOW— “In America, we seemed dogged by bad luck. On tour there in 1975, a young American tart got into my hotel room and pilfered my jewels and bracelets. She was just evacuating the room when I accosted her by the elevator. I pulled her by the hair, dragged her back into the room, emptied the contents of her bag...” |
Amidds 02.10.2019 14:46 |
YES - that's the one! My memory isn't the best for details but I do know when something sounds familiar. I literally laughed out loud again reading that! |
Amidds 04.10.2019 13:23 |
Referring back to David Minns, I recently watched the vid "We Thank You All". Minns is interviewed in it, mostly about FM's career and not their personal life (the caption for him was "friend" vs. "ex-boyfriend"). I believe it was done mid 90's? Anyway, David seems to be trying to contain some strong emotions at times. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend. I think it might even be on YouTube. You can see the love he has for Freddie and maybe puts into perspective the tone he had in his book??? |
JB050 05.10.2019 04:54 |
Amidds!! Wow!! Thank you for mentioning this!!! I will look for that. Ya, You can really feel it from him. |
JB050 07.10.2019 02:16 |
Amidds— juggling between which thread best for this. Thought this would be perfect place for starters. I really agree with you about reading and watching Dsvid s Minns talk about Queen and Freddie as someone not only so connected emotionally but also professionally, and as someone in the business, and having worked for Queen on the toad-as memory serves. He gives so much. Days have gotten away, but I will be heading back to This was the real life. |
doughnut 07.10.2019 11:13 |
I don't want to get into the jim v mary issue but thought I'd chip in lol . Jim told his side of the story and he had every right to do so. None of us were there so I feel we shouldn't question what he said did or didn't happen. However From what I take from the whole sad situation after reading both Jim and Phoebe's book (phoebe's second book ) is that they both knew the house was being left to Mary, Freddie had made this decision many years before even Phoebe and Jim knew Freddie. Jim had no problem with this, afterall he was having a bungalow built in Ireland. I feel it was how things were handled. Bearing in mind Jim was madly in love with Freddie and had shared his life with him , it must of been heartbreaking to be told to leave all the precious memories behind so soon and see the house turn into what looked like an auction house. They were moved in the mews and were only allowed into GL at certain times. These men wouldn't have taken anything that didn't belong to them. I've alsos read that the security appointed by Jim Beach were actually embarrassed at having to check what the three men were doing as they could see what was going on. I'm not going to go into it any further other than to say in this situation I feel Jim was within his rights to feel bitter on top of being in emotional pain . Mary was in pain and so were the three men and so the way things were handled didn't seem to me to be well thought out. I finished both mens books feeling Freddie would have been disappointed with how his treasured friends were treated. This is Joe, Jim and Phoebe. All in all its a terribly sad situation but as Amidds said Jim did say he had promised Freddie he would look after Mary and he did try to no avail. |
Amidds 07.10.2019 13:58 |
JB, know what you mean. Info we come across would be interesting on both boards!! No worries, I too have gotten bogged down lately and will be busy for the next week. How sad that I can't help but keep thinking about when I will have time to get back to my reading lol! Doughnut-agreed! Plus, as I've mentioned, I think there's a whole lot we don't know about and things that weren't said so as not to stir up problems. Freddie built a house for Jim and bought one for Joe, I believe in an effort to "get them settled" before he passed and also due to the fact that there seemed to be problems between those two with Mary (not each other). He probably also thought Phoebe would carry on at GL in some manner as he had for the previous 12 years. Here is where the missing info would be useful: Jim Beach, being a lawyer, would have counseled Freddie on everything for his will/probate/whatever. Assuming he is a knowledgeable lawyer, why did these problems suddenly arise after Freddie's death? Late 80's/90's, gay people still didn't have much, if any, rights or legal protections as everyone else - even Phoebe mentioned this in a blog regarding a house he shared with a friend (years later). I believe that was the reasoning behind leaving everything to Mary along with assuming Jim and Joe would pass soon. (Nobody jump on me - YES, also because he trusted her!) He may have wanted to handle things differently, allowing a distribution that would be split between Mary and the boys but was advised that it could be contested and held up for years!! I think there's a lot there that a good UK lawyer who practiced at the time could clear up! And yes, I believe Freddie would be DEEPLY saddened by how poorly everything was handled. Losing all those precious memories I had built up with a friend/husband would've made me bitter too - heaping more pain on to an already excruciating time. I do love how they were able to rise above it and move on with their lives and try to make amends with Mary. |
MyHumanZoo 07.10.2019 16:06 |
I think these are some plausible theories on what happened with Jim after Freddie’s death, but there is still so much missing that I don’t think we can assume anything. Jim says he was reaching out to Mary, but what were those interactions like? We only have Jim’s account, and let’s be honest, he’s going to give a version that makes him look favorable. When he and Mary were alone, we have no clue what really occurred, and since Mary isn’t speaking we can’t take Jim’s account as being 100% accurate. Was Jim coming across to Mary as angry and bitter? We just don’t know. Was Mary avoiding Jim because she felt bad about what the courts were requiring, and handled things by avoiding the guys, which seemed like she was being nasty? Was Mary really thumbing her nose at the guys once Freddie was out of the picture? I find that hard to believe, but again, we don’t know. So I guess at the end of the day each of us can take away whatever version feels right to us. One thing I do know after many years on this earth, is that some of the closest families I know have fallen apart fighting over an estate after a family member passes. And sadly, it seems like that’s a bit of the case here as well. I do wish it had been smoother for these guys. What I have trouble getting trying to understand, is why, if Freddie loved Jim as a husband, would he only leave him the same amount as Phoebe and Joe? And leave the rest to Mary? If he thought the guys wouldn’t be around too long, he could have made provisions for that portion of his estate to revert to Mary (or whoever) upon their passing. Eg. If he left half his estate to Jim, and then Jim died, that half moves over to being Mary’s. He did that with the portion he left to his parents, once they died he stipulated it to go to Mary. Was it the stigma of being gay, and perceiving it may hurt his parents somehow to know how much Jim meant to him by doing that? Perhaps, but he could have left much larger portions of his estate to each one than what he did. Now I am completely speculating on what Freddie thought, I sure wish Jim Beach could fill us in on why Freddie structured his will as he did! |
Amidds 07.10.2019 17:45 |
MyHumanZoo - you are absolutely right that we don't know and will probably never know. I guess it's just human nature to try to make sense of some things. You are also spot on with families fighting over estates - I have seen it many times and, so, in my family, we set up all the "necessary" paperwork to avoid any conflicts and make things easier. Maybe, luckily, I have a small family so it was gonna be easy anyway but, when my father then my brother passed, even with all that paperwork in place, my mom and I had so sign off on a bunch of stuff to protect estates/trusts and release any claims we still legally had. Kinda made the paperwork seem useless. But, all that brings me full circle to Jim Beach - none of that should've happened so either he was incompetent (which I don't believe), wasn't experienced in wills/estates (very possible as he is an entertainment and, therefore, contract lawyer) or things were left undone due to the advance of Freddie's illness. I honestly don't believe the amounts could be an indicator because homosexuality was illegal in England through 1994 and who knows what laws were on the books regarding estates passing thru probate (according to Mary, it still took YEARS), or passing it through multiple people every time someone passes and it has to go through probate again. I think Freddie did what he thought best based on the laws at the time, knowing close friends were dying, knowing he could trust Mary to follow his wishes and not wanting to burden his aging parents (plus, he seemed much closer with the family he "built"). We will never know because Jim Beach would have to break confidentiality to let the world know plus, it's really not our business. I wish it could've been handled better so as not to cause any additional suffering to anybody because there's no way Freddie would've wanted anyone to deal with that!! |
MyHumanZoo 09.10.2019 14:24 |
I find it kind of astonishing how many celebrities pass without having a will (like Prince) or maybe inadequate wills. You’d think with all that wealth they would button things up more neatly. But as with all of us, death is scary and some people just don’t care to look after those things, for a variety of reasons. In Freddie’s case, it does seem like he tried to make things well-arranged, I believe I read that several months prior to his death he got his will done with Jim Beach. I’m sure he wanted everything to be as smooth as possible for everyone and would have been sad to know that there were any ill feelings. But enough of the sad discussion! : ). I did manage to get my hands on “As It Began” through a friend with access to more extensive library collections, so hopefully I’ll receive it soon and dive in. I’m excited! |
doughnut 09.10.2019 14:50 |
Myhumanzoo all I can go on with regards to Mary change was via Thor and what he saw when he visited Peter at GL not long after Freddie's death and Shaun a Security Guard. Given that noone has a bad word to say about Jim, I really doubt he was anything but kind to her. Remember he was the one picked up by Freddie and thrown into Freddie's mad world. It must have been quite difficult a times having to make sense of the world he was in and really all he did was fall in love with Freddie. I hate it when people ask why Jim was left the same amount as Phoebe and Joe as that is so superficial. Jim had HIV and as far as Freddie knew, wasn;t going to live long term and the same with Joe. However, he had set them both up .Mary handled the financial side of GL and it's said that Freddie felt she was the only one who would be able to cope with it all. Remember there are ongoing bills to be paid etc etc . Its a massive commitment being left GL. Don't look down on Freddie'ss relationship with Jim just because he wasn't left bricks and mortar of GL. Mary hasn't written a book but in the things she has said, its painted quite a disturbing picture for me. She said she and Freddie knew he had aids during the magic tour....no one else has claimed this and this means he would have put Jim's life a risk knowing he had HIV. I really don't believe he would have done that. She also claimed the men of GL left her and they were her family, that's not what happened according to two men..Jim and Phoebe. She claimed the band were jealous of her being left GL and royalties. Very odd Why do people pick at Jim for writing a book when Phoebe and even David Evans have written books giving away lots of details about freddie. Phoebe goes into quite a lot of details about Mary and her relationship with Freddie . Lets leave Jim alone and just accept that he and Freddie were a couple in difficult times (freddie couldn't publicy come out) and mary was his very good close loyal friend that he felt could handle what he was leaving her and that he would have been hers if he hadn't of broken her heart. |
Thereuhaveit 10.10.2019 15:38 |
Hello all. This isn’t about As It Began, but have been lurking for a while, spurred by a renewed interest in Queen and Mercury. Listened to Queen in the 70s as a teen, though only on the radio as my musical interests were elsewhere. I liked Queen well enough, but with the movie, was reminded just how good the band was. Truthfully, I never realized the genius that was F Mercury. I should say that I didn’t particularly like the movie; I knew Mercury was gay, never thought of him otherwise, but was offended at implications that he was miserable in his homosexuality and a lost person, in part, because of it. In my quest to learn, I’ve discovered that the personal connections seem the truest telling of who this remarkable artist was as a man and have avoided the sensationalized bios. He was a character, to be sure, and an amazing musician. Thanks to the many QZ contributors who’ve steered me toward articles and books which draw a picture of him and to those who knew him who speak honestly; and to the interesting discussions on these threads—it’s taken some time to wade through it all. And thanks doughnut for your response above. I have a hard time believing anyone who suggests that Freddie knew he was HIV/AIDS positive before the accepted April 1987 date. Jim said that after the positive diagnosis that they forevermore practiced safe sex and any suggestion that Freddie knew he was infected with the virus before that time means that he was cravenly irresponsible and infected Jim, his partner and the person he loved. I don’t recall which documentary it’s from, but Montserrat Caballe recalls that Freddie told her he had AIDS in 1988 when she lifted a glass of water (or something) to drink and he stopped her, because it was his glass of liquid. That’s not the act of a man who would have unprotected sexual relations with his partner if he knew he was ill. I recently read an article about Rudi Dolezal and at the end, he tells this story: Near the end, Dolezal recalls, “We were in his house, sitting next to each other, watching television during the afternoon. There was no talk about AIDS.” When it came time to say goodbye, Dolezal was a little apprehensive. At the time there were all kinds of rumours about what caused the disease. And “usually when Freddie and I parted, we gave each other a kiss on the cheek,” a friendship kiss. “There was no way I would ask Freddie.” Dolezal says. “It was a nice, friendly, intimate afternoon. It came to the moment when I left. And of course, I kissed him. Because I knew, and this is very important, he would have told me not to kiss him if it was dangerous. I was safe with him. That is how Freddie was. You were safe with him. He didn’t do anything behind your back.” I just don’t buy anyone’s story who says that he knew before April 1987 that he was ill. My opinion is that it’s either folks wanting to ‘know more than everyone else’ or something passive aggressive to paint Freddie in a less than positive light. |
Amidds 10.10.2019 15:54 |
Thereuhaveit, well said and welcome!!! No worries about not posting about the book. Some of us just thought to open a new thread so we weren't clogging up another about what we were reading. Love to have open, friendly discussions about Freddie and Queen too tho! It's kinda nice that someone agrees with me on the movie. I think it's wonderful that people are enjoying it but I have not been able to for many of the reasons you stated. I am especially excited to see Thor & Lee's book (have you seen that thread?) because they will show a part of his life that seems to be missing from most other books/sites and they remember him as being so happy and accepting of himself. That was always the impression I had of him and I like to see that vs. the sad/confused Freddie I see sometimes!! MHZ, so exciting that you will be getting the book!! I think you will really enjoy it. Even though it is more of a "fact" based book on their music and concerts, they are also some funny anecdotes included that help make it a fun read! I just ordered Queen: Complete Works and expect it tomorrow, can't wait! The only problem is, I seem to have too many going right now and can't seem to keep up lol! |
Thereuhaveit 10.10.2019 20:09 |
Thanks, Amidds. I have read through all the Thor and Lee threads, as well as other threads; quite a read here on QZ! It's been very interesting and enlightening, reading from those who knew Freddie, Jim, and the rest of the characters. As for books, I've read Jim Hutton's, both of Peter Freestone's and I have David Minns' book, though I'm currently reading something else. I agree that Thor and Lee's book should be a realistic view into part of Freddie's life where he could comfortably be who he was and live, at least somewhat, anonymously. |
JB050 11.10.2019 20:13 |
Amidds. Thank you for sharing that.... I didn’t realize you lost your Father and Brother. ((Sorry) Life sure looks different all the time, doesn’t it? My Dad passed 5 years ago and still feels like yesterday. I was relating to the whirlwind of loss too. And thinking how it’s really hard to know or imagine until you are in it. I had no idea and never thought about what happens to relationships when the person who was holding them all together is gone. I think it was in Jim’s book when he said when Joe, Phoebe, and Jim got together and talked after Freddie passed, they learned more than they knew about each other. I also think there is always potential for a dynamic that exists bringing people/families/friends and partners together. In the end, I’m always so struck by Freddie’s deeply loving heart, complicated nature, level of intelligence and genius, protections he had to build up, and all that he held up. Ya, I’d say, as analytical as I am my emotions lead the way and I felt so much emotion in David and Jim’s stories, and always with Phoebe of course. My 3 cents. :)) |
JB050 11.10.2019 20:21 |
Amidds. I do understand where you come from re: movie. Even though I like it a lot: I have to separate what I know when watching. Then I have to watch an interview or actual concert footage after. Haha. There is some great humor in it though too. When I watch at home I fast forward through some parts. |
Amidds 12.10.2019 01:19 |
JB, get what you’re saying about the movie and usually I can easily separate entertainment from “reality”. I really don’t know what my issue is with that lol! I’ve decided it is what it is and it’s a few bucks I will save when I don’t buy it!! So sorry about your dad, JB! It sure is a whirlwind and it seems like nothing you do to prepare really makes a difference. I can’t imagine what it was like for Freddie, the boys and others like them that experienced so much loss in such a short time. It’s overwhelming! Sometimes I am so amazed at Phoebes (Thor, Lee, etc) strength and don’t know if I would have been able to deal with so much! I think that’s why I get upset when people judge them for writing books and sharing good memories about loved ones....they are turning such painful loss into something positive, healing and moving forward in a positive way and sharing that with others!!! Ok, I only gave 2 cents vs your 3. One upper!! ;) |
JB050 12.10.2019 17:45 |
Amidds— thank you very much! I could not agree with you more on a very deep level about all that you said!!! That was exactly the first thing I wanted to do when Thor and Lee are backups to offer my condolences to them (and everyone else) I can not even begin know what it was like to lose so many friends. Wasn’t it Phoebe... or maybe David E..., or Paul G ... who described the delayed mourning because of how many losses they were enduring. And so very well said about Thor and Lee sharing something positive, sharing a glimpse of their friendship and memories!!!! I am I th you trying to get back to reading. IHOW is easiest cus have it on kindle so keep reading it on the go,,, lunch breaks.... waiting rooms... grocery line? Haha Have a nice day all |
JB050 12.10.2019 17:46 |
And love the “one upper” expression. I think I just contributed another few cents. |
JB050 12.10.2019 17:46 |
And love the “one upper” expression. I think I just contributed another few cents. |
MyHumanZoo 13.10.2019 01:59 |
May I ask who Thor and Lee are? I’ve seen them mentioned here, and of course noticed the other thread with their names, but since that is so many pages it may take me weeks to get through it all, lol! It looks like maybe they were friends of Freddie? I’d love to hear their story! |
Thereuhaveit 13.10.2019 02:54 |
MHZ, it's well worth the time to scroll through that very long thread if you're interesting in learning more. There are plenty of long-time Queen/Mercury aficionados and their information is quite interesting. Lee and Thor were friends of FM, but it's best just to take some time and read through the information. |
JB050 13.10.2019 21:43 |
MHZ. Here s the link to the first thread. Even reading Thor’s intro will explain a Lot. link |
Amidds 14.10.2019 15:00 |
MHZ, (as if enough people haven't already answered....), Thor met Freddie in New York circa 1981. They became friends along with 3 other of Thor's friends including Lee. Thor found QZ a couple of years ago and came on to dispel some of the untruths about himself, Freddie and the other "New York daughters" as Freddie called the group of friends. I guess Lee was a pretty prolific picture taker back in the day and they have decided to put together a coffee table book revolving around their friendship. They did set up a GoFundMe page to help with publishing costs and you can hear about the book in their own words: link. I would suggest at least skimming the threads as Thor and Lee had answered many questions and told many wonderful stories about their time with Freddie. Darnit JB! You have to be up to 7 cents already!!! Gah, my own 4 cents looks so meager in comparison lol! |
JB050 14.10.2019 18:37 |
Amidds— haha. How do you do that so well? I love your expressive language.. you don’t need emoji’s. I’d say your last post gets you Five cents!!! I figure as long as I’m posting here today, I should add something from my book notes. Maybe a half a cent. :)) AIB—-Pg 101-02 kee kee dee performed at Hyde park concert. Freddie mentions in interview w Dave Clark that Elton was at the dinner after. (Mr. Chows?). John r manage at time. Was fun fact to see another connection that she was there too. That’s all I have for today. Will get back to IHOW. Have a nice day all! |
Amidds 15.10.2019 01:49 |
Lol JB, how do YOU do it? You so get me :). Put another dime in your change jar lol! I also do NOT remember that reference. Jeez, I feel like I can re-read these books a million times and still learn new stuff. That sounds either exciting or like dementia! |
JB050 15.10.2019 09:23 |
Haaa haaa!!!!! I’m right there with you. It’s like learning it .... all over again. :-))) I guess that means we won’t run out of things to read :)) |
JB050 15.10.2019 20:49 |
Just got word that AIB is ready for me at the library. Woo hoo. So, I have my focus for a few weeks. Amidds-you still have yours?? |
Amidds 15.10.2019 20:51 |
Nope, long gone but I took some real good notes this time. I even looked up copyright laws and found that you can copy 10% of a book for personal use. Mwahaha! :) |
JB050 16.10.2019 00:49 |
Hee hee! Nice going!!! |
MyHumanZoo 16.10.2019 15:14 |
Thank you all for the info....I didn’t realize that this was “the” Thor that Freddie knew, I have read about him in books and seen documentaries mentioning him but for some reason I didn’t put it together. I suppose I was thinking it was just a screen name. I will definitely go back through the threads and read the information! Looking forward to the book too, what a wonderful project! |
Amidds 18.10.2019 00:44 |
JB, let me know what hits you as you go through AIB. I’m kinda flipping through Treasures and Complete Works right now which don’t really have anything “new” so I can flip back to my notes on that one-you are really good at picking out little gems I seem to miss! |
JB050 18.10.2019 18:18 |
Amidds. Will do!!! :-)) |
JB050 19.10.2019 02:27 |
So this is probably very well known here on QZ. It’s just where I’ve picked back up in AIB. It’s talking about Queen being on tour two times in America in 1977. The part I found interesting and didn’t realize is that “two US tours in one year was unheard of” - 1st page of Chapter 10. 3 cents for tonight. :/)) |
Amidds 19.10.2019 19:24 |
Ok, I might earns some change here....I didn’t remember that entry (are we seeing a trend here lol), but I did look that up in my Complete Works book that I believe was recommended by Doughnut. It lists a Queen Lizzy N.A. Tour from Jan to Mar ‘77 and then News of the World in November and Dec ‘77. What’s even more interesting, is it lists Day at the Races tours in Europe and the UK and a We Are The Champions video shoot between the two Am tours. That takes some amazing stamina, maybe especially for their crew moving around tons on equipment!!!!! On a sillier note, was just looking at the very common pic of FM with Michael Jackson where FM is wearing his Wear West Hollywood shirt. I’ve seen this pic a million times but this is the first I caught myself wondering that origin of the shirt; is it a store name, club name, etc? Google search didn’t really turn up much except for about a dozen places where I could buy a reproduction.....anyone know? |
JB050 20.10.2019 03:40 |
Amidds. Very interesting. That is incredible don’t know how they do it. Those schedules are grueling. Let’s go I think that should be 77 cents x 2. :) ) Great question. Wish I could help. Will let the experts answer that one. |
CHEVYMAN 20.10.2019 18:53 |
Jb050,I had to look this up that shirt isn't a brand name i dont think it represents nightlife in West Hollywood I'm guessing.A very popular part from what I understand I'm a simple gal from Oklahoma forgive me. |
CHEVYMAN 20.10.2019 18:56 |
I think it represents nightlife in that specific part of West Hollywood. |
JB050 21.10.2019 02:06 |
Thanks & Good going Chevy! “West Hollywood is home to the famous Sunset Strip, with its nightlife and its rock-music history, and to the largest gay nightlife district in the Los Angeles area.” Not sure of WEAR part. Maybe like you said just a reference To the area. Will post f find more. |
JB050 21.10.2019 02:07 |
Actually now am honking might be a reference to something in that area. Looking. :)) |
JB050 21.10.2019 02:10 |
Ugh! “Thinking”. That is. But we could go with “honking” |
Amidds 21.10.2019 14:45 |
I have officially started my "Phoebe question list" and put the shirt questions along with the "sacking 3 people" from IHOW on it. Will do some research as well, or honking lol!! Should we call you Fredfie Jr? |
JB050 21.10.2019 16:11 |
That’s really great. Amidds SniffsU! Am sure we will keep adding to it. What a great opportunity that will be. That’s too funny, I’m not at Fredfie’s skill level. Typo’s seem to be my specialty—- A nice service add-on. Haha. I will add my AIB French Top charts question here too. |
JB050 21.10.2019 17:42 |
AIB, top pg 124, Queen’s “breakthrough” in France in the 70s with we will rock you and we are the champions” says “ it stayed at number one for twelve weeks, after which, because no record was allowed to be at number one for longer...”. Anyone have additional insight re: chart caps and country to country differences. Started to read about France’s charts. Will keep looking and post what I find. |
Amidds 21.10.2019 17:56 |
JB, this could be another one of those frustrating "no real answer" deals. I found this interesting article: link. Seems as if, during the late 70's, France didn't really have it's act together for music charting. The Hit Parade that the article mentions only shows sales for that year: link. This one also shows the 18 weeks for a Grease song: link. Can't help but wonder if all the changes during that time left no official charting. I wonder if you put the question in a new forum if you'd get an answer from someone who is much more in the know? I believe there are a couple official QP peeps hanging around. Wow, you had to go and come up with a good one! My brain is leaking out of my ears now..... |
JB050 22.10.2019 04:13 |
Hey there Amidds!!! You did some fancy footwork- quick researching!!! Super cool! Thanks!! I look forward to reading these. It is really interesting what I started to find about the French charts too. Thank you much! Another busy workweek... days are gonna get away. May be slightly delayed replies but I’m here. :)). More soon. Hopefully can get some reading in each day. |
JB050 22.10.2019 04:18 |
Amidds—By the way/- More cool, vivid descriptors from you! Brain leaking out of your ears. What a tall compliment for me & visual I got reminds me ofEscher Art. :—)) |
JB050 22.10.2019 04:26 |
A little off-topic but couldn’t resist. Escher ;@)) |
Amidds 23.10.2019 01:20 |
Oh JB, I do love Escher! Would be interesting to see his interpretation of brains spilling out of my ear, then back in, then out, etc! So I’m bouncing back and forth between the Minns book and Complete Works. CW is FULL of info and may take some time to get through. In glancing through the section of songs (noting who wrote it, album, year, chart placement and description), I came across Love Me Like There’s No Tomorrow and a bizarre entry; “...may indeed be about Valentin, for their relationship ended during the making of Bad Guy......Happily, Freddie’s love life would improve drastically after the release of the album, when he met hairstylist Jim Hutton.” Personally, I feel as if the Valentin rumors were definitively debunked so I’m very surprised to see it laid out like fact in this book. Also, I know I’ve seen pics of Jim Hutton sitting in the studio with FM while he was recording the album. Am I not remembering the timeline right? |
cmsdrums 23.10.2019 13:35 |
Amidds wrote: OAlso, I know I’ve seen pics of Jim Hutton sitting in the studio with FM while he was recording the album. Am I not remembering the timeline right?Jim is shown in the studio with Freddie in the 'Making on One Vision' video footage which was recorded not that long after, so it's possible. |
Amidds 23.10.2019 18:02 |
cmsdrums, thanks. I think that is the pic I was remembering. So CW could be right with the timing of Jim - will prob double ck Phoebe's book as something still seems a little off. Still kinda disturbing that CW would report rumor as fact with so much evidence out there. Hmm..... |
Thereuhaveit 24.10.2019 18:29 |
A change of direction and it's not in a book, but I heard this story yesterday on my local NPR station. It only mentions FM at the beginning as the most famous Zoroastrian, but it's interesting. link |
Thereuhaveit 24.10.2019 18:57 |
Amidds, I've been thinking about your last post and I've come to the conclusion that there's a desire by some to suggest, hint, hope--whatever-- that FM was actually bisexual and not gay. There's a strain of thought some promoting or hinting that he had intimate relations with a woman (women), even though it's clear that once he was comfortable with his sexuality (by the mid-to-late 70s), it was all about the guys. The man was gay: he admitted it, his closest allies all knew it, his most successful romantic relationship was with a man, but still, there's a weird thread that some promote, either directly or indirectly, that FM was bisexual. I think that's where the rumors come from, but I agree that it's disappointing and also, it's dishonest. It reeks of homophobia, latent or otherwise. |
Amidds 24.10.2019 19:10 |
TUHI, I will have to listen to that tonight! Will be interesting to see if it is from someone of the same faith. It reminded me of this passage in the Evans/Minns book: "to this day the Parsee followers hardly acknowledge the huge impact that Freddie Mercury had on the entertainment world. They knew and know him as Farokh Bulsara who in their eyes achieved perhaps very little." Of course, the authors are talking about the intolerance of the religion, how sad. Huh, so technically your topic IS in a book lol!! |
Thereuhaveit 24.10.2019 19:28 |
The interviews are with Zoroastrian young adults. Glad the topic is a-okay! |
Amidds 24.10.2019 23:39 |
TUHI, so weird, your second post wasn’t there when I posted. Somehow it showed up later, tech is great! I wanted to reply to your very well thought out post. I agree completely! While I wouldn’t argue it with someone because, really, everyone is entitled to their opinion, the point is Freddie said he was gay, many times. It doesn’t matter that Jim, Phoebe, Brian, Roger, Thor, Mary, etc said it, though that should be enough. The ONLY person that has the right to put a label on someone is themselves. And he did. Many times. It’s crazy that, in this day and age of being PC, anyone would think they have a right to assign any label to anyone, especially when they’ve already labeled themselves. I personally don’t like labels, don’t like to use them but I do respect others’ feelings on them and think everyone else should! That being said (and full disclosure, not sure who Georg Purvis is besides an author), I find it surprising that he either a) would include a rumor which, at best, is controversial and should say as much or b) blatantly included an opinion and implied it is fact. The author at one point even said that he was told by fans that he should get as much accurate info out here as possible. Hmmm, not sure that happened lol. Really, it’s not that big of a deal, I guess, but does make me wonder over the accuracy of the rest of the book. Now to finally listen to the NPR attachment you left...... |
Saint Jiub 30.10.2019 04:27 |
ttt |
runner_70 30.10.2019 13:34 |
xx |
runner_70 30.10.2019 13:40 |
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runner_70 30.10.2019 16:36 |
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JB050 30.10.2019 17:25 |
A few more interesting tidbits from AIB: Page 127 Crazy Little Thing Called Love was released as a single with We Will Rock You as B side. “It was released in Europe as a twelve-inch single ... the first time they had used such a format on the continent.” The clapping hands sticking up through the holes in the “catwalk” was a last minute addition, so they hadn’t arranged for extras, so members of Queen’s personal staff were recruited to lay on their backs under the stage. This is funny. It then says to make it more bearable they took with them a bottle of Jack D and there was much “giggling”. It says it was by sheer luck they managed to get the hand claps in the right places. Haha. There you have it. :)))). |
Amidds 30.10.2019 17:53 |
JB, you're alive and were able to find you're way through all the muck!! Congrats lol! I, too, found that interesting. I have never seen a 12" single. Not sure if that was a unique "gimmick" or I just have a bad memory lol. I don't remember - did they mention which of the Queen staff? I remember reading that and picturing Phoebe, Crystal, Ratty and others down there, miserable, cursing the band members. Too funny!! |
Thereuhaveit 30.10.2019 20:01 |
I've always wondered to whom those clapping hands belonged. I also wonder how often Queen employees had to pinch hit for videos in some capacity or another. They were available, already on the payroll, probably okay with being wrangled as extras. Though, I suppose it might depend upon work contracts, if they had them. I love that video! |
JB050 30.10.2019 22:04 |
Hi friends!! Amidds, thanks :)) I have not seen a 12” single either. Very interesting. Of course, I’m going to explore more. Amidds and TUHI - I haven’t come across names yet but that is a great question for more research. I came across yet another book to add to the not-enough hours-in-the-day-what-to-read-first-list. This one is not about Queen, but the author is a Queen fan and the name of the book is Now I’m Here, and each chapter is the name of a Queen song. It is “fiction” but, of course, seems to pull in elements of the author’s life. I am still reading it, and not necessarily recommending it but do like how he infuses Queen. It’s a good and an important story but it is not light, it’s very heavy some extremely hard things in it. It’s about two young men in Ohio who meet in High School in the 70s, have their first kiss on way to a Queen concert, and about their relationship over the years, their family experiences, HIV, etc. Good to “talk” to you both! |
JB050 30.10.2019 22:17 |
Queenpedia.com Relays the same story. Still looking Around to see if any names are mentioned. link Amidds, that would be a great question for your Phoebe question list! :-)) |
Amidds 30.10.2019 23:14 |
JB, saw those books you mentioned and was tempted to read just because of the titles. Don’t remember why I passed, might not have been in the mood for something heavy at the time. Let me know if you would end up recommending. I use Kindle thru Amazon and can have 10 books at a time. Seems as if I’m always at my max but always looking for something new! I will def add that question to my Phoebe list. Will be helping my daughter move next month and we hope to find time to finish planning that trip, buy tickets, etc. Havent seen anything yet about Phoebe doing his annual boat tour so I’m really keeping my fingers crossed!! |
Amidds 30.10.2019 23:38 |
Still reading Queen Complete Works. Came across something today I hadn’t seen before....apparently the working title for Brighton Rock on the SHA album was Happy Little Fuck. LOL! Don’t know why the name had to change ;) |
Katydyd5 30.10.2019 23:49 |
TUHI, I knew staff belonged to the clapping hands in Crazy Little Thing. I've always thought that must have been uncomfortable, but didn't realize they had liquid refreshment JB. LOL, that changes things I suppose. I do know they often recruited fan club members to be extras in the videos. I would have been first in line to volunteer for that! Amidds, have you read Ratty's book? He mentions all kinds of alternate names for the songs. They must have had a lot of fun! |
JB050 30.10.2019 23:53 |
Good find!! That’s really funny!! Wow a lot going on with your daughter’s move. Great to also have fun trips to plan. I’ll keepi my fingers crossed for you that he does the boat tour. I love that we are alike, you will get this... of course... I was skipping around in that book so once I finish it will have to go back for skipped pages. Haha. I will let you know. I have Amazon / Kindle too. Do you have something other than Prime that allows 10 books? If I have that option never knew I did. :-)) |
Thereuhaveit 30.10.2019 23:56 |
Thanks, JB for the link. I forget about the site, Queenpedia and should reference it, so thanks for the reminder. I'm currently listening to 'Jazz', so Crazy... |
JB050 30.10.2019 23:58 |
Hi Katy!!!!! Yay, the liquid refreshment is a twist in the story. Pun intended... not a great pun but good attempt. Haha Yes, is so cool how they always reached out to fans to be extras, I read something, you all are likely are aware of, that showed how that was a part of the fan club roots. That in the early days they even asked Fam club members to help stuff envelopes, etc. love it! |
JB050 31.10.2019 00:02 |
TUHI. Good idea. We should add it to our reading discussion :-)). So much to read so little time. Great we have a group of us so we get the insider scoop without having 5 books in our laps. Although, we probably all do anyway. :))) |
