Pro-shot footage of Liar from some 1974-75 show

Hangman_96 07.01.2018 18:25	Thought I'd bring this to everyone's attention. It may look like the Tokyo show from May 1, 1975, as the film's quality is identical to what has been circulating from the aforementioned show for years, but it's not. I have compared it to an audience recording from that date and it doesn't match the phrasing. Looks very similar to the Rainbow but it doesn't match the video from the recent 2014 release, unless it's from a different angle and I've gone blind over the years, but Freddie's movements seem to be different and the lighting rig has the band here mostly in reddish colours, whereas it's mostly green at that point of the song at the Rainbow. The only reasonable guess is the other night at the Rainbow. If not, it could get rather interesting. Sorry if it's been posted here before. It's my first post here in like two years or so. And the video: link
Hangman_96 07.01.2018 18:29	Also worth paying attention to is the camerawork, which is much worse here than that at the Rainbow.
DepeX 07.01.2018 18:57	I would swear I have never seen it before.
NastyQueenie74 07.01.2018 19:48	Got a 404 page
little foetus 07.01.2018 19:50	Really looks like the Rainbow to me. Different night? I'm not an expert at all in Queen videos but I can't remember having seen this one before.
pittrek 07.01.2018 20:14	So what does the clip itself tell us? 2 cameras were used. Both of them seem hand-held. And shot from the first row (at least one of them) - you can see some heads of audience members. There is a TV logo blurred at the top left corner of the screen. The performance is late 1974 or early 1975. Which means I don't think it's Rainbow, and it comes from a TV report about some concert. Judging purely by these facts I would GUESS it's from non-UK concert from the 1974/1975 era
little foetus 07.01.2018 20:25	That's when i see I'm definitely not an expert in videos. :D Nice catch about the blurred TV logo. Why do you guess it is a non-UK concert?
Chopin1995 07.01.2018 20:43	Interesting! This can't be Rainbow because the lights are different. I compared this to both nights (Official release and the 'power-cut' segment from the 2nd night). Ghostwithasmile might know the answer.
pittrek 07.01.2018 20:48	Guessing only from the fact that all known TV reports are from other countries
Chopin1995 07.01.2018 20:51	And this is not Tokyo 5/1. Compare 0:30 in this video to 4:37 here - link
Chinwonder2 07.01.2018 20:58	The camera angle I think looks very similar to this footage, which is from the 2nd night at the Rainbow: Thoughts? -Chin
Nitroboy 07.01.2018 21:14	Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film.
musicland munich 07.01.2018 21:18	The source ( not necessarily place of the gig ) could be german TV. The guy ( most likely german or austrian) also added a "Szene75" Video on the same day in same length from a different act.
Chief Mouse 07.01.2018 21:18	Nitroboy wrote: Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film. Yes, indeed!
Chinwonder2 07.01.2018 21:21	Chief Mouse wrote: Nitroboy wrote: Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film. Yes, indeed! Well, that rules out everything we currently know haha -Chin
little foetus 07.01.2018 22:32	Chinwonder2 wrote: The camera angle I think looks very similar to this footage, which is from the 2nd night at the Rainbow: Thoughts? -Chin that's exactly the video that made me think it would be from the Rainbow. :)
The Real Wizard 07.01.2018 22:53	Wow - what a great find ! It's definitely from the Rainbow. It matches that "uncut" audio (the 3 song version - SAD, SCC, Liar) as well as the recent official release. What's interesting is this reveals that there's a vocal overdub at 3:59 on the official release (or it just switches to the other night at that point). Good job, Pittrek, catching the blurred out TV logo. Now where did this come from, and is there more !?
The Real Wizard 07.01.2018 23:02	Val Lurex wrote: Also worth paying attention to is the camerawork, which is much worse here than that at the Rainbow. Well, it definitely is Rainbow. But this is still pretty normal for concert camerawork. It's expected that a final edit will switch from one angle to another. If these guys are following band members without a tripod, you can expect that it'll be shaky now and again.
The Real Wizard 07.01.2018 23:08	Chief Mouse wrote: Nitroboy wrote: Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film. Yes, indeed! Or at least, later transferred to film and stored there. Now that we know it's Rainbow, and that we know it was shot on 2" tape and later stored onto film (that is, only the parts that were planned to be shown in the cinema), we can assume that this scene was chopped from the footage later in the editing process.
Hangman_96 07.01.2018 23:19	The Real Wizard wrote: Wow - what a great find ! It's definitely from the Rainbow. It matches that "uncut" audio (the 3 song version - SAD, SCC, Liar) as well as the recent official release. What's interesting is this reveals that there's a vocal overdub at 3:59 on the official release (or it just switches to the other night at that point). Good job, Pittrek, catching the blurred out TV logo. Now where did this come from, and is there more !? Damn, I was going to compare it to those three songs from the soundboard but never got around to it. Does it match the official release? I watched closely as he moved, but was able to spot only differences in his movements and the different colours that shone on the stage; however, different angles might have got me confused.
