| goose44 25.01.2017 14:26 |
during the 80's we saw a dip in their music, their creativity, their ilves and so forth. Rank some of these factors in importance to the downfall of the band. Paul Prenter Michael Jackson influence Record deal with Capital records and the issues with the company I want to Break Free video Freddie caring about about partying and having just worrying about going out and having gay sex all the time and less interested in music which led to less creativity and not caring as much about the music he was makiing His solo record Mr. Bad Guy. If you see in some bio's you hear that he really wanted a solo career and wated his record to sell more than Queen records and basically spit in the band's faces and say he was bigger than anyone buy when it failed he was embarrassed and realized that he failed. This is my list. Feel free to rank or discuss or add to it. |
| Kuijpy 25.01.2017 14:54 |
OMG, another Newbie with a stupid post, Whats your next question? When did Fred know that he had Aids? |
| mooghead 25.01.2017 15:06 |
"This is my list. Feel free to rank or discuss or add to it." No. Shut up. |
| goose44 25.01.2017 15:10 |
fuck you then. It is a legitimate question. If you don't want to discuss it then fuk off |
| mooghead 25.01.2017 15:35 |
Sorry to piss on your parade but don't ask the same question for the millionth time..... |
| ANAGRAMER 25.01.2017 16:20 |
Basically, they can blame the record company or whoever else but the point when Queen 'lost' America was Hot Space They miscalculated the market and thought the funk stuff would sell, and it just might have had it been a decent well-written album produced by an authentic R and B producer They lost fans there because most rock fans think the album was a turd and didn't trust Queen to make a better one next time Pity.... |
| Fireplace 25.01.2017 17:53 |
I appreciate you taking the time to mention that Freddie was having gay sex, as opposed to healthy hetero sex. |
| Oscar J 25.01.2017 18:24 |
Yeah. If only he hadn't been such a homo. |
| *goodco* 26.01.2017 00:01 |
not mentioned, but for the umpteenth time x a thousand, and to answer for everyone else, here are the three main reasons Hot Space Hot Space Hot Space |
| matt z 26.01.2017 00:24 |
if only they'd labeled hot space properly SIDE A: SNATCH SIDE B: ASS then it would have been a forerunner ahead of its time as a new type of concept album. After all, I believe that may have been the "hot space" they were referring to. "Cocaine and hookers" - MACK (not a direct quote) |
| The Real Wizard 26.01.2017 01:04 |
Stop being a dick, whoever's being a dick. The question is legit, and it's never quite been framed like this. Mr Bad Guy was way later on, so that's unrelated. And Break Free probably wasn't a big deal either, as Queen likely weren't getting much airtime on MTV. Hair bands were. It's unlikely that MJ had much more of an influence on them besides suggesting to release Dust as a single. And if we're measuring success in numbers, that's certainly not a bad thing ! Freddie's partying lifestyle got in the way of his creativity, but the rest of the band picked up the slack - all of their big hits between 80 and 86 (minus Under Pressure and One Vision, both collaborative) were written by the others. The remaining categories can be divided into business and public, and really can't be easily measured since they have such different roles to play in a band's success. It largely comes down to Hot Space. Side 1 of that album left a foul taste in most Queen fans' mouths in the US. People still would've come out to the shows had they toured for The Works, but Prenter severed most of their US relationships in a single blow, so it's one of those things we'll never know. The choices for singles certainly didn't help, either - Brian's distinctive guitar sound hadn't been heard on the radio since 1978, and by the time One Vision came out they were just so far off the radar. A good chunk of their fans were listening to Judas Priest and Iron Maiden by then. So I'd say Hot Space and various business decisions are equally to blame. |
| Queenman!! 26.01.2017 07:58 |
Kuijpy wrote: OMG, another Newbie with a stupid post, Whats your next question? When did Fred know that he had Aids?========== Did Freddie had aids? Way no... Where's John deacon? Used to see him at the local stripclub . Guess he ran out of money. |
| cmsdrums 26.01.2017 08:40 |
Another factor was bad luck with regard to the film projects they attached themselves to...both Flash Gordon & Highlander were pretty good films (IMO), but both were relative flops in the US...if they had been big ceinema hits this may well have brought a greater return for the band. |