JB050 31.10.2019 00:10 |
I can’t remember if I asked this already—- I’m reading in AIB about Queen performing Imagine at the second of their three-nights at Wembley Arena on Dec 9 as a tribute to a John Lennon. I have found audio, but not the actual video. Anyone seen it or know if there is video of that? Thanks! |
Amidds 31.10.2019 00:32 |
Katy, I did read Peter’s book but I honestly don’t remember that one. Could be the age again ;). I’m starting to re read all the books I have WHILE going through Complete Works....might not be the best idea if I keep forgetting these things! JB, the Kindle I have is more than the one you get free with Prime. I hate paying to “rent” books but I read so much that it pays to do it that way instead of paying for separate books and not being able to get to the library often. Then again, I don’t pay for thePrime so it works out lol. Imagine- have never seen the video but have you seen the thread that popped up with the Runner/Day Dop battle? It’s a list of documentaries and I’ll bet it would be on there somewhere. I bookmarked it for later viewing so I don’t know what’s actually in there.... Oh and the 12”, doesn’t seem to have been that popular but we’re made primarily for promos and DJ’s I guess. Sounds like it was supposed to be a clearer sound and extended play. |
Thereuhaveit 31.10.2019 00:48 |
Amidds, Is the Complete Works worth a read? I assume it's a general history, with emphasis on the music? |
Amidds 31.10.2019 01:04 |
TUHI, it really depends on what you enjoy. It is extremely detailed on albums, videos, concerts, etc. for ALL members together and solo works. In that regards, it is an excellent resource. The author does cover, with each song, things that were happening at the time, back stories and his, um “theories” of what the song “may” (I previously mentioned one that referred to Barbara Valentin as FM’s girlfriend) be about. I haven’t come across too much new stuff but I haven’t had time to get too far. Really long way of saying I think I will really enjoy having it in my collection even though it seems it isn’t the most factual regarding the personal histories. |
JB050 31.10.2019 01:34 |
Amidds! I have not but will check out that thread! Thanks a lot! |
Amidds 31.10.2019 12:27 |
Oh geez. You’ll never find it now, here’s the link: link Anywhere else we can move this and get out of the line of fire? |
Amidds 01.11.2019 17:12 |
JB, out of curiosity, I did look up CLT in my book and there was absolutely no mention of the hand clapping. TUHI, I know you mentioned in on the other thread but, when I have a little more time, I will be interested to see what "your" blog mentions about the song meanings vs what's in Complete Works. I guess it's really all conjecture but it sure is interesting! |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 19:38 |
Amidds, while I do write a blog, it has zero to do with anything Queen related--couldn't be further from the subject! I have, on occasion, linked to music and just recently to 'It's a Kind of Magic', but mostly because I was using the phrase and adore the fan video with the graphic art. As an aside, I can't think of anyone in the Queen cast of characters, except for Jim Hutton, who would be at all interested in what I write about. :) The blog I've mentioned is 'Queen: An Exploded Diagram' and here's the link to her first post: link I think it would be interesting and super time-consuming to go through that fan-based blog of Queen's music to compare and contrast with something more official or academic--whether other blogs or something like Complete Works. But will I ever do that? Unlikely. |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 19:46 |
Funnily enough, I was just going to get back to 'Exploded Diagram' to finish up The Game, but just to give you an idea of the blogger's writing style (which I get a kick out of) here's a quote from her post about 'Sail Away Sweet Sister': "It’s a shame that boy bands didn’t really take their cues from Queen more. If every band had an incredible one, a quietly lovely one, a creepy but amazing at guitar one and a Roger Taylor one; the whole genre would’ve been improved immensely." LOL |
Amidds 01.11.2019 19:51 |
TUHI, now you have me curious! I get the impression you are a Hutton "fan"? I'm going to Ireland in a few months and have been awfully tempted to do a "drive by" his house. Then I remember I'm not quite that creepy, lol, and will be probably too busy! I do love the quote re Sail Away! Sounds like she has captured their essence. Though, not sure I would call Brian creepy, his intelligence could probably be a little off-putting. Especially to the "regular" folk like me :) |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 20:12 |
I have mixed feelings about Brian. Brilliant musician, apparently can be quite a gentleman, then sometimes a jerk. Then again, so are we all (except for those of us not 'gentlemen', lol). I love his interest in native habitats and wildscapes (not much left of either), so good for him. But some of his older lyrics would definitely not be considered NOT pc now. But then, that's true of plenty of 60s, 70s, 80s music, so maybe it's an unfair criticism. I mentioned that I'm finishing The Game as we write on QZ (all kinds of tabs open at the moment!). Here's another quote from 'Queen: Exploded': "Anyway, the point is that it is easy to look back and find these patterns, tell these stories. Decide that Brian is creepy and Freddie’s insensitive. Again, the problem with making art is that it will always be interpreted, and if it’s successful, re-interpreted and re-interpreted, again and again. It’s subjectivity. It’s story telling." Yes, I think Freddie Mercury was damn lucky to have found Jim Hutton--glad he recognized a good one when he met him. At least she's honest with what she's doing. |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 20:14 |
Blasted! That last sentence should have been after the 'Exploded' quote. Proofreading--it's a thing one should practice. |
MyHumanZoo 01.11.2019 20:55 |
I’m curious Tuhi, which of Brian’s lyrics would not be pc now? I’m doing a song search in my head but not coming up with anything yet, lol! I know Freddie had some, but haven’t heard it on Brian so I’m just wondering. On Brian in general, I find him fascinating and would love a conversation with him. I don’t really think he is a jerk to people until they become either rude or insufferable, he seems like such a gentleman. But I feel like I am a lot like him so maybe that’s why I don’t like admitting he has some foibles... I have spent a few weeks now going through the threads regarding Thor and Lee as you all suggested, what a tremendous amount of information! Very nice men and it’s lovely that they shared so much about Freddie. It’s a side we don’t get to see often, nice to know that he had such a supportive group around him! |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 22:10 |
MHZ, the one that comes to mind immediately is 'Tie Your Mother Down' (TYMD--for future reference :) ) I'll be the first to admit it's a great rocker, I bounce around to it when I listen--who could resist? But, check out the lyrics and imagine yourself the parents of a teen girl. Really, do you want that guy dating your daughter? What's the saying? With sons, you only have to worry about one prick; with daughters, you have to worry about many pricks. Hope that's not too graphic for QZ, though I've seen much worse. That said, it's just a song and until very recently, society was kind of okay with a certain level of control over women. It was my then teenage son (he's 24 now) who pointed out how problematic the Beatles "Run for you Life' is; check out those lyrics. Honestly, I'd given it much thought--generational differences, and thank goodness for that. I don't think we have to cringe or clutch pearls when something offends or is off-color, but being aware of the implications that words and lyrics have isn't a bad thing. The blog I've referred to points out other places where the writer gets the creeps with Brian's songs. I don't agree with all of her assessments, but I see her point. I've mostly been impressed when I've seen Brian interviewed, though I haven't seen too many recent ones. Certainly, in the early years after Freddie died and John retired, and Queen morphed to something different which none of them wanted, planned for, or expected, he and Roger were gracious with Freddie's memory and legacy. I laughed when you said "...a few weeks..."--yes, it takes that long. |
Amidds 01.11.2019 22:11 |
I have to admit I don’t know nearly as much about Brian as I do Freddie other than he is an amazing guitarist and always seems so well spoken and loveable when I see him in interviews. I especially love a recent one I saw where he was discussing how BoRhap was made. You could see his love of music and Freddie! Re: interpreting lyrics, I love Freddie’s quote “if you see it then it is there!” When asked about the meaning of his songs. So true! Every person will interpret something different and if they can relate to it in their own way, then the music has done its job! I’m re-reading David Minns book and he, like many others, says that Freddie did write his music based on personal experiences and relationships. How could he not? I do chuckle though when people spin their theories on who is behind some of his songs and then it turns out it was written by another member of Queen! TUHI, I can’t agree more that it’s nice to see such positive relationships surrounding FM especially when he seems to have had an equal number of negative ones! I guess we all do but, with his fame, it must have been so much harder to trust! can’t wait for their book! |
Thereuhaveit 01.11.2019 22:50 |
Amidds, I think it was MHZ who commented on the positive relationships FM had with the ny daughters. But, I also agree with that! It must have been nice for him to *just be* who he was, no judgement, no pretense. He couldn't do that everywhere. Funny story: when I was first reading about Freddie, I came across a reference to the New York Daughters (can't remember what I was reading) and I thought to myself: "Hmm, I don't know that band." Haha--I'm so lame! :) I often think of that quote of Freddie's when I'm listening to a song and it's a good reminder that folks who write poetry/lyrics aren't all that different from the rest of us--they feel pain, joy, disappointment, and all the rest of it. They just write pretty. :) I don't believe for a minute that any poet or lyricist just writes words--there's always meaning, and as you say, it must be a reflection of experience or belief. |
Amidds 02.11.2019 00:18 |
Oops, sorry I mixed you two up! It seems as if every time I start typing, someone needs something NOW and then I have to rush through my thoughts lol! You know, Lee is supposed to be quite the singer, maybe they can get a group called NY Daughters going!!! I laughed at that, sorry. In your defense, how were you to know????? I do see what you’re saying about Brian’s lyrics but I never really thought that much about it. I can see how’s it’s a little risqué but, considering his age at the time and the era, probably pretty tame!! I have read that writing lyrics can be most challenging (I could never do it!) so I try not to read much into them. I have never heard that saying about sons and daughters...loved it and will use it....being a parent of both, it is soooo true lol! |
MyHumanZoo 02.11.2019 18:04 |
I went back to read Tie Your Mother Down and I see what you mean now. I haven’t read the actually lyrics in years, and the words go so fast when I listen I think I’ve kind of bypassed the meaning. And, oddly enough, I heard an interview with Brian where someone asked what tying your mother down meant, and he downplayed it as just kids wanting their parents out of the way so they could party and have fun. No mention of the physical relationship implied in the actual lyrics so I think I just kind of applied what he said to the song. Which is interesting in another way, a person can morph their interpretation of something based on remarks from someone that make it more palatable to them....kind of scary but also explains why people think the way they do sometimes. When the written meaning can be so clear to others. It was such a different atmosphere back in the 70s and 80s, pc stuff really hadn’t happened and rockers seemed to take pride in writing songs about their conquests. Although if you look at some of the rap stuff nowadays their content is way worse, in my opinion. |
Amidds 02.11.2019 20:03 |
Out of curiosity, I did look this up in Complete Works. I'm not saying this book is the bible on Queen songs but the description goes in line with thoughts here: "Misinterpreted as a song about unseemly parental bedroom activities, the song is really about teenage lust and throwing caution to the wind, even if it means going against your parents' wishes." He goes on to explain that when he came up with the riff, he would sing the words Tie Your Mother Down as a joke and never expected to use the title as he thought it was crap but "Freddie said it meant something to him so he knows the answer, who am I to argue?". Of course, if this is true, now I want to know why that would mean something to Freddie lol????? |
Thereuhaveit 02.11.2019 20:04 |
MHZ, I agree that times and sensibilities were different and I don't get too fussed about the questionable lyrics. Thanks for checking them out though, it's nice to have civilized discussions about these things. |
Thereuhaveit 02.11.2019 20:16 |
Amidds, I didn't see your response, but if that story is true, it's certainly interesting. Freddie was hampered in developing his sexuality by his upbringing, so his comment might shed some light. From all I've read, Freddie was respectful of his parents, but not at all close and his sexuality never addressed openly. Imagine a teen/young adult reconciling that sort of attitude from parents. Perhaps, a little buried angst or even some anger? |
CHEVYMAN 02.11.2019 21:20 |
TUHI,I'm also a guy fan I just tend to get along better with the dudes.I have trust issues and Thor is a sweet heart he is very kind to all the ladies on the thread.The thread he and Lee have created is a wonderful reference in itself.I think Jim ,Thor and the rest of those guys were the closest ones in his life.He didnt have to pretend with them he could be himself.Parents make it so hard on their kids he was a product of his times.He had religious immigrant Indian parents that's when kids still cared what their parents thought of them.Im glad to know he had such loyal company and friends not everybody has that to lean on. |
CHEVYMAN 02.11.2019 21:23 |
I meant Freddie had important men fellas in his life with these men. |
Amidds 02.11.2019 22:50 |
TUHI, yes, in that context, I totally agree. In regards to the anger, I really think you hit the nail on the head with Freddie. When you read about his romantic relationships with men, they were often heated and sometimes violent. Even Jim’s book referenced a lot of lashing out on Freddie’s part as if he couldn’t quite reconcile it. I know he had wonderful friendships and many men state he flourished in the gay lifestyle and I believe that’s very true, but, when deep heavy emotions seemed to come into play, it’s almost as if he couldn’t come to terms with that and would do things to push those love interests away. He stated a lot that he was in love with being in love and often stated he was lonely and I think it’s because he couldn’t fully accept that part of himself because he couldn’t be openly happy that way...didn’t want to burden his parents and friends, didn’t want to negatively impact the band and band mates, didn’t want to lose the music life he loved so much. Does that make sense? Breaks my heart that he and so many other couldn’t just live their lives. |
Thereuhaveit 03.11.2019 02:46 |
Amidds, that all makes perfect sense. Freddie was fine with the sleeping around--that's easy: no commitments, just temporary fun and superficial affections. And in reality, he probably needed that experience and those years to a certain extent. But when he really liked someone, he either picked a jerk, or was a jerk himself--deep emotional bonds were just too scary. I think he mistook infatuation and crushes for love, and that it took him toward the end of his 30s before he gained some understanding (and this will sound corny) what true and deep affection/love requires. In essence: FM was a late bloomer. I get the impression that by the Munich years he was tired of being a slutty kid, had matured, but with his star lifestyle and all that emotional and psychological baggage that he'd carried for years, he was lost. Along comes Jim Hutton: comfortable in his own skin, an emotionally a mature man, and while I've seen him described as simple, what I believe is that he was reserved, not a blabber mouth, and had very good native intelligence. Hutton addresses some of this very discussion in his book, but you're right that it is very sad that these guys couldn't be open, couldn't live as who they were. Thank goodness that's changed--no everywhere--but in many places. |
Amidds 04.11.2019 19:33 |
TUHI, I really think Jim was the perfect match for Freddie. He was kind, had patience, didn't take things too seriously, seemed friendly. He seemed to be able to handle whatever was thrown at him calmly which I think was exactly what Freddie needed. He may have needed some drama to help with his creativity, but he needed someone in his personal life (other than friends, of course) that would just have his back and be there for him. Of course, that's all conjecture but, I feel pretty safe saying that as that info came mostly from Phoebe :) JB, don't know if you fell into the rabbit hole here BUT, I think I came across another of the 3 people Freddie had fired in mid-80's per our previous discussion. Of course, I can't think of his name now but it was his driver from '78-85 (?), he had lost his license due to drunk driving and ghosting Freddie. Now I just have to come up with #3 lol! |
JB050 05.11.2019 00:00 |
Hi Amidds!! Haha! Nope, escaped the rabbit hole. :)) I’m here! Just a little slower than usual. :)) I just got auto renewal on AIB so will have it a little longer. Ya!! I need to stop reading everything else. Haha. Very cool!! Top notch investigating!! But now that you say that he let another driver go too, didn’t he? But that was later. Gordon, I think? Was one mentioned in Jim’s book. Am sure you’ll recall... Someone who knew the driver approached Jim and knew a lot of personal details. I’m trying to think who else that could be. Will let u know if think of it or come across anything! |
Amidds 05.11.2019 00:21 |
JB, lucky you! Every now and then I check to see if I can buy AIB for a reasonable price but no luck so far. I’m really surprised they haven’t re-released that one as it is so informative! I actually don’t recall the other driver, hmmm, a new mystery. The one I was referring to was Peter Jones and I think his last one was Terry or Terri. I thought Gordon was his doctor. Gah, I’m so bad at names if I don’t have a face to go with it! I just finished the Minns book and was gonna move on to Jim’s book for my next re-read so I’ll try to keep that one in mind! |
JB050 05.11.2019 03:00 |
Hi Amidds!!! I had to look cus when you said Dr. that sounded right tooo... and the verdict is.... we both remembered correctly. :-/)). Here is from Mercury and Me: Dr Gordon Atkinson with his friend Roger, chauffeurs Graham Hamilton and Gordon, I’m looking for the passage where Jim’s book describes the “incident” |
JB050 05.11.2019 03:06 |
From Mercury and Me: Relations cooled between Freddie and Gordon because Gordon couldn’t hold his tongue. Freddie expected total loyalty and discretion from those around him. When Graham or Gordon drove Freddie, they’d drop the names of the other VIPs they had had in the back of their car. Freddie believed that they must also talk freely to their other passengers about him. The final straw came when I went out for a drink one night to Champions, a gay pub in Notting Hill Gate. Gordon was in the pub and came over to say hello, introducing me to a young friend drinking with him. A little later I left and walked to the nearby Gate Club, a gay club. |
JB050 05.11.2019 03:20 |
From Mercury and Me Continued.... After I’d been there about half an hour, the young man Gordon had introduced me to arrived and made a beeline for me. ‘I know everything about you,’ he said. ‘I know you’re Freddie Mercury’s boyfriend.’ He went on to tell me bits and pieces of gossip he’d learnt from Gordon. I was speechless. He was a total stranger and he knew some very private things about us. ‘Who told you all this?’ I asked, though the answer was obvious. I left the club at once and got home about midnight. Freddie was wide awake in bed. ‘You look livid. What’s wrong?’ he asked. I told him what had happened and he shook his head. ‘Right,’ he said. And we didn’t see much of Graham and Gordon after that.“ |
JB050 05.11.2019 03:22 |
I could be wrong, please don’t quote me on this ... I swear I saw something online that they may be updating AIB. Will be great if they re-release. Good night!! |
JB050 05.11.2019 03:45 |
Amidds. I was just catching up and saw the link you posted for me.... thank you very much!!! Can’t wait to dig in. Also, which book did you look up CrazyLittleThing in? I was in AIB. (JB, out of curiosity, I did look up CLT in my book and there was absolutely no mention of the hand clapping.) |
Amidds 05.11.2019 15:33 |
JB, I vaguely remember that story now. I'll look that up to see if it will fit with the 3 fired people we discussed. Of course, then it would be 4 people total but it would make a lot of sense.... Would be exciting if AIB was re-released. I did a search after I read your post and saw that some people are selling it for right around $50 instead of $300 so it would make sense!!! Now, will I shell out the $50 or be patient? Hmmm...... How dare you not read my mind to know which book I was referring to! Geez!! Lol, I was referring to Complete Works which I have been mentioning a lot lately. I would recommend it for the researcher in you (and me!). It's a great reference though the author does include some debunked rumors as facts in regards to the songs and, obviously as in the case of CLT, missed an important part of the story. That's just my opinion though. |
MyHumanZoo 05.11.2019 16:18 |
So I am halfway through As It Began and really enjoying it. I must say, it’s nice to read a book where it’s all about the band happenings and not about the personal lives/relationships with significant others. It feels a lot more factual that way. And thanks to all about the mention of the Complete Works, I have downloaded that on my Kindle and it is next in the queue! I really enjoy the in-depth music info so that one will be good for me, I’m sure. Another topic, but I recently downloaded Elton John’s book, probably more because of the mentions of Freddie than anything. I’ve read a few chapters and I’m not finding it super interesting so far. I am still in his pre-popularity portion of life. Why do I have 2 books going at once, you ask? (Ok, you probably don’t care, lol!). I was reading outside and didn’t want my hands to be sweaty or greasy to mar the cover of my AIB book. Queen-related materials get white glove treatment! ; ) |
JB050 05.11.2019 18:55 |
Amidds!! That is so funny!!! I do know you.... I was so close to assuming YCE. I do have it ... just haven’t gotten to dig in very far yet... so am really living your research in it. MHZ-// I loved your post—- and you are so not alone. I have a pile of books (haha) to decide what to pick up. And, like Amidds, I need to re-read too. I agree it is nice to read AIB band details. It’s a study. Such a nice historical window. Will be interested in your Elton book recap. Great your reading that too. Amidds- I’m with you fingers crossed for re-release. So interesting prices coming down now from re-sellers. |
Amidds 05.11.2019 19:18 |
Gah JB! Brain bleed - YCE??? Don't confuse me girl...it takes so little :( MHZ, you are gonna love Complete Works if you liked AIB! Like I said, there's a lot there! After the first few chapters, I just started jumping around to hit specific songs, albums or videos as people here on QZ mentioned them or I heard a certain song, etc. I'm really enjoying it that way! And shame on you for thinking we wouldn't care! Lol, WE totally get it!!! I have 3 going now too for much the same reason! And, yes please, let us know if you enjoy the EJ book. I almost picked it up the other day primarily for the John Reid/Freddie connection as well and then thought that I really don't need another book waiting behind the 10 in my queue! Of course, if it comes highly recommended, that's a different story :))) |
JB050 05.11.2019 22:40 |
Haaaaaahaaaaaaa. CYE....No idea it was not a test.... this time haha!!!. :/-)))) Complete Works. |
Katydyd5 06.11.2019 00:19 |
MHZ, I came close to getting the Elton John book. I'd like to hear what you think as you work your way through it. |
MyHumanZoo 06.11.2019 02:31 |
I’m glad to not be the only one to read multiple books at a time! I have been through many Queen/Freddie books and yet I am still finding more. And of course I must re-read some of them. I have read through a few at least twice already. With each that I read and re-read I seem to find more details and change my opinions on things. Kind of amazing! The Complete Works will be interesting for me, like you Amidds I will want to jump around but I also have a compulsive need to read straight from cover to cover without skipping any detail. We’ll see what wins out on this one! I got through more of Elton’s book today, I am about 1/3 into it. My impression so far is that there is a lot of detail in there I have no interest in knowing. This first part is very specific on the musicians and music when he got into the business in the late sixties. Most are (I’m assuming) British and possibly lesser known, or maybe just not known to me as I’m from the US. I recognized some names but most meant nothing to me. I’m to the point now where he has hit fame, and he does a ton of name dropping. Which is fine, but a lot of that is without specifics. So to me it feels a little bit mean to do to those involved. Mostly talking about doing drugs with them, and that sort of thing. I’m divided on how I feel about it all, on one hand it is interesting to hear what all went on (inquiring minds want to know!) but it also feels like a betrayal to the others. We’ll see if it improves as I go. |
Katydyd5 06.11.2019 03:08 |
Thanks for the Elton comments MHZ. The reason I was tempted to get his book was, of course, any stories or info he had about Freddie. I may be able to pass this one up. |
JB050 06.11.2019 13:47 |
Amidds. Your so funny. Not another brain bleed caused by typo syndrome. Haha. Have a good day all. MHZ- will be fun to discuss AIB as we work our way thru it. Hi Katy!! Have a good day all! |
MyHumanZoo 06.11.2019 17:03 |
Katy, so far there has just be about 1 paragraph mentioning Freddie, I can summarize it as John Reid sharing BoRap with Elton before it came out and Elton thought it was crazy and way too long and he thought it would bomb. Then he said he became great friends with Freddie, named him Melina, and had lots of laughs with him and Tony King. So pretty much everything we already knew. The one thing I didn’t like was that he said Freddie made fun of his Queen band mates, calling Brian “Mrs. May” and that the clogs she wore on stage were ridiculous...or something along those lines. I guess I’m not naive enough to think that they all didn’t have moments where they said stuff about each other, it’s just not something I think was nice or productive to put in a book. It’s that kind of thing throughout his book that puts me off. I don’t need to hear just nice stuff, but the negative stuff he puts in just seems kind of catty, rather than helping flesh out his story, if you know what I mean. I’ll let you know if I come across more Freddie stuff. On another note, I see that Spike Edney is working on a book and hoping for it to come out in the next year. For those not aware Spike has played the piano with Queen for maybe 30 or so years, taking over when Freddie decided not to play at concerts and just to run around and sing. I’m sure he has tons of great stories! Another one to add to my reading list! |
Amidds 06.11.2019 18:15 |
MHZ, thanks for the update. I prob will pass as well. Though another thing I was interested in was the differences b/t John Reid in his life with Queen vs. his life with EJ. I understand it was an entirely different type of relationship but, I have heard hints of him being kind of an arse to EJ. Let me know if its worth it for that. Wow, now I sound like the catty one :). What other Queen books have you read? I'm on a re-read quest and am currently on Somebody to Love. I know it's not a highly rated one by QZ'ers but I found the AIDS info to be spot on and informative and mostly factual except when they quote Lesley Ann Jones. Anyone else read that? I heard that too about Spike Edney. This could be a good year for books. Especially if Thor and Lee can get theirs out! (catty and impatient? yes, apparently lol) JB, thank goodness, I was really scratching my head for a few minutes trying to figure out which book you were referencing and wondering why I didn't hear about it. haha!! |
JB050 07.11.2019 13:36 |
Too funny. Wouldn’t it be crazy if a book came out with that accidental abbreviation. Have a nice day all I do need to get back and catch up. :-)) |
MyHumanZoo 07.11.2019 15:29 |
Amidds, I would say there’s a decent amount of info on John Reid, it may be worth it for that. First because he and EJ were in a relationship and later as just his manager. And yes, your description of how Reid acted seems accurate! LOL! I am more into his fame years now and I guess I had heard what a diva EJ was and about some of his outfits and antics but I didn’t know the half of it all. Queen books I have read (will qualify that I am away from home at the moment so only relying on failing memory and the list on my Kindle!). Both of Freestone’s books, Mercury and Me (2x), Somebody to Love (2x), Freddie Mercury The Biography, Queen The Definitive Biography, Freddie Mercury (David Bret), This Was the Real Life, Mercury (Leslie Ann Jones), Queen The Early Years, Queen Unseen, Brian May The Definitive Biography, also the David Minns Book, I don’t think I listed that one. I did enjoy Somebody to Love a lot for the info on AIDS, I lived through that time but sure didn’t know about all that happened and how it may have started. I need to read And the Band Played On at some point. As far as being catty, I don’t necessarily have a problem with that at all! Just in the context of EJ’s book there were a lot of things sort of tossed in that didn’t add to the story, weren’t fully described, but just randomly made someone else look bad. A few of those would have been fine with me, but it seemed kind of overdone and without real purpose in the book. Usually I enjoy a sideways comment as much as anyone else! : D |
Amidds 07.11.2019 21:54 |
MHZ, ok, it's back on my list! Might wait until its on sale since I really only care the the Freddie connection lol! That is some reading list!!! I have read about 1/2 of those, will look up the others to see what they're about - any you would recommend?? (I have the Freestone books, Mercury and Me, Somebody to Love and the Minns book. Not really interested in the Leslie Ann Jones or Brian May-sorry!). I get what you mean about the EJ book. Cattiness doesn't bother me, heck, it takes a lot to get me upset or irritated but it is very frustrating when something is just thrown in, half-arsed like someone didn't care enough to complete a thought! That and the lack of proof-reading are the two things that will get me to put down a book and not finish it lol! |
Amidds 08.11.2019 01:19 |
May not be something new to everyone but I have only seen pieces of this, nice to see most of it together. link Making of Under Pressure is interesting but, also, at the very end, they start to discuss the emotional period in Munich we’ve discussed before. Of course the damn thing ends in the middle of that discussion lol! |
MyHumanZoo 08.11.2019 16:04 |
I forgot to add that I’ve read Queen in 3D by Brian, and his book on the Red Special, as well as the Queen 40th Anniversary ebook. Yes, I am a May-niac, lol! So much so that I am now teaching myself to play guitar at the ripe old age of 55. It is no bed of roses, no pleasure cruise doing it this late in life! Ha! I think I am dooming myself to arthritis in my fingers. I really enjoyed the ebook, that was cool because of the pictures and music attached with it. I also liked The Early Years a lot, but I have always liked to hear more on the musical influence and early development. Which, now that I write this, I realize was my criticism of Elton’s book! I suppose it all depends on the interest in the subject itself. When I get home I’ll look through my books and see if I have more specific reading recommendations. |
Amidds 08.11.2019 17:05 |
Good for you MHZ! I hear you - I often think of playing the piano again so I can play some Queen songs. Of course, I would have to buy a piano and have a place to put it so, not gonna work. At least a guitar doesn't take up so much space! Good luck with that! Have you read or heard of Queen: The Complete Illustrated Lyrics? I haven't read it but saw it on YouTube and seems it might be right up your alley!! |
MyHumanZoo 10.11.2019 16:34 |
I have heard of that one too, Amidds, but haven’t looked into it too closely. I’ll have to give it a look. Back at home now and I realized that I also read the recently updated Freddie In His Own Words, and I think that one may be my favorite. It isn’t about Queen inclusively, but I really enjoyed the feeling of hearing Freddie’s words and opinions on things. It’s so well done, considering the difficulty of fitting parts of different interviews over many years into coherent chapters. It felt the most real of what I’ve read. |
doughnut 11.11.2019 15:09 |
Hi all I just wanted to say that I have read Elton John's book and I really really enjoyed it. It came across very down to earth, honest and humble but happily admits to his highly strung nature. Perhaps it's his english sense of humour that gets lots with you guys in the UK (I could be wrong). Regarding name dropping, I read it that he is a famous guy and writing about his life so he is bound to mention people. I didn't see this as a negative at all. He does mention Freddie and he loved Freddie very much, for this reason he is unable to watch Bho Rhap. He said it would be to upsetting. Freddie was a man with a wicked sense of humour and is known for taking the mickey out of people. Again Elton describing the scene in a club where he talks about Mr May wearing clogs wasn't nasty just freddie being freddie. TBH those clogs are awful. Anyway I finished the book having a lot of respect for Elton and what he went through as a child . Amidds it was John Reid who introduced him to cocaine. He turned up at the studio one day when John was doing it and so he tried it and was hooked from that moment. His and John's relationship was instigated by Elton who was madly in love with John but sadly much like Freddie, John couldn't keep it in his pants. It was when John hit Elton that the relationship ended but they remained friends and John remained his manager until years later when it was discovered that John has been stealing Eltons money. Totally agree with below: Along comes Jim Hutton: comfortable in his own skin, an emotionally a mature man, and while I've seen him described as simple, what I believe is that he was reserved, not a blabber mouth, and had very good native intelligence. Hutton addresses some of this very discussion in his book, but you're right that it is very sad that these guys couldn't be open, couldn't live as who they were. Thank goodness that's changed--no everywhere--but in many places. It was Thor who referred to Jim as 'simple'. I felt that a little harsh . It understand that he was a little reserved which is what Freddie like about him. I have the illustrated lyrics and I love it. |
doughnut 11.11.2019 15:10 |
meant you guys in the US not the UK lol |
doughnut 11.11.2019 15:13 |
oh and ignore the bad bad spelling etc lol |
Amidds 11.11.2019 19:10 |
Doughnut, very interesting take on the EJ book. Of course, you probably already answered most of my questions so I might be able to save a couple $$ lol! I am really enjoying the Complete Works you recommended, even though it's gonna be a while until I get through it all - seems like it will be my #1 reference so.....gonna follow your opinion on Illustrated Lyrics, I think, and move that to the top! Regarding the Thor and Jim, I wonder if Thor meant simple as in not high maintenance? Didn't require money, lavish parties, etc to keep him entertained/interested? Cause that's kinda the impression I have of him. Man with simple needs. I'm sure it will come up again when Thor gets back on QZ. MHZ, I do love IHOW! Read that twice not too long ago so as I am re-reading Somebody to Love, I can clearly point out any quotes that came from IHOW and it's nice to hear it again!! I agree with the organization. At first I was disappointed with the lack of sourcing but, on another thread, one of the contributors mentioned how difficult and extensive it would be so I get the grouping better. |
Thereuhaveit 11.11.2019 23:58 |
Amidds, you might be correct about how the term "simple" was used to describe Jim Hutton, though I initially read it differently. It's hard to say, of course--in this sort of discussion arena, it's easy to misconstrue meaning. I guess at some point, I'll need to read IHOW, folks seem to like it, lack of sourcing notwithstanding. |
Amidds 12.11.2019 00:13 |
TUHI, could’ve been lack remembering on my part as well. I intend to re-read the threads as well to refresh my memory. When I originally found QZ, I read through as fast as I could to catch up and probably missed a lot. I think you will enjoy IHOW. While we have all heard a lot of his quotes in various places, there were a quite a few I hadn’t heard or hadn’t heard in its entirety which made them more interesting! I actually got mine free through Kindle so, if you have that, check it out through Amazon. |
Thereuhaveit 12.11.2019 00:38 |
I'll check it out on Kindle--thanks for that, Amidds. I'm currently reading a book on class differences in the US; fairly depressing, not gonna lie, so maybe something joyful and Freddie-like is just the right antidote. |
Amidds 13.11.2019 00:17 |
Katydyd, Complete Works doesn’t confirm the story you mentioned. Actually, it doesn’t say much just that two versions were recorded. One on 9/1/87 featuring mostly improvised lyrics since the words hadn’t yet been written. The other on 11/9 which is a cappella. Furthermore, an instrumental version was created for The Solo Collection. I will make a note of this though and keep an eye out as I do my reading! Just finishing up re-reading Somebody to Love. I know some people don’t like this book but I feel as if the authors tried to present some good info and, concerning some controversial subjects, tried to present both sides or point out if it was just conjecture. I did get the feeling in this read through, ever, that Jim Beach maybe shouldn’t have been trusted as much as he was. Does anyone else get that feeling or know more about him? I could have gotten the wrong impression and don’t want to stir something up but it’s hard to find info about him..... |
Thereuhaveit 13.11.2019 00:43 |
