QueenZone discussion #1455456

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: "anarchists and marxists" As soon as you read that, you know you can stop reading. Extremism begets extremism, violence begets violence. The USA is still suffering from the same problems as in the '50s/'60s, and those were the same problems as under Reconstruction (1865-1877) - the Civil War is still not completely over, and I don't see it ending anytime soon. Despite the fact that equality under the law is mostly a legal fact now (there are still many loopholes that allow for discrimination), REAL equality is not. Racism is still a tool used by the powererful to get the support of poor whites against their own interests - the Donald Trump campaign is illustrating that, and it is not markedly different from the politics of the Redeemer Democrats, wealthy ex-confederates who represented the interests of the rich to the detriment of the poor (both black and white), during the late Reconstruction era. During the Obama-presidency, much racist sentiment that was hidden from view during most of the '80s, '90s and '00s resurfaced in full view - white supremacists have become more visible in politics once more, as they were until the late '60s and early '70s The Trump-campaign is overtly race-baiting, both anti-black, anti-Islamic and now even anti-semitic (and I'm not just referring to the star-of-David tweet, but also to even more disgusting things like Trump's remark to Jewish Republicans that "most of you probably don't like me because I don't want your money"). Violence is exploding both ways in a way that is not unlike the Long Hot Summers, and unless the root causes are addressed, it will not be solved but only temporarily supressed. Cheap rhetoric, like the quote from brenski I mentioned above, will only cause more harm, because it deflects attention from real problems towards easy strawmen (like all the current political demagoguery, from Geert Wilders and Marine LePen to Nigel Farage and the Brexit). Populism, nationalism, demagoguery, conspiracy theories - these are a threat to everyone.

Panchgani wrote:

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: "anarchists and marxists" As soon as you read that, you know you can stop reading. Extremism begets extremism, violence begets violence. The USA is still suffering from the same problems as in the '50s/'60s, and those were the same problems as under Reconstruction (1865-1877) - the Civil War is still not completely over, and I don't see it ending anytime soon. Despite the fact that equality under the law is mostly a legal fact now (there are still many loopholes that allow for discrimination), REAL equality is not. Racism is still a tool used by the powererful to get the support of poor whites against their own interests - the Donald Trump campaign is illustrating that, and it is not markedly different from the politics of the Redeemer Democrats, wealthy ex-confederates who represented the interests of the rich to the detriment of the poor (both black and white), during the late Reconstruction era. During the Obama-presidency, much racist sentiment that was hidden from view during most of the '80s, '90s and '00s resurfaced in full view - white supremacists have become more visible in politics once more, as they were until the late '60s and early '70s The Trump-campaign is overtly race-baiting, both anti-black, anti-Islamic and now even anti-semitic (and I'm not just referring to the star-of-David tweet, but also to even more disgusting things like Trump's remark to Jewish Republicans that "most of you probably don't like me because I don't want your money"). Violence is exploding both ways in a way that is not unlike the Long Hot Summers, and unless the root causes are addressed, it will not be solved but only temporarily supressed. Cheap rhetoric, like the quote from brenski I mentioned above, will only cause more harm, because it deflects attention from real problems towards easy strawmen (like all the current political demagoguery, from Geert Wilders and Marine LePen to Nigel Farage and the Brexit). Populism, nationalism, demagoguery, conspiracy theories - these are a threat to everyone.

Thanks for the drivel Dr Quinn.

Panchgani wrote: "get your head out of your textbooks and spend some time in the real world" But he has a government job ... Doesn't that count as the real world? LOL

brENsKi wrote: both sides are as bad as each other it no longer matters what the origins or noble objectives of a cause now hijacked by anarchists and marxists. it's all fucked in the head now. link

Costa86 wrote: Alex Jones is a delusional, manipulative, cretin, who doubles as a snake oil salesman. He actually peddles products which are supposed to detoxify you etc. on his YouTube shows (which seem to be updated a million times a day). He's beyond being a conspiracy theorist - he deliberately agitates and misinforms, under the guise of providing "the truth".