Hangman_96 07.01.2018 23:28	The Real Wizard wrote: Val Lurex wrote: Also worth paying attention to is the camerawork, which is much worse here than that at the Rainbow. Well, it definitely is Rainbow. But this is still pretty normal for concert camerawork. It's expected that a final edit will switch from one angle to another. If these guys are following band members without a tripod, you can expect that it'll be shaky now and again. Still looks rather shaky. Rainbow seems to be more stable camerawork wise. I haven't seen it in a long time, but as far as those angles are concerned, they seemed to be operating quite more professionally than the ones present here - these two particular angles. Anyway, I'm inclined to kind of believe you now that you've come up with that evidence.
Chinwonder2 07.01.2018 23:45	I think we can definitely say that this new footage is uncut footage from the first night? This comparison video using the 2014 release shows that none of the angles are present, which leads me to believe that the official release is the 2nd night! (I think!) -Chin
Hangman_96 08.01.2018 00:08	I've just compared it to the three-song soundboard recording, and indeed, it seems to match this recording but not entirely. The video I posted has Brian playing slightly different chords towards the end, or more precisely, when Freddie sings "In the right way" for the second time. However, it doesn't explain why both the official release and the old soundboard recording have this "edit" which comes after the second "In the right way", i.e. Freddie singing "Right, right a-way" (is that the overdub you referred to, Bob?) - Freddie doesn't sing these words in the video I posted. If it's an overdub, then how come it's present on the soundboard recording which in its turn is raw and unedited?
Hangman_96 08.01.2018 00:17	Chinwonder2 wrote: I think we can definitely say that this new footage is uncut footage from the first night? This comparison video using the 2014 release shows that none of the angles are present, which leads me to believe that the official release is the 2nd night! (I think!) -Chin Can't be. There was a power outage during this song on the second night. Unless the official release has a mix of both versions of Liar, but not the version from the second show in its entirety.
little foetus 08.01.2018 00:28	link I think it was already known that Liar from the 2014 official release was from the first night with bits from the second one. Moreover, there's this story of power outage.
Hangman_96 08.01.2018 00:42	^ It's worth noting that Tom Christie's analysis indicates that the portion of the song on the official release starting with the words "Father please forgive me" through "Right, right a-way" is taken from the second night whereas the soundboard recording comes from the first one at this point - which brings us to the conclusion that he did sing "Right, right a-way" on both nights. He doesn't sing this line in the new video at all.
The Real Wizard 08.01.2018 06:13	Val Lurex wrote: If it's an overdub, then how come it's present on the soundboard recording which in its turn is raw and unedited? I wrote "uncut" in quotation marks because it even has overdubs. It's likely a working version of the audio for one of the films, before the songs were chopped up for the fake medley. So even those 3 tracks are comps of both nights, and have studio overdubs on the backing vocals, at least.
Queenman!! 08.01.2018 12:33	the March show wasn't filmed?
The Real Wizard 08.01.2018 15:08	Queenman!! wrote: the March show wasn't filmed? That one definitely looks like film.
Chinwonder2 08.01.2018 17:31	Well, the dude replied to me. He mentions that it was shown on German TV (ZDF?), here’s his comment: -Chin
Nitroboy 08.01.2018 18:45	The Real Wizard wrote: Chief Mouse wrote: Nitroboy wrote: Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film. Yes, indeed! Or at least, later transferred to film and stored there. Now that we know it's Rainbow, and that we know it was shot on 2" tape and later stored onto film (that is, only the parts that were planned to be shown in the cinema), we can assume that this scene was chopped from the footage later in the editing process. I disagree. This looks like original film footage. Not video -> film. I also don't think this is from any of the Rainbow nights. Certainly not the March show.
Biggus Dickus 08.01.2018 18:52	There's no huge Queen letters behind the drums, so I don't think it's Rainbow. Also they had different stage clothes and Roger only had one tom tom during the March Rainbow show.
dysan 08.01.2018 18:57	I'm not too proud to admit it took me 30 years to notice the lettering
little foetus 08.01.2018 19:08	Nitroboy wrote: The Real Wizard wrote: Chief Mouse wrote: Nitroboy wrote: Whatever it is, it looks like it was shot on film. Yes, indeed! Or at least, later transferred to film and stored there. Now that we know it's Rainbow, and that we know it was shot on 2" tape and later stored onto film (that is, only the parts that were planned to be shown in the cinema), we can assume that this scene was chopped from the footage later in the editing process. I disagree. This looks like original film footage. Not video -> film. I also don't think this is from any of the Rainbow nights. Certainly not the March show. well, this is definitely not from the march show, most likely from the first november show. The audio match the soundboard, the clothes are the same, the film looks like the snippet we have of the power outage...
