| Mr Prime Jive 14.10.2018 11:14 |
I always been fascinated by the idea of songs being "trapped" in a period of time and all the production "tics" associated to hit singles back then. What about "Hammer To Fall" recorded for News Of The World, or Killer Queen on Innuendo - just to stretch the idea. In the process, many good songs from many artists got "lost" thus deserving the songwriting intentions more than anything else. There this trend going on in "unproducing" 80's albums. I could think first about Lennon/Ono's Double Fantasy which got rid of unnecessary embelishment for a sparser, more honest sound, probably truer to the original musical intentions. Recently (I mean yesterday) came out the very interesting version of David Bowie's "Never Let Me Down" dubbed by himself as his "Phil Collins" Album. The songs were always there but crunched under tons of digital crap - partly thanks to David Richards (heard that name before) and Erdal Kizilcay (here arranger). So now, we know Mack was printing effects on tape (verbs, ambiances, phasers, EQ's...), which makes difficult to remove anything back, but still, the idea of reproducing an album like Hot Space to see what's under, keeping vocals, bass and some guitars then adding leaner - more organic elements to the mix is something i find exciting. That was my 2.50 cents. |
| dysan 14.10.2018 11:32 |
Always interesting to ponder. However, what makes NLMD and HS what they are is 50% the sound. I like them for it - the whole package. In the same way I love the sound of Queen 1 and Space Oddity (1969) because they SOUND like where and when they were made. You could argue NLMD has better songs on it than SO (likewise HS / Q1) but gets a worse rap because it wasn't made by a person in the 60s struggling to make it in the business and all the glamour that conjures up. The '80s sound' is synonymous with bloated corporate Thatcherism and bad hair. Much less sexy! Interestingly NLMD was considered a massive return to form by the man himself and the reviews. However that crumbled soon after (he was by that point a dinosaur overdue a kicking after his 80s films) when the weeklies got hold of the albums and accompanying tour and ridiculed the 'Dame'. So straight away, his confidence shot, he turned on the record himself and the myth then self perpetuates. People hearing it for the first time at any point since, I dunno 1990? will listen to it with the mindset of it being his worst album. They then become reviewers and repeat the cycle of negativity 5 years later. He made worse records before and since but that is the one which is the cartoon 'worst'. Objectively, it's an album from 1987 and that can't be changed. Unfortunately this new version sounds exactly like the bland tired try-hard sound of Reality and The Next Day. NLMD was due a reappraisal and now it won't get one on it's own terms. He bottled it. The great 'what if' now has an answer and then we move on. 99% of the world who have an opinion on 1987 Bowie will not change that. |
| Michael Scapp 14.10.2018 13:28 |
I think it's a really good idea. It's hard to argue with what a good job Queen had done with Freddie's abysmal solo output on the MIH album. Also, a great example is the posthumous Michael Jackson album Xscape, where his songs were given a much fresher production. Or if you're talking about more of as stripped down approach, like Double Fantasy, that could be just as interesting too. |
| princetom 14.10.2018 21:19 |
actually i'm not the biggest fan of "there must be more to live than this" which is a great song on "mr. bad guy" but massively fails in the 2010s' production. it's the question which producer lays hand on a legacy. william orbit surely is a great man and does good on what he does. on the other hand... he kind of ruined that song for me. just my 2c. p.s.: the whole "made in heaven" project imho. was a great one. utterly different, maybe overproduced, but sounded like queen like any other of their albums. whether you like it or not. |
| dysan 14.10.2018 21:29 |
I'm not a fan of MIH. It all sounded dated in 1995. Perhaps 90s production will sound worse to future ears than 80s production? |
| aristide1 16.10.2018 16:51 |
"... keeping vocals, bass and some guitars then adding leaner - more organic elements to the mix ..." What organic elements, manure? From Queen point of view, you're a total fuck who lives under a multitude of delusions. The first one is to consider yourself a Queen fan. Another one is the firm belief that there is more to Hot Space than Hot Space, and the remaining band members (or some third party) should "reproduce" the album to suit your tastes. No serious artist would do that, and no serious fan would ask for. Otherwise, congratulations for a fine piece of literature - a lot of fiction with poetic flavour and some mystery (not much because we already know who killed the album). |
| The Real Wizard 16.10.2018 17:29 |
aristide1 wrote: "... keeping vocals, bass and some guitars then adding leaner - more organic elements to the mix ..." What organic elements, manure? From Queen point of view, you're a total fuck who lives under a multitude of delusions. The first one is to consider yourself a Queen fan. Another one is the firm belief that there is more to Hot Space than Hot Space, and the remaining band members (or some third party) should "reproduce" the album to suit your tastes. No serious artist would do that, and no serious fan would ask for. Otherwise, congratulations for a fine piece of literature - a lot of fiction with poetic flavour and some mystery (not much because we already know who killed the album).So I take it you didn't like Let It Be Naked? |
