| Holly2003 15.01.2019 20:08 |
We're through the looking glass now. All sorts of possibilities and uncertainties for the UK, none of which have any precedent except for complete political independence once more. But first on the agenda is a vote of no confidence in the govt. which I think it will win as the DUP hate Jeremy Corbyn and would do anything to keep him out of power. But after that, who knows what the future will be. I wonder what the political dynamos of Queenzone think? |
| Day dop 17.01.2019 07:15 |
They need to just get on with it, before I forget my name. |
| YourValentine 18.01.2019 19:38 |
I have watched a lot of live coverage from the House of Commons lately (what is the difference between "honourable friend" and "right honourable friend"??) and I must say it makes my head spin. Apparently, these days everybody makes up their own reality but when a country has to depend on the wisdom and common sense of a parliament I feel desperate for the United Kingdom. Nobody deserves such incompetence, even when they voted for leaving the biggest European project in history thinking they are so much better off without it. At this point one can only hope this terrible farce ends on March 29th and people have a chance to rebuild their country and the EU has the chance to count their losses (which will be big) and move on. |
| splicksplack 20.01.2019 12:08 |
If the ignorant people had all the facts in the first place we would have voted REMAIN. I'm not saying that ALL Leavers are ignorant. Some have very good cases to make. But the day after the referendum a woman in our local pub said to me "People are very angry about the outcome aren't they?". I said, "I'm not surprised". She said, "Well we had to do something about all these Somalians". Sadly a lot of people in this country have the same zero level of knowledge of political issues. Such an important issue should never have been offered as a public vote. It only happened because Conservative leader Cameron was on the ropes within his own party due to the ascendancy of UKIP and their leader Farage. Cameron mis-judged the appeal of a populist like Farage and his ability to press the buttons of a lot of, frankly, stupid, easily led people. |
| The Real Wizard 22.01.2019 19:05 |
splicksplack wrote: If the ignorant people had all the facts in the first place we would have voted REMAIN.Yep. The day after the Brexit vote, the most googled phrase was "what is the EU". Because the people started to realize that they'd fallen for nationalist propaganda. Shame on them for not even knowing what the EU was to begin with, and understanding its necessity after centuries of conflict. But you can't blame opportunist right wing politicians for wanting to exploit ignorance for personal gain - it's what they do best. |
| tcc 24.01.2019 15:55 |
I was told that a lot of people outside the city of London felt invaded by the immigrants and so they voted for exit. When I said this to a British lady, she said that Britain could have dealt with the immigration issue the same way they had their own currency instead of having Euros. That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings. |
| The Real Wizard 24.01.2019 21:02 |
tcc wrote: That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings.And that is precisely the problem - that feelings have overtaken facts. The facts say that with extremely rare (and usually short term) exceptions, immigration does not increase crime in any region of the world. But we're in a post-fact world now, where it's all about feelings. Of course politicians could point to the facts. They know what the facts are. But it's easier for them to exploit fears than to change people's minds. This is an excellent article on the subject: link And the comments below the line are actually an excellent discussion well worth dipping into. |
| The Real Wizard 24.01.2019 22:07 |
link "Far-right parties demonize out-groups, whether racial minorities, immigrants, or even (in Duterte’s case) drug users. Their arguments center on making these groups look scary and dangerous, and ginning up fear and hatred targeting them. The ease with which rumors and false information can be spread on social media, and the intrinsic difficulty in debunking these ideas once they’re out there, makes them ideal platforms to spread demagogic messages. You can abuse social media to demonize out-groups, but it’s much harder to do so to improve their images with the public. A study in Germany found that, all other things being equal, areas with higher rates of Facebook use saw higher rates of hate crimes targeting immigrants. Pro-democracy politicians are much less likely to benefit from these kinds of illiberal messages. Their core supporters are much more likely to hold basic democratic commitments to equality and freedom, and thus they will lose rather than win support by stoking prejudice. The more anger there is out there, the better off anti-democratic forces are." This is literally what Brexit was all about. And it's since spread to the US, Austria, Mexico, and parts of Canada. And it's not going away any time soon. |
