| MrFunster 30.09.2017 15:37 |
I m really curious how some queenzoners have experienced the innuendo sessions at metropolis. Heard Anything totally new? Maybe some new facts you can share or some snippets which you could record with you your phone. I would lik to hear that. I hope to hear / read an update soon. |
| Sunshine 30.09.2017 21:03 |
Hi, I just came back from this event. It was just great. We were received with special “Freddie” Moët & Chandon champagne, bottled in aa bottle with his picture. A word of welcome by the ceo of Metropolis and host, a dj on UK radio. The studio itself is such a special place to be. You walk around in the setting where the Headlong video was recorded. Recording was prohibited and I hope no one recorded to preserve the integrity of this event. Justin and Noel went in-depth with 4 tracks. Innuendo was definitely the highlight as we got insight how the track was written by the band. It started as a fairly standard rock n roll jam, kind of Aerosmith a like and developed into this epic beautiful song. I’m sure we can debate a long time about what we heard and it was just amazing. We spent 1,5 hours on unledding Innuendo. Also a Roger sang version of Innuendo was heard. Afterwards we also got insight in the other tracks with TSMGO being very poignant. Also alternative versions and embryo versions of TATDOOL and IGSM were interesting. Not one note was heard before and that made it very exclusive. I am a very happy man and I feel privileged to haves been part of this. The reception was very welcoming and easy going. It’s like being part of a family you never had really. |
| MrFunster 30.09.2017 21:29 |
Thanks for your update , sounds very good. How did these are the days started as an early take ? With piano or was it more a rough version with only drums and synths Did you notice a lot of lyrics changes? But only for 4 songs Om my god. So you have not heard multitracks of All gods people? |
| Sunshine 30.09.2017 21:36 |
TADDOOL was a Roger song and they also played the Roger version which had a different melody in the verses and sounded quite different from the version he sings live these days. The song started with the sampled congas and same format of the song. Different guitar solos, Justin played I think 3 different guitar solos. Lyrics were more or less the same as the end product. TSMGO and this one were songs that Brian and Roger brought themselves nearly finished. Especially TSMGO was 90% finished. Justin played spectacular Red Special sounds on that track. No, All Gods People was not played. Someone in the audience mentioned Africa By Night but Justin wasn’t really in the mood to talk about that track. |
| Sebastian 30.09.2017 23:06 |
Thanks. Very informative. |
| Adam Baboolal 01.10.2017 01:48 |
Sounds interesting. I was dabbling with the idea of going, but, I didn't want to part with that much cash. Looking forward to hearing more people chime in on their experiences, though. |
| Sebastian 01.10.2017 02:28 |
Have you checked QOL? |
| MrFunster 01.10.2017 07:04 |
At QOL I read there was 3,5 hours of multitracks. Was this just about 4 songs? I hope this will get released. And then outtakes of the whole album Espcially Africa by night and Innuendo. |
| Sunshine 01.10.2017 07:08 |
On QOL are also very interesting comments and I agree with everything. Another thing is to hear how the tracks we recorded live through these gigantic studio speakers. So incredible good quality and it is as if they perform right next to you. All kind of studio chatter. Very good mood from all members. What I also thought was very interesting is to get insight in true band dynamic. There was obviously some tension about musical differences and Noel told he always went to get coffee until they cooled down again. Funny stories from him. He was in awe to hear Freddie sing his heart out right one meter next to him. And he was totally baffled by Freddie’s performance and Freddie would say: discard it, I’ll try again. But Noel didnt discard anything. He kept everything. Also, Brian and Roger were opposites in many ways and were quibbling quite a lot. Freddie was the meditator and glued everybody with his witty humor. Freddie was funny all the time. Despite his illness he didn’t loose his humor. He was also never tired when “on duty”, he never complained and gave his all. John’s role is underestimated. He didn’t say a lot but if he did, everybody listed and he was always spot on. John didn’t contribute with any song of his own, only contributed with additions to songs. All members played their keyboards on their own songs. Innuendo’s keyboards are from Freddie. Lyrics are from Roger. |
| MrFunster 01.10.2017 08:19 |
Very interesting to read, thank you very must for updating If you have more stories please let us know.... |
| anato 01.10.2017 08:31 |
I posted this on QOL: They gave us the opportunity to ask for what we would like to hear I asked for the drum only track from the show must go on at loud volume The jaws of the room dropped including Justin and Noël when this was played. Then when finished Noël said no click tracknfor roger. Astonishing In a funny way another request for the bass line from days of our lifes stole the show. So subtle. What musicians they were / are |
| anato 01.10.2017 08:34 |
Seb there was a lot of technical questions surrounding plating the drums , microphones used, Reverb, off shoots, mixing techniques etc. This is the stuff that would have appealed to you I suspect . However one of the fans insisted the technical stuff was Beginning to swallow the discussions at the expense Of listening to the precious music. |
| MrFunster 01.10.2017 08:37 |
Thank you .I have read QOL. So if I have read it correctly. There were just 4 songs available. For that high price they could easily let you hear more of the the other songs of the innuendo album. Have you seen someone had record some snippets. I would love to hear a small part. Or maybe pictures? |
| anato 01.10.2017 08:38 |
The BBC Dj who was the Mc for the event turned around to the organiser during the roger version of TATDOOL ( can't remember this ladies. Name) and was blown away by what he was hearing . He said we should do this for every album. She replied I must ask Justin !!!! |
| MrFunster 01.10.2017 08:42 |
This sounds good. And then release it on a record |
| anato 01.10.2017 08:50 |
Yes just the four songs. Innuendo alone was over 90 mins given the complexities and layers that had tonne peeled back. We had to hand our phones in. No devices in the room. Justin mentioned that's why Brian gave him Free reign to play what he wanted. nick from QOL Was recording with one of those fancy journalist digital recorders . Suspect this was a copy for QPL to Listen to shouldnthey need to. As I mentioned the tech questions were becoming dominant. Justin was great saying tell me what you Want to hear and I'll play it for you. There was one guy in the room who was seb like in his knowledge . Intriguing though is that mid question To Justin from this guy, the organiser said to Justin " you know who this is ". I'm wondering was he working on some kind of official project. They played a lot of the conversations in the takes also. Great moment when they had the backing track Of innuendo nailed and Brian was nervous to do another take in case he made a mistake. Freddie and John said let's do a another !!!! They played a 8 second guitar motif for TSMGO that brian had done 16 takes for . It never made the final mix.noel used it as an example of what a workaholic brian was. |
| TomP63 01.10.2017 09:59 |
So there is some more gold in the archives after all? Thank you ANATO for your share, very, very interesting! Tom |
| justinshirleysmith 01.10.2017 10:21 |
Hello I just want to clarify one point. Sunshine has written above: “John didn’t contribute with any song of his own” I believe this is paraphrasing an answer I gave last night. I don’t believe I said that. If I did, it came out wrong and I apologise. I only saw what happened at Mountain but most of the Innuendo sessions were at Metropolis so how could I know this? What I meant is: I do not remember if any of the songs on the album originated from John. I think it's highly unlikely that John did not bring song ideas to the sessions as he always did. Best wishes Justin PS Thank you to everybody who came last night. We were amazed people had travelled so far and very gratified by the incredibly positive feedback afterwards. It was an honour to participate in this fundraising event for the Mercury Phoenix Trust and pay tribute to Brian, Freddie, John, Roger and David as I am sure you will all agree. |
| Sunshine 01.10.2017 10:29 |
Yes ANATO is right with his comments. Well I heard that some would have like to hear more but I think the whole set up was justifying the price. I did not regret at all. Justin was very open to play anything we wanted. But actually I think Innuendo was the most interesting as you heard this song build within 1,5 hours. Also it was the first song for the album, beginning in November 1989. I especially loved the drum sounds. Roger is really a fantastic player and also without clicks. Very very impressing stuff. His drum sound sounded SO good. Fat and aggressive and natural on TSMGO. Brian played extremely complicated parts for that song. Noel also mentioned Brian was really always there while the rest let Dave, Justin and Noel doing their job. Dave was the fifth band member at the time, he contributed with creative ideas but is not credited for it. Also, they went always out for dinner at the local Chinese or Indian restaurant at the corner. When Freddie got more ill, they stopped doing that. Also interesting, no one from the production team had to sign a contract of secrecy about Freddie’s health despite they knew it. That shows there was a lot of trust and these 3 guys were really close to the band. |
| anato 01.10.2017 10:34 |
Justin I attended this event and both yourself and Noël Were gentlemen and obvious ultimate professionals Thank you for your time and hope we can do another event on another album !!! Had to catch a flight home last night so missed The chance to thank you face to face |
| djcamper 01.10.2017 10:35 |
Was there any camera recording the event so it could be possibly put on official youtube channel sometime later? |
| MrFunster 01.10.2017 11:22 |
Hello Justin, Thanks for your reply on queenzone. I could not afford this event because of the high price plus flight and even hotel. As a great queen lover I wanted to experience this so much. After my phonecall with the manager of metropolis studios , he advised not to come over for such an high price and maybe too much technical information. Not really interesting for the general queen fan, So the focus was to the producers and engineers. So i decided not to go as I did not know what exactly to expect. Now I regret as it was the ultimate possibility for the die hard queen fan to attend such an event. Unfortunately no multitrack of All gods people. What I would like to hear. I really hope, a possibility like this will happen again. Also fair to all those queen fans to release more of this unique material. Hope this will happen one day. |
| SpaceGrey 01.10.2017 11:48 |
MrFunster We can only hope for it as always |
| Pim Derks 01.10.2017 13:47 |
Why can't they release something like this when they've got it sorted out already...? |
| Sebastian 01.10.2017 14:08 |
Pim Derks wrote: Why can't they release something like this when they've got it sorted out already...?Joe Public would rather buy Wembley for the umpteenth time; as a result, QPL would rather release Wembley for the umpteenth time. |
| BETA215 01.10.2017 14:27 |
It's like QPL its laughing at us, again. Sad, really sad. |
| Pim Derks 01.10.2017 14:38 |
Surely, if people are willing to pay 300+ pounds just to HEAR some tapes someone inside QPL must think "hmmm.... maybe there is a market for this stuff"? |
| TomP63 01.10.2017 14:43 |
Surely, if people are willing to pay 300+ pounds just to HEAR some tapes someone inside QPL must think "hmmm.... maybe there is a market for this stuff"? BINGO! Plus, why is there always the reference to Joe Public, turn it around, make it a market for Queen fans, collectors, diehard for that matter, or is too much to ask? So, nowadays I'm Joe Public? Tom |
| Voice of Reason 2018 01.10.2017 14:48 |
Hi Justin, Thanks for posting and thanks again for yesterday. There was so much to take in I'm sure things will be coming back to me over the next few weeks. If you let me know next time you're in Limerick we can listen to some Tuesday Blue! Cheers, Liam |
