Tartlet 19.08.2019 23:18 |
I don’t want to stir up things but when I read other comments on whether Freddie loves Mary or Jim more, and also how Jim/Phoebe were upset that they had to move out of Freddie’s home so quickly, I just don’t understand how this is even a discussion ! 1. I am sure Freddie did love Jim, but if he loved him more than Mary, he would have left him Garden Lodge etc. Instead, he left him the same amount as his secretary and cook. Not even a little more ! I am not saying he didn’t love him but he was under no illusions that this was the great love of his life. Even though Jim stuck by him unlike many of his other lovers, he was there to fulfill a function at that point. 2. If Freddie wanted Jim and Phoebe to stick around in Garden Lodge, it would have been stayed in the will. Simple. And why would they want to hang around? It’s not respectful that they would want to overstay. I understand a month or so but you gotta leave. Have some self-respect. It’s crazy that they are offended. Did they think they’re just gonna live there with Mary and her baby? Freddie gave us the answers to these questions in his will. If he had wanted something done, he would have stated it there. If he loved somebody more, he would have left them more. And why didn’t Jim get his ashes? It’s so clear who he ultimately trusted. I have not chosen a Mary Austin camp, just stating clear facts. |
HelloDelilah 19.08.2019 23:53 |
^^^SPOT ON^^^ |
HelloDelilah 19.08.2019 23:53 |
^^^SPOT ON^^^ |
Pokemaniacjunk 20.08.2019 01:26 |
although I don't got anything for the 2nd reason I can give a few possible reasons for the 1st one Freddie and Mary had known each other for over 20 years by that point and Mary had 2 kids that Freddie probably thought should grow up in a bigger home |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 04:48 |
HelloDelilah ?? |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 04:53 |
Pokemaniacjunk thanks for your answer, we can all just speculate after all, but I am sure Mary wasn’t living in a shack at that point and her kids would have had even more than they would ever need. Also, she had a partner, or father of her kids, I’m sure Freddie wasn’t thinking about him either. In fact, despite that that dude would be living in his dahling Garden Lodge, he still left it to her. No, Garden Lodge was a purely emotional decision, it was his baby along with his kitties. And he left it to the (platonic) love of his life. |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 04:55 |
HelloDelilah (I had I inserted a hive five emoji, but didn’t realize those don’t work on here) ! x |
Martin Packer 20.08.2019 09:07 |
When was the will written? That might well have some bearing on its contents. Also, it's occurred to me he might've thought the estate too much of a burden on Jim. |
mariah carey 20.08.2019 11:36 |
money doesn't equal love |
Stick 20.08.2019 12:18 |
For a lot of women it does. |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 16:37 |
Martin Packer, he knew he wasn’t well and was with Jim for a long while. If he had wanted to, he would he changed his will for sure. |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 16:37 |
Mariah Carey I agree it doesn’t. But Garden Lodge is pure love dahling. |
stevelondon20 20.08.2019 17:16 |
Surprised the Fake Mary account hasn't commented on this yet. |
oligneisti 20.08.2019 17:25 |
Freddie knew Jim was HIV+ and likely thought he wouldn't have many years left. So, thinking in the long term it would have seemed quite sensible to leave it to Mary. Also, if you think about inheritance tax it doesn't make any sense to leave it to someone who might die in a few years time. We can't really separate the musical rights from the house since the income from the music makes it possible to run that kind of house. Those rights are a hassle to manage and not something you want to burden a sick man with. Freddie also might have thought in terms of who his heir's heirs would be. Jim had no children but Mary had two (if memory serves). If the estate would have been divided between Jim's family it would have meant that it would be split into pieces between people Freddie didn't know (at all?). On the other hand he was close to Mary's kids. If you think it through Mary is the obvious choice as an heir, regardless of whom Freddie loved more (if we want to quantify love). I don't know if Freddie assumed Jim and co. would live in the house indefinably though I am tempted to jump to that conclusion. |
Invisible Woman 20.08.2019 17:56 |
