| The Real Wizard 21.07.2016 12:33 |
link I know it's the Daily Mail (they couldn't even spell Dave's last name right in one spot), but this is a really interesting couple of quotes: "Not even the band knew at first, and his family didn’t know." "Raising money for AIDS charities is close to Clark’s heart. Even before he knew of Freddie’s status, he organised a benefit performance of his musical Time at London’s Dominion Theatre with Cliff Richard, the show’s star, and Freddie performing on stage together." If this is all true, this means Dave didn't know in April 1988 - which would mean that Freddie didn't tell the band by The Miracle sessions, which were already underway. For those of us who are interested in these timelines, I'd say this is a pretty important little tidbit. I'm not into the morbid curiosity thing - I'm into what band morale must have been like during those times. And it looks like The Miracle was just another album for the band, and perhaps they aren't lying through their teeth during that interview with Mike Read in 1989. Maybe it wasn't until the Innuendo sessions that they finally had the chat. Thoughts? |
| cmsdrums 21.07.2016 16:05 |
Nice spot. The piece doesn't say when the evening that Freddie told him took place, but it was presumably not too late i nthe chain of events as he says there were no obvious signs of the illness. It could be lazy made up and presumptive journalism when it says that Clark didn't know by the time of the Time benefit in 1988, but assuming that's right then we know he had told Montserrat Caballe by at least October '88 (could be as early as the Barcelona sessions in 87) as she has said in interviews she could see how brave Freddie was onstage when they performed at La Nit festival in Oct '88), so perhaps he told Clark (& Mike Moran?) and the Queen guys around that same time, so after the TIME gala in April, but before La Nit in October? Even if Freddie hadn't told the band by the time they started recording The Miracle, my guess (and it's only that), is that they would have known by the time the album was released as they would have had discussions about booking tour dates well before that point. |
| musicland munich 21.07.2016 23:24 |
The Real Wizard wrote: I'm into what band morale must have been like during those times. And it looks like The Miracle was just another album for the band, and perhaps they aren't lying through their teeth during that interview with Mike Read in 1989. Maybe it wasn't until the Innuendo sessions that they finally had the chat.MOJO Interview with Brian May 1999 ...the three other band members were confronted with the news that Freddie Mercury had AIDS. "We discovered about Freddie in 1987 or '88: we were in Switzerland. We'd all known that something wasn't right, but that really did bring us together, knowing that he was on borrowed time. There was nowhere to run, so we just went on and did what we could. He was getting tragically frail towards the end." in full link I'll add a few things later,but that's all I 've time for right noiw. |
| The Real Wizard 22.07.2016 01:27 |
Great responses, guys. So it looks like it was 1988. That makes the most sense. |
| cmsdrums 22.07.2016 04:08 |
Jsut to counter my earlier comments, there's an Interesting piece here suggesting 1991 could be a possible timeline for when the band knew the worst: link The key stands outs are the following quotes from interviews which seem to indicate from Brian's mouth that Freddie only told the band "a few months" before he died; is this right? perhaps it is though, and whilst they clearly knew he was seriously ill during the 'Innuendo' sessions, it was unspoken because Freddie hadn't formally told them or discussed it? Brian May told Rock Power magazine, “We didn’t know actually what was wrong for a very long time. We never talked about it and it was a sort of unwritten law that we didn’t, because Freddie didn’t want to. He just told us that he didn’t feel up to doing tours, and that’s as far as it went. Gradually, I suppose in the last year and a bit, it became obvious what the problem was, or at least fairly obvious – we still didn’t know for sure. He’s a very private person, Freddie.” Brian May told Rock Power magazine that, a few months before his passing, Mercury did “sit down and talk to us about it, and from that point on it was openly talked about among us. But we still didn’t mention a word to anyone, not even our families, which is very difficult. When your friends look you in the eye and say, ‘What’s wrong?,’ and you say, ‘Nothing,’ it’s very hard. So it was a big strain; it did something awful to our brains for a while.” |
| Costa86 22.07.2016 05:48 |
Brian has definitely said that at one point he sat them down and told them "you know what I have", or something to that effect, and that he didn't want it mentioned again and just wanted to get on with it. I always assumed it must have been around 1988/89. I think it's pretty certain that he had told them by the time they were making The Miracle. |
| JomaDuckSoup 22.07.2016 08:51 |
One thing always struck me: By the time The Miracle was released, statements were made, that Freddie didn't want to go on tour "I don't feel like running around in leotards anymore". While the other 3 stated, that they'd love to go on tour, but it was Freddie who did not. They would not say that if they had known about Freddie's illness. |
| The Real Wizard 22.07.2016 17:39 |
JomaDuckSoup wrote: One thing always struck me: By the time The Miracle was released, statements were made, that Freddie didn't want to go on tour "I don't feel like running around in leotards anymore". While the other 3 stated, that they'd love to go on tour, but it was Freddie who did not. They would not say that if they had known about Freddie's illness.That could've been them lying to protect him already by that point. No doubt they got creative about it. |