| anato 01.10.2017 14:53 |
Liam Wasn't aware there was another Irish man in the room I flew from cork Paul |
| thomasquinn 32989 01.10.2017 14:59 |
Sunshine wrote: Also a Roger sang version of Innuendo was heard.I find this extremely interesting. That suggests that the assumption that Roger was the original author of Innuendo would stand up to scrutiny. |
| Sebastian 01.10.2017 15:50 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:It's been long known that Freddie started off the lyrics as he was singing along to the jam, and then Roger wrote the rest of them.Sunshine wrote: Also a Roger sang version of Innuendo was heard.I find this extremely interesting. That suggests that the assumption that Roger was the original author of Innuendo would stand up to scrutiny. So, Roger was the principal lyricist of the song, but not by any means its composer. Musically, that piece is way out of his league. PS: It'd also been long known that a demo of 'Innuendo' sung by Roger existed in the archives. What's new (and, of course, fantastic) is that some people were finally able to hear it. |
| Sebastian 01.10.2017 17:45 |
Sunshine wrote: Someone in the audience mentioned Africa By Night but Justin wasn’t really in the mood to talk about that track. justinshirleysmith wrote: I only saw what happened at Mountain but most of the Innuendo sessions were at Metropolis so how could I know this?That could explain it - 'All Imaginary-Skydaddy's People' was chiefly tracked at The Town House before the 'Barcelona' project (as opposed to 'for the "Barcelona" project') and then some work was done on it, most likely at The Town House again, for 'The Miracle'. So, there's a strong chance little (or none) of 'All Ridiculous-Fictional-Character's People' was done in Switzerland, therefore Justin wasn't (too) involved with it. |
| SpaceGrey 01.10.2017 19:04 |
Why? Why they are always shows something only on any conventions but officially release not in the pipeline ? How long they will be mock the fans? They want more money but not making any eagerness and desire. They're doing "easy money" from Wembley, Montreal, Queen on the Fire but instead of releasing what is truly rare product , they begin to bear nonsense |
| cmsdrums 01.10.2017 21:18 |
Great to hear the feedback for this event - it would have been if such interest to me but sadly I couldn’t justify the spend at present. Great to see Justin’s post crediting David Richards with his work ei H the band too. Intriguing to hear that Roger’s drums on TSMGO has no click track - I thought that on top of the acoustic take there was an accompanying drum machine part, which Id assumed would be synced to a click, and Roger then played to that. I’d have liked to hear different versions of I Can’t Libe With You as there were working versions with acoustic drums and Brian’s programmes parts. |
| DrumBrother 01.10.2017 21:49 |
anato I'd have been flying from Cork too if this was within my price range but alas not. It sounds like it was an amazing experience. Would love to have heard the drum track fro Innuendo alone. |
| N0_Camping4U 01.10.2017 22:20 |
Damn, take it easy there Sebash, you'll be alright - I promise. |
| Sebastian 01.10.2017 22:42 |
cmsdrums wrote: Intriguing to hear that Roger’s drums on TSMGO has no click track - I thought that on top of the acoustic take there was an accompanying drum machine part, which Id assumed would be synced to a click, and Roger then played to that.The stems do have a programmed basic beat, IIRC, so the plot thickens... Roger said (AG AC, 2009) he hadn't been there for the genesis of the track so who knows? Perhaps at some point Brian did a demo with programmed drums and then later on Rog replaced (most of) them with a live performance (playing to Brian's synth rather than to a click per se). |
| john bodega 02.10.2017 06:21 |
"Recording was prohibited and I hope no one recorded to preserve the integrity of this event" I hope for the exact opposite. |
| Sunshine 02.10.2017 07:16 |
Hi John, I understand you wish for the opposite. The fact is that QP is very careful about their legacy. Those unreleased outtakes of Innuendo from last saturday will not be released. Deal with it, live with it and accept it. So the only way we will get to hear these recordings are with special events like this or at fanclub days and the like. If someone recorded anyway, QPL will not host such an event ever again and we will never hear anything like this anymore. I think we need to be a bit more humble to have all these demands that the outtakes should be released. |
| MrFunster 02.10.2017 07:34 |
Very wise sunshine ;-) But this not what want . It should fair every one can hear some of these raw sessions I am looking forward to the alternate innuendo..... |
| Sebastian 02.10.2017 10:43 |
Sunshine wrote: Those unreleased outtakes of Innuendo from last saturday will not be released. Deal with it, live with it and accept it.Up until three years ago, we'd all think or say that about a live version of 'Master-Stroke' (no - we'd say it never existed); up until 2011, we'd say that about a synth-less 'Football Fight' or a 1980 take of 'It's a Beautiful Day'. So things change ... don't be so pessimistic. We're on the same page about one thing, though: if we ever want even a slight chance of any of those recordings ever seeing the light, sneaking recorders and bootlegging the outtakes is definitely not the way. On the contrary, it will destroy any minimal odds of them even considering issuing those gems, not to mention thwarting the possibility of future 'BTT' experiences for that album or any other. PS: I don't mind those events being 'flooded' by technical questions. That's what they're for! People more interested in Frederick's underwear or how Deaks liked his tea can go to other events, which are focused on those details. |
| cmsdrums 02.10.2017 11:28 |
Sebastian wrote:Totally agree on this point Sebastian!! These events are absolutely for the musicians, gear 'geeks' etcSunshine wrote: Those unreleased outtakes of Innuendo from last saturday will not be released. Deal with it, live with it and accept it.PS: I don't mind those events being 'flooded' by technical questions. That's what they're for! People more interested in Frederick's underwear or how Deaks liked his tea can go to other events, which are focused on those details. |
| Sunshine 02.10.2017 11:32 |
Somehow i am not able to quote anymore on this site. Anyway. @Sebastian I hope you will be right. They have literally every note ever played for the Innuendo album. And we heard only 5% of that, maybe even less. So there is plenty of material left. Glad you agree with me regarding bootlegging, it is disrespectful of Br I also didn't like the technical questions. I really don't give a shit what type of microphone Freddie was using or what kind of mixing desk was used. It is about the music. I rather hear a new take on Innuendo than getting to know what presettings on his amp and what cable Brian used on Delilah. Noel Harris also underlined that the source is the most important factor if something sounds good or not. |
| Sunshine 02.10.2017 11:35 |
@cmsdrums: No they are not only for the musicians and gear geeks. Its about the music. |
| Vocal harmony 02.10.2017 13:33 |
This event has got me thinking. Through the years most people on here, me included, bought into the line that the band and particularly Brian only wished the fans to here what amounted to perfection and therefore guarded what may be in the vaults closely giving little hope of any of us ever hearing much more than is already in circulation. Disc two of the NOTW set seems to be a softening of this attitude, but the Inuendo sessions has cast new light on the subject, with Brian aparently saying that anything could be played. Could this policy lead to some very interesting releases in the future. It must surely be obvious to all concerned that if fifty people were willing to pay a huge price for the privilege then there must be a market for a lengthy DVD or Blu Ray release of at least the biggest selling studio albums with a kind of classic albums format but going deeper into the sessions, mixes and work done for each album. I wouldn't expect these to be cheap, but the potential sales would far outstrip what the Inuendo event made. I guess what in saying is what's the difference between an exclusive event and a commercially released version of the event |
| Adam Baboolal 02.10.2017 13:40 |
Sunshine wrote: I also didn't like the technical questions. I really don't give a shit what type of microphone Freddie was using or what kind of mixing desk was used. It is about the music.I definitely agree, the music is the most important thing at the heart of a recording. However, sometimes you find that it can be very important, e.g. Brian has always been mentioned how the first album's drum sound wasn't to their liking and hurts the overall sound of the band. So, at an event like this you must expect people like myself that are curious about the process. And while the music takes precedence, the techniques and technology that captured these performances is also important. We all have our priorities in these kinds of events! |
| Sunshine 02.10.2017 13:45 |
Adam Baboolal wrote:Of course, this information is nice to know.Sunshine wrote: I also didn't like the technical questions. I really don't give a shit what type of microphone Freddie was using or what kind of mixing desk was used. It is about the music.I definitely agree, the music is the most important thing at the heart of a recording. However, sometimes you find that it can be very important, e.g. Brian has always been mentioned how the first album's drum sound wasn't to their liking and hurts the overall sound of the band. So, at an event like this you must expect people like myself that are curious about the process. And while the music takes precedence, the techniques and technology that captured these performances is also important. We all have our priorities in these kinds of events! But there were some of these geeks who went so much into detail that it became boring for the rest. Does it really add anything to know what kind of guitar cable Brian used? |
| Sunshine 02.10.2017 13:49 |
Vocal harmony wrote: This event has got me thinking. Through the years most people on here, me included, bought into the line that the band and particularly Brian only wished the fans to here what amounted to perfection and therefore guarded what may be in the vaults closely giving little hope of any of us ever hearing much more than is already in circulation. Disc two of the NOTW set seems to be a softening of this attitude, but the Inuendo sessions has cast new light on the subject, with Brian aparently saying that anything could be played. Could this policy lead to some very interesting releases in the future. It must surely be obvious to all concerned that if fifty people were willing to pay a huge price for the privilege then there must be a market for a lengthy DVD or Blu Ray release of at least the biggest selling studio albums with a kind of classic albums format but going deeper into the sessions, mixes and work done for each album. I wouldn't expect these to be cheap, but the potential sales would far outstrip what the Inuendo event made. I guess what in saying is what's the difference between an exclusive event and a commercially released version of the eventBrian agreed to this event under the condition that nothing would be recorded. Justin stated that Brian gave carte blanche, Justin could play anything and both Justin and Noel were speaking openly, also how they experienced the sessions with the good (amazing musical performances and very cheerful Freddie), bad (the neurotic perfection of Brian May that caused very long days) and ugly (the quibbling and Freddie's detoriation) I don't think there is a market for these kind of releases. It also was mentioned during last saturday's session because somebody asked the same. He said "what about The Beatles' Anthology series?". And Justin answered very spot on: yes but they had unreleased tracks. Plus that was the 90's. No one is buying a CD these days anymore. Where can you use a CD these days? It is so old fashioned. We need to accept that it will be very unlikely that stuff like this sees the light of day outside a protected area. The 350 GBP was hefty yes, but SO much worth it. I am still 'high' from it and like someone here said, it was so much to comprehend what we saw and heard, i still need to process everything. And i don't thing 350 GBP is a lot of money for an experience that you get once in your life. There was even a guy flying in from Argentina for the weekend while his wife was about to give birth. I mean, that is how much it meant for people to be part of it. |