| aristide1 16.10.2018 17:35 |
I prefer Somebody to Love Naked. |
| Wiley 17.10.2018 01:33 |
It was about time someone mentioned Let it be... Naked. I think it's a great version but I'm still partial to the original wall of sound production, in particular, The Long and Winding Road (Sue me, McCartney!). The good thing is... we have both! I've been listening to Never Let Me Down, both 1987 and 2018 versions, the last couple of days in my car and I really don't see what's so wrong about it, with either version. Hot Space? My first proper Queen CD, simultaneously with Races. It will always have a special place in my heart. I like the production of it. If anything, it's problem is with some instrumentation aspects. Would be curious to hear it remixed and maybe even with some different instrumentation but sadly I don't think it will ever happen. |
| dysan 17.10.2018 08:52 |
Bowie also had 1979s Lodger posthumously remixed on the last boxset. I agree it's a nice experiment, but I feel the weight of expectation is sometimes just too much for what the 'new' take will be. I like the albums being as authentic as possible so I don't have issues with the flaws, annoying as they might be :) |
| Dr Magus 17.10.2018 10:21 |
I listened to Crimson's Discipline album yesterday. Can't believe how fresh and crisp it still sounds. It was made in three weeks in spring 81 but sounds like it could have been recorded last week. |
| Michael Allred 17.10.2018 11:54 |
Brian and Roger will never again go into the studio and put in the time, work and artistic effort again for any kind of project like giving an old album a makeover. They'll also never do a new album again, with or without Lambert. After the failure of "The Cosmos Rocks" they have convinced themselves that nobody wants anything new from them even though that thinking has little basis in reality. |
| Dr Magus 18.10.2018 10:23 |
Maybe they realised that, while they can get other musicians and singers to do the songs on stage, Queen as a creative force was the four members. With two of those members missing it wasn't the same. I suppose in that context it makes sense for them to just concentrate on playing the songs that millions want to hear. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 18.10.2018 10:42 |
Well, you have demos with more guitars solos from Brian, etc... I think Hot Space is perfect like it was recorded and produced by Mack. And for example, Mr. Bad Guy has some good songs, all the vocals great, but it was produced horribly. In part, because Freddie was not entirely focused in the album when he recorded it...Too many distractions in Munich with Barbara and Paul. And...There most...is great in Mr. Bad Guy, but the two Frankenstein versions in this Millenium (the version from the documentary The Great Pretender, and the "Queen" version)...not my cup of tea. |
| *goodco* 18.10.2018 11:21 |
aristide1 wrote: "... keeping vocals, bass and some guitars then adding leaner - more organic elements to the mix ..." What organic elements, manure? From Queen point of view, you're a total fuck who lives under a multitude of delusions. The first one is to consider yourself a Queen fan. Another one is the firm belief that there is more to Hot Space than Hot Space, and the remaining band members (or some third party) should "reproduce" the album to suit your tastes. No serious artist would do that, and no serious fan would ask for.Count me, then, as a 'total f*ck' and not a 'serious fan', because I would have loved to have heard a different 'Hot Space' mix.......from the moment I heard the album 36 years ago. Geez, no one ever considered redoing the 'Barcelona' LP, did they? |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 18.10.2018 12:18 |
Barcelona goodco...the new edition is, like Mike Moran said, a piece of shit. That album was perfect how it was published. Not needed the orchestra. The new version deleted a lot of arrangements... About insulting... |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 18.10.2018 12:19 |
Sorry. About insulting...it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie and not discuss with insults. |
| aristide1 18.10.2018 14:07 |
*goodco* wrote: I would have loved to have heard a different 'Hot Space' mix.......from the moment I heard the album 36 years ago.A different mix of the same tracks, or a mix with different uncomposed, unplayed and unrecorded tracks, also known as ANOTHER ALBUM? We are all philosophers when it comes to Hot Space, but it's a great 1982 album and it was our mistake to wait for a sequel of ANATO. |
| darcy-wright 19.10.2018 09:17 |
man theres alot of nasty people on here. most of hot space would / could / should be jazzed up. staying power is a bit thin, compare it to the live version and that kills. |
| dysan 19.10.2018 09:19 |
Depends what you like. Dreamers Ball on Jazz sounds thicker than the live version but doesn't mean it's better. |
| Pim Derks 19.10.2018 19:54 |
I'd love a remix of Innuendo in the style of Made In Heaven/Cosmos Rocks. Replace ICLWY with the 1997 version. Remove Delilah. Add Lost Opportunity. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 19.10.2018 23:03 |
Lost Opportunity is a very bad blues song... |