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Costa86 wrote: Alex Jones is a delusional, manipulative, cretin, who doubles as a snake oil salesman. He actually peddles products which are supposed to detoxify you etc. on his YouTube shows (which seem to be updated a million times a day). He's beyond being a conspiracy theorist - he deliberately agitates and misinforms, under the guise of providing "the truth".

I couldn't agree more. You might as well quote The Onion as a truthful information source over Info Wars.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:How typical. Slurs and ad-hominem attacks from Brenski and Panchgani, sprinkled with some conspiracy theories and half a dozen strawman fallacies where Brenski puts words in my mouth, but conveniently ignores everything I wrote.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:And still, as in the Brexit discussion which followed a similar course, Brenski insists he represents "the real world", and everything that doesn't conform to his views is dismissed off-hand. How is it possible to have a reasonable discussion when this is the response given to anyone who doesn't unconditionally agree with your views, Brenski?

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:You write "you know what Casper? you could also be wrong you know". But Brenski - do you see the irony in that statement? Because YOU refuse to accept that you could be wrong about anything, launching into the most hostile verbal attacks when challenged on any point, by anyone.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: You no longer listen to arguments, your mind is made up, and anyone who does not agree with you 100% is wrong, "hypocritical", "moronic", "marxist", "anarchist". I'm fairly sure you still consider yourself a moderate, Brenski. But you are not - you are fast becoming an extremist. That's worrying, because I know for a fact that you're not stupid. Why are you no longer willing to even consider the possibility that people on the other side of the fence are well-intentioned and decent human beings who simply happen to disagree with you, sometimes to a greater and sometimes to a lesser extent?

brENsKi wrote: link

The Real Wizard wrote:

brENsKi wrote: link

No matter what is being discussed - infowars is not a valid source. It is a conspiracy website, full stop. Once in a blue moon it gets something right. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. Always seek another source.

Casper i honestly don't care what YOU do about this PM. I've had it with you and you mindful mindlessness. i can see that YOU'RE always going to claim to be better and suprior to everyone else. I'm not the only one you've had run-ins with - Pitrek doesn't visit much these days either, and I had a few months off last year to withdraw from your cr*p. anyhow, i've asked Barbara to delete my account (for the third time) - she says she can't (won't) but she closed Gerry's acct didn't she? As i said, had enough of your cr*p. so find someone else to talk down to - shame the site membership doesn't realise what an insignificant, hand-wringing odious dick you really are. perhaps people like being talked down to and insulted. - well now i'm insulting you. enjoy it. anyone can talk theory the way you do. some of us have real practical life experience to call on. on a lighter note - if Barb doesn't remove my account soon, i WILL resort to some imaginative profanity - all aimed at yourself - in order to get myself deleted - and the f*ck away from you and your inane sermons. they say "those that can, do. and those that can't, teach" - you'd make a great teacher....lol now shove your lectures, you unintelligent little smart-bollocks

The Real Wizard wrote:

brENsKi wrote: link

No matter what is being discussed - infowars is not a valid source. It is a conspiracy website, full stop. Once in a blue moon it gets something right. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. Always seek another source.

Panchgani wrote: Typical. Six posts in this topic automatically dismiss the tweets because they come from "Infowars", yet the QZ leftist extremists cannot bother commenting on the content of the tweets. Incidentally, I believe these two deaths (Minnesota and Louisiana) could have been avoided with better Police training. Both cops were rattled in fear for their lives as both victims had guns for self-protection. The Louisiana case seems worse to me in that it started with excessive force, and then the cop shot the victim in anger/frustration because the man did not play possum. It would be nice if the cops could express remorse and admit over-reaction/negligence, but the crappy US jackpot American legal system precludes any expression of honesty.

Panchgani wrote: Typical. Six posts in this topic automatically dismiss the tweets because they come from "Infowars", yet the QZ leftist extremists cannot bother commenting on the content of the tweets.

Panchgani wrote: It would be nice if the cops could express remorse and admit over-reaction/negligence, but the crappy US jackpot American legal system precludes any expression of honesty.