To me, his will is not proof of anything, especially the proof of love. It's clear that he didn't write the whole text himself. I think Freddie was sure in Jim's love and Jim was sure in Freddie's love. Their love cannot be seen through money. If his will never existed what would be the fact as the prove that he loved Mary the most? I don't understand people who persistently claim that she was the love of his life. If so, why he didn't stay with her? Because he was gay? Or because doesn't loved her in that way? He doesn't loved her as a lover. He loved her just as a friend. Also, the theory " Mary for love and men just for sex" is pointless because Freddie and Jim stayed to live together as partners and as lovers till the end. Someone is for Mary, someone is for Jim, to someone it's all the same and completely irrelevant and that is all right. But I don't think his will can be the proof who was the person he loved most. |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 18:10 |
Oligneisti let’s say we go with your logic about the house, why then did he leave Jim an equal amount of money as his personal assistant and his cook? He could have left him more as he did with Terry Giddings (left him a different amount - less). I think Freddie made it clear, he was his last love, a lasting relationship maybe due to the fact that he wasn’t going to go out on the pull anymore. I think he did love him very much but under no circumstances the love of his life. |
Tartlet 20.08.2019 18:16 |
Invisible Woman I think his will reflects exactly his feelings. He was a shrewd business man and even though he didn’t write the legal lingo, he wrote everything else to his exact wishes. You can’t just imply the lawyers decided the percentages or details themselves ! Also, he could have left everything to his parents or sister and nephews, they were the obvious choice. Which leads us to believe that Mary was the love of his life. And he wasn’t with her because he was gay. It became a platonic love, a most previous kind of friendship. I believe she was his soulmate. The person he trusted the most. |
mariah carey 20.08.2019 18:50 |
Tartlet wrote: Oligneisti let’s say we go with your logic about the house, why then did he leave Jim an equal amount of money as his personal assistant and his cook? He could have left him more as he did with Terry Giddings (left him a different amount - less). I think Freddie made it clear, he was his last love, a lasting relationship maybe due to the fact that he wasn’t going to go out on the pull anymore. I think he did love him very much but under no circumstances the love of his life.Joe and Phoebe weren't just his workers - they were like a family to him |
Invisible Woman 20.08.2019 20:31 |
@Tartlet But you didn't answer my question: if his will never existed in that form, which thing would be proof that Mary was "love of his life"? His family probably approved of such a will. It was appropriate for them as well as the band's managers that he had a female widow and not a male widow. Those were other times. Today is a little different. Love between lovers doesn't just mean sex. There is also a psychic connection and special feelings. He felt friendly love for her and it's really something different. He wanted Jim by his side as a partner until the very end and no matter they stop having sex. In hearts they still were lovers. If Freddie didn't care about Jim and if he didn't love him they would be broke up for sure. But they really loved each other. I don't understand why some want to diminish that love and show it as meaningless. |
mariah carey 20.08.2019 20:46 |
@Invisible Woman I couldn't agree more with everything you said |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 00:17 |
Mariah Carey yeah they were like family to him but surely if he was able to classify Terry Giddings as less close to him than them, a ‘husband’ as Jim was perceived would have had to have been differentiated also, if only for sentimental reasons. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 00:26 |
Invisible Woman Freddie himself has responded to your question in the interviews he did and the things he said about nobody being able to come close to Mary. And also in his song ‘love of my life’ of which he left the rights to, to her. Also, I don’t believe for a minute that Freddie would conform to what deemed appropriate in his will to please his family and everybody. Have you seen the way he lived his life? Short of shouting from the rooftops ‘I’m gay’, which was nobody’s business anyway then and now, he lived his life unapologetically, conforming to no expectations socially and musically. And if he wanted to image manage his will as you suggest, then he would have left everything to his parents and sister. No, he was sending a strong message across. Nobody is trying to diminish his love for Jim and everything Jim did for him at the end, but let’s not be under illusions here that he was the love of his life. He was a meaningful love but came nowhere near Mary. And I am not on her side for the sake of it, just stating the facts. I would support anybody he had chosen for that honour and that clearly was her. |