Beach keeps a low profile and it seems like the band trusted/trusts him. Certainly, Freddie did, it seems. He's certainly made business decisions which have enriched the lot of them, but I don't care much for him. (Not that it matters what I think!) I remember seeing him interviewed in a clip from one of the documentaries, ('The Untold Story' or 'The Great Pretender'?), and he's talking about the full orchestra recording and release of 'Barcelona' and he says, several times, how *this version* is the version Freddie would have made "if he'd had the balls." Really? If Freddie had had the balls? You mean the Rock God who reached out to the Opera Goddess and magic ensued? That guy doesn't have a pair? It just seemed like a weird a-hole statement and I was quite taken aback. That comment, plus the problems with how FM was portrayed in the movie, give me pause about Beach. 'Maylor' get lots of blame for the movie issues, but I'm not sure the undercutting of FM was, in fact, their doing. I haven't read "Somebody to Love"--what is its reputation? |
Amidds 13.11.2019 01:07 |
TUHI, very interesting. I remember some veiled references in various books, vids, etc that Beach, while loyal to Queen, (he does make money off of them) may do whatever he must to keep the cash flowing. In this particular book, I was mostly reminded of him maybe influencing Freddie over his will and his final statement to the press right before he passed. No smoking gun kind of thing, just that Freddie made decisions after talking to Beach that he may not have made otherwise. Saying Freddie didn’t have balls makes me think the guy is kind of a loser, geez. Somebody to Love isn’t one of those books people here blacklist, some just say that the authors include a lot of myths, lies about Freddie. It does include a lot of quotes from a lot of sources including reliable ones like Freestones books but then includes debunked quotes/stories from the Leslie Ann Jones book. I would actually recommend because overall it seems to be very consistent with other reliable sources. |
Amidds 13.11.2019 01:09 |
Katydyd, think I found something for you from This is the Real Life by Minns/Evans. Going to attempt to attach a screen shot. Fingers crossed..... |
Katydyd5 13.11.2019 03:09 |
Amidds, that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bless you! I have been looking for that for a couple of weeks now and even checked in that book. I'm truly grateful to you because I was beginning to think I imagined it. You are the best. |
Amidds 13.11.2019 13:59 |
Katydyd, glad I could help!!! That drives me nutty too! I believe I also saw the quote in IHOW but I stopped looking when I found that reference. I love Freddie's reaction, especially because he was such a perfectionist :) |
JB050 13.11.2019 18:23 |
I’m here. Busy week on this end. I Need to do some catch up reading here and in AIB. Looking forward to it. Looks like very interesting additions!!! |
JB050 17.11.2019 13:22 |
Amidds! So glad for your Somebody to Love book perspective. Thank you!!! It was one of my first, I was drawn in to the details of Freddie’s younger years and Zanzibar descriptions. Partly because I tend to skip around anyway, partly because as I got to the “later years” it seemed a lot was taken from other things I’d read, and partly because of the online feedback, I stopped reading it. I absolutely love your re-read campaign! You have inspired me to go back to that one.... after I finish AIB and IHOW, that is. Haha. Re: the Jim Beach conversation, very interesting!!!!. I agree, from a business perspective, all I’ve seen and read, does show him as very trusted, good decision maker, etc. The interesting thing is that David Minns and Jim Hutton both expressed hurtful feelings accounting specific experiences. Jim H said in his book that he didn’t think Jim understood his and Freddie’s relationship. I know we are fascinated fact checkers and I love these discussions. It always dawns on me that they are real people and the complexities of relationships and business dealings, so I tend to try to reserve too many opinions. Haha but can’t help but feel for people too. Make any sense at all? :)). |
MyHumanZoo 19.11.2019 19:12 |
You know, on the Jim Beach discussion I have mixed feelings about him. I feel like there are a few things that seem odd about what he has said and done. But ultimately, Freddie trusted him enough to carry out his wishes. We’ll never know what Freddie asked him to do specifically, and whether Beach is just doing what he was asked or if he is taking his own license on things. Also, Queen has had him on board for so long now I can’t imagine he’s not a good guy worthy of their trust. And yet....his job is to make them all money, and that can skew one’s views and actions. So who knows?! |
CHEVYMAN 19.11.2019 20:44 |
Thereyouhaveit, I agree about Jim beach I think he has been neutered.What the movie portrayed was shameful hopefully Thor and Lee's book will give us a fresh look at another side of Freddie we didnt get to see.All I'm gonna say . |
Amidds 22.11.2019 15:21 |
Finally back from Florida and caught up on work! Had to laugh JB as I re-read Hutton's book and Freestone's What He Left Behind on the plane and then saw what you said about Jim Beach. What a coincidence! I agree with what you all have said...mixed feelings. Minns had mentioned Beach breaking up with him on Freddie's behalf and, after Freddie's death, telling him about South America "sex expolits". NOT lawyer behavior. In What He Left Behind, Phoebe again talks about the boys all getting kicked out of Garden Lodge and defends Mary saying that the reason they had to leave was so they didn't have some sort of renter's rights. Beach had sat them all down the day after Freddie's death and didn't explain that to them at the reading of the will? Left it to Mary who apparently found it too difficult to discuss and didn't tell them until much later. When you add Hutton's statement that he didn't feel as if Beach understood their relationship, it makes you wonder who he was really working for. This is all just conjecture and researching on my part, I don't mean to insult the man. Like you JB, these are real people.... |
Thereuhaveit 22.11.2019 23:55 |
Jim Beach has acted in Queen's (and Freddie's) best financial and legal interests, as any good attorney does. It's been a successful financial strategy for Queen--and for Beach. I suspect his actions haven't always been in accordance with "good guy" behavior, but it's what he was and is paid for. In that sense, he's a good attorney for his clients. I've always thought the story about Beach delivering the break up news from Freddie to Minns a bit odd and beneath behavior of grown-up people, but Freddie wasn't at his most mature phase at that point, so who knows? Maybe Beach needed to get Freddie back on track--you know, to create more songs so Queen could make more money and Freddie didn't like confrontation. Or, maybe the story isn't true at all. |
JB050 23.11.2019 15:22 |
Hi all I thought this might be a good addition to our reading discussion: link It’s dated Nov 19. And titled FEATURESFreddie Mercury Singles: 13 Songs That Defined The Singer’s Solo Career. It has text and video. |
JB050 23.11.2019 15:35 |
Amidds! Welcome back!! Missed you, although I’ve been a bit scarce lately. Hope you had a great time in FL!! How cool And perfect that you got so much reading time in on the plane!! Anyone ask what you were reading? That’s so cool that you read what I mentioned at almost same time. :/) It’s interesting TUHI because, I believe it was David and/or Jim who said Freddie did enlist others to break tough news. Like Mary asking Jim to leave GL, essentially breaking up with him, when he and a Freddie were arguing. Amidds did you also re-read What David wrote about him making the connection for them to get soundtrack work, but never feeling he got the credit. I have wondered about that too. That was part of my curiosity about him not being mentioned in AIB, not from Relationship standpoint, but business. Although I do really understand keeping the line. |
Amidds 23.11.2019 22:20 |
Hmmm, TUHI, I see your point with Beach doing what he was told and I believe you are right with doing what he needed to do to keep Freddie on track but, JB is correct, lots of confirmation that he had others intervene in break-ups. I wasn’t trying to bash Beach, just pointing out similarities in my reading. Whether it’s all true or not, we may never know and if its true, he got his direction from someone, right? I think what I found most interesting is it really brought Phoebe to Mary’s defense which you don’t see to much of actually. JB, worked very hard in Florida even though I knew better, too old to be helping move people :( No one asked me what I was reading but I did sit next to a very loquacious woman on my return trip and I really just wanted to tell her that she was disturbing my Freddie time lol! It was nice to have a big block of time to re-read and connect some dots! Funny that you mention the connection on the soundtrack work because that also struck me this time as well! Were you sitting close reading over my shoulder?!?!? Haha. Your link looks super interesting-will put that next on my list! |
Thereuhaveit 23.11.2019 23:16 |
Amidds, you're spot on about FM enlisting the help of others when some, uh, dirty break up work was needed. I think Freddie Mercury was a genius and by all accounts a sweet, good guy, but that avoiding of responsibility when he was pissed or disappointed at someone baffles me. I guess I just can't see how he could allow others (you're right about that) to break up with someone (Minns) he spent three years with. I guess I can understand that he was still young (29, 30?), but when in '90, when he and Jim had the falling out and he, or his appointee, send Joe to tell Jim to move. Honestly, I just find that so weird. |
Amidds 24.11.2019 00:45 |
TUHI, I have seen many references where people described FM as not liking conflict and avoiding it as much as possible. Well, except when he would fight with boyfriends as a type of inspiration for his music, lol. I can’t help but wonder if it wasn’t part that and part being hard for him to let go as he also had a tendency to try to keep his exes around him like Joe and Mary. He did tell Minns at one point that he had enough love for him and Joe at the same time and Minns rejected that notion. Yea, I find it weird too. |
JB050 27.11.2019 17:47 |
Hi fellow researchers :-)). AIZb is back to the library. I’ll be reviewing any notes. Will be keeping my eye out if anyone hears of a re-release. :-)) So now time to get back to IHOW, then joking in Amidds re-read campaign. I’ll pose a question: What is something that you have read or learned or have known about Freddie/Queen that stands out to you or maybe even changes your perspective. Hope everyone is having a nice day!!! |
Amidds 27.11.2019 18:27 |
JB, first of all, my re-reading campaign is NOT a joke, how dare you :). 2nd, are you trying to take over Fredfie's job lol? Good question but very broad so I'll answer this way: have always loved Queen and thought FM has the Best. Voice. Ever. I have never been the type to research famous people or care what they were up to but read anything that came up readily about this band over the years. What got me hooked was watching BoRhap. I'm sure you all know that I don't like the way they portrayed him (sorry!). The movie lead me to do research to see if I my memory/interpretation of FM was way off. It wasn't and I love knowing so much more about FM, Queen and their music!! |
JB050 27.11.2019 19:53 |
Amidds!! Hahahaaaa! I guess I am, but I specialize in typo’s. Fredfie is way advanced. :-)))) I’m pretty sure I was going for “joining”. Well- these are the skills we need for our “only available after Freddie conversation” proofreading business right. Hahaha. Great answer!!!!!!! |
Amidds 27.11.2019 21:16 |
That's OK JB, we'll be all set for business when Fredfie finds us a location and gets that advertising going!! btw, just have to mention that I thought my dream on going to Montreux was blown out of the water as flight prices were $1000+!!! Well, we decided to fly in/out of Paris for less than 1/2 the price and will be able to take the train to/from Montreux. So, the two of us that are left, lol, are now booked! Plus we get extra time in Paris! I am so relieved and excited!! |
JB050 28.11.2019 06:28 |
Ohhhh Amidds!!! Great problem solving. Train trip sounds incredible. Should be beautiful. Even better. $1,000 for flight. Ouch. I’m really excited for you too!! |
Amidds 29.11.2019 00:21 |
Thanks JB! Hope I knew my fellow QZers would understand my temporary angst! Here’s a funny Thanksgiving story for you all....one I hadn’t heard before in relation to the infamous Freddie vs Sid Vicious story. Too lazy to retype so hopefully the attachment turns out well. |
JB050 01.12.2019 02:50 |
Amidds. Haha. Who was asking not to do again. Which book? Thank you.. that was good!! |
MyHumanZoo 01.12.2019 20:39 |
That’s a great plan for a Montreux trip Amidds! I wish I had known about Montreux and the Freddie connection a few years back, I used to work for a company in Paris and was over there nearly every 2 weeks, I easily could have hopped up there for a visit. Kicking myself now! My reading schedule has been severely slowed down by the holidays, still halfway through AIB and holding.... |
Amidds 03.12.2019 02:47 |
Oh my gosh MHZ! What a golden opportunity to have missed, so sorry! How are you liking AIB so far? I don’t remember...did you get it from your library or did you get a good deal on it somewhere? JB, the Johnny Rotten story was from Complete Works. It had been recommended by Doughnut a while ago. It’s quite informative and organized by album then songs, concerts, etc so really easy to look stuff up. I find myself picking it up every time a song or concert is mentioned to see if there’s any good or new info. |
MyHumanZoo 03.12.2019 18:38 |
I am liking AIB a lot so far, I like that it is more informative and less relationship focused (as in affairs and boyfriends/girlfriends). I can’t wait to get back to it, I just need a stretch of time to read uninterrupted, which isn’t happening lately! I got the book through a friend of mine who has connections to a type of book outlet. It is pretty much new, doesn’t look like the older versions I’ve seen in pictures. It has a green cover and says it is a first US edition. |
JoshuaGill 04.12.2019 08:59 |
This is a very interesting book, I advise everyone to read it) I recently read the book “To Kill a Mockingbird” and analyzed this book by writing an essay, you can find it on my site studydriver.com/to-kill-a-mockingbird/, I already wrote a lot of essays, I think you will find what you need. |
Amidds 04.12.2019 15:41 |
Wow MHZ, lucky you to get your own copy of AIB!!! Hopefully that makes up for the whole Paris/Montreux thing???? I would highly recommend Complete Works to you as well since you like the "fact" type of reading better. While the book does include anecdotes, it is not filled with personal info or boyfriend/girlfriend info. Welcome JoshuaGill! Are you referring to As It Began? |
MyHumanZoo 04.12.2019 15:53 |
Thanks Amidds! I have downloaded Complete Works on my Kindle, started in on it just to get a feel for it and quickly realized it is a book you must have in your hands. It just doesn’t have effect electronically, so I’m going to order a copy. Yes, the AIB book makes up for Montreux a bit, especially since it was much cheaper, lol! Welcome Joshua! |
JB050 04.12.2019 20:34 |
Amidds. I do have complete works. Just have to dig in further. :)) Hope everyone is having a nice day. |
Amidds 08.12.2019 16:01 |
Oh JB, you probably mentioned that before and I forgot. I’m really enjoying the book but it’s so full of info, I find myself putting it aside and squeezing in other reading when I have time. Speaking of which, if anyone is interested, Life on Two Legs is free on Kindle right now. I wouldn’t have bought it, but since it’s free, thought I’d check it out. I literally skipped to the sections on Freddie and Queen because I don’t have a strong interest in Sheffield. Kinda interesting to hear his side of the story and he is very fair and generous in his opinions on his time with Queen so it might be worth a read to you all. One little nugget that I don’t remember hearing before... |
JB050 15.12.2019 13:51 |
Hi Amidds!!!!! Sorry for the delayed reply. Not sure if I mentioned it. Haha. I liked how everyone was listing what they had, was going to do that, but hadn’t yet. That’s good to know! It’s the one I haven’t spent Too much time in. It’s great to know where your finding info. Thank you so much for letting us know about this. I’m I’ll take a look see if I can still get it. I am now on Peter’s book but haven’t gotten too much reading in. Maybe over the holidays. |
MyHumanZoo 01.01.2020 20:21 |
Happy New Year to all! I finally finished As It Began today....I liked it a lot. Great detail on albums/songs/videos released and the band’s feelings about many things. Could have had a bit more detail about some things, for example having read many books I knew that Freddie got quite drunk (unusual for him during performances) at the New Zealand show, resulting in some entertaining things. There was no mention in AIB about that, just a recounting of a great show in New Zealand. That being said though, I suppose it was hard to draw the line between relevant detail and salacious stories that the band may not want to have told! So I can see why they didn’t include certain things. The end was certainly sad, especially the final paragraph. It must have been incredibly hard to write that! This book is already on my re-read list. I need to decide which book will be next. I’m going through The Complete Works now but that is one that I cannot sit and read for lengths of time, I have to do a bit and digest it. I think I may read Phoebe’s first book again. |
JB050 03.01.2020 15:38 |
Hi MHZ!!! Great to hear from you. Way to kick off the new year!! I join in your happy new year to all wishes!! It has dawned on me that next year will be a major year, Freddie would have turned 75, and 30 years since the world had to say goodbye. Wow. That’s so great that you finished at New Year!!! :)). Mine went back to the library but I will be keeping my eye out to buy one, hopefully there is a re-release. I agree really good details. . I really like your deep compassionate notes about the end. I didn’t get that far. I know, anything we read, even though we know, it’s gut wrenching. I agree, can’t possibly know what it was like for those close to him, hopefully there was some comfort in the process of writing, if even a little. I smiled when you said you are on to Peter’s first book.... me too!!! I read pieces, couldn't get the book, then saw it online and now have it. Will be great to discuss here! AIB— I recall Amidds and I wondering if there are any clips or images of the concert mentioned in the book with Santa on stage, think it was Australia, when Freddie had or got out of Santa bag. Would love to see them if anyone has come across them. :)) Happy 2020!! |
MyHumanZoo 03.01.2020 16:09 |
Hello JB! It’s funny about Peter’s book, I tried and tried to find a copy reasonably priced a little over a year ago. I couldn’t find it on Kindle so I figured I needed a real copy (couldn’t get one through libraries either). The copies I found were so expensive, I finally decided to get one as a Christmas present from my husband (lol! He always has trouble picking stuff for me so this was perfect!). Ordered it from Amazon, and maybe 3 weeks later got a message that it was out of stock. Grrrr. Ordered it from another supplier and a few weeks later got a note that it got “lost in shipping”. Ordered another one and same thing happened. I did always get my money back, but realized this was some kind of scam going on through Amazon. Of course I reported it and Amazon could care less. Great, just figured I’d never get one (tried EBay and others too but seemed like a similar situation.). I was searching online for some other Queen related item and saw Peter’s book come up in the results through Google Play electronic books! Downloaded it and paid maybe $5! I didn’t even know Google Play was a thing. Just goes to show you have to scour through the weeds to find what you want! I looked through AIB to see if there were pictures of Freddie and Santa in Australia in it, but there are not any. There are quite a few pictures of that online if you want to see them, I belong to some Facebook groups related to Freddie and Queen and many people posted those last week. So it would just take a bit of looking around. I would grab some for you and put them here but I don’t know how to post pictures on here! |
runner_70 03.01.2020 16:50 |
Amidds wrote: Oh JB, you probably mentioned that before and I forgot. I’m really enjoying the book but it’s so full of info, I find myself putting it aside and squeezing in other reading when I have time. Speaking of which, if anyone is interested, Life on Two Legs is free on Kindle right now. I wouldn’t have bought it, but since it’s free, thought I’d check it out. I literally skipped to the sections on Freddie and Queen because I don’t have a strong interest in Sheffield. Kinda interesting to hear his side of the story and he is very fair and generous in his opinions on his time with Queen so it might be worth a read to you all. One little nugget that I don’t remember hearing before...Sounds like May wrote it. |
JB050 04.01.2020 03:13 |
MHZ! Wow. Ya, it’s really interesting. I wasn’t able to find it. I had the same experience of ordering from 3rd party thru Amazon and never receiving it and getting refund. I was also happily surprised about google play. But somehow I got really lucky and did get one through Amazon, thought maybe they re-released it. Great that we both have it and can discuss here. :-)) That’s so cool re: photos!!! Would love to see them. . If you tap on “full reply” you can upload photos here. Fair warning can only upload one at a time and will create a separate entry for each one. Runner... thanks for the re-post. Is that still currently available? Couldn’t find it on Amazon. Have a great weekend all!! |
CHEVYMAN 04.01.2020 04:37 |
Runner, If it ain''t Lucifer himself.Remember play nice on the play ground twinkie boy or I will have to put you in time out.Hope you had a merry christmas.We all look forward to your friendly participation behave yourself dont make me get the hose or holy water.We all know that water will burn its blessed. |
runner_70 04.01.2020 07:39 |
CHEVYMAN wrote: Runner, If it ain''t Lucifer himself.Remember play nice on the play ground twinkie boy or I will have to put you in time out.Hope you had a merry christmas.We all look forward to your friendly participation behave yourself dont make me get the hose or holy water.We all know that water will burn its blessed.Didn't you take your pills today? |
CHEVYMAN 04.01.2020 12:33 |
You have behaved so nasty on the other sight and accused a really nice man of things that he isn't even doing.I dont trust you.You have said the most vile things anyone could ever say to another human being.Im glad you showed your ugly head here so I can tell you exactly what I think.What do you think all that should be forgotten?How could you have so much hate for another person? These forums are designed to freely talk and visit with other people but when you use them to attack a innocent person or persons it becomes a place noone wants to visit.You once said why do our followers not visit other sights that's the reason cruelty bitterness and judgement.I think a good new years resolution for you would be to apologise to the man who you have been so terrible too and yes I'm talking about Thor.I aplogise to you for the previous post as the sight of your screen name makes me angry.Thats all I will say here sorry others for polluting your thread with negative conversation enjoy good books and discussions. |
runner_70 04.01.2020 12:38 |
Thor ?? I hardly spoke to that guy. He is still trying to milk some money out of his last desperate fanboys on here. Haven't been to that thread for ages as it is beyond pathetic. YOu must have mixed me up then. I just voiced my opinion on his "book" - which he obviously did not like but I dont give a flying fuck actually. Selling private pix for a quick $$ is very very low. |
brENsKi 04.01.2020 12:46 |
runner_70 wrote:I just voiced my opinion on his "book" - which he obviously did not like but I dont give a flying fuck actually. Selling private pix for a quick $$ is very very low.Make your mind up. Your last sentence containing a double-use of the same adverb, indicates that you do actually "give considerably more than a flying fuck". |
runner_70 04.01.2020 12:48 |
brENsKi wrote:Just my opinion. I don't think "Freddie would have loved it" that private pix are published. Too bad the guy cannot defned himself against those "friends". And I stand by my opinion. But what can you expect from someone who goes on third rate TV docus and tells the interviews huw huge Freddies cock was. Disgusting.runner_70 wrote:I just voiced my opinion on his "book" - which he obviously did not like but I dont give a flying fuck actually. Selling private pix for a quick $$ is very very low.Make your mind up. Your last sentence indicates that you do actually "give more than a flying fuck". |
brENsKi 04.01.2020 12:52 |
runner_70 wrote:You need to be a little more honest with us (and yourself) here. If it were Brian or Roger that died, exposé after exposé would not bother you in the slightest.brENsKi wrote:Just my opinion. I don't think "Freddie would have loved it" that private pix are published. Too bad the guy cannot defned himself against those "friends". And I stand by my opinion. But what can you expect from someone who goes on third rate TV docus and tells the interviews huw huge Freddies cock was. Disgusting.runner_70 wrote:I just voiced my opinion on his "book" - which he obviously did not like but I dont give a flying fuck actually. Selling private pix for a quick $$ is very very low.Make your mind up. Your last sentence containing a double-use of the same adverb, indicates that you do actually "give considerably more than a flying fuck". |
CHEVYMAN 04.01.2020 13:02 |
Runner, no he didnt say that word he said well endowed.Which means large yes but it was tasteful language he used.I seen that documentary one time and I seen nothing wrong with what he said.Some people meet at the gym they happen to meet at a bar.You dont understand openness and different cultures.I heard Peter Freestone use the word huge cock with a smile in a documentary.I dont see where anyone has a problem with him.Do you have a crush on Thor? If your a lady you out of luck he prefers Male company.But if your a man with a crush I get it he is very nice looking.Why dont you PM me ? I have been wanting to talk to you for a while. |
MyHumanZoo 04.01.2020 15:19 |
Ok JB, I’m giving this a go to see how it works! Freddie on Santa’s shoulders. |
MyHumanZoo 04.01.2020 15:20 |
And another |
MyHumanZoo 04.01.2020 15:21 |
Final! |
Amidds 04.01.2020 21:15 |
Still trying to get through this damn lingering illness....with my luck, it will turn into a 4 month ordeal like Thor! Have taken a break from all my reading due to not being able to stay awake for much more than work but was just thinking of starting up again with Peters book, how ironic!! I didn’t seem to have any problems finding a hard copy on Amazon which made me wonder if I got lucky or if you guys are referring to something else? I know his first was re-released and I’m sure I got the latest...... Also, Santa Claus was from a California concert, you guys got my research itch activated lol! link |
JB050 05.01.2020 00:49 |
Hi Amidds!!!!!! It is sooo great to hear from you!!! Ugh. What a long haul for not feeling well and having such low energy. I am sending lots of healing thoughts to you. I really hope you feel better soon. I’ve been on the verge with sinuses, coughing, etc. I love it. The three of us, and probably others, are so in sync with Peter’s book. I’ll bet you and I got ours in Amazon around the same time. Couldn’t believe it when I saw it. Can’t wait for the collaborative read and discussion. It’s so good. Thank you so much also for the link!! Leave it to you!! Yay!! Your researching is reactived. Wooo hoo!!! |
JB050 05.01.2020 00:49 |
Reactivated. :/)) |
MyHumanZoo 05.01.2020 17:38 |
How wild is that, we were all going to the same book next! When I first ordered Peter’s book and had all the troubles, it was November 2018. Perhaps there has been another printing to relieve the demand. I ordered it again in paperback yesterday from Amazon, I like having the actual book and not just an e version. It was only $15, we shall see if this one arrives. Sorry you are battling illness Amidds, hoping you get over it soon! |
Katydyd5 06.01.2020 02:18 |
I'm running back and forth between the Golden Globes and my computer and stopped in here. Am I reading correctly that you guys are going to read Phoebe's book next? I was just thinking of giving that a reread so maybe I will join you! |
Galileo1564 06.01.2020 03:27 |
Which Phoebe book? His first or his second? |
JB050 06.01.2020 14:26 |
Hi Katy!!! Yep!! How great!!! This is so cool. MHZ that’s exactly what I ended up getting from Amazon. Woo hoo! I’ll bet that’s exactly what happened. So cool all the way around. |
JB050 06.01.2020 14:26 |
Hi Katy!!! Yep!! How great!!! This is so cool. MHZ that’s exactly what I ended up getting from Amazon. Woo hoo! I’ll bet that’s exactly what happened. So cool all the way around. |
JB050 06.01.2020 15:34 |
Hi Galileo!. The 1st Phoebe book. We were having difficulty getting it but suddenly there have been reasonably priced paperback copies available on Amazon :-)). So great that we will have a book club all digging in together. You too? Yay! |
MyHumanZoo 06.01.2020 16:51 |
I have tried to figure how those suppliers made money on that Amazon scam, they must somehow get granted the visibility as supplier rather easily, get the money from our book order, and then run off of Amazon with the money. Perhaps Amazon (or credit card companies) provide the refund and then turn to the supplier for that money back and....poof, they have disappeared. I don’t know how sites like Amazon work but that’s about all I can figure. Very annoying for those of us that just wanted to get the book! I was watching the Golden Globes last night and missing the fun of last year, watching the awards shows and rooting for BoRap and the actors, and hoping for a glimpse of Brian and Roger. It’s not nearly as nice this time around...which makes me remember why I don’t typically watch awards shows! |
Amidds 06.01.2020 17:30 |
Thanks for the well wishes! If I can feel better long enough to get back to my reading, I will count it as a win! I now have 4 books started: Queen Complete Works (I pick up sporadically like you MHZ, it's a lot at one time), Illustrated Lyrics (got for xmas), a book on Paris (got from my daughter for our Paris/Montreux trip) and now Phoebe's first book. My husband just looked at me last night like I was insane. Usually I'm a one book at a time girl- start to finish only- before I move on to the next. Prob a good sign I'm still not at 100% lol!!! JB, hope your illness doesn't advance - we've got discussions to have :) ! MHZ, sorry you had such a problem getting the book. I know it's been well over a year since I got mine so I think I just got lucky. I think Amazon has gotten so big it's hard for them to catch/regulate all their sellers and what's a few hundred or thousand in refunds when you make billions? |
MyHumanZoo 06.01.2020 23:30 |
What do you know, my book arrived today! That makes me happy! Perhaps Amazon figured it out after a year, or maybe a new printing helped. I’m sure lots of people were ordering Freddie books in the aftermath of the BoRap movie so that probably created an insufficient supply at the time. It just amazes me that those big companies make so much money that they can brush off so many losses. I am normally the same Amidds, reading one book at a time cover to cover but I also have several open at the moment. I think there are so many Queen books I want to read and re-read that I now have one going at all times and just weave in some other ones at the same time so I can keep them all going! |
JB050 08.01.2020 09:58 |
MHZ- that’s amazing your book arrived! Great timing!!! yes last year’s awards were so exciting. I was glad to see Elton’s movie get recognized. Amidds and MHZ— that’s right...”nothing’s gonna stop us now” I love that you have a pile of books around you. I’m impressed that you can usually stay with one at a time all the way through. I also have a few I am rotating between. |
Katydyd5 09.01.2020 00:19 |
Amidds, hope you are feeling better! I'm boring, I can only handle one book at a time. I used to try to keep one going upstairs for bedtime reading, and one downstairs, but I just could not do it. Kept getting the characters confused. So, I did start Phoebe's book. I had originally intended to reread it because there was something I was looking for. I've long forgotten what that was, but figured I'd go ahead anyway. One thing I appreciate is that I always find new information each time I read it because my own knowledge base keeps growing. For example, I'll come across a name that I didn't recognize one of the first times around, but now I know exactly who it is. I forget, is this a first time read for the rest of you? I'm sure you've answered this before, but since I don't read this page faithfully, I don't remember. Sorry! I want to make a comment about something that drives me nuts about the book but I don't want it to be a spoiler. I'll wait to see what you all say. |
Katydyd5 09.01.2020 00:22 |
Side note...……………….if you follow Rudi's Instagram, you can keep up with progress on his Freddie book. Fair warning......he's in love and he talks more about that, but book details are there. link |
Amidds 09.01.2020 14:20 |
Katydyd, pretty sure this is a re-read for all of us. It is for me. I've been re-reading all the FM/Queen books I have over the past couple of months to refresh my memory and, like you said, because I keep finding new info or some info will click into place better as I have better knowledge. Think it's safe to start discussing unless you want to hear from others first. Also, thanks for the link to Rudi's instagram! I haven't heard anything in so long about his book, I forgot all about it! Hasn't it been a year since he announced or am I confusing him with someone else.....lol, this is why I need to re-read things! |
MyHumanZoo 09.01.2020 15:36 |
Peter’s book is a re-read for me too, Katydid, so you are free to discuss, I think. It’s interesting as I noticed the same thing going through the book this time, there are names I now recognize and even described scenarios sort of “fit” better as my knowledge has increased. |
Katydyd5 10.01.2020 02:24 |
Amidds, I do think it has been months since we first knew Rudi was going to write a book about Freddie. Rudi has started to post some of his Instagram photos on a Queen site I follow on FB and that's why I checked his account. At least we know now that the book really is being written. There are a couple of pictures on Instagram that show pages from the book and they are in German. I hope someone is translating as he goes or the wait will be even longer. I notice that some of you call our author Phoebe and some Peter. I'll probably stick with Phoebe because it's always been the way I've thought of him. I'll bet he never expected to be stuck with that nickname for a lifetime! The so-called spoiler I started to mention is his repeated use of the phrase "we were not amused" or some variant of that. It absolutely drives me nuts. The first time or two were ok but after that it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. It makes the teacher in me want to grab a red pen and strike the phrase every time he uses it. I wonder why his editor let that pass. BTW, I tend to be terrible at book discussions. I need to bounce off someone else so I hope someone brings up a discussion point. |
JB050 10.01.2020 04:04 |
That’s so funny Katy!! Im refreshing too stared to read it on e-book. Now happy to have it in my hand. Amidds, MHZ, and Katy— well said! I agree about catching more details after learning more. I’ve been distracting myself with other things. Haha. Looking forward to getting back in to this one while we are all reading it. Katy- you can be sure that I will be smiling every time I see that reference. Screech. :-)) |
JB050 10.01.2020 04:06 |
Also- so interesting about Rudi. Thank you for that update!! I’m a bit out of the loop - no Twitter, no instagram :-) |
Amidds 10.01.2020 15:27 |
You guys are hilarious! Though I agree Katy, that gets a little grating. I've always kinda wondered if that was some sort of inside joke or something between the boys when Freddie would have his angry moments??? Was wondering what you guys thought of Phoebe's comment on "the last songs that Freddie wrote". I'll include a little extra for reference but, basically, he was talking about Freddie and his bad luck with boyfriends, how the drama affected his work and how he needed that plus a little anger to fuel him: In London it was well-known that Morgan was seeing the dancer Philip Broom-head who was also a friend of Freddie’s. It seemed to be a curse which dogged him, that of his lovers seeming to two-time him with younger and prettier boys. Although Freddie might have allowed himself to be unfaithful, others were not allowed that privilege. The way Freddie functioned follows the long tail of genius born from pain…..And of course there were the last songs that Freddie wrote. I'm not really seeing the point Phoebe is making but it's probably something obvious you guys can point out to me lol! |
MyHumanZoo 10.01.2020 15:27 |
Katy, I was trying to figure out what might have bugged you and I wondered if that was it! When I read that it always just makes me laugh. Forgive me if you already understand, but Phoebe’s use of that phrase in reference to Freddie as the Royal “we” is funny to me. It makes me wonder if that is a phrase his friends/workers used when he wasn’t around, or if they joked with him in person like that. Or maybe that is just something Phoebe came up with later. It would be a fun question to ask Phoebe! The one reference that always gets me is his describing things as a commode. As far as I know, in the US a commode is a toilet. So when Phoebe has said there were commodes on either side of Freddie’s bed, I was picturing toilets by the bed! Later he used the term commodes for things in the sitting room and kitchen, and then I figured out that he must mean some kind of small cabinet. I had a good laugh at that! |
Katydyd5 11.01.2020 02:26 |
MHZ, I know the phrase Phoebe uses is the Royal we, but I feel that he overuses it. It's not a big deal, just a source of annoyance for me. I never thought about it perhaps being an inside joke. If you are right, it would make it easier for me to see it so often if it is a private joke. The use of commode confused me at first too. I saw two toilets too and realized that had to be wrong. Amidds, I'm not sure of the point Phoebe is making either when he says, "The way Freddie functioned follows the long tail of genius born from pain…..And of course there were the last songs that Freddie wrote. " We've been told Freddie needed conflict for creativity to flow. Maybe he means that some of the last songs were born of the pain of his illness. What do the rest of you think? I really don't know. I find it interesting when Phoebe says Freddie's lovers cheated on him with younger and prettier boys. Younger maybe, but prettier? Hmmmm…….. |
