QueenZone discussion #1556029
Capitol Records 'A Kind Of Magic' US Singles Fail
| MisterCosmicc 26.06.2019 05:44 |
No 'Who wants To Live Forever' No 'Friends Will Be Friends' Yes 'Princes Of The Universe' Yes, and maybe the worst choice, 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' What was going on with Capitol Records at that time? I know the soundtrack... but Princes Of The Universe, while a huge part of Highlander... it wasn't really a song that'd be a great single. I mean it should have been a single, but maybe at the end. Not a radio format track. 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' is alright, but in the USA for American buyers who usually preferred their hard rock stuff or ballads? Americans are very black or white... one or the other... something else, they get nervous. I think both Friends Will Be Friends and Who Wants To Live Forever could have been fucking HUGE in the USA. Who Wants To Live Forever maybe could have been a bigger hit than A Kind Of Magic! |
| dysan 26.06.2019 06:11 |
I was thinking about PISCTP and thought 'well, it was 1986 and that sound was in' and give Chain Reaction by Diana Ross as an example. Then I realised they are almost exactly the same :/ |
| stevelondon20 26.06.2019 06:17 |
Wow, your right mate. Incredibly similar. |
| bucsateflon 26.06.2019 07:10 |
Putting Pain so close... as a single would only make you a sellout in the eyes of the people who know you are a rock band at the core. |
| reesefallon 26.06.2019 09:53 |
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| stevelondon20 26.06.2019 11:24 |
I think it should have been considered. Nothing wrong with mixing it up a bit. |
| matt z 26.06.2019 19:00 |
Good call on CHAIN REACTION Not in the sense thaT it's a good song but I'm the sense it might have fit the template pretty well. Released as a then tribute to old school Motown on 11/28/85 and written by the Brothers Gibb.... Definitely explains a lot of their 80's filler. ...it was stolen from dance tracks. Although WHAM! And others had brought back Motown into vogue that song is quite a bit similar. I've always defended it saying it would sound better with a girl group. Dang. As for complete plagiarism nah. This stuff is all a spin on HOW SWEET IT IS TO BE LOVED N YOU and the stuff written for the Supremes |
| dysan 26.06.2019 20:26 |
I've been singing a weird mash up of PISCTP and Chain Reaction all day. They morph seamlessly into each other at so many points. |
| stevelondon20 26.06.2019 21:49 |
You and me both Dysan! |
| dysan 27.06.2019 07:37 |
I think the single choices mostly work. You just never know what's going to work at a certain point. Nice to have different selections in different countries too. If a bit pricy if you're a collector. The magic of the tracks 'that should've been a single' is that they retain kudos - rather than falling into the possibility of being a flop tarnishing them. |
| Holly2003 27.06.2019 08:21 |
Ahem. /queenzone/314322.html On the subject of singles, the album is too weak to generate more that 2 or 3 at best. Of course, sometimes poor songs equal successful singles -- there's no accounting for popular taste. But I see the 'experimentation' here of releasing different singles in different markets more as a recognition of the weakness of the songs rather than any bravery on the band's part. |
| dysan 27.06.2019 08:50 |
Haha great minds and all that *thumbs up gif* |
| matt z 27.06.2019 17:59 |
Should've put out AKOM bw PRINCES/dozen red then WWTLF/GIMME/forever Since 45's were kinda out of fashion already |
| miraclesteinway 27.06.2019 18:08 |
I like A Kind of Magic as an album, I have a soft spot for it because it's a big part of my childhood, but objectively it's dated pretty badly, and it's not a strong singles album. Who Wants To Live Forever is not radio friendly, A Kind of Magic is great though, including the video, and I'm surprised One Vision wasn't a number one hit in the UK to be honest. Pain Is So Close to Pleasure, yeah it's total Diana Ross, but it's a nice song nonetheless. I think Friends will be Friends is pretty weak though. Princes of the Universe works well in the context of the film, it's very Freddie, but it's not a single. Gimme The Prize has an outrageously good vocal but it's not a single, and One Year Of Love is really not a song I ever rated. Don't Lose Your Head is meh. |
| MisterCosmicc 27.06.2019 18:38 |
I love the album, I don’t think it’s dated. 80’s sounding, but is that bad? If you listen to a track from the 60’s do you say, “that sounds terribly dated?” I don’t think music can sound dated... aside from Van Halen tracks. I love ‘Friends Will Be Friends’ and I’m not sure why you think it’s weak. |
| dysan 27.06.2019 19:00 |
We all like different things. I think WWTLF drags the whole album down. It stinks the place up. |
| matt z 27.06.2019 19:30 |