| Costa86 22.07.2016 18:25 |
I find it hard to believe the band were told any later than 1989. You don't work with people so closely, with your tremendous physical decline in full view, without saying anything. The year he started to look really ill was 1989, when he grew the beard to hide the KS. He had lost weight by late 1988, but for most of 1988 and for all of 1987 he looked pretty good. In fact, in 1987 he looked fuller than in 1986 (which has been speculated to be caused by the drugs he was taking) |
| Sebastian 22.07.2016 20:00 |
'Miracle' sessions lasted about fourteen months. Fred could've easily told them at some point *during* those fourteen months. |
| Sebastian 22.07.2016 20:00 |
. |
| musicland munich 22.07.2016 23:07 |
As you can imagine...I had some different shit on my plate the last hours ;) But anyway... At least John Deacon had a good idea in 1987 that something is wrong. He asked Jim Hutton in Ibiza about Freddie's (KS) Stains... Jims answer ( Sun Stains) !!! Quite sure that John was smelling the BS cause he was on Tour with Fred for about 15 years at that point. And one big factor when people talk about Freddie's AIDS is that we don't know if they seperate HIV and AIDS properly. So maybe the Band was in knowledge that something could happen to Freddie ( Roger's comment that Freddie was unsure for The Magic Tour/ TATDOOL-Doc) but at that point it wasn't sure. The doctors simply didn't know at that time that a HIV status will turn into AIDS in about 99 Percent. I 'didn't have the correct numbers on hand, so this is just an example. In the beginning of HIV / AIDS in the early 80's, Doctors belived that maybe 30 Percent of HIV Patients will develop full blown AIDS. At the end of the 80's numbers were rising dramaticlly . |
| Biggus Dickus 23.07.2016 04:42 |
Interesting topic. I browsed through Hutton's book. In his book Jim is talking about May 1989. Direct quote: "Around the same time the same group (this being the band and their partners) met up for a quiet supper near the studio in a restaurant called the Bavaria. That was the night Freddie admitted to the band that he was not well." He then goes explaining how somebody was complaining about having a cold and Freddie then raised his leg to the table to show an open wound on the side of his calf. Quote continues: "I think the band had all been well aware that Freddie was seriously ill, and his leg that night was the confirmation they had all been expecting." |
| mooghead 23.07.2016 15:21 |
Can you imagine what it must be like being Dave Clark right now? Dining out on a song from nearly 50 years ago... poor fucker.... |
| cmsdrums 23.07.2016 18:05 |
mooghead wrote: Can you imagine what it must be like being Dave Clark right now? Dining out on a song from nearly 50 years ago... poor fucker....I'd happily swap with him....he's a multi millionaire, and one of the very first to own the rights to his own material and handles it very well. |
| Sebastian 26.07.2016 11:49 |
Going back to the original post:
The Real Wizard wrote: "Not even the band knew at first, and his family didn’t know."Now ... how on earth did Dave know whether Fred had told the band and his family or not? Unless Fred explicitly told him, 'hey, by the way, if anyone asks a quarter of a century for now, those three ol' farts don't know and neither do mum and dad. As for my lil' sis, haven't told her either,' there's no way David could've known whether the rest knew or not. Especially considering Fred didn't want to bring too much attention to it anyway. Far as it's been reported, his way of telling people was 'you know what's going on, let's not discuss it.' Maybe they all knew but they didn't know the rest knew... telling someone something serious doesn't necessarily imply telling them who else knows and doesn't know. |
| Bohardy 26.07.2016 15:23 |
Sebastian wrote: Going back to the original post:Not that I have any opinions one way or the other, but it's entirely possible, and at least fairly plausible, that Fred could have said to Dave "I've not told the band or my family yet, so please keep this to yourself for the time-being. Only my closest friends know right now".The Real Wizard wrote: "Not even the band knew at first, and his family didn’t know."Now ... how on earth did Dave know whether Fred had told the band and his family or not? Unless Fred explicitly told him, 'hey, by the way, if anyone asks a quarter of a century for now, those three ol' farts don't know and neither do mum and dad. As for my lil' sis, haven't told her either,' there's no way David could've known whether the rest knew or not. Especially considering Fred didn't want to bring too much attention to it anyway. Far as it's been reported, his way of telling people was 'you know what's going on, let's not discuss it.' Maybe they all knew but they didn't know the rest knew... telling someone something serious doesn't necessarily imply telling them who else knows and doesn't know. I can easily see why Fred would initially feel more comfortable telling just his close friends his awful news, and then later colleagues and family (that he was not especially close to, as far as we're aware). |
| Costa86 26.07.2016 16:00 |
LOL Sebastian And you are absolutely right. |
| Sebastian 26.07.2016 16:16 |