The Real Wizard 08.01.2018 19:09
The Real Wizard 08.01.2018 19:12	Biggus Dickus wrote: There's no huge Queen letters behind the drums, so I don't think it's Rainbow. Concerts were often darkly lit in the 70s. The Queen letters aren't even visible in most of the photos from the shows. This footage is from the Rainbow shows. There is no debate.
Bad Seed 08.01.2018 20:54	Don't forget folks that this footage was shown in public at that exhibition in London many years ago now. I'm a little sceptical that this is just someone recording from the screen with a hand held camera.
Queenman!! 08.01.2018 22:48	Stormtroopers exhibition...
GinjaNinja 08.01.2018 23:29	A few rambling observations: - To my eyes this looks like footage shot originally on film and NOT a transfer of 2" videotape footage to film, which would look very different. Therefore this would have needed a second camera crew. - Even if this was a segment of the videotape of the first night shown at the Stormtroopers in Stilettos exhibition, that footage was only viewable with a large written watermark in the top corner, and a camera copy would not look anywhere near as clear as this. There is a video available of Flick of the Wrist, recorded at the exhibition, so you can see for yourself how the quality compares. - I have a long-held suspicion that the Queen lettering was only there during the first night. - John doesn't move to the microphone to sing "Liar!" as he does in the 2014 release footage, which may suggest a performance sometime after/before the Rainbow shows (or not!). - Freddie's make-up looks less heavy than in the 2014 release footage, though that may just be due to the film vs. video footage.
musicland munich 09.01.2018 04:22	musicland munich wrote: The source ( not necessarily place of the gig ) could be german TV. The guy ( most likely german or austrian) also added a "Szene75" Video on the same day in same length from a different act. Jesus, I am wasting my talents here :) No, just joking ;) As I don't have an active YT account - can someone request the original length of that video. he also answered that question on that other video i have mentioned in my post above.
pittrek 09.01.2018 07:16	OK if Bob says it matches the "uncut" Rainbow audio, we can be sure that it's that, whatever the correct date is. However I don't believe that the footage comes from the same people who filmed material for the later official release(s). I still think this is shot on film and with hand-held cameras - the footage shot for the official release(s) was shot on video, and with fixed cameras. And it is definitely NOT filmed off a screen at the exhibition
Biggus Dickus 09.01.2018 07:59	GinjaNinja made a good point about the lettering. I just flicked thru the Rainbow 1974 November gig and there certainly is many bits of footage when the lettering just isn't there, whatever the lightning is. Maybe they thought it didn't look too good and took it down for the 2nd Rainbow gig.
Bul 09.01.2018 09:26	This reminds me of Wembley, the crew of Gavin Taylor, the crew of DoRo and a bunch of angles
Dr Magus 09.01.2018 12:19	Bullub wrote: This reminds me of Wembley, the crew of Gavin Taylor, the crew of DoRo and a bunch of angles I think Wembley 86 has pretty much been ruled out. It's been narrowed down to the seventies, very possibly Rainbow 74.
The Real Wizard 09.01.2018 12:42	Dr Magus wrote: Bullub wrote: This reminds me of Wembley, the crew of Gavin Taylor, the crew of DoRo and a bunch of angles I think Wembley 86 has pretty much been ruled out. It's been narrowed down to the seventies, very possibly Rainbow 74. Ha ! Today's captain obvious award goes to...
Hangman_96 09.01.2018 14:56	pittrek wrote: OK if Bob says it matches the "uncut" Rainbow audio, we can be sure that it's that, whatever the correct date is. However I don't believe that the footage comes from the same people who filmed material for the later official release(s). I still think this is shot on film and with hand-held cameras - the footage shot for the official release(s) was shot on video, and with fixed cameras. And it is definitely NOT filmed off a screen at the exhibition The angle below the stage is identical to the one on the official release but nowhere near as professionally operated. On all of the known footage from Rainbow there are no extra cameras visible in those areas, apart from the crew who were shooting the concert in the first place. Bearing all of that in mind, this camera would have had to have been placed somewhere behind the main one, that is, in the audience, but then again, no extra cameras are visible there.