Amidds 11.01.2020 04:07 |
Kinda re-thinking it now. It comes on the tail of Phoebe discussing Freddie’s relationships so I thought that was what he was referring to. After re-reading, I agree Katydyd, that the pain came from his illness vs a bad break-up or something. I am almost disappointed in myself for not catching that. I even started to consult Complete Works, trying to relate his last songs to relationships and just couldn’t see what Peter was saying. Regarding the younger and prettier, I feel as if Phoebe was referring to Freddie’s insecurities and not a statement of fact? Kinda like that royal we thing....writing with a tendency towards a familiarity that may not be there? |
Katydyd5 11.01.2020 13:55 |
Phoebe was asked on his blog about Freddie's appearance. Here's what he said: Ray wondered if I thought Freddie was attractive. I’m sure you all know the old saying… beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What is beautiful to one person is ugly to another. I was lucky enough to spend 12 years in Freddie’s company, so was able to learn about the person inside the skin. Freddie hated his teeth, he wished he was a few centimetres taller, he would have liked a more defined body, he loathed his double crown, all these things were on the outside. As a friend, Freddie was the warmest, most loving person you could ever wish to meet and I’m sure you could ask anybody who knew him through work or his social life and they would agree with me. I saw the things Freddie listed as his drawbacks, but his personality shone past anything physical, so to answer the question, yes, I think Freddie was beautiful. That sums up Phoebe's view pretty well. Personally I think he was physically beautiful too. Most people see and maybe place too much importance on their own flaws and Freddie was no different. The teeth are obvious but I think they are such a part of Freddie that they don't bother me. Oddly, I am fascinated by his height. When I first began this obsession and watched concert videos, I thought he was very tall and powerful. It always surprises me that he wasn't . |
AlbaNo1 11.01.2020 16:15 |
He was 5 9. Not short for a man of his generation,maybe slightly above average. |
MyHumanZoo 11.01.2020 16:16 |
Ha...on the commode thing I remember thinking “maybe it’s a rich person thing...they want to crawl out of bed and be able to relieve themselves and crawl back in? Or a throwback to the old chamber pot days?” I was really trying to picture what that looked like, lol! On the pain for musical or performance inspiration, I think you guys are right about what Phoebe is saying. I’m not sure if it’s 100% accurate though, I just feel like Freddie was kind of high strung in relationships and was prone to fights while in them. That’s just based on all I’ve read. Even when he was supposedly happy and settled down with Jim they seemed to have massive fights at times. Were they always timed to when he needed “inspiration”? I guess we can’t ever know. I suppose with all the time Phoebe spent with Freddie he probably has the best insight on it! On the younger and prettier boys, I always kind of felt like Phoebe was saying that from Freddie’s perspective, and that Freddie was insecure about his looks and age, once he passed 30 or so. I’m sure prettier meant someone youthful with great hair and body, etc. Don’t we all kind of worry about that as we age? I’m sure the trophy wife term has that in mind! I am wondering about the term “double crown” that Freddie said he had. For me the crown is on the top rear part of the head, so I can’t picture what that would look like. I’m thinking he means that he has both sides receding on his forehead by the double crown comment? Anyone know? |
Katydyd5 11.01.2020 16:39 |
MHZ, you can Google "double crown hair" and it will show you a picture. I asked my stylist about it once and she said it's very difficult to work with a double crown. The Google article confirms that. Every once in a while you'll see a picture of long-haired Freddie and there will be tufts sticking up in the back. As for Freddie's height, you often see pictures where he is the shortest in the group being photographed. I think his very slight build contributed to him looking smaller. Plus I've read frequently that men tend to add an inch on to their height when asked. : ) |
AlbaNo1 11.01.2020 17:16 |
Not just on height |
JB050 11.01.2020 18:25 |
Wow!!! Great conversations. I need to re-read these posts again to have good input. So many good details there! After first read, I agree with all of you, at least from reading the quote here” that the quote about songs written during Illness was separate. Could someone tell me what page n the paperback version that quote is on so I can see it in context. And, I wonder if the younger and hotter was a Freddie young-n-cheek-ism. :-)) I actually made myself go back and read from the very beginning and, as I’m sure most of you know well, I probably knew this but forgot... so interesting on page 1 of Chapter 1 that Freddie was so struck by the ceiling in the Rainbow Room thatit “influenced the designs of some of the ceilings in his future home” |
JB050 11.01.2020 18:25 |
Wow!!! Great conversations. I need to re-read these posts again to have good input. So many good details there! After first read, I agree with all of you, at least from reading the quote here” that the quote about songs written during Illness was separate. Could someone tell me what page n the paperback version that quote is on so I can see it in context. And, I wonder if the younger and hotter was a Freddie young-n-cheek-ism. :-)) I actually made myself go back and read from the very beginning and, as I’m sure most of you know well, I probably knew this but forgot... so interesting on page 1 of Chapter 1 that Freddie was so struck by the ceiling in the Rainbow Room thatit “influenced the designs of some of the ceilings in his future home” |
JB050 11.01.2020 18:28 |
Haha. Tongue. Not young. But kinda ties in... ha |
JB050 11.01.2020 18:40 |
The way Freddie functioned follows the long tail of genius born from pain…..And of course there were the last songs that Freddie wrote Had to go back In posts for the exact quote. It will be good to read what leads up to this. Sounds almost like a commentary on what Phoebe witnessed as Freddie’s life experiences, inner pain, etc and creative process intersecting...how some are driven, maybe, and able to create not in spite of but using and because of struggles? Maybe too deep but another thought? Amidds, would be interesting conversation if you have the opportunity to mention this to Phoebe as part of your question list. :-) |
Amidds 11.01.2020 23:51 |
Oh my gosh, such interesting conversation! First of all....Alba, LMAO! I was thinking the same thing “not just height”! Don’t remember the commode thing so I’ll be watching for that on this read. Kinda surprising that’s not sticking out in my memory but I tend to fall down the research hole when I’m reading about Freddie and will look up pics of people, places or listen to a song that’s mentioned so, obviously I get side tracked! JB, pg. 50. Though it sounds like you may have found it? Will prob add that to my list if I ever get a chance to talk to Phoebe....no boat trip listed yet :( Katy, thanks for the Phoebe quote, I remember that now and I agree, Freddie was beautiful on the outside as well :). |
Katydyd5 12.01.2020 01:34 |
Alba, when I first saw your comment I thought "What?????" and then, LOL, I got it. Very good! |
Katydyd5 12.01.2020 12:44 |
I've just finished the chapter on the making of the videos. Made me want to go back and watch some of them. It also made me that much more eager for Rudi's book because it sounds as if it will be loaded with behind the scenes stories. |
JB050 12.01.2020 15:54 |
Katy- how cool. His book should be so interesting! I just read page 50!! Wow!! What an important and compassionate paragraph. I need to read it a few times, but do see it as Peter’s deep understanding of the way Freddie needed to function to do what he did and where it cane from in his life and then connect it to creative geniuses and process what they need emotionally. How the pain in their life is a driving factor, which I’m sure we all know Trtp some extent. This is also a beautifully written and insightful sentence: “Anger is the furnace which forges genius bit it is also one of the fuels which drives the whole process of creativity forward.” And to compare to Beethoven and his going def... and the last songs Freddie wrote... Almost sounds like he is talking about what drives creativity, even in the most dire times. Necessary evil?? Amidds, I am So glad you brought out this paragraph to discuss!! |
Amidds 14.01.2020 00:51 |
Lol, JB, glad you enjoyed the topic that was born of my ignorance! That’s ok, it was interesting! Not getting too far too fast in this book but am on pg 56 and there are 2 mentions of Thor with incidents I dont remember him talking about; a NY concert where FM invited Thor and others to outnumber Bill Reid’s invited guests (hilarious) and Thor’s familiarity and introduction to Freddie of Houston. Does anyone else remember these 2, admittedly small, incidents? I’m kind and surprised it wasnt brought up in those other 3 threads but wouldn’t be surprised if I just forgot. |
MyHumanZoo 14.01.2020 17:07 |
So like a dog that is easily distracted by the squirrel....I had to go and look up the double crown subject! I will have to look into it further, as now it has fascinated me. In China, a double crown is considered a sign of genius, and in India it is a sign of extreme intelligence (and naughtiness, lol!). There may be a link to autism as well...I am wondering if somehow a savant characteristic may be involved? Anyhow, I thought this might interest you guys. I will have to do more research on it. I know some are skeptical, but I raised horses for many years and there is a science behind a horse’s forehead hair swirls (location, direction of swirl and double swirls) and behavior or temperament. I found it to be quite accurate. Amidds, I found a few references to Thor and Lee’s activities in Phoebe’s book that I don’t recall them telling, and I read every single one of the posts in those threads of hundreds! It also made it more exciting to read the book, as this time through I could recognize them and it was fun knowing I had a remote link. I don’t remember even reading much about them the first time through the book, so it really shocked me to realize that Phoebe had talked about them so much. He certainly had lovely things to say about them, it made me smile! |
CHEVYMAN 14.01.2020 20:33 |
My human zoo, I been reading and enjoying what you guys have been writing .I dont read much but I do love for someone to interpret books for me to read their opinions.I agree with all you guys I love phoebe and the boys .Freddie had great men in his life.Yes I'm talking about Thor too!Now we can put a face to a name thanks to the threads.Thank you Thor! |
Katydyd5 15.01.2020 00:17 |
MHZ, I didn't know there was significance to the double crown. That's interesting! I can just imagine the trouble Freddie had with that double crown. I wonder if he knew the significance attributed to it in India. I've finished the book but I'll jump in if I have something to contribute. |
CHEVYMAN 15.01.2020 18:37 |
Xx |
CHEVYMAN 15.01.2020 20:58 |
Hope you guys have happy discussions this fine day.Just trying to keep this fine place where it belongs carry on. |
Amidds 16.01.2020 00:25 |
Oh what fresh hell is this?!?!? Lol, I’ll come back when things calm down ;) |
Katydyd5 16.01.2020 00:30 |
Hey, it's not an internal troll and I don't think it will be a big deal. We really don't need to do anything at all. I don't think it's that important to hold "position". Both of our threads are large enough to bounce right back up to the first page if that is important to anyone. I suspect the monitors will remove the bot posts and that will be that. Hope you won't stay away Amidds. I'm stopping by here more frequently because you guys stick to Queen/Freddie posts and that's why I"m on QZ. I'd miss your posts if you stay away! I may not post much but I do stop in every day. : ) |
Amidds 16.01.2020 02:03 |
Oh no, sorry Katy, I was just kidding. I saw all of that when I popped in and figured it would slow things up for a few days. Last time, things got so quiet for a few days! Still (slowly) doing my reading and will drop in when I come across something interesting! |
Katydyd5 16.01.2020 03:11 |
Yeah, last time it was two internal trolls fighting. I don't think we'll have the same havoc this time. BTW, I don't come here through QZ. I have this and Thor's thread marked as favorites so I can come here directly. Every once in a while I check the other threads to see if there is anything interesting so I saw what had happened. As I said a few posts back, I finished the book. I hope someone comes up with something to discuss. I will say I got bogged down in Phoebe's description of Garden Lodge, and that happens every time I read the book. This time I vowed to concentrate and really try to picture the house but I end up feeling like I'm in a maze. Still sounds absolutely exquisite with the furnishings and paintings. I think what I need is blueprints! Two of my friends were in London a week ago and sent me a picture of them standing in front of GL. That's the closest I'll ever get and I was as thrilled as if it had been me. I'm also interested to see what you guys think of the sharing of Freddie's final days. Not as graphic as Jim's book, but still I have to wonder if Freddie would have wanted that time shared. |
MyHumanZoo 16.01.2020 21:10 |
I’m with you Katydid, on the overly in-depth description of Garden Lodge. I appreciate that Phoebe was trying to describe it so we could all imagine being there in person, but for me it just got too detailed. If I were more educated on types of materials and very high end decorating terms maybe I would get it, but being a layperson most of it went over my head. What exactly is a Louis XIV fauteuil? I know I could go google all this stuff but it’s not really something I need to know in detail. I get it that some people are fascinated to know that stuff so it’s fine, but I probably would have preferred more stories about Freddie himself instead of all the Garden Lodge description. One thing that struck me as odd in the book was when Phoebe said that he was considering leaving Freddie because he was kind of getting the cold shoulder...and it ended up that they suspected him of leaking info to the press. I realize that Freddie had trouble with confrontation and such, but it sure seems like someone as trusted as Phoebe would have at least been tipped off by someone else in the house about what was happening? I just can’t imagine being treated like that after all his dedication. I suppose maybe the others were just happy it wasn’t them being suspected, but still it seems so off considering how close they all were for years. Kind of sad that Phoebe had to go through that! |
Katydyd5 17.01.2020 02:21 |
MHZ, it's not only the detailed descriptions of the decorating that makes my eyes glaze over a bit, though that certainly is part of the problem. I was also trying to figure out the layout of the house as I was reading. I'm not going to reread it again right now, but I think I might try to do some kind of sketch if I read again at a later date. I think the house probably had more rooms than I thought and that's part of the issue. Have you ever seen the Garden Lodge tapes where Freddie is giving a tour of the mews? The video is too dark so it's hard to see and a bit hard to hear, but Freddie is describing the rooms with the same kind of detail that Phoebe did in the book. I love to listen to Freddie speak and I love to watch him, but he does go on and on. In one room he does a detailed discussion of the wallpaper. : ) He does seem rather astonished that there are five bedrooms AND five bathrooms. I get a kick out of that. Oh, speaking of bathrooms it amazes me that he never could get a working shower in GL. That would not be ok with me! You get a little bit of a feel for Garden Lodge itself, when they all traipse back over there, but again, the video is too dark. I think it's sweet that he was so proud of the house. Since it seems that Freddie could be difficult at times, I imagine it would be hard to feel shut out by him and the others. But I can also understand being grateful that someone else was on the hot seat. I don't like confrontation either and have to be pushed to reach that point, but it does seem unfair. I'm trying to remember if Jim discusses that particular time in his book. Do you know? I'll probably reread that soon too. |
Amidds 17.01.2020 14:21 |
Great posts guys! Ditto on the description of Garden Lodge - my hope is that someday, they open it up as a museum so I can see it for myself because I think that's the ONLY way I will get a full appreciation of it. I do not have a great appreciation for decorating, therefore, next to NO understanding of the description. The closest I've come to understanding it well was those dark videos you mentioned Katy and, yes, they were too dark for a good understanding. Haven't gotten to that point in the book yet this time but will be skimming for just that reason. Katy - you mentioned Freddie's final days and if Freddie would have wanted that time shared. I honestly believe that he felt throttled while alive in having to hide things to protect his family/band mates/friends and feel that, with his big personality and "fuck it all" attitude at times, that he would not have had a problem with sharing many details. Probably more details than everyone else has shared to this point. I feel like we have gotten very "white-washed" stories to this point (which I totally understand and, at times, agree with) but feel like he would say "Fuck them darlings if they can't handle it!". Of course, that's just my opinion and I always feel like stark honestly is best, without purposely offending people, because I know that people have the option to not listen, change the channel, close the book, etc if they don't want to hear something lol. MHZ, regarding Phoebe getting the cold shoulder (you guys really found some great talking points!)....I did find that strange that such great friends would assume the worst and not talk something out. It seems so against Freddie's personality to not confront Phoebe to ask him why he did it instead of just freezing him out!!! However, he may have been soooo shocked and fighting wanting to believe it that he couldn't react honestly at that point. Hard to say for sure without actually being there. I'm sure Joe was horrified when they all found out what actually happened. Speaking of Joe - he's the one person that I feel there is just never enough written about. His story just seems so incomplete to me being such a big part of Freddie's life. I really hope these new books coming out share a little more about him! |
MyHumanZoo 17.01.2020 16:36 |
I’m the same Katydid, I tried to imagine the layout of GL by the description, and this time I really focused hard on that. But I still get lost, lol! I feel like I really understand the upper floor with the bedrooms, etc. but when it gets to the other rooms I have trouble understanding the orientation. I have a feeling some of it is due to the age of the home, the older European styles have lots of different directions of rooms and small staircases with offshoots and such, they are not built on the “square” concept of the newer US homes that I’m used to seeing. So I have to get my head into that style and try to conceptualize it. I would do better if I could see the architectural blueprint! I need to go back and check Jim’s book too, I don’t recall if he mentioned the incident with Phoebe, but I’m thinking he did. I guess it would be hard to be in Freddie’s situation at that point, and not really knowing if you could fully trust anyone even after long-term friendship. Seeing things come out in print would be heart-breaking! I just can’t imagine what he had to deal with every day. As far as the amount shared in the book, I think Phoebe did a great job, I think Freddie would be ok with it. I do feel like Jim’s book went into too much personal detail for Freddie’s liking though....just my opinion! I think sharing the feelings and personal struggles are one thing, but the more intimate and specific physical things...and I’m not even talking about their physical relationship as much as the specifics around Freddie’s state as he neared the end, etc. while it is informative to us to hear about it, I think Freddie would rather not have his physical state and details shared. I also have had similar thoughts about how little we know of Joe...I’m sure it’s mostly because he passed away so young, but it sure feels like a hole in Freddie’s overall story. |
Thereuhaveit 17.01.2020 19:53 |
I haven't buried a partner, but have buried a child. As part of my own grief work, reliving the moments of the loss is paramount to reconciliation and road to recovery. I've also interviewed parents who've buried children and that was a common theme--the discussion, sometimes in excruciating detail, of the last moments of life. It may sound weird or morbid, but for traumatic, deep loss, this kind of story telling (for lack of a better term) is something that many people benefit from in order to process (hate that word, but it's the right word). I didn't find Jim's descriptions particularly explicit, sad and sorrowful, but not explicit. And if you've read any information on AIDS and what it does to the body, he left plenty of details out. As to Phoebe's books, great tidbits, but sheesh, in need of a good editor. It doesn't appear as if he was in the "first circle" of knowledge vis-a-vis Freddie's diagnosis. He knew something was wrong, but wasn't in the loop. According to Hutton, he, Mary, Jim Beach, Joe, and Dominique Taylor were told in 1987; Phoebe in 1989. Should he have been, given his loyalty, told earlier? Maybe, probably, but who's to judge? Apparently, FM didn't think so, at least he didn't think so initially. I think one of FM's least attractive qualities as a person was this pushing away of people in times of conflict and stress, and his general avoidance of conflict and discussions thereof. Remember Jim's stories, especially the last incident, where Freddie--or his appointed messenger--asks Jim to move out. Then, he retracts the edict, but there never seems to be a full explanation why he behaves this way. Jim admitted (in the 1990 event) that he had no idea what the spat was about. That cowardly (harsh!) behavior has always struck me as emotionally immature. But his distance from his family as a child and early huge fame and forced closeted nature? Who can tell how those things impact the emotional developments and commitments of an individual. He certainly could claim that many cared deeply about him and that says quite a lot about him as a person, I think. And this is all speculation about folks whom none of us have known or will know, 30-40 years after the fact. :) |
CHEVYMAN 17.01.2020 23:28 |
TUHI, Some people push people away because they cant trust.They have trusted so many times in people and they have lied and cheated on them .I find it might not be healthy but more safe to stay in your bubble sometimes.Maybe this was his reason I dont know.Maybe he felt Jim was getting to close to his bubble and he needed to make sure he was for real and that was the reason for him wanting him removed to see if he would stick around.Who knows I dont I just try to put myself in some of those same situations in my mind what would I do.As for AIDS I do find he left plenty out AIDS patients die a horrible death.I do have experience with this I can still remember and visualize in my own family.You had some good points there TUHI I hope you write more for me to read.I do enjoy your interaction even though I mainly read here. |
Katydyd5 18.01.2020 00:34 |
TUHI, first I must offer my deepest sympathy for your loss. Losing a child must be an unbelievable pain. I do understand that talking about the loss in great detail can be a part of the journey. After I posted my original question I realized that both Phoebe and Jim were fairly tame in their accounts of Freddie's last weeks. Some of the details that we know now came from other people in other interviews. They did give more details of some of the horrors of an AIDS death. You are also right that much of our discussion is speculation. We have all gathered information from many sources and it helps to create a believable or acceptable picture, but we will never know for sure how much of what we have gathered creates a true picture. Having said that I do have to admit that trying to put together the puzzle that is Freddie Mercury is fascinating to me. It's odd. We know that Freddie avoided confrontation in tough emotional circumstances, yet at the same time he caused conflict to enable his creativity. Didn't he involve Jim Beach in his break up with David Minns? They didn't have a NDA, but I read somewhere that Beach basically told Minns not to reveal details of their relationship. The cold shouldering of Phoebe is another example of avoiding confrontation as is Jim's story of being asked to move out. I hope others who are reading Phoebe's book will find more to add to this discussion. I could get going on his taste in food, but I know many of you are still working your way through the book and I don't want to take advantage of the fact that I finished it by rushing the discussion. |
Thereuhaveit 18.01.2020 15:02 |
Thank you, Katy. My only reason for mentioning my situation is to alert others that writing about a loved one's death is a healthy and valuable way to accept great loss. My sense of both Hutton's and Freestone's books (especially Hutton's) is that they really were methods of exorcising their grief over the loss of a partner and friend, respectively. And, to remind all of us that we're attempting to cobble a picture of an enigmatic person/rock star from those who knew him best. That said, it's an impossibility, really, because of conflicting information and the passage of time. Two final thoughts: I supposed it's fair to say that Hutton's book was probably a little more...salacious(?) in 1994, though it's very tame by today's standards. I'm glad he had help in getting out his story; he'd been sidelined by the Queen Machine and I love it when one of the "little people" sticks it to a corporate entity. No one ever sued him over any of the information or took him to task, which tells me that his story was a true telling--from his point of view, of course. Secondly, like MHZ, I've always been curious about and a little sad that there's not more information about Joe Fanelli. It's clear that he was very important to FM, but all I've ever found out is that he was from Massachusetts, lived in the UK, but died in the US. |
MyHumanZoo 18.01.2020 16:15 |
Awww, TUHI, I’m so sorry about your child, I cannot imagine the grief! I can definitely understand the help writing about it would bring, and I can see how hard both Freddie and Jim took that experience. For me, I was really giving what I thought Freddie’s perspective might be. With his views on keeping his things private, and not sharing what was happening to him with even some of his very good friends, I think these books went into more detail than he would want to have revealed, especially Jim’s. I do think Freddie would be fine with them sharing their grief though. But who knows, you are right that we are all just speculating based on things we’ve seen or read, and didn’t know Freddie personally so maybe both Phoebe and Jim did what they thought Freddie would approve. I don’t think that I personally found any of it difficult or too revealing, I can handle the more graphic nature of things. Maybe I was just feeling uncomfortable for Freddie? It’s hard to say. Great conversation! I understand what you’re saying about Freddie avoiding conflict too, it is disappointing and kind of odd to imagine, especially seeing how bold he was about other things. But that is one thing I tend to share with Freddie, I always hated breaking up with people so I tended to “ghost” them and disappear if I could. If I was like Freddie and could assign someone else to break up for me I would definitely do it, lol! It’s not something I am proud of now and I wish I had been stronger. Especially since in my career I had global teams of hundreds of people and I never had a problem firing people or setting anyone straight on things. Why the difference? I don’t really know, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense. So in that regard I understand Freddie! |
Amidds 18.01.2020 17:49 |
Wow, TUHI, all I can offer are my heartfelt and woefully inadequate sympathies! I know that’s not why you shared, but, my heart goes out to you all the same. If I can expand on “sharing” through writing. I’m sure there are many reasons why they were motivated to do so but, they obviously did so out of love of the “subject”. Not every single person will agree with all they shared or the way they shared but they weren’t trying to be hurtful or hateful and that’s what counts. Here’s a horrible analogy lol; when I was helping my daughter plan her wedding, she was fretting over 150 people enjoying the menu. I told her that it comes down to this: 150 people will have 150 different opinions. They are not there for the food, they are there to help you celebrate an important day, if they can’t do that, that’s not your problem. Enjoy your day and don’t fret the small stuff. Well, in this case, you have thousands of people with thousands of different opinions and you can’t satisfy them all. Jim, Phoebe, Ratty, Thor, etc can only do their best, follow their hearts, be honest and true to their love of Freddie. I think the true culprits are the writers who are only out for the money, don’t care if they are telling the truth or if they hurt people. OK, enough of that!!! Katy, do love your point of Freddie loving confrontation at times to fuel his creativity and avoiding it at other times. It seems as if he was able to have the argument as long as he was secure in the knowledge that it was a temporary fight vs the emotional upheaval a permanent break up would cause? Temporary adrenaline rush vs long term, permanent absence of someone who filled a void in his life? |
CHEVYMAN 18.01.2020 18:58 |
Amidds, I agree about the opinions thing not everybody is gonna agree about everything.We all have our own minds and thoughts and Express them .At the end of the day jts what we do that matters.You guys are awesome here I have been reading what you been writing and really enjoy your opinions of the books your reading. |
MyHumanZoo 19.01.2020 19:18 |
I so agree on the culprits being authors just out for money, Amidds! It is really obvious to see, now that I have read several books, who is out to tell the truth and share insight on Freddie, and who is telling grand and outrageous stories sometimes in order to make a buck. Sad! |
Amidds 20.01.2020 19:53 |
So, I have made it through (admittedly stumbling) the vast, detailed "house" and "meal" portions. I feel as if I really don't have any better understanding of the house layout but I do have a couple basic questions for some of you who may have a better memory: I seem to remember reading that the Mews had been sold years back along with the Conservatory being torn down. Has anyone else read that? Thought I also read that Mary had moved down the street years ago? Another thing I came across that I don't ever remember reading an update on was the animated video that Jim Beach had made for Days of our Lives. Obviously the video was made by the band but I don't remember reading anywhere what, if anything, the video was used for or if it was just shelved. Anyone know? Last thing....where the hell have you been JB? lol |
MyHumanZoo 20.01.2020 21:23 |
I recall reading that Mary has moved down the street from GL now, but I didn’t hear anything about Mews being sold or the conservatory torn down. I hope those aren’t true! I don’t think the animated video for Days of our Lives was released officially, but it is on one of the greatest flix DvDs, I’m pretty sure. |
CHEVYMAN 20.01.2020 23:00 |
Amidds, She moved to a cottage around the corner.Grounds keepers live in the home I believe.The news was sold I think the property at her age might be a bit large she may have wanted to down size and have more privacy.Living in a rockstars home would have its disadvantages. |
Katydyd5 21.01.2020 00:26 |
I had read that the conservatory was torn down and the mews sold, but I don't remember where I saw that info. I have looked for the conservatory in some more recent pictures I've seen of GL, and I haven't been able to find it, but I was never positive I had spotted it in pictures when it was part of the grounds. Didn't the conservatory serve as the entrance to the mews from the grounds of GL? If so, and the mews was sold, they would no longer need the conservatory. I have never seen anything definitive about where Mary is living now though I have searched for that info. Every time I read that she's not in the house anymore I search for further info but have never been able to find anything other than rumors. Chevy, do you have a source for your info about a cottage around the corner? And are you saying that groundskeepers are actually living in GL? MHZ, do you happen to recall where you read that Mary had moved?I don't want to think that lovely home is sitting empty. |
Katydyd5 21.01.2020 00:28 |
Whoops, meant to comment on the animated video for These Were the Days. Wasn't that made as a backup in case they were unable to use footage of Freddie because he was so ill? |
MyHumanZoo 21.01.2020 01:52 |
Yes Katydid, I think that’s right on the video being a backup. You can find it on YouTube if you haven’t seen it yet. |
Amidds 21.01.2020 02:27 |
Hmmm, idk that the conservatory was used as an entrance was it? Gah, told you that whole description confused me. I do remember seeing some YouTube video recently that someone seemed to have shot over the wall at GL and there was no conservatory shown. From what I remember, it was a pretty good scan of the whole yard and no conservatory. Of course, I’m not gonna say anything about the audacity about someone climbing up a true or whatever to get that shot.... Chevy, I would like to know where u heard about Mary and the cottage too if you remember. I tend to think that maybe it was Phoebes blog where I heard she had moved out but no mention who, if anyone, is living there. It is sad to think it may be empty now. MHZ, gonna look up that video now, of course it’s on YouTube *facepalm* |
Katydyd5 21.01.2020 02:36 |
Oh Amidds, don't make me go back and wade through the house tour again! I thought you went through the conservatory to get into the mews. Maybe that's when my eyes were glazing over. That would be a great question to ask Thor when he returns to his thread because I think the guys stayed in the mews when they visited Freddie. |
CHEVYMAN 21.01.2020 07:36 |
I think it was in another group and according to one of Mary's neighbors so downsized.I imagine it was got annoying after years of the media and no privacy. |
Katydyd5 21.01.2020 07:53 |
I tried researching Mary's current residence again last night and I just can't find anything. I know fans have commented, but I'm not sure that's always reliable. Actually I think Mary's done an incredible job of maintaining her privacy. No one really knows anything about her, and except for that one photo that came out a year or so ago, she seems to have been able to stay completely out of the media. Kudos to her for that. I also wonder about the veracity of the idea that groundskeepers would be living in GL. I'm sure there are people hired to maintain the outside area, but I can't imagine they would be living in the house. As far as we know it is still as Freddie left it, and the idea of people he didn't know having access to the incredibly valuable contents doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It seems like it would be a huge security risk. I suppose someone could have been vetted for the position, but it seems, as I said, risky. Lots of speculation, not much hard knowledge. I'm sorry I've helped to take this away from the book topic. Stepping back into the shadows until someone opens up another discussion about the book. |
CHEVYMAN 21.01.2020 07:54 |
I meant they said she downsized and moved around the corner.Someone lives in it.I think it's the grounds keeper.Its probably sad for her or I think it would be at times after all these years past without her best friend.I think her and Freddie agreed on the purchase of the house for him in the beginning.Alot of memories there.Thats just how I think I'm kinda a emotionally attached person.Yhis all was related from another group that knew her neighbor. |
CHEVYMAN 21.01.2020 07:57 |
I agree katydyd people have been so unkind to her.I get why she wants away from there and her privacy. |
MyHumanZoo 21.01.2020 15:56 |
I think it’s amazing how Mary has kept her privacy too. I’m glad for her, I’m sure she would really get hounded to share things, and as much as I would love to know more about Freddie I think the way she has kept his confidence is so admirable. Which begs the question....exactly where are Freddie’s ashes? Lol! I’m happy she doesn’t share that, but it is interesting to speculate. I kind of think it would be cool if he was forever at Wembley! Interesting on the conservatory, I wonder why they would tear it down? And why in the heck is it called a conservatory?? : ) |
MyHumanZoo 21.01.2020 16:52 |
Oh...also Katydid, thank you for sharing Rudi Dolezal’s Instagram! He is definitely head-over-heels in love with his woman, it’s kind of cute. Question though...I followed him and he followed me back, did he do that with you as well? He seems really into having a nice relationship with his followers. He posted that he will be giving his followers an opportunity to pre-order signed copies of his Freddie book when it comes out. That’s cool! |
CHEVYMAN 21.01.2020 16:57 |
My Human Zoo, I have to admit I havent always been a fan of mary.But recently I have been thinking about her and she deeply loved Freddie and he loved her.He wanted to provide for after his desth.She has been silent sold no tabloid stories.I have to admit she was a loyal companion to him as much as she could be in the situation and position she was after his death.There is no doubt in my mind I think if he were not gay he wouldve married her.They shared a close bond all their lives not understood to anyone but them.How beautiful that is.Enough said. I want to here about some Peter Freestones food he likes food as much as I do.You have to like food to be a good cook. |
Amidds 21.01.2020 18:25 |
Katy - just a quick pop-in during my lunch regarding the conservatory. Don't want to make you re-read the darn thing lol!!! "There was one thorny problem however as regards this conservatory. Freddie wanted to have it built against the wall of the cottages which formed Logan Mews. While he already owned the ground floor of this neighbouring building, its upper floor was owned by someone else. The garage which was the ground floor had its own door into the grounds of Garden Lodge." Damn girl, I should know better than to ever question your memory!!!! |
Katydyd5 22.01.2020 00:49 |
