The Real Wizard 12.02.2017 22:30 |
I'm doing some research on the Golders Green 9-13-73 show, now officially released on "On Air". I'm looking for a bootleg tape labelled as 10-20-73 Paris Theatre in London, which for ages has been known as a fake of the 9-13-73 show - but I've also learned that is the date of the first BBC broadcast of the Golders Green show, which means a tape labelled as such may be of the original BBC broadcast. After ignoring this date on people's lists for ages, it might actually be kind of valuable, even to just have a track listing. Does anyone have this in their collection on either cassette or CDR? It'd be nice to know whether or not they aired the whole show. Thanks ! |
The Real Wizard 12.02.2017 22:58 |
This cue sheet from a 2001 broadcast is almost certainly the same as a WMMS Cleveland broadcast in 1975, as it, too, was advertised as a split Randy Newman / Queen programme. I wasn't able to find much info on the Randy Newman portion, but apparently it was recorded in 1975, which could likely mean the 1973 broadcast of the Queen material had different content. ...and the erroneous mention of the material having been recorded at the Paris Theatre not only indicates how bootleg tapes with this label first started to circulate, but the lack of quality control also suggests that the band probably didn't know the broadcast was even happening. |
brians wig 13.02.2017 04:16 |
Mine has the first 4 songs only and SWAFIB cuts off near the end! Strange. Terrible sound too. On a positie note, I've found another, cleaner full version of the opening intro to Ogre Battle (BBC Session!).... |
pittrek 13.02.2017 07:15 |
So what, will we compile our own BBC compilation ? :) |
brians wig 13.02.2017 10:09 |
pittrek wrote: So what, will we compile our own BBC compilation ? :)Of course! |
The Real Wizard 13.02.2017 12:24 |
brians wig wrote: I've found another, cleaner full version of the opening intro to Ogre Battle (BBC Session!)....Cool ! Bring it on. |
. 13.02.2017 14:57 |
Can't help I'm afraid, my copy has the Paris Theatre gig on it. |
The Real Wizard 13.02.2017 15:15 |
The Kurgan wrote: Can't help I'm afraid, my copy has the Paris Theatre gig on it.Eh? Queen never played the Paris Theatre. See above re: explanation for why it has that label. So if you have something labelled as such, it's precisely what I'm looking for ! |
Barry Durex 13.02.2017 16:00 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Eh? They played three gigs in London in preparation for the Mott tour, the first being at the Paris Theatre on October 20th, followed by two dates at Imperial college on October 26th and November 2nd. Sources: link and linkThe Kurgan wrote: Can't help I'm afraid, my copy has the Paris Theatre gig on it.Eh? Queen never played the Paris Theatre. See above re: explanation for why it has that label. So if you have something labelled as such, it's precisely what I'm looking for ! |
brians wig 13.02.2017 17:34 |
The Kurgan wrote: Can't help I'm afraid, my copy has the Paris Theatre gig on it.LOL. That's SO 'straight', I'm not sure if you're being flippant or otherwise! ;-) |
Barry Durex 13.02.2017 17:39 |
Is this another conspiracy thread, or has Bob lost the plot again? |
The Real Wizard 13.02.2017 21:11 |
Barry Durex wrote:Oh jesus, you're right. I always thought it was a fake date because the recording was a fake. You learn something every day.The Real Wizard wrote:Eh? They played three gigs in London in preparation for the Mott tour, the first being at the Paris Theatre on October 20th, followed by two dates at Imperial college on October 26th and November 2nd. Sources: link and linkThe Kurgan wrote: Can't help I'm afraid, my copy has the Paris Theatre gig on it.Eh? Queen never played the Paris Theatre. See above re: explanation for why it has that label. So if you have something labelled as such, it's precisely what I'm looking for ! But my original point still stands - the tape is almost certainly from Golders Green. It's just a matter of which version it is. |
dysan 14.02.2017 01:56 |
Queen were in London on that date and not Paris. |
Barry Durex 14.02.2017 02:14 |
dysan wrote: Queen were in London on that date and not Paris.Eh? The Paris Theatre was at 12 Lower Regent Street, London. It was a converted Cinema, often used by the BBC for radio broadcasts. |
dysan 14.02.2017 02:20 |
I KNOW! Just helping with the general sense of fail in the thread :) |
Cockeye 14.02.2017 11:21 |
