| brians wig 21.01.2017 15:12 |
Last year I acquired the sub-master VHS tape of this concert from the filmer. He thinks he shot on Hi-8 and then transferred to VHS. Those Hi-8 tapes no longer exist, so the VHS is now effectively the Master tape. I played it back through 4 different VHS machines to find the best output, both in terms of video and audio. A Time Base Corrector was used to stabilise the picture and the colours. All 4 of those machines had recently been maintained by a friend who is still in the business of repairing video equipment, so I believe this is the best we are going to achieve from the tape. The machine which produced the best output is a Phillips SVHS VR1000. Sadly, the stereo audio playback on all 4 machines has a bit of crackle on one of the channels at times: a typical issue with nicam VHS machines: if the record machine is slightly out of whack when it records the signal, other machines can have difficulty syncing in. I believe this may have been the case with the machine that created the VHS tape. I've authored the capture to DVD with full menu and the iso file can be found at the link below. I have no idea how many times mega will allow it to be downloaded, so if someone can create a torrent of it, that would be great. I'm afraid I can't create torrents for some reason these days. link |
| Chief Mouse 21.01.2017 15:28 |
Cheers, Dave! |
| Barry Durex 21.01.2017 17:15 |
Very nice, thank you. |
| cmi 21.01.2017 21:52 |
Thanks a lot! That's really great. |
| Rami 22.01.2017 01:45 |
Thank you very much indeed! |
| The Real Wizard 22.01.2017 02:02 |
This is an excellent upgrade, but still flawed - the audio is distorted, and the video isn't encoded too well, as the picture is very blocky. Each DVD shouldn't be more than 60 minutes, as quality is compromised as soon as you go beyond that. Tragic that the master is gone and the next best copy has distorted audio. What in the world was he thinking when he set the levels !? Still, thanks for posting this - this is great to have. Certainly better than what has circulated before. But if you could encode the VHS to two DVDs in best quality, I could sync audio to it - I have the audio from this source in just about as good quality without the distortion. Then we'll have the definitive version - especially if we leave it to someone like Nitroboy to include the four official tracks in an alternate audio track in an MKV file. |
| brians wig 22.01.2017 04:32 |
No problem Bob. There's a reason it's all one disc and this wasn't the version I'd planned to share on QZ, but the resurgence of the other thread prompted me to let folks know I had the master and at least upload something. Given some time (because I have other priority's at the moment), I'll upload a better encode for people to play with. |
| dave76 22.01.2017 05:11 |
Nice upload Dave. Thank you. This would have been a nice addition to his boxset over 3 years ago. |
| people on streets 22.01.2017 05:50 |
brians wig wrote: No problem Bob. There's a reason it's all one disc and this wasn't the version I'd planned to share on QZ, but the resurgence of the other thread prompted me to let folks know I had the master and at least upload something. Given some time (because I have other priority's at the moment), I'll upload a better encode for people to play with.Like you said in your post before: this is not the master. This is a first generation copy. |
| Nitroboy 22.01.2017 07:28 |
The Real Wizard wrote: This is an excellent upgrade, but still flawed - the audio is distorted, and the video isn't encoded too well, as the picture is very blocky. Each DVD shouldn't be more than 60 minutes, as quality is compromised as soon as you go beyond that. Tragic that the master is gone and the next best copy has distorted audio. What in the world was he thinking when he set the levels !? Still, thanks for posting this - this is great to have. Certainly better than what has circulated before. But if you could encode the VHS to two DVDs in best quality, I could sync audio to it - I have the audio from this source in just about as good quality without the distortion. Then we'll have the definitive version - especially if we leave it to someone like Nitroboy to include the four official tracks in an alternate audio track in an MKV file. Indeed. 2 standard DVDs, or 1 8.5GB DVD. OR even better: A direct capture to a PC in DV-AVI mode (about 25Mbps for video) :P And? Stuff from this show has been released officially? (I'm not that familiar with Roger's solo stuff, what's available etc.) |
| cmi 22.01.2017 10:42 |
^ 4 tracks on 'Happiness' single / 2 tracks from them on 'The Lot'. |
| brians wig 22.01.2017 10:56 |
Nitroboy wrote: Indeed. 2 standard DVDs, or 1 8.5GB DVD. OR even better: A direct capture to a PC in DV-AVI mode (about 25Mbps for video) :PWell I do capture in DV AVI mode and always keep the unedited captures. If someone has an alternate, lossless, better audio source, they want to share with me, I can drop it on the timeline and do a better encode. The only difference is it will be a file to playback rather than an authored DVD. |