Amidds, LOL, I suggest you question my memory all the time! Sometimes I sound like I know what I'm talking about when it may just be a vague memory. Your quote sounds like there is a door into the grounds of GL, but it doesn't say that it is through the conservatory does it? I'm not getting a clear meaning from Phoebe's statement. Does he mention the conservatory more than that one sentence? I may have to force myself to look at the house tour section again. In the meantime I've put the question on a list of questions I have for Thor when he returns. MHZ, I have an Instagram account, but I don't actively use it for a page of my own. I haven't followed anyone though I check Rudi and Brian on a daily basis. Rudi gives lots of hints about the book so I like to keep up with him. He really does seem to appreciate his followers and he definitely appreciates his Shatzi. Remember how much "we were not amused" grates on me in Phoebe's book? Rudi's "Hello darlings as my friend Freddie would say" is another nails on the chalkboard phrase. I do like Rudi a lot though and always have. I'm very anxious for his book. |
Amidds 22.01.2020 00:59 |
Screeee! Lol, just kidding Katy! What I got from that Phoebe quote was that, while there was an existing door from the Mews to the yard at GL, the conservatory kit was to be assembled (and was) on that same wall so that you could walk through the conservatory and into the Mews. I did attempt to verify this online today and did see some FB snippets that did confirm that along with mentions that the Mews have been sold, the conservatory was removed along with the koi pond, the Japanese garden plantings and Mary no longer lives there. I did NOT log in to FB (cause I don’t like FB) to see if it was any kind of verifiable source so take that all with a grain of salt. Definitely keep it on your Thor question list and I will put it on my Phoebe list! To jump in on the Rudi convo, I have followed him on Instagram, he did not follow me back if that helps answer anything. Keep in mind, I am really not a social media person and don’t think I have ever posted anything there so couldn’t imagine why anyone would bother to follow me back lol!! |
Katydyd5 22.01.2020 01:00 |
MHZ, I decided to follow Rudi when I read that his followers will have a chance to pre-order a signed copy of his book. |
Katydyd5 22.01.2020 04:06 |
Oh, hey, I was doing some more research on Garden Lodge and I found this YouTube video. I had seen it in some sidebars before, but never took the time to look at it. It sounds like the woman who did the video used Phoebe's book as a reference. One new thing I learned from trying to concentrate on that section of the book was that there was a Japanese room in the house. Her video shows that, plus the conservatory, and the service door near the kitchen. I found it interesting. link |
Amidds 22.01.2020 14:20 |
I have seen that before Katy but it's been a while and was a nice refresher, thanks!! Interestingly enough, the next vid that popped up was the one I mentioned where some creeper climbed up a tree and shot a video over the wall into the yard. If anyone ever questions why Mary MAY have moved out, that should just about sum it up for you! I hope the person the woman that did the video you posted, Katy, could do one for the inside. I have a hard time imagining the layout - especially of the upstairs. This rendering confused me on that more - is the upstairs a type of multi level? It seems as if you go up the stairs, get to Phoebes and Joes rooms along with maybe a couple of others then continue up a few more stairs to Freddie's suite. Gah, I have no imagination lol! |
CHEVYMAN 22.01.2020 16:04 |
Amidds, Can you imagine dealing with the grief of the losing Freddie I dont care what people say you cant help what your heart feels.Then on top of that she has people nosing into her private life as she tries to raise her children.I think she handled it well.People destroyed the wall so many times she had to pay for that.Yes I can get why she moved if she did.I would love to see the inside of the house though maybe if people hadn't been so ugly to her things could of been different.No privacy yikes ! |
MyHumanZoo 22.01.2020 17:22 |
Katydid, same for me when Rudi says “hello darlings....” drives me nuts! First time was kind of cute, now it just grates. I only have one post on IG of Brian at a concert and mostly just follow people so it seemed strange that he followed me back. I checked to make sure it’s the real guy (lots of fake accounts that have close names to “stars” that follow you briefly for attention I guess) and it is. Weird! I’m not even going to try and follow your GL layout discussion...my brain can’t handle it today, lol! |
JB050 23.01.2020 15:09 |
Hi all! I’m here. Fighting a head cold. Hoping to catch up with the conversation this weekend. Have a great day! |
Amidds 31.01.2020 20:28 |
Wow, we had been on such a roll lol! I did finish the book and intend to move on to Peter's next one but did want to bring up the following quote from pgs 188-189: "I don’t think he ever fell ‘in love’ at first sight or anything like that. He loved people, sure, but each person received a different facet of the total love he bore. No one person exclusively received that total love. Ever. I know he loved me. I know he loved Mary but in a completely different way and certainly never in the standard issue boy-meets-girl way". Not sure why this is sticking with me so much through this read through but, it is and I'm interpreting it as Peter feels as NO ONE ever became "that one" for Freddie. An extremely sad statement but, he did have so many friends that loved him unconditionally and were so loyal. Do you get the same impression from this statement? |
Katydyd5 01.02.2020 00:30 |
Hey Amidds, I'll come back to your quote later but is Phoebe's second book the one that has to be read on Kindle? |
CHEVYMAN 01.02.2020 00:31 |
Amidds, Yes Freddie was always looking for someone to love that complete package.I do think he wanted to love Mary in the traditional sense and it broke his heart he couldn't.But in years to come they grew together and end up and had a love that was more genuine and special than anything romantic could offer.He loved men everything about them he wanted the romance the intimacy the whole package I think.He just picked the wrong guys he liked the rough men that treated him badly therefore he could not commit to them the way a man could commit to another man in a loving long lasting relationship.I find this sad. |
Katydyd5 01.02.2020 03:14 |
Amidds, I have struggled with pages 188-189 every time I read the book. It's almost as bad as the endless description of Garden Lodge. It feels to me as if Phoebe is doing a lot of speculating on how Freddie viewed love. I do think it's true that he built a family with his friends and deeply loved them. It seemed as if those living at GL were more family to him than his biological family. I've always thought the boarding school years affected his ability to love, and part of that may have been due to fear of being abandoned. Of course, now I'm the one doing the speculating. Phoebe says trust was an integral part of loving someone for Freddie, but isn't that true for everyone? On page 188 Phoebe says that Freddie didn't have an idealized view of love but I think he did and it shows in the songs he wrote. It also seems as if Phoebe is completely dismissing the long term relationship Freddie had with Jim. I know that each time I read this section I notice that Phoebe stresses that Freddie had his most loving relationships with friends. Sometimes I wonder if this line of thinking was of more comfort or self-serving explanation for Phoebe than to admit that Freddie did have a long term loving relationship. If Phoebe believes that Freddie saved his deepest love for his friends, then Phoebe would benefit from that because he was a friend. I have to admit that these are sort of half-formed thoughts that I'm coming up with as I write, and not very articulate thoughts at that. I hope someone else will jump in. |
Thereuhaveit 01.02.2020 23:08 |
Katy, I have to agree with you, vis-a-vis what you're referring to in the discussion about FM's view of love in those confusing pages in Freestone's book. Like you, I've also wondered if there's a kind of dismissal of the Freddie/Jim relationship, in lieu of favoring the platonic relationships. I think your term "self-serving" is appropriate here. Most people require some, or many, relationships to fulfill needs and it's not particularly healthy to rely on just one person for happiness. It would make perfect sense for FM to enjoy many kinds of friendships. But it's clear from FM's own words and from interviews of (many) of those who were in his life those last 6-7 years that Hutton was clearly his chosen partner in life. I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted that oddness. I recall (it's not in front of me at the moment) that Freestone says something to effect (not a quote) that: Freddie understood love better than anyone. Uh, I don't think so. I think in his younger years, he understood attraction, lust, flirting, fun--and that's perfectly fine and appropriate for playing the field-- but I'm not convinced that he really "got" what true love is, at least not until his late 30s and had his fill of all of the above and he was wanting to settle down with a quiet partner. I'll also add that no one (myself included) would would be flummoxed about his behavior if he had been a hound-dog heterosexual, instead of a gay guy trying to live his life in a time before he could be completely open about his sexuality. |
MyHumanZoo 02.02.2020 01:51 |
Amidds, I noticed that phrase too, I was going to bring it up but I figured maybe it would cause conflict with people that think Jim was Freddie’s “one”. I think that as close as Phoebe was to Freddie, and for so many years, he knew pretty accurately what Freddie felt. I took this to mean that Freddie never really found his true love, that connects on every level. That doesn’t mean he didn’t love Jim and want a long term relationship with him, it just means that maybe Jim wasn’t his deep-down forever soul mate. So no disrespect at all to Jim or their relationship. Maybe Freddie would have kept looking for his “one” if aids hadn’t hit, who knows? Maybe life with Jim was good and comfortable and loving and he stuck with that. If you ever read Dear Abby here in the states, you’ll find out there are tons of women who marry a man that is a good husband and father that they love, but doesn’t stir that fire inside. (They figure this out dozens of years later and ask Dear Abby what they should do now!) All speculation on Freddie I guess, but interesting that we all noticed that statement in the book! |
Amidds 02.02.2020 14:48 |
First, yes Katy, Peter's second book is on Kindle. At least that's the only place I have found it. Second, wow you guys, I agree with everything. I had left my post a little open-ended because I really didn't want to appear as if I was trying to start a Mary v. Jim argument (lol) and I really love your well thought out responses!!! I also want to take it a little further. Based on Freddie's boarding school, religion and upbringing, we all know he had a horrible obstacle to overcome. I believe all those early relationships, especially where all the nasty fighting occurred was a reflection of his internal fighting of wanting to break free of all that strife and live his life how he wanted. But, he couldn't, because it could affect so many others (parents, bandmates, etc). So, it was a constant cycle of trying to find a love, knowing it could never work out the way he wanted it to, the anger over this, the fight that would ensue, the break-up, etc. (self-fulfilling prophecy). I also feel as if he had this imagined ideal of the "perfect" love that never would have materialized (because perfection doesn't exist) which added a certain amount of frustration. In the meantime, friendships were "safe" and Freddie was able to have and develop those relationships as much as he wanted. I really don't think those were a replacement as Peter suggests, just easier to a struggling mind. However, this of course if just Phoebe's opinion. While I trust him and do believe he probably knew Freddie best, he certainly couldn't read his mind and could really only guess at some things. Of course, at other times, Phoebe also does seem to write "carefully" ...seemingly not wanting to be too specific and offend people or stir something up. I get that as well, but those are the times where I get frustrated and start thinking "come on Phoebe! Just say what you're thinking!". I know he can't, poor guy, people would come down on him like a ton of rocks...... As Freddie got older, we could see how the fighting ended (ok, got less physical), the relationships calmed down and seemed to mature. idk if Jim would have lasted forever but I think they were on the right track. Like MHZ said, sometimes love is what you need when you need it. It's different to everyone. |
Thereuhaveit 02.02.2020 15:05 |
Thanks, Amidds, for broaching this subject. I think FM found solace in "safe" friendships and a variety thereof; he was after-all a bit (snort!) controlling, though I don't mean to imply he was selfish in his relationships as it's abundantly clear that he was a good friend and well-loved by many. I know that Freestone portrays himself as FM's closest friend (probably helps with the PR part of his work), and I do think he knew FM fairly well, but I've never quite been convinced that he knew him better than anyone else. He's one view point of FM and well-worth reading, but he's only one. Whenever I see something about how he knew FM "best" I'm reminded that he wasn't in the first circle of trusted loved-ones who was told about FM's diagnosis. That says a lot to me. As well, FM trusted him as a care giver for the end of his life, which also speaks volumes about their relationship. It's impossible to know whether FM and Hutton would have lasted for decades, though it seems their relationship (Freddie's early-in-their-relationship infidelities and later occasional emotional outbreaks, notwithstanding), was content and stable. They weathered a lot together, but were loyal to one another to end. I think that's the maturity that you're referring to. |
CHEVYMAN 02.02.2020 22:09 |
I do understand needing to have more than one relationship to make you happy.Its not such a bad thing.No in the early years Freddie didnt understand love as many young people dont they understand the good times and lust that's the short term fix to our emotions.Stress in your life can bring these impulses for lust on or that's he way it works for me.But it does seem to ease the stress in your life if not only for a short while.Maybe Freddie had alot of stress in his life and these relation ships helped him cope with these situations in his life.We all know his folks came down on him pretty hard who wants to disappoint there parents at least back then kids didnt. |
Katydyd5 03.02.2020 02:26 |
One thing I've never figured out on this forum is how to quote someone with their words appearing in a quote box. If someone knows how to do that, feel free to PM me, I'd love to learn. Since I am unable to manage that, here are TUHI's words: "I know that Freestone portrays himself as FM's closest friend (probably helps with the PR part of his work), and I do think he knew FM fairly well, but I've never quite been convinced that he knew him better than anyone else. He's one view point of FM and well-worth reading, but he's only one. Whenever I see something about how he knew FM "best" I'm reminded that he wasn't in the first circle of trusted loved-ones who was told about FM's diagnosis. That says a lot to me. As well, FM trusted him as a care giver for the end of his life, which also speaks volumes about their relationship. " I am in complete agreement. Of course Phoebe knew him well, not going to deny that, but "best"? Not so sure. Phoebe has made a career out of his knowledge and I'm glad because without him we might not know so much. He was certainly part of the inner circle, but I think there were others who knew him equally well. They just aren't talking. There was a period of years when Phoebe lived in GL supervising the renovations and Joe Fanelli traveled with Freddie. Theirs was a close relationship and I'm sure Joe would have said he knew him well too. Others have kept his secrets, and I'm glad of that too. Having said that I will say that when newbies ask for Freddie book suggestions, I always start with Phoebe's first book. Would I like the chance to hear him speak? Oh yes. Better yet might be one of those Freddie centered dinners he's doing now. It's a more intimate experience. The boat trip at Montreux would be a must-do for me. Amidds, I hope you are able to go on that boat and share all the details. When I see that he has posted a new blog entry I rush to read it. I think he has much to offer, I'm just not as impressed with him as he is with himself. I know I'm in the minority on that, and that's ok. As for his second book, I do have it on Kindle and realized I'd read it before. Have any of you read it? It's a quick read. I read it while listening to the Super Bowl. I don't want to put any major spoilers here, but I'll admit that I find the second book entirely self-serving. I'll hold off on saying anything else, other than to say that I do think it has the potential to cause discussions to descend into arguments based on past experience on QZ. The good thing is that you are all such thoughtful people that it should be possible to avoid conflict. |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 03:32 |
I think Freddie liked his cake and eat it too.It was okay for him to cheat on his lovers but he didnt want to be the one cheated on.I do find this a bit of a selfish quality in a person.However if two people in a relationship choose to have multiple partners and they are both open to explore this option I do think it's fine to have multiple relationships because TuhI, you are correct sometimes you just cant get what you need from just one relationship I know this all too well.But these relationships I find are not too common or understood in the heterosexual community I know I'm not comfortable discussing this matter of my life with certain people because of the looks on their faces tell it all.Maybe Freddie had some of those same fears .You spend so many years building a wall trying to hide it so noone will figure you out.Its not easy as im sure it wasnt for him either we have to keep an open mind when discussing these topics because they can become confusing and complex to the outsider looking in on his life. |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 03:38 |
As far as Freddie's diagnosis werent some of those first ones told simply because they had been his sexual partners and they needed to know not simply because they were trusted more.Correct me if I'm wrong I dont remember.I would think he contacted those first circle of people because he had been intimate with them. |
Thereuhaveit 03.02.2020 04:14 |
Well, Katy--great minds is all I have to say. :) Yes, I read the second Freestone book and yes, I think self-serving describes a big chunk of it. I like his books for their good bits and pieces of information, gleaned because he lived and traveled with FM for so long. But both books are disorganized enough that if I want to refer to something that I remember, it's tough to find the reference and who has the time for that? Chevy, I was only suggestion that FM had a wide array of friends whose company he enjoyed and that he and Jim had a comfortable and secure enough partnership that Jim was fine with Freddie staying up till all hours singing with Peter Straker, Mike Moran, or flying off to shop with Barbara Valentin, for example. I think that the one place Jim drew the line was expecting Freddie to be faithful to him. In their first months together, Freddie continued the behavior he'd always shown with his partners: he regularly cheated on all of them. At some point (spring 1986-ish) and going forward, Freddie and Jim enjoyed a monogamous relationship. As for the 'first circle' who knew about FM's diagnosis, I was going by Hutton's book and he listed the following: himself (after he returned from Ireland over an Easter holiday), Mary, Jim Beach, Joe, and Dominique Beyrand (Roger's partner, later wife). I assume FM must have notified ex-partners, but I don't believe I've ever read anything to confirm that and truthfully, I don't know what the medical protocol was at that time, in 1987. Later HIV/ AIDS patients were definitely encouraged to notify ex-partners, but I don't know when that became a recommendation. Actually, that's an interesting question: did Freddie notify ex-partners? (Besides Joe?) Did he notify Winnie and any other guys that he had flings with in Munich or NY? If he did, it's remarkable that no one spilled the beans or demanded that he pay for their medical support. I suppose that would have put them at risk of being publicly ostracized given the time and the fear of the disease. |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 13:37 |
Tuhi, I wonder if any of them are still alive.Some people from the 80s that were diagnosed are living today there aren many but a few.I know one in my home state of Oklahoma all parties that were involved are deased but her she was diagnosed in 1989.I think Freddie told past flings that he could remember he was still friends with many of the young men he had encounters with he was overall a kind man.I think if he remembered who they were he contacted some of them.David minns was one I know for sure and Mary of course.Joe was one that was directly affected and yes I bet he told Winnie andbi honestly think Barbara knew before he left Germany.I just dont think she released it to the public she had many friends dying with the disease and she covered Freddie's face with her makeup so I pretty sure she knew.She also took care of Winnie.I hate to say but I feel strongly that Freddie may have been the one infecting the others it seems ofcourse not knowing he had .to me it seemed his circle of friends seemed to all be getting it and the all were linked to Freddie in some way.Kenny Everett was one.The list is long Bill Reid Tony basin all linked to Freddie it's so sad. |
Katydyd5 03.02.2020 14:16 |
I don't want to delve too deeply into this subject because I'm trying to stay on topic with the book. But if I'm remembering correctly, and I don't have time to look right now, didn't David Minns find out about Freddie's diagnosis the way most others did? I think I remember him saying in his book that everyone knew Freddie was ill, and the rumors abounded, but that they had nothing else to go on. I know Lesley Ann Jones says Barbara knew in her book, but I tend to think most of what LAJ says is caca. Even the band, his work family, wasn't told until later and given strict instructions not to bring it up again. I tend to believe Jim's book when he lists the people who were told early on. Even Phoebe says he was told in a roundabout way. Freddie was not good with direct approaches to difficult topics, so I find it very hard to believe that he would have gone back and informed the legion of partners he had. He told those he knew could keep his secret and I think that was it. |
Amidds 03.02.2020 16:02 |
Katydyd - I think the replying w/quote has to do with the three dots that only sometime appear by the "Posted 'date'" that appear by the name. Those only show up at random times for me so I couldn't confirm lol. Re: Phoebe. I tend to agree that he prob didn't know FM better than everyone though he definitely had better knowledge than most. Freddie really seemed to section off his life didn't he? Even in his personal life, we've heard reports how he didn't include Mary with his close friends or kept certain friend groups apart. Yet, Phoebe, Joe and Jim and a few others seemed to be in that Vin diagram somewhere. So, while it's nice we get some info from him, I really try to keep in mind while reading it that it still is HIS opinion of events and of Freddie's thoughts. I think Freddie was WAY too complicated of a person for Phoebe to accurately decipher. He made another statement in his book that kinda bothered me more with this read through regarding cheating. It was along the lines of gay people tend to cheat all the time. I don't like those kind of generalizations. Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm wrong but, human nature tells me that's a little too sweeping to attach to any group. So, again, I will take it with a grain of salt. Good questions with who knew the diagnosis and when. If memory serves, the statements haven't been wholly consistent? If you take the times into account - I don't think there was real definite knowledge of how it was spread until the mid to late 80's. Remember in Thor and Lee's posts when they mentioned that at first, everyone thought it was Popper's that was causing the disease? And they didn't have reliable tests until the mid 80's. By the time, they knew the how and could confirm it, then add in the fact they Freddie had....um....a lot of lovers (is that a nice way to say it lol) how do you know who to go back and tell. It would really narrow it down to who you are still in close contact with I guess like Joe, Jim, Winnie (if they were still communicating). Don't remember for sure with David Minns....I know Freddie got back in touch with him but I thought that David said nothing was specifically mentioned about AIDS, just that he guessed. Anyone look back into that? Heading to Florida tomorrow so I will probably read through Peter's second book then. Gosh, Katy, I don't remember that in Jim's book either, guess I'll try to refresh my memory on that tomorrow as well. |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 16:42 |
I was just giving my input on Freddie's diagnosis and the speculations following his diagnosis.It was also mentioned above.Im also very intrigued by TUHI its interpretation on FM it's like she knew him perso ally and she makes some valid points concerning phoebe's position in Freddie's life. |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 16:44 |
I mean her interpretation sorry |
MyHumanZoo 03.02.2020 16:46 |
I am the same on the quotes on here, if anyone figures it out, please share! I have messed around and tried a bunch of things but never got it to work. Amidds, I understand what you are saying about generalizing on the cheating behavior. I hate to generalize too, but I do have to say that of the gay men I’ve known they are very much as Phoebe described, rather promiscuous and not able to maintain “romantic” relationships. Yet having very loving and dedicated long-term friendships...with males and females, much as Freddie did. I am certain that it doesn’t describe everyone, of course. I suppose it could be the same with heterosexuals, if we sat down and critiqued it in the same way. I always find it interesting to ponder whether Freddie’s upbringing and being away from his parents really impacted his adult relationships and behaviors. It seems like it would have to, but how might he have been different if he had been brought up at home? Would he have just been able to have a long term relationship? Would he have been as creative and motivated to succeed? Would he have become a concert pianist instead? Or would he have been pretty much the same? Fascinating! |
Thereuhaveit 03.02.2020 17:28 |
I think you're correct, Katy. Most friends and colleagues suspected, but didn't know for certain and it was only the inner circle (those I mentioned in my earlier post) who were told in '87), with a slightly wider circle (the boys in the band, Freestone, others(?) ) learning about the diagnosis in '89. A slight change of topic, but still book related, I recently read and loved "The Great Believers" by Rebecca Makkai. It's about a cast of wonderful characters caught up in the AIDS crisis, spanning the years from 1985 to 2015, with a couple of stops in 1991-92. I couldn't put the book down and re-read it immediately. It's fiction, but she's done quiet a bit of research into how the gay community and their families in Chicago responded to the onslaught of deaths from the disease. A finalist for the Pulitzer, it's won all sorts of other awards. Wonderful read. link |
Rainbow61 03.02.2020 19:22 |
Hi Everyone.... Enjoying the great book conversations. Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments and replies. Although I haven't jumped into any of the discussions yet, I do check out this thread and am always appreciative when someone cites the page numbers that are being referenced (when that is possible). For this last conversation, Amidds specifically mentioned pages 188-189...that helped a lot. Otherwise, I'd be thumbing through the whole book. Thanks for saving me the time! |
CHEVYMAN 03.02.2020 22:47 |
Human zoo, maybe Freddie wouldve become a young Liberace who knows.I think he was a unique person all his own.You were referring to what phoebe said about gay men being promiscuous I dont think from an outsider's stand point they understand that it's just a more open loving culture.Think about the 60s that was an awesome era I would of loved to had been born in that era.Its true that gays may have alot of different types of relationships with people but they arent always for sexual purposes.For an example take two men just because they are two gay men they hang out doesnt mean they have had sex.They may not be attracted to eachother.It was hard back in the day to be gay professionally and in your family so of course you had all kinds of Male friends.As far as the clubs phoebe would probably have to attend to as apart of his job I'm sure he witnessed Freddie pick up guys from time to time.I think guys went to the clubs not just to pick up guys but just to feel acceptance amongst others that experienced the same struggles they did.They also went to dance lol to celebrate life. . |
Katydyd5 04.02.2020 00:27 |
Rainbow!! Nice to see you, and even nicer if you'd join in. I always enjoy your thoughts. I do like the of indicating pages if at all possible. It makes it so much easier than searching through and trying to remember where I saw things. THUI, thanks for the book recommendation. I immediately put it into my Amazon cart as I know I would enjoy it. Unfortunately I'm still climbing out from under the Christmas bills and can't actually order it just yet. I've skimmed through the Minns/Evans book looking for any information about Freddie sharing his diagnosis David Minns. I assumed it would be in the final section of the book because that's where the contributors share about his decline and death, but it wasn't there. However, on page 82, Minns talks about being invited to a recording session with Montserrat and Freddie. He says he was shocked to notice the KC lesions on his face, but Freddie just blew it off as a liver complaint. On page 87 David Evans says there came a time when it was obvious he was ill, but equally obvious that he didn't want to discuss it. Evans also says at some point it was impossible not to guess what was going on and at that point Freddie invited him to lunch and confided in him. Unfortunately he doesn't give a year, but I would assume this was fairly far into the illness. I suspect that if I were to read that book again, for the fourth or fifth time, I'd be able to find other references where those around him respected his desire to avoid talking about it. This is one of my favorite Freddie books and like THUI mentioned with her book recommendation, as soon as I finished it, I reread it again. |
Katydyd5 04.02.2020 00:54 |
MHZ, I too find it interesting to ponder about how the time at boarding school affected Freddie. I've found on page 16 where Phoebe talks about his own time at a boarding school, but I think he speculates more later in the book on the affect it had on Freddie. At the moment I can't find that. Anyone???? He does bring it up on page 189, so maybe that's what I'm remembering. Sending such a young child off to a boarding school so far away is a totally foreign concept to me. I can't even begin to imagine sending either of my boys away at age 7 or 8, and then seeing them maybe once a year until they were 16. Enduring that separation at such a young age had to have affected his later relationships. I know he had family in India, but it's not the same as being with your parents during those formative years. On the other hand, we know very little about his parents. Both seemed to place high emphasis on a career, so would they have indulged young Freddie in piano lessons? If he hadn't been away from his biological family and thus forced to make "family" out of his schoolmates, would he have had the freedom to form a band in his early years? I feel like I've read a book where several of his schoolmates contributed information about his years in India, but I'm not sure what it would have been. I have a couple of other books about Freddie so I'll poke around in them to see if I can find anything. Maybe I'm thinking of a documentary. I know in a recent documentary we all saw ,his first girlfriend Rosemary shared some memories. Didn't she say that she too went to boarding school? Maybe that experience is like membership in a very unique club. As we all continue reading various books it might be fun to try to find out more info on those early years. |
Amidds 04.02.2020 01:43 |
Let me just clear up what I said about generalizing...I just don’t like to do that with anyone. I am guilty of it too and I try very hard not to. Every time I do, I always remind myself about so-and-so who doesn’t fit the mold so it’s just something that rings a bell with me. If “cheating” is something more common in the gay community, it wasn’t something I had heard before so it makes me wonder even more why Freddie seemed shocked by this beyond the fact that he tended to do it himself lol! Also, not something I’m judging, Chevy, a something you say is a common practice but I wonder if you are referring more to open relationships vs “cheating”? To me, cheating is something done when you have an expectation of monogamy. If that’s the case, then trust is broken. If it’s an open relationship, the you do you boo! TUHI, sounds like an awesome book, will add it to my list now. Love to have lots of plane reading material! Thanks! Hi Rainbow, I will try to keep in mind about the page numbers! I don’t always have the references with me when I post and I’m not sure how Kindle translates to actual book page numbers but, I will try to notate where’s I’m getting it from too so it will help :) Re boarding school...very interesting thought. Such formative years where a family’s love and influence could have such a great effect on a child’s development but would it have diverted Freddie’s path so we would’ve lost out on such a wonderful, soulful voice, creative person and lover of life???? I shudder to think of it!! |
CHEVYMAN 04.02.2020 02:38 |
Amidds, Gay culture is more of an open culture yes your correct so I dont know if what Freddie was doing in those early years which phoebe was referring too.I think when he entered a boyfriend status with Jim jim wasn't down with the open relationship thing and wanted more of a closed commitment like Mary.But to my own experiences and most gays do practice open relations yes.You had some good points thanks |
Thereuhaveit 04.02.2020 03:01 |
Amidds, I'm in agreement with you about the generalizations of groups of people. We all do it, but we should make efforts not to. That said, I wonder if part of the reputation of gay men (specifically) being promiscuous has more to do with those particular times? The closet was just opening and it makes sense that there would have been a tendency to flaunt that freedom. Freddie's experience in NY is probably a good example of that: he felt he could be himself and lived fully because of that. As well, the gay community didn't have a diverse system of community places to gather: they had bars and nightclubs--and that's pretty much it. Consider how different things are now: there's marriage equality (for the time being...) and, at least in most of the Western world, it isn't dangerous for two men to live together or even show PDA. The gay couples I know are married, long-term partners or young men who've dated and are planning marriage. Today, those in the LGBTQ community have churches, community organizations, neighborhoods in which they can fully participate without worry of being ostracized. Freddie Mercury and his gay contemporaries couldn't have imagined how different things would be, just 30 some-odd years in the future. I like what MHZ said a few posts back, that if we looked just as closely at the heterosexual community, we might very well find much the same dynamics. |
Katydyd5 04.02.2020 03:25 |
Well said TUHI. I've been struggling how to address this discussion and was unable to articulate my thoughts. You put my thoughts into words. I have gay friends who are married, both male and female. They have lovely, stable relationships. And I also agree with MHZ that the dynamics are much the same in both the gay and heterosexual community. I do try hard not to make generalizations. I'm getting better at it, but it still happens. |
CHEVYMAN 04.02.2020 05:24 |
TUHI,You are great at explaining this matter it's like you were actually there.I was a teenager in the late 80s early 90s alot of changes yescwell said. |
CHEVYMAN 04.02.2020 14:38 |
I agree That Freddie's time in Newyork must have been the most enjoyable for him he was able to let his hair down and enjoy himself.Peter seem to enjoy himself too .I guess being his personal assistant and all he got to witness all the freedom and joy Freddie experienced first hand.So I tend to believe what he has written in his books to be accurate and true to the best of his knowledge will show.However to know him best I'm not so sure about that one in Jim's book I think it is he had got something caught in his throat and it was Joe Fanelli that realised what had happened and found fruit caught in his throat.He could handle him when he would have his mild fits that alot of AIDS patients have in their final stages.He had some anxiety Joe could help with this.Joe knew Freddie on a more intimate and friend level I think.Im gonna jump on a limb and say I think even some of his Friends in Newyork probably New him better than Peter did on a friend level.Peter was a employee and trusted friend but to know him the best I dont know about that.Thats why I think when alot was left out about his stretch in Newyork it would've been very helpful for this part of the story to be told.Well i guess it will be now how lucky we all are. |
MyHumanZoo 04.02.2020 16:30 |
You know, this has been a really enlightening discussion, and well-articulated. Chevy, I do think you have a point about having more open relationships, I am almost wondering if that hasn’t developed as a result of the more promiscuous 80s? Maybe since many were “cheating” back then it became known that they were wanting more open availability of sexual experiences? I had more gay friends when I was younger and in the same bar/club scene, which is how I observed what they did. One thing I can say is it seemed that my friends would very quickly be in a relationship (supposedly monogamous), and then just as quickly sleep with another man, and then fantastic drama would ensue. I almost felt like the resulting fight was more fun for them than the cheating! My hetero friends did pretty much the same thing, they just slunk around and did it more quietly...and without the drama, I guess. The gay friends I have now are in more stable long-term relationships, so I suppose it is reflective of how age and life typically settle people down. Which goes to show we are all pretty much alike, I guess! Katy, I am the same on the thought of sending young kids off to school and never seeing them, I don’t know how a parent could do it! I guess if you are trying to establish a future for them maybe that’s how you do it, but even then it would be tough. We know a lot more now about how childhood experiences shape adults, so maybe that’s part of not being able to let them go. It does make you wonder how different Freddie would have been...and I started wondering how different I would have been if I’d had that upbringing. That can mess with your mind, lol! Back on the book note, I finished The Complete Works and it was very good. Really it is geared towards the individual songs and releases. I love how it details the musicians and who played specific instruments in each song. I learned a lot! I am now on to “The Treasures of Queen”, more of a general coffee table/collector type book so far. I haven’t learned anything new but it’s a nice collection of pictures and general info. |
