QueenZone discussion #1511282

Holly2003 wrote: So there used to be a lot of political/current affairs debate on QZ. There is though hardly any discussion about the present incumbent in the White House. I wonder why that is? Is he such an utter degenerate that it seems pointless to discuss him?

I don't think it's possible to come back from this. Things will get worse, not better.

Holly2003 wrote: I lived in the US on 2 separate occasions for a total of about 6 years. In that time I can count on the fingers of one hand people I didn't like. Almost everyone I met was open, generous, friendly and thoughtful. Now sadly I have to rethink my view of Americans. Large numbers voted this disgusting pig into office and he still has a lot of support.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Holly2003 wrote: I lived in the US on 2 separate occasions for a total of about 6 years. In that time I can count on the fingers of one hand people I didn't like. Almost everyone I met was open, generous, friendly and thoughtful. Now sadly I have to rethink my view of Americans. Large numbers voted this disgusting pig into office and he still has a lot of support.

I'm curious - where did you live?

Holly2003 wrote: If anything, the rural conservatives I met were friendlier than the city liberals. That's what probably disappoints me the most now. Why has that good-natured conservatism turned into the vindictive mindset that allowed Trump to gain power.

john bodega wrote: I just know I haven't had to look at the Onion since 2015. News as fruity as it has been in the past three years barely needs a running commentary or analysis.

"You guys completely ignore the failures of Obama" Says who?? Haha. What a muppet.

ParisNair wrote: The very lop-sided views expressed by Trump-haters is off-putting for me. You guys completely ignore the failures of Obama and the fraud carried out by Hillary et al under his watch.

Jeremy wrote: President Trump is shaping up to be the greatest US president in modern history. Our recovery (economic/defense/infrastructure/foreign affairs...etc) is happening at a pace that few thought possible. As President Obama asked, "What magic wand do you have?" (To improve the uncertain economy, low GDP, etc.) I've been really really impressed with him.

Jeremy wrote: I'll address pittrek first (I'd use quotes if I saw a "quote" function...how do you quote, man?) I've gotten this response before, usually when I say "I support the president" I get "You cannot be serious GTFO troll." I don't believe in trolling. It's a huge waste of time. This president has an entire arm of propagandist media against him because their girl who favored them lost. We'll get into examples of this later. For john bodega: For starters: ECONOMIC The L.A. Times: "If Trump thinks he can get more than 3% economic growth, he's dreaming" link Reuters: "Atlanta Fed upgrades U.S. second quarter GDP view to 4.7 percent" link Not to mention Black and Latino unemployment are at the lowest levels they have been in American history, with overall unemployment the lowest in 17 years. link Consumer confidence is at an almost 18 year high. link DEFENSE Military leaders came to President Trump and said that they were sorely in need of new military equipment and technology, that in some cases they were still using decades-old equipment. link He recognized that if you don't have a formidable military, you don't have a country, so he signed into law the a 700 billion dollar military spending bill to completely renew and replenish the equipment and technology of the US military as well as give pay raises to the troops. link INFRASTRUCTURE President Trump is determined to repair, rebuild, and expand our United States roadways, seaports, airports, and municipal and governmental facilities. link FOREIGN AFFAIRS In a huge step towards world peace, President Trump held a summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un, which, in exchange for cutting back on joint US-South Korean military training exercises, President Trump secured the commitment of the North Korean leader to the complete denuclearization of the country, the dismantling of all missile testing facilities, as well as the return of the remains of US soldiers who had fallen in the Korean War. link link link Also, President Trump is massively popular in China, having been bestowed the honor of being the first foreign leader to dine in the Forbidden City since the founding of modern China. link link link Such is the case as well in South Korea, being introduced as "the leader of the world" during a state visit there. link This is really the tip of the iceberg and only time prevents me from listing many more accomplishments that would be proudly touted by any president. I'm sure we'll get into more as we discuss further.

