QueenZone discussion #1507651
How much effort in creating a setlist and changing it
| fras444 12.05.2018 07:26 |
When Queen started a tour be it a new album or halfway through a tour for a album to come out. How much effort behind the scenes was there in sorting out a setlist and adding or removing songs throughout the tour? Did Queen have the ability just to jam out a few songs during a gig?? Could they just randomly put a whole performance of White Queen during their Hotspace tour or crank out Ogre Battle during tbe Magic tour |
| Cruella de Vil 12.05.2018 09:57 |
Could...maybe, likelihood, extremely slim. Examples: Ogre Battle early US NOTW tour in 1977; Hangman, Son and Daughter Japan 1976, For the most part, they liked to be well rehearsed. As the Queen machine grew, the whole programming of lighting and other production add ons got in the way of such freedoms. So now, rather than add songs to the set, the drop them and play safe. |
| Vocal harmony 12.05.2018 12:22 |
It was only in the mid to late 80's that programmable lighting really began to become available industry wide. Having said that Genesis toured in the early 80's with the first Varilite rig, although advanced for the time that original system has been copied and improved no end. Yes with today's lighting and video systems it is possible to press go then sit back with your feet on the edge of the desk and switch it all off two hours later at the end of the gig. It would take a very brave operator working with metronomic band to get away with this. Most systems work by programming each song separately, but also with the freedom to manually take over if something changes mid song. It wouldn't be impossible to change songs around or even add something. What is difficult with the current Queen show is that the show is built around a lot of moving parts (lifts, props, two mobile video screens) and therefor has to be rehearsed to the finest detail. Throughout the original lineups touring years the bulk of the lighting was made up of manually operated par cans, and from a light prospective it would have been easy to change songs around or introduced new material at short notice. As a band yes they could have played most things at short notice from the list of songs they chose to play live. The thing is something unrehearsed would sound unrehearsed and lose around the edges and just wouldn't be what they did. |
| Fireplace 12.05.2018 17:53 |
Four out of the six musicians on stage have probably never played White Queen before in their lives. It is oh so very 21st century to think of the lighting programming as the main stumbling block, but it would only work if you play the CD afterward. The actual music still needs to be played by practised musicians. Unless you think AL knows every Queen lyric ever recorded by heatt? |
| Biggus Dickus 12.05.2018 19:26 |
It's a bad excuse to say that because of the light show etc. you can't change the set list. It's pure laziness getting used to being comfortable. Bands like Metallica and Bruce Springsteen change a lot of their set from show to show. The crowd isn't there to watch the lights, but to hear the band play. Of course if the band is too lazy to prepare more songs than they play each night, they're not able to play stuff off the cuff. |
| fras444 12.05.2018 21:43 |
The lightening topic is very interesting... I guess this question goes from 71 (albeit a hand full of songs) to now.... but more during their original lineup..... (classic lineup) How hard is it to just jam out a song that they played for a best part of their earlier live shows... What would happened if... For arguments sake.... Halfway through one of their gigs during the Hotspace tour. Freddie decides to start the lines "SO SAD, HER EYES, SMILING...." Could the rest of the band follow suit and pick up from their very recent memories of how to play White Queen? It was only three or four years earlier that they played it basically non stop for four years.... How hard could it be for a very well oiled band that had never broken up, who all played their part on that song and played it live for a very long time. I guess like for example.. Led Zep. Their chemistry allowed them to jam out songs and being that they never changed their lineup, I thought that Queen had the potential to do the same too. |
| Jekaling 13.05.2018 09:08 |
During the HS tour there were several shows were Freddie started with the first few lines of SYW, the band followed... link link |
| Vocal harmony 13.05.2018 11:12 |
fras444 wrote: The lightening topic is very interesting... I guess this question goes from 71 (albeit a hand full of songs) to now.... but more during their original lineup..... (classic lineup) How hard is it to just jam out a song that they played for a best part of their earlier live shows... What would happened if... For arguments sake.... Halfway through one of their gigs during the Hotspace tour. Freddie decides to start the lines "SO SAD, HER EYES, SMILING...." Could the rest of the band follow suit and pick up from their very recent memories of how to play White Queen? It was only three or four years earlier that they played it basically non stop for four years.... How hard could it be for a very well oiled band that had never broken up, who all played their part on that song and played it live for a very long time. I guess like for example.. Led Zep. Their chemistry allowed them to jam out songs and being that they never changed their lineup, I thought that Queen had the potential to do the same too.In my post I pointed out that even using a computerised system of lighting changes it would still be possible to manually operate the system to allow changes. The problem Queen have is the show architecture, the moving elements and the connection from one song scene to the next. You mention Springsteen, his show is designed to sit loosely together, it rely son little big lighting effects and interchangeable light and video. You also mention Metallica. Yes they do change their setlist around, but the Poor Touring Me shows on the back of Load were heavily rehearsed and had little to no movement in the way the show played out for the exact reasons the current Queen show is fairly rigid. |