Galileo1564 21.08.2019 02:23 |
@oligneisti >>Freddie knew Jim was HIV+ and likely thought he wouldn't have many years left. This is one of the persistent myths about HIV on queenzone. If I had a dollar or a pound for every time someone said this. . . It’s true for an AIDS diagnosis in 1991, but not for HIV. In 1987 it was still believed that many people with HIV would never get sick. Now we’re talking about 1991 when Freddie wrote his will. As time went on the truth more and more was realized. Certainly in 1991 it was known that there were people who had been HIV positive since 1978 who were still not sick. (1978 tests were on stored serum samples from the Hepatitis B studies conducted in the US.) In addition to this Freddie’s doctor Graeme Moyle always knows what’s going on, so he would have known about the research being done at Merck on protease inhibitors which eventually made HIV a treatable disease and which Jim took. The person who initiated this research gave a talk or series of talks in the UK but sadly took the Lockerbie flight home. By 1991 hope for the near future was very reasonable. That’s partly what made all the deaths in the early 90s so horrible. Full blown AIDS as they used to call it was a different story. Once you got that diagnosis, your days were numbered. But HIV infection? You could walk around with that for years or even decades and not know it. Present tense for Dr. Moyle because it’s still true. I don’t think it’s appropriate to gauge Freddie’s love for Jim vs. Mary from his will. Didn’t Jim go to live in the house in Ireland that Freddie gave him? Perhaps that is where he wanted to live and not Garden Lodge anyway. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 05:12 |
Galileo 1564 Thanks for the clarification of that, even I learnt something new from it and I’ve skimmed through the book ‘Somebody to love’. I think you’ve summarized it better ! I take issue with, Jim and Phoebe saying that Mary kicked them out and acted so coldly after Freddie’s unfortunate demise. And the claim was that Freddie had wanted for them to stay on. That just flabbergasts me and hence me saying that if he had wanted that, he would have put it in the will. He knew exactly what he was doing and he never wanted three grown men who he had given houses to already, to stay in with Mary and her babies in Garden Lodge. Unfortunately also while I want to believe that Jim was finally the great gay love if his life, I do think the will is a bit telling, not to say he didn’t love him at all. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 05:20 |
I'm gonna say this again - money doesn't equal love |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 06:24 |
Mariah Carey and I’ll repeat, maybe money isn’t but Garden Lodge was his definition of love along with his cats. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 06:31 |
Tartlet wrote: Mariah Carey and I’ll repeat, maybe money isn’t but Garden Lodge was his definition of love along with his cats.Garden Lodge is just a house and he gave that house a person who had kids and a family, also who knew how to take care of financial things and stuff. It's that simple. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 06:44 |
Mariah Carey Garden Lodge was never just a house, it and the cats were his babies. And if he wanted to just give them to somebody it would have been huis parents and sister. Btw I really like Mariah Carey the singer ;) |
HelloDelilah 21.08.2019 06:45 |
I agree that money doesn't equal love or buy happiness. Freddie seemed like he really enjoyed money, LOTS of it and spent it on whatever he wanted. Garden Lodge and his cats were his love and very dear to him. In reality, if a person were to create a trust, who would they give their hard earned money and possessions to? Someone they love or someone they don't love? Most people would give it to someone they love. Doesn't that just make sense? |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 06:59 |
Hello Delilah Couldn’t have said it better myself ! |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 07:31 |
@ Tartlet Of course, I forgot those interviews, how I'm could be so stupid. LOL All these interviews in which Freddie talks about Mary are interviews done to the public to create an appropriate picture. Also, that was before he started a serious relationship with Jim. Find me at least one of his interviews where he talks about her in that way after they started relationship. On the other hand, the interviews in which he mentions that he is finally happy and has the partner he has always wanted speaks much more. Of course he doesn't mention Jim's name, imagine what a scandal it would be if he openly said he had a man as a partner in those years. Of course his family knew he was gay, of course they knew what Jim meant to him. That's why they and managers needed Mary so much in public. Why do you think he hired him as a home gardener? Because of caprice? Of course not, he hired him because he knew that after a Paul Prenter's story in the tabloid it would be difficult to get a new job as a barber. Paul named Jim Hatton as Freddie's lover. Jim probably lost that job because of that. Jim meant a lot to Freddie despite some fans don't like it. All right, let it be that Mary was the love of his life but Jim was Freddie's greatest love of all. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 07:41 |