| Togg 02.10.2017 14:30 |
Sunshine wrote:Actually to a lot of people it is, we go to great lengths to find this stuff out as a lot of it does make a difference, albeit small, but if your going to try to capture similar sounds you want the starting point to be the same in terms of equipment, I am completely obsessed with the sound of Rogers kit and Brian's guitar over the years, it is why I got into Queen in the first place so the more I can find out about the equipment used in studios and live the better. And yes I do generally buy it afterwards to try to capture some of that tone for myselfAdam Baboolal wrote:Of course, this information is nice to know. But there were some of these geeks who went so much into detail that it became boring for the rest. Does it really add anything to know what kind of guitar cable Brian used?Sunshine wrote: I also didn't like the technical questions. I really don't give a shit what type of microphone Freddie was using or what kind of mixing desk was used. It is about the music.I definitely agree, the music is the most important thing at the heart of a recording. However, sometimes you find that it can be very important, e.g. Brian has always been mentioned how the first album's drum sound wasn't to their liking and hurts the overall sound of the band. So, at an event like this you must expect people like myself that are curious about the process. And while the music takes precedence, the techniques and technology that captured these performances is also important. We all have our priorities in these kinds of events! So for me the tech stuff is just as important and in fact more interesting than who wrote what or what shirt Freddie wore etc |
| cmsdrums 02.10.2017 14:42 |
Sunshine wrote: @cmsdrums: No they are not only for the musicians and gear geeks. Its about the music.Apologies - I didn't perhaps word my comment very well. Whilst I didn't say 'only', I meant to imply that these type of event would likely be of really great interest to musicians, but absolutely should in no way be limited to any specific crowd....those that really have an in depth knowledge, understanding and appreciation of Queen's music would totally also love it. I more meant to back up Seb's comment, and wanted to reiterate my view that some fans such as those that hound John outside his house for autographs which then go straight on Ebay, or those who have a morbid fascination into how and when Freddie became ill, would be the sort of people I'd hate to have at that type of event, asking irrelevant, annoying and out of place questions. |
| brians wig 02.10.2017 16:17 |
Sunshine wrote: I don't think there is a market for these kind of releases. It also was mentioned during last saturday's session because somebody asked the same. He said "what about The Beatles' Anthology series?". And Justin answered very spot on: yes but they had unreleased tracks.I think D2 of the forthcoming NOTW set proves without shadow of a doubt that they have unreleased tracks. Also, just look at how many other bands are releasing sets with demos etc in. QPL are so full of shit and I'm sick of it. |
| RS_Protos 02.10.2017 16:34 |
"full of shit" is right, it's all about milking it as much as possible with the least amount of product |
| MrFunster 02.10.2017 17:07 |
Wait and see. More unreleased material will come out. If you don t ask for it will come to you. Of course queen will ask money for it. What would you do if you had perfectionist Freddie Mercury as lead singer and Brian May as perfectionist guitarist plus powerhouse Roger Taylor in one band. If Queen was a voluntarily rock band for a free party. Then you have made your point. |
| Golden Salmon 02.10.2017 17:41 |
I'm sure they'll keep on releasing more material, but it kinda sucks that they're only doing it once a year, favoring live over studio recordings and seemingly waiting for the 40th anniversary of everything. Does this mean we only stand a chance of listening to Innuendo-era material 14 years from now? Then again, that sounds like a plan... |
| Vocal harmony 02.10.2017 19:56 |
In response to Sunshine I am fully aware of the conditions placed on this event by Brian and QP in general. The chance of being in the studio with the masters being discussed in depth is obviously going to attract in depth questions and discussion about how things were recorded and what equipment was used. The events subject was geared to that sort of discussion. Anyone who was there was obviously in a position to ask what they want, but the idea of someone saying that the technical stuff was boring and they weren't interested in the in depth questions does raise the question were they at the right event? As far as the CD market being non existent because its 2017, if there was no hope of sales why have the band bothered to release anything in the last few years, including the new NOTW boxset Also as I pointed out in my earlier post Brian giving the all clear to allow the playing of anything on the Innuendo masters does seem to indicate a more fan friendly approach to letting secrets out the bag. |
| Sebastian 03.10.2017 00:19 |
Sunshine wrote: But there were some of these geeks who went so much into detail that it became boring for the rest.So? There are some of these 'geeks' who go into so much detail about how Frederick tucked his shirt or whether Brian liked crumpets, and other people can get bored by that too. Equality and diversity! Togg wrote: Actually to a lot of people it is, we go to great lengths to find this stuff out as a lot of it does make a difference, albeit smallDefo - and if you've got the chance to ask those who were actually there, why not? You can always get hold of somebody else if you want to know how many times a day Fred went to the loo. cmsdrums wrote: I more meant to back up Seb's comment, and wanted to reiterate my view that some fans such as those that hound John outside his house for autographs which then go straight on Ebay, or those who have a morbid fascination into how and when Freddie became ill, would be the sort of people I'd hate to have at that type of event, asking irrelevant, annoying and out of place questions.Yeah - you got my point. More 'what sort of guitar lead did Brian use?' and less 'did you ever see John puking?' at last! |
| Nodger Maylor 03.10.2017 00:19 |
I love the excuse given re a lack of a Queen anthology - that's been threatened for years. The NOTW boxset is NOT testing the waters - if they'd bothered to have 2 CDs worth of unreleased stuff, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid at forking out £100 for it. Frankstein-esque "alternate" versions don't cut it for me. I'll wait to download it illegally, like most Queen fans, I imagine. Talk about a missed opportunity - well done, Queen Productions. |
| Nodger Maylor 03.10.2017 00:19 |
So nobody asked if Freddie dressed to the left or the right? Very disappointed. |
| Sunshine 03.10.2017 06:37 |
Maybe also interesting are the start dates of the songs. Innuendo started as the first track in early november 1989. I'm Going Slightly mad started on December 4th 1989 The Show Must Go On started on March 22nd 1990, last sessions were in September 1990 These are the Days Of our Lives: I don't know, i didnt see any dates |
| john bodega 03.10.2017 08:32 |
"Those unreleased outtakes of Innuendo from last saturday will not be released. Deal with it, live with it and accept it" It's a non-issue - the outtakes don't really exist in my world! A buncha people with disposable income went into a room on the other side of the planet and listened to some stuff that sounds interesting me as a Queen fan and a musician, but that's all - there's nothing to 'deal with' here. That being said, it would not bother me one bit if someone did a smash and grab on the Queen vaults and leaked the whole lot, frankly. QPL obviously don't want my money, so what difference does it really make? We were never meant to get the Bohemian Rhapsody 24-track, but we did, and it's a fantastic listen! That's my only point, anyway - I can live quite happily without anything interesting ever being officially released from the Queen vaults ever again, but anything that floats out the back door of a studio on a thumb drive is an unexpected bonus to me, and I'll take it with a big smile on my dumb face. |
| Togg 03.10.2017 10:17 |
Regarding further releases of unfinished tracks There is a school of thought that the NOTW box set is a 'test the water' product to see if there is a market for future releases of this nature. QP seem unable to grasp that other bands do this and as mentioned here Justin seems to be unaware of how it 'could ' be marketed to people. Well folks if you want unreleased unheard unfinished tracks out there you'd better buy the box set... if that fails to attract much of a market you can bet your bottom dollar no other similar product will see the light... just saying.... |
| cmsdrums 03.10.2017 11:42 |
Togg wrote: . QP seem unable to grasp that other bands do this and as mentioned here Justin seems to be unaware of how it 'could ' be marketed to people.To be fair to Justin, he's an engineer/producer, and I wouldn't expect him to be involved too much on how to sell the stuff, anymore than I'd expect a marketing guy be able to mix and master a track! It has been said before though that if Greg finds something in the vaults he goes to Justin with it and he seems to act as a 'middle man' and actually make a 'cull' before going to the band and Jim with suggestions based on what he THINKS they will approve. Perhaps he needs to be more open minded and throw pretty much everything relating to a project at them in the hope that more sticks. |
| Vocal harmony 03.10.2017 12:36 |
cmsdrums wrote:If that's the case, and I'm not disputing it for one minute, it does raise the question do Brian and Roger really know what's on the archive shelves. . .Togg wrote: . QP seem unable to grasp that other bands do this and as mentioned here Justin seems to be unaware of how it 'could ' be marketed to people.It has been said before though that if Greg finds something in the vaults he goes to Justin with it and he seems to act as a 'middle man' and actually make a 'cull' before going to the band and Jim with suggestions based on what he THINKS they will approve. Perhaps he needs to be more open minded and throw pretty much everything relating to a project at them in the hope that more sticks. Togg's mention of the NOTW box being a testing of the water, I've heard this too, but that being the case the choice of some of the live material and DVD length are probably not the best way to ensure huge interest from the core of people who would be interested in such products. |
| dudeofqueen 03.10.2017 14:43 |