Bohardy wrote: Not that I have any opinions one way or the other, but it's entirely possible, and at least fairly plausible, that Fred could have said to Dave "I've not told the band or my family yet, so please keep this to yourself for the time-being. Only my closest friends know right now".I'm no shrink and I never met Fred but it makes a lot more sense, considering what's been revealed, that he kept his outgoing comments to a bare minimum. The man who said 'you know what's happening, we won't mention it again' is more likely not to offer any additional information, let alone info involving other people. I'd assume that for any of these cases, especially if Dave was a close friend, 'keep this to yourself' is the default setting anyway. And before anyone says 'oh, you think you know everything' and shite like that ... this is just a theory. I'm entitled to come up with a hypothesis based on the available info, as is anyone else. |
| splicksplack 27.07.2016 04:13 |
For what it's worth, a company I was working for in the 80's were involved (in a minor way) with the artwork for The Miracle. We were using the original pics that made up the composite 'head' on the cover. Fred's pic looked healthy and a bit fat faced (and spotty!). I think that was spring/summer '88. I'd imagine he could have kept the news from them without suspicion at that point |
| JomaDuckSoup 27.07.2016 12:07 |
Not knowing Freddie - I just don't believe that he is the kind of putting his foot on the table. Or even showing his wounds when not even wanting people to talk about his illness. |
| Sebastian 27.07.2016 14:55 |
People can behave uncharacteristically from time to time, and that might very well have been a reason for them to have remembered that incident, precisely because it was not like him to do that. Having said that, those stories often get blown up or enhanced or altered. We'll never ever know what happened exactly, unless there's some sort of footage (which makes a far more reliable witness than a human witness). |
| AlbaNo1 27.07.2016 17:37 |
mooghead wrote: Can you imagine what it must be like being Dave Clark right now? Dining out on a song from nearly 50 years ago... poor fucker....And dining out on knowing Freddie Mercury. It seems he was a good friend but this " I knew before the band" seems to emerge every couple of years |
| Sebastian 28.07.2016 04:10 |
Maybe Fred's exact instructions were: 'I really don't want you to tell the band, but I'm fine with you flaunting that you knew before them.' Seems legit. |
| niall 29.07.2016 11:50 |
LOL Dave Clark also has a different account of who was with Freddie (ie only Dave Clark) when Freddie died. Both Phoebe and Jim Hutton both tell the same story that they asked Clark to leave the room while they changed Freddie's pants. Clark has also been quoted as saying he went downstairs to tell Phoebe and Joe that Freddie had died and that he called Freddie's parents. I'm not inclined to believe Dave Clark. Jim Hutton expressed hurt at Clark's version of the story and said Clark sent him a card by way of apology saying, 'you were there'. |
| Stelios 31.07.2016 10:03 |
JomaDuckSoup wrote: Not knowing Freddie - I just don't believe that he is the kind of putting his foot on the table. Or even showing his wounds when not even wanting people to talk about his illness.No this one is actually true. Its on a documentary told by Brian. Well he didnt put his foot on the table but Brian made some remarks about having a cold and Freddie was like ...'you know what a real problem is and looks like?" and showed the scar. Brian actually told that story to emphasise how sensitive Freddie was not to hurt or offened someone, because he (Brian) reacted with a look of horror to the scar and Freddie apologised for catching him off guard and upsetting him. |
| k-m 31.07.2016 11:03 |
I have a recent Uncut magazine in front of me (2015 issue 11), it's entirely about Queen and features the following statements from Roger and Brian respectively, both discussing The Miracle album. RT: We knew by then that Freddie was ill. We weren't doing any live work after '86. We got to the end of the "Magic" tour and that was it. BM: Freddie knew he was in serious trouble. But he kept it to himself at first. He ended up telling us quite a long way into the recording sessions. He said: "You probably figured out what's going on. I don't want to talk about it. Let's carry on life as normal, and concentrate on the music." I suspect the only reason he told us was because it was beginning to show, physically. |
| Biggus Dickus 31.07.2016 13:11 |
Stelios wrote:JomaDuckSoup wrote: Not knowing Freddie - I just don't believe that he is the kind of putting his foot on the table. Or even showing his wounds when not even wanting people to talk about his illness.No this one is actually true. Its on a documentary told by Brian. Well he didnt put his foot on the table but Brian made some remarks about having a cold and Freddie was like ...'you know what a real problem is and looks like?" and showed the scar. Brian actually told that story to emphasise how sensitive Freddie was not to hurt or offened someone, because he (Brian) reacted with a look of horror to the scar and Freddie apologised for catching him off guard and upsetting him. Also confirmed by Jim Hutton in his book. |
| Penetration_Guru 04.08.2016 16:28 |
So we're treating Hutton's book as gospel now, are we? Times have changed..... Nobody is a reliable witness at this point, so the truth is probably somewhere in between - which as Sebastian has already said is likely to be the second half of '88 |
| Biggus Dickus 05.08.2016 03:40 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: So we're treating Hutton's book as gospel now, are we? Times have changed..... Nobody is a reliable witness at this point, so the truth is probably somewhere in between - which as Sebastian has already said is likely to be the second half of '88 Did I describe it as gospel? Nope. I'm only saying the story has more validity if it has been confirmed by more than one source. |