| matt z 26.01.2017 08:41 |
Yep. The Real Wizard brings some sense to this. Also a factor is the band was past their 10th anniversary... many bands tried to change to keep with the times. Queen didn't have a statewide hit and their INITIAL audience was 10 years older. the attempt to catch on didn't work in 82, and pop fan bases and teenagers were discovering Prince, Michael Jackson (he never left), The Cure, goth stuff, DEPECHE MODE, whatever. .. so there was also a pitfall thing going on generation wise. and just like the wizard says, rock crowds went on to (mostly) better things. HIGHLANDER didn't catch on like it ought to have, so a tremendous song WWTLF didn't make much noise in the states. In fact a lot of critics derided it over here and said the story "made no sense" so what Queen were likely left with were: loyal fans that didn't have children by now fans from 1982/The SNL show emerging curiosity from Science Fiction fanboys (flash/highlander) placement in a trending film fad (TOP GUN style movie: IRON EAGLE) without a contemporary sound and without credible ROCKERS for the rock and roll audience - they kept straddling the pop fences as it were - in an international sense. it got away, they floundered. Maybe if there had been some standard rock and roll on a few of the 80's albums they'd have had something. only thing that refreshed the memory was IWIA in 1989. Of course all this stuff is speculation. Also: artistically, while others were writing songs of reflection on their current times, Queen were uncontroversial. The closest they got was Is This the World We Created. .? so even Rush had subdivisions, Priest had Out in the Cold, Whitesnake had babes, hairspray and T&A and air presence, Crue had the same, only with younger sluttier fans, and the emerging Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica had a more aggressive, isolated and jock following. my two cents say there wasn't much of an interest in grandiose love songs and retro girl group pop (pain is so close. .) etc so the way I see it they lost the rock crowd, lost the loner crowd, lost the art rock crowd (that likes good music regardless) with hot space, lost radio and tv presence, didn't keep up with the times, didn't play rock and roll on new albums, and just lost the significance. just cause these topics come up again doesn't mean people should be immediately spat on, ...it just tends to happen here. |
| Costa86 26.01.2017 12:54 |
It's a decent question, not sure why all the hate. I think the biggest factor was that the quality of their music just dropped. Hot Space was the epitome of all this. Also it was hard for them to maintain the huge level of popularity they had previously. It's hard for all bands. But they bounced back, and even now they're still one of the best known bands in the world with some of the most loved songs. |
| goose44 26.01.2017 14:00 |
When I originally said all the gay sex, I meant he did more and more partying with always clubbing in Munich and NYC at the start of 81-82. All he cared about was picking up men and going out and thus less concentrated on the band. |
| The Real Wizard 26.01.2017 16:31 |
goose44 wrote: When I originally said all the gay sex, I meant he did more and more partying with always clubbing in Munich and NYC at the start of 81-82. All he cared about was picking up men and going out and thus less concentrated on the band.Sure, but no need to highlight that the sex is gay. That's what seemed to offend people. Gay marriage is now marriage in the civilized world, so gay sex should be sex. There should be no need to differentiate it. |
| Costa86 26.01.2017 17:09 |
That's right, sex is sex, no need to qualify it. |
| AlbaNo1 26.01.2017 17:10 |
I notice Body Language is actually Queens fifth highest charting US single. What happened . Only non Queen fans bought it and the real Queen fans went in the huff for 10 years ? |
| mike hunt 26.01.2017 21:04 |
Hot Space of course! Yea, Body Language did well on the charts, but the song and the album drove rock fans away from the band. I was only 11 at the time, but I do remember Hot Space being talked about negatively. They were still popular at that point, then after Hot Space they were never mentioned again, though GA Ga did manage to hit the top 40 in 84. Priest went through this stage with Turbo, the album sold well because of the past classic album, but it drove away Metal fans. the next album and tour were a failure. Turbo almost ruined Priest , 2 albums later they put out the excellent Painkiller. The fans came back. Queen needed a classic album after HS, but instead came back with The Works And Then A Kind Of Magic. By the time Innuendo came out it was to late. |