Vocal harmony, re: >Togg's mention of the NOTW box being a testing of the water, I've heard this too, but that being the case the choice of some of the live material and DVD length are probably not the best way to ensure huge interest from the core of people who would be interested in such products "I know", said Jim, "We'll test the water." "What with?" said Brian, "Stereo photographs?" "No, you curly haired prat. With a set of archive recordings that everyone wants to hear." "Thank fucking CHRIST for that!" said John. "Those bastards have been after this for years and every time I go down the road to pick up my copy of The Sun, at least eighteen people ask me when Queen are going to release a box set of rare studio recordings. Personally, I've always been in favour of it as these are the things that people are really interested in and show how we all worked in the studio to achieve greatness. The business model works really well as has been shown by sets released by the likes of The Who and could really generate a huge amount of interest in the back catalogue again. I'm sure this must be up for a re-mastering soon, right?" Jim, Brian and Roger all look at each other askance. "Fucking hell John." said Roger. "I didn't even know you were here!" "Yep - every meeting since we released No One But You, same seat, same coffee cup." Jim slams down his gold fountain pen and ink splatters over the table. "I fucking SAID to keep this bloke away from here! He's never got anything positive to contribute. Who is he again?" "Played bass int he original band. Give him a chance, Jim" said Roger. "He's got a really good point there." "No he hasn't. We'll test the water with something that COULD be really good, but isn't quite fulfilling what they KNOW it could be. They can moan like buggery amongst themselves and then it'll all fizzle out. Then, when we look at sales figures, we can point to them as not having bought the set and there being no real interest in rarities and never have to anything like this again." "Jim, you're a bell end." Said John. Freddie would hate thinking like this and you weren't even his favourite manager." "Dangle the carrott and laugh like sailors at their disappointed little faces!" Movement in the corner distracts Jim, Roger and Brian at the table. "Brian, stop dribbling and sit still like a good boy." said Roger. "Anita's on her way over with your porridge and a bag of sweets for you." "Can I keep listening to Kerry's album though?" "No, remember Anita hates the fact that you're always looking at her poster on the bedroom ceiling, Brian!" "La la la......." "Anyway, there's a recording session lined up with Adam in January so we'll all have moved on by then." said Jim, removing the pricetag from the sole of his new, Italian leather shoes. "£300 they cost me, John" John looks at Jim in horror. "Told you Roger - he's a greedy bastard and hasn't done the Queen brand any favours at all since Fred died." "John," said Roger "that's the most I've ever heard you say........." |
| cmsdrums 03.10.2017 16:49 |
It’s probably for the best I didn’t go - I’d have only asked why the snare drum on ‘Live at The Bowl’ sounds like a packet of crisps being burst open on a soggy cardboard box. |
| BETA215 03.10.2017 22:47 |
@dudeofqueen Best fanfic ever. 9.9/10 I think we should forget about this rarities' bullshit and start making fictional stories. That would be the best for our health. |
| Togg 04.10.2017 07:41 |
Vocal harmony wrote:I'm not really having a pop at Justin, although I'm surprised if he hadn't seen what bands like th Beatles etc had done in similar situations given he is directly involved with similar projects, you're right it's not his role as such, but it struck me as a strange comment from him.cmsdrums wrote:If that's the case, and I'm not disputing it for one minute, it does raise the question do Brian and Roger really know what's on the archive shelves. . . Togg's mention of the NOTW box being a testing of the water, I've heard this too, but that being the case the choice of some of the live material and DVD length are probably not the best way to ensure huge interest from the core of people who would be interested in such products.Togg wrote: . QP seem unable to grasp that other bands do this and as mentioned here Justin seems to be unaware of how it 'could ' be marketed to people.It has been said before though that if Greg finds something in the vaults he goes to Justin with it and he seems to act as a 'middle man' and actually make a 'cull' before going to the band and Jim with suggestions based on what he THINKS they will approve. Perhaps he needs to be more open minded and throw pretty much everything relating to a project at them in the hope that more sticks. I can only assume the NOTW box set is a bit of a half way house, some rarer items and a healthy chunk of more popular appeal to the masses stuff. I planned on going but then never got round to buying the tickets, if they do it again ill be there in a heart beat if this is the only way we get to hear more about the studio practices, I'd probably ask waaaaay too many snare drum questions..... |
| Supersonic_Man89 04.10.2017 08:56 |
Would have been great to be there and reply to Justin regarding his 'Unreleased tracks quip', with 'Oh you mean 'Self Made Man', 'Robbery' and the countless others which are 'unreleased'?' Also morally, i'm not sure pricing the majority of Queen fans out of an event like this is the right way to go. I think there's better ways to raise money for charity if needed. |
| Togg 04.10.2017 09:53 |
It wasn't for the majority of Queen fans, it was 50 people, and a great way to raise money IMO, if they'd of offered 500 people the same experience at £10 each they still wouldn't have made the same money and they'd have had to deal with dozens of numpties asking when Freddie caught Aids... |
| Vocal harmony 04.10.2017 12:14 |
An event like this could never cater to the masses. It is exclusive and that's fine, but wouldn't it be better and maybe even more interesting if it was part of or in tandem with a physical CD or DVD release. It would have made much more sense to focus on NOTW this time. . . Togg, nothing wrong with snare drum questions. I would have been asking about Brian signal path on various solos and rhythm parts. It really is a great chance to get inside the sessions and find out how things were done. |
| thomasquinn 32989 04.10.2017 12:20 |
Togg wrote: Regarding further releases of unfinished tracks There is a school of thought that the NOTW box set is a 'test the water' product to see if there is a market for future releases of this nature. QP seem unable to grasp that other bands do this and as mentioned here Justin seems to be unaware of how it 'could ' be marketed to people. Well folks if you want unreleased unheard unfinished tracks out there you'd better buy the box set... if that fails to attract much of a market you can bet your bottom dollar no other similar product will see the light... just saying....Wow. Just wow. That's some serious Stockholm-syndrome there. |
| Togg 04.10.2017 14:32 |
Ha... maybe but trust me when I say that 'thought process' is out there... Like any 'brand' Queen test the water with every new release, if it works they do more.... why do you think we got so many Greatest hits packages?? because GH 1 was number one for the average lifetime of a cart horse... Seriously you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that they just do whatever seems to sell, therefore if this product sells out quickly and needs multiple re-ordering they will do others, and they may eventually take this type of thing a bit more seriously, lets face it the only reason thsi type of product has been rejected so far is they 'believe' it wont sell and has limited appeal Just sayin.... |
| thomasquinn 32989 04.10.2017 14:41 |
On the other hand, if it DOESN'T sell, they might actually realize that people don't want to pay too much for too little substance. If they're smart enough to look at their own sales, they're smart enough to compare their own sales with those of earlier releases (and other artists). I'm not going to pay a large figure for one disc I like and a bunch of crap I don't like. I did pay for the Rainbow box, because that was a good release. If your logic applies, I've let them know what kind of release I want. Buying this big box of crap would mess that up. |
| RS_Protos 04.10.2017 14:52 |
Well said and totally agree with you thomasquinn 32989. Buying it would mean more expensive future releases with minimal material(such as this one, NOTW). I think they all need to test their brains because it's malfunctioning, or never did work. |
| Togg 04.10.2017 15:02 |
But you are 1 fan who lets be honest has heard most of what's out there within this tiny community of hardcore Queen fans, This was never going to be aimed at you or the hardcore 'I want every snippet' fan If this doesn't sell, they won't do any other similar release end of discussion, they wont study why? they will simply say 'well that didn't work' more of the same I guess... The product is aimed at people you go to one concert per tour, buy the new ablum and loved Queen from there youth, it's really not aimed at Queenzone people, if it were then it would actually be everything YOU want wouldn't it? it's a test the water type of product, you're saying you let them know what kind of release you want, but they see this as a 'good release' just as much as they did Rainbow If it works we will get another for The Game, and Innuendo, and maybe something else before they finally light the blue touch paper on a bigger ....i'll say the word.... Anthology But.... before they spend all that time and money putting that together they will want to know it has a market.... simple |
| Togg 04.10.2017 15:19 |
Businesses never spend money or time trying to figure out why something new didn't sell, they move on quickly with stuff they know brings in revenue, they only spend moeny looking at why something doesn't work if it 'used to' but now doesn't. So you can think whatever you like about their malfunctioning brains.... but business goes where the money is, it's that simple, if it sells you'll see more, it is doesn't they will simply assume people aren't interested in 'outtakes and rare live recordings' certainly not enough to warrent working on more of them and that will be that, the will go on with another 3d stereo photograhic version of Wembley... |
| RS_Protos 04.10.2017 15:55 |
Off course, everything is driven by money these days, just like any other company. But I would think after all these years we would have had a lot more rare material by now, failed on that one..... So let them test what ever they want, when I was young I would buy it right away, now I'm older so even though I have the money to buy it doesn't mean I will, the package is not worth it. |
| TomP63 04.10.2017 19:47 |
Testing the water? Testing the water started with the Made in Heaven singles which had Beeb tracks a B sides, as a teaser for the forthcoming album, Queen at the BBC. This project was pulled back, in favour for Queen Rocks, the so called statement then was: they, yes they did not want the flood the market. Later that year Greatest Hits blabla got their re-issue. Queen at the BBC went into Queen on Air.....this only happend last year, so the water must be freezing cold by now! They went under water. Tom |
| Pim Derks 04.10.2017 20:05 |
I just want every album put out as a virtual box like the Yes/King Crimson stuff. The original master, a brand-new stereo and 5.1 mix (by Steven Wilson!), an alternate album, instrumentals. Throw it all on a BluRay, put it in the shops for 21,99 and I'd be one happy camper. |
| Vocal harmony 04.10.2017 21:06 |
^^^ that would be to much of a fan friendly approach for the Queen machine to contemplate, and probably would involve too much production cost. |
| Togg 05.10.2017 07:54 |
Whenever we discuss these things I think it helps to look at it from a business point of view not a fan, they don't really consider the 'hardcore' fan when deciding to put out a release, as with all businesses ALL the decisions get made by looking at Excel spread sheets, who get fired who gets hired, what product, tour, merchandise item sold the most and was the cheapest to produce.... after that they look at tailoring it to suit the widest possible taste, sadly the hardcore fan that inhabits here is simoly not factored into it. I can be 100% that if a certain 'new' type of release doesnt sell they will quickly move past it and no to what they know works, the Greatest hits was such a huge success it out sold pretty well every other album in history, they took that and ran with it for decades. QP is seen by the industry as one of the most successful businesses in the industry, a huge back catalogue that keeps generating revenue, a hot musical that lead the way, and soon a hit film... in many ways Queen have lead the way in marketing, one of the few artists that compares to them is Gene Simmonds who frankly has no massive musical following, but has a band that is 100% marketing focused from dolls to T shirts, Kiss wouldn't excist without a massive marketing campaign and sells stuff to people that have never even seen the band play but just want the doll or lunchbox, they are amazing, imagine he he could actually play..... |
| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 11:28 |
Ignore the GIF ones...JPGs below!! |
| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 11:29 |
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| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 11:29 |
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| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 11:31 |
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| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 11:32 |