In 1973 paris was in France, not the UK. |
pittrek 15.02.2017 02:29 |
brians wig wrote:With Blackjack and hookers? :)pittrek wrote: So what, will we compile our own BBC compilation ? :)Of course! |
dysan 15.02.2017 07:04 |
BBC no longer means the Beeb for me since I've be frequenting certain video hosting sites recently. |
GT 18.02.2017 00:03 |
The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all. |
The Real Wizard 18.02.2017 02:26 |
GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.Ahhh - thanks for the clarification ! And more importantly, this means I was right to begin with ;) |
Barry Durex 18.02.2017 06:12 |
GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.Cut and pasted from link Live 1973 Their first gig of the year at the Marquee is set up as a 'showcase' event for Elektra executive Jack Holtzman, who may sign the band, but first wants to see them perform live before he can make a final decision. In August he band return to Trident Studios to begin work on what will become ‘Queen II’. This time they record under proper conditions, not in downtime, and progress much more efficiently. They cover a great deal of ground and capture on tape faithful renditions of the material they have been playing live and experimenting with in rehearsals. Their show at Golders Green Hippodrome is recorded by the BBC for an In Concert broadcast, and a forty minute edit is transmitted the following month, on October 20, on Radio 1. This is followed by Queen’s very first concerts outside the UK, in Germany and Luxembourg, and then three concerts in London in preparation for a 25 date tour of the UK supporting Mott The Hoople. Misc Concerts Mon 9th Apr – UK, London, Marquee Club Fri 13th July – UK, Basingstoke, Queen Mary College Mon 23rd July - UK, Marquee Club Thu 13th Sept – UK, London, Golders Green Hippodrome Friday 3rd Aug - UK, Newcastle, The Mayfair Sun 14th Oct – Luxembourg, Luxembourg, Le Blow Up Tue 16th Oct Germany, Bonn, Bad Godesburg The Underground Club Sat 20th Oct – UK, London, Paris Theatre Fri 26th Oct – UK, London, Imperial College Fri 2nd Nov – UK, London, Imperial College Mott The Hoople UK Tour Mon 12th Nov – UK, Leeds, Town Hall Tue 13th Nov – UK, Blackburn, St Georges Thu 15th Nov – UK, Worcester, Gaumont Fri 16th Nov – UK, Lancaster, University Sat 17th Nov – UK, Liverpool, Stadium Sun 18th Nov – UK, Hanley, Victoria Hall Mon 19th Nov – UK, Wolverhampton, Civic Hall Tue 20th Nov – UK, Oxford, New Theatre Wed 21st Nov – UK, Preston, Guildhall Thu 22nd Nov – UK, Newcastle, City Hall Fri 23rd Nov – UK, Glasgow, Apollo Theatre Sun 25th Nov – UK, Edinburgh, Caley Cinema Mon 26th Nov – UK, Manchester, Opera House Tue 27th Nov – UK, Birmingham, Town Hall Wed 28th Nov – UK, Swansea, Brangwyn Hall Thu 29th Nov – UK, Bristol, Colston Hall Fri 30th Nov – UK, Bournemouth, Winter Gardens Sat 1st Dec – UK, Southend, Kursaal Sun 2nd Dec – UK, Chatham, Central Fri 7th Dec – UK, Cheltenham, College Sat 8th Dec – UK, Liverpool, University Fri 14th Dec – UK, London, Hammersmith Odeon (afternoon show) Fri 14th Dec – UK, London, Hammersmith Odeon (evening show) Misc Concerts Sat 15th Dec – UK, Leicester, University Fri 21st Dec – UK, Taunton, County Hall Sat 22nd Dec – UK, Peterborough, Town Hall Fri 28th Dec – UK, Liverpool, Top Rank Text taken from the forthcoming revised and updated edition of Queen Live: A Concert Documentary, by Greg Brooks & Gary Taylor |
brians wig 18.02.2017 08:19 |
GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.Hmmm. I can only assume that's why a BBC recorded gig was given the wrong venue info when it leaked onto bootleg. Someone somewhere in the dim and distant past must have known of the planned gig and put two and two together. Nice bit of info Gary. Thanks! |
Barry Durex 19.02.2017 05:35 |
So what REALLY happened at the Luxembourg gig on the 14th then GT? |
. 19.02.2017 10:21 |
GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' I will have no confidence in the ''facts'' quoted in any forthcoming revised and updated editions of ''Queen Live: A Concert Documentary'' I'm afraid. I'll treat it like a novel, if it ever gets published that is. |
The Real Wizard 19.02.2017 14:02 |
The Kurgan wrote:This was a matter of his inability to hear that it was a lesser quality version of an existing show.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' If it was just this error and a couple errors in the book, we'd give him a free pass - but there are literally hundreds of mistakes, plenty of which are things he added purely for the sake of filling in blank dates. In any other field of historical research it'd be a disgrace to his field. |