| Vocal harmony 13.05.2018 11:14 |
^^^ sorry the above reply was supposed to quote Biggus Dickus. It was to his post I was replying. |
| The Real Wizard 13.05.2018 15:19 |
Biggus Dickus wrote: It's a bad excuse to say that because of the light show etc. you can't change the set list. It's pure laziness getting used to being comfortable.It's not so much laziness as just keeping what works and turfing what doesn't. Some bands like having a rotating setlist of 75 songs, and some bands like to have one show that works. Both are valid methodologies, especially considering the average person goes to see a band once on a tour, not eight times. Not that it really matters, anyway - some Rush fans would see them play the exact same show 15 times on a tour and still say it was the greatest thing ever. So everyone wins, really. |
| The Real Wizard 13.05.2018 15:24 |
fras444 wrote: How much effort behind the scenes was there in sorting out a setlist and adding or removing songs throughout the tour?Not a ton. 99% of the work was done before the tour. They'd rehearse the show as it is, and sometimes dropped one or two songs that didn't work. And if they wanted to add a song (like Doing All Right in 77 or White Queen in 78), they would rehearse it at soundchecks until it was stage ready. The only tours with rotating setlists were News Of The World, Crazy, and Hot Space, where they'd have 2 or 3 songs that went back and forth each night. But they usually just stuck to a complete show that worked. Did Queen have the ability just to jam out a few songs during a gig?? Could they just randomly put a whole performance of White Queen during their Hotspace tour or crank out Ogre Battle during tbe Magic tourAbsolutely not. They weren't studio type players who could do Steely Dan sessions, and they didn't have photographic memories. They were best as writers and arrangers, but they had to rehearse extensively to take a show on the road. I'm a musician. Some songs I can play after years of having not played them, but others are gone if I haven't played them in a few months. Most bands need to rehearse if they're going to pull off something new, especially if they're in an arena playing for 15,000 people. Nobody wants to get reviews like this one: |
| dudeofqueen 14.05.2018 08:46 |
The Real Wizard, re: >It's not so much laziness as just keeping what works and turfing what doesn't. Structure over substance. When greater consideration is paid to the bells and whistles (lights and back projection screens) that have to sync perfectly as opposed to the latent uncertainty and danger of a fluid set list, then it's time to duck out and wave bye bye to the concert experience. Smacks to me of bands that aren't wholly certain of their ability to just play music as opposed to putting on a flashy show to distract from what happens there on the stage. It's destroyed The Who's stage presence whilst Springsteen has continued to shock and surprise in equal measure. "Brian May's Selfie Stick"? For fuck's SAKE! |
| cmsdrums 14.05.2018 15:38 |
From today the setlists are VERY fluid.....Fat Bottomed Girls was played in 73/74 according to a setlist featured in a trailer for the BR movie......... |
| Vocal harmony 16.05.2018 12:25 |
dudeofqueen wrote: The Real Wizard, re: >It's not so much laziness as just keeping what works and turfing what doesn't. Structure over substance. When greater consideration is paid to the bells and whistles (lights and back projection screens) that have to sync perfectly as opposed to the latent uncertainty and danger of a fluid set list, then it's time to duck out and wave bye bye to the concert experience. Smacks to me of bands that aren't wholly certain of their ability to just play music as opposed to putting on a flashy show to distract from what happens there on the stage. . . . "Brian May's Selfie Stick"? For fuck's SAKE!Sounds like the sort of criticism that was levelled at them in the 70's. " it's about the show not the music"! It's actually about both and giving the live audience something exciting and not everyday. The selfie stick is a direct link for the audience to Brian. Rock shows are about utilising technology. . . If that criticism is being aimed at Queen. . . What about Roger Waters, Madonna, Nine Inch Nails, U2, Genesis, Tool the Killers, The Rolling Stones and any number of bands that use lighting and video. One other small point, you mention back projection. Queen are not using back projection. In the 60's journalist critics claimed that the use of lighting and lighting effects and volume was being used to cover a lack of musicianship. Isn't that where your view belongs. |