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| Negative Creep 05.10.2017 11:49 |
"Whenever we discuss these things I think it helps to look at it from a business point of view not a fan, they don't really consider the 'hardcore' fan when deciding to put out a release, as with all businesses ALL the decisions get made by looking at Excel spread sheets, who get fired who gets hired, what product, tour, merchandise item sold the most and was the cheapest to produce.... after that they look at tailoring it to suit the widest possible taste, sadly the hardcore fan that inhabits here is simoly not factored into it. " Right, but who do you think is going to buy a £100+ box set? In the grand scheme of things - very very few people. So that theory doesn't hold up. This is merely a current practise of trying to sell fewer units for a higher price. It's the same concept of raising inner city parking prices - they don't want more people, they just want to gouge a more select group of people. A normal CD set with rarities would sell many more units - fact. |
| Togg 05.10.2017 12:06 |
Well, given it's sold out on the first run i'm guessing more than just a few people... I would hazard a guess given that soooo many bands produce these big glossy pack releases that they feel there is a big enough market there, actaully I doubt they would make more money from a normal CD set, for starters they have to sell at 10x1 to get the same cash, secondly can you imagine the hoo ha here if all we got was another single CD with 3 rare live tracks.... nobody would buy it Enough people go to Queen gigs repeatedly and remember them from their youth to want to buy this set, its already sold out of the first run in a few days so clearly your view that only a few will buy it is not correct Often the very act of putting the price up high attracts more purchases, just ask Apple.... Look you will always get people that feel something is too expensive or not great value, but the fact is Queen have a lot of collectors that follow them and these guys do buy, Queen audience is also much older and richer now, people (like me) in our 50s have a lot more desposible income and so £100 is not a lot of money, it is if your a Taylor Swift fan, but not for a 70's rock band fan, hell £100 is a night out with two kids at the cinema... |
| uef 05.10.2017 15:29 |
Thought I'd write down what I can remember for this, both for my own purposes (I'll forget) and also to share info for those who couldn't make it on the day. Talk presented by Justin Shirley-Smith and Noel Harris, both assistant engineers on the original sessions. Sadly the producer, David Richards passed away in 2013 but he can be heard on the takes. Chaired by Matt Everitt of BBC 6 Music. Location: Metropolis Studios, Chiswick, London Innuendo Working title for the song - “Bolero” (as written on tape box) The first song we listened to. We spent about 2 hours on this song alone. Listened to various takes at various parts of the recording process. It (and a lot of the album apparently) was very much a creation of the studio; they’d sit there playing riffs and chords and mumbling until something took fruition. Early takes consisted of Freddie playing the keyboard opening chords and mumbling a basic version of the verse melody. No real lyric at this stage. Lots of discussion between Freddie and Brian on which chords to use… “and that brings it back nicely to the E”, says Brian. Freddie calls out for a C# chord at one point. We move to later takes in the recording process. By now, the song is sounding a lot more together. The verse is pretty much there, about half of the Spanish guitar bit and some of the ‘You can be everything you want to be’ section, not all of it. A later take. By this point Roger has written 95% of the verse and chorus lyrics (minus mid sections) and has made a guide vocal for the song. The Roger version of Innuendo would make a great ‘demo’ to go in a deluxe album set. It’s reasonably complete. We then listen to Brian and Steve recording the Spanish section. Brian has a go at doing the flamenco leads and they’re panned for comparison; Brian in the left channel and Steve in the right. Brian’s sounds pretty good! There’s a section of Steve’s line where Brian had to drop in a correction after he’d gone. Also heard is the lower of the guitar harmonies playing the ‘All through my sorrow, through my splendour’ guitar motif Brian has a few attempts at getting the end guitar run right. A band member suggests ‘we could change this, we could change that’. Brian replies ‘… or I could just get it right”. A long feedback section is recorded for the end. At some point there’s some discussion on what to do next while an impatient roger in the background shouts ‘COME ON’ from the drum recording room. Handclaps seemed to extend longer in the song than they do on the record. I’m Going Slightly Mad Freddie works this one out in the studio too. There are a lot of other “I’m not…” analogies tried before he settles on the final lyric. Brian plays a different slide solo, some of the notes make it into the final version. It’s altogether not as good as on the record. An ‘absolutely mental’ mix is played towards the end of the whole song. It’s utterly cacophonous and full of samples of screaming and random sound effects. Perhaps to be destined for a 12” mix or maybe dialled down to go on the record. Headlong A band member’s “Brian’s?” Handwritten chords on paper passed around. Song simply broken up into bars with a chord symbol in each. Recording setup for the song revealed to be 2 Zoom 9002 units in stereo, to the desk. No AC30 for the effect sounds. These are the Days of Our Lives Like Innuendo, a Roger version of this is heard where he sings the full song (in much the same manner as he does for the current Queen + Adam Lambert tour) Brian plays different trills in the verses. Guitar solo is only half as long - the louder/faster section isn’t in the earlier take. Some takes of the song feature Deacon playing a descending motif in the chorus on his bass. ‘These-are-the-days-of-our-‘ - that matches the vocal melody. In another take the same idea is tried on the chorus but using a Deacy amp guitar harmony. Again matching the ‘These-are-the-days-of-our-lives’ melody. It sounds quite out of place. Sonically similar in timbre and pitch to the ‘You’re my best friend’ outro guitars. It was removed for the record, possibly (recalls Justin) because it sounded too linear. Backing vocals are supplied by Brian and Roger at least on the takes we listen to. Guitar solo is revealed to have been played on the Zoom 9002, for the delay sounds. The Show Must Go On Mostly a Brian solo record in its demo form. Brian has the intro keyboards from the off and sings the whole song. There’s a particularly high part (I take it with a grin, I’m never giving in, on with the show) where Brian audibly struggles to sing with full voice (its sung instead in a very thin head/falsetto voice) - the same part he’s said in interviews that Freddie hated him for writing. Apparently this was checked over with Brian beforehand as to whether he wanted it listened to by us or not. Different guitar solos are played and there is some experimentation with harmonies in parts that aren’t quite right and would be further improved for the record. The building / the experience Metropolis Studios IS the Headlong video. Everything is there and looks like it did in 1991. The Art Deco exterior (that head the spotlights on it in the video) is the entrance /wall to the studio. The bookshelf the band lay on is there. We enter and go up the flight of stairs to the bar, the same stairs that Brian is playing his guitar on in the video. The studio looks the same as it did in 91, very much a creation of the early 90s with purples, blues and shiny steel. Only small things like speakers and computer monitors have changed. We’re shown the drum recording room, which is a fairly small concrete room of about 2.5 metres on each side. The larger recording room has a piano in the corner, regularly said to be Freddie’s but actually not the case. Still a lot of people recording there have claimed (or been told) that it’s his. The story goes that they didn’t like the sound of the house piano when recording and had Freddie’s Steinway brought in instead. This now lives in Brian’s house. We had our phones taken off us for the session so as not to record, and these were placed in the drum room. At one point a Queen fan asks ‘I’m sure you chaps are very interested in where the microphones were positioned, but I came here to listen to the tapes’. The Q&A ceases for a while, and we do some quick runs through other songs. The group is treated to a champagne reception, Moet et Chandon is served from a pretty bucket, and finger foods are served by waiting staff. After the session the group is treated to a free bar in the ‘Mercury bar’ upstairs. Justin, Noel, Greg Brookes and other members of the Queen team laugh, joke and drink with the fans. Atmosphere is very informal and jocular. The recording process Brian: Shure SM57s for the guitar amp, with one (possibly Neumann) facing into the sweet spot, one further back in the room (not 100% on details). Brian played Pete Cornish TB83 booster in the control room, with a longer cable that would go to a single AC30 in another room. Brian never in the room with the amp unless for specific feedback purposes e.g. noise at the end of Innuendo. Some Deacy amp recording, presumably using TB83 as well. Zoom 9002 into desk for solos on Headlong and Days of Our Lives, possibly others. Brian would find the sweet spot on the amp himself by listening to treble booster noise on headphones and repositioning mic. Freddie didn’t like wearing headphones to record vocals. Instead, they set microphone up on a stand in the studio approximately in the area where we were sitting. By his feet he had two monitors out of phase with each other to reduce spill into the vocal track. When listening to Freddie’s vocals solo, occasional band mix comes over from the monitors. This is |
| uef 05.10.2017 15:30 |
(cont.) This is an indelible part of the vocal track. Freddie used a Shure 85 (not 58!) for vocals. Trivia Brian came into the studios one day and heard drums int he distance. “Ah, Roger’s already here then” - he could tell from the sound which amazed the engineers. When recording Delilah - there was an argument over whether to use the lyric ‘you silly goose’. It was put to vote and the camp was split roughly down the middle as to whether to include it or not. Noel Haris was given the deciding vote. He asked Freddie, ‘Would you say that to your cat?’. Freddie said no. So Noel replied ‘well don’t say it then, it sounds silly’. Freddie apparently told him ‘well what the fuck do you know, you’re sacked!’. Not sure how jokingly Freddie meant this, but Noel said he apologised later that day. The phrase later used on a mix of Slightly Mad. Noel said that his tactic for avoiding band conflict was to go and make coffee to remove himself from the room. Brian messing around on guitar a lot between takes. At one point mixture of shredding and playing things like Johnny B Goode to other band members annoyance! One untitled blues Jam in which Brian is very much leading the arrangement. John plays bass as if unsure of the changes or maybe working out something more elaborate. Freddie had to enter the studio each day via a side entrance, with his bodyguard, to evade paparazzi who would stay at the front gate. The band and staff would eat locally some times in the week, and due to the location a band member would occasionally take a week off to be with their family. Part of the press treatment suggested to be part of the reason for moving to Montreaux for the later sessions. I’ll write up additional bits and pieces when I remember them. All in all a fantastic evening and I really hope that the demos we heard get to be heard by others some day. There didn't seem to be any plans to do so, but I did express interest in people hearing the demos but also the multitracks of the released songs. |
| *goodco* 05.10.2017 16:16 |
^ Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! Indeed, some (most?) of the demo versions should have been included on the 'bonus' disc back in 2011. And, I'll be very honest here.....I actually got some goose bumps reading about your experience and what was shared. |
| Golden Salmon 05.10.2017 16:40 |
Very cool read uef! Thank you and all the people who have shared details on the tracks.