Jeremy wrote: I'll address pittrek first (I'd use quotes if I saw a "quote" function...how do you quote, man?) I've gotten this response before, usually when I say "I support the president" I get "You cannot be serious GTFO troll." I don't believe in trolling. It's a huge waste of time. This president has an entire arm of propagandist media against him because their girl who favored them lost. We'll get into examples of this later. For john bodega: For starters: ECONOMIC The L.A. Times: "If Trump thinks he can get more than 3% economic growth, he's dreaming" link Reuters: "Atlanta Fed upgrades U.S. second quarter GDP view to 4.7 percent" link Not to mention Black and Latino unemployment are at the lowest levels they have been in American history, with overall unemployment the lowest in 17 years. link Consumer confidence is at an almost 18 year high. link DEFENSE Military leaders came to President Trump and said that they were sorely in need of new military equipment and technology, that in some cases they were still using decades-old equipment. link He recognized that if you don't have a formidable military, you don't have a country, so he signed into law the a 700 billion dollar military spending bill to completely renew and replenish the equipment and technology of the US military as well as give pay raises to the troops. link INFRASTRUCTURE President Trump is determined to repair, rebuild, and expand our United States roadways, seaports, airports, and municipal and governmental facilities. link FOREIGN AFFAIRS In a huge step towards world peace, President Trump held a summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un, which, in exchange for cutting back on joint US-South Korean military training exercises, President Trump secured the commitment of the North Korean leader to the complete denuclearization of the country, the dismantling of all missile testing facilities, as well as the return of the remains of US soldiers who had fallen in the Korean War. link link link Also, President Trump is massively popular in China, having been bestowed the honor of being the first foreign leader to dine in the Forbidden City since the founding of modern China. link link link Such is the case as well in South Korea, being introduced as "the leader of the world" during a state visit there. link This is really the tip of the iceberg and only time prevents me from listing many more accomplishments that would be proudly touted by any president. I'm sure we'll get into more as we discuss further.

Jeremy wrote: I'll address pittrek first (I'd use quotes if I saw a "quote" function...how do you quote, man?) I've gotten this response before, usually when I say "I support the president" I get "You cannot be serious GTFO troll." I don't believe in trolling. It's a huge waste of time. This president has an entire arm of propagandist media against him because their girl who favored them lost. We'll get into examples of this later. For john bodega: For starters: ECONOMIC The L.A. Times: "If Trump thinks he can get more than 3% economic growth, he's dreaming" link Reuters: "Atlanta Fed upgrades U.S. second quarter GDP view to 4.7 percent" link Not to mention Black and Latino unemployment are at the lowest levels they have been in American history, with overall unemployment the lowest in 17 years. link Consumer confidence is at an almost 18 year high. link DEFENSE Military leaders came to President Trump and said that they were sorely in need of new military equipment and technology, that in some cases they were still using decades-old equipment. link He recognized that if you don't have a formidable military, you don't have a country, so he signed into law the a 700 billion dollar military spending bill to completely renew and replenish the equipment and technology of the US military as well as give pay raises to the troops. link INFRASTRUCTURE President Trump is determined to repair, rebuild, and expand our United States roadways, seaports, airports, and municipal and governmental facilities. link FOREIGN AFFAIRS In a huge step towards world peace, President Trump held a summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un, which, in exchange for cutting back on joint US-South Korean military training exercises, President Trump secured the commitment of the North Korean leader to the complete denuclearization of the country, the dismantling of all missile testing facilities, as well as the return of the remains of US soldiers who had fallen in the Korean War. link link link Also, President Trump is massively popular in China, having been bestowed the honor of being the first foreign leader to dine in the Forbidden City since the founding of modern China. link link link Such is the case as well in South Korea, being introduced as "the leader of the world" during a state visit there. link This is really the tip of the iceberg and only time prevents me from listing many more accomplishments that would be proudly touted by any president. I'm sure we'll get into more as we discuss further.

pittrek wrote: I'm sorry, I tried to post a response but the forum is fucked :-( Sorry, but when editing an existing post causes a new post with the same content, I don't have the nerves for writing it again

pittrek wrote: Recommended viewing for people who for some reason can't understand why Trump won - this is one of the reasons : link

john bodega wrote: "blame the intellectual elite libtards, Mexicans, or Muslims"

The Real Wizard wrote: Americans are fucking dumb. 3/4 of them vote Republican or not at all.

Panchgani wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Americans are fucking dumb. 3/4 of them vote Republican or not at all.

3/4? Really? LOL Then why did Trump get <50% of the popular vote?