CHEVYMAN 04.02.2020 19:54 |
My humanzoo, I remember things in the late 80s being this way I was14.I was a rare exception I guess I had a gf we were together till 17 then I preferred male partners.But yes drama !drama! drama!I think everyone thought we would be together forever it just didnt happen.I cheated with a boy.I cant imagine sending a child off to school I bet Freddie was terrified.His mom I know missed him something awful mothers and sons have close bonds.I know I'm jumping around to a different book but Rosemary's book talked alot about Freddie confiding in her a woman about his same sex attractions to men.I had forgotten about her.So I think he trusted her on some level in his early years which would of been the sixties and a terrible time for him I imagine at least his gf he could talk to her and she noticed this early on in their relationship and accepted it as such.Her book is rather boring but it gives alot of insight into how this upcoming artist was feeling during this time in his life. |
JB050 05.02.2020 09:03 |
Ohhhh great conversation!! I have a lot of catching up to do. :-)) |
Katydyd5 05.02.2020 13:54 |
Good to see you JB! I've missed you. One more comment on Phoebe's book and then I think I've run dry. He mentions the NY years frequently throughout the book. I find the book quite disorganized though and it requires some searching to find the NY sections though they are there and he does emphasize their importance. But one section that caught my eye and has always stuck with me begins on 182 and continues through the section we discussed extensively on love, friendship, relationships, etc. I'm not naïve, and lets just say I'm old enough to have lived through the drug culture that existed in those times. But I was still surprised at the amount and variety of drugs that they enjoyed. The scene that sticks with me is on page 186 where Phoebe describes going to their drug dealer for the weekend shopping. Apparently the dealer had a shop in his apartment and people queued up and were let in one at a time to shop. Various drugs were on display on a table and Phoebe moved along choosing the items that were on his list. What strikes me is...………….who does this???? Wasn't it a tremendous risk? If a line formed outside the apartment I'm assuming it was in the hall, but wasn't that kind of traffic noticed? Supposing Phoebe is arrested. Does he eat the list to avoid connecting Freddie to the deal? Of course I'm not serious about that, but if it had been me, I would have said heck no I'm not doing that!!!!!!! Not really much to discuss I guess, but I'm just struck by the danger and while I know Phoebe was both friend and employee, isn't there some point when you say no? Not worth the risk? |
CHEVYMAN 05.02.2020 14:52 |
Katydyd, phoebe was a friend like you said he may have been indulging a little himself in these drugs I'm sure it was all types of good uppers they had the good stuff back then.So I'm sure if he might of been there to get some love juice for himself as well it was worth it.Stimulants make sex so much more enjoyable Freddie just wanted everybody to have a good time.He was such a thoughtful friend it probably didnt cross his mind anyone getting busted.If they did he had enough money to make it disappear catch my drift. |
CHEVYMAN 05.02.2020 14:58 |
A grocery list for drugs that's funny lol |
Thereuhaveit 05.02.2020 16:32 |
Katy, I always wondered about the same thing. In one of the many documentaries out there, Phoebe talks about the drug buying, too. It does seem risky, but it was the 80s and (like today) if you're a white guy, you're probably less likely to get busted. I remember reading somewhere that the police in London were aware that FM used cocaine, but because he was discreet (and famous and rich, of course), they left him alone. The very rich get to follow different rules than the rest of us. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I suppose. Snark intended. :) |
MyHumanZoo 05.02.2020 16:59 |
I wondered about the drug thing too Katy....like really? A list? I’d like 9 poppers, 5 grams of cocaine, a few mushrooms (check for ripeness) and a little Angel dust? I’m trying to imagine this, lol! Was it like the art auctions....Freddie saying, “I shall not pay more than $100 for a gram of cocaine...and then Phoebe had to decide if it was ok to go over? “Phoebe...you KNEW I wanted that for the party, you should have paid full price!” : D So having also been alive and quite possibly having knowledge of these things at the time (wink) it was much different and easier to get drugs. Also, there was a longer or maybe more diluted line from the dealers/suppliers to higher end users like Freddie. I am guessing that where Phoebe went was someone that specifically supplied to the rich and famous, so it wasn’t like a store where you wander in from the street with your list. Probably lots of precautions to get in there. |
Thereuhaveit 05.02.2020 17:34 |
MHZ, I'm sure you're correct about that--a supplier for high-end customers. |
CHEVYMAN 05.02.2020 17:46 |
I'm sure the dealers werent back alley dealers they were top of the line.Grocery list of drugs mushrooms what do those do and what is angel dust.I have tried cocaine before it's a waste of money you have to keep doing it to stay high.I have never had poppers is that like white crosses a type of speed as well.I seen somebody on mushrooms and they were really messed up.I dont think I would try that one.I used to take some black Molly's in the day.Freddie wouldnt have to tell me twice to join the fun I lived by the seat of my pants.I just never heard of any of those drugs other than the cocaine.What the hell are we doing here are we talking about something in the book I hope so or dope dealing lol.Well I know the speed intensifys things if you know what I mean .On the the dance floor it probably makes you a dancing queen. |
Katydyd5 05.02.2020 19:03 |
Yes Chevy, I was talking about something in the book. That’s why I gave a page reference. I never expected, nor did I want this to get personal. I did assume the dealer dealt with high end clients. I also think that Phoebe had a sort of innocence to his look and thus may have looked less suspicious. |
Katydyd5 05.02.2020 19:03 |
sorry. I’m on my IPad and posted double. |
CHEVYMAN 05.02.2020 20:25 |
Katydyd , I found it a interesting topic and yes I do recall it being in the book.I was just joking around.I was curious I was unaware what some of these drugs where.It was a good topic well worth mentioning . |
CHEVYMAN 05.02.2020 23:40 |
Okay leaving Peter's book for a moment I briefly thumbed through Rosemary Pearson's book and I keep going back to this woman because recently she has come out and spoke some about her time with Freddie in art college.Did any of you guys notice in her book she goes into depth the emotional turmoil Freddie was feeling at this time.How she was afraid she would lose him to some of her gay Male friends that he desperately wanted to meet.In her filming she mentioned nothing to due with the fact she knew he was gay and their emotional separation.She mentioned absolutely nothing.Do you guys think this may have been rehearsed by Queen management was said while interviewing or am I reading into this too much. |
CHEVYMAN 07.02.2020 19:08 |
Guys I cant help but see all the activity surround that guy named Rudi that's writing a personal book about his time with Freddie.He seems to be touching base with many fans already.Im sure it will be a good book but I wonder how much of his personal side Freddie showed this man.We have to remember Freddie was the great pretender.He was full of all different people within himself.I think only his guy friends from Newyork got to dig down deep enough to reach this mans soul and who he really was.He felt relaxed to be himself in their company.He gave alot but he received alot too.It will be interesting with both these books being released who will win the popular vote.I know I have my bet on Thor and Lee's book.Rudi had alot of buisness dealing with Freddie that has been written about many times.The guys really had that close tell me anything bond with him even though after he left they made such an impact on his life he stayed in touch.It will be interesting to watch this unfold. |
MyHumanZoo 07.02.2020 21:47 |
It will be interesting to see Rudi’s book, if I had to guess I would bet there won’t be a lot of new stuff we will learn in it. He’s giving it such a build-up that I can’t imagine it can live up to that, plus it has been quite some time and it seems like being in “the business” he would have taken the opportunity to write it and make money long before now if he had new information that hadn’t been shared. But who knows, I’m still hoping it will be good. |
CHEVYMAN 07.02.2020 21:50 |
Human zoo, me too I cant wait to see what has to bring to the table. |
Rainbow61 07.02.2020 22:14 |
Freddie fans are fortunate that two new books (that we know about so far) are going to be published about our favorite singer. Short of spending 24 hours a day with someone, and even then our impressions would be filtered through our own personal lens, nobody knows all facets of a person's life. My husband knows me better than anyone, yet he could not write about my professional life in any detail, except for the snippets of work I share with him at the end of the day. Likewise, there is not just one person who can give the complete story of that larger-than-life man we all love and admire...and that's okay. Freddie's professional life and personal life were so wonderfully rich...it will be a joy to read and learn more about him from both books. I don't need Thor and Lee's book to delve into Freddie's creative process. They will have wonderful stories of time spent with a beloved friend during an important period in Freddie's life that only they can share. Likewise, I do not need Rudi's book to delve into what Freddie was like outside of the studio. Rudi was lucky enough to witness Freddie's creative process and have a hand in the magic he created. Rudi got to see the musical genius at work and Thor and Lee got to see the musical genius at play. I truly look forward to both books...there is absolutely NO competition between them. They will both offer a unique perspective for which I am grateful. |
JB050 07.02.2020 22:27 |
I’m here :)) hoping to read posts and do some book reading this weekend. Loving this conversation. In the meantime, had to share a pic of pants I found in Shp in FL. I fell in love with them. Who knows, maybe the person who made them is on QZ. Have a great weekend all!! (Absolutely living the coin pics - am so excited for all who got some!) Pants pic yo follow. (I know it’s a book thread, but knew you would appreciate these :-)) |
JB050 07.02.2020 22:29 |
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JB050 07.02.2020 22:32 |
Pants - back Amidds, if we pull it off to get to the OH convention, figure I’ll have comfy, cool pants to wear. :-) |
JB050 07.02.2020 22:32 |
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JB050 07.02.2020 22:33 |
Just two more pics. Close ups. :-)) |
JB050 07.02.2020 22:34 |
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JB050 07.02.2020 22:40 |
Oops thought I selected the front view, here it is Hopefully I didn’t cut into book discussion :-))) |
CHEVYMAN 07.02.2020 23:07 |
Jb050, Its a book thread but anything is welcome so is any topic on the mind. |
Katydyd5 08.02.2020 00:45 |
So good to see you JB. Love the pants. They will be perfect for the convention, but also for curling up with a good book. MHZ, you wondered why Rudi waited so long to write a book, and that same criticism has been leveled at Thor and Lee. After the Bo Rhap movie came out there was a huge resurgence of interest in Freddie. Older books were updated and reissued and now we've been promised some new books. Who knows why now? I'm just grateful to know I will soon have two new books to delve into. I've always liked Rudi. If you watch the "making of" videos you can see the respect he had for Freddie and vice versa. For example, I find that Rudi's face shows great caring when working with Freddie on These Were The Days and it's almost heartbreaking. The extended version of the making of I'm Going Slightly Mad shows the two of them discussing ideas down to minute detail. I think both of them were/are creative geniuses. I also enjoy all of the interviews Rudi did with Freddie because it was clear that Freddie trusted Rudi. Phoebe wrote a paragraph on each of the Queen videos, but details were sparse. I think Rudi will share so much more of the creative process and I think we will learn more about Freddie's personality at work. I've also read interviews, though I can't pinpoint the source, where Rudi talked about being at Garden Lodge. I think he knew him quite well and obviously for a very long time. I find his promotions of the book on Instagram and now his new FB page almost funny. He's so in love with his new girlfriend that I think the enthusiasm has spilled over into everything he says. Rainbow, you said it well. There won't be any competition between the two books. Both will allow us to see a unique side of Freddie. |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 01:03 |
I'm sure both books will be beautifully written with Freddie on their minds recalling all the laughter and joy he brought to their lives.I just wasnt aware of another book coming out so quickly it will be a gem as well.I have had interaction with Rudi he is a true gentleman and has a kind heart always when we speak. |
JB050 08.02.2020 01:35 |
Ugh. I wrote a whole reply and went to fact check and lost it. Haha. I’ll try to reconstruct it. Thanks Katy! Reading pants are a great idea. They are like yoga pants so are really comfy. Was smiling and thinking of all of you when the person at the store said, are you a Queen fan! :-). Hmmm let’s see. Haha. I agree about the books. Different perspectives. Very exciting. Does anyone know if the mid-80s “musical prostitute” interview was when Freddie and Rudi first met? I thought I read that somewhere. That they met then and Rudi perfectly planted the seed that he could produce videos etc. |
Katydyd5 08.02.2020 02:13 |
JB, I think I'm the one who said that was when Rudi and Freddie first met, but someone corrected me. Maybe MHZ? |
JB050 08.02.2020 02:26 |
I found it. May be little bit of duplicate but here is the original. Haha Thanks Katy!!! Reading pants!!! Great idea. They are equivalent of yoga pants. So comfy. The person at the store said do you like Queen a lot. :-))) I agree about getting two, completely different books... so exciting. And so great to get more perspectives from people close to him. Can’t even imagine how it must feel for all involved to reach back in to those memories and times and all the feelings that go with it. Was th mid-80s “musical prostitute” interview in Austria the first time Freddie and Rudi met? He did such a good job. I thought I read somewhere that it was when they met and Rudi planted the seed/offer that he could produce videos etc. did seem like such a mutual respect and successful partnership. I always admired (from what I’ve read about) Freddie's insight, instinct, and appreciation for not just quality, but quality people, he could surround himself with and have a trust level, especially professionally, like Phoebe, Diana, Rudi, etc. |
JB050 08.02.2020 02:29 |
Thanks Katy. MHZ - can we tap in to your encyclopedia brain. :-)) |
Rainbow61 08.02.2020 02:31 |
Here is a link to a magazine article about Rudi where he talks about that first meeting and the interview with Freddie. link. |
Katydyd5 08.02.2020 02:40 |
Thanks Rainbow! So it sounds like the "musical prostitute" interview was their first meeting. I'm the absolute last one to remember timelines. I'm better at fluff like who was Kurt Raab. LOL! I do look forward to this book. |
JB050 08.02.2020 04:35 |
Thank you Rainbow!!!! For your encyclopedia brain. :-))) |
Rainbow61 08.02.2020 05:00 |
Ha Ha. No encyclopedia brain here...I had to do a Google search to find the article because I couldn't remember where I had read the info. :) |
Thereuhaveit 08.02.2020 15:03 |
Thanks, Katy for posting that article. I also came across it a while back and referred to it in one of my first posts to QZ. It was the part (at the end of the article) where Rudi talks about visiting Freddie toward the end of Freddie's life. You can tell from the article that Rudi had great respect for Freddie, both as an artist, but also as a person. |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 15:04 |
I personally didnt find the days of our lives heartbreaking as the true meaning of the song was with Roger in mind and how he felt about his family and kids.As far as Freddie in that video yes he was near his final stages of AIDS.To me he didnt look like a sick man even though he was very sick.He was just in another state of being.Thats what death represents nothing more than a journey to another state of being that we all will someday travel.Some of us just got there quicker than others.The man could still hit those notes even with his lungs do weak. |
Katydyd5 08.02.2020 15:16 |
TUHI, I can’t take the credit, Rainbow posted the article. She’s always been good at finding things. I knew I had read several good articles about Rudi but I couldn’t find any of them when I went through my files. |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 15:17 |
Rudi is making a everlasting impression in the fan world today.I believe he is writing and reading some of the material to fans and followers on instagram.He and his gf are so cute together it makes your heart smile.She is in Munich doing some work but he said he wants to share some of his writing with the fans how geniune.It will be a awesome read as well I bet.I believe I remember him saying that after Freddie let the ones he needed to know he had AIDS he would no longer kiss him on the mouth to greet him or when he left .So Freddie valued his friends and wanted to keep them safe when little was known about AIDS.That says alot about him to me.I believe a few pages back someone mentioned something about this. |
Thereuhaveit 08.02.2020 15:22 |
Thanks, Katy for the correction, I guess I missed that. I'm impressed that you keep files. :) |
Thereuhaveit 08.02.2020 15:43 |
Oh, and thanks Rainbow! |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 15:48 |
JB050, If you think about Freddie was a musical prostitute passionate about his music it was his life.He poured his heart and soul into it.It was his dream he worked hard for it put in long hours to achieve the fame.He sang to his voice bleed that's determination.Folks that love music and have the appreciation for it want to be around it and that's exactly what Freddie did.I played piano and Guitar as a kid and still do but cant say I had that passion.Who can say they got to live out their dream well Freddie did.He played for a little band called the heritics in school which alot of young boys do in school.He then went on to fame and turned this struggling band named smile and renamed it QUEEN by the way and became the star he told his college buddies he said he would.They are still rocking that name today. |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 15:57 |
Hetics |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 16:10 |
Oh I forgot about his college band he had one of those too sour milk sea I believe.I will have to research that's before my time lol. |
MyHumanZoo 08.02.2020 16:46 |
Thank goodness Rainbow has the encyclopedia brain! : ) I am excited about both books coming out, truly hopeful Rudi’s has new stuff in it. I would think maybe he would have done interviews prior to this, but I do understand the new fervor about all things Freddie and Queen after the movie success. Hopefully he has lots of good nuggets about what Freddie was like creatively and in the process, I would love to hear that. Rudi is so cute (yes a little sickening too, but new love has got to make you smile!) with his Schatzi! Which reminds me...I wanted to ask, does anyone know why Rudi and Hannes were called the Torpedo twins? Maybe I read it at some point but I sure can’t remember it. I’m also wondering if he is/was on good terms with Hans...he never really talks about him except to call him his ex-work partner, but I wasn’t sure if I was reading something into that. I think Thor and Lee’s book will be awesome too...Freddie from a friend perspective and I hope some new pictures from Lee! As for reading pants...I have mine as well...they are leggings usually....all manner of Queen and Freddie images on them. I will have to snap a picture next time I’m reading! |
CHEVYMAN 08.02.2020 17:23 |
My human zoo, Rudi is so cute for a older man I find older men attractive.How old is he?His gf is gorgeous too.I do love those leggings too.Perfect for a jogg or reading a good book.I do think both books have good things to offer to me the personal stuff intrigues me more.I dont want to know so much about the work environment but the man behind the magic. |
Katydyd5 09.02.2020 01:38 |
MHZ, I know I've seen an explanation for the Tornado Twins, but I couldn't find it today. Not much out there on Hannes. The only thing I saw is that their company, DORO, filed for bankruptcy in 2003 and they've had little contact since. |
CHEVYMAN 09.02.2020 03:38 |
MHZ,it might be a question for Rudi he is a super nice guy he loves to answer questions.Our bunch seems to have good luck with him. |
CHEVYMAN 09.02.2020 03:44 |
Speaking of Rudi he was running earlier he cares about his health.Thats probably why he looks so well for his age.He hasn't changed much at all.I watched the days of our lives video and the way he helps Freddie down the steps is so loving and caring.You can tell he had great respect for him. |
CHEVYMAN 09.02.2020 20:50 |
Amidds, Are you back from Florida yet?I was reading what you wrote about Freddie keeping his Friends separate and they hardly ever crossed paths except everybody knew Mary but she was a special person to him that would make sense.Peter Straker and his crew was kept separate from his other friends on the other hand though Peter knew Barbara Valentin because there were pics of them at functions together.I wonder did Straker not get along with some of Freddie's other friends was he trying to avoid conflict.Curious minds want to know now that you mention it. |
doughnut 10.02.2020 12:48 |
hi all, I was just skimming through your posts and wanted to say that last year Phoebe did a tour of Kensington with some Italian fans and this included GL. It was Phoebe that said Mary was no longer living in GL and that it is now empty. The mews of still there as i'm pretty sure that is where she now lives. Her sons are grown up now and have prob flown the nest so I imagine GL is just too big for her. I also agree with you Katy about Phoebe's view of Freddie and love. I too found this confusing when reading. I have always felt that he was capable of loving one special person and that to me is what he was searching for. If you look at his performances of 'someone to love' in the 1980's he tended to start off asking for somebody to love before starting the actual song. At one show he sang ' will somebody find someone to love ME' . I think he made his feelings for Jim quite clear in 1987 but we will never know for sure how things would have panned out had freddie been healthy. I do feel that Freddie loved Jim very much but to confuse matters even more with regards to what Peter says, during the tour he said that he is always asked who he loved more. He replied that he didn't love mary in the sense people wanted him to have and at the time of his death, he had a special place in his heart for Jim. I do think that although Peter knew Freddie very well, he couldn't have been party to all of Freddie's personal thoughts and feelings . I feel that Freddie must have held some things back to himself or just for him and Jim. |
doughnut 10.02.2020 13:38 |
“Yesterday's story ended with the sentence that indicated Mary as Freddie's widow and did not take Jim Hutton into account. I would therefore like to shed light on this subject, the relationship between him and Jim. Jim Hutton was the man who gave Freddie all he wanted: stability, love, serenity and simplicity. In the first part of his life there are parties, and excesses as he approached forty he needed normality. Jim gave him all this! I received a lot of messages asking if he loved Jim more than Mary, I say he was in the place to be with the person he wanted next! If he loved Mary more, I would have had no reason not to be with her! Surely Mary was a great love and a great friend and certainly influenced Freddie's choices very much but at the time of death he was not in love with her in the sense that everyone would like ... that part of his heart belonged to Hutton.” Here we have it people!!!!!! link (this is the link but you will need to translate it) |
Thereuhaveit 10.02.2020 14:24 |
Thanks for that link, Doughnut. I believe I came across that link as well, though I never looked at a translation of the interview. I'm still baffled as to why some "fans" have such a problem with Jim and Freddie's relationship. It's clear from interviews--in print and audio--that those who knew the two men believed their relationship was successful and fulfilling. I think there's a real strain of homophobia involved, that some can't imagine that two men could meet, fall in love, and create a content, happy home together. I know there was a troll on QZ last spring and summer, before I found this site, who claimed all sorts of hideous behaviors on Jim's part and I'm baffled as to why someone would spend so much time creating a fantasy about someone they've never met. I think that troll has moved over to Quora, as I see someone with the same arguments and anecdotes making the same claims. Sheesh. I don't want to weigh in too much on the Freddie/Mary relationship, but she was clearly a friend and someone he'd taken care of for a couple of decades. I also found Phoebe's explanation of love odd--it didn't really make much sense to me, either. As well, I recall that his books were both written in the 90s, not too many years after Freddie's death. I think it can take time and distance from the death of a loved one to fully evaluated and understand the roll played by that loved one. I imagine Phoebe had great love for Freddie and that it took years to fully incorporate Freddie's impact on Phoebe's life. That evolution of thought and emotion would color his observations, perhaps changing some beliefs from the first years after Freddie's death to something more nuanced and mature in the decades that follow. |
CHEVYMAN 10.02.2020 14:34 |
Doughnut, I totally agree with you on the Mary and Jim subject.He did have a special place for Mary but I feel him being a gay man couldnt provide her with the love that she desired from him..I know she undoubtedly loved him I think he gave her what love he could give at the time but his heart was with Jim Hutton who he considered him his husband which made him very happy.I do love his love story ending. |
CHEVYMAN 10.02.2020 14:44 |
TUHI, I Imagine spending all those years with Freddie phoebe was clouded with memories of fun, love, sickness, and then memories of the moment of his death that never left him.His first book your right it was maybe hard to recall everything he still missed his employer and friend so deeply.I remember him saying after Freddie's death he coped alot by drinking to sooth that grief and pain.Im glad he is in a better place. |
CHEVYMAN 10.02.2020 17:57 |
For that matter teo men or two women can create a happy home with love and happiness it's something I never understood either.Why should it matter to someone else.They arent the ones involved in the relationship but yet you would think they are by their judgements it's gotten much better but we got a little ways to go.I wish we could live like they did in Woodstock in the 60s that was probably an awesome time. |
doughnut 10.02.2020 19:20 |
thereuhaveit it has baffled me the length this particular person goes to do discredit Jim. The things that she says are totally astounding and i often have no words when I see it. Perhaps there is a hint of homophobia , I hope not but what else can it be!! Good point about time with regards to Peters thoughts on Freddie and love. Maybe overtime he began to recall his time with Freddie and has realized there must have been a different love between Freddie and Jim , a love that is different to the love he had for his friends and the love he received from his friends. The love you have from one special person tends to be different and to me it was clear Freddie craved this kind of love. I am just glad that he had Jim at the end along with Peter and Joe xxx |
Thereuhaveit 10.02.2020 19:48 |
Yup, she's a piece work. She has multiple accounts on Quora with at least a few people challenging her. I think there's more than a 'hint' of homophobia, but her stories about Jim are wacky. |
CHEVYMAN 10.02.2020 21:49 |
What are some of the things she is saying? I don't think I have seen her posts. |
doughnut 11.02.2020 07:50 |
chevyman I think it's best not to feed her by writing on here what she has been saying. It's not nice and I don't want to think about it as it makes me sad and cross. |
CHEVYMAN 11.02.2020 14:20 |
Doughnut, I forget folks can see everything on these sights I dont want to know her anyway.I hope Amidds returns soon he or she stays so busy working but does find time to read.Im wondering about something in David Minns book Do you think it was awkward for poor David when he spent the night with Freddie and Mary in their apartment knowing he was the lover and she had no idea.I remember a part in the book where Freddie invites David to stay and he does the next morning Freddie gets up like nothing's wrong after sleeping with Mary and says to David are you hungry Mary fixes great scrambled eggs.Imagine that . |
Amidds 12.02.2020 14:54 |
Finally back and almost caught up on work - seems as if I missed a lot of good convo. I won't drag the discussion back but I do want to thank Doughnut for the info and link (on GL and Mary) - it was nagging me that I couldn't locate the source for that! AND - thanks for the book recommendation TUHI. It was very poignant and beautifully written! I won't go further as it's not a Queen or FM book but I would recommend The Great Believers to all! Regarding the discussion on Phoebe and his statements on FM & Jim and time putting things in perspective.......I know I've said this many times (sorry) but as I read Phoebe's books, I notice a lot of innuendo and incomplete info as if he is being overly cautious. I understand this completely!! However, then he later opens up and you get the statement like Doughnut referenced where Phoebe is very clear on Freddie's feelings for Jim and Mary. I'm sure that Phoebe is very careful out of his love for FM and any others he is writing about but it can be confusing!! See pg 216 of his first book where he is talking about FM cutting some people out of his life. Phoebe references "there are reasons I know of for this", mentions one specifically then kinda moves on. Makes me wonder if there is something else going on that makes him feel as if he has to be evasive at times ("Timing and the manipulation of events seems to have been an integral element in this whole story", pg 245). Am I reading way too much into this lol? |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 15:23 |
Amidds, no I dont think you are reading too much into by things I think phoebe has always been careful when talking about Freddie's relations and even now due to Queen productionsxand all good point. |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 15:24 |
Typo Queen productions and all.Im typing on my phone lol |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 15:27 |
I feel that Queen productions primarily Jim beach has had a big influence on what phoebe has and hasn't said this is just my personal opinion.There are no references to this anywhere. |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 15:27 |
I feel that Queen productions primarily Jim beach has had a big influence on what phoebe has and hasn't said this is just my personal opinion.There are no references to this anywhere. |
MyHumanZoo 12.02.2020 15:50 |
Amidds, I agree with you....I feel like Phoebe’s books are very cautiously written, he seems to me to be guarding things while trying to share general insights. He gives some examples where he can, but it does seem like he’s holding back. I get it, whether contractually (guessing he had a non-disclosure agreement) or just as a good friend keeping confidence. I don’t think we’ll ever get anyone to spill (not that I really want them to). I actually love that no one has really done a true tell-all, it gives me hope that real friends do exist! |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 16:01 |
My human zoo, yes they are carefully written I just meant that there may have been a contract he had to sign that he wasnt allowed to discuss certain matters .It does seem he had a great friend in phoebe and company meaning Joe , Jim and any other employees that protected him from that awful media circle. |
Thereuhaveit 12.02.2020 16:23 |
Amidds, glad to see you back and I'm thrilled that you enjoyed "The Great Believers"--my feeling is that it's one of those great American novels that show up from time-to-time and that will be read generations from now. I have the exact same impression about the information Freestone shares, or doesn't, as the case may be. In reading his two books and seeing/reading later interviews, he was careful with his words/explanations in the early years after FM's death, but more open later on. I won't speculate as to why, but distance from the actual events, possible legal issues, and his own evolution of thought must all play some role in the seemingly disparate phrases and stories. |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 16:54 |
Tuhi, I dont think that's entirely the case with Peter it seems to me he is pretty involved with Queen enterprises and such as his views on the bohemian rhapsody film which I know is unrelated back when he was writing his books there is no way he wouldve been down with the way that project went down .I'm just saying I hope your not offended. |
Katydyd5 12.02.2020 17:42 |
Amidds, nice to see you return! Reading that you also enjoyed “The Great Believers” pushed me to go ahead and order it. TUHI I’ll pop in after I’ve read it and let you know what I thought. I’m always happy to get a recommendation for a good book. |
Amidds 12.02.2020 19:19 |
Thanks guys - nice to be back. Though I do miss the Fl sunshine! Yes! I wonder how much of that is contractual vs respectful. I really DON'T need to see a tell all, I love the stories Phoebe and others have shared to let us get to know the real Freddie. Though, between Phoebe's veiled remarks and Thor and Lee's threads (which I have also been re-reading), there were a few mentions that lead me to believe that the 'Queen Machine' has put a concerted effort in to white wash things. While nobody needs to hear 'dirty details', I don't know of anyone who hasn't put FM in a good light and share their love of him (OK, by that I mean people that know him, NOT LAJ or whoever these other people are who never even met him!). Along those lines, I find the opening and closing chapters of Phoebe's books so interesting when he mentions the 'characters' in the books with where they are now. I don't have it with me, but I will probably chime in with a couple to see if those of you with the encyclopedia minds know what he is referencing because, at times, it's a little unclear lol! Katy - hope you enjoy that book as much as we did. I thought the author did an exceptional job with covering years of history in a condensed manner while still covering so much ground and showing so many different aspects. |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 20:04 |
I dont think dirty details of someones life are necessary either but what I do believe in is not telling a story book version of someones life and creating a character that they arent.When your telling stories and relationships of someones life.Especially someones sexuality I find it so sad to say they are something or pretend they are something they arent.Thankfully there will be a book soon to validate this.White washing is a great word for what was done.I think phoebe is a great man and loyal friend Ijust feel his views have changed to accommodate what Queen management instead of what he really feels.We cant forget he is a gay man as well and he understands those times and that life. |
CHEVYMAN 12.02.2020 20:08 |
I think phoebe wrote those stories in his book with the most love and respect of those times while he was still grieving. |
doughnut 14.02.2020 17:20 |
amidds I agree with regarding Peter and I've found it a little frustrating. To me it's as if sometimes he backpaddles on what he has said. Personally i don't want dirty scandal on Freddie but I would like to know the real story in as much as he can say. I personally feel that since the film which he helped with, he has become more guarded in certain areas . What I find most frustrating is he clearly backed up what Jim said about the unfortunate events at GL after Freddie's death but later on he has changed his story slightly almost making out that Jim lied. This disheartens me somewhat. I have done a little digging and in the UK you don't need a property to be vacant when applying for Probate. Probate is what you need to deal with the estate. If GL was being sold they wouldn't have been able to do it without probate . Probate was granted in May 1992 so sometime after the three months notice given. I don't wish to get into a war of words over this, I'm really just putting my thoughts on this contentious issue out there. I really do think the moment Freddie died it became a business matter and Jim's main issue was getting the men out of GL and getting it transferred over to Mary. I just think with all the raw emotions it was perhaps delivered badly and taken badly and not done perhaps exactly how Freddie may have imagined it could be. In the long run I feel Jim was better off out of there but it's a shame he wasn't given time in GL to properly mourn Freddie in the place he shared so many memories. What a mess aye. We will never know the real story but its an interesting one |
doughnut 14.02.2020 17:23 |
I have just looked into 'The Great Believer' as I enjoy reading. Thank you I'm going to read it. |
Thereuhaveit 14.02.2020 18:39 |