haha... ^ ... I think it's a CAREER highlight... so that shows my regard for it. Though I don't like the single version... it's horrible to ruin the depth of a song that's an experience. Funny how there are so many varied opinions. |
| dysan 27.06.2019 19:34 |
If it was placed somewhere sensible on the tracklist I could put up with it. Like Is This The World.. on The Works. Spool tape to the end ready to go again. |
| mooghead 27.06.2019 19:46 |
Thank you, I really dislike WWTLF. Fucking borefest. |
| stevelondon20 27.06.2019 21:16 |
I think it's a lovely song. |
| k-m 27.06.2019 22:01 |
WWTLF is a bit too sentimental, but works so much better live. "Friends..." would have never been huge in the States or anywhere, to be honest. It's just average. |
| miraclesteinway 27.06.2019 22:02 |
Ok maybe saying it dated badly was unfair, but I just mean it's a bit... well... I don't know, there's just something overly commercial about it. It's like every track on it was designed with commerce and sales in mind, in a sort of 80s bombastic way. Compare that to the stuff they did with A Night At The Opera, or Sheer Heart Attack, and somewhere in there you'll get my meaning. Yes they changed, they had to change, and they were writing for the Highlander film, but I feel that A Kind Of Magic is a commercial LP rather than a real Queen album. There's a lot good about it of course, and Freddie's singing on it is in places absolutely sublime. Every member of the band plays well on it, and it has some nice hooks. I do enjoy listening to it when I want a nostalgia trip back to my childhood. I feel it's a commercial success of an LP and an artistic flop. I think Barcelona was an artistic success, and The Miracle and Innuendo had a lot more of the old Queen sound back than A Kind Of Magic did. Who Wants to Live Forever, for me is a boring song, but it's a wonderful piece of singing, and with the orchestra it sounds pretty lush. It's a boring song though. Of course A Kind Of Magic is also significant in that it's the last album toured by Freddie, and that's important to us, but it doesn't make it their best album by a long shot. I think my favourite album musically is Heart Attack. |
| MisterCosmicc 27.06.2019 23:10 |
I love the single version of Who Wants To Live Forever, a nice loud finale. Wish Freddie sang the whole thing on the single/album versions. Not a fan of Brian’s singing on Queen songs (except No One But You)... love his solo songs though, he developed a rock edge. I love Queen’s 80’s stuff. I love their old stuff, but will I relate to the lyrics more on their 80’s songs, so it’s a more emotional event for me while listening to songs than listening to something for pure pleasure. I’m a depressed individual with a long list of breakups LOL. I know a guy who loves Highlander. It’s one of his favorite films and the funny part is that a lot of Highlander obsessed fans place Queen’s A Kind Of Magic album in high regard, they consider it Queen’s best work. Anyone notice a lack of heartbreak songs by Freddie after 1985? Jim Hutton, we could have had so much more... so hearing Friends Will Be Friends is as close as we go in the breakup department from Freddie... plus I love the instrumental track. Here’s something interesting I read. |
| matt z 28.06.2019 01:44 |
Haha. Neat clip. Which book or mag is it from? |
| dysan 28.06.2019 06:44 |
I've said it before, but I actually think the live WWTLF with AL is fantastic. *ducks for cover* |
| MisterCosmicc 04.10.2019 06:18 |
link |
| runner_70 04.10.2019 17:06 |
dysan wrote: I was thinking about PISCTP and thought 'well, it was 1986 and that sound was in' and give Chain Reaction by Diana Ross as an example. Then I realised they are almost exactly the same :/Good example and I always thought PISCTP was a copy of Chain Reaction tbh |
| dysan 05.10.2019 08:21 |
I think we talked about it before, but I wonder how this would've faired if given a full release supporting Live Magic in late 1986 link A Under Pressure B Medley (We Will Rock You - Friends Will Be Friends - We Are The Champions) |
| MisterCosmicc 07.10.2019 23:26 |
I don’t think it would have sold too well. Maybe a top 20 but probably not a top 10. |
| MisterCosmicc 07.10.2019 23:35 |
But most like 20’s. I wish Queen would have done something to have focused on the USA more, especially Freddie since that’s what the public enjoyed best. Queen were always played on MTV in the USA even if the single tanked, but Freddie in particular should have done more interviews and Queen should have kept touring. Queen’s US tours were so long because they performed at a lot of unknown small cities. They should have hit the big cities, instead of just not touring. Their decision to do another album only every 2+ years didn’t help any, either. And I still say single choices were poor at times. Some songs would chart higher on the radio charts than an actual A side! As for The A Kind Of Magic album, I think Friends Will Be Friends and Who Wants To Live Forever should have been issued as US singles. Friends Will Be Friends in particular. With heavy promotion and Freddie going to the US to help promote it. The public needed some traditional Queen music. |