| Day dop 31.01.2019 00:55 |
"Yep. The day after the Brexit vote, the most googled phrase was "what is the EU". " From the article below, "In the month before the referendum "What is the EU" was searched an average of 261 times a day in Britain, according to Google AdWords. That means if searches increased by 250 per cent, as Google announced on Friday, there were still fewer than 1,000 or so people typing the question into the search engine." Considering there's over 66 million people in the UK, it was a very tiny number. Here's the full article about that: link |
| Day dop 31.01.2019 00:58 |
"I was told that a lot of people outside the city of London felt invaded by the immigrants and so they voted for exit. When I said this to a British lady, she said that Britain could have dealt with the immigration issue the same way they had their own currency instead of having Euros. That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings." She was wrong about that. There's no way in a million years the EU would budge on free movement. |
| emrabt 01.02.2019 18:58 |
Most of those searches would have probably been from school kids doing homework. |
| Dr Magus 08.02.2019 10:46 |
We need to leave and the EU needs to be put out of its misery so countries can go back to simply trading with each other. Simple as. |
| Donna13 16.02.2019 14:29 |
So, did the complaints against the EU by the UK citizens begin before the migrant crisis? Are other countries considering an exit? I’ve read a little bit about the EU but it is a little over my head. I don’t understand the economics of it. It seems very complicated. Why would the UK or any country enter into any arrangement that was so difficult (impossible?) to get out of? |
| Dr Magus 17.02.2019 13:15 |
Donna13 wrote: Why would the UK or any country enter into any arrangement that was so difficult (impossible?) to get out of?Unfortunately since we voted to leave the whole narrative of Brexit has been dominated by remainers with their project fear etc. Also the Brexit negotiations are being handled by those who don't want to leave the EU. Namely Theresa May and her cronies with her 'deal' which is a million miles from what the people actually voted for. Basically the majority of the people voted to leave the EU but the majority of members of parliament don't want to. Therein lies the problem. And yes other countries will line up to leave. The EU elite are terrified of this and are making things as difficult for us as possible as a deterrant. |
| Donna13 17.02.2019 22:32 |
If Theresa May was in favor of Brexit, it wouldn’t necessarily help her negotiate with the EU. Are you saying that she purposely negotiated a bad deal? |
| YourValentine 18.02.2019 09:32 |
Donna13 wrote: So, did the complaints against the EU by the UK citizens begin before the migrant crisis? Are other countries considering an exit? I’ve read a little bit about the EU but it is a little over my head. I don’t understand the economics of it. It seems very complicated. Why would the UK or any country enter into any arrangement that was so difficult (impossible?) to get out of? |
| Dr Magus 13.03.2019 11:42 |
Donna13 wrote: If Theresa May was in favor of Brexit, it wouldn’t necessarily help her negotiate with the EU. Are you saying that she purposely negotiated a bad deal?Sorry for my late reply, forgot to check back in this thread. The answer is yes. |
| . 13.03.2019 22:34 |
The legal default of no deal is my choice of outcome. |
| Dr Magus 14.03.2019 11:02 |
The Kurgan wrote: The legal default of no deal is my choice of outcome.Same here. Can't happen now though. What a fucking mess. |
| . 14.03.2019 19:32 |
The legal default in EU and UK law is that the UK will leave without a deal unless something else is agreed. Roll on that day. |
| Thistle 17.03.2019 23:12 |
Many leave voters had valid arguments, and many remain voters had valid arguments. Unfortunately, the referendum also appealed to the racist vote, who thought Brexit would mean getting rid of migrants and "taking their country back". Meanwhile, another element saw some people in Scotland voting tactically in the hope it would trigger another Scottish independence vote, whilst some English voted tactically in the hope that Scotland would get to fuck as a result. Then there were those who didn't have a clue what the fuck they were voting for and thought the colours of the ballot papers looked pretty!! Of course, there are expats who have their opinion too - they're worried about immigration in the UK (the irony of it as they sit in the pubs of Spain and Portugal. Idiots) This is BEFORE we get to the politicians, who largely spoke a lot of drivel, made promises/threats they couldn't back up and had no clue what the plan would be in either outcome. The whole thing is one massive clusterfuck, there's a ball hair of a margin separating both camps - and yes, it should be re-run. It was never a legally binding vote anyway, and such a tight margin should have been looked at. If it's the same outcome, just go with the hard Brexit and cut out the shite. At the end of the day, May's going to fuck us anyway. |