| dysan 27.01.2017 01:22 |
I don't think anyone should've been offended by the use of the term 'gay sex'. |
| Dim 27.01.2017 02:19 |
Queen was the only band in early 80s, where they had cathed some of the forthcoming music directiond that took place in this decade. The dance Rock of Michael Jackson, Queen did that with AOBTD and Damon Attack, Dancer, Back Chart etc,. The power and cheesy Ballads... The hard rock songs with synths like the hero, football fight. So they had to make a choice but it was a mixed bag... I agree that less guitar, Rock songs, and solid albums was one of the big factors for losing the States. The other factors were bad PR, no tour policy and early 1984 record industry Payola. The Works album is the best example of the bad PR, the record industry problem and no touring. It was going higher every week on the charts, the same Radio Ga Ga, and the all the above along with banning Break Free from MTv, took place and Queen lost USA |
| matt z 27.01.2017 02:34 |
I here ya Dysan. it's going too far. to add: suppose someone said the expression "sexual intercourse" .... well, that is still defined as penile insertion into a vaginal orifice. Namely because it originated in procreation of the species. I wish this PC thing would use discretion before it had gotten this silly. the use was merely descriptive. |
| rschoorl 27.01.2017 06:25 |
Having been a big fan way back when, my sense is that the downfall started with Jazz, it was the first album that started to feel formulaic and there was nothing groundbreaking, like there had been on all the previous releases. Although The Game was huge in the US, it was with a totally new audience, the old rock fans were already going or gone. Add that to the fact that the homophobic population at the time were for some reason OK with androgyny, but when Freddie leathered up and sported a Village People mustache it was too much. I personally think Hot Space and the I Want to Break Free video, were both well after the core had already been lost. |
| mike hunt 27.01.2017 07:54 |
rschoorl wrote: Having been a big fan way back when, my sense is that the downfall started with Jazz, it was the first album that started to feel formulaic and there was nothing groundbreaking, like there had been on all the previous releases. Although The Game was huge in the US, it was with a totally new audience, the old rock fans were already going or gone. Add that to the fact that the homophobic population at the time were for some reason OK with androgyny, but when Freddie leathered up and sported a Village People mustache it was too much. I personally think Hot Space and the I Want to Break Free video, were both well after the core had already been lost.That pretty much sums it up! The old fans of the first 6 albums were mostly lost when they heard The Game, though they did make a lot of new fans. In all honesty I think The Game is one those albums that most of old fans enjoy today. Dragon Attack was never a hit, but pretty popular on rock radio in my area. Then Hot Space came out and they lost the new and old fans. At that point they needed to put out an updated version of their classic albums to regain their fans. The Works was ok, but far from a classic, it still could have had a 2nd top 40 hit and sold better if they toured and picked Hammer to Fall or Hard life as a single. I don't think the homophobia thing had an impact, that's the only thing I disagree with you on. Did you see Freddie in the 70's? |
| mike hunt 27.01.2017 08:01 |
Dim wrote: Queen was the only band in early 80s, where they had cathed some of the forthcoming music directiond that took place in this decade. The dance Rock of Michael Jackson, Queen did that with AOBTD and Damon Attack, Dancer, Back Chart etc,. The power and cheesy Ballads... The hard rock songs with synths like the hero, football fight. So they had to make a choice but it was a mixed bag... I agree that less guitar, Rock songs, and solid albums was one of the big factors for losing the States. The other factors were bad PR, no tour policy and early 1984 record industry Payola. The Works album is the best example of the bad PR, the record industry problem and no touring. It was going higher every week on the charts, the same Radio Ga Ga, and the all the above along with banning Break Free from MTv, took place and Queen lost USAI feel the Works should have been more successful In the States. Think a less popular version of The Game. Ga Ga was a minor hit without the benefit of a tour. |
| splicksplack 27.01.2017 09:35 |