| dysan 08.10.2019 06:41 |
'The public needed some traditional Queen music.' Hold my beer: A Under Pressure B Medley (We Will Rock You - Friends Will Be Friends - We Are The Champions) 'I don’t think it would have sold too well.' *scratches head* |
| MisterCosmicc 08.10.2019 19:47 |
Re-releases... nooo. Traditional in the sense it’s very Queen-like, but not older material. That’s a very Mike Love thing to do, throw the old stuff back at people to make a buck. And if live, not everyone likes live music. |
| Iron Butterfly 09.10.2019 00:56 |
MisterCosmicc wrote: I love the single version of Who Wants To Live Forever, a nice loud finale. Wish Freddie sang the whole thing on the single/album versions. Not a fan of Brian’s singing on Queen songs (except No One But You)... love his solo songs though, he developed a rock edge. I love Queen’s 80’s stuff. I love their old stuff, but will I relate to the lyrics more on their 80’s songs, so it’s a more emotional event for me while listening to songs than listening to something for pure pleasure. I’m a depressed individual with a long list of breakups LOL. I know a guy who loves Highlander. It’s one of his favorite films and the funny part is that a lot of Highlander obsessed fans place Queen’s A Kind Of Magic album in high regard, they consider it Queen’s best work. Anyone notice a lack of heartbreak songs by Freddie after 1985? Jim Hutton, we could have had so much more... so hearing Friends Will Be Friends is as close as we go in the breakup department from Freddie... plus I love the instrumental track. Here’s something interesting I read.Freddie thought the movie was great, never heard that before. I pretty much adore the album, except for OYOL, it's pure 80's cheese IMO. |
| Jeremy 09.10.2019 02:02 |
I love that album. It's the first proper non-greatist-hits Queen album that I ever owned. There are no skipable songs. |
| dysan 09.10.2019 06:41 |
Your first is always special. |
| Day dop 10.10.2019 20:28 |
MisterCosmicc wrote: No 'Who wants To Live Forever' No 'Friends Will Be Friends' Yes 'Princes Of The Universe' Yes, and maybe the worst choice, 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' What was going on with Capitol Records at that time? I know the soundtrack... but Princes Of The Universe, while a huge part of Highlander... it wasn't really a song that'd be a great single. I mean it should have been a single, but maybe at the end. Not a radio format track. 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' is alright, but in the USA for American buyers who usually preferred their hard rock stuff or ballads? Americans are very black or white... one or the other... something else, they get nervous. I think both Friends Will Be Friends and Who Wants To Live Forever could have been fucking HUGE in the USA. Who Wants To Live Forever maybe could have been a bigger hit than A Kind Of Magic!May's letter to fans dated 26th March 1997... "As far as I can tell, a number of things happened concurrently with the last Queen U. S. tour: 1) The Hot Space album was perceived by Radio as Queen forsaking Rock and Roll for Disco—our timing was perhaps a little premature, which is evident when you compare this material with what Michael Jackson was to be doing with Ed Van Halen and Slash in years to come. 2) Relations with Radio were not taken care of—we had a new man in charge of Promotion on the road, who, unknown to us at the time, was very high handed and rude with the media people, and gave them the impression that we no longer cared. We only discovered the huge extent of the damage much later, when trying to get Freddie's solo record played. There was great resentment (radio people, like the rest of us, need to feel loved, and important!), and word of mouth on our tour was distorted by people who now wanted to see us fail. 3) We got caught in the cross-fire of an attempt by Capital Records to withdraw from the Independent Promotion circus (a.k.a. Payola) which dominated radio plays at that time. Capital dropped the man who was the lynchpin of their connection with the network of radio station bribery, and the next week, 95 per cent of radio stations dropped our record, Radio Ga Ga… 4) We made a video, in drag, as a spoof on a soap series, which was viewed as very funny, and something of an innovation, in Europe, but to the media in the U. S., it was seen as a threat to Morality. Yes, seriously—I was around to see the reaction of some of the TV people first-hand—they were horrified! Again, some of the media were looking for fuel for the fires of hatred (or at least distrust!), and a