. 19.02.2017 16:26 |
The Real Wizard wrote:I haven't heard that particular recording so I can't possibly comment, but judging by your reply I assume you have.The Kurgan wrote:This was a matter of his inability to hear that it was a lesser quality version of an existing show. If it was just this error and a couple errors in the book, we'd give him a free pass - but there are literally hundreds of mistakes, plenty of which are things he added purely for the sake of filling in blank dates. In any other field of historical research it'd be a disgrace to his field.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' I have no doubt the Archivist will be involved in any forthcoming updated and revised edition, so I stand by my previous comment and will treat it as a novel rather than a factual document. |
The Real Wizard 20.02.2017 02:03 |
The Kurgan wrote: I haven't heard that particular recording so I can't possibly comment, but judging by your reply I assume you have.No, I haven't either - but by process of elimination, if the Paris Theatre show didn't happen, then the tape is obviously of another show. |
GT 20.02.2017 02:46 |
The Kurgan wrote:The book was written before any of these facts were truly known, and only in the last few years have many of these shows been updated and corrected.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' I will have no confidence in the ''facts'' quoted in any forthcoming revised and updated editions of ''Queen Live: A Concert Documentary'' I'm afraid. I'll treat it like a novel, if it ever gets published that is. |
GT 20.02.2017 02:52 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Absolutely, which is why I took control and corrected mistakes, removed wrong text and added new info.The Kurgan wrote:This was a matter of his inability to hear that it was a lesser quality version of an existing show. If it was just this error and a couple errors in the book, we'd give him a free pass - but there are literally hundreds of mistakes, plenty of which are things he added purely for the sake of filling in blank dates. In any other field of historical research it'd be a disgrace to his field.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' |
pittrek 20.02.2017 02:59 |
Gary, is there a chance the new edition of the book will come out soon (meaning in this decade)? |
. 20.02.2017 04:39 |
GT wrote:That's no excuse, a fact is ONLY a fact when it IS a fact.The Kurgan wrote:The book was written before any of these facts were truly known, and only in the last few years have many of these shows been updated and corrected.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' I will have no confidence in the ''facts'' quoted in any forthcoming revised and updated editions of ''Queen Live: A Concert Documentary'' I'm afraid. I'll treat it like a novel, if it ever gets published that is. It stands to reason you don't write a book claiming to be factual if you don't actually know the facts to begin with. fact fakt/ noun noun: fact; plural noun: facts a thing that is known or proved to be true. |
brians wig 20.02.2017 05:56 |
Hmmmm. Quite often, "Fact" is "Fact" until it's proved incorrect! To be fair. Greg Brooks originally put his book together by talking to other fans who had collected tapes for years: gathering their information and anecdotes. When it first came out, it was a bloody good book and and an absolute God send to the rest of us who were still trawling Record Fairs at the time. If nothing else, it gave us ideas of which concerts were likely to be the most interesting to listen to and it also helped us weed out the blatant made-up venues that many "bootleggers" at the time claimed they came from in an attempt to fool the buyer and re-sell the same old concerts (which had been edited). Sure. There are mistakes which, in the hindsight of over two decades of further information coming to light, new discoveries, new recordings and the coming together of fans from all over the world via the internet (which was barely out of nappies in 1995 when the book was first published), should ow have been corrected as best they can. Against all odds and no help from QPL whatsover, he did an amazing job. I'm convinced it was his work on this book which actually got him the job at Queen's Archivist. The new edition (which has been in the works for YEARS now, whist it's been cross-checked with all known available data), should be as close to "Fact" as we can possibly get: until such time as something new comes to light. I'm looking forward to it. |