Invisible Woman I don’t think Jim was his greatest love of all. He was a sincere love and neither Mary was his greatest love in the traditional sense. But she was his greatest love in terms of being a best friend and soulmate. He released a statement just before he died saying he had AIDS, that’s akin to saying he was gay in those times. He said himself he didn’t care what happens after he dies (unless he was made to be boring lol). He could have left him a bit more than his cook. I think people see what they want to see. I have nothing against Jim (other than him writing a tell all book), but Mary never ratted on him, just sayin’. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 07:59 |
Tartlet wrote: Invisible Woman I don’t think Jim was his greatest love of all. He was a sincere love and neither Mary was his greatest love in the traditional sense. But she was his greatest love in terms of being a best friend and soulmate. He released a statement just before he died saying he had AIDS, that’s akin to saying he was gay in those times. He said himself he didn’t care what happens after he dies (unless he was made to be boring lol). He could have left him a bit more than his cook. I think people see what they want to see. I have nothing against Jim (other than him writing a tell all book), but Mary never ratted on him, just sayin’.What's wrong with writing a book? A book by a person who actually knew Freddie is better than trashy tabloid stories. Also, Mary did lots of paid interviews where she talked about their sex life and stuff, but somehow nobody sees anything wrong with that. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 08:07 |
Mariah Carey what’s Wrong with writing a book? Freddie valued his privacy beyond anything else. And he didn’t want to hurt his parents. But Jim told us whether he liked to be active or passive ! He told us his last words were Pipi ! Do you think that’s somebody who wrote a book to grieve? I would have believed that a bit more of he had donated all the proceeds to an AIDS foundation or a cat’s shelter. And even then it would still have been distasteful. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 08:20 |
Tartlet wrote: Mariah Carey what’s Wrong with writing a book? Freddie valued his privacy beyond anything else. And he didn’t want to hurt his parents. But Jim told us whether he liked to be active or passive ! He told us his last words were Pipi ! Do you think that’s somebody who wrote a book to grieve? I would have believed that a bit more of he had donated all the proceeds to an AIDS foundation or a cat’s shelter. And even then it would still have been distasteful.Oh God, Jim didn't tell us anything new, if you think that Freddie would've been mad about that... lmao. Also, the book's proceeds go to a hospital which cared for him |
HelloDelilah 21.08.2019 08:23 |
I agree that Mary was his soulmate and most trusted best friend. How much more trust can someone have when they give you their ashes and you're the only one that knows the whereabouts? Not even Freddie's parents nor his sister knows where the ashes are. And neither did his boyfriend/husband, Jim. Trust is the foundation of a solid relationship. This is so telling about where Mary stood in Freddie's life. I also don't have anything against Jim, besides the tell-all book. From interviews I saw, he seems like a nice person but I don't think he was his greatest love. Jim didn't even know where Freddie's ashes were buried. As a boyfriend, let alone husband, wouldn't you think he would at least know where the ashes were? |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 08:25 |
Mariah Carey Jim didn’t tell us anything new ? He didn’t describe how Freddie cried in his weakest moments among other things. You really think Freddie wouldn’t have minded ? Hmm nothing I can say to you then. The Jim Hutton book proceeds went into his pocket. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 08:32 |