Homophobic undertone further undermined Queen's image in the U. S. The rest of the world did not seem to find any of this a problem!!! Which brings us to: 5) When the question of touring came up, we always looked at the response to our latest album around the world. There was a massive explosion of interest in most of the countries of South America, in Africa, in the East, in Eastern Europe, and parts of Western Europe which had been slow in the early days while we were enjoying great recognition in North America. It made sense (and fun!) to go touring in the countries where there was growth and even hysteria, rather than flogging an apparently Dead Horse in the US, where we felt there was a tide of something which for our intents and purposes was not dissimilar from the McCarthyism which had driven the previous generation's artists out. And there was a stubborn streak in Freddie, it has to be said, which was determined not to go back anywhere where we would be SMALLER than we had been before. Having toured football stadiums in most of the civilised world, it would have been depressing to go back to the U.S. and do theatres—or at least Freddie was adamant that this should was so [sic]. To be honest, without his insistence we probably would have eaten humble pie and gone back in, as Elton did, and win respect all over again. But in the event, the decision was to wait. For a renaissance that never came. I guess I was eager to show my own feelings later; my blind faith in touring my own Brian May Band in the States, was a nice reaffirmation that we have loyal and great friends there, but a disastrous demonstration of how little the word spread, and how-to-lose-a-lot-of-money-very-quickly! It was also very hard for me to keep up the morale of my band, playing a show designed for fair-sized arenas to audiences in tiny clubs. So you see, we did not really give up the U.S.A. without a fight—we just postponed it, in hopes that the Right Time would come. We certainly dreamed, the quality of the Made in Heaven album being acclaimed so highly, and sales around the world being so phenomenal, that America would respond after Freddie's death if not before. But it was not to be. I guess we just didn't play the necessary games. Or maybe it's in the Future……! But I doubt it. Music becomes a huge part of people’s emotional life, but always at the moment when it is ringing in their ears everywhere. There is a huge chunk of Queen Music which rang in everyone's ears from Budapest to Buenos Aires to Beijing, but was silent in America. That can never be changed now.” This article verifies what May is talking about, regarding Capital Records and Payola.... "Capitol ran into serious legal difficulties during the mid-1980s when it became a target of U.S. federal anti-trust inquiries and grand jury proceedings arising out of its use of independent promoters and payola. Payola is the practice of making undisclosed payments to radio stations or personnel in consideration for airplay of a record. The nature of payola and why it is an issue were incomprehensible to Thorn-EMI's board of directors in the U.K. All it knew was the company was in trouble. Radio airplay is one of the most important factors in the success of a pop record, Negus, K. (1992) Producing Pop – Culture and Conflict in the Popular Music Industry (p. 101). In a way this is counter-intuitive because one might think the more one can hear a song on the radio the less likely one is to purchase it on record. In fact the opposite is so because radio airplay reinforces consumer impressions and activates a desire to acquire a permanent instantiation of the recording." link It's safe to say it's true about Queen getting lack of airplay in that area from '84 onward throughout the 80s. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 07:02 |
The thing I took from that at the time was that they were happy to reap the rewards of bunging a radio station to get on air, but when that stopped it showed the the US were never actually that bothered about playing Queen records (other than the obvious) so Queen went off in a huff. The other side of the coin was probably that the popularity in SA was due entirely to their BIG US success the previous years - which was due to bungs. Swings and roundabouts? |
| Holly2003 11.10.2019 07:55 |
I'm looking for the words "Hot Space was a poor album" in Brian's explanation and can't find them anywhere. |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 09:40 |