matt z wrote: I here ya Dysan. it's going too far. to add: suppose someone said the expression "sexual intercourse" .... well, that is still defined as penile insertion into a vaginal orifice. Namely because it originated in procreation of the species. I wish this PC thing would use discretion before it had gotten this silly. the use was merely descriptive.Well I agree that PC may go too far in some cases but I do not agree that 'sexual intercourse' always means 'heterosexual sexual intercourse'. It could refer to 'homosexual sexual intercourse' depending on the context. And not sure the expression 'sexual intercourse' is linked to procreation. The heterosexual sexual intercourse act certainly is. But the non specific expression?? In the same way that 'anal intercourse' doesn't have to be exclusively gay. Take a look at a straight porn web site The point is that in the context of referring to FM during that period there was no need to put 'gay' before sex. We all know that, being a gay man, the sex he would be having was 'gay'. By highlighting it it almost sounds as if that makes his promiscuity worse than if he was shagging women. |
| mike hunt 27.01.2017 09:55 |
The party scene did take something out of his creativity. Maybe early on he was able too party and get away with it, I like 7 of his 8 songs on Jazz and The Game, but like everything it catches up to you. Later on when he stopped Partying he was back again, and trying new things on Barcelona. |
| MercurialFreddie 27.01.2017 12:01 |
Is it true what Mack has said regarding Hot Space.... that if they waited a few months, better produce the album then it's reception would be really that different ? |
| mike hunt 27.01.2017 12:28 |
Yea, would of been better. Listen to the live versions of these songs. Much better than the studio. |
| dysan 28.01.2017 00:50 |
It's funny - if you actually reverse the tracklisting of Hot Space from Under Pressure to Staying Power you have a decent 80s rock album with some experimental stuff tucked on side 2. |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 10:39 |
splicksplack wrote: The point is that in the context of referring to FM during that period there was no need to put 'gay' before sex. We all know that, being a gay man, the sex he would be having was 'gay'. By highlighting it it almost sounds as if that makes his promiscuity worse than if he was shagging women.Bingo. And the normalizing of that kind position is precisely what fuels homophobia - which is why it's a bit alarming to see it come from people who don't seem to be homophobes. |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 10:40 |
mike hunt wrote: The party scene did take something out of his creativity. Maybe early on he was able too party and get away with it, I like 7 of his 8 songs on Jazz and The Game, but like everything it catches up to you. Later on when he stopped Partying he was back again, and trying new things on Barcelona.Totally. But in that period he did write It's A Hard Life and Princes Of The Universe - both excellent tracks, and the latter is still very well known from the Highlander TV show. |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 10:42 |
dysan wrote: It's funny - if you actually reverse the tracklisting of Hot Space from Under Pressure to Staying Power you have a decent 80s rock album with some experimental stuff tucked on side 2.Indeed. Had they even just flipped sides A and B, things may have been much different. Most people probably didn't even get to side B. Think Bowie's Heroes and Low - had the sides been reversed, there's no way those albums would've been half as successful. But hindsight is 20/20, of course. |
| 12yrslouetta 28.01.2017 10:53 |
Ive always thought that the reason Queen stopped being successful in America was time. Theyd been relatively successful for 8 or so years, and sometimes youve just run the course. Not many artists stay successful and relevant for that long. Most bands dont stay together that long. Sure they would never sell the amount that they had done previously but they would have done ok. More than OK in fact. And Queen were a worldwide band anyway, they sold in a lot of countries. |
| mike hunt 28.01.2017 15:26 |
They were huge outside of the US in the 80's. That's why so many comments are positive regarding The Works And Magic On social media like Facebook. I think they could have prolonged their success in America if they did things differently. Funny that I think Queen are more popular today than they were in the mid 80's. Their music is played on the radio all the time, including non hits like Dragon Attack. They get a lot more respect from music fans. |