Tartlet wrote: Mariah Carey Jim didn’t tell us anything new ? He didn’t describe how Freddie cried in his weakest moments among other things. You really think Freddie wouldn’t have minded ? Hmm nothing I can say to you then. The Jim Hutton book proceeds went into his pocket.what's wrong with showing a human side of Freddie Mercury? But it's always about what Jim said. I don't see people so worked up over Mary saying that they didn't have sex for the last 2 years of their relationship or that it took her 3 years to fall in love with him, or Rosemary Pearson saying that Freddie started crying about his need of man in the middle of sex |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 08:34 |
@ Tartlet Exactly, everyone sees what they want to see. So you see what you want to see. Love of my life wasn't wrote for Mary, thats another created story for public. For the public and his family men of Garden Lodge were only employees and so it should have stayed. It's obvious that they only could mentioned in the will as employees, not as his partner and friends. That is the reason why they recived same amount. But Jim was his partner and Joe and Peter was his friends. That's why his will can't proves nothing. If Jim and Peter didn't wrote their books, the public would not have known the truth. Mary would forever remain his widow .But she wasn't it at all. She had two children with her partner but she continued to play her role "love of his life" right now after Freddie's death. She was pregnant at that moment. Thats hypocritical. Those books put a shadow on that long-created image for the public. That's why many hates Jim, he ruined perfect picture of Mary. |
HelloDelilah 21.08.2019 08:42 |
mariah carey, There is no documentation that the proceeds from Jim's book went to a hospital and I haven't read anything about it from my research. From what I understand, the proceeds went to Jim. What Mary said is mild and a nothing burger in comparison. She didn't describe intimate moments like Jim did in his book. What kind of husband would write about his spouse in a book detailing their sex positions for public knowledge? |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 08:45 |
HelloDelilah wrote: mariah carey, There is no documentation that the proceeds from Jim's book went to a hospital and I haven't read anything about it from my research. From what I understand, the proceeds went to Jim. What Mary said is mild and a nothing burger in comparison. She didn't describe intimate moments like Jim did in his book. What kind of husband would write about his spouse in a book detailing their sex positions for public knowledge?There were like two lines about sex in his book, nothing detailed lmao |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 08:47 |
Invisible Woman Nobody knows who love of my life was written to at the moment it was written, some say it was about David Minns. But him leaving the rights to that song to Mary shoes that ultimately that song is written about her whether at conception or in hindsight at his demise. Also, I don’t think he would have given a shit about how people perceived or read his will. And ultimately if she wasn’t the love of his life why didn’t he leave everything to his parents/sister. And as Hello Delilah said, what about his ashes? If everything else is mere possessions, the ashes are the ultimate proof. Not even his mum knows where they are. Mic drop. Note: I just wanted to say that we all love and care about Freddie and his legacy and even this debate shows how passionate we all are about it. And I am glad for the discussion. |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 09:15 |
@ Tartlet You really don't get the point? Of course he didn't care what anyone would say about his will. But others did care. He was an institution, his name brought money to many people. And so it is today. If not, would some people still make big money today from the movie that also paints a picture of Mary as the love of Freddie's life? It's all a big bussines. He probably did what he had to do. Or he was let down by people he trusted. Maybe both things. That's how I look at it and I won't change my opinion about it. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 09:49 |
Invisible Woman whatever the business side of things may or may not be, his ashes (along with GL and his cats) went to who his really trusted and loved. And nobody can argue with that or have different opinions about it. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 09:50 |
Invisible Woman whatever the business side of things may or may not be, his ashes (along with GL and his cats) went to who his really trusted and loved. And nobody can argue with that or have different opinions about it. |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 10:32 |
Sorry, who are you to decide if anyone can have their own opinion about something? You have your own opinion and I have my own and as far as I am concerned my opinion is logical. I don't mind that someone believes in a fairy tale about Mary, but I have if someone says that no one can have a different opinion about something. With that you said everything and made this whole discussion to not any sense. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 10:35 |