dysan wrote: The thing I took from that at the time was that they were happy to reap the rewards of bunging a radio station to get on air, but when that stopped it showed the the US were never actually that bothered about playing Queen records (other than the obvious) so Queen went off in a huff. The other side of the coin was probably that the popularity in SA was due entirely to their BIG US success the previous years - which was due to bungs. Swings and roundabouts?Queen weren't paying the radio stations. It was Capital's independent promoters / payola. They become the target of an investigation. Therefore the stations focused instead on other record labels who weren't under investigation. To the radio stations, it was about making money, after all. Without airplay, the masses weren't hearing Queen's new tracks, so they weren't buying them as they didn't realise they had new stuff out. Baring that in mind, it makes sense that straight up rockers such as One Vision and I Want It All didn't do anywhere near as well as you'd expect in North America. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 10:23 |
I didn't say they did that, I said they reaped the rewards of the practice. |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 10:26 |
dysan wrote: I didn't say they did that, I said they reaped the rewards of the practice.As did many artists at the time. Those on low budget record labels or those under investigation (such as Capitol) mostly found themselves excluded from airplay. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 10:30 |
Yeah and? |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 10:34 |
dysan wrote: Yeah and?My last comment was self explanatory. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 10:52 |
Exactly. |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 10:56 |
dysan wrote: Exactly.If you understood that it's self explanatory, why ask "Yeah and"? |
| dysan 11.10.2019 11:34 |
We're having an argument on 2 threads at the same time. This is exhilarating! |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 11:47 |
dysan wrote: We're having an argument on 2 threads at the same time. This is exhilarating!You seem to be arguing with me, though I'm not sure why. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 11:50 |
I'm really not arguing! I don't do that. Anyway like I said in the other thread I'm off out in a bit so lets pick this up tomorrow x |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 12:10 |
dysan wrote: I'm really not arguing! I don't do that. Anyway like I said in the other thread I'm off out in a bit so lets pick this up tomorrow xI'm not fussed. "If you understood that it's self explanatory, why ask "Yeah and?" was essentially a rhetorical question anyway. |
| Day dop 11.10.2019 12:27 |
dysan wrote: I'm really not arguing! I don't do that. Anyway like I said in the other thread I'm off out in a bit so lets pick this up tomorrow xI'm not fussed. "If you understood that it's self explanatory, why ask "Yeah and?" was essentially a rhetorical question anyway. |
| dysan 11.10.2019 21:28 |
You seem to be getting schooled in the other thread so I'll leave it here. xx |
| MisterCosmicc 11.10.2019 22:17 |
Queen were still introduced to the young crowds through MTV. According to Billboard magazines in the 80’s, Queen singles still made regular rotation on MTV whether they were hit songs or not. |
| MisterCosmicc 11.10.2019 22:20 |
Who else was signed to Capital during the time frame Queen were? |
| Day dop 12.10.2019 04:33 |
dysan wrote: You seem to be getting schooled in the other thread so I'll leave it here. xxPerhaps low intelligence such as Runner_70 and co are capable of schooling you, but not me. That would explain why - to you - it would "seem" that way. "The other thread" and your personal grievances and baggage over that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. |
| Day dop 12.10.2019 04:49 |
MisterCosmicc wrote: Who else was signed to Capital during the time frame Queen were?Quite a few acts. some other older acts from abroad tended to suffer lack of airplay as a result of the Payola scandal. From what I recall, Queen was the biggest name. However, as Capital suffered from a loss of funding, they avoided risk by focusing on a few acts only, such as Duran Duran (who were very popular in the U.S at this point, with their previous two albums in '82 and '83 going 2× Platinum). After Hot Space, Queen wouldn't have been seen as a dead cert in the U.S, despite the sales of Radio Gaga looking fairly good up until that point. |
| dysan 12.10.2019 08:24 |
Yes sorry my delivery of that was too dry that it's sarcasm was lost. |
| Day dop 12.10.2019 08:47 |
dysan wrote: Yes sorry my delivery of that was too dry that it's sarcasm was lost.Whatever you want to believe. It would be a plus if you could stop derailing this thread. |
| dysan 12.10.2019 08:59 |
I've made nice contributions to this thread :( |
| MisterCosmicc 12.10.2019 14:56 |
Hey guys, Friends Will Be Friends! |
| MisterCosmicc 05.11.2019 23:33 |
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| marchofthecars 09.11.2019 23:38 |
Some notable artists with Capitol during the Queen years: Tina Turner, Paul McCartney, Duran Duran, Heart, Joe Cocker, Billy Squier, etc etc. |