| Nathan H 21.03.2019 20:56 |
I hope they cancel Brexit though it seems just as likely as Deaky performing with Brian and Roger again. I was 14 when the UK chose that they wanted to leave so I couldn't vote. We had a mock referendum at school and more than two-thirds of students chose that they wanted to stay. I just find it so unfair that despite most school kids knowing some of the benefits and drawbacks of Brexit, no one heard our voices despite it being our generation who is going to have most of the affects of Britain not being in the EU. In other words people have decided what my future will be without me having a say. I was a remainer and still am. It's utter shambles with how the government is dealing with Brexit and that has made me want to stay in the EU even more. I think that has put so many people off leaving the EU. It doesn't help with the fact that some politicians including Boris Johnson and Michael Gove LIED to people about some of the benefits of leaving the EU. They just wanted their way. There needs to be another referendum as people did not realise that Brexit would be like this. The next thing I want to happen in three words: revoke Article 50! |
| Nathan H 21.03.2019 20:57 |
I hope they cancel Brexit though it seems just as likely as Deaky performing with Brian and Roger again. I was 14 when the UK chose that they wanted to leave so I couldn't vote. We had a mock referendum at school and more than two-thirds of students chose that they wanted to stay. I just find it so unfair that despite most school kids knowing some of the benefits and drawbacks of Brexit, no one heard our voices despite it being our generation who is going to have most of the affects of Britain not being in the EU. In other words people have decided what my future will be without me having a say. I was a remainer and still am. It's utter shambles with how the government is dealing with Brexit and that has made me want to stay in the EU even more. I think that has put so many people off leaving the EU. It doesn't help with the fact that some politicians including Boris Johnson and Michael Gove LIED to people about some of the benefits of leaving the EU. They just wanted their way. There needs to be another referendum as people did not realise that Brexit would be like this. The next thing I want to happen in three words: revoke Article 50! |
| -fatty- 2850 09.05.2019 21:23 |
Well, technically, that’s two words and a number. |
| . 10.05.2019 18:33 |
... and an exclamation mark. |
| Dr Magus 27.05.2019 13:37 |
Great night for Brexiteers last night. We need to leave on 31st October, deal or no deal. |
| Holly2003 27.05.2019 14:39 |
Dr Magus wrote: Great night for Brexiteers last night. We need to leave on 31st October, deal or no deal.It may have changed by now but last time I checked, more people had voted for remain parties than for brexit. That suggests that a 2nd referendum is what more people want. And that's important because we have much more information available to us now than we did when the original, flawed referendum was held. link |
| Dr Magus 28.05.2019 11:58 |
There were lies told on both sides but one of the biggest lies since is that we didn't know what we were voting for. We did. We voted to leave the EU. If we had another referendum and remain won 52% - 48% what then? A best of three? |
| Holly2003 28.05.2019 13:13 |
None of which changes the basic truth that a few days ago more people voted for remain parties than for brexit parties. |
| Nathan H 28.05.2019 18:17 |
Well if you use the percentages from both the anti-Brexit and pro-Brexit in the last election, the result is approximately 54% to 46%. It's a wider margin than it was in 2016 - people didn't know what they were voting for originally. Hopefully there will be a referendum as I might be able to vote this time. At the end of the day it's my generation whose going to be mostly affected by the decisions made by other people. There are pros and cons for staying and leaving the EU but in my humble opinion there CATASTROPHIC consequences that the UK will experience from leaving the EU. |
| Dr Magus 30.05.2019 09:46 |
Referendums, not elections, are about votes and more than 17 million voted leave. Elections are about seats. I think you'll find the Brexit party won 29 which is more than the lib dems and Greens put together. Brexit party are a single issue party whereas the Lib Dems and Greens aren't. So again, people know what they're voting for. |
| Nathan H 30.05.2019 16:48 |