Invisible Woman Explain the Ashes then. Why did he give only Mary possession and knowledge of the ashes? |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 10:46 |
@Tartlet I have already answered that through earlier posts. Actually, nobody really knows did she fulfil what he wanted. I believe his wish was exactly as Jim described it in his book. And I will stop with this discussion. I already said what I wanted to say. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 10:53 |
Invisible Woman I expected this kind of answer from you because you have no response or explanation to the ashes. You have neither answered it already nor are answering it now. Instead you choose to be offended and exit the discussion as expected. Nor do any of the Mary bashers. As somebody phrased it better than I did: I don’t understand why anybody would want to put down Mary, the person Freddie loved and trusted the most, which he LITERALLY gave himself to (referring to ashes again). |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 10:59 |
Mary was like a mother/sister figure for Freddie, while Jim was his romantic partner. Case closed |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 11:22 |
@Tartlet All right. Then what do you want? Should we be arguing about this forever? I don't have that intention. And I answered that through my posts. If you don't understand that's not my problem. |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 11:34 |
Invisible Woman You haven’t answered my question re the ashes but that’s okay because I already know the answer. |
Mark_Glasgow 21.08.2019 11:49 |
At the end of the day, i doubt there is one person in this thread that would leave a penny to their au pair, house cleaner or gardner when they die.....so why would Freddie leave anything to his staff? Theres your answer in a nutshell. |
Invisible Woman 21.08.2019 12:04 |
Tartlet wrote: Invisible Woman You haven’t answered my question re the ashes but that’s okay because I already know the answer.-------- Oh, yes, I answered and my answer is in my posts. You just have to read carefuly. But OK. You know everything about it and you decide which opinion is right and which is wrong. Your opinion and your point of view are right and different opinions are wrong. :-D |
Mark_Glasgow 21.08.2019 15:23 |
|
stevelondon20 21.08.2019 16:54 |
Mark_Glasgow wrote: At the end of the day, i doubt there is one person in this thread that would leave a penny to their au pair, house cleaner or gardner when they die.....so why would Freddie leave anything to his staff? Theres your answer in a nutshell.He left some money to Joe Fanelli though.... |
HelloDelilah 21.08.2019 18:00 |
Mariah Carey, glad you could have a good laugh on someone else’s account. :D Seriously though, who calls his mother or sister his common-law wife? It’s highly unlikely that Freddie thought of Mary as a motherly figure as you may have hoped. “All my lovers asked me why they couldn't replace Mary, but it's simply impossible. The only friend I've got is Mary and I don't want anybody else. To me, she was my common-law wife. To me, it was a marriage. We believe in each other, that's enough for me.” Freddie Mercury |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 18:17 |
HelloDelilah wrote: Mariah Carey, glad you could have a good laugh on someone else’s account. :D Seriously though, who calls his mother or sister his common-law wife? It’s highly unlikely that Freddie thought of Mary as a motherly figure as you may have hoped. “All my lovers asked me why they couldn't replace Mary, but it's simply impossible. The only friend I've got is Mary and I don't want anybody else. To me, she was my common-law wife. To me, it was a marriage. We believe in each other, that's enough for me.” Freddie MercuryWhy then he didn't stay with her and didn't marry her? |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 18:35 |
Mariah Carey because he was gay. He wanted to have sex with men. |
mariah carey 21.08.2019 18:46 |
Tartlet wrote: Mariah Carey because he was gay. He wanted to have sex with men.Exactly. So as I said, Mary was like mother/sister figure to him, Jim was his romantic partner |
Tartlet 21.08.2019 18:53 |
Mariah Carey It’s not the case that if you can’t have sex with somebody then it’s a brother/sister situation. Love can be platonic, soulmates - not always physical. |
kokaxx 21.08.2019 21:51 |
Gosh... all these speculations about a person you never met , you never knew. Here and there one wonders if the commenter lives in a fantasy world. Just in case: ( Jackie Smith's reply to someone who couldn't get enough ...) " Many things bothered Freddie. And Jim admitted his own book would have been one of them ..." |