| Nickman 22.01.2017 12:14 |
Torrent someone, please :) |
| The Real Wizard 22.01.2017 13:02 |
brians wig wrote: No problem Bob. There's a reason it's all one disc and this wasn't the version I'd planned to share on QZ, but the resurgence of the other thread prompted me to let folks know I had the master and at least upload something. Given some time (because I have other priority's at the moment), I'll upload a better encode for people to play with.Excellent :-) |
| gioscana 22.01.2017 16:17 |
Thanks ! ! ! |
| pmatsynot 23.01.2017 06:32 |
Any chance of a torrent please,thanks in advance |
| brians wig 23.01.2017 08:29 |
I can't help with a torrent, sorry. I've not been able to do a successful one for years. No idea why. I can use torrenting to get a file, but not share one :( |
| people on streets 23.01.2017 12:04 |
brians wig wrote:And another difference is of course the quality!Nitroboy wrote: Indeed. 2 standard DVDs, or 1 8.5GB DVD. OR even better: A direct capture to a PC in DV-AVI mode (about 25Mbps for video) :PWell I do capture in DV AVI mode and always keep the unedited captures. If someone has an alternate, lossless, better audio source, they want to share with me, I can drop it on the timeline and do a better encode. The only difference is it will be a file to playback rather than an authored DVD. DV AVI capture is far superior! Also, if you make an MKV out of it (with MKVmerge more info here: link you preserve quality of both the audio and video files AND you can make a title track just like you'd have with a dvd. No fancy menu though, but who cares. In other words: capture in the best possible quality, merge it with best possible audio to an MKV and make track splits. IMHO that's the way to do it in 2017. |
| The Real Wizard 23.01.2017 13:40 |
people on streets wrote: And another difference is of course the quality! DV AVI capture is far superior! Also, if you make an MKV out of it (with MKVmerge more info here: link you preserve quality of both the audio and video files AND you can make a title track just like you'd have with a dvd. No fancy menu though, but who cares. In other words: capture in the best possible quality, merge it with best possible audio to an MKV and make track splits. IMHO that's the way to do it in 2017.Yup, you're right. |
| brians wig 23.01.2017 14:08 |
people on streets wrote: And another difference is of course the quality! DV AVI capture is far superior! Also, if you make an MKV out of it (with MKVmerge more info here: link you preserve quality of both the audio and video files AND you can make a title track just like you'd have with a dvd. No fancy menu though, but who cares. In other words: capture in the best possible quality, merge it with best possible audio to an MKV and make track splits. IMHO that's the way to do it in 2017.The only negative to that is that some people like to watch videos on something called a "TV set", and no media player I've ever had (or my current smart TV) will playback DV AVI files. They don't even play back the new (ish) H.265 format which keeps the interlacing and is smaller file sizes than H.264. Yes. I personally play back files from a hard drive rather than physical media these days, so I can go with that. As I said though, the DVD was made for a purpose and as such was an "easy" first share here. BUT, there have been some positives to come out of this which will make sure that the next upload will be more definitive :) |
| Barry Durex 23.01.2017 15:10 |
The DVD looks fine. The audio could be a bit better though. If Real Wizard can sync his better audio that would be cool. Is it lossless audio? |
| brians wig 23.01.2017 16:23 |
I've chatted with that Wizard bloke and his audio is mono. He says he's never heard it in stereo before, so I wonder if it's a case of the automatic record levels on the camcorder distorted the stereo sound but left the mono sound at a lower volume (assuming HI-8 even had stereo and mono soundtrack options) and the subsequent VHS sub master used for dubbing the multitudes of copies that were distributed only copied the mono track? The audio on the DV AVI capture IS lossless. The audio on the DVD I made is ac3 as I always prioritise video bitrate above audio. Kurgan's audio will be lossless so if his is better than 'my' stereo audio, we can use that if Wizards audio isn't lossless. Either way, a collaboration is planned to produce a definitive version! |
| The Real Wizard 23.01.2017 16:35 |
Barry Durex wrote: The DVD looks fine. The audio could be a bit better though. If Real Wizard can sync his better audio that would be cool. Is it lossless audio?Yup. So, cool - we have a plan. Either my audio or Kurgan's. Can I hear a sample of that one? |