If there was a referendum now the outcome would be different due to the hesitation that Brexiteers have. This article says a lot: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7075067/Absolute-tosh-Nigel-Farage-loses-temper-claims-REMAIN-parties-won-Euro-elections.html The remain parties was undeniable more popular than the leave parties in the election so that means a lot of people have changed their minds now. In the last election there was more support for the leave campaigns which suggests more people are against Brexit now. I just which I could've voted at the end of the day it's my generation who are going to experience the consequences made by others. It sounds like now that the leave campaign only won by FALSE claims made by Brexiteers including Boris Johnson claiming that if we leave the EU that we will give the NHS an extra £350 million a week even though we don't give the EU anywhere near that figure now. There are plenty of leavers who will have been persuaded by that false figure. |
| Dr Magus 05.06.2019 10:54 |
If you honestly think people voted for brexit based on a slogan that appeared on the side of a bus you are utterly deluding yourself. Typical of some remainers to clutch at straws because they just can't accept they lost. |
| Nathan H 05.06.2019 11:24 |
Dr Magus wrote: If you honestly think people voted for brexit based on a slogan that appeared on the side of a bus you are utterly deluding yourself. Typical of some remainers to clutch at straws because they just can't accept they lost.The NHS was one of the key factors said in the leave campaign on why to leave the EU, so to lie about one of the big issues obviously isn't good. There's not much else said in the leave campaign which is as big or important as the NHS. |
| Day dop 20.06.2019 17:45 |
MusicFan15 wrote: I hope they cancel Brexit though it seems just as likely as Deaky performing with Brian and Roger again. I was 14 when the UK chose that they wanted to leave so I couldn't vote. We had a mock referendum at school and more than two-thirds of students chose that they wanted to stay. I just find it so unfair that despite most school kids knowing some of the benefits and drawbacks of Brexit, no one heard our voices despite it being our generation who is going to have most of the affects of Britain not being in the EU. In other words people have decided what my future will be without me having a say. I was a remainer and still am. It's utter shambles with how the government is dealing with Brexit and that has made me want to stay in the EU even more. I think that has put so many people off leaving the EU. It doesn't help with the fact that some politicians including Boris Johnson and Michael Gove LIED to people about some of the benefits of leaving the EU. They just wanted their way. There needs to be another referendum as people did not realise that Brexit would be like this. The next thing I want to happen in three words: revoke Article 50!You want to go against democracy? And you want the rise of the far right? Because that's what cancelling Brexit would do. |
| Day dop 20.06.2019 17:50 |
MusicFan15 wrote: If there was a referendum now the outcome would be different due to the hesitation that Brexiteers haveNonsense. The Brexity Party wiped the floor with all the other parties at the recent EU elections. Many remain voters are now for leave as they respect democracy regardless and think the result should be implemented as we were told it would be. |
| sundar 10.07.2019 22:19 |
A rarity is always a rarity, never an oddity. Queen were an unforeseen and a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Musically, a breath of fresh air to clean up the stale, dank, polluted atmosphere. Although queen should not have become a bus without a driver, I feel Europe need not become a train without an engine, which it will be if Britain chooses to think only of itself and the value of its pound compared to the value of the euro. But freedom and independence is always better than bondage and dependence, but there is true freedom only in generosity and in selflessness, never in greed and in selfishness, which only leads to bondage. |
| The Real Mary Austin 21.07.2019 00:38 |
As Karl Marx once analogously said: „We write our history first as tragedy and the second time as a farce“. Please english people, leave the EU, sell your NHS to the US and be happy with what you voted for. No one in the world can take that miserable little island off the coast of France seriously anymore. What a bunch of priggish creatures the English have become. Pathetic! |
| Day dop 22.09.2019 04:04 |
The Real Mary Austin wrote: As Karl Marx once analogously said: „We write our history first as tragedy and the second time as a farce“. Please english people, leave the EU, sell your NHS to the US and be happy with what you voted for. No one in the world can take that miserable little island off the coast of France seriously anymore. What a bunch of priggish creatures the English have become. Pathetic!You sound like you got out the wrong side of bed. |