[...]When recording Delilah - there was an argument over whether to use the lyric ‘you silly goose’. [...] The phrase later used on a mix of Slightly Mad.Haha, so that's where it came from! I’ll write up additional bits and pieces when I remember them. All in all a fantastic evening and I really hope that the demos we heard get to be heard by others some day. There didn't seem to be any plans to do so, but I did express interest in people hearing the demos but also the multitracks of the released songs.Our hero :-) I love the fact that there's probably a lot of Brian and Roger songs with at least a demo version with them on vocals. We knew this much, but it's nice to know they absolutely exist in the archives. Not the case with this album (Lost Opportunity?), but I wonder if anyone ever mentioned anything about Freddie versions of songs sung by Brian and Roger, either at this event or anywhere else. There have to be more than a handful of them, mostly considering there's live versions sung by Freddie. |
| cmsdrums 05.10.2017 20:10 |
uef wrote: Brian came into the studios one day and heard drums int he distance. “Ah, Roger’s already here then” - he could tell from the sound which amazed the engineers.Thanks so much for the write up - great stuff. I’m frankly amazed at the engineers being amazed!!..... 1) Queen had booked the studio so if drums were heard it’s no real surprise Brian would assume it’s Roger! 2) Roger has one of THE most identifiable drums sounds and styles of all time, and Brian had been playing with him for over 20 years at that point...and they’re surprised he recognised him?!! :-0 |
| Chief Mouse 05.10.2017 20:47 |
What an awesome comment, Uef! Thank you :) |
| uef 05.10.2017 22:14 |
cmsdrums wrote:There are I think 3 sets of studios there. But I get your point about his style, not to mention that he could have been playing one of their songs.uef wrote: Brian came into the studios one day and heard drums int he distance. “Ah, Roger’s already here then” - he could tell from the sound which amazed the engineers.Thanks so much for the write up - great stuff. I’m frankly amazed at the engineers being amazed!!..... 1) Queen had booked the studio so if drums were heard it’s no real surprise Brian would assume it’s Roger! 2) Roger has one of THE most identifiable drums sounds and styles of all time, and Brian had been playing with him for over 20 years at that point...and they’re surprised he recognised him?!! :-0 |
| Sebastian 06.10.2017 00:17 |
Magnificent write-up. |
| Togg 06.10.2017 12:12 |
cmsdrums wrote:Well, engineers sadly sometimes don't view drums as instruments and often can't hear the difference between drummers apart from volume...uef wrote: Brian came into the studios one day and heard drums int he distance. “Ah, Roger’s already here then” - he could tell from the sound which amazed the engineers.Thanks so much for the write up - great stuff. I’m frankly amazed at the engineers being amazed!!..... 1) Queen had booked the studio so if drums were heard it’s no real surprise Brian would assume it’s Roger! 2) Roger has one of THE most identifiable drums sounds and styles of all time, and Brian had been playing with him for over 20 years at that point...and they’re surprised he recognised him?!! :-0 Where were the pictures you posted of Roger's maple kit taken? |
| ggo1 06.10.2017 18:42 |
Thanks for writing this up. I'm glad you had such a wonderful experience and I'm a teensy bit jealous but appreciate the effort you put into sharing this with us. G. |
| cmsdrums 06.10.2017 19:16 |
Togg wrote: Where were the pictures you posted of Roger's maple kit taken?They were at the UK Music Hall Of Fame show at Alexander Palace....also managed to get a pair of Roger’s Vic Firth sticks carrying his signature (made just for him but god knows why they don’t sell them!!) |
| RafaelS 07.10.2017 20:33 |
TomP63 wrote: So there is some more gold in the archives after all? Thank you ANATO for your share, very, very interesting! TomAnd still they aren't releasing anything new regarding Innuendo neither on DVD or Blu Ray, which is a shame 15 years after the release of GVH2. |
| Dr Magus 08.10.2017 15:20 |
Many thanks for that, uef. Oh for an Innuendo 10 disc box set. |
| artist_nine 09.10.2017 10:39 |
uef wrote: We then listen to Brian and Steve recording the Spanish section. Brian has a go at doing the flamenco leads and they’re panned for comparison; Brian in the left channel and Steve in the right. Brian’s sounds pretty good! There’s a section of Steve’s line where Brian had to drop in a correction after he’d gone.So is it clear how much Brian is featured in the final version and who plays which part? |
| The Real Wizard 10.10.2017 17:31 |
uef wrote: We then listen to Brian and Steve recording the Spanish section. Brian has a go at doing the flamenco leads and they’re panned for comparison; Brian in the left channel and Steve in the right. Brian’s sounds pretty good! There’s a section of Steve’s line where Brian had to drop in a correction after he’d gone. Brian has a few attempts at getting the end guitar run right. A band member suggests ‘we could change this, we could change that’. Brian replies ‘… or I could just get it right”. A long feedback section is recorded for the end.It is nothing short of insane that they will go through the work to compile these tapes, but not release them. |
| RafaelS 10.10.2017 21:50 |
The Real Wizard wrote: It is nothing short of insane that they will go through the work to compile these tapes, but not release them. .Quite right Wizard, I hope that there's something very real for us fans at the end of all this. It is nothing short of insane that they will go through the work to compile these tapes, but not release them. |
| Adam Baboolal 10.10.2017 22:26 |
Surely, in 2017, you'd both realise there are no tapes to compile. Truth is, they compiled those tapes to digital many years ago. |
| Sebastian 08.02.2018 13:38 |
One of the best threads ever. |
| Chopin1995 09.02.2018 13:36 |
Sebastian wrote: One of the best threads ever.True! A few weeks ago I went through it all and copied interesting stuff to my notebook. But one question comes to mind. Quote - 'Innuendo started as the first track in early november 1989.' So what they were doing between March and October 1989 if Innuendo was the first track started in November? All sources say that Innuendo sessions started in March. Of course they still worked on The Miracle (shooting videos, interviews...) so they didn't have that much time? Just jam sessions? |
| Togg 09.02.2018 14:44 |
Maybe Innuendo will get the 30 year treatment? |
| mrsparkle 10.02.2018 00:03 |
let's just hope they don't wait for the 40th anniversary! |
| Sebastian 10.02.2018 06:16 |
Chopin1995 wrote: All sources say that Innuendo sessions started in March.A letter from Frederick to the fan club in late 1989 mention they'd start the sessions off in November. The album, at least my copy, hasn't got any months on the liner notes. All sources claiming March are on-line and they may have copied from each other... I read somewhere that (perhaps 'As It Began'?) cited 'Delilah' as having been demo'd in March, which would be the reason why at least one site jotted that down as the starting date and everybody else copied... but, if we're allowing that, then the actual starting date should be around 1987, as that's when 'All God's People' was started off. |
| cmi 10.02.2018 07:19 |
Seb, do you think All God's People started around 1987 as a band? I thought a demo was recorded by FM and Mike Moran in 1987 during (pre-)Barcelona sessions, but the band recorded a proper 'new' version from scratch in 1988 during 'The Miracle' sessions, which was completed during 'Innuendo' sessions in 1990. |
| Chopin1995 10.02.2018 16:03 |
Thanks Seb for the explanation! |
| Sebastian 10.02.2018 16:45 |
cmi wrote: Seb, do you think All God's People started around 1987 as a band? I thought a demo was recorded by FM and Mike Moran in 1987 during (pre-)Barcelona sessions, but the band recorded a proper 'new' version from scratch in 1988 during 'The Miracle' sessions, which was completed during 'Innuendo' sessions in 1990.Even if that'd been the case, the alleged March demo of 'Delilah' wasn't necessarily a band thing either... so, if that counts as the start of the sessions, then the very first demo of 'All God's People' should also qualify. Still... as far as it's been reported, it was meant to be a solo thing but even at early stages Frederick was adamant Brian guested on it. Does it count as a band thing then? Keep in mind 'Fight from the Inside', 'Is this the World We Created', 'Procession', 'God Save the Queen' and a few others also featured just two band members. And then gradually John and Roger also got involved and it became a Queen thing. In any case, all of those dates precede Spring 1989. If we're counting 'Delilah', we should count that one too. And if we're not counting 'All God's People', then early demos of 'Delilah' shouldn't count either and November 1989 is an accurate date for the beginning of the proper sessions (just like August 1975 can be counted as the beginning of the proper 'Opera' sessions, even though they later rescued an October 1974 rendition of the National Anthem and put it at the end of the record). |
| cmsdrums 10.02.2018 17:45 |
And should we count Queen II work as commencing as 1966/67 because Brian wrote ‘White Queen’ then, and News of the World as 1974 ish due to Roger demoing Sheer Heart Attack then?!? |
| Golden Salmon 10.02.2018 23:50 |
Weren't there some earlier versions of All God's People by Freddie, titled "Creatures of the Night" or "Africa"? I read something long ago, perhaps I'm mixing things up. Also, there's an Italian fan convention short recording of a 1989 Innuendo demo, which sounded very similar to the final version although Freddie's vocals are noticeably rougher. |
| Sebastian 11.02.2018 01:02 |
cmsdrums wrote: And should we count Queen II work as commencing as 1966/67 because Brian wrote ‘White Queen’ thenActually, he wrote it (lyrics at least) in 1969, but there's no evidence of him recording any bit of it then. The difference with 'Delilah', 'All God's People' and 'God Save the Queen' is that what they committed to tape long before the sessions proper wound up on the final cut. Same for loads of things pre-1991 which were included on the posthumous album. cmsdrums wrote: and News of the World as 1974 ish due to Roger demoing Sheer Heart Attack then?!?If any bits that he did in 1974 ended up in 1977, then it's the same case as 'Delilah' and 'All God's People' ... and 'God Save the Queen'. Golden Salmon wrote: Weren't there some earlier versions of All God's People by Freddie, titled "Creatures of the Night" or "Africa"?As far as I know: - 'Creatures of the Night' is a Kiss song. - 'Music of the Night' is a Phantom of the Opera song. - 'Africa by Night' is a rumoured title for 'All God's People'. Regarding 'Creatures of the Night': No evidence whatsoever of Frederick being involved with it at all. Regarding 'Music of the Night': There's that (possibly apocryphal) story of Frederick having been considered for that musical, and there's also the rumour of him having rehearsed it on piano at some point. Totally unrelated to 'All God's People'. Regarding 'Africa by Night': There's no official statement ever mentioning that title. When Mr Moran talked about it, no working titles were mentioned. |
| Riku M 12.02.2018 17:39 |
@sebastian, Africa by night is mentioned in the Freddie solo collection. |
| Sebastian 13.02.2018 20:40 |
Thanks. I stand corrected then: it's got an official mention, but no mention by live witnesses. |
| ggo1 15.02.2018 23:11 |
I think there is a difference between reworking an old demo versus, here is a new song for our next album. For me they start work on the next album once they start writing new songs with the intention of putting it on the next album. So all gods people wasn't written with the intention of putting it in what was to become innuendo, so I don't think you cam say that work started on Innuendo when they made the first demo of it. Just my opinion . Anything they demoed after The Miracle was locked would possibly be considered the start of work on that album. Of course they also worked on some Miracle b sides around then too, so who knows? |
| Sebastian 16.02.2018 02:55 |