The Real Wizard wrote: Americans are fucking dumb. 3/4 of them vote Republican or not at all.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: As a royally embarrassed American living in the heart of New York City, I say Americans are Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Independents, Communists, Socialists, and more. Above all, Americans are lazy and entitled. Americans are shortsighted and insular. Americans are arrogant and ignorant, believing politics are local, that raising a torch will get them what they want - and what they want is for their personal worldview to become law for everyone. Americans have no patience for another side's opinion or point of view; instead, Americans demand to have their side heard, understood and followed. Compromise? What? Why?

The Real Wizard wrote: over half of America is now living in third world conditions

The Real Wizard wrote: Something went desperately wrong these past 50 years, and most Americans are just too stupid to even know how to ask why, or to even know that anything is wrong.

The Real Wizard wrote: For one to win, others must lose.

The Real Wizard wrote: As George Carlin said: "the American Dream - you have to be asleep to believe it."

The Real Wizard wrote: But for most Americans it's my way or the highway, because they have had a sense of personal and nationalistic superiority bred into them since they were six. Virtually every American classroom has a giant map of the USA, but not a globe humbly showing America's place amongst everyone else. This arrogant exceptionalism permeates so much of American life.

The Real Wizard wrote: Something went desperately wrong these past 50 years, and most Americans are just too stupid to even know how to ask why, or to even know that anything is wrong.

The Real Wizard wrote: It's sad to watch a once great empire fall.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: I'm sorry there are no quotes attributing your words to you in my post above, Real Wizard. I tried to format it properly but didn't see the option to quote (or to edit my own post for that matter).

tcc wrote:

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: I'm sorry there are no quotes attributing your words to you in my post above, Real Wizard. I tried to format it properly but didn't see the option to quote (or to edit my own post for that matter).

The icons for Edit, Reply, and Reply with Quote are still next to the time line of the post. They are just invisible but if you place your cursor after the time of the post, you can see the words for the invisible icons for Edit, Reply and Reply with Quote

Panchgani wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: over half of America is now living in third world conditions

Really??? Hyperbole perhaps?? Source?? The following source on "percent below the poverty line" might be closer to reality ... US is 15% (comparable to much of western europe (and a far cry from 50%) link

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: As George Carlin said: "the American Dream - you have to be asleep to believe it."

I get the point of this but believe the opposite – to believe in the American Dream you have to keep your eyes open and work for it –and not just for yourself but for your community as well. Imagine if we all did that.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: With someone else to blame, we’re able to redirect our fatigue and frustration thus making us feel better about ourselves. It’s US vs THEM. It’s disgusting but it’s true, and it works, and there’s no shaking common sense into those who buy into the idea.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Panchgani wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: over half of America is now living in third world conditions

Really??? Hyperbole perhaps?? Source?? The following source on "percent below the poverty line" might be closer to reality ... US is 15% (comparable to much of western europe (and a far cry from 50%) link

Right at the top it says - "rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations." So if you call the US a rich nation, then you need to at least double that 15%. And note that "third world conditions" and "poverty" are not necessarily the same thing. So instead of cherry picking statistics to ignore the reality of the majority of your countrymen, I invite you to give these a spin: link link "Every piece of the pie picked up by the 0.1 percent, in relative terms, had to come from the people below. But not everyone in the 99.9 percent gave up a slice. Only those in the bottom 90 percent did. At their peak, in the mid-1980s, people in this group held 35 percent of the nation’s wealth. Three decades later that had fallen 12 points—exactly as much as the wealth of the 0.1 percent rose." In other words - 10% of America has been able to maintain the lifestyle it had 50 years ago. That's a pretty good indication of where things are at. If you want to deny that the middle class has been steadily shrinking for the last several decades, that's your prerogative. Chances are you're in that 9.9% between the bottom 90 and the top 0.1, and you just aren't in a position to notice because you're one of the few lucky ones.

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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS! 5:24 - 23. 7. 2018

pittrek wrote: Not some nonsensical claims about his alleged racism, or misogyny, or other crap the media accuses him from without providing any evidence.

Haemophilia Love wrote: The so-called alternative to soak and tax the rich is not any better.