YourValentine wrote: However, I also saw a video of the black United States senator Scott who told his audience how he had been pulled over by the police in his car 7 times in a year, how police officers did not accept his pin that shows he is a US senator but asked his ID with "an attitude" and how many apologies he already received from superiors of police officers. There IS a racial issue in police and if you are black and if you live with the fear and the humiliation of everyday racism, you simply cannot be cool about it - you simply want to be accepted as an equal human being - finally. After all the police officers are paid with your tax money, as well and they are armed and a constant threat for you.

YourValentine wrote: We have to ask these questions to break the spirale of death, it has to be done with honesty. There must be an effort by the whole society looking into the issue with no prejudice and not trying to make a political gain out of it. It is vital to ask why people have come to stop talking to each other and only look at each other with a gun in their hands.

*goodco* wrote: And what causes bombings in Syria and Pakistan and Turkey and France and Belgium, mass shootings in Paris and Orlando and..... stabbings in Germany, etc.  Ignorance and hate and brainwashing and mental unbalance and social media and..........

The Real Wizard wrote: There are millions upon millions of people who will say "but the gub'mint gonna come take my gun." And there ends the dialogue, full stop. A friend of mine lost her brother to suicide, using the father's gun. The day after his son killed himself, the father asked the police - "where's my gun?" THAT right there is what's wrong with America. This idea that the second amendment of the constitution is of any value, never mind being somehow comparable to your own child's life. It is so deeply ingrained in the culture that any change to the laws would likely lead to a full-scale revolution. But the culture of fear is a thing. Even in the best cities, countless people walk their streets with guns with the feeling that the person walking past them might want to rob them or kill them. And for millions of people in poor communities, a gun is literally the only way to protect your family from the gangsters who live across the street. But my friend's dad wasn't one of them - he's a multi millionaire in Vegas. Yet he still feels he needs his gun too. One has to ask how the US managed to acquire this mentality to begin with. There are so many things that make the US different from every other developed country. They have the highest incarceration rate in the world. They have virtually no public sector, and thus no regulations on anything from health care to leasing an apartment. And the religious right is so strong that it has come close to eliminating science in some states. How did the US become so different? Few people know the answer to this question. But even answering it won't lead to anything changing. The fact that this is the same country with magnificent national parks, the country who is a world leader in science and technology - it really does baffle the mind. I love visiting it and exploring it, but I get to leave, and I'm always happy to come home to a place where I can walk down the streets at night without being afraid of anything.

The Real Wizard wrote: And the Bush administration. By medding in middle eastern affairs (without UN approval, no less), they created ISIS. Before 9/11 the enemy was a small group of guys in a cave called Al-Qaeda. Now it's a giant movement of people who are stationed all over the world, and they are angry because they feel their way of life is under threat. Had the US and its allies stayed out, things would not have escalated to this point. Being the world police does have its drawbacks, and we're seeing the results now.

The Real Wizard wrote:

And the Bush administration. By medding in middle eastern affairs (without UN approval, no less), they created ISIS.

Panchgani wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote:

And the Bush administration. By medding in middle eastern affairs (without UN approval, no less), they created ISIS.

......... The Anbar Awakening in 2007 had the Sunnis in Iraq rebelling successfully against Al Qaeda.  Isis was created on Obama's watch after he took office in 2008.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Panchgani wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote:

And the Bush administration. By medding in middle eastern affairs (without UN approval, no less), they created ISIS.

......... The Anbar Awakening in 2007 had the Sunnis in Iraq rebelling successfully against Al Qaeda.  Isis was created on Obama's watch after he took office in 2008.

Holy revisionist history. The formation of ISIS was a slow and steady progression over the last 15 years. Partisan rhetoric doesn't suddenly change that.

*goodco* wrote: As always, they left out one pretty significant fact: In 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory". The last U.S. troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011, in accordance with this agreement. US Forces, in the form of air support, resumed operations in Iraq in June 2014, to defend it against ISIL.