| Barry Durex 24.01.2017 04:08 |
Perhaps the 'normal' audio track on the VHS tape brians wig used does not have the distortion? That would also be lossless, but probably mono. Having said that I think there were some VHS machines that were capable or recording in linear stereo as well as HI FI, in which case the normal track could also be stereo. Of course the player used now would also have to be capable of playing linear stereo. |
| last-horizon 42265 24.01.2017 09:13 |
Dear David, This is very cool. HUGE thanks! Has the original taper disclose the story behind IILWMC being cut? Battery or tape switch perhaps? It's curious that a excerpt of it appears on the video recordings but were cut off the audio bootlegs. I have created a merged definitive audio version myself including that one but I doubt that it will beat Kurgan or Bob versions. |
| The Real Wizard 24.01.2017 14:39 |
last-horizon 42265 wrote: I have created a merged definitive audio version myself including that one but I doubt that it will beat Kurgan or Bob versions.Feel free to post a sample so we can compare ! |
| brians wig 24.01.2017 16:13 |
Barry Durex wrote: Perhaps the 'normal' audio track on the VHS tape brians wig used does not have the distortion? That would also be lossless, but probably mono. Having said that I think there were some VHS machines that were capable or recording in linear stereo as well as HI FI, in which case the normal track could also be stereo. Of course the player used now would also have to be capable of playing linear stereo.Yeah. The only downside is I gave the taper his tape back last year along with the "rush" DVD so he at least had "something", thereby giving me time to do a better encode on everything! As I said, the only reason I uploaded it here before a better version was ready is because the old thread got resurrected. The good news is the better copy will get done sooner now as someone else is taking it off my hands. |
| brians wig 24.01.2017 16:15 |
last-horizon 42265 wrote: Dear David, This is very cool. HUGE thanks! Has the original taper disclose the story behind IILWMC being cut? Battery or tape switch perhaps? It's curious that a excerpt of it appears on the video recordings but were cut off the audio bootlegs. I have created a merged definitive audio version myself including that one but I doubt that it will beat Kurgan or Bob versions.Quite simply he got caught! I faded the show out literally a frame before the camera goes wild with movement and the audio is drowned out by rustling, clicking etc as the camera is hidden and then shut down. |
| last-horizon 42265 25.01.2017 07:17 |
Bob, I will do my best to up a sample of it later today. Lots of things going on but I would love to contribute to this project, althought I am pretty certain that I don't have anything new to bring to the table. Dave, how frustrating is to know that some little security guy has erased from the future what it could have been a complete video recording of the first ever RT proper solo gig (Gosport 94, a couple of weeks before, had been a festival). Looks like during this concert IILWMC was at a very late stage of the set list just like during the first japanese gig and that later was moved to its average. It's uncertain if Twist & Shout closed the show, too. |
| brians wig 25.01.2017 09:03 |
last-horizon 42265 wrote: Dave, how frustrating is to know that some little security guy has erased from the future what it could have been a complete video recording of the first ever RT proper solo gig (Gosport 94, a couple of weeks before, had been a festival). .At least we got what we got. Frustation? You should try filming a concert where where security are omnipresent and I either daren't film or I have to point and hope for the stage and for it to be in focus. I've lost so many because of that. |
| last-horizon 42265 25.01.2017 09:12 |
brians wig wrote:I completely agree. Frustration probably was not the most accurate term, I mean what a shame that it couldn't be recorded in full but of course that it's great that we have most of the concert.last-horizon 42265 wrote: Dave, how frustrating is to know that some little security guy has erased from the future what it could have been a complete video recording of the first ever RT proper solo gig (Gosport 94, a couple of weeks before, had been a festival). .At least we got what we got. Frustation? You should try filming a concert where where security are omnipresent and I either daren't film or I have to point and hope for the stage and for it to be in focus. I've lost so many because of that. I know how you feel. I have recorded myself nearly 75 shows (some on audio, some on video) and it's true that apart from paying attention to the show itself, you must be very careful of the security guards. I have been caught twice out of 75 shows. |
| The Real Wizard 25.01.2017 11:32 |