Americans have long had a fascination with the extremely wealthy. All too often, a high net worth is seen as a proxy for intelligence, success and even virtue. Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign was built in no small part on his supposed achievements as a real estate magnate and business leader, along with his billionaire status

The Real Wizard wrote:

pittrek wrote: Not some nonsensical claims about his alleged racism, or misogyny, or other crap the media accuses him from without providing any evidence.

You mean the video where he said he could sexually assault women because he's famous?

You mean where he said he said white supremacists were equal to the people fighting white supremacists?

You mean when he was endorsed by white supremacists, and didn't speak out against them?

You mean when he just endorsed a white supremacist last month? link

Trump doesn't need the media to look like a misogynist or a white supremacist. He's doing just fine all on his own.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Americans have long had a fascination with the extremely wealthy. All too often, a high net worth is seen as a proxy for intelligence, success and even virtue. Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign was built in no small part on his supposed achievements as a real estate magnate and business leader, along with his billionaire status

And this is pretty much everything that is wrong with America. Plenty of other countries have tabloid culture and all that, but the American Dream mentality compounds it by convincing people from birth that achieving wealth is more important than anything else, including improving society as a whole. Even the mere act of receiving help is stigmatized as weakness, hence the mass hysteria against anything that remotely resembles "socialism".

pittrek wrote: That's not my point. My point is that this dumbass threatens to basically start a nuclear war, but people care more about some stupid shit he said in a private conversation a decade ago.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Haemophilia Love wrote: The so-called alternative to soak and tax the rich is not any better.

You're right. Because you can't take something away from anyone once they have it. Once you lower that corporate tax rate, it's there for good. If you raise it again, that money will end up in Swiss bank accounts.

pittrek wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote:

Americans have long had a fascination with the extremely wealthy. All too often, a high net worth is seen as a proxy for intelligence, success and even virtue. Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign was built in no small part on his supposed achievements as a real estate magnate and business leader, along with his billionaire status

And this is pretty much everything that is wrong with America. Plenty of other countries have tabloid culture and all that, but the American Dream mentality compounds it by convincing people from birth that achieving wealth is more important than anything else, including improving society as a whole. Even the mere act of receiving help is stigmatized as weakness, hence the mass hysteria against anything that remotely resembles "socialism".

I don't agree, I think there is NOT ENOUGH hysteria about socialism. It makes me very sad that more and more Americans are saying PROUDLY that they are socialists. There is only one possible result of socialism - millions of dead people. It's not a bug, it's a feature. But maybe these people SHOULD try to live in a socialist country - and I mean a REAL socialist country, not a capitalist country with a strong social system, maybe living every day in fear that one of your neighbors or even your family members is a secret agent and will report you to the officials, or maybe the freedom to chose if you want to eat once or twice a day, or the freedom to chose if the day in the month that you can eat meat (unless you know the correct people, in that case you could have meat one day each week), or maybe not having not only their iphones and ipads, but things like toilet paper most of the year, maybe this would cure these people from socialist tendencies? But maybe they would be happy that everybody is equally poor (except for the politicians of course).

pittrek wrote: No, if you're talking about the Charlottsville attack, he didn't say that. He said that there were good people on both sides and there were bad people on both sides.

pittrek wrote: But maybe these people SHOULD try to live in a socialist country - and I mean a REAL socialist country, not a capitalist country with a strong social system

Saint Jiub wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote:

Haemophilia Love wrote: The so-called alternative to soak and tax the rich is not any better.

You're right. Because you can't take something away from anyone once they have it. Once you lower that corporate tax rate, it's there for good. If you raise it again, that money will end up in Swiss bank accounts.

Definitely not true ... link "At the heart of the deal are some of the biggest tax changes in years, including an increase in tax rates for couples with incomes over $450,000, to 39.6%. For those same households, capital-gains and dividend taxes would increase to 20%, from 15%. Estate taxes would increase from 35% to 40%."

pittrek wrote:

Trump doesn't need the media to look like a misogynist or a white supremacist. He's doing just fine all on his own.

That's not my point. My point is that this dumbass threatens to basically start a nuclear war, but people care more about some stupid shit he said in a private conversation a decade ago.

Saint Jiub wrote: Trump will not be impeached because of "collusion", He will be impeached after the midterms by a landslide with Republican support because of a Playboy bunny ... after Trump destroys the economy with his stupid world trade tariff fiasco. link