Nitroboy 09.01.2018 17:07	Wherever it's from, it's some of the best film footage of 70s Queen in existence! :)
pittrek 09.01.2018 19:03	Val Lurex wrote: pittrek wrote: OK if Bob says it matches the "uncut" Rainbow audio, we can be sure that it's that, whatever the correct date is. However I don't believe that the footage comes from the same people who filmed material for the later official release(s). I still think this is shot on film and with hand-held cameras - the footage shot for the official release(s) was shot on video, and with fixed cameras. And it is definitely NOT filmed off a screen at the exhibition The angle below the stage is identical to the one on the official release Really? Identical? Can I ask WHERE did you see the same angle in the officially released video(s)? I have seen slightly similar angles, and very similar angles, but I don't remember seeing identical angles. I am mainly talking about the footage taken from the audience. Bearing all of that in mind, this camera would have had to have been placed somewhere behind the main one, that is, in the audience, Well you can clearly see heads of 1 or 2 audience members from cca 0:08 to 0:15 before the camera zooms in to show the band but then again, no extra cameras are visible there. When? Do we have footage of this particular night from Liar which would show that area?
dysan 09.01.2018 19:10	I always wondered if the sign on the stage at Wembley says 'QUOS' as in a box of cables belonging to Status Quo, or 'DUDS' as in a box of blown bulbs.
Hangman_96 09.01.2018 21:12	pittrek wrote: Val Lurex wrote: pittrek wrote: OK if Bob says it matches the "uncut" Rainbow audio, we can be sure that it's that, whatever the correct date is. However I don't believe that the footage comes from the same people who filmed material for the later official release(s). I still think this is shot on film and with hand-held cameras - the footage shot for the official release(s) was shot on video, and with fixed cameras. And it is definitely NOT filmed off a screen at the exhibition The angle below the stage is identical to the one on the official release Really? Identical? Can I ask WHERE did you see the same angle in the officially released video(s)? I have seen slightly similar angles, and very similar angles, but I don't remember seeing identical angles. I am mainly talking about the footage taken from the audience. Bearing all of that in mind, this camera would have had to have been placed somewhere behind the main one, that is, in the audience, Well you can clearly see heads of 1 or 2 audience members from cca 0:08 to 0:15 before the camera zooms in to show the band but then again, no extra cameras are visible there. When? Do we have footage of this particular night from Liar which would show that area? Yes, identical, but not completely the same - that's what I meant. I base my judgements on what I see. There is enough footage from both nights to go round and none of it has any signs of additional cameras in that particular area. Of course, the darkness may have well concealed the camera, but however shaky it is, it looks to me like it was shot on a TV camera using film, not a Super 8 hand-held one, otherwise the footage would be much more inferior. Not to mention that the audio is soundboard-sourced and the main camera from below the stage, which would have to be somewhere over there, doesn't get in the way of shooting. Not that I'm questioning the fact that it's Rainbow, but things here happen to be rather strange.
Saint Jiub 10.01.2018 05:29	The Real Wizard wrote: Dr Magus wrote: Bullub wrote: This reminds me of Wembley, the crew of Gavin Taylor, the crew of DoRo and a bunch of angles I think Wembley 86 has pretty much been ruled out. It's been narrowed down to the seventies, very possibly Rainbow 74. Ha ! Today's captain obvious award goes to... ... but Liar was played at Wembley 86 ... and it was an abbreviated version ... like there was some sort of power outage. ;p
pittrek 10.01.2018 07:32	Val Lurex wrote: pittrek wrote: Val Lurex wrote: The angle below the stage is identical to the one on the official release Really? Identical? Can I ask WHERE did you see the same angle in the officially released video(s)? I have seen slightly similar angles, and very similar angles, but I don't remember seeing identical angles. I am mainly talking about the footage taken from the audience. Bearing all of that in mind, this camera would have had to have been placed somewhere behind the main one, that is, in the audience, Well you can clearly see heads of 1 or 2 audience members from cca 0:08 to 0:15 before the camera zooms in to show the band but then again, no extra cameras are visible there. When? Do we have footage of this particular night from Liar which would show that area? Yes, identical, but not completely the same - that's what I meant. Well identical means completely the same, doesn't it ? :-) I base my judgements on what I see. #metoo There is enough footage from both nights to go round There was a very specific reason why I asked if we have enough footage from Liar from that specific night - in the case that this would indeed be a TV report, it was normal for a TV crew to get permission for filming one or 2 songs and then f* off. The strange thing to me is that it was aired once on German TV and anywhere else. I would love to know the background history of this footage, is the youtuber communicating with anybody?
Dr Magus 11.01.2018 12:50	The Real Wizard wrote: Dr Magus wrote: Bullub wrote: This reminds me of Wembley, the crew of Gavin Taylor, the crew of DoRo and a bunch of angles I think Wembley 86 has pretty much been ruled out. It's been narrowed down to the seventies, very possibly Rainbow 74. Ha ! Today's captain obvious award goes to... I love it when they take it seriously.

QueenZone discussion #1499610

Pro-shot footage of Liar from some 1974-75 show