last-horizon 42265 wrote: I have been caught twice out of 75 shows.And you still lived to tell the tale ;) That's actually a pretty good ratio ! |
| last-horizon 42265 25.01.2017 12:16 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Yup. First time (theater, very private promotional show who I could access to thanks to a crew member) I was told to shut the camera down, but I just pointed it to the floor pretending that I was turning it off, but instead I recorded the audio at least. Second time, ten years later, I was kicked off the venue (stadium), but I entered back on the next gate and the recorder never stopped so the recording turned out to be almost 100% fluent. :-)last-horizon 42265 wrote: I have been caught twice out of 75 shows.And you still lived to tell the tale ;) That's actually a pretty good ratio ! |
| last-horizon 42265 25.01.2017 15:33 |
Ok, here's my sample. Nothing out of this world, I told you: link |
| brians wig 25.01.2017 16:27 |
75 shows! That's incredible! YOU are deserving of our praise, regardless of the artist, for services to music fans everywhere!!!! :) |
| The Real Wizard 26.01.2017 01:45 |
last-horizon 42265 wrote: Ok, here's my sample. Nothing out of this world, I told you: linkActually, it's better than what I have ! So if David's DVD is what it is, then I think you have the best audio source - unless Kurgan's beats yours. At the end of the day, to just have this video in best possible quality synced to the four officially released songs would make me happy enough. But it'd be nice to have the whole thing, of course. |
| Barry Durex 26.01.2017 11:15 |
Can we hear a sample of your copy as well RW? I take it it comes from a VHS tape you have as you say it's also lossless. I personally would like a complete audio transfer from that rather than multi sources, so please upload it. |
| tassilo 28.01.2017 08:52 |
Thanks a lot. |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 10:26 |
Barry Durex wrote: Can we hear a sample of your copy as well RW? I take it it comes from a VHS tape you have as you say it's also lossless. I personally would like a complete audio transfer from that rather than multi sources, so please upload it.I got it on CDR ages ago. But alas, I just checked it and it's actually lossy (it was mp3s burned to a CD back in the 90s). And it doesn't sound as good as last-horizon's. |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 10:31 |
You can hear the digital noise clear as day - bad mp3 encoding. |
| Barry Durex 28.01.2017 11:06 |
I think brians wig needs to borrow the vhs tape again! |
| The Real Wizard 28.01.2017 14:38 |
Barry Durex wrote: I think brians wig needs to borrow the vhs tape again!I approve of this message. |
| brians wig 29.01.2017 04:08 |
Barry Durex wrote: I think brians wig needs to borrow the vhs tape again!Won't be happening. |
| Barry Durex 29.01.2017 06:01 |
The Real Wizard wrote: You can hear the digital noise clear as day - bad mp3 encoding.Why did you convert your CDR sample to mp3 before uploading? There's another (edited) VHS rip here, probably ac3 audio but might be worth checking out. link |
| Fmarton 30.01.2017 10:23 |
Thank you very much! |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2017 02:10 |
Barry Durex wrote: Why did you convert your CDR sample to mp3 before uploading?My memory was playing tricks on me. All I actually have *is* the mp3s. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2017 02:23 |
Barry Durex wrote: There's another (edited) VHS rip here, probably ac3 audio but might be worth checking out. linkCool, I'll give this a try. It seems to be the most complete version - it has the piece of IILWMC at the end. |
| Barry Durex 31.01.2017 02:33 |
Quite the contrary, several songs are cut towards the end due to some sort of corruption in the vob files. Consequently the ripped mpeg audio is only about 80 minutes in duration. After checking the audio quality, it seems to be on a par with the PBB share here --- https://domn3f6.1fichier.com/en/ Also, there seems to be a slight variation in speed between the PBB share and brian wigs share. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2017 14:09 |
Barry Durex wrote: Quite the contrary, several songs are cut towards the end due to some sort of corruption in the vob files. Consequently the ripped mpeg audio is only about 80 minutes in duration. After checking the audio quality, it seems to be on a par with the PBB share here --- https://domn3f6.1fichier.com/en/ Also, there seems to be a slight variation in speed between the PBB share and brian wigs share.Frustrating that there's just no definitive version. Is the last vob file in good shape, at least? I've yet to see IILWMC. That could easily be used for a compilation if it's intact. |
| Barry Durex 31.01.2017 15:44 |
The taper was caught at that point. There is merely a few more seconds of audio where he pleads his innocence! |
| Barry Durex 30.03.2017 08:48 |
Complete IILWMC (different source) |