Thanks, Doughnut for your UK insights into the probate issue. I wondered about that 'house has to be empty' thing, it didn't really make sense to me. I agree that it was better that the three guys FM loved (and who loved him in return) left GL as I'm sure it was (in the long run) best for them in moving forward with their new lives. Still, whatever FM's intentions, once he died, it was all about business and property, and valuable property at that. It would have been a kind and compassionate measure to give each of the guys some time to adjust to the changes and I suspect that's what FM would have wanted given his generous nature towards those he loved and trusted, especially those three who cared for him, but he didn't make that known in writing. I hope you enjoy the book--I bet you will, it's a lovely read! |
CHEVYMAN 14.02.2020 18:48 |
Agree totally Doughnut you took the words right out of my mouth all I can say is Queen Machine has influenced him what to say that's my opinion. |
Amidds 14.02.2020 19:05 |
Doughnut, very interesting, thanks for the info! I wondered about the probate thing and couldn't help but wonder - why didn't someone warn the guys of this if it's true?!?!? Not sharing it makes either Jim Beach or Mary look deceitful and uncaring. Not knowing makes Jim Beach look incompetent as a lawyer. Neither of those sat exactly right with me so I assumed there was more to the story. Either way, your'e right - the guys were probably better off as they were forced to move on/not dwell and we will probably never know. I also agree about Peter and can't help but wonder how much of his hesitance is due to Queen influence and how much of it is from nasty people contacting him. Ever since the movie came out, there has been a great resurgence of interest in FM and, with that, comes the tendency for some to throw their opinions around as fact and get incensed over it. Last September (I think) on his blog, Phoebe made some passive-aggressive remarks which seemed to be directed at people insisting that their views/opinions were truth (and weren't). I would imagine it's very difficult for him to put up with that when he is only trying to share his love of FM and stop the rumors/lies. I totally get that - I find myself being very careful in QZ so I don't get attacked by someone wanting a fight or getting angry that I may not agree with a different opinion! |
CHEVYMAN 14.02.2020 19:23 |
Qz is full of opinions we all have different minds and different thought processes thank God it would be a boring place if we were all clones of one person.Thats what makes each one of us special and unique.I just feel I'm the beginning Peter was really involved with Freddie and his buddies in Newyork even friends if you will and it seems like now to me he has turned the tables and is taking one for the team and belongs to everything Queen management has to shove down his throat.To me this part is so disappointing. |
doughnut 15.02.2020 11:52 |
amidds its a no win situation .....if Mary came out and said 'yes Freddie made me promise to let the three men stay until they are ready but I knew it was a promise I wouldn't keep ' it wouldn't have done her any good in the public eye at all. Imagine Freddie's fans if they knew she had gone against something he had made her promise. We wouldn't have known any of what went on if it hasn't been for Jim and Peter's books. Those books then lead people to either turn against Mary or turn against Jim. It was an unpleasant situation for all concerned but I do agree it could have been handled better and with more compassion. The probate thing doesn't add up to me because the Mews was also part of his estate which was also left to Mary. Why then did they have to move out of GL and into the Mews for those three months. It's all very odd and whatever the reason was at that time it hurt those three men very much . Its been 28 years now and clearly time is a healer so for Peter it isn't painful anymore, he has moved on . However, you can't take back what has been put in print and what he was clearly feeling when he wrote the book. I saw the comment on his blog and I think it may have been directed to that awful troll who was saying terrible things about Jim. She has an IG account and a fan of Freddie and Jim got Jacky Smith from the fan club involved by showing her what this troll was doing. I presumed that she may have told Peter prompting that post on his blog. I also don't feel fully comfortable posting certain things on QZ for fear of being attacked. This is way to public and there are many people with intense feelings. That's why I have said 'it's just my thoughts'. . I don't wish to go down the 'queen machine' route as we don't really know what Jim Beach is doing on behalf of Freddie. The fact that Freddie was gay and lead an interesting life is out there now so there is nothing to cover up . From what I can tell, Mary has no dealings publicly now as Kash is around and happy to represent Freddie when needed. That's another thing as from a show I saw her and Peter on, it's clear there is no love lost between her and Mary. All very interesting. If you have a FB account I recommend you look up the group 'the show must go on ' as they posted a copy of Freddies will that they had applied for . It's public so anyone can pay for a copy. They have explained it in a easy to understand way. It's actually that which got me thinking about the probate and vacating GL. it seems since the film there has been a surge in requests for his will. |
Thereuhaveit 15.02.2020 14:05 |
The film has certainly invigorated new interest in Queen and Freddie. I've found that, a few trolls as the exception, QZ is a fairly safe place to discuss and/or ask questions, at least with *this* particular community of fans. Yes, tempers flare on occasion, but for the most part, everyone is respectful. I think the troll you're referring to is now on Quora, dispensing his/her "wisdom" about the Freddie/Jim relationship, using the same writing style and "facts" used to defame Jim that were use on QZ in the past. Trolls gonna troll, I suppose. The difference is that the QZ fans, who are generally knowledgeable, would have none of the garbage the troll was selling and that troll eventually gave up, whereas Quora is a different kind of Internet venue. I agree with you, doughnut, that he/she was the person who Phoebe was referring to in his last post some months ago, I definitely got that impression. I guess there must be loads of sites on FB devoted to Freddie and Queen? I've never looked at any, but I'll bet there are some...interesting ones. Also, for anyone who's interested, I noticed that Queen Online Forums seems to be back, up and running. Apparently, there was a server issue, the moderator scrapped the whole deal and started again from scratch. While not as active as QZ, it's also a good place for information. |
CHEVYMAN 15.02.2020 21:30 |
TuhI, It sure is opinions are a good thing to have as long as we are respectful of eachother I started a threadAbout Freddie and Jim last week.I dont feel that Jim gets enough attention that he deserves it seems he is always catching the droppings of alot of the discussions there or the arguing over Mary.One or two posters I see there post but that's okay one told me posters that are fans of Jim are afraid of getting verbally attacked for stating their honest opinions.Imagine that.Me on the other hand it might not be a popular vote but I refuse to say a woman was the love of any mans life if a man was.Its clear to me yes trolls will be trolls but we must not mistake people with strong honest beliefs and no fear to say how they feel as being a troll trying to stir the frying pan.I do agree with some of your points you have made some good ones. |
CHEVYMAN 15.02.2020 21:48 |
Doughnut, I do love that interview with phoebe and Kash you can sure tell there is no love lost between her and Mary.The mews yes well it doesnt make sense to me either.Mary also had the place sterilized after Joe moved out because they had AIDS.Its not airborne silly woman.But this same woman wanted Freddie to throw Jim out and she wanted her man back.How can you have someone that was never your to begin with.So all these little inconsistencies about the boys and GL wouldnt surprise me a bit if it wasnt Jim beach behind that pen as well.oh the point I was making phoebe did say Mary influenced Freddie alot so she was behind much unkind feelings.You can forgive someone in time but forget you never forget. |
Amidds 16.02.2020 15:43 |
Doughnut-couldn’t agree more that’s it’s a no win and I am still amazed that people take this so personally! I also have to agree with your probate comments, not sure there’s is much merit to that. Phoebe did make a comment at one point (maybe his blog?) that suggested squatters rights might have been a contributing factor. From what I’ve read on that, I suppose it’s possible though, in the early 1990’s, it seems as if gay rights weren’t being recognized AT ALL regarding estates so not sure how that could be a concern but who knows?. Phoebe has also alluded to problems with settling estates on at least two occasions: his own relating to ownership of a home and in regards to Joe Fanelli. Doesn’t seem as if the situation needed to be handed the way it was when you take these things into consideration. Would love to pick a lawyers brain on those things lol! What show are you referring to with Peter and Kash? I don’t think I’ve seen that one. RE Quora....you guys are making me really glad I missed that nightmare! I just hope that’s not what has kept Peter from his blog! |
CHEVYMAN 16.02.2020 21:49 |
It's a interview with kash and Phoebe on utube answering a q and a for fans it's quite nice. |
doughnut 17.02.2020 18:10 |
Amidds here is the link link I don't really know much about Quora or how it works. think i'll stay well away. Phoebe did comment about 'squatters rights' but I am sure the three men would not have gone down this road. I don't think we will ever know the real truth but I am suspicious of the reasons given by Peter. He gave an interview yesterday and said that things said about Mary aren't true as Freddie made sure they were all looked after. I wish he didn't back paddle as he was clearly unhappy about the situation when he wrote his book....sigh lol |
Amidds 18.02.2020 14:13 |
Thank for the link Doughnut - very telling response from Kash when asked about Mary! I have no doubt that the three would NOT have tried to exercise squatters rights. I think Phoebe mentioned it as the excuse behind the probate reasoning - as if probate wasn't a good excuse and that 'they' were actually fearful of 'squatting'. You are right though, the story has changed a bit over the years - probably for the reasons you (?) mentioned earlier that time heals all wounds. I mean, a lot of time has gone by and what would be the point to hold a grudge this many years later? What happened, happened. Definitely could've been handled better but takes a lot of energy to stay angry over it. I just hope that it's time and forgiveness on his part and not outside influence controlling (or attempting to) him! AAANNNNDDDDD back to the reading lol! Working through Peter's second book and Thor and Lee's second thread. The thread has brought back to mind Shaun Matthews - very unfortunate that he got chased away from here! He had some wonderful insight!!! Probably could've helped shed some light on the most recent topic. Damn, I went right back down that rabbit hole again, sorry! |
CHEVYMAN 18.02.2020 15:08 |
I dont think Shaun knows much more than Peter, Or the others as they were closer to Freddie himself and Garden lodge.He was just security after death for a bit and drinking buddy of Jims.Oh and he sold some of the Garden lodge videos Jim had given him of Freddie and Thor. And friends which is out there circulating today.Maybe he will write a book based on his time with Jim and that will give us a deeper look into their relationship maybe a little more on Freddie but I think we have some pretty first hand reliable sources out there right now and we cant forget we got Rudi too soon. |
Amidds 19.02.2020 15:25 |
Chevy - i don't think Shaun knows enough to write a book, he was just there and could give some clarity to the previous conversation. Unfortunately, it seems as if he was chased out of here so, I doubt we'll hear from him again. Sounds like Rudi is getting pretty close per his Instagram. His book will probably be very interesting regarding working with Freddie and the videos they made. He didn't appear in Peter and Jim's book in relation to a personal relationship but I know he has talked about being personal friends with Freddie in the past so, maybe some tidbits there as well. |
CHEVYMAN 19.02.2020 16:12 |
Amidds, yes I dont know too much about the Germany bunch but Rudi seems like a tender soul. |
Terri557 21.02.2020 22:25 |
Something that has me wondering.... Hello all In As It Began, it states that Freddie was living with Roger until November 1972. Freddie then moves in with Mary. I believe Freddie buys Stafford Terrace in 1977? Joe Fanelli lives there for a short time according to David Evans and David Minns book, This Was The Real Life. When does Freddie move out of Holland Rd? I’m trying to piece together the actual timeline that Freddie was living with Mary. Does anybody have any insight? |
CHEVYMAN 21.02.2020 23:45 |
Terri557, I'm not sure but I think he lived with her from 71 through 75.Then they separated in 76. |
CHEVYMAN 21.02.2020 23:49 |
Terri,557 , I think it was part of 72 through75 and separated in 76.I know he was dating rose rose in 71 when living with Roger .Then picked up with Mary in 71 then they moved in a apartment together in 72 through 75. |
CHEVYMAN 21.02.2020 23:52 |
Freddie just spent enough time with Mary till his fame hit and then the split seem to hit.But life long friends is a nice thing to have. |
Terri557 22.02.2020 00:01 |
Chevyman, I was surprised to see that it said November of 1972 as the date he was still with Roger and also that so many people say that Mary lived with Freddie for 6 or 7 years. . I know he’s was dating David Minns in summer of 1975. Just wondering where all these people are getting 6 even 7 years . Thanks. |
CHEVYMAN 22.02.2020 01:23 |
Terri, I think it was from end of 72 to 75 when Queen took off then they split.More like 4 years. |
CHEVYMAN 22.02.2020 01:25 |
I think he was still living with Mary when he and David were having dealings he was cheating on Mary ended things in December of 75. |
Amidds 22.02.2020 01:42 |
Terri, not sure if you’re gonna find exact dates....this is from Phoebes blog #84 regarding when Freddie lived on Holland Rd: As this is well before my time and I am certainly no Queen historian I would take a guess at late 1960s early 70s. Working backwards from Stafford Terrace where he moved to in 1975/6, he lived with Mary in Victoria Road after his stay on Holland. Not much help but all I could find other than what you already referenced. |
MyHumanZoo 22.02.2020 18:39 |
I could swear I saw a timeline for where he lived in one of the books I read....now I just have to jog the aging brain to remember where. I am out of town at the moment but will check my Queen library when I get home next week. |
CHEVYMAN 23.02.2020 18:54 |
Humanzoo, I font remember either I just know he was living with her in 75 while he was with David Minns and the info is probably in that book. |
CHEVYMAN 23.02.2020 18:57 |
Human zoo, I meant cant remember check David minns book he was living in apartment with her while having affair with David minns.It was that little apartment with one curtain on the bedroom because they couldnt afford curtains for the whole apartment so I'm guessing it was the first apartment. |
Katydyd5 24.02.2020 01:09 |
TUHI, thanks for your recommendation of the book The Great Believers. I finally finished it today. It's one of those books that I couldn't put down and at the same time I wanted to read it very slowly so it wouldn't be over. I got very attached to the characters and found the book shattering in many ways. It will stick with me for a long time. |
Thereuhaveit 24.02.2020 01:52 |
Katy, I'm so glad you enjoyed it--my reaction was exactly the same. In fact, I re-read it immediately as I didn't want it to end! Such wonderful, real characters, humanly graceful and flawed. |
CHEVYMAN 28.02.2020 20:42 |
Well guys I was watching the last video these are the days of our lives and I know this isnt book related but I got to thinking about alot of the comments that have been made about Thor and Lee's book taking a while to perfect watching this video it kinda clicked for me.We are just fans we dont have the same feelings or emotions that the the authors or writers do.Freddie had one shot to nail this last video with perfection and he did it.So I understand why the book would need the same treatment in Freddie's honor. |
CHEVYMAN 28.02.2020 20:51 |
Another thing that has been troubling me and I do want to discuss it .Its book related Rudi is writing a book as well which Is fine.But it really seems Peter Freestone is really involved with him I dont know if it's to promote his book or what.I know they are working on a project together for the fans.Peter to me isnt the man he used to be it seems .I cant put my finger on it but I smell a rat.Back when Peter wrote his books he had Freddie's best interest at hesrt.Now I'm not so sure what drives his train.Im sure Rudis book will be interesting but I dont know if it will have Freddie's heart. |
CHEVYMAN 14.03.2020 16:19 |
I guess I will continue with good ole Peter's book and all cakes and cooking he was required to bake looking back at pictures I dont think there is one pic phoebe isnt holding a cake or food item.He never spoke of being a chef except cooking for Freddie I know Joe Fanelli was an excellent cook.He did like his Garlic though so do I. I wonder is this how Peter picked up on cooking so well because he really in his book could throw on a great eat down party when he wanted too.I like the story when he talked about Christmas 3 turkeys was it and all the fixings Freddie made sure everybody had a family and a gift. |
MyHumanZoo 17.03.2020 15:24 |
So while most people are staying home, what are you reading now? I had a break of time and was reading a few real life crime books (my other passion), I’m thinking about maybe going back to Peter Hince’s book again. Any takers? |
Katydyd5 17.03.2020 16:08 |
Hi MHZ. I probably read a book a week, and right now I"m reading The Bookshop of the Brokenhearted. I like real life crime books too, but I'll read almost anything. I tend to prefer books by people like Jeffery Deaver or Stephen King among others. I'd be open to reading the Hince book again if others want to take a go at that. |
CHEVYMAN 17.03.2020 22:29 |
I'm gonna continue with Peter I do want to know who taught him to cook so well my human zoo. |
CHEVYMAN 17.03.2020 22:34 |
Crime books are so predictable they bore me stiff they are like a good horror film.Stephen King is good but is a little out dated .Can you still buy his books is he even still publishing or alive.I guess he is a good 80s writer but we got so many newcomers he has to be at least 90. |
CHEVYMAN 17.03.2020 22:36 |
Mhz, Peter hince is great! |
Katydyd5 17.03.2020 23:14 |
MHZ, can you tell me the true crime writers you like? I'm feeling really trapped in the house and would like some new ideas. Sorry for the double post. I just blanked out the repeat post. |
Katydyd5 17.03.2020 23:15 |
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CHEVYMAN 17.03.2020 23:39 |
Mhz, I do like books about true life crime especially books about serial killers and social paths like Ted Bundy Charles Manson to name a few. |
CHEVYMAN 17.03.2020 23:43 |
Jeffrey Dahmer is a good one all those men he was able to manipulate noone even suspected he was killing theses guys. He was a real twisted freak.One man even got away and he was able to convince the cops that he was his boyfriend and he brought him back to his apartment and finished killing him.Thats true crime |
Saint Jiub 18.03.2020 00:26 |
Unbeknownst to me, John Gacy signed my high school yearbook with his initials in 1979. ;) |
Katydyd5 18.03.2020 02:05 |
Saint Jiub, ewwwwwwww……………...I'm one of those people who doesn't like clowns. Wait a minute. You were kidding. The date is too late. I still don't like clowns. ;) Back to MHZ's original question, anyone up for the Hince book? |
Saint Jiub 18.03.2020 03:28 |
Katydyd5 wrote: Saint Jiub, ewwwwwwww……………...I'm one of those people who doesn't like clowns. Wait a minute. You were kidding. The date is too late. I still don't like clowns. ;) Back to MHZ's original question, anyone up for the Hince book?It seems that Gacy was arrested in June 1978 ... Well ... someone initialed J.G. in my 1979 yearbook with the comment "Who's vandalizing the lockers?" The front and back inside covers of the yearbook conveniently had sketches of a row of lockers. Like me, my friend who initialed it had a warped sense of humor. |
Rainbow61 18.03.2020 04:11 |
I belong to a book club that meets once a month at our local public library. We always read a short selection from an anthology; usually classic fiction and non-fiction works...the kind of books I would not pick up on my own, but am happy to have an introduction to. Each story has questions that accompany it and we discuss those questions as a group. When I say "group" I should probably clarify...this "Great Books" club had about 20 participants in its heyday, but we have now dwindled down to a "group" of just 3. We are the stalwarts! This is my 20th year in the club. Katydyd...One book a week. That is impressive! I don't read as much now as I did when I was a child. I just don't seem to have the time anymore...or I should probably say, I don't MAKE the time anymore. Mostly I have been a non-fiction reader. I particularly love American History. For a long time I was heavily into reading about the Civil War. (and visiting Civil War sites) MyHumanZoo...Will try to follow along if everyone reads Peter Hince's book. I read it when it first came out and thought it was fairly well done. I do have a couple other books that are in-progress at the moment. It's interesting how diverse everyone's reading interests are. I have read very few true crime stories, but the ones I read I quite enjoyed. Joe McGinniss' "Fatal Vision" comes to mind. The most recent book I read was "The Great Believers" by Rebecca Makkai. Thanks Thereuhaveit for the recommendation. I just finished it this past weekend. I'm curious everyone...did you have a favorite author as a child? I was completely engrossed in the Laura Ingalls Wilder stories and have reread them many times. I still consider her my favorite author. Nancy Drew was also a favorite. Oldies but goodies! |
CHEVYMAN 18.03.2020 07:52 |
Saint juib, Wow Gacy signed your year book .Didnt he kill men as well like Dahmer? |
CHEVYMAN 18.03.2020 08:03 |
Rainbow, No I dont care for the Laura ingalls wilder books I got some of them handed down from my grandmother.I do like the true crime books no mystery or make believe kinda reading.I dont know who wrote it but I love the book helter skelter the book was about the killing of the actress Sharon Tate. Charles Manson fascinates me how the man was able to get some ordinary people to do those gruesome crimes for him and came out with clean hands.Mind control and alot of drugs I guess.Great movie as well.I believe the prosecuting attorney wrote the book. |
CHEVYMAN 18.03.2020 08:17 |
Manson front from what I know from some family members of mine loved the beatles.Some of my aunts chapter were the Hells Angel's and hung out with them for awhile.My aunts bf said he sure could sing and play the quitar. |
MyHumanZoo 18.03.2020 14:32 |
I’m going to dive back into the Hince book, I recall liking it...save for his bragging about all the girls he was with! I will try and ignore that part. As for true crime, the only specific author I like is Vincent Bugliosi...who was the author of Helter Skelter and several other books on crimes and legal cases. Usually I like to read the books of those close to a particular case, and I like to read several different books to get differing views, and then kind of decide reality from that. The one I was recently into was Chris Watts, a young guy from Colorado who supposedly had the perfect life, a pregnant wife and 2 young daughters, but then had an affair and killed his family. What was really interesting was discovering a psychologist on YouTube that went through his entire police interview and confession and analyzed all his statements and how they are classical covert narcissistic. I have never been much into psychology so it fascinated me how accurate it was. And I discovered there are many narcissists around....especially on this site! Lol! (None I’ve seen in this thread...thankfully!). I don’t read many fiction crime books because I find them kind of formulaic a lot of the time, but I do mix them in now and then. When I was a kid I read like crazy, but mostly books on horses. My favorite was the William Farley series on The Black Stallion, I read those many times. |
MyHumanZoo 18.03.2020 14:36 |
Funny Chevyman...I didn’t see your comment on Helter Skelter until after I posted! I also read Vincent’s books on OJ Simpson and JFK. I think I read others but can’t remember them all now. He had a brilliant legal mind...he is one I would have loved to sit and talk with! |
Katydyd5 18.03.2020 15:51 |
MHZ, I'll start the Hince book again once I finish my current book. Hopefully some others will join in. I've read Bugliosi too, including all three books you mentioned. And as a kid I read all the time. No favorite authors but I always had a book going. |
CHEVYMAN 18.03.2020 17:47 |
MHZ, Yes he put that monster away he also gave Linda Kasabian a hell of a deal for her testimony.He has since passed away but I think he attended all their parole hearings.Manson died in prison in his 80s .One of the girls Susan Atkins had brain cancer and they wouldnt release her to die.They are all are well in their late 60s early 70s by now just 21 and under when the crimes took place.It shocked the world right.It was before my time but I had family members that were affiliated with the family.They ran drugs and guns for my family's people.I have heard some tales dont know if they are true my aunt is in her 70s too.She told me they even gave their children drugs.Thats insane.So many children were in protective custody when they raided that ranch.My family broke ties way before all that they were too crazy for even them. |
MyHumanZoo 19.03.2020 15:15 |
I believe Manson just died a couple of years ago, it wasn’t in the 80s. But it is crazy what they all were doing. I can’t believe your family knew them Chevyman, kind of scary to think what they could have seen if they hadn’t distanced themselves! I often wonder if Bugliosi could have gotten that conviction now, the legal system is so different and seems to be less able to put away criminals than it used to be. But Bugliosi was so clever, I suppose he just would have adjusted his arguments accordingly. |
MyHumanZoo 19.03.2020 15:54 |
And FYI for those reading, the Peter Hince book is called “Queen Unseen”, Hince was Freddie’s roadie (and John’s as well) and so has the view of the band from behind the stage. |
stevendabudgie 20.03.2020 06:57 |
@Chevyman @MyHumanZoo @Katydy5 In recent years new research has uncovered new Information raising doubts about Bugliosis version. I have read neither Bugliosi's nor alternative reseachers' books, but I read a very informational review. link |
CHEVYMAN 20.03.2020 12:34 |
Thanks Steven it's very sad one of the victims was pregnant. |
Amidds 20.03.2020 14:21 |
Wow, there's life on the book thread again, AWESOME! I used to read every true life crime book available years ago, think it was the Psych major in me. Got away from it a few years ago when I decided I needed more positivity in my life. Same with Stephen King. However, on my trip to Canada last summer, we flew in and out of Maine and had some time so we drove by Stephen King's house because I used to be such a fan. Took some pics and it looks like a home he would prob live in with fencing that looks like spider webs. Pretty cool. I'm up for reading Peter Hince's book with y'all! I thought it was very interesting and liked the different perspective Peter gave on Freddie. He didn't seem to be too "careful" when reciting some stories, which was nice. |
Katydyd5 20.03.2020 16:10 |
I know Amidds, I was so excited to see action on the book thread! Only one brief comment on Stephen King. I've always liked his books because I think he is a master at character development. I tend to get involved and truly care about them, but I've also learned over the years that the more I like the character, the more likely Stephen is to kill them off. I still read everything he publishes, but I do get impatient with the fact that he always seems to go to what I think of Woo Woo Land at the end: Science fiction. Not a genre I like. Isn't that fence around his home fantastic? And I like the house too and could easily live in a place like that. I just finished the novel I was reading so I'll start Queen Unseen now. Hope others join us! |
MyHumanZoo 20.03.2020 18:13 |
Thanks for the link Steven, I skimmed it and will read in depth later. It has been a few years since I read those books, but from skimming it looks like some of those involved have changed their stories as time goes by...and we know that the more time that passes the less accurate the memories! Not saying that they didn’t revise things to be more accurate, but it is just hard to know what the actual truth is....the earlier story or the later? And then, I think the article author is also applying more current legal positions to what was happening and you can’t really do that...which goes back to my statement that I wonder if VB would have successfully prosecuted Manson in today’s court system? Not likely, in my opinion. VB had such a passion for doing the right thing, I guess it could have been an elaborate front but to me it seemed genuine, so I have a hard time believing he would use malice towards witnesses and such, as the article implies. When it comes to JFK books, I have read a ton and who knows what is right and what happened for real? There are so many theories and “facts” on it that honestly I don’t believe any of them. I find it hard to believe that there can be so many views on it. Your article probably had nothing to do with that but I just threw it in for fun, lol! On the Stephen King topic, for some reason I never liked his stuff. To me they seemed a little too “out there”, so I stopped trying them. I tend towards non-fiction in books anyway, so when an author gets away from something that could realistically happen, I check out, I think. |
CHEVYMAN 21.03.2020 02:39 |
Mhz, I couldnt get get into Stephen king either I however remembered another one about the Menendez brothers that killed their parents that was another good book I have to purchase the Peter hince book do you go on Amazon to get it? |
MyHumanZoo 21.03.2020 14:59 |
I have the Peter Hince book on Kindle, so I’m not sure if Amazon has the paper copy. That Menendez case was a weird one too, I had forgotten about that. I’ve watched a few documentaries on it but never read anything. |
stevendabudgie 22.03.2020 15:22 |
@Chevyman Yes, it is sad. Did your aunt share her stories with journalists or Investigators? One alternative Theory is that the Manson murders were not About Helter skelter, but about a drug deal gone awry. . @MyHumanZoo I do not know enough About VB to make a judgement About his character or intentions. Sometimes prosecutors are firmly convinced of the defendant's guilt, but think they do not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt. So what do they do? Turn a key witness, hire a forensic expert partial to your cause etc. Such prosecutors do not tamper out of malice, but good intentions. I read a couple of JFK books. I know that VB was close Friends with CIA Agent David Atlee Phillips who handled Information on Oswald before the assassination. I read a couple of Stephen King's books in my youth, but lost interest in him as a writer many years ago. I try to read the "classics" and non-fiction books. I regularly read books in English to keep my language skills fresh. In recent months I read "The Gilded Age" co-written by Mark Twain and Freeman Dyson's "The Scientist as Rebel" in English. |
CHEVYMAN 22.03.2020 21:45 |
Steven, I dont think my family did they were outlaws themselves apart of the notorious gang in the 50s and 60s Hells Angel's so they knew what family meant and no snitches were allowed in their group either.I can remember as a kid them beating the hell of a guy because they heard that he snitched somebody off while he was in jail.My family on my dad side are some rough characters they wouldnt hesitate to put somebody's head in a box in the day.But on the other hand when you were family you would always be family no matter what or who you were still with.My mom left my dad and picked up with another guy in the club and she still was family till the day she died still property of the Hells Angels. |
CHEVYMAN 22.03.2020 22:00 |
My mom met my Dad when she was 14 in 1972 she was a dancer my grandfather was a strict catholic man and so he put her out.She started dancing to support herself my dad was a hells Angel's biker and bikers always hang out where the girls are and he picked her up.So then he married her and took her to redbird a Indian compound and his home town I was born in 1973 she Dutched him 1979after the birth of my brother she rode off with another brother and became his old lady and that's all she wrote.We went to live with our strict catholic grandparents rarely seeing our parents but I guess it was for the best.I got to thinking alot about those Manson children and they were raised alot like me in those early years except my parents didnt give me drugs but they used plenty in front of me and I witnessed alot of sexual activity among adults of all genders at a young age.As far as Helter Skelter I think Charlie Manson wanted a record deal with one of the beach boys that was supposed to help him and he changed his mind and moved from the house.Sharon state moved in the house that same house so Charlie got hatred for all the rich establishment and went on that killing spree.Thats what's behind the name Helter Skelter. |
Katydyd5 23.03.2020 00:19 |
Stephen, your English is excellent! I always forget that it is a second language for you. I like to escape into fiction, but I also like non-fiction. I recently read The Pioneers by David McCullough and learned so much about the history of my state that was new for me in spite of having taught a small unit on early pioneers every year of my career. . I always have a book going. I can't help myself...…...one more thing about Stephen King. I recently gave my entire collection of his books to Good Will. The young man who helped me unload my donations for the day was thrilled. : ) King is only one of my many favorite authors,one of my absolute favorites being Pat Conroy. I do think King's Stand By Me and Shawshank Redemption are brilliant, both the books and the movies. If I'm cruising through the channels and I come upon either of those, or The Green Mile, I stop and watch even though I've seen them all many times. Is anyone working through the Hince book? As always happens I'm finding new information that I can relate to as my knowledge base on Queen increases. I'm ready to start discussion any time. |
CHEVYMAN 23.03.2020 03:16 |
No katydyd, I think my most people in thev60s the mad man fascinates them .But hince has an excellent book indeed. |
CHEVYMAN 23.03.2020 03:40 |
I meant to say Charles Manson still fascinates people today.It doesnt take much to open up a discussion on that Trippy Hippy. |
CHEVYMAN 23.03.2020 10:13 |
The song Helter Skelter was written by one of my favorite bands the beatles.Charles Manson loved the Beatles Qouted by Vincient during Charlie's trial.It was his rise up against the world who had rejected him the rich and famous he called this Helter Skelter. |
MyHumanZoo 23.03.2020 17:05 |
That's a good point Steven, it is hard to know what anyone would do (even prosecutors) as they go for a conviction. The good part of me thinks that everyone is pure and would never do something like that....but the realist in my knows that those things do happen! Katyd….I had planned on starting the Hince book this past weekend but ended up having to watch my granddaughters (which is all-consuming!) so I didn't get to do it. I'll be diving in today. |
Katydyd5 23.03.2020 23:09 |
MHZ I'm about half way through but in no hurry. I have so much time to read now, but for some reason I can't focus for long. |
MyHumanZoo 25.03.2020 00:13 |
I’m about halfway through it now too, Katyd. What are your thoughts on it? What strikes me from his book is just how moody and diva-like he describes Freddie. So many people have said Freddie wasn’t that way very much, and that Freddie was the ultimate professional and shy. But the moods and fits Hince describes seems much harder to deal with. I get that he says Freddie was professional in always coming through and giving the best performance that he could, but more in general he saw Freddie as a diva. I suppose everyone saw a different side of Freddie at different times, and maybe this behavior was strictly during concerts. What is also interesting is how little he mentions Roger Taylor. He talks a lot about John and Brian, but almost nothing (at least so far) about interaction with Roger. I wonder why that is? |
Katydyd5 25.03.2020 02:24 |
MHZ, this is not your first time to read the book is it? The first time I read it I wasn't even sure Hince liked Freddie. I think now that he's almost affectionate in describing the diva behavior. I can almost visualize him shaking his head ruefully as he tells about some of Freddie's antics. I think Freddie must have been very difficult before and during a performance because he expected perfection from everyone around him, including himself. I wonder if those around Freddie simply accepted the behavior as part of his preparation and more or less ignored as much of it as they could. . I suspect he would have liked Hince very much since he stood up to the behavior and wasn't a yes man. The one story that does disturb me is the physical violence following the failure of the pyrotechnics during one show. Have you reached that section yet? I'm thinking the chapter might have been called Days of Doom. I want to say a bit more about that incident but I don't want it to be a spoiler if you are reading the book for the first time. Next time I post I'll have the book with me so I can reference a page. I'll have to pay more attention to mentions of Roger. It makes sense that he would talk about John since he was roadie to both Freddie and John but you've given me something to look for that intrigues me. |
CHEVYMAN 25.03.2020 14:14 |
Mhz, I think that's it exactly everyone saw different sides of Freddie and maybe that's the way he liked it so nobody really knew him.I laugh to myself he was a typical Indian man they are loners very shy in nature until you piss them off and then wow you better watch out they can act out.I think this is what hince may be referring too when he talks about fits and him being a diva just in simple terms what everyone strives for perfection.We cant forget Freddie was an artist and when an artist sees a smudge in their work it can drive them mad. |
CHEVYMAN 25.03.2020 16:54 |
Mhz, Have you ever been to an art museum with paintings imagine one painting there hanging and how many times that artist destroyed that painting till he captured it's TRUE purpose.A picture is supposed to tell a story by looking at it .It captures a subject or subjects in motion in the paintings as if you could actually see the events happening.I dont want to embarrass anyone but I had a friend that traveled to Newyork to look at some rather umm graffic nude Male art in motion I guess that would be a good way to put it.This artist captured these sex scenes beautifully as if the viewer was actually there and it was happening before their eyes.Now that's art.Each scene in each position was beautifully displayed with the viewers curiosity in mind it definately made you leave wondering what and how the hell lol.Thats kind of my point with writing i guess it's a art to perfection. |