@ggo1: Interesting points of view indeed. All in all, it comes down to conventions, many of which are ultimately arbitrary. Based on what you suggest, would you consider 27th October 1974 the start of the 'Opera' sessions? Keep in mind they didn't 'write' the National Anthem, but they did record it after the 'Sheer Heart Attack' album had been finished and sent to America to be mastered. On the other hand, they recorded it as a taped outro, not necessarily with the intention of having it on a (then hypothetical) fourth album. In terms of properly going to the studio to work on a new album, November 1989 is accurate for 'Innuendo' (despite some older things being eventually revisited later on). 'Made in Heaven' is another tricky one, as the January 1991 stuff they recorded were initially thought to be B-Sides for the singles, but then they allegedly liked them so much they decided to save them for an album. |
| TomP63 16.02.2018 07:15 |
Could it also be that some tracks which were recorded for Another Miracle ended up on Innuendo. Or is this far stretching? Tom |
| runner_70 16.02.2018 11:44 |
What is "ANother Miracle"?? |
| dudley-fufkin 7834 16.02.2018 12:37 |
all gods people was meant for barcelona album. the original instrumental idea was made into the song we get on innuendo |
| Sebastian 16.02.2018 14:42 |
runner_70 wrote: What is "ANother Miracle"??An urban legend. One of the letters one of the band members wrote to the fan club mentioned they were trying to produce 'another Miracle' (most likely referring to the fact they were doing another album probably in the same vein) and some people mistook it to mean they were calling the album 'Another Miracle'. dudley-fufkin 7834 wrote: all gods people was meant for barcelona album.No, it was not. |
| TomP63 16.02.2018 16:05 |
Thank you Sebastian, for clarifiyng that up. I always suspect it wat an 'urban legend'. It was indeed something I have read in one of the Queen Magazines. But there is a little truth in the legend though? If I'm not mistaken, Another Miracle was 'ready' for release, this could be an album with the B-sides and the extended versions? Or am I again wrong, if so I do apologize, must be my age then, in other words my memory is playing tricks on me ;-) Tom |
| Sebastian 16.02.2018 21:42 |
I'm happy to stand corrected if there's a single piece of evidence confirming they were planning to name the album that way. |
| Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 17.02.2018 04:53 |
|
| Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 17.02.2018 04:54 |
From the Winter 1989 fanclub magazine... a small blurb about "Alternative Miracle" |
| TomP63 17.02.2018 07:14 |
Thank you Adam! So that proves - for me it does - that there was a little project as an alternative Miracle. Tom |
| Sebastian 17.02.2018 14:40 |
TomP63 wrote: Thank you Adam! So that proves - for me it does - that there was a little project as an alternative Miracle.That's not what I'm disputing... I'm disputing that the album was gonna be titled that way. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. It wouldn't be the first time that magazine gets it wrong ... but also, it wouldn't be the first time that magazine gets it right. |
| TomP63 17.02.2018 19:25 |
Sebastian, true, but that was not my first point. I knew that I heard and read many years ago about the so-called Another Miracle. But I'm talking about a possible release which could happen thirty years ago. My first question to you or for that matter anyone, could it be possible that some tracks, left over of the Miracle sessions were used on Innuendo. Well, as you has written, that's it is not the case, then I thought about the Another Miracle. Which also never happend. But the snippet Adam has posted, is for me a little prove, that my memory is not playing tricks on me. In all fairness, how many interessing projects were postponned, cancelled, or never happend, this over a period of thirty years. Remember the On Air album? This is a release from 2016, but announced in 1995........ Tom |
| Sebastian 17.02.2018 22:57 |
We're aware of at least one 'Miracle'-era song which wound on up 'Innuendo', though, and it's precisely 'All Imaginary Skydaddy's People'. It was first for a solo project by Frederick but said solo project was shelved when 'Barcelona' happened. Then, they tried it out for 'The Miracle' and then finally for 'Innuendo'. |
| Wilki Amieva 21.02.2018 06:05 |
Actually, there WERE plans for an 'Alternative Miracle' album - called precisely THAT. When I contacted Kevin Metcalfe for an official query about the first Queen remasters he told me he was about to do the mastering for that album at that time (pre-November 1990). There's also some inside-memo from Capitol Records about this. And 'Africa By Night' which is basically the middle eight from 'All God's People' was indeed penned during the Barcelona sessions - it was probably never contemplated for the album, though. |
| Sebastian 21.02.2018 14:37 |
Wilki Amieva wrote: Actually, there WERE plans for an 'Alternative Miracle' album - called precisely THAT. When I contacted Kevin Metcalfe for an official query about the first Queen remasters he told me he was about to do the mastering for that album at that time (pre-November 1990). There's also some inside-memo from Capitol Records about this.In which case, I stand corrected. Thanks. Wilki Amieva wrote: And 'Africa By Night' which is basically the middle eight from 'All God's People' was indeed penned during the Barcelona sessions - it was probably never contemplated for the album, though.According to the man who co-wrote it, it was not: it was penned *before* the 'Barcelona' sessions - it was finished off and released later on, though. Unless, of course, you're merely talking about the middle-eight. |
| dudeofqueen 21.02.2018 17:17 |
Sebastian & Tom, re: >>I'm happy to stand corrected if there's a single piece of evidence confirming they were planning to name the album that way. Wasn't there a bootleg called "Another Miracle" that featured all of the B-sides and out-takes? |
| TomP63 22.02.2018 09:59 |
Dudeofqueen, a bootleg containing the B sides and outtakes, yes it may be outthere. I for one, never seen any kind of bootleg, but it would not surprise me at all. Tom |
| ***JAN*** 02.03.2018 20:38 |
I've always wanted to hear the isolated bass track of "I'm Going Slightly Mad"...Especially towards the end...Was that possible during the "Experience"? |
| TheAdmiester 03.03.2018 17:37 |
Semi off topic, but does anyone have any idea when Brian's bits of TATDOOL were shot? I know the main parts were filmed on May 30th but I've never seen any info on the added bits. |
| Bertus 06.03.2018 07:39 |
For all your Queen questions, Sebastian know everything (at least he thinks) |
| aristide1 06.03.2018 13:11 |
Statistically speaking, he knows everything. However, his seldom errors are delivered with the same superior confidence as his truths, which makes him unpleasant sometimes. Heil Frederick. |
| Stick 06.03.2018 13:23 |
Sebastian does know very, very much. But his most prolific quality is to engage in critical and rational thinking on a higher level than most people. He's also very polite and tries to look at most things logically. When others debate about something we don't know that much about, he is usually the one to point out exactly what we do and don't know and why. Lots of times he even provides a rational deduction process so everyone can understand how to get to the best conclusion about the subject. So not only does he provide us with a lot of accurate information regarding Queen, he is also one of those people you can learn from just by observing how he does things. His decade long presence on both Queen forums has only enriched the Queen community. He is a great example of a fine human being who teaches with his information, and with his way of doing things / looking at things. His being here helps people in their development of Queen knowledge and in their personal development of rational / critical thought simply by providing the example of himself. Simply put he is a very positive force on the internet. At least, that has been my experience, reading both forums for over a decade even though I don't post that much as you can see by my post count. You Bertus, have a long, long, long way to go if you ever wanna be as good as Sebastian is in life. You have a very nasty attitude problem and don't seem to think a lot in general. Completely the opposite of Sebastian. |
| Sebastian 06.03.2018 14:33 |
Moreover, I've admitted many times that I do not know everything. I know very, very, very few things compared to everything there is to know. In fact, a few weeks ago, I pointed out I was wrong about 'Africa by Night' and thanked the person who corrected me. |
| *goodco* 08.03.2018 19:20 |
There are more than a few of us who are grateful for the knowledge that you and so many others share with us here. We just don't always chime in to the conversations. The work and effort is appreciated.....trust me. |
| Bertus 08.03.2018 20:00 |
Stick.. I gave €1500,00 next month year for Cancer research and you? Last year €2000,00 for Childern Hospital. So stop sucking Sebastian, in the Netherlands we find him very annoying. |
| Stick 09.03.2018 10:51 |
Nee Bertus, in Nederland vinden we hem een zeer slim en alom gerespecteerd persoon. Een type als jij dat meent anderen in ons land te vertegenwoordigen? Laat me niet lachen man. Je bent een idioot van het zuiverste ras. Wat jij kunt vertegenwoordigen kun je denk ik nog het beste vinden in de grootste tokkie wijken van Rotterdam. Wat geef ik om niet bewezen gelul over donaties aan goede doelen? De meeste mensen doen het om hun geweten af te kopen en jij lijkt me daar een prima kandidaat voor. Je hebt namelijk ook nogal wat om af te kopen als je kijkt naar hoe je je hier gedraagt. Flikker die kinderlijke blik van je het raam uit, ga voor de spiegel staan, en vraag je eens oprecht af waarom men zo vaak commentaar heeft op je uitingen. Tip: het ligt niet aan de rest van de wereld. Er zit geen schaamte in bekennen dat je nog op verschillende gebieden van jezelf verder door moet ontwikkelen om de rust in jezelf te krijgen voor een correcte en heldere blik op jezelf en anderen. Succes. |
| Sebastian 09.03.2018 14:03 |
Bertus wrote: I gave €1500,00 next month year for Cancer research and you?Is it in the present or in the past? You use 'gave' (past) but then 'next month' (future). Bertus wrote: Last year €2000,00 for Childern Hospital.Even if that were true (there's no way to prove it wasn't), that wouldn't make your blatantly false claims any truer. Bertus wrote: So stop sucking Sebastian, in the Netherlands we find him very annoying.I'm fairly sure 99.99% of Dutch people don't know (and won't ever know) who I am. So maybe you and a couple of other people find me annoying. I can live with that. There's a difference, however, between 'We find him annoying' (nothing wrong with that) and 'he thinks he knows everything' (absolutely false), just like there's a difference between 'I prefer "Good Company" to "The Prophet's Song"' (nothing wrong with that, though many may disagree and that's also fine) and '"Good Company" is longer than "The Prophet's Song"' (it's not, and that's a black/white situation). |
| FriedChicken 14.03.2018 10:24 |
But Sebastian. If I believe that Good Company is longer than The Prophet's Song it is MY truth and I don't have to bring up any proof for that. Also, it really offends me when you say Good Company isn't longer :( |
| FriedChicken 14.03.2018 10:27 |
Ps, I'm from The Netherlands and I don't find you annoying. In fact I'm setting up a Kickstarter to fund a 40 meters tall Papier-Maché statue of you. |
| Ivan P. 14.03.2018 14:22 |