The Real Wizard 20.02.2017 11:44 |
brians wig wrote: To be fair. Greg Brooks originally put his book together by talking to other fans who had collected tapes for years: gathering their information and anecdotes. When it first came out, it was a bloody good book and and an absolute God send to the rest of us who were still trawling Record Fairs at the time. If nothing else, it gave us ideas of which concerts were likely to be the most interesting to listen to and it also helped us weed out the blatant made-up venues that many "bootleggers" at the time claimed they came from in an attempt to fool the buyer and re-sell the same old concerts (which had been edited). Sure. There are mistakes which, in the hindsight of over two decades of further information coming to light, new discoveries, new recordings and the coming together of fans from all over the world via the internet (which was barely out of nappies in 1995 when the book was first published), should ow have been corrected as best they can. Against all odds and no help from QPL whatsover, he did an amazing job. I'm convinced it was his work on this book which actually got him the job at Queen's Archivist.Yes - all correct. But we're talking about the second edition from the mid-2000s, where there were even more mistakes than the original. In the digital age, this was completely unacceptable. |
The Real Wizard 20.02.2017 11:45 |
GT wrote:I can't imagine the minefield it was, being a voice of reason in an environment where reason was occasionally reasoned with.The Real Wizard wrote:Absolutely, which is why I took control and corrected mistakes, removed wrong text and added new info.The Kurgan wrote:This was a matter of his inability to hear that it was a lesser quality version of an existing show. If it was just this error and a couple errors in the book, we'd give him a free pass - but there are literally hundreds of mistakes, plenty of which are things he added purely for the sake of filling in blank dates. In any other field of historical research it'd be a disgrace to his field.GT wrote: The show at the Paris Theatre on 20 October 1973 should have been recorded by Radio 1 but the gig itself was pulled and the gig never played at all.So we are now led to believe the whole audience were evacuated from the Theatre, despite the fact the Queen Archivist stating (in print) ''A recording of this show does exist, but the poor sound quality suggests it was made by a member of the audience.'' Basically like most corporate jobs. |
. 20.02.2017 12:01 |
A minefield indeed, despite my rant, good luck with the project GT (although I won't be buying it again). .... and perhaps update and revise that 1973 article on QOL! |
Barry Durex 23.02.2017 03:21 |
GT - Re Luxembourg on the 14th, the '95 book states it was planned to be broadcast on Radio Luxembourg but because of equipment failure nothing was recorded. Was the gig still itself played though, or did everyone get turned away? |
cmsdrums 24.02.2017 02:56 |
As I've previously stated in other posts, my confidence in Greg Brooks' factual accuracy and proof-reading skills has been sorely tested over the years, but was extinguished completely when I attended the 'Stormtroopers in Stilettos' exhibition, and was presented with a 6 ft high, 20 ft wide wall mural that claimed 'Bohemian Rhapsody' was a track on the Queen II album. |
. 24.02.2017 03:09 |
link So how much of this is fact, and what exactly is in the archives? NB: The BBC Radio schedules in the UK reveal it was only broadcast the one time, which was on October 20th 1973 at 6:30PM on Radio 1. Peter Skellern was the other Artist featured in the one hour broadcast. link |
martin S 24.02.2017 04:04 |
And the name of the city the first german gig took place is actually Bad Godesberg. Tiny detail but nevertheless. Cheers |
GT 24.02.2017 16:30 |
Barry Durex wrote: GT - Re Luxembourg on the 14th, the '95 book states it was planned to be broadcast on Radio Luxembourg but because of equipment failure nothing was recorded. Was the gig still itself played though, or did everyone get turned away?Yes this gig still took place and was Queen's first concert outside the UK. |
Barry Durex 24.02.2017 16:48 |
Thanks Gary. |