MyHumanZoo 25.03.2020 17:55 |
I have read the book before, but I didn’t recall how Hince came off when he described Freddie’s behavior, so it kind of shocked me again. The thing about Hince is that he is incredibly sarcastic...and I think he enjoys his own sarcasm as much or more than anyone else! So he loves putting in all these dramatic descriptions and his own sarcastic response to them. He is obviously a clever guy, and I’m sure he really liked and admired Freddie. But it’s hard to know whether he overdramatizing Freddie’s actions just for the humorous effect or not. I feel like there is a lot of that going on though. I haven’t gotten to that chapter on the bit of violence yet, that chapter is actually where I stopped yesterday. I’ll read it today and then maybe we can discuss. I do get the perfectionism of artists Chevy, and I think that Freddie wanted everything to be “perfect” every time. So I can see how it would affect him and how he could get emotional about performances and getting them right. I’d just like to know if Hince makes it a little more over the top in his descriptions. And maybe even over the top isn’t the right way to put it, I almost feel like Hince really over-emphasizes the (for lack of a better word) “gayness” of how Freddie acted. That’s kind of how it comes off to me...are any of you getting that feeling? |
CHEVYMAN 25.03.2020 19:25 |
Mhz, Yes I do get that feeling about hince to a certain extent on stage Freddie was so different from off stage Freddie.I do think Hince over dramatized Freddie s mannerisms to the extreme for his readers purposes.However, have you seen the garden lodge tapes ?The first time I seen those it was like looking at another person.I literally thought he was acting like that for a minute.As I began to watch I saw this beautiful man and kind soul unfold and there he was it was amazing.That guy was Freddie with all those little extras that made him exactly who he was meant to be.Im getting off subject but maybe he let his roadies and crew see part of this side of him too before the macho man strutted on stage and became Freddie Mercury. |
CHEVYMAN 25.03.2020 19:35 |
MHZ, Hince does have an arrogance about him too that I dont care for.Im having to wing it somebody has my book.It seems to me so many of these writers paint a pretty picture of themselves and paint Freddie sometimes as a fit throwing toddler at times.So I dont read or take to heart what to many of them say they change their story over the years.I would and will read Thor and Lee's book because their story hasn't changed they didnt paint themselves in Neverland or in a perfect world or change their story.They admitted they all had times when they partied and were human.They never once put Freddie down so I say their book is worth checking out for sure.Rudi I dont know I dont care too much about the German years. |
CHEVYMAN 25.03.2020 19:40 |
Mhz, one more thing I think hince is the one that made the sarcastic remark about Freddie's gay friends too.You may ask Katydyd on that one she might remember more.I think he was kind of an ass. |
Katydyd5 26.03.2020 01:33 |
MHZ, I've never been able to figure out how to quote a previous poster, but I want to give it another try. Forgive me if we end up with a blank post. |
Katydyd5 26.03.2020 01:45 |
MyHumanZoo wrote: I have read the book before, but I didn’t recall how Hince came off when he described Freddie’s behavior, so it kind of shocked me again. The thing about Hince is that he is incredibly sarcastic...and I think he enjoys his own sarcasm as much or more than anyone else! So he loves putting in all these dramatic descriptions and his own sarcastic response to them. He is obviously a clever guy, and I’m sure he really liked and admired Freddie. But it’s hard to know whether he overdramatizing Freddie’s actions just for the humorous effect or not. I feel like there is a lot of that going on though. I do get the perfectionism of artists Chevy, and I think that Freddie wanted everything to be “perfect” every time. So I can see how it would affect him and how he could get emotional about performances and getting them right. I’d just like to know if Hince makes it a little more over the top in his descriptions. And maybe even over the top isn’t the right way to put it, I almost feel like Hince really over-emphasizes the (for lack of a better word) “gayness” of how Freddie acted. That’s kind of how it comes off to me...are any of you getting that feeling?I actually think this is going to work!! I do think Hince has an odd sense of humor, very droll and lots of sarcasm. I also think he really appreciates himself, but that's not all bad. It just makes it a bit harder for me to know if he's exaggerating for humor or effect, or if things happened exactly as he described. I think this is my third time through the book and I find a lot of what he says pretty funny this time. The description of trying to get a set list out of Freddie before a concert made me laugh. I'd love to have seen Freddie's face when Ratty got tired of things and just told him they could play a few Rolling Stones songs if he wouldn't give him a list. However, I wanted to reply to your question about the over-emphasis on Freddie's sexuality. Or rather tell you that I need to think on that a bit longer. At first I wondered if that was due to the date the book was published, but it came out in 2011, so I don't think that has anything to do with it. At that point it was no longer unique to be gay Maybe it's more a reflection of the times Ratty ( I can't call him Peter. It doesn't fit) is describing. It's almost as if he's showing us how accepting he and the others were of Freddie and his choices, while at the same time maintaining an us/them sort of aura. Not sure...……………………. |
Katydyd5 26.03.2020 01:52 |
One of the things that does annoy me in this book is that Ratty tells some stories that seem to be untrue to one degree or another. I think I am way ahead of you in the book so maybe I should hold off, but I'll go with one example. On page 190 Ratty is describing the famous Scrabble games. He describes Freddie as being astounded when the word "lacquers" was played because it was such a high point word. Then he says he was the one who came up with that word. Uh...……..not according to Brian and Roger in an interview. They are so explicit with details that I tend to believe their version. link |
The Real Wizard 26.03.2020 01:56 |
Katydyd5 wrote: MHZ, I've never been able to figure out how to quote a previous poster, but I want to give it another try. Forgive me if we end up with a blank post.See attached photo. Mouse over a bit to the right of the time of the post you're quoting - there are spots for edit, reply, and quote, but the icons haven't shown up for years because this forum is so poorly designed/maintained. |
Katydyd5 26.03.2020 02:27 |
Thanks Wizard! I've always been able to edit, but for some reason just couldn't figure out the quote feature. I've got it now! |
CHEVYMAN 26.03.2020 21:41 |
Yes Ratty is a bit of a people pleaser and a story teller.You made a good and valid point katy.I too believe Roger and Brian version of the scrabble game it was their pass time on their long drives on those touring travels.It became a very passionate competion between the four of them. |
MyHumanZoo 27.03.2020 00:08 |
Nice job with the quotes, Katyd! And thank you Wizard....I finally decided to open this on my laptop and I can see the options to the right of the post now. They do not show up on my ipad no matter how you try it, I suppose the lack of a cursor is the problem. Darn Steve Jobs! ; ) I do agree with Ratty's exaggeration, I am with you on the explanation of the Scrabble....another that came to mind as I was reading was the story of Freddie meeting Sid Vicious in the studio....I've heard many different accounts of that and they all say Freddie called him Simon Ferocious (or similar) and got the better of him. Ratty says Freddie grabbed Sid by the collar and threw him out. I don't recall anyone else saying that Freddie got physical with Sid like that. Even in Freddie's own account of it in Brook's book "In His Own Words" Freddie doesn't talk about throwing him out. I think Hince is actually quite funny, I enjoy the sarcasm for the most part. I almost wonder if Hince didn't have more of a homophobic look at life when he was a roadie, due to the times, really. Back then it really would have been something different for the relatively "macho" roadie type of guy to be accepting of a gay man. But it seems like through working with Freddie he probably gained a respect and liking for him, and in the years since Hince has become more accepting. I suppose it's hard to write an accounting of those times from today's perspective, maybe? I don't feel like I'm describing it very well. Forgive my rambling! I am through the chapter that you had mentioned Katy...so if you want to discuss it we can. I am wondering if the exaggeration is at work in that tale? |
MyHumanZoo 27.03.2020 00:13 |
I forgot to mention that I was wondering if the exaggeration was one of the things that caused Brian to be irritated with Ratty? I remember hearing that Brian was pretty upset with Ratty for things he had said, but I did not hear directly what Brian said specifically. If anyone has any references as to what Brian said I would love a link. |
CHEVYMAN 27.03.2020 04:56 |
Mhz, I think Ratty as with many men of those times didnt see gay men as their equal which is crazy to me to think about now . Because I think men are men to me I'm glad I dont see the world through a one sided glass.Every man to me puts his Jean's on the same way as any other man.But yes he might be a bit homophobic you would be surprised how many people are even today.Many of them have gay friends.Im sure Brian And Roger covered Freddie's sexuality alot as well through the years like Brian telling the media their were girls in Freddie's hotel room well if there were they must of been playing scrabble it sure wasnt spin the bottle.So I think Rattys tall tales pissed them off they loved Freddie.I will go as far to say on the road most of the time I bet most of his company in his hotel room was hot and male.Good for him the man made people smile for a living why couldnt he have a few minutes of pleasure for himself and why should it matter who gave it to him.Thats what all these different books have eventually talk about is who he slept with I just think he thought he gave the world his talent why should he give them his privacy.Rattys stories are something else though. |
CHEVYMAN 27.03.2020 05:09 |
I have 2 gay Male friends and from what I understand they like everything about the Male body.They liked to look at other males spend their time with other males not females.So in Freddie's down time I bet Ratty not being into Freddie's scene wouldnt hang out with him too much even though he was a guy.i dont think Freddie spent time with the boys in the band outside music they had different interest.Could you see Brian going in a all guy bar.He would be up against the wall .I was watching a tour of theirs and Freddie was down on his knees and trying to kiss Brian's Guaitar and Brian jumped back quickly and didnt miss a beat.I think he got scared Freddie was trying to go down below lol. |
Katydyd5 27.03.2020 15:06 |
MHZ, I too saw the difference in the Sid Vicious stories and attributed it to Ratty's apparent habit of embellishment. I think the same thing happens on page 193 where he talks about the recording of CLTCL. According to Ratty after writing the song, Freddie rushed to the studio and immediately called the band together to record the song. Ok, well I've always heard that Freddie did rush to the studio, but worked alone with Mack because he wanted to get the ideas down before Brian got there and began to mess with things. Roger and John then heard it, liked it, and Brian was left to accept it the way it was. We've talked about altered memories before on this thread. (I think) As time passes people tend to remember things differently. Even people who were at the same event will see it differently. I don't think Ratty's playing with the facts as we think we know them is exactly a negative. It does make me question some of his stories, but in the end, he really IS a great storyteller. I like him too and I appreciate his sense of humor. As for Brian and Ratty, I did some Googling this morning and can find nothing definitive, only opinions from fans. Brian can be a polarizing figure on these forums so I tend to take most everything said about him with a grain of salt. I would be interested in seeing a factual source too. I understood what you were saying about Hince's experiences with Freddie. I suspect that Freddie was possibly the first gay man Ratty really got to know. I always find it interesting when people say they don't know any one who is gay. I want to say "of course you do, you just don't know it". I think that might have applied to the tough street kid Ratty tends to portray himself as, he simply didn't know he knew any gay people. It's so obvious in the book that he came to care deeply for Freddie, and I have to hope it opened his horizons. I'm being careful here because I know this is a possible hot button topic for people. |
Katydyd5 27.03.2020 15:24 |
The Indianapolis concert, page 153. I spent some time looking for the Indianapolis concert on YouTube but couldn't find what I was looking for. Since I currently have time on my hands, I may play around with that again later and also with some of the Queen concert sites. I have seen videos of concerts where Freddie is very destructive, using the mic almost as a sledge hammer, pushing speakers over, etc. I don't know if that footage is all from one concert or if it occurred more than once. I've never been a fan of musicians destroying equipment. But what I found disturbing is that Ratty says that not only did Freddie use his mic to pound the offending pyro equipment, but also to physically pound Ratty. We all know Freddie had a temper, and I understand and accept that. But I have trouble with physical assault. In the story, Ratty says Freddie tried to deny that contact when they were all called to Gerry Stickells office, causing Ratty to walk out. Other roadies banded with him, all planning to quit. Apparently Brian and Roger tried to smooth things over to no avail. Even Paul Prenter tried to beg/bribe Ratty to stay.. In the end it blew over because they had a few days off and were able to cool down emotions. But here's the second somewhat disturbing thing for me. Ratty says Freddie came to the next sound check, unusual for him at that time, and apologized to all involved, EXCEPT Ratty. Personally I think Ratty should have been the first person approached. Freddie did "apologize" to him in the form of funny comments, winks, etc but I find that type of apology almost cowardly. This brings me to thinking about how Freddie avoided conflict and often had others do his dirty work. Does the fact that he never personally approached Ratty mean that maybe Ratty was more important to him than the others? Was he more ashamed of his own actions in this case? I think he knew he needed Ratty. Was he afraid that Ratty might be the one person who would not forgive him? I do think there is some insecurity in Freddie, and being unable to apologize to this man who was so important to his onstage success might be an example of that. Thoughts? |
Katydyd5 27.03.2020 15:34 |
I hope you can see this link. It's very short, but shows some on-stage mic issues. You don't get to see much of Freddie's face, but even in these quick glimpses, you can see the annoyance. I wouldn't want to have been Ratty or the sound techs after this show. link |
MyHumanZoo 28.03.2020 16:36 |
I must start by saying that I can’t believe this incident took place at an Indianapolis concert, that is only 2 hours away from me. I would have been too young to go to that one...but it makes me feel bad that Queen had a bad experience in my state! Your view on this is interesting Katyd, I took it a bit differently. I’m going to go back and read that chapter again after I write this, because I may have read too quickly and not gotten things thoroughly. I know Ratty says that Freddie hit him in his fit about the microphone, and maybe Freddie did. But there were multiple malfunctions of equipment/sound, I thought, enough for Ratty to say that all of the guys trashed stuff...John flung his bass and Roger destroyed his drums. The meeting afterwards in my reading was more focused on all the staff, and them being mad at being treated badly when things weren’t all their fault. I know Ratty says he brought up Freddie hitting him, but I didn’t get that the walkout was in solidarity with Ratty over being hit, it was more at the staff being unhappy with the band in general at their treatment. Maybe I read my own interpretation into it though, which is why I’ll read it again. My thought on Ratty specifically is this....due to his exaggeration tendency, I think Freddie was beating up the mikes, the speaker, whatever and probably accidentally caught Ratty in the process (it’s dark and Ratty is crouching trying not to be seen by the crowd)...Freddie probably never even knew he made contact with Ratty, which is why Freddie denied it, and subsequently never apologized directly to Ratty for it (if he really even DID make contact with Ratty, I have my doubts on that). My real thought is that maybe Ratty caught a glancing blow, never really mentioned it in the meeting, and made up the winks and nods as Freddie’s “apology”. Although I will say, I do agree with you Katyd, that with Freddie’s avoidance of conflict I can imagine him never directly apologizing if in fact he did hurt someone like that. So that’s my read...now I’m off to go through that chapter again and to pay close attention! : ) |
MyHumanZoo 28.03.2020 16:53 |
I did a quick search on Queenzone to see about the Brian and Ratty feud...apparently Brian said Ratty’s book was “A warped view by a disgruntled ex roadie” on Twitter. I’ll do some more looking on that subject. |
Katydyd5 28.03.2020 17:47 |
MHZ I won’t be able to get back until later tonight, but wanted to tell you your interpretation was correct. The whole band was destructive, not just Freddie.the meeting afterwards was with the whole staff. I knew that, but didn’t express it well. More later...... I didn’t want you to take the time to reread the chapter when you are correct. Again, more later..... |
CHEVYMAN 28.03.2020 23:12 |
Mhz, yep I just didnt really ever care for too much he is too much of a drama Queen himself. |
Katydyd5 28.03.2020 23:35 |
Steven, I've read several books on the Civil War and live close to many famous sites I have been able to visit. It's a fascinating time in American History. One really interesting non-fic book I read was Indianapolis. the story of the ship that was sunk resulting in the huge loss of life due to the fact that it was on a secret mission and the survivors weren't found for days. The loss of life was due to shark attacks. My interest in the mission of the Indianapolis first occurred while watching the movie Jaws. : ) I have to admit though that I do prefer fiction because it serves as kind of an escape for me. |
Katydyd5 29.03.2020 00:02 |
MHZ, I remember some of the discussions on QZ about Brian and Ratty and I take those with a grain of salt. I do believe Brian might have been negative but I'd like to see it for myself in a direct quote from Brian.. I've read that Brian doesn't read Queen books so he probably didn't read it, but who knows. I really like Brian so I don't want to go too deeply into this topic because it is a bit of a hot button and I don't want to start anything. Back to the Indy concert. I'm about two hours east of Indianapolis, and though we lived in this area at the time, I was too busy with young babies at home to be thinking of concerts. I could kick myself now. You have an interesting interpretation of the physical aspect of Freddie's behavior and your impressions could be correct. I'd rather think it was an accident if it happened, but we do know that Freddie was capable of being physical when he was angry. David Minns shares several examples in the Minns/Evans book. Either way, accident or intention, I do think it caused at least a temporary rift between Freddie and Ratty. Ratty states that Freddie asked Ratty in the meeting to lift his shirt and show the marks if he really had hit him. People started walking out, quitting, some band members and others tried to make peace and it took a few days apart to heal the wounds. I think I was approaching the story more from my personal interest in behaviors and their motivations. I took the incident at face value, but I was more interested in the apology aspect of things relating to Freddie's well known avoidance of conflict. I was trying to peel some psychological layers of Freddie's need to avoid difficult situations. Freddie's avoidance of difficult personal situations comes up again on page 304. Are you there yet? |
CHEVYMAN 29.03.2020 00:26 |
Freddie avoided things to an extent then that little Indian came out ready to rumble anyone agree.He would tell someone to fuckoff in a minute.This avoidance of conflict that authors talk about so much is not such a avoidance of conflict but a Indians way they are gentle passive they are peacemakers.These are the values he was raised with they were apart of him.Think of all the nasty things the media has said about Freddie his mom never once lost her temper and treated any media with disrespect only kindness. |
CHEVYMAN 29.03.2020 00:34 |
Brian doesnt read Queen books but even better he was part of the band and Ratty was the roadie and I think that will work for me.Brians a pretty level headed guy and loved Freddie dearly but would admit if Freddie was being an ass.Roger wouldnt say much so I would go with Brian without a quote anyday. |
Katydyd5 29.03.2020 00:58 |
Steven,, one more thing. A lot of my interest in non-fiction books comes as a result of reading fiction, and wanting to know more. Several years ago I read "Widow of the South" and became fascinated by Carrie McGavock. link This is a Civil War site that would be a long weekend trip from my house and I hope to visit it someday. |
CHEVYMAN 29.03.2020 01:52 |
Mhz, Thanks for doing research my eyes wont let me read for too long without going blurry thanks.You got me curious. |
CHEVYMAN 29.03.2020 01:59 |
Mhz, That's me most of Queens concerts were in those 80s and I was too young so I have to talk to people that were old enough.I think I was old enough in 1990 but Freddie was already sick and had stopped touring.I turned 17 in June of 1990 .So I guess if their were concerts in 1989 I could've went .How old did you have to be I bet 18 since they werent in the US touring then.He passed when I was in my junior year in high school I still remember. |
MyHumanZoo 30.03.2020 00:33 |
The quote I put on supposedly was directly from Brian's Twitter, but I know what you mean Katyd. When I get some time I'll do some more research and try to find if Brian really said that. Personally, I love Brian and I don't really understand the hate he can get, it makes me sad. But I know that it is a hot button so I try to avoid it as much as I can too. I do think Freddie must have been capable of some physical violence, even outside of the Minn's incident, we know he threw things and broke mirrors, and it is a short walk from that to physical contact. It's so hard for me to think of Freddie not being able to apologize or acknowledge things he had done wrong, I so badly want to think of him as this sweet innocent person that would want to settle things with everyone. But there are so many instances of Freddie not confronting others when he was in the wrong or wanted to breakup with someone, I know that he's not that sweet person all the time. I'm not really sure which page I'm on yet, I have a Kindle so the page numbers are different, I think. It's ok to go ahead and mention things if you want, if I'm not caught up I will be shortly anyway. Katy, we must not be too far apart, I'm up not too far from Ft. Wayne. Another place Queen played and I didn't go to the concert, ugh! ; ) |
CHEVYMAN 30.03.2020 16:26 |
Hope everyone's day is going well and you all are holding it together.I pray for you guys working from home but at least it keeps your mind busy.Mhz books are very fitting for times like these.My Dr put in a referral because with my condition I need to see a pain specialist again .They usually want to evaluate you since I havent been to a pain specialist in more than a year but they said just come get the referral over the phone.They want to minimize Dr .visits.My counseling is by phone as well.Speaking of my counselor and Elton John i was talking to him about how much I adored him.He said he saw him before he got rich and famous at a county fair in the state of Iowa .I thought that was pretty amazing. |
Katydyd5 31.03.2020 01:31 |
MHZ, I mentioned in an earlier post another time when Freddie avoided something unpleasant. It comes at the end of the book when Ratty has made the decision to leave the band and go into photography. He was not able to pin Freddie down so that he could tell him of his decision though he tried several times. Freddie would just brush him off and tell him they could talk later. Eventually it became clear that Freddie knew Ratty was leaving and they did talk very briefly. Freddie was supportive. I think Ratty makes a good point when he says Freddie tended to push aside unpleasant things in the hopes they might go away. There is a similar incident in Phoebe's book where Freddie can't bring himself to tell Phoebe of his diagnosis. Phoebe feels as if both Freddie and the others in the house are pushing him away and makes the decision to leave. That's what prompts Freddie to tell him t he truth and to ask him to stay. I think all of this is part of what I think of as Freddie's abandonment issues. I believe it was easier to avoid issues he found painful rather than to simply confront them. I've already said that the first time I read Queen Unseen I wasn't even sure that Ratty really liked Freddie. With each successive read I become more sure that they had a deep and meaningful friendship. I've always loved Ratty's very last line in the chapter prior to the postscript. : ) No spoiler from me. |
CHEVYMAN 31.03.2020 05:45 |
Like I tried to explain before Indians arent very open people and are not confrontational by nature especially fully bloods.I appreciate Ratty and phoebe's view on this matter but me knowing Indiams and being one all my life I think I will stick to my people on that one.Its the same with health matters when an Indian gets terminally I'll they tend to not discuss those matters.Indians unlike whites are extremely private people. |
CHEVYMAN 31.03.2020 05:53 |
Indiams like to suffer with illness in private they accept their fate.They leave their lives in the hands of the God for healing and the prayer warriors.Indians are a tough clan of people they have been since the beginning of time.As far as abandonment issues yeah I'm sure he had them but that didnt shape his decision making on these matters these values werent learned from school they apart of his heritage his being as a person. |
MyHumanZoo 31.03.2020 16:29 |
Katyd, I remember that from Phoebe’s book and also what Hince has said, plus I think a few other books have mentioned that Freddie didn’t do breaking up and other confrontations well and just avoided it. It’s an interesting characteristic from someone who is so caring and loyal to his friends, isn’t it? One would think that empathy would extend to confrontations and wanting to resolve thing easily too. The one relationship I can recall that he ended so impressively (and now of course I can’t remember the guy’s name!) was when his boyfriend was cheating on him, and Freddie flew him to New York only to tell him it was over and sent him back to England on the next flight! And Freddie kept the guy’s cat, too! I adore that breakup story....what every person wishes they could do to the rat that cheats on them, lol! Chevy, when you say Indians keep to themselves, are you talking Eastern Indians? I am not sure Freddie falls in that category, really? I realize he was from the region, but with his parents religion and Persian background is that the same thing? I will admit my knowledge of the geography of that region and characteristics of their lifestyle is lacking. I do hate the thought of generalizing that all Indians would behave in a certain way just based on where they are born. |
CHEVYMAN 31.03.2020 18:11 |
Mhz, yes I mean most persians have this characteristic as well as the native American Indians.Its just part of their culture.Think about after Freddie died that terrible article that man wrote saying Freddie deserved what he got because he was living a sinful life being gay.His mother in her grief never lashed out once all Indians no matter their region I noticed tend to avoid confrontation.They are peacemakers to the white man.I know it's hard to imagine Freddie as a full blood Persian Indian but I encourage anyone to do research on his parents faith and his upbringing and then maybe it will shred some light on this mind boggling question. |
CHEVYMAN 31.03.2020 18:21 |
Persians practice sharing , love , hard work, and good deeds.I think Freddie in many ways was not religious but his Indian faith never left him if you listen to alot of his early music it's all over it.His colors he wore were of his faith.Eart, fire, and water.These are things of nature things he held dear from his child as a young boy.He was Freddie Mercury the entertainer but like he told his mom I will always be Freddie Bulsara .Its a very interesting history not all Indian values and religion are the same but they have some of the same basic beliefs as one another.They are very shy as well my father is a full blood wont talk till he real knows you.Indians have trust issues i dont know why.Freddie did too didnt he. |
MyHumanZoo 03.04.2020 15:04 |
I finished the book, so I did read through the part about Ratty leaving, and at least in this case Freddie finally did make the first move and asked Ratty about his leaving....although he avoided the subject for a long time. One thing I’ve always wondered about...and Ratty mentioned but didn’t elaborate on...was what happened with John Deacon in Munich. Ratty says John started smoking, grew his hair back out, and generally withdrew...leaving recording and only telling Ratty where he was going, not the band. It makes me wonder, was his marriage struggling...did he have an affair? Did his wife? Was he beginning to have some phobias about being social...or performing? Was he becoming an alcoholic (or other...) and that was the problem? It sure sounds like there was something there, and they have all kept quiet about it all these years. I’m also amazed at all the struggles of crossing borders as they went from country to country...and all the under-the-table money that exchanged hands. I guess you know that stuff goes on, but it’s amazing how much of it really happened, and the danger those guys were in all the time. And it also amazes me how much they did cocaine and other drugs...the risk of getting it from people in other countries that they didn’t know....they easily could have gotten in trouble. I know those were the times, but it is incredible how they did that all over the world! |
CHEVYMAN 03.04.2020 19:57 |
Mhz, I know he was hitting the strip club after Freddie died and picked up a dancing queen that was real young and bought her a car and stuff .Maybe he was creeping around back then too.He got married so young.I know from experience being married at 19 is tough and having children by the time I was 24 .None of my friends were married at that age they were parting their ass off.Its a hard pill to swallow the grass can all look better for a while and men are curious little creatures anyway. |
Katydyd5 04.04.2020 00:46 |
MHZ, I've always wondered about John's disappearance too. Ratty gives a bit more detail but I think that's because he was the only one who knew John was leaving. I think I've heard Mack mention it briefly in an interview but without details. It's only speculation but I've always wondered if John had a bit of a mini breakdown and just couldn't deal with the band or the pressure for one more minute, so he took off. Whatever his reasons we will never know, but he seemed to return refreshed. I agree with you that it seemed pretty risky to be getting drugs from unknown people in countries they didn't know well. Maybe I've seen too much Locked Up Abroad on the National Geo channel. I'm kind of sorry you finished the book because I've enjoyed the discussion. I wish there were more books out there to discuss! |
MyHumanZoo 04.04.2020 17:39 |
Chevy, I have heard that before, that John fell for a dancer (stripper?) and bought her a house and car and stuff....but I don’t know where that was reported from, do you know? I’d just like to know whether it’s rumor or if it is from a reputable source. Katyd, the idea about a breakdown seems possible, and it is never clear when John takes off whether he went somewhere alone or if he had company...family or otherwise. I often wonder if the song In Only Seven Days was a real experience for John, when he went on one of those trips. I haven’t looked at that song’s timing in relation to when he was having these troubles though. I am bummed the book is done too, I enjoy the analysis! |
Katydyd5 05.04.2020 02:29 |
MHZ, I had never heard of In Only Seven Days. I still have so much to learn about Queen and that makes me happy because It means I'll never run out of new discoveries. I Googled it and the song is from 1978. To be honest, I didn't really care for it, but I have to wonder too if John is describing a real experience. He's probably the Queen member I know the least about but there is something I really like about him. I've always loved the pictures of Freddie playing with John's children. I did notice that OSD is on the Jazz CD. That's one I don't have, but I also saw that Mustapha is on it too and that's one of my favorite songs. I may have to purchase that some day. However, since I only listen to CD's in the car, and I'm not driving anywhere these days it will have to wait. I do enjoy analyzing books so I'm glad I found this thread. When you were discussing AIB I wasn't that interested until I started reading all of your posts. I ended up rereading the book so I could join in. Maybe someone will come up with another book! |
CHEVYMAN 05.04.2020 03:58 |
Mhz, I dont remember the source on the stripper thing but it soundsclukely he married so young looking for a little younger and some strange sounds pretty right for a rocker even a quiet one like John Deacon.The newness must have worn off the boob job because he is back with old faithful like he should be the mother of his children.I know a women that has 5 children and they all have different fathers I just cant fathom that I'm a bit old fashioned 3 kids one man all the same dad for me.Even if I divorced I would have no more children I believe in having children by one man and then your done.Katydyd, getting drugs anywhere is risky for Freddie it was a spit in the bucket he wasnt your average guy plus he had the cocaine queen Barbara Valentine where Cocaine was the Maine course she knew everybody. |
MyHumanZoo 05.04.2020 15:32 |
So 1978 would have been before the Munich years, but perhaps John was beginning to think about straying even back then. I often wonder (and this is just me tossing out random thoughts here) whether once John’s wife found out about his dancer interaction and there were words....whether she gave him some kind of ultimatum...like, no more wandering around on tour or while recording, and as soon as Freddie was gone she told John no more touring or I’m taking the kids and leaving. That could have contributed to his social withdrawal and his fear of interacting....like maybe he worried he would get himself in trouble or his wife would get the wrong idea from someone, so it was easier just to stay hidden? Probably not, and I don’t want to make his wife out to be a controlling villain or anything. But I could see if your husband strayed like that maybe putting down some strong rules. I love the song In Only Seven Days, I’m not even sure why, it’s kind of a happy little tune with a story. I like Mustapha too....the first time I heard it I was shocked and thought it was the strangest thing, but now I love it! I really enjoy the whole Jazz album, except for More of That Jazz by Roger. It always irks me that in the middle of the song there are a bunch of clips of the other songs, like someone is flipping a radio channel. It sounds like a mistake...and it just disrupts things...I can’t understand why they did it?! |
Saint Jiub 05.04.2020 23:09 |
John's fling was in 2002. I remember an article in Italian magazine with a photo of John staring mesmerized at the lap dancer, Emma Shelley, while she was perforrming. The photos and original articles seem to be long gone but the text has been preserved from an article on the People website. link |
Katydyd5 05.04.2020 23:27 |
St. Jiub, that makes me sad for all the people involved. Nobody wins in a situation like that. MHZ, I've always figured John stopped touring after Freddie died because he thought Freddie was not replaceable. |
MyHumanZoo 06.04.2020 15:40 |
Thanks, Saint! I knew there was stuff out there, just never saw it. So the timing is much later, kind of interesting I guess. One would think he would be little more discreet....but then again we don’t know whether or not it is even true. I am still hopeful he remained a dedicated family man and that the reports are just tabloid stuff! |
CHEVYMAN 06.04.2020 16:59 |
I think we are all humans and sometimes tragedy may play apart in our actions and choices.I dont know if this was John's situation or he just married so young and got to living life in the fast lane of a wild and popular upcoming band.Queen knew how to through a party fish tanks with naked painted people in it and women smoking cigarettes from their vaginas .Wow Freddie had given orders at one party to gather up every strange available freak there was and bring them to Queens party and they did.Freddie was an accepting person and wanted everyone to party their ass off and have a good time I just dont know how this affected poor John then the fact his friend a mentor he looked up too died of AIDS Katydyd you may be right it might have been to much for John.At least he went back to his love and she took him back forgiveness is a hard thing to do. |
CHEVYMAN 07.04.2020 01:29 |
Saint, Thanks for finding that I was shocked when I read it but who can resist a pretty lady.Especially with it all in your face.My mom was a dance and very beautiful.They will make a good boy bad quuckly. |
BalanceBlind 13.09.2020 07:41 |
Freddie was truly an outstanding person. He brought so much joy into this world and made it sad when he's left. It looks kinda strange that persona this big never really had a proper bibliography. He has so much mystery around himself, also due to the fact that he was a very secretive person. It's so sad that don't have good pdf books about this legend person. |
CHEVYMAN 13.09.2020 17:18 |
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CHEVYMAN 13.09.2020 19:05 |