Hi all, Should we get back on topic? This was definitely one of the most interesting things Queen-related in the last few years. Unfortunately I didn't take notes, but there are some things which have not been said here, and are probably worth mentioning. I seem to recall the Innuendo sessions were Split in four: • Session 1 in Montreux approx Nov-Dec 1989 • Session 2 in London approx Jan-March 1990 • Session 3 in Montreux approx May-Jun 1990 • Session 4 in London approx Aug-Nov 1990 Now, regarding each song we heard: Innuendo Amazing. Undescribable. We spent 2 hours with only this song. It seems the song was writeen and developed in three separate sections: First, the main part of the song, which was a jam session with all four playing together. Freddie ad libbing some melody here and there. We heard a couple of takes of this section. Second, there was the spanish section, mainly developed by Brian it seems. There was even a line sung by him singing ”let my heart go, where the wind blows, don’t take offence at my innuendo…” , so different lyrics there. We then heard the main spanish guitars, with some runs by Brian and Steve. And third, the "you can be anything you want to be..." section, which Freddie developed by taking a drum loop section of the spanish motif heavy guitar section, and on which on top he played piano, with a very spanish feel, singing the melody which was finally used with a Montserrat falsetto flavour style. Later on, the piano and drums were taken out and they orchestrated it. I asked and Justin said maybe Freddie and David were in charged of the orchestration. We also heard a Roger sung version of Innuendo, with his self-written lyrics, which make the final cut, and noticeably one line was reversed, in which he sang: “Till the mountains crumble into the plain - boy While there's a wind and the stars and the rain” Then this line was reversed, and included rainbow, instead of rain, and took out the word “boy”. Hearing Roger sing this song was very nice, and he did a great job, but one of the main things I personally felt after hearing these 4 songs, is how much magic Freddie gave to the final versions. Roger sang great, and it is the same song, but Freddie singing elevates the song somehwere else, and makes it magical. I’m going slightly mad I think we heard an extended version of the Mad Mix version with lots of strange noises going on. Not much to say here to what has aready been said. These are the days of our lives Again, we heard Roger singing the song. And it was very similar to the final arrangement, but the chorus felt a bit awkward, some different chords in the “these are the days of our lives” line, and the backing vocals, possibly by Brian, felt like it was too much singing there. Difficult to explain, but the music in the chorus was a bit different, and the way it was sung changed the feeling of the song a bit. The solo was only half of what we hear today, only the first part was there. The Show Must Go On Another highlight of the afternoon. First thing we heard started with a drum machine, and everything on top of that, with Freddie singing. Then we heard a complete Brian sung version. He sings it exactly as the final version, but again, like I said before, then Freddie comes in and does his job, and wow! We were shown some guitar overdubs which were nothing short of amazing. A LOT of guitars in there. Lots of things going on in the background. Unfortunately we were rushed through the last 3 songs, because we were short of time, but I can tell you it was incredibly insightful. Well, that’s it I guess. If anybody wants to add/correct/ask anything on top of what I said above, go ahead. I hope you enjoy it! |
| Sebastian 14.03.2018 16:40 |
Really nice, thanks. David had told me ca fifteen years ago or so that he'd been the one who'd programmed the orchestra for that 3/4 bit. |
| Chopin1995 15.03.2018 13:39 |
Thank you for your additional info! Do you remember any more specific or approximate dates? Was there any discussion about the remaining songs? I'm especially interested in Bijou, Don't Try So Hard and All God's People. |
| Vali 15.03.2018 16:28 |
thanks a lot for the info Ivan. This is is the stuff that makes a thread like this really interesting ! |
| Ivan P. 18.03.2018 18:47 |
HI Chopin1985, No additional info was given. I actually asked Justin about first or last song to be recorded for this album and he said he didn't know/remember. |
| The Real Wizard 18.03.2018 23:10 |
Bertus wrote: For all your Queen questions, Sebastian know everything (at least he thinks)Who the hell are you, and what research have you done on Queen? Sounds like jealousy to me. Grow up. |
| The Real Wizard 18.03.2018 23:29 |
Wonderful to read the stories in this thread about the creative process in 1989-90. And equally tragic that this audio won't be released on a box set or something. If they're willing to play it to a select group of people, why not release it? There is no logical reason. |
| Adam Baboolal 19.03.2018 05:24 |
No logical reason? It helped raise money for a good cause. I'd say that's a pretty good reason. |
| Chopin1995 19.03.2018 10:59 |
Ivan P. wrote: HI Chopin1985, No additional info was given. I actually asked Justin about first or last song to be recorded for this album and he said he didn't know/remember.Thanks for your answer. |
| Chopin1995 19.03.2018 11:34 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Wonderful to read the stories in this thread about the creative process in 1989-90. And equally tragic that this audio won't be released on a box set or something. If they're willing to play it to a select group of people, why not release it? There is no logical reason.So Brian agreed on that on condition that nothing would be recorded, like he is afraid that people will hear non-perfected/work in progress Queen material. Opinions about this material from people who were there? - 'it was just amazing' - 'The jaws of the room dropped including Justin and Noël when this was played.' - 'Astonishing' - 'What musicians they were / are' - 'Very very impressing stuff.' - 'All in all a fantastic evening and I really hope that the demos we heard get to be heard by others some day.' - 'This was definitely one of the most interesting things Queen- related in the last few years.' - 'Amazing. Undescribable.' - 'it would be great to listen to some music! What do YOU think? Now, this is where my jaw started to drop…' - 'My God… hasn’t this been an amazing day?!?!' The best I can imagine is to release all of this and soundboard live recordings on the internet in digital form. This won't happen in the near future but when Q+AL will end it seems more possible. |
| Golden Salmon 19.03.2018 12:08 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: No logical reason? It helped raise money for a good cause. I'd say that's a pretty good reason.Do you know what would help raise more money? Releasing them! Just wait until some sort of anniversary or yet another partial release from Queen Productions. They're hellbent on milking and re-releasing Queen's legacy and this will be no different. When I realize, as a Jimi Hendrix fan, that they've yet to exhaust his archives and he died almost 50 years ago... In 2013, Eddie Kramer (the original engineer and main force behind new material released up to this day) mentioned that there were no more studio recordings left in the barrel, and they've already scraped two more albums since then. He's also implying on interviews that there's more studio releases to come. Now, consider that what's coming out from Hendrix is mostly outtakes of already known tracks, and there's so much unheard and unknown from Queen... |
| Adam Baboolal 19.03.2018 14:33 |
I've enjoyed this thread, so I'll apologise in advance for side-tracking with GoldenS... GS, tbh, while I love to hear new/unheard stuff, I don't hold anything against the band for not releasing anything in bulk. But, there have been some nice official releases over the last few years, so, I see no reason to complain. In saying that, It's their music and if it annoys someone like you when you don't get what you want - good. Personally, when fans start demanding Queen release demos and out-takes, we're in a different place. I'll be more blunt... Sadly, some fans want want want and forget one simple fact, the band don't have to give you or I anything unreleased. Be thankful for what you get. We all enjoy the music and enjoy reading and/or talking about the band, but, when it strays into selfish tendencies, for me, that's a big turn off. I want to hear those Innuendo sessions, but, I'm content knowing that maybe I won't get to hear them. This thread is filled with great posts by people who were there and it's fantastic to see how excited and delighted they were with the event. Thank you to those people who took the time to post their experiences! We are grateful for the info :) |
| Golden Salmon 19.03.2018 18:15 |
Granted, they don't *owe* us anything and I've always known that, but there are so many long-time fans who have been waiting for so many years, and there's a real chance we won't be alive by the time someone decides to release what we actually want... I really don't want to argue with anyone over that though, it's pretty pointless. I've been out of the loop for new Queen material for the last few years and in many ways I've moved on. However, the latest releases just make that itch harder to scratch. And then there are events like this one, which leaves us salivating for the smallest morsel they could possibly release. |
| Sebastian 19.03.2018 21:00 |
It hasn't got to be 'those people are greedy bastards because they don't release what I want' - it can be 'oh, it'd be really nice if they did.' Sure, they don't owe anyone anything and they're not bad people for keeping what they want to themselves, but still, it'd be really nice if they ever considered releasing those things. Maybe they won't, but we thought the same about so much material earlier on. So no, it's not a guarantee that the same will happen with these 'Innuendo' things, but still, it'd be nice if some day, one day, they thought about releasing that. Meanwhile, I'm obviously grateful to all those people sharing what they witnessed, and that'll be more than enough for now, but still, it'd be lovely if at some point in the future they decide to release all, most or some of those outtakes. It's not a demand, it's not a whine, it's not a threat. It's just a healthy, naive and hard (but not impossible) wish. |
| Adam Baboolal 20.03.2018 00:21 |
Well put, Seb :) |
| MisterCosmicc 09.05.2018 09:03 |
Great info. However, I’ll add nearly irrelevant information. That album... Another Miracle. Alternative Miracle. It had Miracle in the title, but I’m not sure those were the correct titles. Does anyone have copies of the old US version of the Queen fan club magazine in 1990? Someone from Queen Productions or whoever had forwarded the titles and descriptions of upcoming 1990 Christmas releases. It was written as if that album with Miracle b-sides and extended versions was a sure go, and the other listed product listed as upcoming ‘Live At Wembley ‘86’ which did happen. If I recall, it wasn’t a play on the titles for the album with The Miracle b-sides, they had released an action title. If anyone has those old US Queen fan club magazines, that’d be great. I forget the name of the magazine. |
| MisterCosmicc 09.05.2018 09:04 |
* actual title |
| MisterCosmicc 09.05.2018 09:12 |
“Actually, there WERE plans for an 'Alternative Miracle' album - called precisely THAT. When I contacted Kevin Metcalfe for an official query about the first Queen remasters he told me he was about to do the mastering for that album at that time (pre-November 1990). There's also some inside-memo from Etc etc” I’m not sure that’s what the title was precisely going to be. The info was released, but I’m not sure that was the exact title. Do you have a photo of the press release or whatever on it? It was sent out as an upcoming release... |
| MisterCosmicc 09.05.2018 09:24 |
Then again, maybe I’m wrong and that’s what I read, but I swear they started hinting it’d be a Christmas season release. Hate it when people can’t be certain. |
| cmsdrums 09.05.2018 09:27 |
It was slated to be called 'The Alternative Miracle' and was announced in the Spring 1990 fan club magazine - it was to collate all the B Sides and 12" mixes in one place, but was pulled. |
| MisterCosmicc 09.05.2018 09:57 |
Should have happened. |
| Golden Salmon 09.05.2018 10:30 |
^We can make it ourselves! An even more complete one too. Although CMI's expanded Miracle is about the best you're gonna get. |
| MisterCosmicc 10.05.2018 00:22 |
True. But I love spending much money. |
| Martin Packer 10.05.2018 08:05 |
Maybe "The Alternative Miracle" was going to be put out if Innuendo couldn't be completed - or looked as if it couldn't. A sort of "Plan B". |
| Sebastian 14.08.2020 15:48 |
Bumped as I want swift access to this thread for something I'm researching. |